Productivity

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

That is why I think it is so appalling that the Chancellor could not be bothered to mention it in the Budget speech in March. It should be at the top of the agenda of all Treasury teams and all Departments—

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I will give way in a moment to the hon. Gentleman, who will, I know, have plenty to contribute on the subject.

Our economic prosperity depends on maximising the output from the efforts of working people and the resources available to business. The amount of output per hour worked is a useful way for us to measure whether our economy is advancing and adding value, or whether we are just treading water. Creating a more productive economy means creating a virtuous circle of higher growth, higher living standards and, as a consequence, more effective deficit reduction. When working people can produce more and they have the tools and the skills to create output more efficiently, employers can afford to pay them more, tax revenues become more buoyant and our GDP can grow in a more sustainable way.

[Chris Leslie]

I will give way to my hon. Friend after I have given way to the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier).

[Mark Garnier]

The shadow Chancellor is absolutely right: productivity is incredibly important. The Treasury Committee and The Economist have been banging on ad nauseam about it, certainly during my five years as a Member of Parliament. Why has he picked up on it only in the past six months?

Royal Bank of Scotland

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Harriett Baldwin]

What can I say? It is extraordinary. I do not suppose we heard that kind of rant when the former Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath was intervening in the banking sector. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman has not noticed that, in the single vote on legislation on Second Reading we have had in this Parliament, the Government won by a majority of 491. [Interruption.]

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

When the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) has finished, may I welcome the Minister to her place? She brings with her a great wealth of experience from the City. Part of that wealth of experience is a full knowledge of the sunk cost fallacy. Does she agree that it is completely ludicrous to say that an investment decision made in 2015 should be based solely on the information known in 2008, and that that view betrays a staggering lack of knowledge about the investment process among those opposed to selling the stake in RBS at potentially a loss?

[Harriett Baldwin]

I thank my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour for his question, which shows his depth of knowledge. He is right. In my years of managing portfolios, what I paid for investments in the first place was a fact, but managers also have to factor in the future. None of us has a crystal ball. My hon. Friend’s words are wisely taken.

The Economy

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

We have heard those arguments. I was asking the Government whether they plan to cut the top rate of tax of earnings of £150,000 from 45p, and perhaps down to 40p, and there is silence from the Government Benches and from the Chancellor. Perhaps he will come to that later in his speech.

The Queen’s Speech was high on rhetoric but was in reality the usual combination of diversion and distraction. As ever with this Chancellor, there is more than meets the eye. All the rhetoric is just the tip of a Tory iceberg, with 90% of their real agenda hidden below the surface, still invisible from public view. That agenda will not even be partly revealed until the emergency Budget on 8 July. Until then, serious questions remain unanswered about what drives the Government, and in what direction.

The trajectory of overall cuts set out in the March Budget goes beyond what is needed to eradicate the deficit by the end of the Parliament. According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the Queen’s Speech still leaves us totally in the dark about more than 85% of the Chancellor’s planned £12 billion of welfare cuts. Just this morning, the IFS criticised the Government for giving a

“misleading impression of what departmental spending in many areas will look like”.

Frankly, there is growing disbelief across the country that the Chancellor can protect those in greatest need while keeping his promises to the electorate on child benefit and disability benefits. My hon. Friends will not have failed to spot during Prime Minister’s Question Time yesterday how the Prime Minister, when challenged by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) on the question of disability benefits, digressed into all sorts of reminiscences about the campaign trail and how much fun it was going to various meetings. The Prime Minister promised that

“the most disabled should always be protected”

and I will be looking to the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to keep the Prime Minister’s promises. The Government might have secured a majority, but they did not secure a mandate for specific cuts to departments or services because those were never explained or set out before the election. Nor have we ever had an explanation of how they will pay for their multi-billion pound pledges on tax and services or, crucially, for the NHS.

The Opposition agree with yesterday’s OECD assessment that a fair approach is the right one to take—sensible savings and protection for those on middle and lower incomes. Cuts that decimate public services would be too big a price to pay, especially as they may even result in higher costs in the longer term. We also heard how 8,000 nurse training places were cut in 2010. The use of agency nurses then proliferated to fill the gap. Is it any wonder, therefore, that NHS trusts now face a deficit of about £2 billion? Part of the reason the deficit is so big is that productivity has been so poor. Britain has the second lowest productivity in the G7, and output per worker is still lower than in 2010. This should have been at the top of the Chancellor’s agenda throughout the last Parliament, but he did not even mention it in his last Budget speech. For the Tories, it seems that productivity just springs magically if the Government just get out of the way, unrelated to any fiscal or policy choices that they make.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

The shadow Chancellor will know that many pundits have been looking at that productivity puzzle. The Treasury Committee has examined it for the past five years. If the Governor of the Bank of England, economists and everyone else does not understand that productivity conundrum, will he share with us where he thinks the lack of productivity comes from?

[Chris Leslie]

I will come to that in a moment. The hon. Gentleman must also be staggered that the Chancellor did not even mention it in his Budget speech. That was an omission that the Chancellor needs to correct. We take a different view of where productivity comes from because, for us, it depends in part on having decent infrastructure and public services—motorways that flow freely and trains that commuters can actually get on, tax offices answering business queries efficiently rather than keeping companies’ staff waiting on hold, employees who are off sick able to get treated swiftly in a decent NHS, an education system that supports a work force and provides training in high-quality skills. Each of these is crucial for our future economic productivity, and each depends on the Chancellor making the right fiscal choices for this Parliament.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Osborne]

I think I have dealt with the hon. Gentleman’s point.

[Mark Garnier]

The subject of debt is incredibly important, but debt is not just national; there is household debt as well. Does the Chancellor agree that the £1 trillion rise in household debt between 1997 and 2008, taking it up to £1.47 trillion, was one of the most pernicious acts of the Labour Government? It damaged households immeasurably and is the biggest crisis that we have to deal with.

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There was no institution looking at overall debt levels in our country.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Wednesday 25th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a great pleasure and privilege to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton (Mr Love), who has been a distinguished Member of the House, particularly through his service on the Treasury Committee, which has added enormous insights into the deliberations of successive Governments. It is a great joy to follow my good friend and colleague.

I just want to make a few remarks. The budgetary process in the immediate run-up to the election has been very much a political stunt. The first thing to deal with is the illusion—or delusion—that there has been economic success and turnaround under the Conservatives. That is simply not the case; it is simply not borne out by the facts. The national debt is about £1.4 trillion—up 44%. Reference is made to the deficit and how much the debt is going up, but of course the current Government have borrowed more in five years than Labour did in 13 years—and we had to bail out the banks. The Government have lost the triple A rating. As I pointed out earlier, the number of people earning more than £20,000 is down by 800,000. There is a reliance on a fudging of the facts; this is a “fudge it” Budget, to make up for the fact that we have more and more low-paid people who cannot make a contribution towards the revenues in a sustainable way. Meanwhile, the Government continuously put up the tax threshold and say, “Who’s going to disagree with that?”, knowing everyone is scared to disagree. But that is the management of irresponsibility, because the money simply is not coming in to pay the bills.

So what we need is not a spat about tax and spend, but a serious consideration of how we generate productivity and growth, in order to have higher wages and a more sustainable plan for the future. Obviously, part of that was the debate about tuition fees and about enabling people to go, without fear, to university, so that we could get higher productivity and the students would not be hobbled by massive debt throughout their lives. Such debt can mean that they cannot get a credit rating and cannot get a house, and are scared of moving into a higher pay bracket because it pushes up their repayments.

Sadly, the Tories are creating a two-nation Britain. One nation will be the better off, who, lucky for them, own their own house, can get their sons and daughters into university and pass on money for them to put down a deposit on a property. There are others who may be equally or even more capable of going to university and of boosting the productivity in our collective economy but who are being stopped from getting houses in the future. We are at a turning point now. The party that gets elected will determine whether we have a more unequal or a less unequal future. I very much want us all to pull together as one nation to invest in the future.

The Conservatives have this massively political Budget profile, which has been described as a “rollercoaster”. Deep and savage cuts were going to take us back to the 1930s, but because that was pointed out by the BBC, the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Institute for Fiscal Studies, an adjustment was made. Bank shares were sold off and oil prices went down so that the public service time machine was moved back only to the year 2000. None the less, we all saw the Tories in their true oils. They were happy to make those savage cuts until the BBC highlighted what they were doing. Then they said, “Oh no, we’re not going to do that.” But there will still be savage cuts until the final year of the next Parliament, 2019-2020, when there will be a sudden acceleration in public spending—the biggest spending increase for 10 years—presumably to try to get Boris Johnson elected as the next Tory Prime Minister. That is probably what will happen in the unfortunate event of the Tories getting in again in some strange alliance with the UK Independence party, which would be a disaster for Britain.

We must strike a balance between trying to achieve economic growth and having to balance the books, instead of scrabbling around trying to decide which poor people to clobber. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton pointed out, welfare cuts such as the bedroom tax raised only £400 million, which is small change compared with the numbers that we are talking about. Two thirds of the people hit by that tax are disabled. The cuts to tax credits are hitting people with children who are trying to work. It is ridiculous to try to squeeze more and more out of the poorest to make ends meet. Clearly, it is right that the richest pay more, whether those with more than £2 million pay the mansion tax—

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

They do pay more.

[Geraint Davies]

They need to pay lots more, not a bit more. Of course some of the very rich are paying more, but that is because they are getting richer and richer on massive pay awards. They are earning so much more than anyone else, and the situation is getting out of control

Future Government Spending

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

That was a good try, but the hon. Gentleman knows very well that we do not have unfunded spending commitments. Our manifesto will be fully costed and fully funded. He does not need to take my word for it: we would be more than happy to let the OBR audit all of the proposals in our manifesto and to undertake to validate that they are, indeed, fully costed. I wonder if any Government Members would like to support the idea that all the political parties should have their manifestos fully costed by the OBR. Can I see a show of hands?

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

There is one individual: the hon. Gentleman is an independent champion on Treasury matters. I wonder whether he would like to at least say that there is a strong case for letting the OBR cut through this political nonsense and make sure that we have proper independent validation of spending commitments. Does he agree with that?

[Mark Garnier]

I do—absolutely. In the early part of this Parliament the Treasury Committee looked at exactly that point and there was a big and heated debate about it. Conservative members were in favour of it, but Labour members were not, and they were led by the shadow Business Secretary, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), who was dead against it. What does the shadow Minister have to say about that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The problem with the 50p policy is that it is not an effective way to raise revenue. Our record is very clear: we have been very effective at getting more money out of the wealthy. As we see from the IFS analysis today, the wealthiest have made the biggest contribution. What we are left with is a symbolic gesture, not a tax policy.

[Mark Garnier]

Does my hon. Friend not agree that it is quite remarkable that the Labour party has not yet come out categorically and refused to raise taxes through a jobs tax? Is it not worth remembering while we are debating a possible jobs tax—or not, depending on what they want to do—that there has never been a Labour Government who have not failed to increase unemployment?

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is right that we highlight that point. They do not like our spending plans, but what are they going to do? Are they willing to borrow more? Are they willing to tax more? It must be one or the other or both. Which is it to be: a borrowing bombshell or a tax bombshell?

--- Later in debate ---

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

It has been a pleasure to speak twice this week under your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker. If this is to be my last speech in this Parliament with you in the Chair, may I say that I have had an absolutely great time under your guidance as Deputy Speaker? However, I do hope to come back, and to see you there again and we could have another life of five years together.

Today’s issue is a serious one, but I would like this speech to be in the right vein; it should deal with what this means to those watching our debate today. We are bandying figures about all over the place, but what do they actually mean to people? I can talk only about my experiences over the past five years. I was a newly elected MP and we were going through the Lobby making decisions that we knew were going to affect people’s lives. But we had to take these decisions to get the country on the right track. Over my five years as a first-term MP—after the election I hope to be in a second term, but I do not count my chickens—I have wanted to see what has happened in my community. The first thing I remember talking about was a road in my community. I am glad to say that that road, which took 70 years to build, came to fruition with my guidance and under the coalition Government. Costing £123 million, the road will join up the M6 with the port at Heysham and will increase the prosperity in the area tenfold. For every £1 spent on the road, £10 will be put back into the local economy.

We are considering building a new power station. My constituency already has two nuclear power stations, which account for 2,000 jobs in the area. Thankfully, again under this coalition Government, we have a footprint for a third nuclear power station, which will be completed in the next five to 10 years, creating a further 2,000 new jobs.

Let me turn now to schools. Without wanting to be overtly political, schools that were closed down under the previous Government have reopened under the coalition. In my constituency, a school was closed down and has now reopened. Sadly, another school, Skerton, has closed, but I am fighting to get it reopened as a free school. We can find the money to carry out all this work at a time when austerity is at its worst.

Sea wall defences have been built in my constituency, at a cost of more than £10 million. A mandate went out just before the last general election in which five out of the 10 categories of coastal protection were wiped away. Thankfully, we have put two of them back, and we have saved an area off Sunderland Point.

[Mark Garnier]

My hon. Friend has talked a great deal about how much money the Government have put into his area. Does he also not recognise that private sector investment, such as the £140 million of private sector investment that will be put into the Wyre Forest in the future—

Bankers’ Bonuses and the Banking Industry

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Cathy Jamieson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving some clarity. He is absolutely right that regulation is part of the process, but we also need a culture change and an attitudinal change. He is correct to identify the lack of prosecutions. Although that is not mentioned specifically in the motion, I recommend that he reads Labour’s document, which takes account of that point. Our agenda is not entirely punitive, because it is driven by economic imperatives. We all know that the performance of the banking sector is vital to the health of Britain’s economy. It employs more than 1 million people, each of whom has an important role to play in advising businesses and consumers, and helping them to manage their money, invest wisely and plan for the future. Without the banks, consumers would be unable to save and borrow. Businesses would not have access to the patient finance that they need if they are to grow and to create high-quality, well-paid jobs.

Too often in recent years, many banks have fallen short of the very high standards that we expect of them; that is a view shared across the House. In many instances, they have not acted with trust and they have not acted fairly. At times, they have acted recklessly and unethically. Instead of helping their customers, they have exploited them.

Banks and their employees operate in a high-skilled environment, dealing with sophisticated financial instruments that are often beyond the ken of the average consumer and small business owner. Rather than using that knowledge to guide and advise consumers, they have, in some instances, abused that knowledge to exploit them. In investment, consumer and business banking, banks have betrayed the trust of customers and undermined the integrity of the industry. In doing so, they have totted up some truly colossal sums in fines.

Indeed, 2014 was a record year for fines in the City of London, culminating in the £1.1 billion fine levied by the Financial Conduct Authority on five banks, including HSBC and the Royal Bank of Scotland, for their part in the forex fixing scandal. In recent times, four UK banks—Barclays, HSBC, RBS and Lloyds—have also paid £1.5 billion in compensation for mis-selling interest rate hedging products. Other recent scandals include LIBOR fixing and the mis-selling of payment protection insurance.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way; she is making an intelligent speech. With regard to the recent fines, is it not fair to say that in the vast majority of cases the actions that led to those fines were perpetrated under the old regulator, the Financial Services Authority, and that the bringing to justice, meaning the fining, has been done under the new regulatory regime? Does that not reinforce how bad the old system was and how good the new one is?

[Cathy Jamieson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for what I think was a bit of a compliment about me making an intelligent speech. Of course, he then proceeded to make a party political point by trying to shift the emphasis back on to what happened before, and I understand why he would seek to do so. It is important to acknowledge that there have been changes, but there is no evidence yet to suggest that all the behaviours that led to wrong decisions being taken have changed, so we still need to keep an eye on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Cathy Jamieson]

My hon. Friend makes a useful point. I am confident that he has read the paper we published on that, which highlights the need to ensure that finance gets to small and medium-sized enterprises, in particular, and the important role that a proper British investment bank can play.

Earlier this month we saw a new and startling example of impropriety, with the allegations that HSBC’s Swiss subsidiary actively advised customers on how to avoid, and indeed evade, tax. I want to emphasis again that all those activities are symptoms of a wider culture that has seeped from investment to retail banking. That culture has been characterised by short-termism and the pursuit of profit at the expense of all else—in many cases, at the expense of the banks’ own customers and the wider economy. That culture led to banks exploiting their consumers and ripping off the taxpayer.

That culture has also caused banks to lose sight of what should be their core function. The role of our high street banks is, or should be, twofold: they must serve the needs of consumers, providing basic borrowing and saving facilities and loans for mortgages to buy homes; and they must provide finance to businesses, as my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) suggested, enabling them to start up, grow and create well-paid and secure jobs. However, lending to business has fallen by over £55 billion since 2010, despite an array of Government schemes, such as Project Merlin and the funding for lending scheme, all of which have to varying degrees failed to deliver. Despite that, however, and despite all the scandals, the banks have continued to pay lavish bonuses to a small cohort of senior employees.

[Mark Garnier]

The hon. Lady is being very generous in giving way. She says that business lending is not quite what it was in the old days, but is it not fair to say that business lending in the old days was incredibly irrational and irresponsible, and that that led to the financial crisis that brought the banks down? We want the banks to lend, but we do not want them to lend irresponsibly and create another crisis.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I do not think that anyone is suggesting that we want irresponsible lending. We want those businesses that are valuable, sustainable and want to grow—I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has heard from them in his constituency, as I have in mine—to be able to access finance. That is the important point.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I was planning to say something about the cap later, but my hon. Friend has made her point with words that I would have difficulty bettering.

Let me return to banks paying lavish bonuses. The public are understandably still questioning why, with wage stagnation and the cost of living crisis that they are all facing, senior bankers have continued to reward themselves in that way. Let us look at the figures. Last year, bonuses at Barclays were up 10% to £2.4 billion and those at Lloyds were up 8% to £395 million. The Royal Bank of Scotland, 79% of which is owned by the taxpayer, announced a bonus pool of £577 million. Some may say that that is all well and good, because it is just senior bankers enjoying the hard-earned fruits of their labour, but that is more difficult to justify in the light of recent scandals and given that two of the UK’s four largest banks—Barclays and RBS—have experienced drastic falls in profits. Earlier this week, with impeccable timing, of course, HSBC announced its bonus pool for the year, awarding its chief executive, Stuart Gulliver, £7.6 million—I repeat, £7.6 million—and paying 330 of its top employees in excess of €1 million, despite the revelations of recent weeks and a 17% fall in profits.

It would be remiss of me not to refer to the role that the Government have played in all this. As well as the failure of their schemes to galvanise lending, they have failed—this point was made my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish—to implement all the reforms recommended by the Independent Commission on Banking and the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards. They ignored Labour’s pleas for action to regulate benchmarks when the LIBOR scandal first came to light, and they have actively aided and abetted bankers’ efforts to safeguard their bonuses. As my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) pointed out, the Chancellor launched an ill-fated and misguided legal challenge to the EU bonus cap, which limits bonuses to 100% of fixed pay or 200% with shareholder approval, which still seems fairly generous.

[Mark Garnier]

What troubles me about a lot of what the hon. Lady is saying is that she is confusing how much bankers have been paid with how one goes about paying them. While many of us would agree that having pay packages of millions of pounds is an issue in itself, it is not to do with bonuses. She will probably propose in due course that bonuses should be clawed back over a period of 10 years, which I recommended as a member of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards, so I agree with her entirely about that. However, capping bonuses reduces the amount of money that can be clawed back. In fact, if one pays a banker £1, 90p should be paid as a bonus, because then there will be more to claw back and therefore more sway over that banker to encourage them to behave better.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I know that he made those points during the work that he did. I am glad to hear that he agrees with us on some of this, and I will deal with a number of his points later.

We still have to look at the actions of this Government in taking on the legal challenge to the EU bonus cap, however. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman does not suggest for a moment that that was a sensible thing to do. I do not think that the public saw it in that way—

[Mark Garnier]

rose—

[Charlie Elphicke]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Cathy Jamieson]

I am not going to give way because I am making important and serious points about the future of our young people. I have been very generous in giving way and I want to finish this point. Our bank bonus tax not only will offer a lifeline for thousands of young people, helping them to earn, learn, and get a foot on the career ladder, but will help the economy and mean that the banks give something back to society.

In addition to that and our wider programme of reform, we will extend the deferral and clawback period for bonuses, ensuring that rewards are paid out proportionately and can be recouped when evidence of reckless or inappropriate behaviour is revealed further down the line. As I said, the financial crisis and recent scandals have shown that risky decisions can take up to a decade to have an impact. The next Labour Government will therefore ensure that if bankers have been shown to have acted inappropriately or made reckless decisions, banks will be able to claw back any bonuses awarded. We will act on the recommendations of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards by extending the period for the clawback of bank bonuses that have already been paid to at least 10 years. We will also extend deferral periods for senior managers to at least 10 years, which will help to deter the rash and short-sighted behaviour that we have seen in the past, and to encourage banks and their employers to have a view of the long term.

[Mark Garnier]

rose—

[Cathy Jamieson]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman once more, given his role on the Parliamentary Commission.

[Mark Garnier]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady; she really is being incredibly generous. Capping bonuses and targeting the bonus with a tax in itself will inevitably drive banks’ behaviour towards the perverse outcomes that none of us in the Chamber wants. If we tax bonuses, the banks will change them into something else. They cannot wriggle out of a balance sheet tax, which this Government have imposed, but they will be able to wriggle out of a bonus tax, and we cannot avoid that.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I believe that the hon. Gentleman is trying to be helpful by making points that I know have been made before, but I refer him to the previous occasion on which a bankers bonus tax was implemented, when a number of anti-avoidance measures were put in place to deal with such a problem. We do not want any unintended consequences.

I am trying to signal our intent. When we are in government, we intend to make the tax work to change the culture and practice in banking, as well as to ensure that we help our young people. I am sure that any folks listening to my speech who are thinking about devising ways of not paying up or not making a fair contribution will hear the intent in what I am saying and therefore not pursue such a course.

I remind hon. Members who have not already read our “Plan for Banking Reform”, which was published last week, that it sets out a series of wide-ranging reforms to the banking sector. It builds on much of the work done by the commissions and is informed by speaking to people in the industry. It focuses on the four key areas of stability, competition, access to finance, and culture and pay. The one-off tax on bankers bonuses is just one part of the reform process, but it is an important part.

Last week, I hosted a jobs fair in my constituency, as have many hon. Members on both sides of the House. I saw at first hand how much the young unemployed people who came along want to work and to contribute to society. I met people who have been out of work over a fairly lengthy period and are desperate for the opportunity to get back into employment and to contribute to society. They want decent jobs with decent pay; they do not want the instability of being on zero-hours contracts or of working for umbrella companies that are more interested in avoiding paying their taxes than in paying their way in society. We need to ensure that such young people and the long-term unemployed—not just in my constituency, but right across the UK—get the help that they need. These young people need to make the first step on to the careers ladder, and the long-term unemployed need help to get back into real jobs. It is absolutely vital that such support is given to not only our young people, but the long-term unemployed, who are almost at risk of being frozen out of the jobs market.

As I said, Labour’s programme of banking reform is driven by economic imperatives. The motion sets out that banks should make a social contribution as well as an economic one, and that the bonuses they pay should be a reward for exceptional performance, not a compensation for failure. I believe that those are vital steps along the road to restoring fairness, stability and trust to the sector so that banks serve the needs of the wider economy. I hope that the Government see fit on this occasion to support our motion.

Tax Avoidance (HSBC)

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

He nods his head, but the information was provided in April 2010, when there was a Labour Government and he was in the Cabinet. He has nothing to say either about the agreement with the French authorities restricting the use that could be made of this information—an agreement that we are now busily trying to change.

None of these things has the shadow Chancellor admitted to or apologised for, and none of it is of any surprise to Government Members, because the Labour party was the friend of the tax avoiders and the tax evaders when it was in office. When we entered office, City bankers were paying lower tax rates than those who cleaned for them; foreigners were not paying capital gains tax; hedge funds were abusing partnership rules; and the richest in our society routinely did not pay stamp duty at all. We have put at end to all of that, and we will take more action in the Budget. All we have on the Opposition Benches is a bunch of arsonists throwing rocks at the firefighters who are putting out the fire that they started.

The shadow Chancellor comes to the House fighting for his political life. He asks about tax evasion, but he was the principal tax adviser when tax evasion occurred. His economic policy is in tatters, and he cannot name a single business supporter of his business policy. His tax avoidance campaign has turned into a war with his own window cleaner. Now he has lost the confidence of his colleagues and his leader, but he lost the confidence of the country a long time ago.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

Will the Chancellor confirm that British taxpayers will receive more money back from tax evaders as a result of civil actions than they would through criminal actions?

[Mr Osborne]

When we can pursue criminal prosecutions, of course we do so, but that is a matter for the independent prosecuting authorities. Frankly, the suggestion from some on the Labour Benches that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should direct the prosecutions of our independent prosecuting authorities shows how far they have gone from the constitutional principles of government. We set the overall resourcing for HMRC and pass the tax laws, but we have independent prosecuting authorities. The shadow Chancellor goes on about the policy, but the policy was set out by the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath in 2002 and repeated in 2005.

Tax Avoidance

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House notes with concern that following the revelations of malpractice at HSBC bank, which were first given to the Government in May 2010, just one out of 1,100 people who have avoided or evaded tax have been prosecuted; calls upon Lord Green and the Prime Minister to make a full statement about Lord Green’s role at HSBC and his appointment as a Minister; regrets the failure of the Government’s deal on tax disclosure with Switzerland, which has raised less than a third of the amount promised by Ministers; welcomes the proposals of charities and campaigning organisations for an anti-tax dodging Bill; and further calls on the Government to clamp down on tax avoidance by introducing a penalty regime for the general anti-abuse rule, which is currently too weak to be effective, closing the Quoted Eurobonds exemption loophole, ensuring that hedge funds trading shares pay the same amount of tax as other investors, introducing deeming criteria to restrict false self-employment in the construction industry, and scrapping the shares for rights scheme, which the Office for Budget Responsibility has warned could cost £1 billion in avoidance.

When citizens hand over their hard-earned cash to the Government in the form of taxation, they do so on the basis that at some level they have faith in our system of democratic governance—a system in which the Government are entrusted to make decisions about how to use that money in the best interests of all their people, and to keep them safe. The collection of tax is a core responsibility, and trust underpins the whole structure—trust that if I pay my fair share, so will my neighbour, and trust that the rules are applied as vigorously to the sole trader as to the huge multinational, and as fairly to the basic rate taxpayer as to those in the higher band. However, that foundation has been profoundly shaken.

The global crisis, austerity and a series of media disclosures about the low tax bills and complex avoidance schemes of multinationals and high net worth individuals have led members of the public to question like never before whether, when they pay their tax, their neighbour is doing the same. This week’s revelation that an arm of a leading high street bank, HSBC, helped clients to evade and avoid tax using Swiss bank accounts has simply added fuel to an already roaring fire. It seems that the Government have neither the will nor the ability to get a grip on the situation, which is fast spiralling out of control.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is quite right that the news is coming out this week, but is it not fair to say that the crime, if you like, happened in 2007 during the lead-up to the financial crisis? This is old news being brought out today, not new news.

[Shabana Mahmood]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He and I have had a number of discussions on the airwaves about these issues, given that the Government have failed to field any Ministers to debate on those media channels. He has been doing a grand job of trying to defend the indefensible, but he is quite wrong. The central point in what we have discovered about HSBC this week is that the data with evidence of what had happened with tax avoidance and tax evasion were handed over by the French authorities to this Government in May 2010. That is the central point: that is the point at which we had evidence of wrongdoing that needed to be acted on, but that is not what happened.

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[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

HSBC had a lot of customers in Switzerland with secret bank accounts, and it helped them and conspired with them to break British law. Even if HMRC does not want to do anything about it, it seems to me that this was obtaining financial advantage by deception, which is a general crime, not something that needs to be prosecuted by HMRC.

Why are the names of these self-confessed tax swindlers kept secret? The names of small businesses that get into trouble with HMRC—it is worth bearing in mind the fact that that organisation puts more companies in this country out of business than any other—are not kept secret, even if all that happened was that they could not keep up their tax payments: they have not been doing any fiddling or swindling, or breaking the law.

I want to move on to the much wider question of whether the HSBC subsidiary in Switzerland was the only offender. HSBC has 556 subsidiary companies located in tax havens. Why are they there? It might be because of the weather in some tax havens, but not in all of them. Was the Swiss racket a one-off? No answer. Barclays has 390 subsidiaries in tax havens and RBS has 406, while Lloyds, to be fair, has rather fewer with just 297.

[Mark Garnier]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Frank Dobson]

No I will not, because other Members want to speak.

Between them, the big four banks have 1,649 subsidiaries located in tax havens. So far, we know about the wrongdoing of only one of them. When will the Government start to find out what the other 1,648 have been up to, and probably still are up to, in tax havens abroad? We know that all four big banks will have been involved in money laundering, sanctions busting, fiddling foreign exchanges and fiddling LIBOR, and some of that is facilitated by having subsidiaries in tax havens. Basically, subsidiaries in tax havens exist to help people and companies avoid paying tax. There is no other good reason for being located in a tax haven other than to save tax.

The fact is that nothing is being done. Many small businesses find it difficult to meet their tax obligations in this country. Firms in Norwich, Carlisle, Worcester or Gloucester that find it difficult to do so will be hounded by the Inland Revenue, but these big companies and big individual tax swindlers in tax havens will not. It is about time that there was a thoroughgoing inquiry into the whole thing.

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[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales). Much of what he said, apart from the last sentence, was very sensible.

I am pleased to be called in this debate but disappointed that the debate is necessary. The recent revelations about what has been going on at HSBC are shocking. They are shocking because of the scale of the problem and because of the apparent lack of shame. Even according to the Government’s own figures, the tax gap, which shows the amount of tax avoidance, has gone up from £30 billion to £34 billion in this Parliament.

For two weeks in a row, the Prime Minister has been avoiding—some might say evading—questions about this tax problem. Last week he refused to say why he would not increase tax for hedge funds, and the very next day the Financial Times revealed that the number of big City donors to the Tories has doubled, and that they now account for a third of the Tory party’s income. Today he refused to explain about HSBC and what happened with Stephen Green. In Newcastle there are buses going around asking, “Do you know a benefit cheat?” One wonders whether there were chauffeur-driven cars at the black and white ball saying, “Do you know a tax cheat?” They might have found a few people.

We must take the international dimension seriously. Between 2006 and 2011, Google’s turnover in this country was estimated at £18 billion but it paid only £16 million of tax.

[Mark Garnier]

I hate to interrupt the hon. Lady, but does she realise that tax is paid on profit and not turnover?

[Helen Goodman]

I will come to that point.

Facebook’s turnover was £200 million, and its tax payment £0.25 million—[Interruption.] Will the hon. Gentleman just wait? What is going on at the moment? One big thing is the division by multilateral companies of different subsidiaries, and a key aspect is the payment of branding through trade marks and licences registered in low-tax domains. We all understand that marketing and advertising are legitimate business interests, and it is completely reasonable to set them against revenues in order to determine profits and decide the tax liability. That, however, is not what is going on, because brands and trade marks are registered in low-tax domains, and licences and royalties are then paid into those low-tax domains to shift money around.

[Mark Garnier]

indicated assent.

[Helen Goodman]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman is now nodding his agreement.

That is a way of moving money from high-tax jurisdictions to low-tax jurisdictions. Now, of course, these prices are not contested; they are not the result of supply and demand, but are administered just as much as prices in the Soviet Union were administered. Sometimes they are administered at suspiciously high levels, and as far as one can tell that device has been used by Starbucks and Facebook, which is why there is a big discrepancy.

I also want to call in aid our noble Friend Lord Mandelson, who said that we must deal with this issue at an international level. At the moment we have constant competition to see who can cut corporation tax the most, and an arbitraging day-ahead market that is undermining everybody’s tax base—we have seen that with the Irish Republic, and now new freedoms must be given to Northern Ireland. The situation is simply not sustainable, but agreeing international changes to the rules of the game takes time. We in this country must take more urgent, unilateral action, and I hope we can consider the way that trade marks, royalties and licences are being abused.

These arrangements are complex, and to tackle them we need Ministers with determination, the right legal framework, and enough experienced HMRC officials. It is disappointing that Ministers have reduced the number of experienced officials in HMRC who have the expertise to follow up such matters. The Minister kept saying that he has a good record of which he is confident, but the Financial Times says that the amount of tax that will be brought to the British Exchequer from measures taken by the previous Government is 10 times the amount that he will bring in. The truth is that this Government are defending the tax loopholes. We want to address them in order to abolish the bedroom tax, which is paid by the most vulnerable and by disabled people in this country. The Government are defending the hedge funds and the City loopholes because they want the money for the Tory coffers for their attempt to buy the next general election.

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[Charlie Elphicke]

That is indeed a huge change. The Government have also supported entrepreneurs with entrepreneurs’ relief, which I greatly welcome.

Under this Government, the tax gap for 2012-13 is lower as a percentage of tax receipts than in any year under the previous Labour Government. Tax yield for HMRC has gone up by £7 billion since 2010-11. The Government have been very effective at dealing with the tax gap and bringing in receipts. The corporation tax gap for large businesses in 2009-10 was £2 billion, whereas in 2012-13 it was lower, at £1.8 billion. We see a lot of revisionism from Labour, but when it came to getting money through the door they had an atrocious record. The Conservative party and this Government have had an effective record. Why? We understand that to up the take one must cut the rate. That is what the Government have done with corporation tax, with massive success.

Let me draw attention to another problem with the Labour party: its proposals are completely and utterly muddled. Labour talks about UK overseas territories that do not have a public central register for offshore companies being on some sort of OECD blacklist. The only problem is that countries such as America, Luxembourg, Ireland and the Netherlands and a whole stream of other countries do not do that. The chances of getting the OECD nations that do not do that to agree to blacklist a whole lot of other nations that do not do it are minimal, and that shows the absurdity of the Labour position.

[Mark Garnier]

A further absurdity of the Labour position is the comments that have been made about tax havens. In the talk about subsidiaries in so-called tax havens, how we define a tax haven was not mentioned. It is a relative thing. Many people look to the UK as a tax haven, yet there are plenty of banks in the UK that nobody would suggest closing down.

[Charlie Elphicke]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. If I wanted to avoid tax on an industrial scale, I would not use the Channel Islands. I would use the European Union: I would use Luxembourg, Ireland and the Netherlands—and, goodness me, that is exactly what happens. Why? Because European Union tax rules are structured to enable that to happen. Labour did nothing in their years in power to deal with the massive problems of the European Union and the nature of the parent-subsidiary directive. They should be ashamed of themselves. Nor did they do anything to deal with the problems of international tax avoidance. Companies such as Starbucks, Amazon, Google and Apple—the list goes on—pay hardly any tax in this country because the tax rules were set up in the 19th century and are not fit for purpose.

In the past decade, the previous Government did nothing at all on this. They were utterly asleep at the wheel. They were in denial. They were too busy snuggling up to businesses to hold them to account. They did not make the case for reform of the international tax rules. What have this Government done? They have made the case internationally to the OECD. This Chancellor and this Prime Minister have said that the rules for branch and tax presence are out of date and need to be updated. The rules on transfer pricing and many other international tax rules are out of date and not fit for purpose in the internet age. They need to be updated. It is this Government who have made the running, not just here at home but internationally. It is this Government who have introduced the diverted profit tax and are seeking to deal with this enormous problem.

As for Labour’s other ideas, they are hopelessly muddled. Who was it who brought in the stamp duty reserve tax on share transfers? My recollection is that it was the previous Labour Government. Now they are saying it is all a terrible mistake. What about the issue of the stamp duty reserve tax and schedule 19? They say it is a relief for hedge funds, but they do not understand that a hedge fund could not actually use this relief. This is another Labour pension tax. We in this House know about Labour’s pension taxes, their attack on thrift, on savings, on the savings culture, and the undermining of anyone who wants to take personal responsibility. This proposal is another attempt at a pensions tax. Again, we see Labour coming to this House with an Opposition day debate, claiming to be concerned about tax avoidance when their record in government suggests the complete opposite. The record of this Government suggests a very strong approach. Labour’s policies and proposals are completely and utterly muddled.

This Government have a strong record that I am proud of. I am proud of what we have done. I am proud of the fact that we have ensured that those who have been gaming the system are increasingly being brought to book. I am ashamed of what the previous Government did and ashamed of the Opposition coming to the House and talking the way they do, when they had such a shocking and disgraceful record in office.

Tax Avoidance (HSBC)

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Monday 9th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman’s numbers are wrong. The biggest department in HMRC deals with enforcement and compliance. He may be referring specifically to the affluent unit or the high net worth unit, both of which are raising substantially more money now than under the previous Government. Again and again, the reality is that HMRC is now more successful in raising money from the wealthy and anyone else who tries to avoid their taxes.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards spent the thick end of 18 months looking into the activities and standards of banks, as well as the abject failure of regulation under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. Does my hon. Friend agree that had the system in its report, which resulted in the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act 2013, been in place, this would not have happened in the first place?

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. One element of this is that we have to look at the regulation of banks, and there were clearly weaknesses in the system that we inherited. Just as we have addressed weaknesses in the way that tax was collected, we have addressed weaknesses in the way that banks were regulated.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Garnier Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andrea Leadsom]

No. The amount spent was £43,000. The Government believe fundamentally that we need to have the toughest regime in the world of any global financial centre on pay, and that is what we have. We have ensured that bankers will be remunerated in future on performance and that pay can be clawed back. We have put in place a system that is far better and far more accountable than anything that the previous Government attempted.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

In the light of all the hard work by the Government to ensure that bonuses are held back by banks to secure better behaviour by staff and greater stability for banks, is not the bonus cap a crude measure that will increase bank instability and bad behaviour by bankers?

[Andrea Leadsom]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. The Government wanted to challenge that cap because it would push up fixed pay, which means bankers being paid not for performing but for simply turning up and raises prudential risks associated with higher fixed costs. It was vital to the interests of this important sector to the UK that we introduced a better regime, and I am delighted that the Chancellor has written to the Governor of the Bank of England in his role on the Financial Stability Board to ask him to look at other ways of ensuring accountability.