Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, with permission I will make a Statement on the quest for a political settlement to the war in Yemen. Last week, the Houthi rebels and the Government of Yemen held their first direct peace talks since 2016. The negotiations in Stockholm reached agreement on a ceasefire in the port city of Hodeidah and a mutual redeployment of forces, monitored by the United Nations.

As we look forward to Christmas, the people of Yemen are enduring one of the gravest humanitarian crises in the world. Hunger and disease are ravaging large areas of the country: 420,000 children have been treated for malnutrition, and as many as 85,000 have starved to death. Today, 24 million Yemenis, more than 85% of the population, need help. Behind these stark, impersonal numbers lie real people: individual men, women and children with hopes and aspirations no different from our own. Their ordeal is not the result of natural disaster or misfortune: this is a man-made calamity, imposed by a war that has torn the country apart and reduced its people to appalling poverty—hence the imperative need to resolve this conflict as rapidly as possible.

From the beginning, Britain has made every effort to promote a political solution. Last month, I travelled to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, which lead the coalition fighting to restore Yemen’s legitimate Government. I later visited Iran, which supports the Houthi rebels. In every capital I urged my counterparts to use all their influence to help bring the parties to the negotiating table. After my visit to the region, agreement was reached for 50 wounded Houthis to be evacuated from Yemen to Oman—a confidence-building measure intended to pave the way for peace talks. On 19 November I instructed our mission at the United Nations to circulate a draft resolution to the Security Council, reinforcing the need for a political settlement and demanding the unhindered flow of food and medicine throughout Yemen.

On 6 December the peace talks began in Stockholm, mediated by Martin Griffiths, the UN special envoy. Last Wednesday I went to Stockholm myself, and the following day I met leaders of both delegations. I was the first British Minister to meet representatives of the Houthis. I urged the parties to seize the opportunity to reach agreements that would ease the suffering of the Yemeni people and move closer towards the goal of ending the war. Last Thursday the talks concluded with an agreement for the parties to meet again in January and to build trust by releasing thousands of prisoners. Honourable Members will note the importance of the agreement on a ceasefire and redeployment in Hodeidah, because this port is the lifeline for Yemen, the channel for at least 70% of the country’s food imports.

The ceasefire in Hodeidah port and city came into effect at midnight yesterday and the UN special envoy has reported that it seems to be working. If the ceasefire continues to hold and the UN succeeds in increasing the volume of traffic through the port, this should reduce the level of suffering. I have urged all parties to stick to the terms agreed last week in Stockholm so that we can find a lasting political solution to this devastating conflict.

After the talks, I spoke about the next steps to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, António Guterres, and the Foreign Ministers of Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Earlier, I discussed the situation with Secretary Pompeo of the United States. Based on these consultations—and the success of the peace talks—I have instructed our mission in New York to resume working on a draft resolution with Security Council partners, with a view to adopting it later this week. We will ask the Security Council to vote on the draft within the next 48 hours.

The UK text aims to build on the momentum generated in Stockholm by endorsing the agreements reached between the parties, authorising the United Nations to monitor their implementation, and setting out urgent steps to alleviate the humanitarian crisis. Our aim is to mobilise the collective weight of the United Nations behind the progress that has been made.

I am grateful to Martin Griffiths for his dogged efforts, which are nothing short of heroic. I acknowledge the seriousness of the delegations—on both sides—I met in Stockholm last week. I offer my thanks to the British diplomats, both in the region and in the Foreign Office, who have worked assiduously behind the scenes to bring the parties together. Britain has been able to play this role because of our network of friendships, including our partnerships with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and because we are a country that will always step up to its responsibilities in the world.

The House can draw encouragement from recent events, but I do not wish to give false hope. The positive steps that we have seen could easily be reversed. The ceasefire in Hodeidah is fragile. Many complex and difficult problems have yet to be addressed, let alone resolved. The people of Yemen still carry an immense burden of suffering. In the last few days, light has appeared at the end of the tunnel, but we should be in no doubt that Yemen is still in a tunnel. For as long as necessary, this country will continue to use all the diplomatic and humanitarian tools at our command to help settle this terrible conflict. Our values demand no less and I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

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[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. Of course, the United Kingdom has a responsibility here. It is the penholder at the Security Council, responsible for drafting and tabling resolutions and statements. There has been pressure on the United Kingdom to take action in relation to Yemen, and I am extremely glad that this is now happening.

As the Minister laid out, this is an absolutely desperate situation. Like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I too pay tribute to Martin Griffiths and Mark Lowcock for their extraordinary efforts. It is encouraging to hear that both the Houthis and the Saudis have now reached a point where they want a solution. That obviously helps enormously. What progress is being made towards enshrining this agreement in a Security Council resolution? The noble Lord referred to that, but is he optimistic that it will be agreed? How then will the agreement be built upon, so that it can be extended to the rest of the country in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned?

Both parties are meant to withdraw from Hodeidah within 21 days. What signs are there that they are preparing to withdraw? I realise that the key players who were in Stockholm do not necessarily have control over those on the ground, which further complicates matters. Will the United Kingdom supply members to the UN monitoring and verification teams? The Houthis have agreed to hand over maps of landmines in Hodeidah. Will the United Kingdom support any landmine clearance programme, as we have done in other parts of the world?

Does the Minister agree that the implementation of the detainee agreement is a vital confidence-building measure, affecting potentially thousands of families? Will the Government call upon all sides to stop the abuse, torture and disappearing of prisoners? Will the Minister update the House on any progress made on the issue of child soldiers, to which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred? Will he also explain what efforts will be made to ensure that women are actively included in the peace talks? I am sure he will agree that that is vital.

On Sunday, UN Secretary-General António Guterres warned that if Yemen’s humanitarian situation did not improve, at least 14 million people would need food aid in 2019, which would be 6 million more than this year. With that number needing food aid and the 24 million whom the noble Lord referred to as needing humanitarian assistance generally, what prospects are there of good access to these people, most of whom are civilians? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their remarks and support. I align myself with them in commending once again the efforts of British diplomats, but also the Brits involved as representatives at a UN level. Mark Lowcock was mentioned, as was Mr Griffiths. Having met both individuals to discuss this issue, I have seen their efforts directly and they are pretty much exemplary. I think we all join together in commending the crucial role they have played. We have worked closely with them both, particularly Mr Griffiths, in tabling the resolution and ensuring that we reflected the outcome of the talks in Stockholm, so that there was real momentum behind the resolution.

On the specific questions raised, there will be some on which I can give specific details because the Stockholm talks have just concluded. As I said in the Statement, the situation is fragile. There is a degree of optimism because it is the first time for a long period that both sides have sat down. They have had discussions and there have been some detailed outcomes. For the benefit of the House and in answer to some of the questions, I shall put what the parties have agreed into four distinct categories. They include that there will be a governorate-wide ceasefire in Hodeidah. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked whether this relates to the port of Hodeidah only. As mentioned in previous Questions and debates, the ports of Salif and Ras Isa will be included in that. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, referred to the prisoner exchange and the importance of adhering to it. My right honourable friend has conducted shuttle diplomacy in the region and one of the outcomes I alluded to in the Statement is that we hope to see families beginning—I stress “beginning”—to rebuild their lives. We are expecting a prisoner exchange agreement covering between 2,000 and 4,000 people during that time.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, there was a statement of understanding on the war-torn city of Taiz, including the establishment of a de-escalation committee. There is an agreement to have further talks in January 2019. The noble Lord and the noble Baroness pointed to the importance of accountability. I assure the House that that is a key focus of Her Majesty’s Government as penholders and as interlocutors in the role we are playing between both parties to ensure that, as peace is sustained and strengthened, the perpetrators of crimes on both sides are held to account.

Turning to children in armed conflict, in my first year as a Minister for the UN, I have worked very closely with the United Nations, particularly with Virginia Gamba, who leads on this as Under-Secretary-General. We have supported her work and office. Earlier this week, I met Carey Mulligan and others associated with War Child. This is a priority and a focus. It is a travesty that in conflicts—not just in Yemen but in other parts of the world—we see very young children put on the front line. We will certainly focus on that in the resolutions we reach on this issue.

We continue to work on the UN resolution. It is a live issue with our representatives. Our ambassador and permanent representative in New York is working with other partners to ensure that we can finalise it. That is why I have given the timeline of 48 hours in this respect.

The noble Baroness also mentioned the role of women in conflict resolution. It is a travesty that past resolutions of conflicts around the world have excluded women. There is no doubt in my mind about the statistics. We often ask for an evidence base and the evidence is there. When women are involved in conflict resolution, the peace holds for 15 years longer, on average, because women are pivotal and central to ensuring that conflicts can be resolved and peace can be sustained.

Land mine clearance is an area that the United Kingdom has worked on. At this time, it is too early to judge the extent of the issue, but we will look at it in the continuing discussions in which we will be involved.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has focused on the progress made following the talks in Stockholm. There has been a lot of progress since this House last discussed the conflict in Yemen in a debate introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Luce. Will the Minister answer slightly more clearly the question asked by my noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury about when there will be a national ceasefire? I am sure the Minister will agree that heavy fighting continues to take place outside Hodeidah with serious effects on the population. While a political solution is vital in any conflict of this sort, it seems to me that it will be rather hard to get that political solution while there is continuing fighting elsewhere in the country.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point. However, what has been agreed at this time is a focus on Hodeidah port for obvious strategic reasons: it is the main port through which humanitarian and medical supplies come and it was important that we reached agreement. This is an incremental process. As I alluded to in response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, there has been a statement of understanding to look in the next stage of the peace talks at the war-torn city of Taiz, and we will look at incremental steps towards building the objective that I know all noble Lords share: a ceasefire across the whole country. However, it is important that we approach this in a systematic, structured fashion. I add a word of caution that this is a very fragile peace with, for the moment, a focus just on Hodeidah. Of course I share the ultimate objective to which the noble Baroness aspires. However, at this time, we need to focus on what has been achieved thus far, and I shall of course keep the House updated on progress in this respect.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I offer my congratulations to the Minister, his department and all those involved in getting this far, while continuing to regret that there was such a long period in which the UN Security Council was pretty passive. Will he ensure that from now on, now that the UN has come back into the centre of the efforts being made, it will remain there; that Martin Griffiths will continue to have the full support of the Security Council; and that, if necessary, more action will be taken by it if one or the other side to this dispute breaks the arrangements so far made?

Secondly, he referred to monitoring in the port of Hodeidah. Is that monitoring the supply of humanitarian resources, or is it also monitoring the ceasefire in and around Hodeidah? If so, what contribution will the United Nations make to that monitoring and what contribution will we make to help the United Nations play its role in that matter?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, I appreciate the noble Lord’s expert insight, particularly into the UN. There are many critics of the United Nations, but the role that it and, particularly, Martin Griffiths, has played in this respect has demonstrated that role’s importance in conflict resolution. I take up the challenge when people say that the UN is ineffective. It has its challenges, but it also brings incredible benefits when countries come together to resolve challenges and conflicts such as that in Yemen.

In answer to the noble Lord’s question, and in support of Martin Griffiths, I point to recent evidence. When we were looking to table the resolution, we spoke closely to Mr Griffiths. The alignment of the resolution with the outcome of the Stockholm talks demonstrates British support for his position. We continue to work with him and support his efforts in this respect.

Monitoring has focused on the supply of humanitarian aid, but it will also look at ensuring that the peace that has currently been reached—I caution that there were recent reports of outbreaks of minor violence around Hodeidah—continues to be monitored by the United Nations. Specific numbers and how any future deployment may work in the region will, I am sure, be a subject for future discussion.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, these developments are obviously to be welcomed and those responsible are certainly entitled to congratulations, but looking through the Statement, I see no reference to Iran. Iran is playing a significant role in these affairs in Yemen. What exchange has there been involving Her Majesty’s Government—either between the Foreign Secretary and his Iranian equivalent or at the United Nations, between Karen Pierce, our high representative, and her equivalent?

Secondly, resolutions of this kind have previously fallen foul of the objection of both Russia and China. What efforts are being made to ensure that in this instance they will be on side?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, in answer to the second question I can assure the noble Lord that we are working tirelessly on this, in particular Karen Pierce, our permanent representative to the UN. I pay tribute to her efforts; anyone who knows her will know that she is a formidable ambassador and an experienced diplomat. As I speak, she continues to work to ensure the kind of support that is required for such a resolution, and we are working with partners in this respect.

On the first question on Iran, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has engaged directly with Foreign Minister Zarif, and we continue to work with Iran on important issues. As I also said in the Statement, after the Foreign Secretary had visited the UAE and Saudi Arabia, he paid a visit to Iran.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

Will the Minister cast any further light on a point arising from the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay? As the Minister said, in Stockholm it was clear that there were questions about the command structure, communications and the delivery mechanism between what was agreed at Stockholm and on whose authority, and what happens on the ground. To take this a step further from what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said, in other examples like this—Bosnia springs to mind, but there are many others—I assume that there needs to be monitoring by UN personnel, but not wearing blue berets. The Minister mentioned the delicacy of the situation, and the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, mentioned China. To what extent is there an issue about making sure that the UN has some ability to be in the chain of command in the context of implementation, or is there a blockage in the area?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

If I understand the noble Lord correctly, I have already alluded to the fact that China is an important partner, not just on this issue but as a P5 member of the Security Council, and as I said, we are working tirelessly through our team in New York to ensure full support for the resolution. That is why I said that this will be tabled and voted on within the next 48 hours. As I said in the Statement, we have circulated the resolution, and China and other members of the Security Council have been cited. We look towards what I believe will be successful support by all members of the Security Council of a first step in resolving a conflict that we all recognise has gone on for far too long.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords, I welcome the Statement and the commitments within it. The depth of the humanitarian crisis in Yemen is clear from the Statement and everything we hear. Two-thirds of the population have no food security at all, and nearly a quarter of a million Yemenis are on the brink of starvation. I declare my interest as a trustee of the Disasters Emergency Committee, to which the British public gave £30 million for its 2016 Yemen appeal. Will the Minister confirm that despite all the difficulties, UK agencies are still working on the ground in Yemen, mainly with Yemeni staff, to deliver aid, even in those desperately difficult circumstances? Will he also confirm that the effort needs to be increased many times if we are to meet the depth and the scale of the humanitarian disaster there, and that that can happen only if and when political and military progress means that there is access on the ground?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I recognise the points the noble Baroness raises. If we reflect on the history of this conflict, it is incredible when we see people who still persevere, notwithstanding the lack of a political settlement, a peace agreement and access. While we are right to pay tribute to the likes of Mark Lowcock and Martin Griffiths, when we see the courage and bravery in these conflict zones it is also appropriate to acknowledge and commend the work of NGOs, not just from the United Kingdom but internationally. By doing the right thing and supporting humanitarian efforts these volunteers often put themselves on the front line, at great risk to their own lives.

I agree with the point made by the noble Baroness about the generosity of the British people in crises. Yemen has been no different. On 3 April, as she will be aware, we announced an additional £170 million for the current financial year in response to the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, As I was preparing for this Statement I saw that my noble friend Lady Warsi had written an article that, I believe, appeared in the Independent today, reminding us all that this is just the current support we can offer. In view of the famine, and cholera spreading among a young population, I agree with the noble Baroness that, as this peace holds, we should, and will, be looking to increase our efforts to ensure that the humanitarian needs of the country are fully met, so that people can start rebuilding a future.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

As it is nearly Christmas, may I extend my own thanks to the Minister for all the concern that he personally has shown for human rights, as evidenced today, including in his earlier response to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Alton? It is noted all around the House. Following the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, on humanitarian aid, my only question is: to what extent has the port of Hodeidah actually reopened? There has never been much of it open, but has the Minister any idea what difference the latest ceasefire has made to the flow of humanitarian aid?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First let me thank the noble Earl for his kind remarks, but I am just doing my job. I am proud, humbled and honoured to be acting as Minister for Human Rights, among my responsibilities in Her Majesty’s Government—and this job is made all the easier by the expertise, insights and support that I receive from your Lordships’ House. I pay particular tribute to the respective Front-Bench spokesmen—the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins. It would be fair to say that there are times when we oppose each other, but it is reflective of the unity with which we act on this important principle internationally that this House, and the other place—notwithstanding the difficulties that we have—come together on important issues that unite us. There is no bigger issue than supporting and standing up for human rights and supporting humanitarian causes around the world, and I am grateful to all noble Lords for their constant support in that respect.

The noble Earl raised an important point about Hodeidah, and I can give him the latest statistics that I have, which precede the peace efforts. In November 2018 total commercial and humanitarian imports into Yemen met 68% of the country’s food needs but only 29% of its fuel needs. That second statistic is important, because fuel enables aid to reach the more remote parts of the country, so it is imperative that, as we have reached this agreement, the ports of Hodeidah and Salif remain operational. Yemen relies on imports to meet 90% of its basic needs such as food and fuel, coming through those ports. Returning to an earlier question about the incremental way in which peace can be sustained, retained and strengthened, it is important to see that all parties that have committed to maintaining peace do so around Hodeidah to ensure the delivery of humanitarian aid. This is a vital key channel to ensuring that humanitarian aid—food, fuel and medicines—reaches the population of Yemen.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, given that we know that there is food available in Hodeidah and surrounding towns, are the UK Government working out a plan whereby they can buy grain locally to reduce the price? As I understand it, grain is being hoarded by merchants, which is causing a large part of the famine.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises an important concern, and I will do best to write to her on that specific question, after making an assessment of the current situation on the ground. We need to look into whether individuals or groups of individuals seek to hoard supplies with a view to profiting from the humanitarian needs of their population. I hope that as talks progress, those seeking to profiteer from the conflict will be not just looked into but held to account for their actions.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, tragic though the situation in Yemen obviously is, there is also a very tragic situation in Syria, where 500,000 people have been killed and 12 million displaced, half of them outside the country. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to attempt to relieve the tremendous suffering that has occurred in that country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we all acknowledge the situation and the noble Lord is quite correct: the Syrian conflict and the tragedy we have seen unfolding there is not lost on any of us. The measures deployed by the regime mean that tragically we have seen Bashar al-Assad turn on his own population, not only in preventing humanitarian aid but in the use of chemical weapons, which we have universally, rightly and collectively condemned. We continue to work for a resolution to ensure that all communities of Syria will be rightly represented. We continue to support the talks in Geneva; unfortunately they have been stalled because the regime is not currently inclined to engage. However, there are important players in Syria as in all these conflicts—we call upon key players such as Russia, which can influence and help to reach a formal resolution to conflict. Similarly the Yemeni conflict has gone on for far too long and more can be done to bring different sides to the table.

I have seen through the efforts that have been made in Yemen that the importance of the United Nations cannot be underestimated. The UN Security Council, in the most challenging circumstances, brings the key world powers together. I believe very strongly that when it comes to Syria, resolution can be reached only through a political settlement, where all sides are rightly represented. The key body to provide that resolution is the United Nations.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, we hugely respect the Minister for the efforts that he makes, but does he believe that what he does makes a blind bit of difference to anything that is going on in Yemen?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Absolutely.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, noting all the desperate tales in questions and answers today, does the Minister agree that this war is totally counterproductive to everyone in Yemen and that it behoves everyone to get together and make peace, so that we can look for a better world for all our friends in Yemen?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Viscount. I said “Absolutely” in response to the previous question. I am a bit dismayed; I know the noble Lord very well—if my efforts, the efforts of our Government and the efforts of this House can make a difference to the life of one person, then do you know what? It is worth it.

China: Uighur Muslims

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to raise (1) with the government of China, and (2) in international fora, the treatment and conditions of Uighur people held in “re-education” camps in China.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have serious concerns about the human rights situation in Xinjiang, including the use of political re-education camps and widespread surveillance and restrictions, which are targeted particularly at Uighur Muslims. Indeed, our diplomats recently visited Xinjiang. We highlighted our serious concerns at the September UN Human Rights Council, during China’s universal periodic review in November and in my subsequent public statement. My right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Minister of State for Asia and the Pacific also raised the issue with their Chinese counterparts.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, having met Uighurs in western China, I thank the Minister for that very robust reply. Reports suggest that up to 1 million Uighurs have been incarcerated without trial in a network of sinister re-education camps: these are bristling with barbed wire and watchtowers, with torture and brainwashing that demands renouncing God and embracing Communism. People are forced to change family names, give DNA samples and eat and drink forbidden things. Is this not a return to the methods of the Cultural Revolution, when thought crime regularly led to imprisonment and worse? What are the Government doing to encourage Muslim and other heads of state to speak out, recognising that such appalling treatment of a Muslim minority will fuel resentment and radicalisation right across the globe? What are they doing to persuade Beijing of the benefits of Article 18 and pluralism, and show that this appalling treatment of the Uighur people is the last way to create integration, loyalty and harmony?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising this issue. When we talk of religious persecution and the rights of different minority communities around the world, the plight of the Uighur Muslim is often forgotten. I have certainly been aware of this. The noble Lord will know that we raised this issue in a deliberate, focused way during the universal periodic review with the specific reference to the plight of the Uighur Muslims. To answer his question directly, that has resulted in strong support at an international level, not just among Muslim leaders, but in other states, ensuring that we raise the bar on raising this issue consistently with the Chinese authorities. Indeed, as I said earlier, our diplomats have recently returned from the region. The reports they provided are quite challenging and even quite horrific in certain respects, with people being asked to remove any sign that they are of a particular faith.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the United Nations estimates that there are over 1 million people—mostly Uighur Muslims, including Kazakhs and others—in these resettlement camps. We are a member of the UN Human Rights Council; China has been a member for six years and this expires in October of next year. It is good that we have raised this issue, but what support have we received from others on the Human Rights Council, and what response has there been from China?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, it would be fair to say that at this stage the response from China on the concerns raised has been quite limited. However, this is an issue that has come to the fore and has now been raised at an international level, where perhaps it had not previously got the focus it deserves. Let me assure the noble Lord and your Lordships’ House that this remains a key priority on our human rights agenda. Specifically, we have been talking to partners at the Security Council, we raised this directly and bilaterally with the Chinese authorities and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary raised this in his direct talks with the Foreign Minister of China.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for his very strong response, but does he recognise that some of the actions we have taken on this matter have been taken in conjunction with the EU External Action Service? Of course, we also worked together with France and Germany on the case of Jamal Khashoggi in Saudi Arabia. How does he think we will be able to maximise our impact on human rights with a superpower such as China if we leave the EU?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, our stance on human rights predates our membership of the European Union. The noble Baroness is right to say that we have worked very closely with our European partners. In bilateral discussions with EU partners and beyond, the importance of human rights and the impact of raising those issues when we stand together are clear. Unity of action on these issues is clear, and it is my view that after we leave the European Union, we will continue to work very closely with our European partners on human rights issues and the benefits we have seen will continue.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I appreciate that the Government have been raising this issue with the Chinese authorities, but have they raised it with the US in order to get joint action to persuade China that human rights are a matter of international concern and not something that can simply be left to individual countries to deal with on their own?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point, but let me assure him that through our membership of the Security Council and the Human Rights Council, we raise these issues with like-minded partners but also with countries from the Islamic world—to which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, referred—to ensure that a consistent message is delivered. China is an important partner of the United Kingdom on a range of different issues, but that should not preclude our raising human rights issues clearly and unequivocally.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My noble friend’s replies have been encouraging, but I understand that the situation is even worse at present. It is now reported that the Chinese authorities are removing the children from these camps, which are full of 1 million of their nationals, and taking them away to be re-educated separately. That is totally heartless and should be a central part of his inquiry.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a disturbing turn of events, which has been much reported. Any parent of any child can relate to the issue he has raised. The issue of the Uighur Muslims in particular, but also that of all the different religious minority communities in China, is a concern. Let me assure him and your Lordships’ House that in my role as the Prime Minister’s special envoy on freedom of religion or belief, I will raise it consistently, both bilaterally and in all international fora.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will doubtless know that there are factories alongside these concentration camps that are paying very low wages. Will the Government therefore ensure that their products do not enter supply chains into this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I have been made aware of this and we are certainly reviewing the reports we have received. As I said, earlier this month senior diplomats from our mission in Beijing visited the region, and we are looking at their observations and recommendations very closely.

Nigeria: Intercommunal Violence

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Suri]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what support they are providing to the government of Nigeria in its efforts to end the violence between herders and farmers in that country; and what assessment they have made of the impact on that country of the continuance of such intercommunal violence.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we remain deeply concerned by the escalation in intercommunal violence across Nigeria, which has a devastating impact on lives and communities and is a barrier to that country’s development. Insecurity and the politicisation of the violence risk localised disruption of the 2019 elections. We urge the Nigerian Government to develop a clear strategy to address the underlying causes and we continue to develop options for how the United Kingdom could further support dialogue and peacebuilding efforts.

[Lord Suri (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his learned response. Will he agree to work with the international community, including the Commonwealth, to encourage and support the Nigerian Government to mobilise their security forces in response to violence and to develop a comprehensive plan which addresses the different factors affecting the conflict, such as population pressure, climate change and religious tensions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure my noble friend that we will continue to work with European partners and, as he rightly articulated, with other members of the Commonwealth. He will know that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister recently visited Nigeria, as did His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. These visits were also intended to strengthen the support we are giving to the Nigerian authorities and Government in addressing the violence which has gripped the country for far too long. In terms of military support, we have been engaging directly in assisting with the training of up to 30,000 members of the Nigerian security forces.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the underlying causes, as well as helping on the security side. Does he agree that one underlying cause of friction is the alarming increase in Nigeria’s population? What help are we giving the Nigerian Government with family spacing and women’s reproductive health?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to raise that issue. There are many underlying reasons for the conflict in Nigeria but its population growth and the challenges that that poses to the country’s public services, wealth and economy are well known. I assure him that we are working through a series of initiatives with the Department for International Development to provide support in health and education to address some of the challenges caused by the country’s population growth.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, following Amnesty International’s report yesterday which confirmed that more than half of the 3,600-plus deaths over the past three years of the conflict in Nigeria have occurred this year, what discussions are the Government planning with their Nigerian counterparts about the failure of their security forces? I note the Minister’s comments about the 30,000 who are being trained. Will he also comment on the negative impact that the corruption among senior officers is having on the welfare and security of their troops? Does he agree that it contributed to the recent massacre at Metele, which was not helped by the ineffectiveness in these matters of the ex-general, President Muhammadu Buhari?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right that there has been an escalation in violence and the number of deaths in Nigeria in a variety of different conflicts, and it is extremely concerning. I assure him that we have raised the issue at the highest level with President Buhari, who has not only condemned the violence but is investing government time, effort and resource to ensure that he is speaking to the regions impacted and has convened a meeting of the different states. Equally, as I said, we are working with European partners to see what policies and plans can be developed in that respect. That is work in progress. Most recently, we have been encouraged that the Nigerian Government are planning to introduce a government Bill to address some of the events that have occurred, particularly between the Fulani and the farmers in Nigeria. It will look at reforms relating to farmland and private-property protection and at ensuring that agriculture is protected. It will seek to build a positive relationship and co-operation between communities not only in different states but across the country as a whole.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, perhaps I may press the Minister further on the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, about the report published yesterday entitled Harvest of Death. It says that,

“these attacks were well planned and co-ordinated with the use of weapons like machine guns and AK47 rifles”.

Will the Minister tell us what ideology is underpinning this and who is providing these weapons? Will he also update the House on the position of the women who have been abducted, primarily by Boko Haram, and on the case of Leah Sharibu, who is being held captive by Islamic State in West Africa?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to raise those matters. On the case of Leah Sharibu, we are continuing to press the authorities for her release. There is some positive news in that we understand that more than 70 of the 110 Dapchi schoolgirls who were kidnapped have been released. We continue to implore for and work towards the release of the others, and back-channels are open. The noble Lord is also quite right to raise the issue of arms. As he will know, there is a major challenge regarding the trafficking of weapons, particularly from nearby states, including the flow-through from places such as Libya. As to the ideology, there are, as was said earlier, various factors underlying the different conflicts within Nigeria. However, it is an indisputable fact that both the Islamic State in West Africa and Boko Haram operate in certain states, and their philosophy and ideology are perverse. They are hijacking the noble faith, and it is important not just in Nigeria that we collectively work to eradicate such a philosophy.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, on Friday the most reverend Primate initiated a debate on reconciliation; and, of course, the two key elements of the very complex situation in Nigeria are security and development. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about how DfID and the Foreign Office are working together to ensure that we actually have the strategies to deliver on reconciliation and development?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord but would add a third element in terms of delivery strategies, regarding security. On all three fronts—whether it is our work through the Ministry of Defence or through diplomacy and direct contact with the Government, and he is right to raise the important work of DfID—our work in Nigeria includes a strong focus on, for example, tackling inequality and exclusion, increasing employment and livelihood opportunities, and improving governance at the local level. We are working across all the different areas to ensure that, as we invest in Nigeria, we work with it and look to build not only its key economic sectors but the key elements of its justice system and governance.

Rohingya Refugees

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the situation of Rohingya refugees and the likelihood of their safe return to Burma.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, conditions in the camps in Bangladesh have improved but remain difficult for the Rohingya community. The United Kingdom has provided £129 million of assistance since August 2017. We welcome Bangladesh’s continuing generosity in hosting the Rohingya community and its commitment to the principle of voluntariness on repatriations. I agree with the UN Refugee Agency’s assessment that conditions are not in place for safe and sustainable returns, and I assure the noble Lord that the UK will continue to press for independent monitoring by all UN agencies.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Will he join me in thanking the Department for International Development for providing support to the most oppressed people in the world? Is he aware that last Thursday the US House of Representatives passed a non-binding resolution, by 394 votes to one, identifying crimes against the Rohingya in Myanmar as genocide? Will Her Majesty’s Government support the indictment of the Burmese generals and civilian leaders responsible for this genocide in the International Criminal Court?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the earlier point, I thank the noble Lord for his remarks. It is true that we can all be proud of the role that the Department for International Development has played over many years on behalf of those people who are suffering the worst crises, including humanitarian crises and the ethnic cleansing that we have seen of the Rohingya community in Burma. On the issue of Congress, I am aware of that vote—but, as the noble Lord will know, it is a long-standing position that we regard attributing genocide as an issue for judicial authorities. However, the United Kingdom is playing a key role in gathering evidence to ensure that the perpetrators of these crimes can be brought to justice.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, 700,000 Rohingya have now fled to Bangladesh and there are reports of villages being burned and horrific human rights violations including the burning of homes, schools and mosques; the deliberate burning of people to death inside their homes; mass rape; torture; execution without trial; the blocking of aid; and similar offences being conducted against the Shan and the Kachin as well. So is the noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, not right to call for this, regardless of the vote in the American Congress, to be referred to the International Criminal Court? Why is the United Kingdom not laying a resolution before the Security Council calling for a global arms embargo on the Burmese Army, with targeted sanctions against Senior General Min Aung Hlaing and calling for Daw Suu, Aung San Suu Kyi, to speak out forcefully against these horrific offences?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord has raised various issues. First, he is quite right to point out that, as your Lordships’ House may be aware, there has not yet been a UN resolution. However, I assure him that we are speaking to all international partners, including those on the Security Council, to find a way forward on this. He will be aware that there are particular perspectives, most notably from the Chinese, which would, in our view, result in any ICC referral being blocked. We believe in the institution of the International Criminal Court and in its reforms, but any referral to it should carry full support. Looking at what has been debated and agreed in the Security Council over the last 12 months, thus far we have kept unanimity. That remains a primary objective, but I assure the noble Lord that we keep in mind the issue of all persecuted minorities—in Kachin and Shan provinces as well. We will ensure that evidence is collected and the perpetrators ultimately brought to justice in a local or international court.

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, there seems to be no prospect of the safe return of Rohingya refugees to Burma. This will remain so until we accept the full findings and recommendations of the United Nations fact-finding mission. Why are we so reluctant to do so? Does the Minister accept that two issues need to be resolved? The first and central issue is citizenship being denied to Rohingya refugees. Their citizenship is objected to by Aung San Suu Kyi, who should know better. The second is the attempt to secure referral to the International Criminal Court, which has so far stalled. Surely we cannot accept refugees being returned to Burma until those who have perpetrated such vile crimes against them are brought to justice.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Lord. On the issue of the fact-finding mission, he will know that we were one of the co-sponsors of that resolution in March 2017, and we agree with many of the mission’s findings. On the issue of safe return, I assure the noble Lord that there was talk of an agreement having been reached between Burma and Bangladesh in November this year for returns to start. However, we are very clear that they cannot start until certain conditions are met. First and foremost, they must be voluntary. The safety and security of the refugees is paramount. We have raised that, and I met with the Information Minister of Bangladesh on Thursday and again gained that very reassurance.

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that, given the extreme unlikelihood of all the world’s 62 million refugees and IDPs being able to return home, once the United Kingdom has left the European Union we will be in a far better position to decide who to have here? I ask particularly that some of the Rohingya refugees, as well as some others globally, should be given entry into the United Kingdom once we are in in a better position to make our own decisions.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the history of the United Kingdom as a place which grants support to refugees from all over the world predates our membership of the European Union and will remain after Brexit. I pride myself on being in the Government of a country which over the years has stood up in support of refugees, internationally and in the UK. This continues today and will continue tomorrow.

[The Lord Bishop of Winchester]

My Lords, the diocese of Winchester has had a link with Burma/Myanmar since the late 19th century. This gateway state to Asia is therefore of great interest to the praying Christians of the diocese. Will the Minister confirm what action Her Majesty’s Government have taken to ensure the guaranteed security of existing internally displaced persons in Rakhine state and of any refugees who voluntarily return to Myanmar?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate raises an important issue about ensuring the security and safety of those who are in Burma. We continue to raise this directly with the civilian and military authorities. He will be aware that one of the first visits that the Foreign Secretary made on his appointment was to Burma to raise the very concerns that the right reverend Prelate highlighted.

On the safe return of refugees, I made it clear in answer to the previous question that the United Kingdom stands by the Rohingya community and supports their needs in Bangladesh. They should not return until we can guarantee their safety and security—and, above all, their return should be voluntary.

Ukraine

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, for initiating this timely debate. I also thank all noble Lords for their insightful and expert contributions.

I am sure we all agree that the starting point for our consideration of Ukraine is our unwavering support for its sovereignty, a point made by all noble Lords. Let me assure the Committee that we stand strongly with Ukraine on its independence and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders. Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea was a grave violation of international law and, as we all know, Russian-backed separatists continue to wage a conflict in eastern Ukraine that has claimed more than 10,000 lives and injured a further 25,000 people. According to the United Nations, that conflict has displaced around 1.5 million Ukrainians.

The toll in human suffering is enormous, which is why the UK is delivering £8.7 million of humanitarian aid to the most vulnerable people affected by the conflict. More than 2.3 million people are in need of assistance within government-controlled and non-government-controlled areas of eastern Ukraine. DfID is providing direct assistance through grants and other training, to ensure that economic opportunities can be leveraged fully in the interests of the citizens of Ukraine. We are also providing indirect assistance as the largest contributor within the international community to the Red Cross appeal for Ukraine.

Several noble Lords raised the issue of working together with Europe. The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, spoke from his great insight on this, as did my noble friend Lord Risby and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. I draw the Committee’s attention to the Statement made by the Prime Minister today on the European Council. She said that during the Council’s discussions:

“First, we expressed our utmost concern over the escalation we have seen at the Kerch Strait and the Sea of Azov, and over Russia’s continued violations of international law. We agreed to roll over economic sanctions against Russia, and we stand ready further to strengthen our support, in particular for the affected areas of Ukraine. Secondly, we … agreed to work together on tackling the spread of deliberate, large-scale and systematic disinformation”—


my noble friend Lord Risby mentioned that—

“including as part of hybrid warfare”.

Let me therefore again assure noble Lords that, not just through our membership of the European Union, when it comes to sanctions and collaboration on common areas of interest—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the latest wave of Russian aggression and provocation against Ukraine, which many noble Lords mentioned, saw Ukrainian vessels and their crew fired on, rammed and forcibly seized as they sought to enter the Sea of Azov on 25 November. This was the first time the Russian military had avowedly fired on Ukrainian forces. It underscored Russia’s willingness to escalate tensions in and around the Black Sea with no regard for its obligations under UNCLOS or Ukraine’s rights under the 2003 bilateral agreement with Russia.

My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary condemned in the strongest terms Russia’s actions, which were also met with a robust chorus of disapproval through the UN Security Council, NATO, the EU—as the Prime Minister said in her Statement—and the OSCE. The G7 also came together to issue a statement calling out Russia for its action against the Ukrainian vessels and crewmen.

The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Wallace, and my noble friends Lord Bowness and Lord Risby, among others, raised the issue of the Black Sea naval incident. We remain deeply concerned about the welfare of detained Ukrainian soldiers. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to Foreign Minister Klimkin on 29 November and reaffirmed the UK’s solidarity and support. I can confirm that the Ministry of Defence is stepping up military assistance to Ukraine through the Operation ORBITAL training mission. My right honourable friend the Defence Secretary will visit Ukraine in the near future. As he has already announced, we are also deploying HMS “Echo” to the Black Sea. The date of that deployment will be announced shortly.

Responsibility lies with Russia to de-escalate the situation by releasing the 24 Ukrainian servicemen and three vessels it has detained and by respecting free passage for all vessels through the Kerch Strait. We are discussing concrete measures, including sanctions, with our international partners, so that we can collectively demonstrate to the Russian regime that its illegal actions will have a cost. The European Council last week also made clear that the EU stands by its measures to strengthen its support for Ukraine.

My noble friend Lord Risby and the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, also asked about Nord Stream 2. We do not believe Nord Stream 2 is necessary and are concerned that its construction is harmful to European interests and to Ukraine. British officials regularly discuss this with the German Government and other stakeholders, including to highlight UK concerns at the impact of the project on gas transit through Ukraine. We continue to support initiatives that strengthen and diversify European gas supply.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, rightly raised the issue of martial law, and I agree with him. Concerns have been expressed about the decision by President Poroshenko to implement martial law following the Black Sea incident. We must all remember which country has created this crisis. Russia has put extreme pressure on Ukraine, not only forcibly violating its sovereignty but subjecting its people to attacks—including cyberattacks, as my noble friend Lord Risby stated. I assure the Committee that we continue to work with the Ukrainian Government and while martial law is now being implemented across the country, we have been reassured that its application has been time-limited to 30 days. We also welcome the President’s assurances that martial law will not affect presidential and parliamentary elections planned for next year, which was a question the noble Lord raised.

The sad reality is that incidents such as the confrontation in the Black Sea demonstrate how Russia continues to work to undermine Ukraine’s stability rather than to support it. It is important that the international community continues to work together with resolve and unity in its purpose, and we must call out these flagrant violations of international rules and norms. That is precisely what Her Majesty’s Government are doing. The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, raised the Minsk agreements and asked how long it will be before the Government look at alternatives and whether Russia and Ukraine should resolve matters bilaterally. Our view is that the Minsk process is not making progress because Russia has shown no interest in de-escalation with or without a clear road map. As the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Wallace, said, the only viable path towards peace is for all parties to meet their obligations under the agreement and work urgently to achieve a full and sustained ceasefire across the line of contact. Ukraine took a difficult political step in October to renew the law on special status for the Donbass, as required by the Minsk agreements. In contrast, Russia continues to frustrate the process, including by supporting illegitimate elections on 11 November which undermine the agreements.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, raised sanctions linked to Russian transgressions. They are one of the clearest signals that the international community can send to Russia to change course. I assure the noble Lord that that is why we have been clear to Russia that sanctions relief can come only when the Minsk agreements are fully implemented. Until then, the sanctions imposed in response to Russia’s actions remain in place. We have no indication that Russia is serious about UN involvement in the Donbass. Russia has not engaged further on the suggestion of UN peacekeepers. Indeed, as I said, its recent action supporting illegitimate elections in the Donbass in November was a serious violation.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

Is there a prospect of the sanctions being intensified or will they inevitably unravel when they come to a potential rollover?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, at the start of my contribution I mentioned the Statement that the Prime Minister made that the sanctions would be rolled over and strengthened, particularly with the continued collaboration of our European partners.

Several questions were asked about UK assistance and I will seek to cover some of them in the time that remains. I assure noble Lords that more progress has been made in the past four years than in the previous 23 years combined, notably in reforming the energy and banking sectors. Crucially, progress has been achieved in tackling corruption through the procurement of electronic systems, building anti-corruption institutions and launching an electronic income declaration system for officials. The UK Government hosted the Ukraine reform conference in July 2017. Indeed, it was one of my first acts when I joined the Foreign Office. I recall visiting Ukraine in 2014 as a Communities and Local Government Minister to help it on local governance methods.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the impact on the economy of east Ukraine. The consequences of recent Russian actions have been quite severe, particularly on trade through the Kerch Strait. Cities situated on the Sea of Azov have seen the economic throughput in their ports reduced in the past nine months, Mariupol by 43% and Berdyansk by 30%.

My noble friend Lord Bowness, among others, raised the £35 million of UK assistance to Ukraine. This continues, including £8.7 million in DfID humanitarian funding and £40 million through the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, acknowledged. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that our wide-ranging programmes include technical assistance and have had a positive impact on the business climate. Headline achievements include the establishment of an intellectual property rights court, more professional management of public finances and support for small and medium-sized enterprises, a point I know will resonate with all noble Lords. I will highlight two projects that have made a real difference to people in the conflict-affected communities: a mine clearance project, and our support for valuable work to raise awareness and improve the response to sexual and gender-based violence in Ukraine.

My noble friend Lord Bowness also asked about the role of the OSCE special monitoring mission. The UK makes one of the largest personnel contributions to the mission, and I assure him that we will continue to support the continuation of its vital mission in discussions at the OSCE. My noble friend Lord Risby asked about sending NATO troops to Romania and Bulgaria. In the interests of time, I will write to him on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, raised the issue of stepping back from the Normandy process. France and Germany are of course leading this process, as he knows, but I assure him that we continue to support their efforts to make progress on the Minsk agreements.

In conclusion, in terms of souls lost and lives fractured, potential thwarted and hope dimmed, Ukraine continues to pay a heavy price for daring to exercise its sovereign rights to look to the West. The Ukrainian people are suffering an illegal, immoral and unjust punishment meted out by a neighbour that uses external force to mask geopolitical and economic insecurities, and to unite its own population. Russia’s illegal and aggressive strategy not only threatens Ukraine but is a clear challenge to the rules-based international system and to the will of the international community. In thanking the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, for initiating this debate, I assure all noble Lords that the UK Government remain committed and will continue to work collaboratively and collectively to ensure that the resolve of the international community remains undiminished, and that we will continue to work bilaterally with the Ukrainian Government for a better future for all Ukrainians.

[Viscount Waverley]

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, does he think it worthy of note to agree that it could take up to 10 years to clear the mines in eastern Ukraine—which should give some indication of the true gravity of the situation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I have noted the noble Viscount’s comment, but the mine clearance project is one of the successes that we have seen through the investments made.

Sudan and South Sudan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and declare an interest as recorded in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, through our engagement with senior members of the Governments of Sudan and South Sudan, the UK continues to make clear that any detentions for political reasons are unacceptable, and that any detainees must be treated in accordance with international standards and have access to legal representation and to their families. The Governments of Sudan and South Sudan must respect their people’s rights to freedom of expression, opinion and association.

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with the Minister’s Answer. The problem is that the leaders of both Sudan and South Sudan have this year declared that they will release political prisoners, but they still retain a significant number. In the case of South Sudan, this was a condition of the peace deal signed by its President. These detainees are still being held without charge, many in dreadful conditions. One is a personal friend. They are being denied access. We have committed this year to address humanitarian aid. We have committed to fund £50 million for Sudan and £130 million for South Sudan. Surely it should be a condition of this aid that they abide by the signature they have made to release these political prisoners, who are still being held without charge. They need to release them immediately. It is a blatant disregard for human rights, as we have just been discussing.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. I am aware of the facts of the case he mentioned. I assure him that detentions for political purposes are always unacceptable. As he rightly said, over the past year there has been an increasing number of detentions, particularly in South Sudan and Sudan. The UK Government have made clear our concerns both in public and in private. The noble Lord makes important points on the humanitarian support we are providing to South Sudan and Sudan. I assure him that we prioritise the importance of freedom of expression across all elements of society in our bilateral discussions, as I did myself when I visited Sudan recently.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, the agreement signed between the parties to the conflict in December 2017 stated that they shall release to the International Committee of the Red Cross without delay any prisoners of war and all political detainees. Despite the reiteration of this agreement in June 2018, the Government of South Sudan has failed to comply, as we know. Does the UK agree with Amnesty International that the Government of South Sudan must co-operate with the African Union to establish the hybrid court agreed between them to ensure that those responsible for these abuses can be brought to justice as soon as possible?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. He will be pleased to know that this morning I was with Kate Allen of Amnesty International as part of today’s celebrations on the declaration of human rights. The points he made are pertinent. We continue to hold them accountable on that very basis.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, a representative of the Foreign Office said at an open meeting that the UK Government’s policy regarding Sudan had changed from sticks to carrots. The regime in Khartoum is enjoying munching those carrots, but on this Human Rights Day I ask the Minister: what conditions are the UK Government applying to the Government of Sudan to justify those carrots, particularly regarding the arrest and detention of human rights activists, often with torture, including Mohamed Boshi, who was forcibly removed while in exile in Cairo and is detained in Khartoum’s notorious Kober prison simply for being a member of an opposition political party—despite the fact that, in April, President Bashir issued a decree to release all political detainees?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Baroness that I visited Sudan recently and did not go equipped with any carrots. It was quite a candid conversation concerning priorities of human rights, including press freedoms. Civil society organisations were present. I conducted a round table, meeting with one of the senior vice-presidents, and we had some productive outcomes. For example, we will now be pen-holders at the Human Rights Council, and will use that as a means to push further reforms that are required on the ground. The detention of political prisoners, as the noble Baroness and others have made clear, is unacceptable.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate the Minister’s comments and I know that the UK Government have been putting pressure on the authorities, but the case of Peter Biar Ajak is concerning. He has had 135 days in detention with very limited access to legal aid, or even to his family. The case needs to be heard publicly, and I would appreciate the Minister making clear to the authorities that we want a clear understanding that he will be given proper access to legal aid and representation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I note very carefully what has been said by the noble Lord and others in this respect, and I can assure noble Lords that, when it comes to political detainees, the very points he has outlined are paramount in our direct engagement with the Governments—be it with South Sudan, as in this instance, or with Sudan—and that we will continue to ensure that the right legal access and support is provided to all political prisoners.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on this 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, can the Minister tell us which of the 30 articles in the universal declaration the Republic of the Sudan is not in breach of? Given that some 2 million people were displaced and some 200,000 to 300,000 killed in Darfur, and that Field Marshal Omar al-Bashir—referred to by my noble friend Lady Cox a moment ago—is indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity, how can we justify continuing and trying to step up trade with the Government of Sudan, and what are we doing to bring him to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On that final point, as the noble Lord and all your Lordships are aware, he is indicted. The Government do not engage with him directly. However, we are looking—as I said myself during my visit—to build support for civil society. I can tell the noble Lord that there is one shimmer of hope, one silver lining to that dark cloud which still hangs over Sudan. I found that on one issue very close to his heart and to mine—the issue of freedom of religion or belief—what I saw on the ground of the relationships between the leaders I met from the Christian and Muslim communities was very positive. Indeed, in some of the challenges the Christian communities have in running their schools, particularly with the governor of Khartoum, the imams from the Muslim community were acting as their advocates.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister outline what he explained to the officials whom he met in Khartoum? What was the response that he got from them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It was not just officials that we met in Khartoum; we met government representatives as well. As I have said, the vice-president and Foreign Minister were among them. One of the objectives I had was to ensure that we brought focus to the human rights record of Sudan, and I was therefore pleased that, as an outcome of my visit, they agreed for us to become pen-holders at the Human Rights Council.

Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare my interests as set out in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the British Government are deeply concerned about the severity of violations of freedom of religion or belief across many parts of the world. I am grateful to the APPG for producing such a comprehensive report highlighting the scale of the issue. We are marking International Human Rights Day with activities in the UK and overseas. Indeed, earlier today I hosted an event at the Foreign Office to mark the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his Answer. Although the APPG commentary deals with violations of freedom of religion or belief, International Human Rights Day allows us to draw attention to how interconnected many human rights are. Women from religious minorities in countries outlined in the report, such as Saudi Arabia, India and Myanmar, often face double discrimination for being not only women but from a religious minority. Can the Minister outline whether Her Majesty’s Government, in their country strategies on freedom of religion or belief, or in their research, look at gender discrimination alongside violations of freedom of religion or belief, which is the only way to help these groups of vulnerable women?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am grateful to my noble friend for her work on the particular report and she is right to point out the important link between freedom of religion or belief and ensuring the rights of women and girls across the world. I am pleased to inform her that we continue to prioritise the issue of girls’ and women’s rights across all parts of the human rights agenda and all areas of British foreign policy. She will also be aware of our commitment to ensure 12 years of quality education for every girl across the world.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, on the subject of women’s rights, the Minister will be very familiar with Asia Bibi’s case. Surely there could not be a clearer case for asylum. There are rumours that the FCO and the Home Office wanted to grant her asylum, but it was blocked at higher levels. Is that so? When her case is considered again in January, will the United Kingdom Government be offering asylum if they possibly can?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Baroness will be aware from her time as a Minister in Her Majesty’s Government, we do not refer to specific cases. However, I can assure her that rumours are exactly that—rumours. She should not base any question on those. We are continuing to work with international partners to ensure that Asia Bibi’s safety and security is paramount. I can also assure her that, along with the Pakistani Government and our international partners, we are doing our utmost to ensure that that priority is not forgotten.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that our ritual listing of human rights abuses around the world is a little hypocritical when we turn a blind eye to human rights abuses carried out by trading partners in the Middle East and elsewhere? What sort of country are we becoming when a government Minister can say in public without criticism, “When we talk trade with China, we should not raise issues of human rights”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that I do not share that sentiment. This is important to me. I am proud of Britain remaining a bastion of human rights historically, currently and in the future, ensuring that we, along with our partners and friends, raise issues where there are human rights abuses. Sometimes that is done discreetly and effectively; sometimes we call them out publicly. That continues to be the case.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the defence of religious belief is paramount but, equally, that we should not go down the route of imposing religious belief and thereby using it to deny people their human rights in various parts of the world, not least in the 36 Commonwealth countries where religion is used as an excuse to deny lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people their rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I agree with the noble Lord on the issue of forcing anyone to believe anything. My role is not just that of freedom of religion envoy; I am the envoy for freedom of religion or belief. “Or belief” is an important part of my role, ensuring that discrimination against anyone, including the LGBT community, is kept at the forefront of the agenda. Indeed, as part of our celebrations of 70 years since the charter, we announced that we will co-chair the ERC with Argentina from June 2019.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, it is good to mark the significant progress we have made in the 70th year of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but it is worrying that in many parts of the world those human right are being questioned and pushed back, even by some of our allies. What action are the Government taking to stand with Michelle Bachelet, the UN human rights chief, to “push back” on the push-back?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate is right to raise this issue. On reflection, 70 years since the declaration, here we are in 2018, seeing abuses of human rights across the piece. We have talked about gender, faith and LGBT rights, which remain important priorities for Her Majesty’s Government. We are working closely with the human rights commissioner, Michelle Bachelet. I have met her twice already, as has the Foreign Secretary, to reiterate our strong support for her priorities and agenda.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I agree completely with the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, about the connection between human rights and freedom of religious belief. When giving the Minister responsibility for this matter, the Prime Minister said that we would work with all societies and countries, particularly civil society. What discussion is taking place with faith groups about the issue raised by my noble friend? How can we get people to understand that human rights are fundamental across all groups?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is again right to raise that. On working with civil society groups, he will be aware that we recently announced £12 million of funding, for which I am grateful to colleagues in the Department for International Development, in support of freedom of religion or belief initiatives to help civil society organisations on the ground in some of the most challenging parts of the world, exactly as the noble Lord articulated. LGBT rights, as well as other rights and gender equality, are an important priority. To give him another practical example, next year will mark the anniversary of my noble friend Lord Hague launching this initiative as the Prime Minister’s representative on preventing sexual violence in conflict. We will mark that by inviting faith leaders to stand together with those of no belief to prioritise the humanity that prevails in standing up for victims of sexual violence in conflict, because no religion, faith or belief sanctions it.

Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in the debate. It is a very poignant end to the day. Indeed, I was reminded of that as I was leaving the Foreign Office by a UNICEF advert focusing on the grave humanitarian situation in Yemen. As a father and a human being, I cannot help but be moved into ensuring that we do our part, both politically and on the humanitarian front. I therefore join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Luce, for tabling this debate. I appreciate the keen personal interest that he has taken in the conflict, based also on his family ties to the country. Before responding to some of the specific questions raised, I want to share the sentiment expressed by all noble Lords that we have sat back and let this conflict go on for far too long. The need is to act. I hope that through some of the responses that I give today I will provide noble Lords with assurance in that respect.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and other noble Lords for focusing on the humanitarian support that the UK Government have provided—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned it, as did my noble friend Lady Helic and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who spoke from the great experience of his time at the United Nations.

We all acknowledge that what is unfolding in Yemen is now the largest humanitarian crisis in the world. The United Nations estimates that almost 80% of the population are in need of humanitarian assistance, including nearly 8.5 million people at risk of starvation. Last year, there were 1 million suspected cases of cholera, the largest outbreak in modern history—several noble Lords alluded to that.

I assure noble Lords, as several of them have acknowledged, that the UK is at the forefront of the response. Since 2015, we have provided more than £570 million in bilateral humanitarian support, including an additional £170 million this financial year, as we announced in April, to meet the immediate food needs of more than 2.5 million Yemenis.

I say in answer to a specific question from the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, that UK aid has supported Yemen’s first ever cholera vaccination campaign. It was completed in May and helped to protect more than 450,000 men, women and children from that deadly disease. In August, we launched a further vaccination campaign around Hodeidah and other parts of Yemen aimed at more than 500,000 people.

As many noble Lords have acknowledged, the conflict has been led by the Saudi coalition in Yemen. However, we should also recognise that the conflict is the result of a Houthi insurgency which overthrew Yemen’s legitimate Government. The coalition became involved at the request of President Hadi, who had been forced to flee. As noble Lords have identified, Saudi Arabia has been deeply involved in the conflict, but we recognise its right to protect its national security from attacks, including missiles launched from Houthi bases at Saudi Arabia.

However, I acknowledge and respect the concerns expressed by noble Lords about violations of international humanitarian law, points on which were raised rightly by my noble friend Lady Helic among others. We are aware of such violations and take them very seriously. In Houthi-controlled Yemen, we also have deep concerns about aid not being allowed through to those in dire need, and we have pressed for improvements.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about US intelligence sharing with Saudi Arabia. I am sure that she will accept that that is a matter for the United States and not directly for the United Kingdom. On her specific questions about UK arms exports, I am aware that the European partners have halted issuing licences. We remain confident that our assessment of licences is consistent with the current criteria. As the noble Baroness and other noble Lords will be aware, export licences are assessed against consolidated EU and national criteria. Our key test for exporting to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is whether there is a clear risk that the export might be used in serious contravention of international humanitarian law. We continue to focus on that issue. I assure the noble Baroness that the MoD monitors allegations of violations of international humanitarian law arising from coalition airstrikes. The information gathered is used to form an overall view on its approach and attitude to international humanitarian law.

Saudi Arabia has now publicly acknowledged that it investigates reports of alleged violations of international humanitarian law through the joint incidents assessment team and that it acts on lessons learned. To date, the joint incidents assessment team has issued more than 90 statements from its investigations. I assure noble Lords that our test for our continued defence exports in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that that a licence might be used to commit a serious violation. I have listened very carefully to the concerns raised during this debate and I assure noble Lords that we will keep this situation under careful and continual review.

My noble friend Lady Helic raised the issue of the targeting chain within Saudi Arabia. The UK’s role in the Saudi targeting chain is limited to providing advice, information and assistance to help Saudi Arabia respond to the threat from Houthi missiles. I hope my noble friend recognises the limits of what I can say in that respect, but this is a very limited form of support that we extend to Saudi Arabia.

There seems little doubt that the longer the conflict goes on, as several noble Lords acknowledged, the more appalling the humanitarian situation becomes. Noble Lords have rightly said that peace talks must be the top priority: there can be no military solution to this conflict. That point was made very clearly by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. The Yemeni parties must also engage constructively and in good faith to overcome obstacles and find a political solution: that is the only way to end the conflict, bring long-term stability to Yemen and address the humanitarian crisis. I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom has played, and continues to play, a leading role in diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution. We have provided, for example, £1.68 million to the office of the UN special envoy, Martin Griffiths, to bolster his capacity to facilitate the peace process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, talked about recent efforts. The UK has brought together the US, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and the UN to find a peaceful, lasting solution to the conflict. The most recent meeting of the quad was on 27 September at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, spoke of the UK’s position as a pen-holder. The UK proposed and co-ordinated a UN Security Council presidential statement, which I am sure that noble Lords recognise and which was agreed on 15 March 2018. The statement builds on a previous text from June of last year in its expression of deep concern about the humanitarian situation in Yemen. It calls for all parties—a point made by several noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Collins—to agree steps towards a ceasefire. It welcomes the new UN special envoy and recognises the humanitarian imperative, calling for a vaccination programme, which I alluded to.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about our discussions with the United States on the ceasefire. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to Secretary of State Pompeo about Yemen and specifically raised these issues last week. I assure the noble Baroness and all noble Lords that UK and US officials are working very closely together in New York on further action we will take at the Security Council. I assure noble Lords that we strongly support special envoy Martin Griffiths’ extensive efforts, including in trying to bring together all representatives, including the Yemeni Government and the Houthis, for consultations in Geneva in September. The UN, the UK and other states tried very hard to address the Houthis’ concerns but their delegation did not attend.

I fully accept that more needs to be done to address the catastrophic consequences for the Yemeni people. Now, for the first time, there appears to be a window, as noble Lords acknowledged. I am sure that all noble Lords welcome the recent intervention by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary when he visited the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia on Monday to build support in the UN Security Council to bolster the UN-led process—indeed, I was in the UAE at that time. This followed his meeting with UN special envoy Martin Griffiths last month. The Foreign Secretary also had useful discussions in Saudi Arabia and in the UAE. We welcome the recent announcements, because of his intervention and efforts, and the Saudi assurances on the transportation of Houthi wounded from Yemen. I believe that there are 50 being taken out who require specific medical attention. This was a precondition for Houthi attendance at the next round of talks in Stockholm and we continue to urge all parties to engage with UN special envoy Martin Griffiths on the proposed political talks in Stockholm later this month. Let me assure the noble Lord that we will continue to work specifically on that at the UN Security Council.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, asked about the visit of Yemeni personnel last week. If I may, I will write to him in that respect. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, also asked about the UK’s response to the letter from the Yemen Safe Passage Group. Briefly, in response we continue to call on all sides, including the Houthis, to allow unhindered humanitarian and commercial access in and throughout Yemen, through the UN Security Council and direct messaging to the parties. We have successfully lobbied for the Government of Yemen to lift decree 75, which has slowed the import of food into the country. I am specifically pleased about the steps we have taken around Hodeidah. While the ceasefire is fragile there, it continues to show dividends in access to fuel and humanitarian aid.

In thanking all noble Lords—and as the Minister for the UN—let me end on a point about the UN Security Council. We are progressing constructively with all partners at the UN in New York. As the Prime Minister herself made clear on 31 October, a Yemen-wide ceasefire will have an effect on the ground only if it is backed by a political deal, which we all recognise, between all parties. A cessation of hostilities is an essential first step towards alleviating the suffering of the Yemeni people. This must be uppermost in everyone’s minds as we seek to put in place a longer-term solution. I am sure that we will return to this issue. Let me assure noble Lords that I will seek to update them on the initiatives and progress we are making on the Security Council, and that the UK will continue to influence the push for a collaborative approach to finding a lasting and political solution in our bilateral engagement with all parties and through our efforts at the UN in New York.

House adjourned at 6.16 pm.

Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to (1) promote freedom of religion or belief, and (2) mark International Freedom of Religion or Belief Day on 27 October.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister’s special envoy on freedom of religion or belief, I am leading the work with our diplomatic network to achieve an increased focus in our efforts on this agenda across government. We are seeking to effect change in key countries and to promote respect in education, supported by £1 million of funding. In this respect, I am also working across Whitehall to bring together ministerial colleagues from DfID, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the Department for Education, and defence. We are marking the international day with an event, which I am delighted to be co-hosting with my noble friend Lord Bates, on 7 November.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. He holds an important position as the Prime Minister’s special envoy. Can he explain what progress has been made in, for example, providing religious literacy training to departments such as the Department for International Development, so that it can cope better with some of the challenges it faces in countries such as China, Pakistan and Nigeria, where there are repeated assaults on the idea of freedom of religion or belief?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises a significant point about literacy in the important area of freedom of religion or belief. You need only cast your eye around the world to see how freedom of religion or belief is being usurped in many countries, including some of those named by my noble friend. With regard to increasing our focus on this, the noble Baroness will be aware of the work done through the diplomatic network, and I am already speaking to colleagues across DfID, and in the Ministry of Defence, to ensure that those deployed to our international posts are well versed in the local challenges on this important priority.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, has the Minister noted the 40% increase in religious hate crimes in the United Kingdom between 2017 and 2018? In that context, does he feel it appropriate that Tommy Robinson was entertained in the Lords by a Member of this House?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the second point, I do not think that it is right. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves as a House, and I am sure that the House authorities have been alerted to the presence of the said individual. The views he expresses are not just appalling for the community he targets—we are all, rightly, appalled. It is important that we review our procedures to ensure that individuals such as Tommy Robinson do not enter the heart of democracy. I am minded, however, to defer that to the House authorities.

On the important issue of rising religious hatred and hate crime, I think we all stand united against it. We have seen an increase in anti-Semitism. I have spoken out very strongly on that, and I think that I represent many in this House in speaking out, whether it is against anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, anti-Muslim hatred or any form of religious hate crime. Regrettably and tragically, there are people in our society who target us—those who have spoken out—for that very reason. It is important that we unite against this and that a clear and unequivocal statement comes from this House, from the Houses of Parliament and from the country as a whole, to those who seek to divide us: “We are united against you, and we will defeat you”.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that each and every one of us in this House shares the responsibility to ensure good racial and interfaith relationships, and that this House has a specific responsibility to ensure that its own estates are not used in that way?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure, as I said earlier to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that the House authorities have taken note. I also agree, however, with the premise of the noble Baroness that each of us has a responsibility. We need to raise the bar: no longer should it be about tolerance; it is about respect and understanding, and that is what we should be promoting.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that freedom of religion and belief is an absolute right, and that it would become more of a reality if we, and other leading countries, put aside considerations of trade and so-called strategic interests in its pursuit?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The strategic relationships that we have around the world are important—indeed, the Statement I made yesterday reflected that—but I assure the noble Lord, and your Lordships’ House, that human rights in the broad sense are an important consideration and priority in the relationships we build across the world.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

Will my noble friend the Minister work with FCO and DfID country heads to produce a country-specific strategy for promoting freedom of religion and belief?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend makes a very practical and useful suggestion, and I am looking at my new role to see whether we can provide that kind of country detail.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I strongly associate myself and the rest of these Benches with the remarks of the Minister in respect of the person who attended this place last night. We strongly support his attempts to stop that kind of behaviour. We do all have a responsibility. One of the things that happened at CHOGM was a conference at Lambeth Palace, involving religious leaders and politicians. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about what progress has been made since CHOGM? It is not simply a matter of Governments; it is about all community leaders and faith leaders taking the initiative.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point, and we of course welcomed the progress at CHOGM. I have continued to work closely with Lambeth Palace and other faith leaders as well. I am working closely with the Vatican, through Archbishop Gallagher, and I recently met His Highness the Aga Khan. We are looking across the piece with leaders from different faith communities, and from humanist societies as well, to ensure that we can work together as one on this important priority.

Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of the statements made by the United States on the future of the INF treaty. However, it is important to recognise that the United States has not formally withdrawn from the treaty. While the treaty remains in force the United Kingdom will continue to support it and, in particular, to press Russia to return to full and verifiable compliance. We, of course, want to see the treaty continue to stand, but that requires all parties to abide by it and at the moment one side is in violation. Russia needs to respect its obligations as this treaty has made a valuable contribution to European security for over 30 years.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the greatest existential threat to our people and nation is a miscalculation during a period of increasing tension, leading to an ill-thought-through use of a nuclear weapon. Indeed, Putin’s strategy of de-escalation posits early use of a nuclear weapon. The repudiation of the INF treaty—and let us face it, these weapons can hit us all in Europe but they cannot hit America—and the breakdown of US/Russian relations bring this existential threat to our nation, the only existential threat that is there, much closer. I think all of us should be extremely concerned.

Will we bend every sinew to try to get Trump and Putin in the margins of the number of meetings that they are having over the next few months to relook at a whole raft of limitation treaties and possibly renegotiate an intermediate-range treaty, a ballistic treaty and also an arms reduction set of treaties? Only in that way will we ease back on this risk of an existential threat to our people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks from great experience in this respect. I assure him that the United Kingdom will do all within its power to ensure that this treaty is sustained and strengthened. But it is a bilateral treaty between the United States and Russia and one party—Russia—has not complied. The other positive note in this respect is that, as the noble Lord will know, at the last NATO meeting in July all NATO partners stressed the importance of sustaining this treaty. It has kept the peace for more than 30 years, and that is evidence of its importance.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, by leaving the treaty the US has no way of pressuring Russia into compliance. The Minister is right about the need to ensure compliance. With the New START treaty on strategic arms due to end in 2021, we could be left with no limits on the arsenals of nuclear states for the first time since 1972. So my noble friend is absolutely right to raise this critical issue. Will the Minister tell us what conversations we had with our ally the United States and whether the United States consulted any of its European allies on this question before making this announcement?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned the New START treaty. It is important to recognise that major strides have been made in de-escalation and the destruction of missiles. That treaty remains on the books. Both sides are complying with it, and we will continue to work to ensure that it is sustained. On this treaty, we all heard the US President make the announcement. The issue of Russia’s non-compliance was not new to the NATO alliance. It was reflected in the communiqué in July. The noble Lord will also be aware that subsequent to the discussions a member of the US Administration recently visited Russia, and we hope that productive discussions will come from that. We continue to work very closely with the United States and other NATO allies to ensure that our efforts over the past 30 years are not just sustained but strengthened.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Will the Minister answer the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about consultation? It is surely rather important that there was some consultation—perhaps there was not—because countries in Europe who are in the alliance are much more in the firing line than the United States. Can he say whether the United States consulted us or any other European allies—and, if so, what opinion did we offer?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think I have partly answered the second part of the noble Lord’s question. The US has not withdrawn from the treaty. President Trump announced an intention to withdraw. On consultation prior to him making that announcement, this was discussed at the last NATO meeting, so American concerns about the treaty came as no surprise. On the specific question of the announcement, we were informed subsequently, but the material issue of the non-compliance of Russia was not new to the US or to any NATO ally.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Will my noble friend tell the House whether there is any evidence that Russia has been breaking the treaty, and to what extent? If there are now a great many more weapons capable of being aimed at Europe or anywhere else, that is quite disturbing.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is not just the United Kingdom: all NATO allies have long-standing concerns about Russia’s deployment of a range of new capabilities that undermines strategic stability in Europe specifically. Returning to the point made by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord West, that this issue of is primary importance to Europe, I assure my noble friend that, acting together as NATO, we will continue to pressure Russia to ensure that all treaties that have been signed are not only respected but strengthened.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister concerned about the erosion of nuclear arms control, as evidenced by this statement of intent by President Trump following his determination to resile from the nuclear arms deal? Added to that is the uncertainty about the renewal of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty. In all those circumstances, what prospects does this demonstrate to us for the review conference in 2020 of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? What work are the Government already embarking on in relation to that review?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about the renewal of that treaty. I assure him that we are working across NATO to ensure not only that the principles of that treaty are sustained but that the peace that we have seen on the continent through the de-escalation and reduction of weapons of all kinds—both nuclear and others—is not just sustained but maintained. There is a concern that I have already alluded to. In recent years we have seen Russia’s non-compliance and concerns about its technology-enabled development of new capabilities. It is right that NATO stands firm against this and we will continue to work very closely with NATO allies including—importantly—the United States.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister appears to have conceded that this was yet another surprise unilateral announcement by the President, without consultation with allies. But the President was right in one respect: things have moved on since this bilateral treaty. China is outside the treaty. Are there any prospects at all of engaging China in any form of treaty similar to the INF?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord talks again about the concerns of the United States, which are about not just China but North Korea and other countries that are not subject to such bilateral agreements and are therefore outside the remit of such a treaty. It is important to recognise that, in the world we live in today, there is a real need to acknowledge that different alliances need to be strengthened and that some countries are developing certain technologies in this area. The important task is to ensure that our dialogue, along with our partners, is sustained not just with Russia but elsewhere. Indeed, we are encouraged—certainly when it came to the discussions between the United States and North Korea—by the agreements that have been reached on the de-escalation of various capabilities in that region of Asia.