Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 14 January.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Gregg McClymont]

Given the damaging uncertainty over future investment in jobs that the Prime Minister’s EU renegotiation strategy is creating in the business community, will the Prime Minister today give a guarantee that he will not support an out vote in any future in/out EU referendum?

[The Prime Minister]

Since I made the announcement that there should be an in/out referendum on Europe, the investment coming into Britain has gone up. There are regularly times when Britain is getting more inward investment than the rest of Europe put together.

[Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con)]

I am sure the whole House will want to honour the bravery of NHS Ebola volunteers and welcome the news that Nurse Pauline Cafferkey is off the critical list. As the Oxford vaccine group moves to the next stage of its Ebola trial, will the Prime Minister congratulate it on its outstanding work so far and offer all possible support in the race to develop this vital vaccine?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this issue. I am sure everyone is thinking of Pauline Cafferkey. It is very good news that she is out of critical care, but there is still a long way to go. What my hon. Friend says about developing a vaccine is vital. The Minister for Government Policy and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is leading the work on this, ensuring that we do everything to cut through some of the bureaucracy that would otherwise be in place, so that we can develop a vaccine fast.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

The whole country, across all faiths and communities, felt a sense of solidarity with the people of France following last week’s dreadful attacks. Those who seek to terrorise and divide us should be in no doubt: they will fail. This House of Commons has sent a clear signal on this issue: we are united.

Turning to the actions that need to be taken, does the Prime Minister agree with me that a key objective of our counter-terrorism efforts must be to prevent young people from being drawn into violent extremism in the first place? Does he also agree that the programme designed to tackle the problem, Prevent, needs to be expanded so that it supports, in particular, community-led action and is given the priority it deserves?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me agree with the right hon. Gentleman about how important it is to stand together in favour of free speech, freedom of expression, the rule of law and democracy—the values that we hold dear. I think the demonstration in Paris and the outpouring we have seen both here and around the world against these horrific attacks shows that those values will not be defeated.

On what the right hon. Gentleman says about what must be done, we have to prepare for any attack that could take place. That means making sure that we fund our counter-terrorism policing properly, as we do. It means reaching out to potentially vulnerable groups of people—for instance, I met the Jewish Leadership Council yesterday. But as the right hon. Gentleman says, it also means confronting the poisonous narrative of Islamist extremism. That is what we are doing through putting a duty on every public organisation to confront extremism wherever they find it, whether that is in universities, schools, on campuses, in prisons or elsewhere. That is what the Prevent programme, which we are expanding, is all about.

[Edward Miliband]

Let me associate myself with what the Prime Minister said, and particularly what he said about anti-Semitism and prejudice wherever we find it. On the point about British citizens who travel to Syria to participate in the conflict, does he agree that, with more than half of them having returned, we need to do more? In particular, does he agree that we need a much more rigorous approach, including compulsory engagement with de-radicalisation programmes to turn people away from violent extremism?

[The Prime Minister]

I think it right for us to we do everything we can to stop people travelling to Syria to take part in these activities, and that is what the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill—which is going through the House of Lords right now—is intended to do; but also, as the right hon. Gentleman says, people coming back to this country should be looked at on a case-by-case basis, and in every case consideration should be given to whether they would benefit from a counter-radicalisation programme.

As for the Prevent programme, it was reviewed by Lord Carlile in 2011, and he said of that existing programme:

“there have been cases where groups whom we would now consider to support an extremist ideology have received funding.”

That is why we changed Prevent. We are now expanding the programme, and, as the right hon. Gentleman says, we need to ensure that everyone who would benefit from counter-radicalisation gets it.

Let me make one final point, in, I hope, a spirit of friendliness across the House. One or two people, referring to our current situation, have said that this is something of a zombie Parliament. Let me point out that the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill, which is absolutely vital to the defeating of terrorism, is being discussed and debated in the Houses of Parliament right now.

[Edward Miliband]

I am glad that we can work across parties on that issue, and we will endeavour to continue to do so. Let me now turn to an issue on which there is less agreement. In May 2010, speaking about the television debates, a party leader said:

“it would have been feeble to find some excuse to back out so I thought we’ve got to stick at this, we’ve got to do it.”

Will the Prime Minister remind us of who said that?

[The Prime Minister]

I am all for these debates taking place, but you cannot have—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The question has been asked, and the answer must be heard.

[The Prime Minister]

I am all for these debates, but you cannot have two minor parties without the third minor party. So I put the question to the right hon. Gentleman: why is he so frightened of debating with the Green party?

[Edward Miliband]

I will debate with anyone whom the broadcasters invite, but the man who said that it would be feeble to back out of the debates was the Prime Minister. Now, we all understand that as long ago as last Thursday his abiding passion was to give the Green party a platform, but it is frankly a pathetic excuse. [Interruption.] It is not for him, it is not for me, it is not for any party leader to decide who is in the debate. It is up to the broadcasters. That is the country that we live in. Is the Prime Minister really telling the people of Britain that he will seek to deny them the television debates if he does not get to choose who is in them?

[The Prime Minister]

We had a set of European elections last year, and UKIP and the Greens both beat the Liberal Democrats, I am afraid to say. It is very simple. You either have both of them, or you have none of them. So let me ask the right hon. Gentleman again: why is he so chicken when it comes to the Greens?

[Edward Miliband]

There is only one person who is running scared of these debates, and that is this Prime Minister. When he says that he does not want to take part because of the Greens, no one, but no one, believes him—not the people behind him, not the person next to him, not the country. However he dresses it up, everyone knows that he is running scared. These debates do not belong to me, and they do not belong to him. They belong to the British people. What does he think gives him the right to run away from these debates?

[The Prime Minister]

There are two credible sets of debates. You can either have a debate with all the national parties who appear in the House, or you can have a debate between two people, one of whom will become Prime Minister—or you can have both. Those are the credible debates. So I ask the right hon. Gentleman again: when he looks at the Green party, why is he so scared?

[Edward Miliband]

I will debate with anyone whom the broadcasters invite to debate. I think the Prime Minister doth protest too much. He has run out of excuses, he is running scared of these debates, and, in the words of his heroine Lady Thatcher, he is frit.

[The Prime Minister]

Is it not interesting, Mr Speaker? With just 10 of these sessions to go, the right hon. Gentleman wants to debate having a debate. He cannot talk about unemployment, because it is coming down; he cannot talk about growth in the economy, because it is going up; he cannot talk about his energy price freeze, because it has turned him into a total joke. I have to say to him that the more time he and I can spend in the television studio and on television, the happier I shall be. But please, if he has any more questions left, will he ask a serious one?

[Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con)]

The former Prime Minister Mr Blair had to be summoned to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee yesterday to reluctantly give evidence. We now understand that the director-general of the BBC, Lord Hall, is refusing to give evidence to another Select Committee on the grounds that he is a Member of Parliament. He is also a paid public servant. Is it not time that we reviewed the matter of parliamentary privilege in this place?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very carefully at what my hon. Friend says. Obviously it is a matter for the Select Committee and the House, but the general rule should be that people involved in the senior management of the BBC who are summoned to appear in front of a Select Committee should come, because the BBC needs to be, and is, publicly accountable. I think Lord Hall does a very good job at the BBC, and I am sure he would give a good account of himself, but I will have a careful look at what my hon. Friend says.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

Q2. At the Liaison Committee meeting on 16 December the Prime Minister promised to look into the full publication of the extensively redacted DEFRA report on shale gas rural economy impacts. Has he looked into this, and is he now going to insist on full and unredacted publication?

[The Prime Minister]

I did look into the issue, and I do not want to give the hon. Gentleman an inaccurate answer so I will go and check on the action taken after that meeting and see what I can tell him.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Q3. In a speech last week the director general of MI5 identified a number of important gaps in its surveillance which need to be addressed in law. Some have called that a breach of civil liberties, and others have said that it is just another snoopers charter, but does the Prime Minister agree that public safety must come above everything else and that civil liberty must include not being bombed, shot or beheaded by some deranged jihadist?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the first duty of every Government is to keep the country safe. We certainly do not do that by trashing our own civil liberties and traditions. When it comes to this vital issue of being able to have proper surveillance of the communications of potential terrorists, up until now this Parliament and British Governments have taken a very clear view: whether it has been about looking at letters, or about fixed telephone communications or mobile communications, we have always believed that, in extremis, on the production of a signed warrant from the Home Secretary, it should be possible to look at someone’s communications to try and stop a terrorist outrage. The decision we have to take is: are we prepared to allow in future, as technology develops, safe spaces for terrorists to communicate? The principle I think we should adopt is that we are not content for that to happen, and as a result we should look to legislate accordingly.

[Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

Raif Badawi faces 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison because he wrote some articles with which his Government disagreed. Will the Prime Minister join me in condemning the barbaric and mediaeval regime of Saudi Arabia, and does he believe that our international alliances should be founded more on human rights and less on economic muscle?

[The Prime Minister]

We do not approve of these sorts of punishments, and we always raise these cases in the strongest possible way when British citizens are involved, and I know we will on this occasion, too.

[Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)]

Q4. Unemployment down 44%, youth unemployment down 45%, long-term unemployment down 44%, business start-ups up 31% and 800 apprenticeship starts—all in the last year in South Basildon and East Thurrock. What does my right hon. Friend think that says about our long-term economic plan?

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted at the news that my hon. Friend brings. It is remarkable how in almost every constituency in this House the number of people claiming unemployment benefit is down and the number of young people claiming benefit is down. There are 224,000—almost a quarter of a million—more people in work in the east of England as a whole. Those are statistics, but every one of those statistics is about someone who is going out and earning a wage, supporting their family and managing to achieve a better standard of living. That is what we must continue with, and that is why we must stick to the long-term economic plan.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Q5. Eliminating the deficit, net migration down to tens of thousands, no VAT rise, no top-down reorganisation of the NHS —why did the Prime Minister make these promises and why did he break them?

[The Prime Minister]

We said we would get the deficit down and the deficit is down by half as a share of our national economy, from the disgraceful situation left by Labour. I thought the hon. Gentleman would take the opportunity to talk about the vital steel interests in his constituency, which we will be talking about later today. We are working as hard as we can to make sure we keep steel production growing in our country, but as the hon. Gentleman has introduced a political element, so might I. Under this Government steel production is up, whereas it was down under Labour. Under this Government employment in the steel industry is up, whereas it was down under Labour. Why is that? Because we have a car industry that is growing, an aerospace industry that is growing, and construction is growing. We are getting Britain back to work.

[Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

Q6. Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the past 12 months, more than 60 journalists have been killed in the course of their work, including those at Charlie Hebdo last week? Just five weeks ago, I and several other Members of Parliament attended the signing in Paris of a declaration by representatives of every European country, recognising the vital role of journalists in a free society and pledging to do everything possible to protect their safety. Will my right hon. Friend reaffirm that commitment today?

[The Prime Minister]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work he does in supporting the freedom of the press and I certainly reiterate what he says today. This most struck me when I visited Jaffna, in northern Sri Lanka, and went to see a newspaper office that had been shot up, bombed and burned. That brings home what journalists in other countries have for years faced in bringing the truth and putting it in front of the people, which is a vital part of a free democratic system. Obviously, the events in Paris are truly horrific, and the duty of everyone in public life is not necessarily to say whether or not we agree with this or that being published—everyone can have their opinion; it is not that that matters. What matters is that we should always defend the right of people to publish whatever is within the law and in their opinion right to publish. That is our job and we must do it properly.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q7. We are seeing a meltdown in emergency care, yet the Prime Minister’s Health Secretary accuses us of whipping up a crisis. Is it not time for some honesty? This Government are simply failing our NHS.

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising the NHS because, absolutely, we do face real challenges this winter with the pressures on A and E. But in her own constituency, the Homerton University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust proved what can be done with the extra resources that we are putting in and the excellent management of that hospital. Last week, 96.6% of people going to A and E in her constituency were seen within four hours.

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

Q8. Last week I met Chloe, a care assistant apprentice who started her apprenticeship after visiting my most recent jobs fair in Halesowen. Will the Prime Minister congratulate all those people who have got jobs and started apprenticeships in my constituency since 2010, where unemployment has fallen by 30% in the last year alone—further evidence that the Government’s long-term economic plan is delivering better quality jobs and opportunities for people across Halesowen and Rowley Regis?

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in congratulating Chloe on starting her apprenticeship. In his constituency, nearly 4,000 people have begun an apprenticeship since 2010 and the claimant count there is down 42% since the election. The long-term youth claimant count—that should be of the greatest concern to us, because that is young people on unemployment benefit month after month—is down by 58% in the last year alone. This recovery is gathering pace and is providing jobs for people, and each one of those jobs is a chance for them to provide a better future for their families. But we must stick to the plan and a key part of the plan is getting the deficit down.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Q9. Ambulance trusts are under such pressure that they are downgrading calls from some of the sickest people in the country. In the East of England area, 57 people are believed to have died while waiting for an ambulance that never arrived. Is not the Prime Minister ashamed that this is what happens when the Tories run the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

Clearly, what happened in East Anglia was wrong, and the change was made without the knowledge of the trust’s board. As soon as it was found out, the chief executive reversed the decision and ordered that an independent investigation be carried out by someone outside the trust. That investigation found that there had been no harm to patients, and I think it is important to put this in context. The hon. Gentleman quite rightly says that it is important that we conduct this debate in a good and civilised way. At the weekend, the Leader of the Opposition was asked seven times whether he had used the phrase that he wanted to “weaponise the NHS”. Seven times he refused to answer the question. Everybody knows that he said those words, and if he had a shred of decency in him, he would get up and explain that he should not have said those words, and apologise.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

A few weeks ago, a tragic event occurred in my constituency when a five-year-old girl, Andrea Gada, was killed in a traffic accident. Since then, Eastbourne and her school, Shinewater primary, have rallied round to support her parents and the rest of her family. They have raised money to try to bring her grandparents and her aunt over from Zimbabwe to Eastbourne to join the family at the funeral, but the Home Office has refused those relatives entry, saying that they would abscond. The parents have given me an undertaking that this will not happen, and I have gone a step further and said that I will act as a guarantor that the relatives will return to Zimbabwe. The Home Office’s decision is cruel and unkind. Prime Minister, will you intervene?

[The Prime Minister]

It is absolutely horrific when children are killed in accidents like this, and we all know of individual cases in our own constituencies. It is heartbreaking when it happens. I will certainly look at the case—I was just discussing it with the Home Secretary—and make sure that the Home Office has a careful look to see what can be done.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Q10. The Prime Minister will be aware that members of the public and small businesses across the UK have had to endure very high fuel bills in recent years when oil prices were averaging more than $100 a barrel. In recent weeks, that price has dropped steadily and now stands at less that half that level. However, fuel prices at the pump have not been reduced by anything like that amount. Last week, the Chancellor indicated that some action would be taken against the fuel companies. Will the Prime Minister outline what action that will be?

[The Prime Minister]

First, we should welcome this fall in oil prices. We are beginning to see prices fall quite substantially at the pumps, but I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we want to see them go down further and faster. Some of this will depend on the buying strategies that the fuel companies had, but we will ensure that the competition authorities and the Government do everything they can to ensure that those fuel prices are passed on.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

On 30 January, I shall be holding a dementia summit in my constituency to bring together some of the fantastic work that voluntary sector organisations such as Wetherby in Support of the Elderly—WiSE—and Peter Smith in Rothwell have done on dementia. Does my right hon. Friend agree that dementia is one of the biggest challenges that this country faces in the coming century? Does he also agree that we need a strong economy if we are to be able to invest in dementia research?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is a crisis for our country. It has been creeping up like a sort of silent crisis, because the diagnosis rate has not been high enough and I do not think there has been enough action across our communities to join up and deal with it. That is now happening, however, and we have a clear dementia strategy. We are doubling the amount of money going into research and we are training many more people in our NHS and our care homes to deal with people with dementia better. Also, we are ensuring that more people in the community become dementia friends, with a target of more than 1 million people doing so. We had a session in Cabinet the other day at which every member of the Cabinet became a dementia friend. I commend what my hon. Friend is doing in his constituency—I did the same in mine—getting together all the organisations that can help people with dementia so that we can spread the word about good practice. People with dementia need not only great health care but help when they are at the post office, the bank and the building society, and when they are on the bus or at the train station. They need help in every part of their life and we all have a role to play.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Q11. According to the Royal College of Nursing, the number of nurses in London has fallen by 4,500. The Prime Minister says that the number is rising. Who is right?

[The Prime Minister]

The fact is that nation wide we have 3,300 more nurses, and I can give the hon. Gentleman some figures for his own constituency. The NHS Redbridge clinical commissioning group is this year getting an increase in funding of 4.79% and the numbers of staff in it are up. If we look at Barts hospital, we see that last week over 6,630 people were seen within four hours, and performance across the London area has been very good. I make one further point to him, which he might want to bring home to his own local authorities—this is important when we consider what is happening in social care. He has two local authorities: Redbridge, which has seen its reserves go up by £65 million since 2010; and Waltham Forest, whose reserves have gone up by £26 million since 2010. That is what is happening and that actually would fill the gap. Finally, let me give him the information on Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest and Newham as a whole in terms of the winter funding money: that has provided 22 more doctors, 27 more nurses and 146 more beds.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

Q12. There are over 3 million people with diabetes in this country, and today Diabetes UK has published its state of the nation report. It calls for education to help people prevent type 2 diabetes; education so that people know when to approach their general practitioner with symptoms of type 1 or type 2; and education of people with the condition so that they can self-manage and take pressure off the NHS. Will the Prime Minister look at the report and act on its findings?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly look at this report, because, of all the health care conditions, diabetes is one of the ones where, if we act on it fast, we could have a huge knock-on effect on the NHS. If we look at the costs of things such as amputations and other treatments because people are getting diabetes, we see that we could make an enormous impact. The hon. Gentleman raises the issue of people being able to self-regulate. An enormous amount of exciting new technology is coming forward on diabetes, and I want to make sure that that technology is rapidly adopted by the NHS.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

The independent Office for Budget Responsibility says that the Government’s long-term spending plans mean cutting 1 million public service workers. Could the Prime Minister tell the country which million he is planning to cut?

[The Prime Minister]

The OBR says exactly what the Treasury says, which is that everyone who last night voted for the fiscal mandate is committed to £30 billion of adjustment in the next two years. My party has set out exactly how we meet that: it is £13 billion of departmental cuts and £12 billion of welfare cuts and £5 billion from tax evasion and avoidance. So far the Labour party has told us absolutely diddly-squat about how it would raise a single penny of that money, so the challenge for the Labour party is: if you are going to sign up to £30 billion of adjustment, is it not time you told us which taxes are going to go up, what you are going to do about debt and how you are going to wreck this country’s economy?

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Q13. Has my right hon. Friend seen the story of White Van Alison in The Sun, on page 6, today? Is he aware that under this Government white van women are flourishing? Over 20% of businesses are run by women and over 53% of apprenticeships are started by females. Does he agree that white van women, especially those from Essex, are the wheels of our long-term economic plan?

[The Prime Minister]

Absolutely, and those wheels must keep turning. The point my hon. Friend makes is important. Of course I look at The Sun every morning, and I was fascinated to see this article. The fact is that under Labour, female unemployment went up by 24%. Under this Government the number of women in work is at its highest since records began. The proportion of women-led businesses in our country is up by a third, but it is still true that if we could get the same level of female entrepreneurship in Britain as there is in America, we would virtually wipe out the remaining unemployment.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

At 1 o’clock this afternoon a petition will be laid at No. 10 Downing street by parents and children who are suffering from Duchenne muscular dystrophy. It calls on the Prime Minister personally to get involved to get NHS England to stop a bureaucratic internal debate which is preventing the licensing of the drug Translarna, which can have an effect on young boys that means they do not have to go into a wheelchair before it is absolutely necessary. At the moment most of them are in a wheelchair before they reach their teens. Will the Prime Minister personally get involved and get this resolved as a matter of urgency?

[The Prime Minister]

I will try to find time to see those parents today. I was looking at this issue last night and there was a child, who was about the same age as my son, pictured with his local football team, just as my son was. It made me think how vital it is to get these drugs through as quickly as we can. I know that there has been a debate on whether these drugs should be licensed quickly and on all the issues and problems. I will meet those parents, look at their petition and see what can be done.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

Q14. Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what is worse: to deny the deficit, forget that it exists or have no plan to bring it back into balance?

[The Prime Minister]

I think that in the three stages of man—or at least the three stages of Miliband—we are now at the final part. Labour Members have, I think, finally accepted that there is a deficit. They have now voted for £30 billion of adjustment, but they cannot manage to tell us how much they will raise in taxes and what they will do with spending. They have had four and a half years to come up with an economic policy and they have absolutely no plan for our country.

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

My 94-year-old constituent was taken by ambulance from her GP to A and E at Charing Cross hospital where she waited six hours in a corridor before being admitted. The next morning, she was moved to another hospital because there were no beds available. Does the Prime Minister think that axing A and E and all but 24 of 360 inpatient beds at Charing Cross, as he proposes, will make such appalling incidents more or less likely in the future?

[The Prime Minister]

The truth is that, nation wide, 94% of people have so far this year been seeing a doctor within four hours at A and E. But everybody in this House knows, and everybody who is a neighbouring Member of Parliament of the hon. Gentleman knows, that he is absolutely instrumental in spreading disinformation campaign after disinformation campaign about his local hospitals. For once, he should take the truth and put it in a leaflet.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

Q15. Some people are quick to criticise the NHS when it faces challenges. It must also then be right to celebrate its successes, so will the Prime Minister congratulate Milton Keynes hospital and the university of Buckingham on establishing a new medical school that will not only train the next generation of clinicians but raise standards at our hospital?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to join my hon. Friend in doing that. Making sure that we educate the next generation of doctors, nurses and clinicians is vital. Under this Government, we have 9,000 more doctors and 3,300 more nurses. We are treating 1.3 million more people in A and E, and there are 6 million more out-patient appointments. That is what is happening in our NHS, and all credit to the hard-working staff who are carrying out that vital work.

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

Welfare benefit recipients are often demonised as a burden on our taxpayers, but does the Prime Minister agree that the real burden on taxpayers are those employers who can afford to pay well above the minimum wage, but do not, thereby leaving hard-working families to state dependency and food banks.

[The Prime Minister]

I am in favour of the living wage. Those organisations that can pay the living wage should pay the living wage. It is something that should happen. But in addition to that, what we can help with—[Interruption.] I hear the Leader of the Opposition. Doncaster council does not pay the living wage, so perhaps he should start with his own backyard. That shut him up. In addition to that and to seeing the minimum wage rise, we should be taking the lowest-paid people out of tax. Under this Government, we have taken 3 million of the lowest paid people out of tax.

[Mr Slaughter]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.