Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question asked in the other place on the reports of an imminent attack on Hodeidah port in Yemen. The Statement is as follows:

“Reports have circulated for some time of a possible assault on either Hodeidah or Hodeidah port. Information at the beginning of last weekend, including from troop movements, suggested that such an attack might be imminent. In view of our responsibilities to aid agencies, DfID issued the following statement based on that information:

‘We are doing everything we can through diplomatic channels to discourage an assault on Hodeidah. However despite these actions, a military assault now looks imminent. The Emiratis have informed us today that they will now give a 3-day grace period for the UN [and their partners] to leave the city. Please take all precautions necessary to prepare for this and let us know if there is anything we can do to assist you in any way. We are thinking of you and your staff at this very difficult time’.


That is the email that was reprinted in the Guardian today.

The Government are and have been concerned for some time about the potential impact of any assault on the city and port of Hodeidah, and have made their concerns clear to the Saudi and Emirati Governments. The UN assesses that an attack on Hodeidah could displace up to 350,000 people and leave hundreds of thousands of Yemenis without access to basic goods or healthcare. The Foreign Secretary spoke to his Saudi and Emirati counterparts over the weekend, and we are in close touch with the UN humanitarian co-ordinator and the UN special envoy.

The majority of Yemen’s food and fuel imports enter through Hodeidah and Saleef ports, and it is crucial that humanitarian and commercial imports continue to flow through the port. We urge all parties to facilitate access for essential imports of food, fuel and medical supplies into the country, including through Hodeidah. As with all aspects of the conflict, all parties must respect international humanitarian law and protect civilians.

No attack has yet taken place. Accordingly, we encourage all sides urgently to de-escalate and engage in good faith in the political process. The UN special envoy has previously expressed concern that conflicts in Hodeidah could take peace off the table ‘in a single stroke’. It is essential that the UN special envoy be given the time he needs to facilitate a negotiated solution that avoids conflict in the city, and we support his efforts to do so.

It is important to recall the wider conflict. The conflict in Yemen is now in its fourth year. Houthi rebels took the capital by force in 2014 and displaced the legitimate Government of Yemen. The Saudi-led coalition action is designed to facilitate the restoration of effective governance. The Houthis have consistently failed to adhere to UN Security Council resolutions, including by launching missile attacks against Saudi Arabia. They have prevented access to humanitarian supplies, which has led to significant damage to civilians, and have acted to prevent vital vaccinations.

We have been clear that there can be no military solution to the conflict. We continue to encourage all parties to show restraint, to return to negotiations and to engage in the UN-led political process in good faith, to work towards a comprehensive political settlement”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the response to this Urgent Question. Martin Griffiths, the UN special envoy, has been holding talks with all sides to try to broker a peace settlement, and was expected to report to the Security Council on his efforts on 18 June. As the Statement says, he says that any attack on Hodeidah by the UAE would,

“in a stroke, take peace off the table”.

Does the Minister agree with Martin Griffiths’ assessment, and if so, what action did the Government take to prepare for the emergency session of the Security Council taking place as we speak? If the Government did prepare, what did they expect to come out of the Security Council meeting with regard to stopping the planned UAE assault and keeping peace on track?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I assure the noble Lord and the House that we continue to support UN special envoy Martin Griffiths. As the noble Lord may be aware, the he met with Emirati officials on 10 June and pressed again for prioritising the political track. In this regard, the noble Lord is also correct that the UN Security Council is in session—but, as he will be aware, it is a closed session. On the efforts that the United Kingdom Government have taken to avert any kind of action on Hodeidah, we remain convinced that a political solution is required. That is why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spent this weekend directly contacting his counterparts in both the Emirati and UAE Governments, as well as in the Government of Saudi Arabia.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I am pleased to hear that the Government are doing all they can to avoid such an attack—which, as we have heard, would be catastrophic. However, what assessment have the Government made of the likely impact on civilians, including displacement and civilian casualties? Is the Foreign Secretary aware of the UN’s assessment on civilian deaths? I believe the Minister said 250,000. In addition, will the UK review its support—including arms sales and political support—to the coalition led by the Saudis and the UAE, if an attack on the port goes ahead that has a disproportionate effect on civilians?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Taking the noble Baroness’s final question, any support we provide, including support to the Saudis and Emiratis extended by the United Kingdom, is kept under review. Of course, she will also be aware that the litmus test remains that any action must be in line with international humanitarian law.

On the specific issue of whether my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is aware—of course, he is central. As I have already said, he has been talking to his counterparts in both the UAE and Saudi Arabia. I go back to the point raised in the Statement that the UN has already assessed that an attack on Hodeidah could displace up to 350,000 people and leave hundreds of thousands of Yemenis without basic requirements such as food and healthcare.

The noble Baroness will also be aware that the United Kingdom Government stand with the Yemeni people. We have been at the forefront of providing support. In April we also announced a further £170 million in support for essential healthcare and other requirements. I stress, as all noble Lords are aware, that Hodeidah is the gateway to providing much of the relief and humanitarian assistance that is required. It is the responsibility of both sides to ensure that that access continues. The Houthis, who currently control the port, are not without fault. They caused the crisis in the first instance by displacing the Government, and more recently have continued to exercise blockages of the port and have stopped certain shipments from taking place. Therefore, we implore all sides to ensure that a political settlement can prevail.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister not only for repeating the Answer to the Question but for the tone and the content of the Answer. Through him I also thank his right honourable friend Alistair Burt, the Minister of State for the Middle East and North Africa, for the “Dear Colleague” letter that we all received dated 8 June. It is very helpful and contains in the third-to-last paragraph some awful statistics about the scale of the humanitarian crisis in the Yemen, including the fact that more than 50% of the population of Yemen—17.8 million people —do not have reliable access to food and 8.4 million people face extreme food shortages. Is it not the case that the only traffic that passes through the port of Hodeidah at the moment is humanitarian aid—nothing else? Does the Minister agree that the use of starvation as a weapon of war is in breach of international humanitarian law? Would not an attack on this port be strong evidence of a breach of humanitarian law? If any UK-manufactured weapons and planes that we had sold to any member of the coalition were used in such an attack, how could we justify continuing to sell weapons to them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord for his remarks, and I will of course convey to my right honourable friend the comments about his constructive letter. The noble Lord raised the dire humanitarian situation prevailing in Yemen. As I said in response to an earlier question, that is why we have been at the forefront of providing support. I share his concern, as do the UK Government, about the importance of keeping open Hodeidah port as a lifeline. Over the weekend, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary called once again for no action to be taken on Hodeidah port in order to keep open that vital channel. But let us put this in context. As I said earlier, the port is controlled by Houthi rebels, who at Hodeidah and elsewhere—including, for example, in Aden—have not missed an opportunity to intimidate UN ships. They have also used schools, hospitals and children as part of their activities in Yemen.

To answer the noble Lord’s specific question about weapons, I revert to what I said: we keep the situation under constant review and will ensure that we apply the litmus test that there are no serious violations of international humanitarian law. That point has been made to the Emiratis and the Saudis. As I am sure the noble Lord is aware, there was a judicial review of this situation. The judgment concluded that our risk-based assessments had,

“all the hallmarks of a rigorous and robust, multi-layered process of analysis carried out by numerous expert Government and military personnel, upon which the Secretary of State”—

this referred to the Secretary of State for International Trade—

“could properly rely”.

In other words, our measures were robust. However, the noble Lord raises important points about the use of such weapons. I assure him that, not just in this conflict but in conflicts elsewhere in the world, we keep the situation firmly under review.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, it would appear that the Arab coalition calculations are to strike a decisive blow against the Houthis. What discussions, if any, are being conducted with Iran in order to second-guess its reaction in regard to both Yemen and more regionally—and, if that happens to be the case, what has been the outcome of such discussions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises the important issue of Iran. He is quite right: it exerts great influence over and provides great support for the Houthi rebels. That is why we urge not just the two sides in this conflict but all regional players, including Iran, which supports the Houthis, to cease hostilities and work together towards ensuring that there is, first, a ceasefire, and then a political settlement for Yemen. We have heard the stark statistics about the unravelling humanitarian crisis. This is one of the biggest crises in the world and concerted action is required on all sides. All countries with influence over the different sides must take action now to avert a further crisis in that country.

House adjourned at 7.23 pm.

Palestinian Territories

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join all noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Steel, for tabling this debate and introducing it in such an exemplary manner, drawing on his insights and wide experience. I also thank noble Lords for all their contributions. As has been said, there may at times be differing opinions but I think the common cause is to bring peace, stability, prosperity and progress for all people across both Israel and Palestine. In this regard, let me say at the outset that while I have heard the opinions expressed in your Lordships’ House, the UK and the Government remain committed to supporting a negotiated peace settlement that leads to that viable, sovereign and stable Palestinian state, living alongside a safe, secure, prosperous and progressive Israel. Indeed, those adjectives we use for either side apply to both.

That is why we strongly support the state-building efforts of the Palestinian Authority in particular. When I visited Israel and Palestine recently, I made that very specific point, about the importance of the UK’s continuing support, to Prime Minister Hamdallah in Ramallah. That is why we continue to encourage the US Administration to bring forward detailed proposals for an Israeli-Palestinian settlement. The Government remain committed to the two-state solution as the best way to bring about stability and peace in the region and to realise the national aspirations of the Palestinian people.

While there was some talk of this debate being somewhat depressing at times, as an eternal optimist I never give up hope. In the contributions we have heard today, there is hope. Let me assure the noble Lord, Lord Hain—I address him directly—that I totally agree with him, as do the Government: we believe that the occupation in the Palestinian Territories is unacceptable and unsustainable. Anyone who has visited Israel and Palestine would make that assessment. A just and lasting resolution that ends occupation and delivers peace for both Israelis and Palestinians is long overdue.

My noble friend Lord Lothian also made the important point about commitment to the aspirations of the Palestinian people. Let me assure noble Lords that we are so committed. The recognition of the Palestinian state was raised by many noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Steel, in opening the debate, my noble friend Lord Cope, the noble Lords, Lord Ahmed, Lord Hannay, Lord Dykes and Lord Judd, and many more.

It is important that we see the creation of a sovereign, independent, democratic and viable Palestinian state. Our commitment to that vision is why the UK has been a leading donor, as many noble Lords have acknowledged, to the Palestinian Authority and such a strong supporter of the state-building efforts. For example, in 2017-18, UK aid to the Palestinian Authority helped pay the salaries of up to 30,000 teachers, doctors and nurses, midwives and other essential educators and public servants on the vetted list. I listened carefully to the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, who said he had had sight of my notes in the response I would give on recognition. The position of the Government, of course, remains the same at this time: we will formally recognise the state of Palestine when we believe it best serves the cause of peace.

I am the Minister for Human Rights, among my other responsibilities at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and I have listened very attentively to the expressions and sentiments of your Lordships’ House in what I believe has been a very meaningful and constructive debate: those sentiments have registered quite significantly. Recent events have prompted the tabling of this debate, and the events in Gaza are a case in point—the shocking violence at the border in mid-May, which tragically resulted in many Palestinian deaths and injuries, and the barrage of rocket attacks last week from Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza, which indiscriminately targeted Israeli civilians.

[Lord Hunt of Chesterton (Lab)]

Were British arms used in these events?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On our arms policy, as I have said repeatedly from the Dispatch Box, we always ensure that the most rigid processes are applied in terms of arms sales, not just to Israel but to other countries. We also seek those assurances when we are negotiating any deals we have with international partners.

I sought to visit Gaza on my last visit to Israel. It was extremely regrettable and, indeed, tragic but because of the escalating nature of the situation, that visit had to be cancelled literally in the morning. Nevertheless, I went to the Palestinian Territories and saw for myself in areas such as Hebron the challenges and the causes of suffering of many people across the Palestinian Territories. This is not something that Israel wants to see: Israel wants to see a resolution because resolutions require peace and peace will ultimately mean peace for both people. Both sides know that peace efforts will not be advanced by violence. As the noble Lord, Lord Singh of Wimbledon, started the account in his very poignant contribution I thought I was listening to “Thought for the Day”, but he made the very pertinent point that peace efforts cannot be advanced by violence.

Turning to some of the specific questions, the noble Baronesses, Lady Uddin and Lady Northover, raised the issue of the Human Rights Council and the resolution that was passed. The UK’s position was articulated by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. We listened very carefully to the debate which ensued and the reason we took the decision to abstain was that we did not feel that the resolution was balanced. It did not call for an investigation into the action of non-state actors, a point made in various ways by noble Lords during this debate. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the statement from my right honourable friend Alistair Burt on the United Kingdom’s co-operation with any such inquiry. As my right honourable friend stated, we are supporters of the Human Rights Council and continue to support the inquiry in this respect. The detail is still being worked through by the Human Rights Council.

On the specific case of Razan Al-Najjar, the medic who was serving in the Territories, in Gaza, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, among others, I stand with all noble Lords in decrying any loss of innocent life anywhere in the world—Gaza is no exception—particularly those medics who put themselves in the line of fire. We stand together in solidarity in recognising their service and, in the case of Razan, her ultimate sacrifice. I assure noble Lords that in the meeting between Prime Ministers May and Netanyahu issues around Gaza were specifically raised. We understand there was a preliminary Israeli military investigation into this, but yesterday the Prime Minister reiterated the UK’s support for an independent, transparent investigation into events in Gaza during her meeting. The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Warner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, all spoke of its importance. The Human Rights Council has made this resolution, as I said earlier, about a commission. While the UK is not required formally to take any further action, as a supporter of the commission’s inquiry in general we will encourage parties to engage constructively with the Human Rights Council and all its mechanisms and processes.

The noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, and the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, referred to the ICC referral. We respect the independence of the prosecutor and her role in undertaking a preliminary examination into the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. On 8 April, the prosecutor made a statement explaining that recent events and any future incidents may fall within the scope of this preliminary examination. In any event the UK fully supports and recognises the need for an independent and transparent investigation into the events that have taken place in recent weeks, including the extent to which Israeli security forces’ rules of engagement are in line with international law, and the role that Hamas played in the events.

On the issue of leadership on the Middle East peace process, the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, raised the role of the United Kingdom. On the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, both parties must show bold leadership to help move us closer to the shared goal of peace. This includes taking steps to build an environment that is conducive to negotiations. In the first instance, that means both sides avoiding actions that undermine trust and threaten the viability of the two-state solution. On the Israeli side, this includes settlement activity and the demolition of Palestinian structures. This was mentioned specifically by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. As noble Lords will be aware, the UK Government consider Israeli settlement activity illegal under international law. Just last month the Israeli Government announced they are advancing plans to construct over 3,100 new settlement units, many deep within the West Bank. These include 120 housing units in Kiryat Arba, near Hebron, and over 90 units in the settlement of Kfar Adumim next door to Khan Al-Ahmar. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary made clear in his Statement, the UK is gravely concerned about further settlement in the West Bank. We urge the Israeli authorities to reconsider plans that undermine prospects for a two-state solution. Indeed, I made a point, when I visited Israel and Palestine, to visit one of these Bedouin camps.

I assure noble Lords that we have constructive dialogue with our Israeli counterparts. I have always found my engagement with Israeli Ministers to be constructive—yes, challenging at times but very respectful. I raised our concerns about the occupation when I met the Israeli Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked and Israeli Minister for Regional Cooperation, Tzachi Hanegbi, in April. The Minister for the Middle East raised his concerns with his Israeli counterparts during his visit last week, and the Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister have also made clear the UK’s opposition to the policy of settlement expansion to Prime Minister Netanyahu during meetings this week.

We have also repeatedly made it clear that we consider the demolition of Palestinian structures in the West Bank to be entirely unacceptable. In all but the most exceptional cases, demolitions are totally contrary to international humanitarian law. Every single demolition, or eviction of a Palestinian family from their home causes unnecessary suffering and calls into question Israel’s commitment to a viable two-state solution. The Government are particularly concerned by the imminent threat of demolition of the Bedouin village of Khan Al-Ahmar. This would pave the way for future settlement expansion in E1, directly threatening a two-state solution with Jerusalem as the shared capital. This community has lived there peacefully for many decades. We believe that demolishing the village is unnecessary and not the way to treat people with whom you want to live in peace.

The UK has repeatedly called on the Israeli authorities not to go ahead with these plans. The Minister for the Middle East, my right honourable friend Alistair Burt, visited Khan Al-Ahmar just last week, spoke about his concerns publicly in media engagements and raised them with Deputy Foreign Minister Hotovely. The Foreign Secretary released a strong statement setting out the UK’s position. Once again, we urge Israel to abide by international humanitarian law and stop its plans to demolish the community of Khan al-Ahmar.

As we know, Israeli settlements and demolitions are not the only obstacles to the two-state solution—or indeed to peace. As the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, and my noble friends Lord Leigh of Hurley, Lord Shinkwin and Lady Morris reminded us, terrorism and incitement also pose grave threats. On two days last week, 216 projectiles, rockets and mortar shells were fired from Gaza towards Israel—the worst attack since the 2014 war. They were fired indiscriminately at civilian targets, including towards a kindergarten—and a few landed in the kindergarten. We reiterate our belief that Israelis have the right to live free from the threat of terrorism. That is a view that I believe we all share. We therefore call on Hamas and other terrorist groups to end their attacks on Israel once and for all.

We also strongly condemn the use of hateful language that stirs up hatred and prejudice among communities, and incites violence. We therefore encourage both the Palestinian Authority and the Government of Israel to reject hate speech and incitement, and to prepare their people for peaceful coexistence, as the noble Lords, Lord Luce and Lord Anderson, called for, including by promoting a more positive portrayal of each other through education, cultural and human rights exchanges between civil society groups. I listened carefully to the contribution of my noble friend Lord Polak about the importance of economic co-operation. I will speak to him after the debate about the details of his proposal to provide that hope to Ali Jaffer. Violence against Palestinians by extremist settlers in the West Bank, including east Jerusalem, is also deeply concerning, despite stronger law enforcement by the Israeli authorities. We condemn this violence in the strongest terms.

All noble Lords talked about Gaza, and rightly so. It is a complex situation and we recognise Israel’s legitimate security concerns. At the same time, the restrictions imposed by Israel and Egypt on movement and access into and out of Gaza contribute significantly to the dire humanitarian situation. The UK will continue to work with Israel to get more goods into Gaza to alleviate the situation and stimulate economic activity. The noble Lord, Lord Palmer, talked about Egypt’s role in this process. We are encouraged that, during the holy month of Ramadan, which we are in the final and most poignant 10 days of, Egypt has opened up the Rafah crossing for this period. We therefore urge Israel, Egypt and the Palestinian Authority to work together to find a lasting solution to the situation in Gaza. In this regard, the UK welcomes the proposals of Nickolay Mladenov, the special representative of the UN Secretary-General.

I am conscious of time and there are many issues still to be covered. I will write to noble Lords. On human rights, the noble Baroness, Lady Janke, raised the issue of children. As Minister for Human Rights, I raised this issue directly with Ministers during my visit, particularly the military detention of children in the Occupied Territories, which is of particular concern to me. I pressed the Israeli Justice Minister, Ayelet Shaked, for improvements in their treatment when I met her in April. The UK continues to fund a number of human rights projects on this issue, including providing legal aid to minors, and capacity building.

Finally, I will set out what we are doing financially to support the Palestinians. My noble friend Lady Morris, the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lords, Lord Steel and Lord Hylton, spoke poignantly about this. We continue to support the Palestinian Authority. Last year our support enabled around 24,000 young Palestinians to get an education, and provided up to 3,700 immunisations for children and around 185,000 medical consultations. We recently announced a further £1.5 million of urgent humanitarian funding to the ICRC appeal to provide medical treatment for Gazans. This is in addition to our support though the United Nations Children’s Fund, to provide clean water and better sanitation for up to 1 million Gazans. We also remain a steadfast supporter of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian refugees, which provides basic health and education services to 1.3 million people in Gaza, as well as 800,000 refugees in the West Bank. Last year the UK provided £50 million to support this initiative.

The noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Lea of Crondall, among others, raised the specific issue of Jerusalem. Jerusalem is often cited as a centre of conflict. It is also the centre, poignantly, of the three Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Its significance to those three faiths and those three peoples is immense. I remember as a young child, as a Muslim in a Christian school, being taught about Judaism. When I returned home, my mother put it poignantly to me: “The foundation of our faith, Tariq, is Judaism. Without the foundation of that house, the walls of Christianity could not be erected, and without the walls of Christianity, the roof of Islam would not complete the house of Abraham”. Perhaps therein lies the solution: Jerusalem, the city of peace—by name, by definition—bringing people together. I believe that this debate has added to the constructive and progressive dialogue that we are having on this important issue. As a good friend to both parties, the United Kingdom Government and I, as Minister for Human Rights, believe that there is a pivotal role to play in building that hope, for Israelis and Palestinians alike, for people of all faiths and none, to ensure that we build that peace—to build that Jerusalem.

UK and the Western Balkans (IRC Report)

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join all noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Howell for tabling this debate and for his committed work as chair of the International Relations Committee. On the same basis I add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, for introducing this debate in such an expert manner. This is an ongoing issue in debate and discussion. I also thank all members of the committee for producing a report which was thorough and useful. It raises questions, some of which I hope I can shed further light on.

The report, The UK and the Future of the Western Balkans, drew attention to an important issue which impacts our own continent. I therefore agree with my noble friend Lady Helic that this is a particularly timely debate, coming soon after the EU western Balkan summit in Sofia and, of course, the Prime Minister’s visit to Macedonia last week. As my noble friend said, this was the first visit by a British Prime Minister to the region in almost 20 years and was made in the context of current developments on the ground, which were expertly and, may I add, poignantly reflected upon by the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown. In some respects, there is the hope of positive outcomes but I share the point made about the reality by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. There was a reality in the contributions this afternoon, particularly from the noble Lord. This has also been a timely opportunity for noble Lords to contribute ahead of our own western Balkans summit in London in July, which I will come on to in a moment.

The committee’s report states that the western Balkans remains,

“of great and continuing importance to the UK”,

and that:

“We have significant interests in supporting stability and prosperity in the region”.


Let me assure noble Lords that the Government agree with this assessment. The UK’s commitment to the western Balkans is long-standing and has not been without sacrifice. Since 1992, as my noble friend Lady Helic reminded us, 72 UK service personnel have lost their lives bringing peace to the region. I know that all across your Lordships’ House will join me today in paying tribute to them for their sacrifices.

Let me also join in the tributes to those here today, most notably the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown. Like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it was part and parcel of my morning drive-in to hear his dulcet tones draw attention to this important issue on Radio 4. In acknowledging his work and contributions, I also acknowledge the vital work of my noble friend Lady Helic, in particular her sterling work, along with my noble friend Lord Hague, on the initiative on preventing sexual violence in conflict, which I am now proud to lead. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, is not in his place but I also wish to acknowledge and put on record our thanks to him for his work in this important area. All noble Lords whom I have mentioned have played a vital role in bringing peace and stability to the region, and we have seen their continued commitment today.

We recognise there has been some concern in the region—it has been expressed in your Lordships’ House today—that the UK’s departure from the EU might lessen our commitment to the western Balkans. I assure noble Lords that that is simply not the case. The Prime Minister herself pledged in her Munich speech in February that the UK would remain,

“just as committed to Europe’s security”—

a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins—

“in the future as we have been in the past”.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, and my noble friend Lady Helic that the Prime Minister took the same message to last week’s Sofia summit, reassuring EU and western Balkans leaders of the UK’s continuing commitment to promoting prosperity, security and stability in the years ahead. That commitment, and the continuing importance of our strategic role in the region, is best illustrated by our forthcoming western Balkans summit.

I first wish to look at the key challenges that face the region. Many noble Lords rightly focused on the important issue of security. I share many of the views expressed by noble Lords on the threats facing the region or emanating from it, whether terrorism and violent extremism or serious and organised crime, including the trafficking of people, drugs and firearms. These are as much a threat to the UK as they are to the region, a point well addressed by my noble friend Lady Helic. That is why we are at the forefront of work with the EU and other international partners to address those challenges.

We have launched an expert-level UK-western Balkans security discourse, which is shaping our security engagement with the region. The first meeting explored ways to increase co-operation against corruption, promote criminal justice reform and combat money laundering. The second, in March, which I am delighted to say was opened by my noble friend Lady Helic, focused on how to increase our co-operation to counter violent extremism.

No less grave is the threat of Russian interference, a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. The Government remain deeply concerned that Russia is taking a more aggressive approach in order to disrupt the region’s Euro-Atlantic accession path. The Russian-backed attempted coup in Montenegro in October 2016 was a brazen example of the Kremlin’s willingness to use force to foment chaos and instability. We have seen Russia acting in the western Balkans but also across Europe in a whole variety of ways. Part of that is about propaganda and the use of disinformation. We have also seen cyberattacks and the very real attack that took place in Salisbury with the use of a nerve agent. We therefore welcome the firm actions taken by our allies, including a number of partners in the western Balkans, as a result of the attack in Salisbury. It is vital that we maintain a common front in the face of this threat, building our resilience and calling out malign behaviour wherever we see it. The countries of the western Balkans can expect the full co-operation of the UK in the years ahead to build and strengthen the institutions needed to tackle this challenge. This is part of our unconditional commitment to Europe’s security.

While we certainly do not rule out further Russian interference, we do not believe that it has to be that way. That is why we continue to engage with Russia and to urge it to play a more constructive role in the region. For example, as a member of the Bosnia and Herzegovina Peace Implementation Council Steering Board, we hope that Russia will work with us to stop anti-Dayton and anti-constitutional activities, which, as the noble Lord pointed out, are destabilising. In the meantime, we are intensifying our security and defence engagement in the region, including by increasing our over-the-horizon reserve force for the Balkans from a company to a battalion, as the Defence Secretary announced last November. I hope that will reassure my noble friend Lady Helic. We are also sharing expertise to help increase the region’s resilience to cyberattacks.

My noble friend raised the growing influence of Gulf states over the years, whether in commerce or tourism, and we are monitoring those issues very closely. The number of Saudi-funded mosques and schools has increased across the Balkans. I assure my noble friend that, as the Foreign Office Minister responsible for countering extremism, I am monitoring that area very closely.

The second issue, which several noble Lords spoke about in detail, is the importance of stability. Political instability is a key challenge to the future progress of countries of the region, much of it stemming from the unresolved disputes and the continuing legacy of the 1990s conflicts that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred to. The Government, like many here today, remain concerned about the current situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I assure the noble Lords, Lord Ashdown and Lord Purvis, and my noble friends Lady Helic and Lord Bowness that, when we look towards accession—issues were raised about Serbia’s EU accession in particular—Serbia’s EU membership remains some way off, as the Commission’s strategy has set out, and it will not be before 2025.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for those encouraging words. It is of course true that Serbia’s accession is five or six years off at best, but he should not underestimate, as I am sure he does not, that people, particularly in places like Republika Srpska, will be responding to the possibility of joining the EU, through Serbia rather than Bosnia, well ahead of events. That is already causing an underpinning to the obstructionism that we see taking place in Banja Luka. So I ask him not to take too much comfort from the fact that it is coming down the tracks at some distance; it is influencing events, and not in a helpful way, even today.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that when in his contribution he drew the comparison with Croatia, that issue was not lost on me. It is something that I have taken particular note of. It is important, when we talk about accession and the future, that we talk about the nation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

We also share the concerns about stability in Bosnia and Herzegovina itself. That is why we continue to support the country’s Euro-Atlantic accession and remain active in the country. We do not support the redrawing of any borders in the country and consider any attempts to secede unilaterally or abolish any entities to be unacceptable; as the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, reminded us, that would contravene all previous accords. We continue to urge the country’s leaders to reach agreement on electoral reform amendments in order to avoid a constitutional stalemate after October’s elections. Divisive rhetoric will only move the parties further from a solution and the socioeconomic reforms that the country needs so badly.

I referred earlier to the initiative on preventing sexual violence in conflict, which was launched in the region, most notably in Bosnia and Herzegovina but also in Kosovo. Since the start of our work in 2013 in Bosnia and Herzegovina, there has been a marked increase in prosecuting conflict-related sexual violence cases from the 1990s. Bosnia and Herzegovina’s courts have now completed 116 cases involving charges of conflict-related sexual violence against 162 defendants. This is more than any other country in the world. As the Prime Minister’s special representative on this issue, I am looking shortly to visit Bosnia to assess progress in this regard, and I will be working closely with my noble friend Lady Helic. A couple of months ago I met with a former President of Kosovo who is leading this initiative there. In the interests of stability in the region, we also believe that urgent progress is needed for Serbia and Kosovo to normalise relations. We continue to support the EU-facilitated dialogue to secure a comprehensive and lasting solution that benefits both countries.

My noble friends Lady Helic and Lord Balfe also raised the name issue regarding Macedonia. A solution to that issue would bring enormous benefit to both countries as well as increasing regional security. During her visit last week, the Prime Minister welcomed the progress that is being made in both countries. I assure noble Lords that it is the Government’s position that toying with any borders on the basis of ethnicity is dangerous, and we have already seen the tragic consequences of such a policy in the 1990s.

The third element is strengthening the rule of law and governance in the region, which, as we have all acknowledged, still needs much work. Through our political and diplomatic engagement and indeed our technical assistance, we are working to tackle these issues. For example, we have quadrupled our technical assistance to Macedonia this year to strengthen the rule of law and governance, supporting Prime Minister Zaev’s ambitious reform programme. My noble friend Lord Balfe and others raised the issue of Macedonia joining NATO. The UK has recently given assistance for further defence reform.

In Kosovo, we launched a new project to support fair and transparent recruitment for senior heads of public institutions. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, we are working with the police and security agencies and with state-level judicial institutions to strengthen their independence, professionalism and efficiency—a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins. This should strengthen the fight against terrorism, organised crime and corruption.

We have also increased our programme funding for our defence commitment post Brexit—a point raised by my noble friend Lady Helic and the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, from £27 million to £40 million in this financial year. I say to the noble Baroness that projects specifically on the rule of law have been bolstered. We continue to raise our concerns about rule of law and corruption with political leaders across the region. We are also working with partners such as the British Council, mentioned by several noble Lords, and the Westminster Foundation for Democracy, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Collins.

We will use the London western Balkans summit to work with our partners to address all those issues. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, specifically mentioned the importance of making it work and asked about the importance of trade and DIT engagement. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Trade will open the start-up games, which will bring entrepreneurs together on 9 July at the western Balkans summit. The noble Lord also asked about a visit to the western Balkans or any country there. I do not have my right honourable friend’s diary to hand, but I shall write to the noble Lord. I assure the noble Lord of my right honourable friend’s continued commitment to the important area of the west Balkans.

Let us not forget, as my noble friend Lady Helic pointed out, that the date of the west Balkans summit will coincide with the anniversary of the massacre in Srebrenica. I have visited Srebrenica myself, and it is chilling to see what took place there, but I am also pleased that our Government, and our country, mark this event and, as an initiative, continue to do so.

Looking ahead, we remain of the view that the EU accession process is important to help the countries of the western Balkans become more stable and secure and able to act on a rules-based system. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, raised the issue of NGOs at the summit. As someone who, as Minister for the Commonwealth, saw the benefit directly, I can say that we are certainly working closely with civil society and youth groups to develop the summit agenda and will ensure that civil society and young people from the region are well represented and heard by political leaders at the summit. As those details become clearer, I shall certainly feed in noble Lords’ contributions in this respect.

We will also continue to support the western Balkans through international organisations. My noble friend Lord Bowness talked about the OSCE. I have attended various meetings. He made some very important points about ensuring that we increase our presence and contributions. We are certainly doing all that. I shall need to write to him on why there was not a WMS after the Vienna meeting; I found his suggestion both sensible and practical. I also assure the House that I will take back to the Home Office the suggestion from the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, about immigration figures for economic migrants.

In conclusion, the western Balkans matters for UK and European security. That is why we are increasing our engagement with the region. I assure noble Lords that our departure from the European Union will not lessen this commitment, as can be seen by our hosting the western Balkans summit this July.

On a personal note, I give this commitment. I recall the conflict vividly. I remember the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, on the ground, but I also recall it because I visited the region. I had just embarked on a career in the City. I remember visiting one of the camps in Hungary, in a town called Nagyatád, near the border. There I met the chap who was acting as my translator, Ozerad Sükilovic. I remember the name very well. He had been a victim of the Bosnian war. As I worked with him, my immediate intention was to return. I went back twice to that region. Challenges confront us today in Bosnia-Herzegovina and I totally take on board the important points of the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, about ensuring that there can be no complacency.

As I left on my second trip, Ozerad said to me, “Tariq, you know that engagement and involvement from countries that are part of our continent matter”. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “You know what, above all else, when all is said and done, it is because it gives us hope”. That hope cannot be lost. Therefore, I believe that our expertise, our long-standing relationships and increased bilateral programme and presence mean that we will remain a leading and influential player in the region. We remain committed to supporting stability, democracy, the rule of law and prosperity in the western Balkans now and in the future.

I welcome the immense expertise we have heard in this afternoon’s debate. But, as the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, reminded us, it is vital that, as we move forward on the important agenda, and look towards building lasting peace, stability and security, we build that peace, strengthen that security and prosperity for all the peoples and citizens of the western Balkans.

Iran and Saudi Arabia: Co-operation on Syria and Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to encourage Iran and Saudi Arabia to work together to bring peaceful solutions to the conflicts in Syria and Yemen.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, Syria and Yemen are among the two worst humanitarian crises in the world. A stable Middle East is in every nation’s interest. We therefore continue to encourage both Saudi Arabia and Iran to work towards regional peace and stability. We also urge all countries in the region to support the UN-led peace processes in both Syria and Yemen. Only political solutions can end these terrible conflicts.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. The UN humanitarian co-ordinator for the Syrian crisis is reported as saying that 2018 is the worst year in Syria, with more than 7 million displaced people and the Geneva process frozen. Meanwhile, more than 7 million people are starving in Yemen. This is a Muslim version of the Thirty Years’ War, between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Will Her Majesty’s Government consider leading an EU peace mission to Yemen and Syria consisting of specialists with knowledge of the political, cultural and religious differences?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a very important point and I concur with him. These conflicts are the worst kind of humanitarian crises we have seen and they continue unabated. The challenge has remained because there are other forces at work—regional disputes and rivalries are being played out in both Syria and Yemen. I say to the noble Lord that the Government remain committed to the UN processes in both regards. He is of course right that the process in Syria, in particular, has stalled. The reason it has stalled is primarily the Assad regime’s direct disengagement from the process. The noble Lord makes a practical suggestion and, while the UK Government remain committed to ensuring that the UN mechanisms are fully recognised, I would welcome any helpful thoughts and processes on encouraging greater dialogue between the different communities that constitute Syria and Yemen and further afield.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, does the Minister accept the continuing pressing need to improve religious literacy, not least concerning Sunni and Shia, within and without Whitehall if we in this country are properly to understand, let alone address, the problems to which reference has been made?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate makes an important point. There are many wise voices when it comes to the tragic conflict that we sometimes see being played out by different denominations within the context of Islam. I remind noble Lords that there are 73 different denominations in Islam, but Shia and Sunnis represent the majority. In this regard, any dialogue is positive. A few months back, as part of my responsibilities at the Foreign Office, I looked at the important issue of countering extremism. Together with the Vatican, we invited to Rome scholars from both the Sunni and Shia voices of Islam to give productive and practical suggestions on the way forward.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom, with its European partners, is seeking to retain the Iran nuclear deal. Might this be a time to encourage Iran to be constructive in both Syria and Yemen, and to release dual nationals, including Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Taking the noble Baroness’s final point first, I can assure her and the House that we continue to raise consular cases with Iran at every opportunity. On the wider point of engagement, she is right that we that we have been working with our partners to ensure that the Iranian nuclear deal remains live and will continue to do so. In our most recent discussions, the Foreign Secretary had a conversation with Foreign Minister Zarif about the importance of also ensuring that Iran plays its role in, for example, ensuring the Assad regime comes to the table in Geneva so that we can get the kind of peace we are all seeking for the people of Syria.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, women and children have been forgotten in the concern about the Shia and Sunni discussions and yet it is they who suffer the brunt of the violence. Will the Government, please, concentrate on the plight of women and children, regardless of whether they are Sunni, Shia or anything else?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is right. I assure her and the House that the Government are totally committed to this agenda and have been leading on the issues of women, peace and security in our national action plans across the world. I was in Turkey when we launched the next Syrian action plan, and subsequently in Iraq to launch the national action plan on women, peace and security. Women have to be at the heart and soul of conflict resolution. By excluding women—more than 50% of the population—no solution can be found. Perhaps I may say a final word to those so-called religionists who feel that by using a noble faith they can exclude religion: you are wrong. For every prophet of every faith, including the Prophet of Islam, women played a central and pivotal role in all decision-making, both internally and externally.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, given the impact that sectarianism can have in a global context, John Bew, in his excellent article in the New Statesman this week, has pointed out that old taboos are breaking down, with the Prime Minister of Israel going to Moscow and the Iranians going to China. In response, will the Government be clear about the need to speak to our allies to ensure that we are completely up to date with this moving situation, and that we work especially with our European allies to ensure that the necessary peace talks take place?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right and he knows that I agree with his sentiment. That is why—returning to the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover—the United Kingdom, working together with our allies, has been pivotal in ensuring that the nuclear deal with Iran stays alive. The noble Lord will know that the Prime Minister, together with the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany, issued a joint statement. It is important that walls come down—for example, in Europe, it took a wall coming down for peace finally to be restored. Those who build walls achieve nothing. We are in the process of taking those walls down.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Underlining the question of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, does the Minister see a changing coalition of minds in the making—such as that of Saudi with Israel and, by extension the United States, and that of China and Russia with Iran—which, together with the European Union, might be planning to counter the effects of secondary sanctions? This brings us full circle as to which side the UK will take on this and the Question on the Order Paper.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think the side the UK is taking is quite clear; we are taking a pragmatic stance. We are the closest allies of the United States, but when we disagree with them, we make those differences clear, as we did on the nuclear deal. On the importance of talks and ensuring that new alliances can be made, we are encouraged by the visit of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the UK. One notable feature of his visit that greatly encouraged me was the fact that en route to London he stopped in Egypt, where he visited the Coptic Church, which was a first. That is to be encouraged.

Commonwealth: Discriminatory Legislation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In so doing, I draw attention to my interests in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has committed to supporting Commonwealth countries that want to reform their outdated legislation. The new £5.6 million of funding will support civil society to accelerate social and legislative change, provide legal policy research tools and expertise and convene regional dialogues to strengthen co-operation, understanding and policy exchange. The aim of the programme is to advance the legal equality and rights of all Commonwealth citizens, regardless of gender, sex, sexual orientation or gender identity.

[Baroness Barker]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. Thirty years ago, under Section 28, this Parliament gave the world a blueprint on how to discriminate against LGBT people, so it was extremely welcome to listen to the Prime Minister’s proposal during CHOGM. What is the funding supposed to support? What activities do the Government envisage will be carried out under this programme? Does the Minister agree that those religions that have colluded to harm LGBT people around the world should perhaps offer restitution by supporting this initiative?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the noble Baroness’s second point, as we promote LGBT rights, it is important to discuss this issue with religious leaders and approach it with sensitivity—I fully accept that—but it is also important to look at this as being about the equality of all citizens. Issues of justice and equality for all resonate with all faiths. On the specific point about funding, the noble Baroness is right to point out that our Prime Minister, Mrs May, was very clear at the Commonwealth summit plenary session about where Her Majesty’s Government stand on this. The funding that was announced has been allocated specifically to look at these issue across the Commonwealth. I welcome practical suggestions from the noble Baroness—I know that she leads on this subject and has wide insight into it—because this money is to be allocated primarily to civil society organisations.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the £5.6 million fund and the commitment of the Prime Minister to address the discrimination faced within the Commonwealth. Does the Minister agree that, vital though it is to work with Stonewall, the Kaleidoscope Trust and others, it is imperative that we work with NGOs and individuals in those countries so that there is no suggestion of neocolonialism or imposition from outside?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I have a short answer for the noble Lord: yes.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister knows, we had discussions at CHOGM about this issue and he is absolutely right about the need to support and engage with civil society. That includes churches as well as civil society groups such as trade unions, which can actually promote equality and non-discrimination policies at work and, in doing so, ensure that LGBT rights become a workplace issue—not simply one that brings us into conflict with faith groups and others but a much more practical issue. Has the Minister had the opportunity to meet trade unions to discuss how he can approach this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I know the noble Lord had a very productive event that he attended during the Commonwealth summit engaging with trade unions directly. As the noble Lord knows, we are meeting very shortly—although I have invited everyone in for a cup of tea in the middle of Ramadan, so I am not sure how I will partake—to hear practical suggestions about the groups and individuals we should be engaging with to ensure that this funding that has been allocated is allocated appropriately and where it can be used to best effect.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, while I welcome the Minister’s response, I remind the House that the Commonwealth charter was adopted unanimously more than five years ago, declaring an implacable opposition to all forms of discrimination. It is a sad fact that, still today, 37 out of 53 Commonwealth states criminalise same-sex relationships under 19th-century laws. They may have been our laws, but we are talking about Commonwealth laws now and, in that respect, despite the benefits of a Commonwealth common legal system, we still seem to be dragging our feet. What progress do the Government anticipate making in tackling discrimination while Commonwealth chair-in-office? What support will they provide in this to the Commonwealth Secretariat, the Royal Commonwealth Society and the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, all based here in London?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the Government’s view is very clear. I quote the Prime Minister when she addressed the plenary session:

“the UK stands ready to support any Commonwealth member wanting to reform outdated legislation that permits discrimination, including against same-sex relations”.

The funding is to be allocated to help countries build up their legal systems. I assure the noble Lord further that, in our bilateral exchanges with Commonwealth partners, we also ensure that issues of equality have a primary focus. It is about working in partnership, taking communities and societies together, and that is the approach we are taking.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, when the noble Lord is looking at outdated laws in the Commonwealth, will he reflect on the meeting that he kindly attended last week that considered blasphemy laws, particularly those that operate in countries such as Pakistan, and also the Pakistan penal code, which specifically requires the country’s significant Ahmadi minority, some 5 million people, to register as non-Muslims in order to be able to qualify to vote, thus disqualifying them from the franchise? Surely this is a law that needs to be overhauled.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I thank the noble Lord for chairing that meeting, all three APPGs which convened the meeting and all who attended. When we look at blasphemy laws around the world, they were in many ways a legacy of the days of Empire. It is important that we take a lead responsibility in ensuring that those who are now using laws that were intended to protect religions to discriminate against minority communities, such as the Ahmadi Muslim community and Christian communities, are met on the front foot and that we deal with it directly and bilaterally. Equally, when those laws are used to discriminate on important issues such as excluding people from elections, as they are in Pakistan, they should also be called out for what they are: they are straightforwardly discriminatory and should be eliminated and eradicated.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, one minute we are being told that we should beware of the ills of neo-colonialism, and the next moment we are telling sovereign Governments in the Commonwealth how to conduct their affairs.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

All I will say to my noble friend, whom I listen to attentively on every occasion, is that I used and stressed the words “in partnership with”.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 3.

1: Clause 1, page 2, line 10, at end insert—
“(ea) provide accountability for or be a deterrent to gross violations of human rights, or otherwise promote—
(i) compliance with international human rights law, or
(ii) respect for human rights,”

3: Clause 1, page 2, line 15, leave out “human rights,”

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the abuse of human rights was an issue of significant concern to both your Lordships’ House and the other place, as was made clear by many people who spoke at various stages of the Bill. The Government fully recognise why noble Lords and Members of the other place wished to reference gross human rights abuses explicitly, particularly in reference to the abhorrent case of Sergei Magnitsky. In her speech to the other House on 14 March, the Prime Minister made clear the Government’s intention to bring forward a “Magnitsky amendment” to the Bill. As a result, the Government worked closely and constructively with all sides of the other House to table these amendments, which have captured the maximum possible consensus in this area.

Commons Amendment 1 puts gross human rights abuses in the Bill as a purpose for which sanctions may be imposed. Commons Amendment 5 links the existing definition of a,

“gross violation of human rights”,

to the definition in the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, and so ensures that it includes the torture of a person,

“by a public official, or a person acting in an official capacity”,

where the tortured person has sought to,

“expose illegal activity carried out by a public official”,

or to defend,

“human rights and fundamental freedoms”.

This makes it clear that all gross human rights abuses or violations are explicitly captured within the Bill. Commons Amendments 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 14, 15, 19 and 20 are consequential on the changes to Clause 1.

Amendment 17 requires reports to be made about the use of the power to make sanctions regulations. Reports must identify regulations that have been made for human rights purposes. They must also specify any recommendations made by a parliamentary committee about the use of that power in relation to gross human rights violations, and include the Government’s response to any recommendations. It is right and proper that scrutiny of the regulations is carried out by Parliament.

Commons Amendment 16 was tabled in recognition of the concerns, raised by both the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and the Joint Committee on Human Rights, that the repeal of Part 1 of the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010—TAFA—would remove the independent reviewer’s oversight of the UK’s counter-terrorism asset freezes. I can assure all noble Lords that there was never any intention by the Government to remove independent oversight of the UK’s counter- terrorism asset-freezing regulations made under this Bill. That is why a carefully drafted government amendment was tabled in the other place to replicate effectively the scope of the independent oversight currently provided under TAFA. This ensures that there will be no removal or narrowing of the oversight of counterterrorism asset freezes as a result of the Bill.

The amendment also makes the Government’s commitment to this clear by imposing a duty to appoint an independent reviewer. The duty applies to any part of sanctions regulations that imposes asset freezes that are not made for a purpose that implements international obligations in this area but would further the prevention of terrorism. This is consistent with the scope of the independent oversight provided for under TAFA, thereby ensuring there is no removal or narrowing of the oversight of counterterrorism asset freezes as a result of the Bill.

I put it on record again that the Government are committed to promoting and strengthening universal human rights, and holding to account states and individuals responsible for the most serious violations. We will continue to do this after we leave the European Union and we intend that the powers in the Bill should allow us to be part of a global network of like-minded jurisdictions, working together to tackle those who commit gross human rights violations. We will continue to work with international partners to this end. I beg to move.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, it is good to turn to a period of calm after the clash and clamour of Brexit. I congratulate the Government on responding to the pressures in this House and the other place, and on taking a stand that I hope will be followed by other countries where appropriate. The current amendments relate to sanctions on the perpetrators of human rights abuses, wherever committed, and against individuals rather than states. They are therefore smart sanctions and I congratulate Sir Alan Duncan in the other place and those who have worked together. The Minister stressed that it was an all-party group and I believe the amendments in the other place were signed by all parties. This is therefore very important.

I congratulate also Bill Browder, who has worked tirelessly following the murder in custody of Sergei Magnitsky. These amendments are made in the context of the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury and the murder of Magnitsky in Russia in 2009, but they are clearly not limited to Russia. They are much broader and universal, just as the Magnitsky Act of 2012 in the US was, in 2016, broadened to include perpetrators of gross human rights abuses wherever committed. As the Prime Minister has said:

“There is no place for these people—or their money—in our country”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. From the outset, I thank Members for their engagement during this Bill, both in your Lordships’ House or in the other place. I commend the efforts of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, my noble friend Lord Faulks and others who over a lengthy period of time, from all sides of the Chamber, have talked on the importance of such a clause. I am mindful that I do not see the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, in her place, but I know that she has a Private Member’s Bill in this respect as well, and I acknowledge her efforts in that regard.

I shall pick up on the specific points. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, asked when the Bill was likely to be implemented in relation to all things considered around Brexit. As he acknowledges, the Bill provides the framework to impose sanctions, and under the Bill will sit a series of regulations that will put specific sanctions regimes into place. This will be done in accordance with the timetable of Brexit. He also asked about the implementation period, which we will have to take into account. As some of the specifics come on board on this, I shall share them with your Lordships’ House. He also asked about the procedure for listing individuals. The sanctions regulations will be set out, and the activities targeted by sanctions. If the Minister concerned has sufficient evidence to meet the thresholds in the Bill, they can place a person on an administrative list of designated persons to whom sanctions apply. That list will also be made public.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and my noble friend Lord Faulks asked about encouraging others. As I have said during the Bill, when it comes to sanctions generally—and specifically on this clause—I can assure them that the UK will continue to play a leading and constructive role. As such, we will continue to work with all our international partners to achieve the maximum consensus possible on issues of concern to the UK, including those in these clauses.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and her team for her engagement on this Bill. She asked specifically about the reports and their frequency. They will be made annually, and the report to Parliament will also be laid before Parliament as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Hain, raised important issues around South Africa and the SRA’s withdrawal of the registration around Hogan Lovells. I have listened, as I always do, to his various contributions very carefully, and shall ensure that his concerns are relayed to the relevant departments and authorities.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked whether the Minister can confirm whether safeguards could apply on HR sanctions. I am always mindful when he asks questions because he knows the answer already, and I am pleased to answer very shortly and succinctly—yes, they will.

Motion agreed.

Motion on Amendment 4

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Moved by

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 4.

4: Clause 1, page 2, line 37, after “to” insert “17, (Enforcement: goods etc on ships), (Goods etc on ships: non-UK conduct) and”

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, this amendment relates to the important area of enforcing trade sanctions on board ships outside of UK territorial waters. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has an amendment in this respect, and I am cognisant that the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee has expressed some concerns. I assure him and your Lordships’ House that I commit to respond to the committee in writing. In the meantime, I hope that I can reassure noble Lords about the necessity and appropriateness of these powers.

In a moment, I will turn to the specific issues which the committee has raised. I want to make it clear from the outset that these powers are needed to address exceptional and potentially dangerous situations in which goods sanctioned by the UK are being transported to or from a sanctioned country in international and foreign waters; to ensure adherence to the standards set out in the relevant UN Security Council resolutions; and to provide protection against the transportation of dangerous and harmful goods in international waters—strengthening our ability to counter foreign policy and national security threats via the enforcement of sanctions regimes. Especially in light of recent events, noble Lords will appreciate that it is both necessary and important for the UK to have such powers and that is why we have sought to include these clauses.

Amendment 11 would enable UK officials to board and search ships where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that the ship is carrying sanctioned goods or technology. Amendment 12 also allows these powers to be exercised in circumstances where Amendment 11 does not apply but where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that the ship is carrying goods that would be sanctioned if there were a UK link. The powers could be exercised against British ships in both foreign and international waters, and against foreign and stateless ships in international waters. These clauses would also allow officials to seize goods that are being dealt with in contravention, or deemed contravention, of sanctions regulations.

Amendment 18 would allow the procedures for dealing with goods once seized to be set out in regulations. We expect these powers to be exercised, for example, in circumstances where the UK is aware that a ship is carrying goods such as components of chemical weapons, military materials heading towards a conflict zone in breach of an arms embargo, or even illicit nuclear materials heading towards a sanctioned state.

The clauses contain important safeguards limiting the use of these powers. The Bill makes it clear that there must be reasonable grounds to suspect that the ship in question is carrying sanctioned goods before any action can be taken. Further, consent from a foreign state is required before these powers can be exercised in relation to a British ship in foreign waters. The powers may be exercised in relation to a foreign ship in international waters only with the authorisation of the Secretary of State, which may be given only in certain limited circumstances, thereby ensuring that these powers will be used only on foreign ships with either flag-state consent or under the authority of international law. Where there is no flag state, as in the case of a stateless ship, such safeguards are not required as the ship is not subject to the jurisdiction of, and protection from, any other state.

These powers are analogous to those contained in other provisions of domestic legislation. For example, Chapter 5 of the Policing and Crime Act 2017 allows for these same powers to be exercised in circumstances where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that an offence under the law of England and Wales is being committed on board a ship in international waters. We intend to confer these new powers on the same UK authorities which are already capable of exercising those existing powers, namely constables, NCA officers and customs officials. In addition, we intend to add commissioned officers of Her Majesty’s ships to that list, as we expect that the Navy is likely to be the authority best placed to exercise these powers in respect of ships in international waters. This is not a novel approach as such officers are, for example, already designated maritime enforcement officers under the Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Act 1990.

I draw noble Lords’ attention to the fact that the various maritime enforcement powers contained in existing legislation go further in some respects. For example, they allow for the arrest and detention of persons on board the ship. The purpose of these powers is not to target individuals, but to ensure that we can prevent the improper transportation of goods to or from a sanctioned country. These maritime powers are both necessary and important because the UK has legal obligations to enforce sanctions regimes on board British ships whether these ships are in domestic waters or not, which these powers will allow us to do. The UK also has legal obligations to seize and dispose of UN-sanctioned goods; we will be able to meet those under these powers. The UN Security Council also calls on the UK to search foreign ships for such goods, and expects the same approach to be taken in relation to stateless ships. The powers contained in this clause will allow us to do this as well.

On the concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee in particular, I will explain why these amendments provide for the powers to be set out in regulations. This mirrors the approach that has been taken to the sanctions Bill as a whole. The Bill sets out the framework to be applied in sanctions regulations. The purpose of these maritime powers is to enforce UK trade sanctions, and so they should be exercisable in relation to any country on which trade sanctions have been imposed by the United Kingdom. For the sake of clarity and accessibility, it makes sense for there to be one regulation per sanctions regime which sets out all the detail pertaining to that regime, and that includes these powers.

However, it must be remembered that almost all the detail around these powers has been set out in the primary legislation already: the nature of the coercive powers that may be exercised, the circumstances in which these powers must be exercised, and the nature of the procedure that is to be followed when goods have been seized under these powers. Ministers therefore have very little discretion about what can be set out in the regulations in relation to these powers. For this reason, we consider this approach to be appropriate. For the same reasons, we consider that there is no reason for any additional parliamentary scrutiny of sanctions regulations based on the inclusion of these powers in those regulations, beyond the parliamentary scrutiny already provided for in the Bill in relation to those regulations.

The Delegated Powers Committee has also raised concerns about the particular wording of Amendments 11 and 12 and about whether the powers set out there are a non-exhaustive list. I reassure noble Lords that there is no intention to exercise any coercive powers that are not explicitly set out in Amendments 11 and 12. Indeed, if the intention was to have additional powers to take any other coercive action of the sort provided for in these amendments, one would expect the primary legislation to set out those additional powers, and it does not do so.

Turning briefly to the other amendments in this group, Amendments 4, 13, 23 and 30 are consequential on these clauses. Amendment 4 would ensure that the reference to supplemental provision, in Clause 1, includes these clauses. Amendment 13 ensures that the exercise of these powers in international and foreign waters is not limited by Clause 19 on extraterritorial application. Amendment 23 would ensure that the Bill does not affect powers exercised by the royal prerogative in relation to ships, and Amendment 30 would allow amendments to be made to the Customs and Excise Management Act to be able to properly enforce UK sanctions.

These maritime powers are necessary and important to ensure that we can take steps against the transportation of dangerous and harmful goods in international waters. Their inclusion in the Bill is an important step in enhancing the integrity and impact of sanctions regimes. I beg to move.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords, I read the report of the Delegated Powers Committee on Friday and thought that I needed to act immediately, because I wanted to ensure that this House had the opportunity to fully debate its implications. I welcome what the Minister said and his commitment to respond fully to the committee’s report.

With regard to the powers, one of the biggest concerns at Second Reading in this House, through to Committee, has been the power grab—the concept of legislation being made by regulation, which seems to be expanding the whole time. I was particularly concerned about Clause 4 and how its powers appear not to be limited. I know that we have safeguards in the Bill, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, who is not in his place, for moving substantial amendments, which the Government listened to, on how you can confine and constrain the powers that are needed. We know that at some time in the future, a Government will simply look at what the law gives them power to do and use it, because it could apply in different circumstances. Therefore I was responding in particular to Clause 4 and the committee’s report. I hear what the Minister said about the safeguards and the constraints on Ministers in making regulations, and I hope that other noble Lords will be satisfied with the response. At this stage, I am.

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[Lord Pannick]

I am very disappointed—at other noble Lords are—at the approach of the Government. All these points were fully debated at Second Reading, in Committee and on Report, and the constant theme across the House was that it was vital to constrain the powers that Ministers were giving themselves in relation to the Bill. The Minister was very receptive to those concerns and accepted a number of amendments, and it is therefore very disappointing that at this very late stage we see again the same vice. So I share the disappointment and regret that, given the stage we are at, it is too late to do anything about it. But I hope that the Minister will take back to his department our concern and the promise—it is not a threat—that, if similar powers are put before us in another Bill, no doubt noble Lords will have more to say about it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their comments on this amendment and, of course, I have noted what all noble Lords said and the concerns they expressed. Let me assure them once again—I mention in particular the noble Baroness, who mentioned Amendments 11 and 12—that I will address specifically the powers of the Minister, and give the assurance once again that a detailed response will be provided to the Delegated Powers Committee. I am seeking to ensure that this response will be provided before the Recess.

Motion on Amendment 4 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 5 to 8.

5: Clause 1, page 2, line 37, at end insert—
“(6A) In this Act any reference to a gross violation of human rights is to conduct which—
(a) constitutes, or
(b) is connected with,
the commission of a gross human rights abuse or violation; and whether conduct constitutes or is connected with the commission of such an abuse or violation is to be determined in accordance with section 241A of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.”

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 9 and 10.

9: Clause 17, page 16, line 12, at end insert—
“( ) Regulations—
(a) may create criminal offences for the purposes of the enforcement of prohibitions or requirements mentioned in subsection (2)(a) or (b) or for the purposes of preventing such prohibitions or requirements from being circumvented, and
(b) may include provision dealing with matters relating to any offences created for such purposes by regulations (including provision that creates defences).
( ) Regulations may not provide for an offence under regulations to be punishable with imprisonment for a period exceeding—
(a) in the case of conviction on indictment, 10 years;
(b) in the case of summary conviction—
(i) in relation to England and Wales, 12 months or, in relation to offences committed before section 154(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 comes into force, 6 months;
(ii) in relation to Scotland, 12 months;
(iii) in relation to Northern Ireland, 6 months.”

10: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause—
“Report in respect of offences in regulations
(1) In this section “relevant regulations” means regulations under section 1 which create any offence for the purposes of—
(a) the enforcement of any prohibitions or requirements imposed by or under regulations under section 1, or
(b) preventing any such prohibitions or requirements from being circumvented.
(2) The appropriate Minister making any relevant regulations (“the Minister”) must at the required time lay before Parliament a report which—
(a) specifies the offences created by the regulations, indicating the prohibitions or requirements to which those offences relate,
(b) states that the Minister considers that there are good reasons for those prohibitions or requirements to be enforceable by criminal proceedings and explains why the Minister is of that opinion, and
(c) in the case of any of those offences which are punishable with imprisonment—
(i) states the maximum terms of imprisonment that apply to those offences,
(ii) states that the Minister considers that there are good reasons for those maximum terms, and
(iii) explains why the Minister is of that opinion.
(3) Subsection (4) applies where an offence created by the regulations relates to a particular prohibition or requirement and the Minister considers that a good reason—
(a) for that prohibition or requirement to be enforceable by criminal proceedings, or
(b) for a particular maximum term of imprisonment to apply to that offence,
is consistency with another enactment relating to the enforcement of a similar prohibition or requirement.
(4) The report must identify that other enactment.
(5) In subsection (3) “another enactment” means any provision of or made under an Act, other than a provision of the regulations to which the report relates.
(6) In subsection (2) “the required time” means—
(a) in the case of regulations contained in a statutory instrument which is laid before Parliament after being made, the same time as the instrument is laid before Parliament;
(b) in the case of regulations contained in a statutory instrument a draft of which is laid before Parliament, the same time as the draft is laid.
(7) This section applies to regulations which amend other regulations under section 1 so as to create an offence as it applies to regulations which otherwise create an offence.”

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we now come to the important issue of criminal offences. This group of amendments would allow powers in the Bill to be used to create criminal offences and penalties in regulations for both sanctions and money laundering breaches, subject to new safeguards.

I say at the outset that I recognise that your Lordships’ House had serious concerns about the inclusion of these powers, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, in particular, remains very concerned. I assure all noble Lords that once the Bill left your Lordships’ House we continued to listen to those concerns and have sought to address them. That is why these amendments also include an important new procedural safeguard of a requirement to report to Parliament, meaning that the Government have to inform Parliament specifically about the use of the powers to create criminal offences in secondary legislation. This is intended to enable Parliament to be better informed about the use of these powers and to be able to properly hold the Minister to account.

I shall go through each of the amendments in more detail. Amendments 9 and 21 restore the ability to provide for criminal offences and penalties in sanctions and money laundering regulations. In tabling these amendments, I acknowledge your Lordships’ recognition of the importance of rigorous anti-money laundering and sanctions regimes. In order to ensure the robustness of future sanctions and anti-money laundering regulations, corresponding powers to create criminal offences for breaches of those future regimes are necessary so as to preserve the ability of future Governments to impose effective and dissuasive sanctions for breaches of regulations.

I recognise that some in your Lordships’ House had concerns about the scope of these powers when the Bill was first introduced. These amendments address those concerns through additional safeguards, which must be met before the powers can be used. When I come to Amendments 31, 32 and 34, I shall elaborate upon the safeguards, which the Government have discussed with noble Lords since the Bill’s passage through this House.

The amendments restore our ability to enforce sanctions. As noble Lords are aware, sanctions are used to prevent serious threats to national and international peace and security. It is therefore right that breach of them is a criminal offence, and it is also right that penalties should be set at a level that acts as a proper deterrent for these serious crimes. The Bill gives us the ability to set penalties at up to 10 years’ imprisonment, but that does not mean that we will set them at the maximum in every case.

In respect of trade sanctions, offences for breaches of prohibitions made under the Export Control Act 2002 all have maximum penalties of 10 years’ imprisonment. That does not apply to the trade sanction prohibitions created under the European Communities Act 1972, which are capped at two years’ imprisonment, despite the breaches being just as serious a matter. This Bill will enable us to remedy that disparity by harmonising maximum penalties for breaches of all trade sanctions at 10 years.

Currently, breaches of financial sanctions can be punished by up to seven years’ imprisonment, and we plan to continue to set penalties at this level for financial sanctions. We also plan for breaches of other sanctions, such as transport sanctions, to have penalties set to match this level. There will also be offences, such as the failure to provide information when required to do so by law, that require lesser penalties, such as up to two years’ imprisonment, and we do not plan to increase penalties in those areas either.

I have set out in previous debates how the enforceability of new regulations would be seriously weakened without the power to create criminal offences, and how it is not unusual for requirements in delegated legislation to be enforced using criminal penalties. I now turn to the procedural safeguards we have introduced, which I hope will constitute sufficient reassurance to noble Lords who have expressed concerns.

Amendments 10, 25 and 32 introduce the important safeguard of requiring the Government to lay a report before Parliament whenever criminal offences are created or amended in sanctions regulations made under Clause 1 or in anti-money laundering regulations made under Clause 43. The amendments require the report to be laid at the same time as the regulations are laid or when the draft statutory instrument containing the relevant regulations is laid, depending on which parliamentary procedure is used. The report will facilitate effective parliamentary scrutiny of future use of criminal offences in sanctions regulations and goes further than the status quo in enabling Parliament to scrutinise the creation of criminal offences through sanctions or money laundering regulations.

The amendment specifies what elements should be included in these reports. Specifically, this will include: first, the details of the offences that have been created and the requirements to which they refer; secondly, the good reasons why a breach of these requirements should be enforced via criminal offences; thirdly, the maximum prison terms for any offences created which are punishable by imprisonment; and, fourthly, the reasons why those maximum terms have been set at the level they have. I trust noble Lords will agree that these reports will provide increased transparency as to the reasons for creating future criminal offences, and so give both Houses of Parliament a new and solid basis for holding the Government to account on the use of these powers when debating regulations made under the Bill. Nevertheless, the Government remain very aware that creating criminal offences and setting penalties in regulations is a serious matter and not one to be undertaken lightly. We hope that these amendments address that.

I would also like to take this opportunity to assure your Lordships’ House that the requirement contained in Amendment 25—for a Minister, when for whatever reason a report is not laid on time, to make a statement about that failure to the House—does not in any way circumvent the obligation to make the statement. It is an additional requirement, meant to create a further obligation to Parliament that if, for example, there has been some administrative error in publishing a statement, Ministers must provide an explanation to Parliament for that failure.

Amendment 31 is consequential to new paragraph 20A inserted by Amendment 32. The envisaged paragraph 20A(1) of Schedule 2 clarifies the scope of potential offences created for the purposes of the enforcement of requirements imposed by or under regulations under Clause 43.

Amendment 32 also makes the power to create criminal offences in money laundering regulations subject to the requirement for a report to Parliament along the same lines as the amendments for Part 1 of the Bill. This amendment clarifies that the scope of the power for creating future offences is restricted to offences for the purposes of enforcing future anti-money laundering regulations. It is both necessary and, importantly, proportionate.

Amendment 34 ensures that references made to regulations made under Clause 43, with respect to paragraph 15 of Schedule 2, and requirements imposed by regulations made under Clause 43, with respect to paragraph 20A of Schedule 2, also include reference to or requirements imposed by the Money Laundering Regulations 2017. This amendment ensures that new money laundering offences can be created by amending the Money Laundering Regulations 2017. It will therefore enable the Government to create new offences in order to respond, for example, to emerging risks identified by the national risk assessment of money laundering and terrorist financing, which was published in October of last year, or in response to the ongoing review by the Financial Action Task Force of the UK’s anti-money laundering and counterterrorist finance regime. I beg to move.

[Lord Pannick]

My Lords, in the early stages of this Bill, my noble and learned friend Lord Judge, who is not in his place, expressed the concerns that many of us felt about Ministers being given a power to create new criminal offences and, indeed, to specify maximum sentences. I am very pleased that the Government have recognised a need for safeguards in this context. This is an exceptional circumstance, and I very much hope that the Government will not see this as a precedent to be used in other contexts.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the potential creation of new criminal offences by Ministers was of course the subject of major debate in the Lords, and the Government were defeated. It is the Government’s compromise that we are considering here. I know that the Government and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, spent a great deal of time on this, as did my noble friend Lady Bowles. Noble Lords did not quite get to where they would have liked, but I know that they thought progress had been made. We are therefore content to accept the position that we have reached. However, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, makes an important point about this not being a precedent.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness who have spoken. When this issue left your Lordships’ House, I emphasised and assured noble Lords that we would continue to work, particularly, with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and officials continue to do so. Every time I saw him in a Division Lobby or outside it—often he was going in the opposite direction, but we will park that for a moment—he reassured me that progress was being made, and this is the culmination of that. I thank noble Lords for their support.

Motion on Amendments 9 and 10 agreed.

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 11.

11: Insert the following new Clause—
“Enforcement: goods etc on ships
(1) The provision that may be made by virtue of section 17(2) (enforcement of prohibitions or requirements) includes provision as to the powers and duties of prescribed persons in relation to—
(a) British ships in foreign waters or international waters,
(b) ships without nationality in international waters, and
(c) foreign ships in international waters.
(2) Regulations may make provision by virtue of this section only for the purpose of enforcing relevant prohibitions or requirements.
(3) A prohibition or requirement is a “relevant prohibition or requirement” for the purposes of this section if it is—
(a) a prohibition or requirement specified by the regulations which is imposed by regulations for a purpose mentioned in any of paragraphs 2 to 7, 15(a), (b) or (c) or 16(a) of Schedule 1, or
(b) a prohibition or requirement imposed by a condition of a licence or direction issued by virtue of section 15 in relation to a prohibition or requirement mentioned in paragraph (a).
(4) The powers that may be conferred by virtue of this section include powers to—
(a) stop a ship;
(b) board a ship;
(c) require any person found on a ship boarded by virtue of this section to provide information or produce documents;
(d) inspect and copy such documents or information;
(e) stop any person found on such a ship and search that person for—
(i) prohibited goods, or
(ii) any thing that might be used to cause physical injury or damage to property or to endanger the safety of any ship;
(f) search a ship boarded by virtue of this section, or any thing found on such a ship (including cargo), for prohibited goods;
(g) seize goods found on a ship, in any thing found on a ship, or on any person found on a ship (but see subsection (8));
(h) for the purpose of exercising a power mentioned in paragraph (e), (f) or (g), require a ship to be taken to, and remain in, a port or anchorage in the United Kingdom or any other country willing to receive it.
(5) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (4)(a) to (f) or (h) must provide that a person may not exercise the power in relation to a ship unless the person has reasonable grounds to suspect that the ship is carrying prohibited goods (and the regulations need not require the person to have reasonable grounds to suspect that an offence is being or has been committed).
(6) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (4)(e)(i) or (f) must provide that the power may be exercised only to the extent reasonably required for the purpose of discovering prohibited goods.
(7) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (4)(e)(ii) on a person (“the officer”) may permit the search of a person only where the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that that person might use a thing in a way mentioned in subsection (4)(e)(ii).
(8) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (4)(g) on a person—
(a) must provide for the power to be exercisable on a ship only where that person is lawfully on the ship (whether in exercise of powers conferred by virtue of this section or otherwise), and
(b) may permit the seizure only of—
(i) goods which that person has reasonable grounds to suspect are prohibited goods, or
(ii) things within subsection (4)(e)(ii).
(9) Regulations that confer a power on a person by virtue of this section may authorise that person to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of the power.
(10) Regulations that confer a power by virtue of this section must provide that—
(a) the power may be exercised in relation to a British ship in foreign waters only with the authority of the Secretary of State, and
(b) in relation to foreign waters other than the sea and other waters within the seaward limits of the territorial sea adjacent to any relevant British possession, the Secretary of State may give authority only if the State in whose waters the power would be exercised consents to the exercise of the power.
(11) Regulations that confer a power by virtue of this section must provide that—
(a) the power may be exercised in relation to a foreign ship only with the authority of the Secretary of State, and
(b) the Secretary of State may give authority only if—
(i) the home state has requested the assistance of the United Kingdom for the purpose of enforcing relevant prohibitions or requirements,
(ii) the home state has authorised the United Kingdom to act for that purpose, or
(iii) the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (Cmnd 8941) or a UN Security Council Resolution otherwise permits the exercise of the powers in relation to the ship.
(12) The reference in subsection (11) to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea includes a reference to any modifications of that Convention agreed after the passing of this Act that have entered into force in relation to the United Kingdom.
(13) In this section—
“arrangements” includes any agreement, understanding, scheme, transaction or series of transactions (whether or not legally enforceable);
“British ship” means a ship falling within paragraph (a), (c), (d) or (e) of section 7(12);
“foreign ship” means a ship which—
(a) is registered in a State other than the United Kingdom, or
(b) is not so registered but is entitled to fly the flag of a State other than the United Kingdom;
“foreign waters” means the sea and other waters within the seaward limits of the territorial sea adjacent to any relevant British possession or State other than the United Kingdom;
“goods” includes technology within the meaning of Schedule 1 (see paragraph 36 of that Schedule);
“home state”, in relation to a foreign ship, means—
(a) the State in which the ship is registered, or
(b) the State whose flag the ship is otherwise entitled to fly; “international waters” means waters beyond the territorial sea of the United Kingdom or of any other State or relevant British possession;
“prohibited goods” means goods which have been, or are being, dealt with in contravention of a relevant prohibition or requirement (see subsection (3));
“regulations” means regulations under section 1;
“relevant British possession” has the same meaning as in section 7 (see subsection (14) of that section);
“ship” has the same meaning as in section 7 (see subsection (14) of that section);
“ship without nationality” means a ship which—
(a) is not registered in, or otherwise entitled to fly the flag of, any State or relevant British possession, or
(b) sails under the flags of two or more States or relevant British possessions, or under the flags of a State and relevant British possession, using them according to convenience.
(14) In the definition of “prohibited goods” in subsection (13), the reference to goods dealt with in contravention of a relevant prohibition or requirement includes a reference to a case where—
(a) arrangements relating to goods have been entered into that have not been fully implemented, and
(b) if those arrangements were to be fully implemented, the goods would be dealt with in contravention of that prohibition or requirement.”

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 12.

12: Insert the following new Clause—
“Goods etc on ships: non-UK conduct
(1) Regulations may make provision conferring on prescribed persons powers exercisable—
(a) in relation to—
(i) British ships in foreign waters or international waters,
(ii) ships without nationality in international waters, and
(iii) foreign ships in international waters,
(b) for the purpose of—
(i) investigating the suspected carriage of relevant goods on such ships, or
(ii) preventing the continued carriage on such ships of goods suspected to be relevant goods.
(2) The powers that may be conferred by virtue of this section include powers to—
(a) stop a ship;
(b) board a ship;
(c) require any person found on a ship boarded by virtue of this section to provide information or produce documents;
(d) inspect and copy such documents or information;
(e) stop any person found on such a ship and search that person for—
(i) relevant goods, or
(ii) any thing that might be used to cause physical injury or damage to property or to endanger the safety of any ship;
(f) search a ship boarded by virtue of this section, or any thing found on such a ship (including cargo), for relevant goods;
(g) seize goods found on a ship, in any thing found on a ship, or on any person found on a ship (but see subsection (6));
(h) for the purpose of exercising a power mentioned in paragraph (e), (f) or (g), require a ship to be taken to, and remain in, a port or anchorage in the United Kingdom or any other country willing to receive it.
(3) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (2)(a) to (f) or (h) must provide that a person may not exercise the power in relation to a ship unless the person has reasonable grounds to suspect that the ship is carrying relevant goods.
(4) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (2)(e)(i) or (f) must provide that the power may be exercised only to the extent reasonably required for the purpose of discovering relevant goods.
(5) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (2)(e)(ii) on a person (“the officer”) may permit the search of a person only where the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that that person might use a thing in a way mentioned in subsection (2)(e)(ii).
(6) Regulations that confer a power mentioned in subsection (2)(g) on a person—
(a) must provide for the power to be exercisable on a ship only where that person is lawfully on the ship (whether in exercise of powers conferred by virtue of this section or otherwise), and
(b) may permit the seizure only of—
(i) goods which that person has reasonable grounds to suspect are relevant goods, or
(ii) things within subsection (2)(e)(ii).
(7) Regulations that confer a power on a person by virtue of this section may authorise that person to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of the power.
(8) Regulations that confer a power by virtue of this section must provide that—
(a) the power may be exercised in relation to a British ship in foreign waters only with the authority of the Secretary of State, and
(b) in relation to foreign waters other than the sea and other waters within the seaward limits of the territorial sea adjacent to any relevant British possession, the Secretary of State may give authority only if the State in whose waters the power would be exercised consents to the exercise of the power.
(9) Regulations that confer a power by virtue of this section must provide that—
(a) the power may be exercised in relation to a foreign ship only with the authority of the Secretary of State, and
(b) the Secretary of State may give authority only if—
(i) the home state has requested the assistance of the United Kingdom for a purpose mentioned in subsection (1)(b),
(ii) the home state has authorised the United Kingdom to act for such a purpose, or
(iii) the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 (Cmnd 8941) or a UN Security Council Resolution otherwise permits the exercise of the powers in relation to the ship.
(10) The reference in subsection (9) to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea includes a reference to any modifications of that Convention agreed after the passing of this Act that have entered into force in relation to the United Kingdom.
(11) In this section—
“regulations” means regulations under section 1;
“relevant goods” means goods in relation to which relevant non-UK conduct is occurring or has occurred;
“relevant non-UK conduct” means conduct outside the United Kingdom by a person other than a United Kingdom person that would constitute a contravention of a relevant prohibition or requirement if the conduct had been—
(a) in the United Kingdom, or
(b) by a United Kingdom person;
“relevant prohibition or requirement” has the same meaning as in section (Enforcement: goods etc on ships) (see subsection (3) of that section);
“United Kingdom person” has the same meaning as in section 18 (see subsection (2) of that section).
(12) In the definition of “relevant non-UK conduct” in subsection (11), the reference to conduct that would constitute a contravention of a relevant prohibition or requirement if the conduct had been in the United Kingdom or by a United Kingdom person includes a reference to a case where—
(a) arrangements relating to goods have been entered into that have not been fully implemented, and
(b) if those arrangements were to be fully implemented (and if the conduct had been in the United Kingdom or by a United Kingdom person) the goods would be dealt with in contravention of that prohibition or requirement.
(13) In this section, the following expressions have the same meaning as in section (Enforcement: goods etc on ships)—
“arrangements”,
“British ship”,
“foreign ship”,
“foreign waters”,
“goods”,
“home state”,
“international waters”,
“relevant British possession”,
“ship”, and
“ship without nationality”.”

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 13 to 21.

13: Clause 18, page 17, line 13, at end insert—
“( ) Nothing in this section limits the provision that may be made in regulations under section 1 by virtue of section (Enforcement: goods etc on ships) or (Goods etc on ships: non-UK conduct).”

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 22.

22: After Clause 44, insert the following new Clause—
“Public registers of beneficial ownership of companies registered in British Overseas Territories
(1) For the purposes of the detection, investigation or prevention of money laundering, the Secretary of State must provide all reasonable assistance to the governments of the British Overseas Territories to enable each of those governments to establish a publicly accessible register of the beneficial ownership of companies registered in each government’s jurisdiction.
(2) The Secretary of State must, no later than 31 December 2020, prepare a draft Order in Council requiring the government of any British Overseas Territory that has not introduced a publicly accessible register of the beneficial ownership of companies within its jurisdiction to do so.
(3) The draft Order in Council under subsection (2) must set out the form that the register must take.
(4) If an Order in Council contains requirements of a kind mentioned in subsection (2)—
(a) it must be laid before Parliament after being made, and
(b) if not approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament before the end of 28 days beginning with the day on which it is made, it ceases to have effect at the end of that period (but without that affecting the power to make a new Order under this section).
(5) In calculating a period of 28 days for the purposes of subsection (4), no account is to be taken of any time during which Parliament is dissolved or prorogued or during which both Houses are adjourned for more than four days.
(6) For the purposes of this section, “British Overseas Territories” means a territory listed in Schedule 6 of the British Nationality Act 1981.
(7) For the purposes of this section, “a publicly accessible register of the beneficial ownership of companies” means a register which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, provides information broadly equivalent to that available in accordance with the provisions of Part 21A of the Companies Act 2006.”

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, Amendment 22 would put a duty on the Government to provide all reasonable assistance to our overseas territories to help them set up public registers of company beneficial ownership by 31 December 2020. If they do not do so, the amendment would require the Secretary of State to prepare a draft Order in Council requiring the Government of the overseas territories to introduce such registers.

Noble Lords are aware that the issue of the register of beneficial ownership was debated extensively in your Lordships’ House. I welcomed the insight and the expertise and, while there were differences of views, there was a robust debate. In this regard, the Government tabled on Report in the other place a package of amendments that sought to enhance the existing measures on beneficial ownership in the overseas territories but stopped short of the preparation of any legislation for the overseas territories ahead of the introduction of a public register as an international standard. As is his prerogative, Mr Speaker did not, however, select these amendments for debate. Therefore, the Government in the other place listened to the strength of feeling on this issue and accepted that it was the overwhelming view of the other place that the overseas territories should take steps to put public registers in place ahead of them becoming international standard as set by the Financial Action Task Force. Therefore, the Government did not oppose the new clause tabled by the right honourable Member for Sutton Coldfield and the right honourable Member for Barking.

Given the views expressed in the other place and the fact that we respect the will of Parliament, the Government do not now propose to table any new amendments. However, I would, nevertheless, like to make a number of points on this issue, not least as Minister for the Overseas Territories. I want to make it clear from the outset that we would have preferred a different approach to this question, as evidenced by the amendments we had tabled in the other place and my response to this debate in your Lordships’ House. Our approach has always been, and remains, as a priority to work consensually, constructively and collaboratively, with the overseas territories. Indeed, we have established strong channels with the overseas territories.

Let me be absolutely clear: the overseas territories are British, but they are separate jurisdictions with their own democratically elected Governments, responsible for their own fiscal matters and are not represented in this Parliament. We have legislated for them without their consent only in exceptional circumstances, for example to decriminalise homosexuality in certain territories to ensure that they were compliant with international human rights obligations. By contrast, financial services are an area of domestic responsibility for territory Governments, where they surpass—an important point to remember—international standards in the context of beneficial ownership. Legislating for these jurisdictions without their consent in this field effectively disenfranchises their elected representatives.

We are also fully cognisant of the territories’ concerns that the economic impact of imposing public registers on them will be significant—and these are not under normal circumstances. As noble Lords know, the British Virgin Islands, Anguilla and the Turks and Caicos Islands are still recovering from the two unprecedented category 5 hurricanes of last September. In the British Virgin Islands, nine out of 20 schools still remain closed and are accommodating their students in tents. The tourism industry has experienced a drop of 50% and is only now starting to recover. There remains a real risk that this will destabilise the reconstruction efforts of the hurricane affected territories, and all of this shortly before the next hurricane season begins in June. Accordingly, our preference would have been not to legislate in this manner without the territories’ consent, and let me assure noble Lords that our aim remains to work consensually and collaboratively with them to achieve the best possible outcome following the amendment.

As the reaction of the territories and their leaders has demonstrated, legislating for them without their consent risks damaging not only our long-standing constitutional arrangements respecting their autonomy but also our very proactive, positive and progressive relations with the overseas territories. Let me assure noble Lords that I have held a number of meetings with leaders and their London-based representatives since our debates at Report stage, and I have reaffirmed the importance that the United Kingdom attaches to our relationship with their jurisdictions. Equally, I would place on the record our gratitude to the overseas territories and to the Crown dependencies for the work that they have undertaken to implement the bilateral arrangements on the exchange of beneficial ownership information we concluded with them in 2016. In a relatively short timeframe, they have passed new primary legislation and delivered technological improvements to comply with the terms of these arrangements.

All Crown dependencies have central registers in place. Of the seven overseas territories with financial centres, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, Gibraltar and the Turks and Caicos Islands already have central registers or similarly effective systems in place. Montserrat has also committed to establishing a public register, and we have recently signed a memorandum of understanding with Anguilla to fund its electronic search platform. In the case of Anguilla, the British Virgin Islands and the Turks and Caicos Islands, progress has been made notwithstanding some of the most challenging circumstances caused by last year’s hurricanes.

These arrangements, which provide UK law enforcement authorities, on request, with access to beneficial ownership information within 24 hours and within one hour in urgent cases, are already bearing fruit. As of 8 February, they had been used more than 70 times and the information obtained by UK law enforcement authorities as a result has been used to enhance intelligence leads and to support ongoing criminal investigations into illicit finance. It is important that we continue to work with the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies to implement fully these arrangements and, where necessary, to make improvements to the mechanisms for the exchange of information. We also have the statutory review of these arrangements that will report to Parliament by July 2019, and I remain confident that that will provide further evidence to all concerned of the benefits this provides to law enforcement authorities.

We should be clear that the arrangements go beyond the current international standards set by the Financial Action Task Force; these do not yet require private, let alone public, registers, reflecting a lack of international consensus in this important area. Imposing public registers on the overseas territories now carries with it the risk of a flight of business from them to other less regulated jurisdictions where our law enforcement authorities would not have the same level of access to beneficial ownership information as they do under the existing arrangements.

The Government have been consistently clear about their desire for public registers to become the global standard. Let us also be clear that the overseas territories do not oppose this, once there is an international standard. As I set out in my Written Ministerial Statement on 1 May, the Government will use their best endeavours, diplomatically and with international partners, to promote public registers of company beneficial ownership as the global standard by 2023. We would also expect the Crown dependencies to adopt public registers in that event.

I should also like to take this opportunity to place on record my deep concern about some of the intemperate language that was used in the other place about our overseas territories. References to “slave labour” and “money will go to where it is darkest” are liable to be misconstrued and are quite unacceptable in this context.

I would also like to use this opportunity to rebut the widely held misconceptions about the overseas territories. They are important financial centres for investors around the world. They have successful industries because they comply with regulatory standards and have taken significant steps on transparency. All overseas territories with financial centres have committed to greater tax transparency, by adopting the new global OECD standard for the automatic exchange between jurisdictions of taxpayer financial account information, and have started to exchange this information. In addition, HMRC has received data since September 2016 on accounts held in the overseas territories by UK taxpayers. Taken together, these measures are an important tool in combating tax evasion, and we welcome the co-operation and collaboration that we have received from both the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies in this area.

I thank noble Lords for their indulgence in allowing me to put on record the Government’s position and our thoughts on where we currently are. The overseas territories are an important part of what constitutes Britain today. However, notwithstanding the arguments I have made, the other place has sought to change the basis. Let me reiterate, with the words with which I started, that the Government will ultimately respect the will of Parliament on this issue and will now work constructively and collaboratively with the overseas territories towards the best possible outcomes. Let me assure noble Lords—and our overseas territories as well—that we will use our best endeavours and a supportive, constructive and collaborative approach in the international sphere to promote public registers of company beneficial ownership as the global standard, so that we can, as the overseas territories agree, achieve a level playing field in this area—a principle that we are all agreed on. I beg to move.

Amendment 22A (as an amendment to the Motion on Amendment 22)

Moved by

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I welcome the commitment in the other place. I also welcome the fact that the Government decided not to oppose the amendment. It is now here because they did not oppose it. It is therefore right that the Government now determine how best to take it forward. It is a public commitment which I hope they will take forward. I do not underestimate the issues of concern raised by the overseas territories, nor their need to ensure a level playing field, because, after all, until we have global agreement, we will not stop this problem. How do we achieve that global agreement? I agree with David Cameron that it is about us taking the lead, and I am grateful that the House of Commons and the Government have now taken the decision to do that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for an extensive, well-reasoned, well-argued and expert debate in your Lordships’ House. I am grateful in particular to my noble friend Lord Naseby, who presented a case for the overseas territories which I empathise with. Noble Lords who were in the Chamber when I opened this debate would have heard the points that I made. I will respond to a few specific points and questions raised, but I want first to set the record straight. First and foremost, the Government’s position is what it was when the Bill left your Lordships’ House. As the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said, the Government defeated the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern. That was done because of reasoned debate and expert insight, which has been reflected in your Lordships’ House again today.

As my noble friend Lord Hunt said, my noble friend Lord Naseby has allowed us all an opportunity again to demonstrate the wisdom, insight and expertise your Lordships have, but the point of principle highlighted by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, remains: notwithstanding the valuable discourse that we have had, the House of Commons has sought to vote otherwise. In that regard, I want to clarify a few points.

My noble friend Lord Northbrook mentioned that it was a government amendment. Of course, it was not; it was tabled from the government Benches—it was a joint amendment. In light of the support that the amendment had gathered, the Government decided not to oppose it. My noble friend Lord Naseby referred to the Government’s amendment being tabled late in the day. Let me assure my noble friends and your Lordships’ House that we had been in extensive negotiations with many Members of Parliament, including those of other parties and most notably the Scottish National Party, on the important issues of the constitution and about this Parliament voting on something that would apply to parliaments that did not have a say in the debate taking place—a point well made by the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. We were trying to find a way forward that respected both the drive for transparency, which many noble Lords have raised today, and the constitutional settlement with the overseas territories and Crown dependencies. It was also important that we continued to do this to reach the cross-party consensus that was being sought. We brought further amendments forward on 30 April and brought that to the attention of the House to find that consensus. That is why conversations were still ongoing throughout that morning. The amendment we tabled was taken as in order but, as I said in my opening remarks, it was not then debated or taken for debate by the Speaker of the House of Commons.

That said, we have had an extensive debate. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, who I see is not in his place as such, asked for comment on the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report. We are looking at that report, which was issued this morning, carefully but the Prime Minister has made the general principle clear. I say to all noble Lords that there is not a difference between ourselves and the Governments of the overseas territories. Everyone wants to see us tackle illicit finance effectively. Let me assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that it remains a priority for this Government and that we will continue to take a leading role in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Beith, my noble friend Lord Naseby and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay all touched on the important issues of the constitutional arguments. Our position in the light of the circumstances set out in the 2012 White Paper has not changed. We believe that the fundamental structure of our constitutional relationships is the right one. Of course, we retain the power to legislate directly and have done so, as I said in my opening remarks, but in this case we would prefer not to have done so without consent. However, as we have all heard, we are all in this situation since the decision taken by the House of Commons.

My noble and learned friend Lord Mackay raised how this provision will come into force. As I always do, I listened carefully to his insight on this matter and I can confirm that it will not come into force through Royal Assent; it will come into force and commence by regulations. We need to establish the detail, as he said, but I listened carefully to the points he raised in this respect.

My noble friend Lord Faulks asked about the next Bill and I again pay tribute to his efforts in this regard. Let me assure him once again that we have committed to bring forward legislation early in the next Session on the important issue, which he has raised during debate on this Bill, of the register of overseas companies that own UK property. We anticipate that that register will be ready for use in 2021.

The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, pointed to other jurisdictions such as Gibraltar. At this point, I acknowledge the contributions of my noble friend Lord Naseby and other noble friends, and noble Lords across the Chamber, who acknowledged the efforts that our overseas territories have made. While I totally accept the principle highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, of the importance of transparency—of seeing that flow of illicit finance coming to an end—let us not forget that, in the UK, we have a public register. This is not a panacea to end this issue. It needs concerted action, which is why I have been vocal in my defence of the overseas territories and not just, as the noble Lord, Lord Beith, pointed out, because I am the Minister responsible. Genuinely, when we look at the track record from the overseas territories—the exchange of notes that are operational and which we are reporting back on, or the accessibility for tax and law enforcement agencies—those jurisdictions have been co-operating fully and effectively. That is why I, as the Minister responsible, made that robust defence of the overseas territories. Not only has progress been made; the overseas territories are ahead of the curve. There is just not a case for not doing something until the others catch up, as they are already fully co-operating.

Several noble Lords alluded to the EU list. Anguilla, Bermuda, the BVI, the Cayman Islands and all three Crown dependencies are not included on any list because they are deemed to have been holding back by the EU Code of Conduct Group. They have been put on lists and acknowledged for being co-operative jurisdictions. All our Crown dependencies and overseas territories with financial centres are already committed to global tax transparency standards, which we all agree on, and the commitments that they have made go beyond those. I say again for the record that there is no grey list. All the overseas territories, as the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, highlighted, have made great strides, ahead of many other jurisdictions, in ensuring that they adhere not to any international standard but to the principles of ensuring that they can address the fact that law authorities and tax authorities can access such registers.

That said, we are in a position where the other place has decided—on a cross-party basis in certain respects, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said—that it is its will to go forward with public registers for the overseas territories, and it is the Government’s position that we have accepted that point of the elected Chamber. In doing so, though, I assure my noble friend Lord Naseby and others who have spoken about the overseas territories that from a government perspective we will seek to ensure that we collaborate and co-operate fully and work with the overseas territories to ensure that we get the results we want. We do not want to disable the overseas territories and we do not want them to lose out, but there is a reality of decisions that this Parliament has taken, and they have implications. We need to ensure that we work effectively and collaboratively with those overseas territories to ensure that we can still sustain and strengthen their economies for years to come.

I put on record for my noble friend Lord Naseby that I am very grateful to him for once again allowing me to articulate the Government’s position and my position as the Minister responsible for the overseas territories. I am also grateful for, as I am sure my noble friend has acknowledged, the great and wise expertise that we have heard from around your Lordships’ House, demonstrating again the wise insight on this subject and many. However, mindful of the fact that the other place has decided to pursue the issue of public registers with the overseas territories, an amendment that the Government have now accepted, I hope that after listening to the debate my noble friend is minded to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, those were fine words from the Minister, and we have heard fine words from my colleagues who have supported me this evening. I hope those fine words have some strength behind them. Many noble Lords will know that I have been in the two Houses for 44 years. I deeply respect the rights of the House of Commons, so it is not with an easy heart that I resist the temptation to test the views of this House.

I have reflected deeply on this. I am trusting my noble friend on the Front Bench to move this forward. As my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern said: justice for all—which means, in particular, justice for all the overseas territories. I shall watch, be vigilant and challenge, but on this occasion I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 23.

23: Clause 46, page 34, line 25, at end insert—
“( ) Nothing in this Act affects any power exercisable in relation to ships by virtue of the prerogative of the Crown.”

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Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 24.

24: Clause 47, page 34, line 38, leave out subsection (3) and insert—
“(3) Regulations under section 1 may amend the definition of “terrorist financing” in section 43(4) so as to remove any reference to a provision of regulations that is revoked by regulations under section 1.
(3A) Regulations under section 1 may amend the definition of “terrorist financing” in section 43(4) so as to add a reference to a provision of regulations under section 1 that contains an offence, but only if—
(a) each purpose of the regulations containing the offence, as stated under section 1(3), is compliance with a UN obligation or other international obligation, or
(b) paragraph (a) does not apply but the report under section 2 in respect of the regulations containing the offence indicates that, in the opinion of the appropriate Minister making those regulations, the carrying out of a purpose stated in those regulations under section 1(3) would further the prevention of terrorism in the United Kingdom or elsewhere.”

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure the House willed that I move this formally but for good order I should speak to it, although I am sure I am not expressing the Deputy Speaker’s sentiments in any way.

This group contains the remainder of the amendments to the Bill made in the other place. Amendment 26 seeks to clarify the interaction of the powers in the sanctions Bill and the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. It has been prompted by amendments to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill tabled by the Government during its passage. Amendment 26 does not change the intent of the sanctions Bill, nor does it change the scope of the powers contained in the Bill. It makes clear that any restrictions in the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill on the modification of retained EU law do not prevent sanctions Bill powers being exercised as they were intended. The Government believe that the amendment is necessary to provide certainty and avoid any confusion about the interaction of the two Bills in this area.

Amendment 29 is a routine procedural amendment that removes the privilege amendment inserted in this House, which ensures that there are no amendments that would raise taxes or impose charges.

Amendment 24 makes changes to the ability to update the definition of terrorist financing, fulfilling a commitment that the Government made on Report in your Lordships’ House. It retains the ability to remove obsolete references from the definition, but restricts the ability to add new terrorist financing measures by way of sanctions regulations. Those new measures can now be added to the definition of terrorist financing only if the new measures are made either for the purpose of compliance with international obligations, or for the purpose of furthering the prevention of terrorism in the UK or elsewhere.

Noble Lords will be aware that Schedule 2 to this Bill, as already approved by your Lordships’ House, provides an express power permitting the Government to make anti-money laundering regulations that correspond or are similar to the money laundering regulations 2017, or to amend or revoke those regulations. These powers will enable the Government to update the UK’s anti-money laundering regime to reflect evolving international standards and address emerging risks.

Amendment 33 is also consequential on amendments to the EU withdrawal Bill, and confirms that these powers can be used once we leave the EU, in connection with the EU funds transfer regulation—which regulates payment service providers—and other EU-level legislation made under the fourth money laundering directive. This applies in particular to the existing EU list of high-risk third countries, in connection with which enhanced due diligence is required. This amendment provides legal certainty regarding the Government’s ability to update this legislation, which will be part of UK law, using the powers conferred through the Bill. This will ensure consistent treatment of the money laundering regulations 2017 and the closely interlinked legislation which also came into force last year. With those explanations, I beg to move.

[Baroness Northover]

I could say that I am going to test the opinion of the House, but I do not think that that would work. I just take the opportunity of this group to thank the Minister and the Bill team for their careful and constructive engagement on the Bill. Obviously, we would prefer that we were not having to take this legislation through, but if we leave the EU it will indeed be needed.

I also thank those on these Benches who have assisted on the Bill: my noble friends Lady Sheehan and Lord McNally and, especially on the anti-money laundering part, Lady Kramer and Lady Bowles, who single-handedly analysed and proposed restructuring of that part of the Bill and engaged with the Bill team and the Treasury, drawing on her experience as a former chair of the economics committee of the EU.

I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and his team, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, for their deep and constructive engagement.

As the Minister quickly discovered, although the subject matter of sanctions and anti-money laundering is not exactly controversial, the means of tackling it and the carryover into wider Brexit legislation in terms of powers taken meant that this was a forerunner to the EU withdrawal Bill. Above all, I thank the Minister and his team for their patience and engagement. Judging by the previous group, it sounds as though he still has much to do.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and again put on record my thanks to her—and to the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, in particular, on the issue of money laundering. In the same way, I extend my thanks to the Labour Front Bench, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others in your Lordships’ House.

As I said when the Bill passed from your Lordships’ House, we have seen co-operation and your Lordships at their best. I said right at the beginning that we were in listening mode, and I think that has been reflected during the course of the Bill in both your Lordships’ House and the other place. I hope that the noble Baroness is also minded to note that we learn from the wise words of others such as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and that in introducing this group, I resisted using the word “technical”. I commend the amendments.

Motion on Amendment 24 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 25 to 34.

25: After Clause 49, insert the following new Clause—
“Duties to lay certain reports before Parliament: further provision
(1) In this section “a reporting provision” means section 2(4), (Report in respect of offences in regulations)(2) or 40(2) or paragraph 20A(2) of Schedule 2 (duties to lay before Parliament certain reports relating to regulations).
(2) Where more than one reporting provision applies in relation to particular regulations under section 1, the reports to which those provisions relate may be contained in a single document.
(3) If a reporting provision is not complied with, the appropriate Minister who should have complied with that provision must publish a written statement explaining why that Minister failed to comply with it.
(4) Subsection (5) applies where a reporting provision applies and—
(a) a statutory instrument containing the regulations concerned, or
(b) a draft of such an instrument, is laid before the House of Commons and House of Lords on different days.
(5) Where this subsection applies, the reporting provision in question is to be read as requiring the laying of a copy of the report to which that provision relates—
(a) before the House of Commons at the time the instrument or draft mentioned in subsection (4) is laid before the House of Commons, and
(b) before the House of Lords at the time that instrument or draft is laid before the House of Lords.”

United Nations Human Rights Council: Resolution on Gaza

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question asked in another place on the decision of the United Kingdom Government to abstain from voting on the resolution of the Human Rights Council held on 18 May calling for an independent investigation into the recent violence in Gaza. The Statement is as follows:

“We abstained on calls for a commission of inquiry into recent violence in Gaza during the UN Human Rights Council session on Friday. Unfortunately, the substance of the resolution was impartial and unbalanced. We could not support an investigation that refused to explicitly examine the action of non-state actors such as Hamas. An investigation of this kind would not provide us with a comprehensive assessment of accountability. It would risk hardening positions on both sides and move us further away from finding a just and lasting resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

However, the United Kingdom continues to fully support the need for an independent and transparent investigation into recent events. We call directly on Israel to carry out a transparent inquiry into the IDF’s conduct at the border fence and to demonstrate how this will achieve a sufficient level of independence. We believe that this investigation should include international members. We urge that the findings of such an investigation be made public, and if wrongdoing is found, that those responsible are held to account. The Foreign Secretary stressed the importance of Israel conducting an independent investigation when he spoke to Prime Minister Netanyahu on 16 May”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, last Tuesday the Minister agreed with many on the need for an international, independent investigation. In fact, he assured the House that our team at the UN would be working hard on this, and that he would report back on progress. I hope that the Minister can explain why, if the Government were dissatisfied with what appeared at the Human Rights Council, the UK did not submit its own resolution to address this issue? Why not set it out in a way that last week we were all happy to support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is quite right to say that the Government’s position has been, and remains, to support an independent and transparent investigation into recent events. In this case, we joined European allies—notably Germany, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia—in abstaining on calls for a commission of inquiry. I made the reasons for our abstention clear in my opening remarks. To that end, we were concerned that the resolution as presented could not be perceived as balanced because it did not look to ensure that non-state actors were fully considered. We remain true to the fact, however, that we will continue to work through all channels, calling for an international investigation into the events in Gaza last week. There is, as the noble Lord will know, a UN resolution at the Security Council on the situation regarding Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We are aware that Kuwait has also tabled a draft resolution. We are currently considering the text carefully and will make a decision on the way forward on that in due course.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, how does the noble Lord feel personally about this decision? He and his colleagues have repeatedly called for the facts to be established, so how does that square with abstaining on this matter? The Statement rightly asks for an independent and transparent investigation. Why, then, does it go on to ask one side—Israel—to carry this out?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we made clear at the Human Rights Council the importance of any independent investigation. We sit on the Human Rights Council and we always stress the importance of co-operating, and we sought to do so. We did not vote against the resolution but abstained because we had reservations about the wording as it stood. We were not alone in that: I believe there was a total of 14 abstentions.

The noble Baroness asked about the Government’s position, which has been consistent. We want to see a resolution to the situation between Israel and the Palestinians, and we want to see an inquiry into the events that occurred last week in Gaza. Regrettably, children’s lives were lost. For that reason, we wanted to ensure that all material facts could be fully reviewed by any investigation that had been set up. We felt that the UN Human Rights Council resolution fell short of the requirement to ensure that any factors from the side of Hamas inciting others to act in this way were going to be fully considered. That was regrettable, and that is why the UK Government abstained from voting for the resolution.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

Does the Minister recall that, only just over a year ago, the Government announced that they were putting the United Nations Human Rights Council on notice for its disproportionate focus on Israel? It is a council that contains countries not noted for their support of human rights, such as Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Qatar and Burundi. Would he entrust the council with an independent investigation into, for example, the behaviour of British soldiers in Iraq? I am pretty sure that I know what his answer will be.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Baroness points to Item 7 of the Human Rights Council, concerning various resolutions relating to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The Government have made their position clear to members of the Human Rights Council and to the Palestinians and the Israelis—that we want to see any bias in the Human Rights Council agenda addressed directly. That is what we have sought to do in the last few years, and the votes that we have taken have reflected that. Let me say again that, while we have reservations, we continue to be an active member of the Human Rights Council and we are supportive of its actions. Most recently, there were special sessions concerning a call for action on the plight of the Rohingya Muslims in Burma, and the Government have been supportive of those efforts. In any investigation that is held, impartiality and independence are important, as is balance, which is why the Government abstained.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

To follow the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, it is important, as my noble friend the Minister has said, to have impartiality and balance. Tragic events took place in Gaza, where, in my opinion, there was a hugely disproportionate use of force—lethal force—by the Israelis. However, this was whipped up by Hamas. We know that and, indeed, I understand that Hamas has claimed that over 50 of the dead people were allegedly members of Hamas. That is not a capital offence, in my opinion, and there was disproportionate use of force, but any investigation must be impartial, and I do not think that that was on offer at the UN Human Rights Council.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, my noble friend raises the issue of the number of lives lost. I believe that over the two days, the count was 60. As my noble friend pointed out, Hamas itself claims that 50 of those killed were members of Hamas. There is another issue, to which my noble friend again alluded: the use of force and live fire. I assure your Lordships’ House that the Government continue to call for restraint. Indeed, when I was in Israel most recently, I directly asked the Ministers concerned to ensure that, in any conduct—be it in Gaza or elsewhere—the Government of Israel show such restraint. There were others whose lives were lost. I believe that six children lost their lives during the events of last week, and we all mourn the loss of life of such innocent young children.

The central point of the inquiry, as my noble friend said, is impartiality, balance and independence. The Government’s view was that the text that was tabled was not impartial and would not fulfil that objective.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, given the shocking loss of life as a result of the use of live ammunition against unarmed protestors in Gaza, and given what the Minister has just said about the need for an impartial, international, independent inquiry into what happened, can he reassure the House that the Government will not abstain when the resolution put forward by Kuwait comes before the Security Council? It would be enormously helpful, and very reassuring, to many people in this country who are deeply shocked by the violence that took place if he could do that this evening.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I alluded to in an earlier response, we are fully aware of the Kuwaiti draft resolution and are currently considering its text carefully.

[Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)]

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I am a little mystified as to why the Government did not manage to secure a better draft in the Human Rights Council, so that we did not end up looking very weak on the issue. The Minister will know that I have secured a balloted debate for a week on Thursday when we come back. I hope that by that time he will have been able to satisfy the noble Baroness and that the resolution in the Security Council will be supported by the British Government.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. The Government, and our ambassador in Geneva, were seeking the kind of text which we could agree with others. However, that was not possible; we are not the sole members of the Human Rights Council. After looking at the text in front of us, the decision was taken that it did not fulfil the full criteria, particularly on the issue of other, non-state actors. That is why we abstained. I assure the noble Lord, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that our ambassador on the ground, through instruction from London, sought to get the kind of language that would have been acceptable to the United Kingdom.

Syria

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the prospects for a negotiated end to the civil war in Syria that does not involve President Assad.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the lack of progress made towards a negotiated settlement in Syria is deeply disappointing. While the opposition has confirmed its readiness for negotiations without preconditions, the Syrian regime has pursued its brutal military campaign and refused to engage seriously in talks. Only a political settlement can bring stability and peace to Syria. The United Kingdom will be pragmatic about the nature of that settlement and we will continue to support the UN process to achieve it.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Our Syria strategy—if we actually have one—is prolonging the civil war, when ending the civil war is the best thing for the poor, benighted people of that country. Our focus seems to have been, from day one, regime change: presumably, not to hand over to the hotchpotch of opposition forces, many of which are worse than Daesh. Our lack of a clear vision has resulted in Russia being the arbiter, massive Iranian participation, Hezbollah, the raising of Kurdish expectations and consequent problems with the Turks. Surely, our aim must now be to put a stop to the war as quickly as possible, accepting that the loathsome Assad is inevitably part of the equation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that our aim must be to end this civil war as soon as possible. However, I assure all noble Lords that the Government have been and continue to be committed to the UN Geneva process, because it brings together all the Syrian parties required to ensure the stable settlement that we all desire. If we look at what Staffan de Mistura is actually presenting, a whole constitutional commission is proposed, which, yes, includes members of the Assad regime being present. The only reason why that meeting has not been held in Geneva since January is that the Assad regime refuses to engage. We implore Russia, and indeed Iran, to put on the utmost pressure to ensure that the regime takes part in those talks so we can achieve the lasting settlement that I know the noble Lord and all of us desire.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, why does Her Majesty’s Government’s policy—including funding armed groups and local councils affiliated to jihadists and maintaining a special forces presence in Syria, in breach of international law—demonstrate a commitment to removing President Assad, which can only help ISIS to recover territory? Surely, the priority must be to eliminate ISIS and related terrorist forces from Syria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Baroness that this is about eliminating ISIS, which is why the anti-Daesh coalition of 70-plus nations has managed to achieve that in Iraq. I have seen it at first hand myself. However, the perverse ideology of the hijacking of the noble faith remains. Therefore, we must prevent ISIS coming to the fore, not just in Iraq again—we must also eradicate it from Syria. However, I refute totally the allegation that the Government are supporting the regime. We are supporting organisations such as the White Helmets, which provide essential assistance, including sanitation and emergency health provision, to address the civilian population’s needs as a priority. That should be commended, not condemned.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, what discussions are the Government having with Russia and with President Erdoğan—who is here today—in engaging internationally with the Syrian peace process? What efforts are being made to de-escalate the conflict between Iran and Israel, which is so dangerous right now, in Syria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is quite right: Turkey is also a key player in Syria, as we have seen through its engagement in Syria. Wide-ranging talks between the President of Turkey and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will be under way shortly and Syria will be discussed. The noble Baroness raises an important point about engaging with Russia. As I have said previously from the Dispatch Box, we continue to do so at the United Nations, because they remain an important player. On the engagement of Iran and Israel in Syria, we implore all sides to show restraint. As the noble Baroness knows, we remain committed to the nuclear deal because we believe that to be the best way of ensuring Iran’s continued engagement and of finding a resolution further afield.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord West, when he says that President Assad is clearly going to be party to the negotiated settlement. I hope that we can avoid saying that individuals should be “held to account”. Although that may be morally and ethically right, it does encourage them to hang on.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We, and the international community, certainly do not want to encourage anyone we feel is not right for the process. Most importantly, anyone whom the Syrian civilians themselves feel cannot lead their country—it is, ultimately, their decision—should not hang on and we should not encourage him. As I have already said, we are not against the engagement of the Syrian regime, led by Bashar Assad, in the UN process, which all parties are signed up to. However, the fact is that they are not engaging in that process. We implore them, and anyone who has influence over the regime, to do so.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one key thing is to keep stressing peace talks with no preconditions. That is the clear message that we need to hear from the Government. As the Secretary-General of the United Nations said, evidence shows that gaining territory and seeking to win this war militarily do not work. Will the Minister convey that message to all the parties concerned? Talking is the only way that we are going to achieve a lasting peace.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. That is why the UN’s efforts have been geared to talks without preconditions, and the opposition voices in Syria have subscribed to that. Equally, the door is open to the Assad regime to participate in those talks. A UN-agreed settlement must be the right way forward, not individual players working out whose interests are best served by the regime continuing. I again implore Russia, and indeed Iran, to do their utmost to ensure that the regime participates in those important talks.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, in 2002 I attended a reception at No. 10 for Bashar Assad and his wife. They had earlier met Her Majesty the Queen. He took in more than 1 million Sunni refugees from the war in Iraq and was considered an important strategic ally in the Middle East. When he looked like being toppled in the civil war, he suddenly became a monster and his Government a regime. Does the Minister agree that this sort of name calling, of someone who is in effective charge of the country, does nothing to help bring peace to the innocent people of Syria, who are suffering nightmare bombardment from the United States, the UK, Iran, Turkey, Russia, France, Israel and Assad himself?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord partly answered his own question with the final point he made: “and Assad himself”. That is when he became the person we, the international community and the Syrian people themselves felt could no longer lead a Government. When you start attacking your own people and using chemical weapons against your own population—I can think of many words the press and others may use, but the fact is that we do not believe he is part of the future. Ultimately, it is for the Syrian civilian residents to decide themselves.

European Organization for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere (Immunities and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2018

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 29 March be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 9 May.

Motion agreed.

Gaza

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question asked in the other place on the violence at the Gaza border and its impact on the Middle East peace process. The Statement is as follows:

“As I said in the statement I put out from the FCO yesterday, the violence in Gaza and the West Bank has been shocking. The loss of life and the large number of injured Palestinians, including children, are tragic, and it is extremely worrying that the number of those killed continues to rise. Such violence is destructive to peace efforts.

We have been clear that the United Kingdom supports the Palestinians’ right to peaceful protest. It is deplorable, but real, that extremist elements have been exploiting these protests for their own violent purposes. We will not waver in our support for Israel’s right to defend its borders, but the large volume of live fire is extremely concerning. We continue to implore Israel to show greater restraint.

The UK remains committed to a two-state solution, with Jerusalem as a shared capital. All sides now need to show real leadership and courage, promote calm, refrain from inflaming tensions further, and show with renewed urgency that the path to a two-state solution is through negotiation and peace.

We agree with the UN Secretary-General’s envoy that the situation in Gaza is desperate and deteriorating, and that the international community must step up efforts. We call on the UN special representative of the Secretary-General to bring forward proposals to address the situation in Gaza. These should include easing the restrictions on access and movement, and international support for urgent infrastructure and economic development projects. We also reiterate our support for the Egyptian-led reconciliation process and the return of the PA to full administration of the Gaza Strip.

We must look forward and work urgently towards a resolution of the long-standing issues between Israel and the Palestinian people. Now more than ever, we need a political process that delivers a two-state solution. Every death and every wounding casts a shadow for the future. The human tragedies should be used not as more building blocks for immovable positions, which will lead inevitably to more confrontation, but as a spur for urgent change. Yesterday’s tragedies demonstrate why peace is urgently needed”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, all our thoughts are with those Palestinians in Gaza whose loved ones have been either killed or injured as a result of IDF action. During subsequent questions, Alistair Burt appeared to support the Secretary-General’s call for an independent and transparent investigation of these actions. He said that a team at the United Nations was working to find the right formulation, bearing in mind that a Kuwaiti attempt failed because it set out to apportion blame. What timescale are the Government working to in respect of a United Nations response, because it is clear that these matters need urgent and independent investigation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend Alistair Burt said in another place, the United Kingdom Government support an independent and transparent process to establish exactly what happened, including why such a large volume of live fire was used. Given the importance of accountability, we want this to be both independent and transparent. On timelines, this is a UN process which needs to be agreed by all relevant parties. As that is updated, I shall inform the House and the noble Lord.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

I associate these Benches with the thoughts expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about those killed and injured. Under international law, firearms can be used only to protect against imminent threat of death or serious injury. Does the Minister agree that firing on unarmed civilians in Gaza, often at a great distance, must be fully and impartially investigated and that if the law has been broken those responsible must be held to account? His right honourable friend Alistair Burt, the Minister for the Middle East, referred earlier today to the “hopeless” and “desperate” conditions in Gaza. Does the noble Lord agree that the United Kingdom should give some glimmer of hope to Palestinians held in such conditions by recognising the state of Palestine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, of course, I associate myself with the sentiments of the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. Our thoughts and prayers are with all the victims of the tragic deaths that have taken place. That said, on the issue of live fire, as I said in my opening remarks, we continue to implore the Israeli Government, while we respect their right to defend their borders, that the use of live fire should be considered only as a last resort. Indeed, this has been consistently mentioned at bilateral meetings directly with the Israeli Government.

The noble Baroness referred to the sentiments expressed by my right honourable friend in the other place. I visited both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories a few weeks ago and saw why it is very important that we make progress. As for providing hope, of course we continue to support UNRWA’s efforts to ensure that medical aid and assistance reaches Palestinian communities in Gaza and the West Bank. That is why we are supportive of Egyptian efforts to bring greater peace and reconciliation in Gaza and it is why we welcome the opening of the Egyptian border for a few days to relieve some of those efforts.

[Baroness Morris of Bolton (Con)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interests as declared in the register, especially as president of Medical Aid for Palestinians. The World Health Organization has said that the injuries sustained in these appalling events in Gaza are comparable to wartime situations. There are desperate shortages of drugs and equipment at the moment in Gaza. What are the Government doing to help alleviate this desperate situation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure my noble friend, as I said in my previous answer, that the UK is a long-time supporter of UNRWA’s efforts in this. Indeed, we are committed to continue our funding, which does provide those very basic services that my noble friend has just referred to. It provides basic healthcare to 1.3 million people in Gaza, and I assure my noble friend we are also supporting humanitarian access, which enables basic reconstruction efforts in Gaza as well.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, I am grateful to Her Majesty’s Government for the careful yet very specific response they have given to the appalling loss of life at the border between Gaza and the state of Israel yesterday. The thoughts and prayers of this Bench are with all those affected. It is good to know that the Minister supports an independent review of what happened. At the same time, will the Minister agree that, while the United Kingdom recognises the integrity of the border—and, indeed, of all Israel’s pre-1967 borders—and the security of Israel’s prosperous and pluriform society, the defence of its interests must offer tangible hope to those with whom it hopes to engage in dialogue? The phrase, “a glimmer of hope” was mentioned a moment ago. I was in Gaza about four years ago. The situation then was desperate and deteriorating. It is infinitely worse now. What real, substantial hope can be given to those who live in what is effectively a vast open prison?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, that is why the United Kingdom Government, let me assure the right reverend Prelate, are committed to ensuring humanitarian access, as I have said already, and equally firmly convinced that the only way to bring that ultimate hope both to Israel and to the Palestinians is through a two-state solution. We continue to implore both sides that, now more than ever, it is required that they come to the table and we see that lasting peace that we all desire.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister remember that the living hell that is Gaza and the creation of Hamas itself are due to successive Israeli Governments, and that the offer from Hamas consistently over recent years of a 10-year truce in return for the lifting of the siege on Gaza has been totally ignored? When will he persuade our partners in the international community and the Government of Israel to consider this offer?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, ultimately it is for both parties to come to the table. The noble Baroness mentioned Hamas. A positive step forward would be for Hamas to recognise the right of Israel to exist. It has repeatedly failed to do so. That would be the most progressive step and a step forward in that process.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former chairman of Medical Aid for Palestinians. Two days ago, we could not have imagined that 58 people would be shot, 2,000 civilians would be injured and explosive bullets—it is alleged—would be used. It is absolutely appalling. Frankly, for the Government simply to say that they are concerned is pathetic. In the face of that, they should condemn it and call for an immediate investigation, particularly into the nature of the ammunition used.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I said earlier, we continue to implore the Israeli Government to restrain themselves from the use of live fire. I assure the noble Lord that, when I and my right honourable friend Alistair Burt meet the appropriate Israeli Ministers, we continue to call for that very approach of ensuring that alternative methods to the use of live fire are considered. On the noble Lord’s second point, of course we have already associated ourselves with calls for an independent investigation.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

The Liberal Democrats asked a very simple question: if international law was broken, should legal action be taken? Can we have an answer to the Liberal Democrats’ question?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That will be a matter for the independent investigation. Of course, the investigation will look at the principles of international humanitarian law and then report back appropriately. That is why we are supportive of this transparent and independent process.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, at the core of the Jewish religion, as with other religions, is the importance of the sanctity of life—“Kiddush HaShem” in Hebrew. I therefore mourn any loss of life. It is easy to blame one side or the other without having facts. I will give your Lordships just one fact. Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, stated just last month:

“We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies”.


Also last month, Israel destroyed the largest and deepest Hamas tunnel into the territory. Will the Minister join me in condemning all violence, as well as Hamas’s continued development of its underground terror structure, its use of Palestinian civilians as human shields and deliberately sending its own people towards the border fence into danger?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am sure I join all noble Lords in condemning violence and the loss of innocent life anywhere in the world. We must now see progressive action to ensure that the lives that were lost recently were not lost in vain.