Oral Answers to Questions

Lucy Rigby Excerpts

Thursday 6th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor General (Lucy Rigby)]

I would like to start by congratulating US Attorney General Pam Bondi on her confirmation yesterday. The Attorney General and I look forward to working closely with her on our long list of shared priorities.

CPS prosecutors perform vital work to serve the public and deliver justice for victims. We have taken steps to strengthen the CPS workforce, including by boosting staff numbers in specialist rape and serious sexual assault units, as well as by being tough on crime, supporting victims and restoring confidence in the criminal justice system. All these things are part of this Government’s mission to make our streets safe, and the CPS has a key role to play in that mission.

[Douglas McAllister]

Will the Solicitor General join me in welcoming this Government’s increased funding of the Crown Prosecution Service for specialist sexual offence prosecution units? Does she agree that we must continue to tackle violence against women and girls across our nation, and will she join me in paying tribute to the dedication of our prosecutors and police on the front line who are confronting these crimes?

[The Solicitor General]

Absolutely; I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to police and prosecutors not only in his constituency, but right across the United Kingdom. He is right to welcome the increased funding that we have secured for the CPS. Our recently agreed settlement will ensure that the CPS can recruit more specialist prosecutors, delivering that vital work and putting those who commit these abhorrent crimes behind bars.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Given the backlog in Crown court appearances, and the increasing tide of knife crime as well as criminal activity against women and girls, what steps are the Department taking to ensure that the Crown Prosecution Service is adequately provided for so that justice is seen to be done in the wider community?

[The Solicitor General]

The hon. Member makes an important point; this Government are working very hard to do that. The settlement for the CPS that I referred to was an extra £49 million, and it is spending some of that on increasing the number of prosecutors who are able to do the important work to which he refers.

[Maya Ellis (Ribble Valley) (Lab)]

2. What steps she is taking to help increase prosecution rates for cases involving violence against women and girls.

[Leigh Ingham (Stafford) (Lab)]

11. What steps she is taking to help increase prosecution rates for cases involving violence against women and girls.

[The Solicitor General]

The scale of violence against women and girls in this country is intolerable, and the Government are treating it as the national emergency that it is. The CPS has begun securing convictions of offenders who breach domestic abuse protection orders—a scheme that the Government introduced in November 2024 in order better to protect victims of domestic abuse. Although there is much more to be done, that is just one example of the clear action that the Government are taking to meet our mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade.

[Maya Ellis]

The national conviction rate for domestic abuse cases is woefully low, standing at 4.5%, but the picture is even worse in rural constituencies such as Ribble Valley, where the overall conviction rate is only 3%. What does the Solicitor General regard as the unique challenges in rural areas, and what steps is she taking to tackle them specifically?

[The Solicitor General]

My hon. Friend raises an important issue. She is right to highlight the unique risks faced by women in rural areas, including her constituency; increased isolation can bring with it more risk. To tackle violence against women we need to address the overall number of prosecutions, which unfortunately is still far too low. That is why, working with the CPS and the police, we have brought in the domestic abuse joint justice plan—which I am pleased to say is already leading to a modest increase in referrals of domestic abuse cases—to improve the investigation, prosecution, and handling of domestic abuse cases.

[Leigh Ingham]

In June 2024, 60% of rape investigations were closed because the victim dropped out. On top of that I have heard harrowing stories from my constituents who went to court over their sexual assault, and who felt humiliated and were further traumatised by that process. What work is being done to ensure that victims of sexual violence are treated with empathy and respect during the court process?

[The Solicitor General]

My hon. Friend asks a pertinent question, and I am sure the whole House will be sorry to hear of the examples that she raised. She is right to say that all victims ought to be treated with empathy and respect, because victims’ loss of confidence in the criminal justice undermines the entire process of justice. I am working with the CPS to ensure better support for victims in rape and serious sexual offence cases, including by hiring victim liaison officers in teams prosecuting such cases. I had the pleasure of meeting some of those victim liaison officers while visiting the CPS in Cardiff, and I was able to hear first hand about the vital work they are doing to support victims.

[Robbie Moore (Keighley and Ilkley) (Con)]

My constituency is blighted by the shocking crime of child sexual exploitation, and rebuilding trust among victims in our criminal justice system is vital if victims are to come forward. Recently, eight men from my constituency were sentenced for the horrendous gang rape of two children and received shockingly short sentences; one was as low as three years. I have written to the Attorney General on this issue. Does the Solicitor General agree that these weak sentences are hugely damaging trust in our justice system? Will she commit, via the Attorney General, to reviewing them?

[The Solicitor General]

The example that the hon. Member refers to is indeed heinous. The conduct of those who have been involved in such crimes has rightly shocked and appalled people right across the country. He refers to a referral to the Attorney General’s Office, and it is therefore not appropriate for me to comment on that specific case further.

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

I have had many victims of domestic abuse write to me, following lengthy periods of inaction from the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and other organisations, which have left victims at risk and feeling horribly anxious. How will the Minister ensure that prosecution rates improve and victims have confidence in the criminal justice system?

[The Solicitor General]

The hon. Member makes an important point. I am sorry to hear of the examples that she raises. This Government have a historic mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade, and we are taking a series of important steps to work towards the increased number of prosecutions that she refers to. For example, we are introducing specialist rape and sexual offences teams in every police force; working to increase referrals with the recently launched domestic abuse joint justice plan; fast-tracking rape cases; and introducing free independent legal advisers for victims of adult rape. I referred earlier to domestic abuse protection orders, and the first convictions for breach of them are already being seen.

[Gregor Poynton (Livingston) (Lab)]

3. What assessment she has made of the adequacy of the Serious Fraud Office’s progress on tackling economic crime.

[The Solicitor General]

The SFO does crucial work to tackle complex fraud, bribery and corruption. I have met senior SFO staff on multiple occasions in the past two months, and I recently visited SFO HQ to understand more about the ways it is putting the latest technology to use in tackling economic crime and returning stolen funds to victims. Under the new director of the SFO, the SFO has opened seven new overt investigations and charged 10 defendants in cases involving more than 800 victims.

[Gregor Poynton]

My hon. Friend will know that fraud does not stop at the border, and residents in my Livingston constituency are incredibly concerned by the increase in fraud and economic crime and the devastating effects they can have on people’s lives. What are the UK Government doing to tackle fraud in Scotland?

[The Solicitor General]

My hon. Friend is right that fraud does not acknowledge borders, particularly when it comes to the increasing harms associated with online fraud. That is why it is so important that the SFO works closely with the Scottish law enforcement authorities. In that respect, and in others, this Government are fully committed to strengthening the Union.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Solicitor General for that reply. We in Northern Ireland understand that economic crime is used by paramilitaries to fund their organisations and criminal groups. In America, Al Capone was put in jail not for the crimes he committed, but for tax evasion and financial issues. Will the Attorney General target paramilitary groups for their efforts to raise money illegally?

[The Solicitor General]

The hon. Member makes an important point. This Government take economic crime incredibly seriously, including when it links to the serious type of activity to which he refers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

10. What steps she is taking to manage conflicts of interest in the Attorney General’s Office.

[The Solicitor General]

The Attorney General’s Office has a rigorous process for identifying and dealing with conflicts and potential conflicts that arise from Law Officers’ former practice. As part of that process, the AGO adopts a cautious and beyond reproach threshold to any conflicts or potential conflicts. These arrangements are long-standing and part of a standard practice that has applied across successive Administrations.

[Jack Rankin]

Three former Law Officers have criticised the Attorney General for not declaring his earnings, labelling it as “irregular” and a break from “normal practice”. Who is in the wrong: the three former Law Officers or the Attorney General?

[The Solicitor General]

The hon. Member will know that the Attorney General ceased all private practice following his appointment. The hon. Member refers to fee agreements, and he will know that there are different arrangements and requirements for declarations for Members of the House of Lords and for Members of the House of Commons. It does not matter which type of fee agreement is in place between a lawyer and their client, because the entirety of those agreements—whether a conditional fee agreement, a damages-based agreement, on a fully paid basis or when acting pro bono—will always be caught by the conflicts process. The requirements for the purposes of the House of Lords are the same for all peers and they apply just as much to the shadow Attorney General as to the Attorney General.

[Mr Holden]

Does the Solicitor General agree with the recent Policy Exchange research paper “Conflicts of Interest and the Law Officers’ Convention” authored by Dr Conor Casey, a senior lecturer at Surrey law school, and supported by three former Ministers who are all KCs, that invoking the Law Officers’ convention on questions about the potential conflict of interest relating to the work of the Attorney General would be an error, as such questions do not fall within the scope of the convention?

[The Solicitor General]

As I have said, the Attorney General’s Office has a rigorous process for identifying and dealing with conflicts and potential conflicts that arise from the Law Officers’ former practice. The Law Officers’ convention, to which the right hon. Member referred, exists for very good reason, which is to enable the Government of this country to receive full and frank advice. In any event, the Attorney General has been clear that he does not agree with that report. In particular, he does not agree that a Law Officer would indicate whether they have recused themselves from a particular matter, because that in itself would breach the Law Officers’ convention.

[Patrick Spencer]

My constituents in Central Suffolk and North Ipswich are decent, tolerant and thoughtful people, but they are left wondering how the Prime Minister has appointed an Attorney General who is a friend and a Labour party donor as well as someone who has represented Gerry Adams, Shamima Begum and Hamas and clearly has questions to answer regarding outside earnings. Does the Solicitor General think that the AG was an appropriate appointment?

[The Solicitor General]

Again, unfortunately the Opposition are falling into the trap of believing that barristers are their clients. That is a deliberate conflation of representation and endorsement. As the hon. Member will be fully aware, barristers are not their clients in the same way that surgeons are not their patients. That is a foundational principle of the British legal and judicial systems, and Opposition Members ought not to undermine that.

[Jon Pearce (High Peak) (Lab)]

Does the Solicitor General agree that the UK legal system is the envy of the world and a key engine for growth in our economy, and that the Conservative party risks undermining a fundamental principle of our legal system that everyone has the right to representation and that lawyers can represent their clients without fear or favour?

[The Solicitor General]

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. The Conservative party would do better to talk up our excellent British legal and judicial systems rather than consistently seeking to undermine the foundational principles to which he referred.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Solicitor General.

[Helen Grant (Maidstone and Malling) (Con)]

The Attorney General has admitted to recusing himself from certain matters; he has also maintained absolute silence about which matters those may be. In these circumstances, we must ask ourselves: is that the level of transparency that our democracy demands? What safeguards exist when the Attorney General’s past clients and present duties overlap? Who, independent of the Attorney General himself, scrutinises those critical decisions on recusal, or do we face the concerning spectacle of the Government’s chief legal adviser marking his own homework?

[The Solicitor General]

As I have outlined, the Attorney General’s Office has rigorous and long-standing processes in place. Upon appointment, the AGO compiles a list of matters in which the Law Officer has previously been involved, by searching cases, cross-referencing with information obtained by the Law Officer’s chambers or firm and working through the list with the Law Officer themselves. The Office works with the Government Legal Department, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the Crown Prosecution Service and the Serious Fraud Office to obtain additional information and compile the final list of conflicts and actions associated with each case. As the shadow Solicitor General knows, the Attorney General cannot publish a list of his former clients due to client confidentiality. [Interruption.] Opposition Members groan, but client confidentiality is a fundamental principle. Absolutely ridiculous.

The shadow Solicitor General mentioned recusal. The Attorney General has already indicated in the other place that he has recused himself from matters. The Law Officers’ convention prohibits me from listing those matters. No other Law Officer has ever published a list of the cases that they are recused from

[Helen Grant]

The Solicitor General, her predecessor and every Conservative Law Officer from the previous Administration rightly and properly understood their duty to declare previous earnings. Why does the Attorney General refuse to declare moneys received from his practice as a barrister? Why does he not acknowledge whether he continues to receive such payments when his predecessors routinely declared both? Why does this Attorney General think that there is one rule for him and another rule for everyone else?

[The Solicitor General]

The Attorney General is in the House of Lords, so the rules that apply are different from those that apply in the House of Commons. That is the difference between the Attorney General and the previous Solicitor General and me. Those requirements are the same for all peers, including the Attorney General, and they apply just as much to the shadow Attorney General. The Lords Commissioners for Standards said that they considered the complaints made by the shadow Justice Secretary about the peers code of conduct, and dismissed them.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is past 10.30 am and we need to get through some more questions.

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

5. Whether she has had meetings with her counterparts in the devolved Administrations since taking office.

[The Solicitor General]

This Government are committed to strengthening relations with devolved Governments and fostering greater collaboration, built on mutual respect and trust. As the hon. Member would expect, the Law Officers very regularly meet our counterparts to discuss our shared priorities.

[John Lamont]

The Scottish National party’s deposit return scheme was a complete shambles, which the last Conservative Government stopped, preventing it from hurting Scottish businesses with more regulation and higher costs. The SNP Government are now facing legal action over the scheme, with businesses seeking hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation. I appreciate that the Solicitor General cannot comment on a live case, but will she confirm that the SNP Government will be solely responsible for any costs that may be incurred in handling the case?

[The Solicitor General]

The hon. Member is right that I cannot comment on the specific matter that he raises, but I am happy to look at it and to write to him.

[Sarah Coombes (West Bromwich) (Lab)]

7. What assessment she has made of the potential merits of the use of technology to improve efficiency in the criminal justice system.

[The Solicitor General]

New technology has the potential to bring transformative benefits to the criminal justice system, as it does to public services more broadly. With regard to artificial intelligence, both the CPS and the SFO are keen to explore the efficiency opportunities that this new technology can bring, while being mindful of ethical considerations.

[Sarah Coombes]

We have seen a sickening rise in predators using AI technology to generate child sexual abuse images. I am glad that the Government recently announced measures to close the loopholes in this area, but will the Solicitor General assure us that the whole criminal justice system is using every new technology and AI, as well as tough sentences, to crack down on it and protect children and victims of this horrific abuse?

[The Solicitor General]

My hon. Friend is right to raise this extremely important point. That is exactly why I welcome the Home Secretary’s announcement that this Government will be the first in the world to make it illegal to possess, create or distribute AI tools designed to generate child sexual abuse material, punishable by up to five years in prison.

[Dave Robertson (Lichfield) (Lab)]

8. What steps she is taking to help ensure increased prosecution rates for rural crime.

[The Solicitor General]

The Government are committed to keeping everyone in this country safe, whether they live in a town, a city or a rural area. That is why we are putting more police officers and police community support officers on the beat, and it is why we have bolstered the Crown Prosecution Service’s workforce. With specific regard to rural crime, we are committed to implementing the Equipment Theft (Prevention) Act 2023, and to the continued funding of the national rural crime unit.

[Dave Robertson]

As I am sure the Solicitor General knows, fly-tipping is the most commonly reported rural crime. In 2022-23, the last year for which there is full data, there were well over 13,000 significant multi-load incidents; I use the phrase specifically, as it is an internal description. Those incidents cost more than £4 million to clear up, yet just 22 custodial sentences were handed out in that time. What assurances can she give me and my constituents that the most egregious examples of fly-tipping, like those we saw in Lichfield two weeks ago, will result in jail time for the perpetrators?

[The Solicitor General]

Fly-tipping blights communities, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the issue. I know that he has also raised it with the Minister for Food Security and Rural Affairs, but I am happy to arrange a meeting with his local chief Crown prosecutor to discuss the matter further.

[Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)]

The tragic hit-and-run case of Ryan Saltern in my rural North Cornwall constituency, as well as many other cases across the country, highlights a concerning problem in our legal system. The driver failed to stop, render aid at the scene, or even call 999, leaving Ryan for dead. The case was heard in a magistrates court, where the driver received a four-month suspended sentence. Ryan’s parents, Helen and Mark, and sister Leanne have campaigned tirelessly on the issue. Will the Solicitor General please look into the issue in conjunction with the CPS and the Department for Transport, and meet me to discuss her findings?

[The Solicitor General]

This is a profoundly tragic case, and I am grateful to the hon. Member for raising it. My heartfelt condolences go to Ryan’s family. I know that they and others have been campaigning for changes to the law in this area, and supporting families who have been through similarly tragic circumstances. I will discuss the case that the hon. Member raises with my colleagues in the Ministry of Justice and ensure that he receives a full response.

[Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)]

9. What steps she is taking to help ensure the effective prosecution of people who commit hate crime.

[The Solicitor General]

Whether online or in person, stirring up hatred or inciting violence will not be tolerated. The Government are determined to take swift and robust action to stamp out hate crime, and perpetrators will face the full force of the law.

[Tom Gordon]

February marks LGBT History Month, and last night, many people came together in Speaker’s House to hear about the progress that has been made in tackling hate crime against the LGBT community. Will the Solicitor General outline what steps have been taken to ensure that trans people in particular feel safe, and that perpetrators of hate crimes towards trans people are brought to justice?

[The Solicitor General]

The CPS prosecutes all cases that are referred to it, provided that they meet the full code test for Crown prosecutors. I think we would all admit that there is more to do regarding the incidents to which the hon. Member refers. The CPS and police national hate crime leads are committed to joint working to increase the number of police referrals to the CPS for hate crime offences.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Justice Committee.

[The Solicitor General]

My hon. Friend is right to identify this as a problem. I know from discussions with RASSO charities in my constituency that the shortage of counsel is a direct contributor to cases being adjourned or delayed. It contributes to the unfortunate slow pace of justice, and to victim attrition. Ministers in the Ministry of Justice have committed to work with the Bar leadership via the criminal legal aid advisory board, and to look at longer-term reform of legal aid.