European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (Rule of Law)

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dominic Raab]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that. Of course, all the normal checks and balances that would apply if the Government were bringing forward a piece of legislation cannot apply—almost by definition—as a result of the way this was done. It has been done swiftly, without the normal scrutiny, and as a result it is a flawed piece of legislation and rightly dubbed the surrender Bill, because of its impact on our negotiations in Brussels.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

rose—

[Dominic Raab]

I am going to make a bit of progress, because we are coming to the close.

In her contribution, the leader of the Liberal Democrats made the case for a second referendum, but she has also said that if people voted to leave for a second time, she would just ignore the result again. I want a deal, and this Prime Minister and this Government want a deal. I believe it would be much better than no deal. But much, much worse than no deal would be to destroy confidence in the most basic democratic principle we have: that politicians respect what the people vote for. That argument was powerfully made by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson).

The country wants this mess sorted out by 31 October, but the House wants to delay again. In those circumstances, the proper way to proceed is for this House to allow the voters to decide in an election who goes over to negotiate at the European Council on 17 October—the Prime Minister or the Leader of the Opposition. That is constitutionally the correct course of action. Given the position we have arrived at, it is plain common sense. What is the right hon. Gentleman afraid of? Just last Monday, the leader of the Labour party said:

“A general election is the democratic way forward.”

This is on Labour leaflets that have been delivered just this weekend, up and down the country. Just so that we are clear on this, I will read out the direct quote, so that we get it right. The leaflets said:

“We need a General Election now”.

What happened to all that bluff and bluster between the printing of the leaflets and their delivery just two days ago? The public will draw their own conclusions if the right hon. Gentleman’s actions conflict so starkly with his words. They will draw the inescapable conclusion that he does not trust the voters and he does not believe that they would trust him.

In those circumstances, if the House will not take the necessary decision, and if the right hon. Gentleman will not do the right thing, it risks further undermining respect not only for the Labour party but for Parliament. If that is the case, the Prime Minister will go to Brussels on 17 October, but let us be clear that he will not go to negotiate a delay; he will go to negotiate our departure from the EU on 31 October with or without a deal.

I urge the House to vote today not for more deadlock and delay, but for the only course of action that will break this deadlock, restore public confidence in our democracy and allow this country to move forward.

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[Jeremy Corbyn]

It is extraordinary that the House is having to debate whether the Prime Minister will abide by a law that has just been passed by Parliament, and that the same Prime Minister, who managed to be here for the Division earlier, cannot be here to answer questions from Members, and no Law Officers are present either. All the Members who have spoken raised questions—

[Lady Hermon]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Yes, of course.

[Lady Hermon]

I am very grateful to the Leader of the Opposition, who is much more courteous than the Foreign Secretary in taking interventions in this very important debate. The Foreign Secretary described as flawed the legislation that is intended to stop the country leaving without a deal, which received Royal Assent today. May I recommend to him, and indeed to all Members of the House, Radio 4’s interview with Lord Sumption, a very distinguished former member of the Supreme Court? He said that there was not “the slightest obscurity” about the Act. I rest my case. It is not flawed.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention; she makes her point very well. If the Foreign Secretary wishes to reply, I will happily give way.

Demolition of Khan al-Ahmar

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

Again, the short answer is a worrying yes. Israel has many friends around the world. I count myself as a friend of the middle east as well as a friend of individual separate states. In my experience, the determination to reach a just solution had slipped down the agenda of the world in recent years, but it has now gone back up the agenda, partly as a result of President Trump’s decision on Jerusalem and partly as a result of the feeling that, although we have said it many times before, maybe there is just one last chance before we get into a situation that none of us wishes to see. It is possible that the events of today, a little like the catalyst of Gaza recently, might be a further reminder that that chance is slipping away and that the door might be closing all too quickly.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

The Minister, for whom I have enormous regard, has described how British officials were taken by surprise this morning when they went to visit the villages and found bulldozers on site—

[Alistair Burt]

indicated dissent.

[Lady Hermon]

They were not surprised?

[Alistair Burt]

They were not surprised, ma’am. They went there because they knew that things were happening. They were not taken by surprise.

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[Lady Hermon]

I thank the Minister for that clarification. They were not taken by surprise, but they went there because they feared that demolitions were going to take place. I would like to be reassured that, when the reports came back that the bulldozers were indeed on site, the Foreign Office immediately contacted the White House and asked the Americans to use the influence that they seem to have in Israel to save those villages from demolition. Did that happen? Have we contacted the White House? Did the Foreign Secretary make that call? Did the Prime Minister make that call? Did anyone in the British Government make that call to the White House?

[Alistair Burt]

Forgive me—I do not know the answer to that question. I have been dealing with DFID questions in the House this morning and then I moved on to this. I do not know what official contact there has been between us and the United States, but the hon. Lady asks an extremely good question. I cannot imagine that in dealing with this issue we are not in direct contact with our friends in the United States, and I will certainly make sure that we are.

Libyan-sponsored IRA Terrorism

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robertson]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. As I get deeper into my speech, I will refer to other compensation awards, but the Government should certainly follow that guiding principle.

The role of the Libyan Government in bolstering the activities of the Provisional IRA should not be understated. When he appeared before the Select Committee, the former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Jack Straw, stated:

“In the 1980s and early 1990s, Libya was probably the most serious state sponsor of terrorism in the world.”

Those were very strong words. From the early 1970s through to the 1990s, the Gaddafi regime in Libya supplied arms, funding, training and explosives to the Provisional IRA, which is accepted by many to have both extended and worsened the troubles.

Through a series of shipments that took place in the mid-1980s, the regime supplied the Provisional IRA with up to 10 tonnes of Semtex, a highly powerful and virtually undetectable plastic explosive. The Semtex supplied made possible a deadly bombing campaign from the late 1980s, resulting in a horrific loss of life across Northern Ireland and the mainland. These include the attacks in Enniskillen, where a bomb was detonated that killed 11 people during a Remembrance Sunday ceremony, the bombings in Warrington that resulted in the deaths of two children—Tim Parry and Johnathan Ball—and the attack at docklands in this city, where a bomb killed two people and injured about 100 more. This is to name just a few of the atrocities carried out by the Provisional IRA using the Libyan-supplied Semtex. It does not come close to illustrating the extent of the devastation caused. While that loss of life is a tragedy, those attacks also had far-reaching implications for those who were injured and for the families and loved ones of those who sadly lost their lives.

During our inquiry, many victims emphasised not only the physical effects of the attacks, but the emotional, psychological and financial difficulties caused. The testimonies of those victims have been highlighted in previous debates, but it would be valuable to the House to consider them once more, to illustrate the sheer loss, heartache and pain caused by those attacks.

Colin Parry, whose 12-year-old son, Tim, died following the Warrington bombings in 1993, told the Committee:

“Describing the final moments of your child’s life is beyond words…because, as a parent, there is no greater pain or loss than the death of your child.”

Suzanne Dodd’s father was the inspector on duty on the day of the Harrods bombing. She told the Committee that, on the day of the attack, she and her siblings had been waiting for their father to come home to put up the Christmas tree when their mother told them that there had been a bomb at Harrods and that their father would be late. It emerged that her father had been seriously injured. Her mother returned from hospital on Christmas eve, telling Suzanne and her siblings that her father had died.

The urgency of this issue is possibly best illustrated by Mrs Gemma Berezzag, whose husband was left blind, paralysed and brain damaged by the docklands bombing. For 20 years she cared for her husband’s complex needs on a daily basis. She sadly passed away in 2016, before any resolution could be found. I ask the Government: how many more individuals affected by those atrocities will not see justice in their lifetime? Those cases provide only a snapshot of the suffering caused by Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism, and time is running out for many of the victims.

Losing any loved one through natural causes is bad enough. Losing someone through an accident is perhaps even more shocking, but how much worse must it be when that life has been deliberately taken through terrorism? Add to that grief the involvement of a foreign, rogue state, and the victims’ relatives and friends must suffer more than any of us could ever imagine.

The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee heard how victims have been repeatedly let down by successive Labour, Conservative and coalition Governments, owing to their failure adequately to pursue compensation on their behalf. At times, it seemed that during periods of improved relations the concerns of victims were secondary to other considerations. The Committee concluded that there had been a series of missed opportunities to raise the issue of compensation, particularly during a period of deepening relations between the UK and Libya in the 2000s.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on a sensitive and important issue. Has he any evidence that the current Government have intensified their efforts to obtain compensation from the Libyan Government for all those victims of IRA-sponsored terrorism not just in Northern Ireland but throughout the United Kingdom?

[Mr Robertson]

The hon. Lady is a valuable and active member of the Committee and she took part in the inquiry to which I refer. I will touch on the issue she raised in a moment because it is a very important point.

In the 2000s, compensation was secured for the families of the Lockerbie bombing victims, and in 2004 we had the first visit to Libya by a British Prime Minister for 60 years. That visit was accompanied by the announcement that Shell had signed an agreement worth up to £550 million for gas exploration rights off the coast of Libya, yet there was still no sign of compensation for these victims. For our inquiry, the extent to which the Government of the day were aware of the campaign to seek compensation is unclear. Nevertheless, I believe the UK Government missed a vital opportunity during this period of improved relations to act on behalf of IRA victims.

The situation is even more disheartening for victims when we look to the achievements of the US, French and German Governments in securing compensation for their citizens. Because of the French Government’s threat to veto the lifting of UN sanctions on Libya, Libya agreed to pay the French Government $170 million in respect of the 170 people killed following the bombing of UTA flight 772 in 1989.

The Committee also examined the exclusion of the UK victims of Gaddafi-sponsored terrorism from the terms of the US-Libya claim settlement agreement in 2008 as another missed opportunity for UK victims. Although the then UK Government claimed they had made representations to the US for the victims’ inclusion, we received no evidence of the level at which they had been made and with what force. It was explained that the US was unable to include UK victims in the agreement for several legal reasons, including that neither international law nor US law allows the US to espouse the claims of foreign nationals. However, this was contested during Committee evidence sessions, when it was suggested that that was not a matter of law but rather a matter of US Government policy. My primary concern, however, is the actions of the UK Government and I do not believe that, on the two occasions I have outlined, enough was done to put forward the claims of victims.

As the Gaddafi regime crumbled in 2011, the UN imposed financial sanctions on several individuals and entities involved in or complicit in the commission of human rights abuses in Libya. In September 2017, it was established that £12 billion of assets from the Gaddafi regime remained frozen within the UK’s jurisdiction. Currently, the UN resolutions, and the EU regulation which enforces them in the UK, provide no option for the UK Government to use frozen Libyan assets for the purposes of compensation. Disappointingly, there is no evidence that the UK Government raised the issue of compensation at the point when the assets were frozen. This is particularly frustrating, as there are precedents for the use of frozen assets to compensate victims. For example, $225 million of former President Marcos’s assets seized in Swiss bank accounts have provided reparations for victims of human rights abuses in the Philippines.

The Select Committee asked the Government to consider the use of frozen assets to compensate victims and to contribute towards community support. At the time, we were very disappointed by the Government’s rejection of recommendations made, and a number of Members, including myself and the new Chairman of the Select Committee, have continued to engage with the Foreign Secretary on this issue. However, to date, the Government have unequivocally ruled out the use of these assets for compensation and the potential use of our veto at the UN Security Council for the purpose of securing compensation. Today, we ask that the Government take a fresh approach to this issue and explore all options available to acquire the international authority to use a proportion of the Libyan assets frozen in this country to compensate victims and to set up support projects in the communities affected.

I do, of course, recognise that there are victims of Gaddafi in Libya, as well as in the UK, and I emphasise that the assets I refer to are the assets of those involved in human rights abuses in Libya and not those of innocent Libyans. The funds seized and frozen in this jurisdiction and across others have a role to play in contributing to the rebuilding of Libyan society and in helping the people who have suffered there to rebuild their lives. However, there is still a responsibility to deal with the legacy of the Gaddafi Government and the pain and suffering caused in the UK. I believe we should pursue these funds to do so.

I am realistic and recognise that since the fall of the Gaddafi regime Libya has faced insecurity and political instability, which has hindered progress on a number of issues, including compensation. I welcome the fact that, when the Foreign Secretary visited Tripoli in May and August last year, he raised this issue with the Prime Minister. To reply to the intervention from the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), I understand that that is the extent of what happened, although the Minister may correct me on that. I hope that this issue will continue to feature in the discussions that the Government have with the Libyan Government. I ask the Government to pursue this Government-to-Government approach where possible, rather than viewing this as a matter for individuals to deal with themselves. They simply cannot do so. The continued perseverance of the victims and their families shows strength and resolve, but they should not have to pursue this very difficult issue alone, and I ask the Government for their support in that.

When conducting our inquiry, we were repeatedly told by Ministers that it was difficult to move this issue on because there was no functioning Government in Libya to deal with, and as soon as one were established, a more determined approach would be taken. However, that has not happened, and the relatives have suffered for too long. That is why, supported by many hon. Members, we are suggesting today that the Government assess the origin of the frozen assets to determine how much of them were effectively lodged by the then Libyan Government, as opposed to being investments made by private individuals. We suggest that the Government then seek international permission to use those assets to compensate the victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism, to compensate their relatives and to support the communities where the attacks took place.

In the Prime Minister’s address to the Conservative party conference last October, she said that one of her main motivations in politics was to try to “root out injustice”, yet this example of a major injustice remains and rages. Now is the time to act.

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[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) for his work on this issue not just as the previous Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, but since then. I also thank him and the Backbench Business Committee for securing the debate, and I pay tribute to all the Members here who have put in a lot of work over a number of years on this issue. This issue is not party political; it is about justice, and the situation has gone on for far, far too long.

I am afraid that when I listened to the evidence as a member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, it was absolutely apparent that something, somewhere—at the back of all this within Government—was stopping Governments of all persuasions from pushing to get compensation and from pushing the United Nations to change the way in which the frozen assets could be dealt with. It is tragic—the hon. Gentleman has outlined a number of cases—and we could go through all the evidence. I urge anyone listening or watching who wants to understand the issue more to read some of the evidence that was given to the Select Committee.

I want to add a bit more about one person—one of the victims—who has already been referred to and who submitted evidence to our Committee: Mrs Gemma Berezzag. She had cared for her husband, Zaoui, who was left severely disabled. What she said to us was particularly poignant, because we know—the family are quite happy for this to be public—that she committed suicide in 2016. Just months before, she had told the Belfast News Letter:

“We never had a nice day in our lives since. My husband was a hard worker, nice to his children and nice to me. Now I change his nappy 10 times a day. Can your friends do this? I need financial help for my husband. I cannot even afford the nappies he needs. The Government forgot about me. I am 57 but I feel like I am 80. This is still killing me, 20 years after the bomb.”

She and other people described going to the Foreign Office—they included people who had experienced the London docklands bombing, to which I know my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) will refer—to seek help. They even found someone who could speak Arabic. Time after time, they were told, “This is a private matter between you and the Libyan Government.” Now, all these years later, we have a new relationship with the Libyan Government, and the Minister has just been there. I hope he will tell us very clearly what he said and what was said to him, because, on the basis of all the evidence, I do not believe that enough has been done.

I do not accept what has been said about the frozen assets. One of the criteria in the EU regulation is “humanitarian”. If the person whose case I have just presented—and some of the other people who are suffering now. and who are getting older and older—cannot be helped on humanitarian grounds, I really do not know what “humanitarian grounds” can mean. I hope that in a year or so, if we are no longer in the EU, we may be able to change that regulation so that those people can be helped.

It seems that the push that should have come has never come. Let me give a prime example. In 2013, the G8 came to Enniskillen in Northern Ireland, the site of one of the biggest and most appalling bombings, which happened on Remembrance Sunday. The victims—and some of the relatives of the people who died in Enniskillen are in the Public Gallery—had not been told that the Libyan Prime Minister was coming. They heard about it because they managed to find something out on the internet. They then asked if they could meet Zeidan—the Prime Minister—because they thought that that would be very helpful: here was someone who was against Gaddafi as well. They were refused that visit, but were told, “Don’t worry; he is meeting the leaders in Northern Ireland.” And who should one of those leaders in Northern Ireland be but Martin McGuinness, who probably knew all about how the Semtex had come from Libya. So all those opportunities were not given to them.

I say to the Minister, “You now have an opportunity.” The Labour Government and Tony Blair did absolutely nothing. He would not come and give evidence to the Committee. He gave evidence about the “on the runs” issue, but not about this issue. We believe that there is a lot more to come out about what went on during that time and that it was not in the interests of Blair and the Government to do anything that would upset Gaddafi. Then came Gordon Brown, who actually set up a new unit in the Foreign Office to help the victims.

[Lady Hermon]

I am very pleased to be working with the hon. Lady on the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. Does she agree that when the British Government, quite rightly, condemn terrorism unreservedly —and we have experienced far too much terrorism in the United Kingdom —they have a moral obligation to seek compensation for all the victims from the Libyan Government, to whom they now refer as a friend?

[Kate Hoey]

I absolutely agree. This is indeed a moral issue. I know that people will not like my saying this, but it sometimes seems to me almost as though there are two types of terrorism. There is terrorism, and then there is IRA terrorism. We now have to be so careful not to upset those who were once the leaders of what was the IRA. I really do think that the Government must show that terrorism is terrorism, wherever it happens.

We should not let the IRA off the hook on this. Yes, it was Libyan Semtex that was given to the IRA, but it was not Gaddafi who actually planted the bombs in Enniskillen and all those other places. I think it is very important to remember that.

I know that a number of other Members want to speak. Let me end by saying that this has gone on for far too long. There is £9.5 billion sitting in our banks, and if we and the United Kingdom Government cannot find a way to ensure that some of that money goes to those people who are, as we speak, ill and literally beginning to die off, I think that that is a shame on all of us here, and a shame on the Government. I hope that the Minister will respond in a positive way, because we have to move quickly on this issue.

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[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart); he injects into these debates a level of knowledge from his years of service in uniform that, in all honestly, I do not believe anyone else could. I thank the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) for securing the debate.

There is a sense of déjà vu about this debate, but that is not what it should be. It is my desire that this debate will be something completely different and that it will bring about action. That has been the thrust of what all Members have said in their speeches and interventions. I want this debate to result in a change of direction and decision, not simply in platitudes and sympathetic consideration.

It is my belief that the duty that we have to our citizens supersedes the duty that we have to others. It is important that we all stand together today against the tactics of terror that cost lives and resulted in so many innocent people having to endure life-changing injuries. The Democratic Unionist party stands shoulder to shoulder with the innocent victims of terrorism who are making their case for proper recognition and support.

I am sure that other Members have been sent a letter by a very worthy and notable police officer; I presume from some of the contributions that that is the case. He was severely injured in the 1983 Harrods bombing that was carried out by the IRA. To that brave man who has carried on serving Queen and country, through physical difficulty and emotional and mental torment, I say: we salute you. I thank him for his service. I have heard what he said in the letter that I received and that I suspect others received, and I agree with and appreciate every single word that he has shared. He epitomises the suffering of victims.

One of the most startling parts of the police officer’s letter was his recollection of seeing an American gentleman —I think the hon. Member for Tewkesbury referred to this earlier—being injured and then attended to after the explosion. This police officer has looked on as the American Government ensured that there has been a form of justice for that man. They saw the part played by Gaddafi and his minions and decided that there was a price to pay, and they paid that price to their citizens.

This debate is epitomised by the fact that two people who were seriously injured in the same IRA Semtex bomb explosion in the capital city of this United Kingdom are treated in such different ways. Why would any rational person deem it acceptable that an American victim is compensated by the Libyans, but the British victims of this atrocity are not? It is little wonder that this brave police officer and so many other innocent victims feel abandoned, worth less than the American tourist who happened to be visiting their city.

This British police officer ran towards the danger—towards the bomb—yet that duty and sacrifice have not been properly acknowledged by a Government who I say with respect have failed adequately to make the case to the Libyan Administration. Along with others in this House, I pledge that I will seek justice for that police officer, his family, friends and colleagues, and for the innocent victims throughout this nation and this entire United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Lady Hermon]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene.

Reflecting on the close working relationship between the Conservative Government and his party, the Democratic Unionist party, I have assumed that this very sensitive and very important issue for victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism has been raised in discussions by him and his colleagues with either the Foreign Secretary or indeed the Prime Minister. It would be very helpful if he assured us that that in fact is the case.

[Jim Shannon]

I am quite happy to assure the House that the matter has been raised at the highest level with the Prime Minister. Everyone can be assured that we are not behind the door when it comes to pushing this matter and when it comes to talking to the Minister. For the victims, families, friends and colleagues across the whole United Kingdom, this is something that has been said before, but it needs to be reiterated, “You are the victims and you deserve the best that we can give.” Government at the very highest level and all of us must do better for the innocent victims of terrorism.

I asked the Home Secretary at the end of March whether she would raise the matter of the unexplained wealth orders in respect of the members of the Gaddafi family and their Libyan associates who reside in the UK, or who claim ownership of the frozen assets in the UK. The response was not particularly helpful, so I think it is time that the Minister talked to the National Crime Agency, the Crown Prosecution Service and the Serious Fraud Office about finding some methodology on how to retrieve the £9.8 billion.

I say to the Minister, on behalf of every person affected by the evil deeds of evil men, aided and facilitated by Gaddafi and Libya, to make the change today and to step up for his constituents, for my constituents, for the people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and simply for the concept of justice and for no other reason than what is right.

Albert Einstein made many statements, and I will quote one today. He said:

“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”

I say to the Minister that I hope that will not be the case for this Government. It is the wish of our people that we do something about this matter. Government after Government have sat and felt sympathy for victims. Northern Ireland MP after Northern Ireland MP has been infuriated by the lack of movement, as have our colleagues in Great Britain. This issue will be raised again and again and again until every victim of Libyan-sponsored terrorism knows without doubt that this institution, this Parliament and this Government have done all they can to ensure that the men who were blown up, side by side, have parity of treatment from their separate Governments.

I am very conscious of time so let me just say that these people deserve our sympathy, our tears, our time and our promise to act. Their need dictates that we do no less; every fibre of our being should dictate that we do no less; and our position certainly dictates that we as a Parliament do no less. Wrong was done. We cannot give back lives, mental health or physical wellbeing, but we must do what we can and what we have not done thus far. It is our duty to fight against evil and fight for the victims in this way. Minister, I look to you.

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[Alistair Burt]

I am not in a position in any way to dispute what the hon. Gentleman says. There may well be some issues, if we look at compensation as a whole, about distinguishing between different groups, but that is a slightly different issue. However, we are clear what we are talking about here: there is enough evidence, and there will be victims of Gaddafi-sponsored terrorism Semtex who we can all be very clear about.

[Lady Hermon]

rose—

[James Cartlidge]

rose—

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[Lady Hermon]

I am enormously grateful to the Minister, for whom I have the highest regard—he is a very good Foreign Office Minister. After his visit to Libya, he described the UK as

“a strong partner and friend of Libya.”

If Libya is a friend of the UK, what possible justification can there be for delaying compensation for one day more?

[Alistair Burt]

I do not think that the presently constituted Libyan Government is in any position to make a decision in relation to such compensation or to pay it. In answer to the hon. Lady’s question, that is one of the practical issues that we are dealing with at the moment.

Refugees and Human Rights

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Emily Thornberry]

My hon. Friend is a mind reader: that is exactly what I was about to suggest.

The concern is that this money could trigger a domino effect. Given that most of UNRWA’s costs are local staff salaries, cuts would mean severance payments and severance payments would mean further cuts, and the vicious cycle goes on. UNRWA could face a Catch-22 situation in which it cannot afford to maintain its services, but risks bankruptcy if it cuts them, which would be a devastating scenario for Palestinian families. It is a humanitarian crisis in the making—we know that—entirely caused by the egomania of the American President.

Although we would all welcome today a commitment of extra money from the UK—I hope that that is what we will hear—we know that short-term fixes by individual countries will not ultimately solve the problem. What we need, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden) has said, is a long-term and multilateral solution to this shortfall. May I urge the Government today to lead that international effort and consider initiating a special funding conference, such as that held for humanitarian emergencies—the difference in this case being that we must not wait for that emergency to strike before acting? If it is not to be us, who will do it?

The fourth challenge concerns those countries trying to recover from major conflict whose stability and peace must be nurtured, lest they again collapse. We think of Afghanistan, Iraq and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. More recently, we think of Libya, about which the shadow International Development Secretary will again speak later.

I want to focus today on Lebanon, which, for decades, has lurched from devastating conflict to chronic instability. Its peace must be preserved as it becomes the latest battleground for regional control between Iran and Saudi Arabia. In November, Lebanese Prime Minister Hariri was invited to take a camping trip in Saudi Arabia with Crown Prince Salman. When he arrived, he was roughed up by Saudi guards and forced to read a televised statement announcing his resignation. He had to beg for a suit so that he did not resign in a T-shirt and jeans. If Riyadh’s plan was to provoke instability and civil conflict inside Lebanon, that certainly backfired, because instead it triggered a wave of support for Hariri that allowed him to return and withdraw his resignation.

But if that was a bullet dodged, we must still ask, “Why was it fired?”, because Lebanon cannot afford another war that would risk dragging in Israel, along with Iran, and create a fresh humanitarian crisis in a country that is already cracking under the weight of 1.5 million refugees from the war in Syria and hundreds of thousands more from Palestine. Does the Minister know what on earth Crown Prince Salman was playing at in November? Will he urge the Saudis not to do anything more, whether political interference or financial penalties, that weakens or destabilises Lebanon further? Will he also urge Israel to recognise that any short-term urge it has to damage Hezbollah must be outweighed by the long-term damage that another regional war would do?

The fifth and final challenge concerns countries affected by climate change. Of course that means all of us, but the sad truth is that some of the poorest countries that have contributed the least to global carbon emissions will be those hardest hit by the changes that we have created. Their physical infrastructure is the least well prepared to cope with flooding, droughts and other extreme weather events, because their economies are the least well adapted to cope with long-term changes such as erosion or pollution of farmland. One example is the Mekong delta in Vietnam, which is the traditional home of the country’s agriculture and is now plagued by rising sea levels and incursion of saltwater. Livelihoods that have lasted centuries are being wiped out. Over the past 10 years, a net 1 million people have left the delta—twice the national average of migration from rural areas.

That is climate change in action, and a pattern that is being repeated across the world. If we cannot reverse these trends, regions that are currently just in trouble will in due course become uninhabitable. The carbon targets we meet in this country will matter nothing in the grand scheme of things unless we show global leadership in helping the rest of the world, including the United States of America, to face up to the challenge of climate change. Will the Minister tell us, first, where in the Government’s list of overseas funding priorities is helping poorer countries adapt to climate change? Secondly, when Rex Tillerson visited London on Monday, was any effort make to persuade the United States to recommit to the Paris agreement, or was that considered simply a waste of time? Sadly, I think that we know the answer to the second question, because we are stuck with a President who does not give a fig about the problems and the future that the world is facing.

I spoke at the outset about the Thurgood Marshall anniversary, which allows us to celebrate the life of a great human rights hero.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

May I ask the right hon. Lady to put on the record a tribute to the BBC journalists and other reporters around the world who highlight to us, with great sensitivity and great honesty, the appalling conflicts, the famines, the plight of refugees, and the cruelty experienced by Christians and other minorities? Will she also pay tribute to those journalists who have given their lives in reporting these issues around the world, and perhaps urge the Minister to do something at the UN to protect them?

[Emily Thornberry]

The hon. Lady is quite right. Unfortunately, far too many journalists around the world are killed for reporting abuses of human rights. I join her in paying tribute to them.

I was talking about Thurgood Marshall’s anniversary, which gives us an opportunity to celebrate the life of this great human rights hero. In three days’ time, we are going to mark another anniversary. Unfortunately, there is no such cause for celebration, but it is central to our discussion. On Saturday, it will be a year since our Prime Minister held hands with Donald Trump just hours before he signed the executive order banning Muslim refugees from America. That was an act devoid of compassion by a President incapable of shame, and the start of a long and painful year of similar acts on the global stage.

We have now reached the stage where Donald Trump can describe the countries of the continent of Africa, including 19 of our Commonwealth cousins, as “shitholes”—and there is not a peep of protest from our Government. Instead, they continue to insist that Her Majesty the Queen, the head of the Commonwealth, must welcome him into her home. Perhaps next time the Foreign Secretary talks about “supine invertebrate jellies” he should take a good look at himself in the mirror.

However, Donald Trump’s behaviour has had one important consequence that goes to the heart of the motion. Last week, a Gallup poll revealed that in the past year global approval of American leadership had fallen to 18%, the lowest in the history of the survey. That leaves a massive void waiting to be filled by a country—so what about us? What about a country such as ours? Are we prepared to take the lead internationally on conflict resolution, climate change, human rights and the refugee crisis? Are we are prepared not just to wring our hands about the suffering of the Rohingya, the Yemeni people and the Palestinian refugees, but to do something—to take a global lead—to end that suffering? Are we prepared to stand up to Donald Trump and tell him clearly that he is not just wrong on UN funding cuts, climate change and refugees, but simply unfit to govern? That is the action we need to take, that is the policy the Labour party stands on and that is the message that this motion sends. I commend it to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alistair Burt]

I have spoken for 12 minutes already, and I could speak for a lot longer. If I was to go into asylum support and the benefit system, I would be at the Dispatch Box for a lot longer. If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, that matter has been taken up by the Department—it is a complex issue, as he knows very well—and I do not intend to go into it now.

For people contemplating the perilous voyage to Europe, our long-term focus has been on improving conditions where they are, so that they may decide to take up opportunities locally, rather than to undertake dangerous journeys. At the same time, we are taking steps to assist vulnerable people who are already on the move. I share the deep concern and alarm expressed by Members of the House about modern-day slavery. That was not a key part of the speech of the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury, simply because one cannot cover everything. The conditions migrants face in Libya—we have seen them most recently in the CNN reports on modern slavery and slave auctions—have been appalling, and they have reminded us how acute the crisis is.

We welcome the Libyan authorities’ commitment to investigation. I met the Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister recently to discuss the issue. I assure the House that the Government are doing all they can to go after the criminal gangs and networks of traffickers who profit from this human misery. The Royal Navy has destroyed 173 smuggling boats and saved more than 12,500 lives since Operation Sophia began, and Border Force vessels have provided vital search and rescue support, rescuing more than 4,500 people to date.

We are protecting the most vulnerable people on transit routes, including through a new £75 million migration programme focused on the route from west Africa via the Sahel to Libya. So far, our programmes have enabled 1,400 migrants to voluntarily return from Libya and reintegrate successfully into their home countries, while providing much-needed emergency interventions for more than 20,000.

The hon. Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) mentioned the International Organisation for Migration. I met Bill Swing, the charismatic director of IOM who will, sadly, complete his final term later this year and who has done so much to manifest the qualities of that organisation. We had a conversation about what we are all doing in relation to that process from west Africa through to Libya. If we are to challenge these gangs, we have to tackle every part of the process, as well as think more directly about what we can do about them when they reach Libya. It is important to cut off and prevent the process. We discussed the different ideas that different agencies are contemplating and already doing. This is a serious issue to which the House will return.

[Lady Hermon]

Before the Minister leaves the issue of Libya, I am sure he will agree with me that the most fundamental right of all is the right to life. There are people in the United Kingdom who suffered grievously as a result of Gaddafi-sponsored IRA Semtex bombs. Will the Minister assure me that, as well as the other human rights crises in the Mediterranean, that human rights issue, which affects people right across the United Kingdom, is still discussed with the Libyan Government?

Victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA Terrorism: Compensation

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[James Cartlidge]

I strongly agree. The point we are trying to put across is that the past catches up with those who perpetrate these vile acts. I am told by the Minister that the President of the United States has vetoed that Bill. It remains to be seen what will happen because, as I understand it, Hilary Clinton has pledged to support it. It seems hard to believe that the Bill is going to go away quietly, given that the biggest act of terrorism in the history of the west and the biggest attack on US sovereign territory since, I believe, Pearl Harbour, is involved.

After all, it must be remembered that cases against Saudi Arabia have been ongoing for years. The whole point of the Bill was to enable those litigants to overcome the issue of immunity. I personally think the Bill will come back and that we need to be cognisant of that. The hon. Gentleman’s important point was well made and I think it encapsulates that, when states support terror, justice eventually catches up with them. We are here to ensure that that is the case.

It will be helpful if I explain my personal involvement with this issue. I was elected last May as the Member of Parliament for South Suffolk, and that summer I met one of my constituents, Charles Arbuthnot, who is a campaigner on this cause and whose sister, as a 22-year-old WPC serving her country on the frontline early in her career, was murdered in the Harrods bomb attack with explosives supplied by Libya. He is one of the key campaigners.

In the months afterwards, Charles and I exchanged letters, and I wrote to the Minister many times about the subject to probe a key point. I had been surprised, being new to the subject, unlike many hon. Members here, to hear from the Minister that a US citizen who had been caught up in the same bombing that had so brutally slain my constituent’s sister had been compensated. To me that was quite extraordinary.

I wrote to my hon. Friend the Minister and we had a long exchange of letters about it. I was shocked to discover, when looking back over all the debates on the subject, that the assumption, including by many hon. Members sitting here, was that the Government were aware of that compensation—it was a given—but that there was never any formal recognition of the fact that it had been paid out. I should say that my hon. Friend cares strongly about this issue, has served in Northern Ireland and will do all he can to help; there may be, shall we say, institutional issues at stake, in terms of the Department and successive Governments.

Finally, in March this year, I received a letter from my hon. Friend the Minister in which he referred to the deal made between the US and Libya, saying:

“Whilst the Commission did award compensation to a victim of the Harrods bomb, it is not possible to determine who the recipient was.”

He then went on to talk about whether that sets a precedent, which I think is absolutely key to this. He said:

“In future engagement with the Libyan Government, it may help us to mention that Libyan money has already been used to compensate victims of Qadhafi-inspired IRA terrorism. On the other hand, the Libyans may claim that Qadhafi made the decision to make payments to the US and that the decision to include US victims of the Harrods bombing within these payments was a US and not a Libyan one. They may therefore argue that this does not set a precedent for any future payments for victims of Qadhafi-inspired terrorism.”

My view is that it absolutely sets a precedent. Quite simply, money was paid to the victims—that is the bottom line. That is what our victims are seeking, because they want their redress and their justice, just as the Americans have received.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing forward this very important debate. Bearing in mind that the coalition Government took over in 2010, headed by the then Prime Minister the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron), does the hon. Gentleman share my disappointment, to put it lightly, that the British Government have not espoused the claims of the individual victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA violence? Instead they have insisted that individual victims should make their own individual claims. That is quite impossible for them. The simple solution is for the Government to do the right thing and to espouse their claims.

[James Cartlidge]

I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury, the Chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, will be looking in detail at the issue of espousal shortly. If we go through all the documentation over the years, it is striking how there was a distinct change in tone around 2010. Let us be quite open about it—until then, the Government were proactive; they wanted to help and wanted to fight for justice. After that time, we kept getting the same line: “This is a private matter, but we will facilitate.” That has been the line ever since, and it has almost never changed. Even if we took that as the Government position, more can be done, but I will come on to that.

In terms of the precedent, if no money had ever been paid to anybody, there would still be a campaign, but I dare say it would be slightly easier for those campaigning to live with that and swallow it. If the money had been paid to a country such as Russia that had some deal with Libya, we might not be so surprised. However, the fact that money was paid to a citizen of the United States—our closest ally, with whom we stood shoulder to shoulder in the fight against terrorism—and that they hatched a deal in which they got paid off and our citizens, murdered in their own country, got nothing, remains a disgrace and a shame to this day. That is why we fight on this issue and why I will continue to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. I begin, as others have done, by underlining the importance of this debate in the wider picture of ensuring that the Government have a better understanding of these critical matters. I am grateful that the legislature is able to continue holding the Executive to account on an extremely sensitive issue—the legislature has been tested by the length of time it is taking to resolve these important matters. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) on his contribution; indeed, I congratulate all hon. Members on their very moving and pertinent contributions today.

When I first came across this issue before the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, I did not know a huge amount of detail, as was evident by the types of answers that I then provided. I hope that my answers today will express a determination to stick to the course, which I would have done even had I moved away from the Foreign Office. Thankfully I continue in this post, and I endeavour to do what I can to work with fellow parliamentarians to ensure that we can push this cause forward.

As has been recognised here today, the situation in Libya is at the heart of the issue and is a cause of absolute frustration in our not being able to move this forward. The situation is testing the patience of those seeking compensation. Until Libya has a Government we can work with, we are simply not able to consider what to do with the frozen assets—we are simply not able to have those conversations. Every time I have addressed this matter in Parliament, I have been pleased to say that the situation in Libya is incrementally better, and the same is true today. However, the situation is still very delicate. The Government of national accord, under Prime Minister Sarraj, are having a tough time of bringing together societies that for 40 years under Gaddafi had no ability to flourish. Our embassy is not fully functioning, and our ability to move in and out is still restricted, as expressed by our travel advice. As has been mentioned, Daesh is moving into certain areas and towns. The situation is difficult, but it is better than the last time I spoke to the House on this issue.

[Lady Hermon]

The Minister has listened carefully to the evidence given to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, of which I am pleased to be a member. I have a specific point on the 2011 EU regulation governing the freezing of assets. That regulation was implemented in the UK, but the Brexit decision means that the Government are free from that regulation. As there are no additional domestic measures on the freezing of Libyan assets, will he confirm that this is part of the Brexit negotiations?

[Mr Ellwood]

If hon. Members allow me, I will do my best to answer all the questions. My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) also mentioned Brexit—he is characteristically on top of Brexit matters—and my direct answer is that I am afraid that that is not the case. First, many of the EU’s financial regulations have been written or espoused by Britain because we led on financial services. Secondly, we are governed by UN regulations, and those are the ones of which we would be in breach. I will come and speak to the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) about that in more detail.

I met the Prime Minister-designate, as he then was, back in November 2015. I had subsequent meetings with the Foreign Minister of Libya, and I hope to meet him at the UN General Assembly next week—I will be raising this matter, too. Our new Foreign Secretary has also raised this matter, and our previous Foreign Secretary, now the Chancellor, raised it when he visited Tripoli only a few months ago. I wrote to Libya’s then Justice Minister about the formation of the committee on this very issue, but there has since been a reshuffle—that happens, as we know—and the justice post is currently vacant. I am waiting to see who the new Justice Minister is. I will be making contact to pursue these matters as soon as that appointment is made.

Dog Meat (South Korea)

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Oliver Dowden]

I completely agree with the hon. Lady. As she says, the United Kingdom is a leader in animal welfare standards, not just for domestic animals but for farm animals. I take a slightly less negative view of the opportunities of Brexit. Of course there is a danger that we go for the lowest common denominator in trade deals but, equally, there are opportunities. For example, in the United Kingdom at the moment we cannot discriminate against the very poor welfare standards we see in some European countries—all we have managed to do is increase the base level a little. In fact, we will now have the opportunity to impose higher welfare standards on all meat imported into this country. I hope very much that the Government will seize that opportunity as part of those Brexit negotiations.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I have received a large number of emails from constituents on this. People in Northern Ireland feel very passionately and care very deeply about their dogs and other pets, and the standards of animal welfare in Northern Ireland are generally very high. Given that this is a devolved matter for the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly, and in the light of the fact that Invest Northern Ireland has sent trade delegations to South Korea since 2010, will the hon. Gentleman encourage the Minister to liaise very closely with the devolved Administrations, including the Northern Ireland Executive, so that this is a joint effort?

[Oliver Dowden]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. First, she is absolutely right about the scale of the interest in this matter. I have received a large amount of correspondence on it and it is clear that people are very worried. Secondly, she is absolutely right to say that, as part of drawing on different relations that the Westminster Government have, we should be building on relationships with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to further advance this case.

I am conscious that many Members would like to speak in the debate, so I conclude by urging the Minister to take note of the scale of public opinion and to use the many and considerable offices the United Kingdom has to continue to press this case, in a spirit of friendship and co-operation. Even in the countries involved, most people know that this trade is not acceptable and share our abhorrence for it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine West]

We are all aware of the high-profile debate about grammar schools in the Chamber now, which is perhaps why there are not as many hon. Members in Westminster Hall. Nevertheless, we have representation from almost every party, which is great.

[Lady Hermon]

A number of hon. Members referred to the atrocious trade of greyhounds being exported and cruelly consumed in South Korea. Greyhounds are very intelligent animals. They also have a high haemoglobin count and are one of the few types of dog that can give another dog a blood transfusion. Therefore, will the hon. Lady take the opportunity to say something about what her party, as a united party on this issue, might do to ensure that greyhounds are not exported through Europe or elsewhere, so that they are not consumed—which is a grisly business—in South Korea?

[Catherine West]

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East has a track record of raising that issue on a number of occasions and has been a champion for animal welfare. Certainly, we could raise the greyhound issue with the Government again. Perhaps we could even seek a further debate here so that we give campaigners every assurance that it is at the top of our animal welfare agenda.

Finally, there are questions that go beyond the specifics of dog meat. The UK has come a long way in improving practices to ensure that our meat industry has, as much as it can, a sense of health and safety, welfare requirements and systems for oversight and scrutiny. Depending on the level of detail into which the Minister gets with his colleagues in South Korea, perhaps we could do some best practice exchanges. Our universities and veterinary schools have excellence in research and development. Are there some R and D exchanges that the Minister could give us some assurance on?

I thank you, Mr Nuttall, for chairing the debate. I hope we can continue to see progress, particularly in the timing of the Minister’s interventions with his opposite number. As the big events of 2018 come up, he will have more opportunities to develop relationships with countries that are hosting large sporting events. He, his officers, his parliamentary private secretaries and all the other Ministers who get to pop into South Korea and make representations on many issues can try several different approaches.

The Gulf

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Westminster Hall

[Charlotte Leslie]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. We should be looking closely at how the UAE facilitates our shared battle against extremism, which I will talk about later.

I could also say that the debate is timely for social reasons. Amid human rights issues and questions about the role of Wahabism in extremism, Saudi Arabia has embarked on a time of enormous transition, against the backdrop of a changing Iran and an “Arab sprung”—now, rather, a perfect storm. I could also point to the little known role that the UAE plays in accommodating Syrian refugees. I will not say much about any of that, however, because I am sure my colleagues, such as my right hon. Friends the Members for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames) and for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan), and many others present today, who have far more experience in the region than me, will cover those topics magnificently.

I want to talk about a path less trodden, starting with some lines from a musical. In Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice’s “Jesus Christ Superstar”, a newly dead Judas accosts a soon-to-be-crucified Jesus with some slightly aggressive questions:

“Every time I look at You, I don’t understand…why’d you choose such a backward time

In such a strange land?

If you’d come today

You could have reached the whole nation

Israel in four BC had no mass communication.”

Those lines touch on something so fundamental to the Gulf and its politics that we cannot discuss the region without them. Yet western politics has such an inadequate currency of thought and language with which to discuss it: Islam and its values today.

Islam is a religion that is inseparable in its content from the Arab peninsula. In its own 1400s, it is now, perhaps, going through an enlightenment or reformation process that Christianity went through so brutally and bloodily in our own calendar’s medieval period. This reformation, however, is happening with AK47s, global travel and the internet—“mass communication”. As a result of global travel and mass communication, Islam’s internal challenges are not only the problem of the Gulf and the middle east, because Islam is now a European religion, too, so its challenges are challenges for everyone.

The west has been very good at debating political solutions using political institutions, and security solutions using military equipment. None of that, however, touches on what is going on at the heart of the faith of Islam—things that have become either a victim of language inflation through abstract noun overuse, or remarkably unfashionable: values. The UAE ambassador to Russia, his excellency Omar Saif Ghobash, put it to me strikingly, “We are politicising our ethics, when we should be ethicising our politics.”

In what could be called a western values vacuum, perhaps born of a bourgeois squeamishness about anything absolute in a relativist post-secular world, I have found that some of the most sophisticated understanding of extremism has come from the Gulf. In many ways that is not surprising, because Gulf nations have real skin in the game—the continuation of their very society in the face of the chaos around them.

Furthermore, Gulf nations are at home with, and understand in a way that the west finds hard to digest, the role of religion and faith and their values, as integral to politics and political thinking. For example, when I commented on the prevalence of conspicuous long-term thinking in the dialogue in the UAE, a Minister pointed out to me that it would be dishonourable for a leader not to leave a fine legacy of long-term thinking for the next generation. In Islam, the idea that man is here only for a season, and that it is his legacy that is important, is embedded in the way people think—a perfect of example of where political thinking and faith are inseparable.

We are used to discussing—it is right to do so—how emerging middle eastern societies can benefit from the experience of the west in forging relatively stable, free-speech societies that respect human rights. I know that colleagues will have that discussion. We are also used to debating the military and economic collaborations that benefit both partners—I look forward to that discussion, too, and many Members present have great experience of that.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Will the hon. Lady comment on and take the opportunity to pay tribute to President Obama, in his last months as President of the United States of America, given his long-term thinking about the Gulf region? What legacy has he left to that region?

[Charlotte Leslie]

I do not envy President Obama’s role, given the legacy he was left with—a legacy of just how disastrous short-term and arrogant thinking can be, from the west invading Iraq. I was very against the Iraq war and, sadly, my preconceptions then, outside this place, can be testified to now. The ongoing role of America and the middle east’s lack of trust in that country will be a challenge that we must all meet. I also pay tribute to the work of John Kerry in beginning to forge some kind of relationship there, which is extremely difficult.

Some of the most sophisticated understanding of extremism that I have come across was at the UAE Hedayah centre, which is dedicated to examining extremism and its causes. Hedayah has deconstructed several political common misconceptions: first, that extremism is simply born of poverty—it is not; it is about much more than only poverty. To equate ending extremism with simply ending poverty is misleading and dangerous.

After all, Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian academic who inspired the takfiri thinking of al-Qaeda, was far from poor. I recommend anyone interested in the region and the birth of extremism to read him. His life and writings, from an early autobiography, “A Child from the Village”, to his later, explosive and famous book, “Milestones”, show that he felt isolated. A telling passage describes, in third person, his response to an event engraved on his adult consciousness. As a young boy, he spent just a day in a less progressive school than his usual one. He wrote, referring to himself:

“Our child’s soul was filled with repugnance at everything that surrounded him. He felt bitter, abject loneliness.”

Qutb’s response? To become, at age six, in his own words, a “Missionary” in what he calls his progressive school’s “struggle” against the less sophisticated school. That isolated and bitter, rather pampered and spoilt, primary school pupil later went as a student to America, where he felt even more isolated and bitter, and returned with a new struggle—as an Islamic extremist missionary. He attempted to execute Egypt’s president, whom he saw as a traitor to Islam, was imprisoned and executed by Nasser in 1966 and has become a celebrated martyr of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Sayyid Qutb has been credited as the creator of takfiri Islam, which provides the convenient clause that if someone—even a fellow Muslim—does not think in the same way, they are no Muslim and can be killed. The story of that privileged man illustrates well the simple point made by the UAE Hedayah anti-extremism unit that it is not all about poverty. Those who join extremist groups seek something that is not so different from that sought by any human being: identity, community and purpose. The mission, therefore, is how to provide something more attractive than Daesh that meets the needs of disaffected—often young—people. A way out of poverty is doubtless part of that, but we are completely wrong if we think that is the simple answer.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ellwood]

I am not sure how helpful that comment is. Anybody travelling to the region needs to read the travel advice. I encourage the hon. Lady to go to Saudi Arabia, because—as others have found—she will come back having learned something. She will discover, especially if it is a visit endorsed by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, that she will have access to many of the programmes that are taking place in what is very much a culturally conservative society.

There is a desire in this House for immediate, 21st-century change—to slide across our values, our standards, our processes and our democratic systems all in one. That is not going to happen quickly, in the same way that it did not happen quickly in this country, from giving women the vote to getting rid of slavery. The other day, I went back to my old stomping ground of the London Stock Exchange, where I worked—I made a visit there for a listing that was taking place with Morocco. Women were not allowed on the trading floor in the UK until the 1970s. Our first female ambassador was not appointed until 1976. These things take time.

Of course, in the 21st century we expect countries to take advantage of best practice and of the support and programmes that are available, so that they do not have to take the 800 years that we have taken since Magna Carta to develop the standards that we enjoy today.

[Lady Hermon]

Will the Minister take this opportunity to put on record the gratitude that is felt by a number of countries in the Gulf that have benefited from former members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary—very distinguished members of the RUC, from Northern Ireland—who have gone out to Gulf states and improved their human rights records in policing?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady makes a valid point. That is a great example of countries using that experience of dealing with diverse groups and communities that have been broken in the past and that need to heal and move forward. That experience and knowledge can be taken to countries in the Gulf, so that it can be shared. I pay huge tribute to the teams who have gone from Northern Ireland to the Gulf. In fact, it is not only in the Gulf where they are doing such work; they are doing it even further afield. I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making that point and putting it on the record.

Deaths Abroad (Consular Assistance)

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered consular assistance for families of people who die abroad.

As the Minister is aware, the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs carried out an inquiry in 2013-14 into this very matter, and many of the people I will reference today contributed to that inquiry. The reason why I secured the debate is threefold. First, I want to look at what changes have been made and what assessment has been made of those changes. Secondly, I want to feed back the thoughts of those who called for the inquiry, some positive, some critical, but all, I suggest, constructive. Thirdly, I want to pay tribute to some brave and fearsome campaigners who have selflessly committed to fighting for better support, not for themselves but for people who find themselves in the dreadful position that I will describe.

I start by acknowledging that there are some people in this country who have had very recent experience of this: I refer to those caught up in the atrocities in Paris last Friday. The impact will have been felt not just by the victims and their families, but by the consular support staff at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I do not envy them their task at a time when they may themselves be traumatised by events in the city in which they live and work.

I will set out why there was a call for the Foreign Affairs Committee to have this inquiry last year. What were the experiences of families whose loved ones died abroad that led to them putting their lives on hold and mounting campaigns to change the experience for others? Let us remember that it is hard enough when someone close to us dies in this country. For someone who is struggling to cope with their shock and grief, to have to find a way through the minefield of a country with which they are unfamiliar—perhaps they do not speak the language and the customs and laws are different to theirs—is an experience that I would not wish on anybody. Naturally, people in those circumstances will turn to their own country’s consular support services, but many have not found the support that they expected.

Support After Murder and Manslaughter Abroad is a charity that campaigns for improvements in Government policy, and provides telephone advice and peer support to people bereaved by homicide overseas. Eve Henderson is someone I do not know, but she represents SAMM Abroad and I believe she is here today. Other campaigners have urged me to pay tribute to her for her tireless campaigning since her husband was murdered overseas 17 years ago. I pay tribute to her strength and determination. I hope that, in some small way, people like me can take some of the burden from her shoulders.

In 2011, SAMM Abroad sent 150 families a questionnaire asking them to document their experience of dealing with the FCO, the police and coroners. Fifty families responded, and the vast majority of respondents were negative about the service provided by the FCO. When asked whether the FCO was helpful 56% said, “not at all”, 38% said, “not very”, and the remaining 6% said, “quite helpful”. No one said that the FCO was “very helpful” and, as Members can see, 94% felt that they had not got the help that they wanted.

The evidence in the Foreign Affairs Committee report reflected similar findings. I recognise and applaud that Committee in the previous Parliament for doing much of the work required to ensure that the families of those who die abroad are treated justly and with dignity by officials. The inquiry spoke to one mother who found that most of the advice she was offered was of less use than the advice available on websites. Others spoke of calls going unreturned, wrong advice being given and, most disturbingly, being encouraged to have their loved one cremated abroad without being advised that that could mean that there would be no coroner’s report back in the UK.

I should say at this juncture that, until recently, Scots or those who lived in Scotland who died abroad were not afforded an inquiry. Thanks to the work of Death Abroad—You’re Not Alone, otherwise known as DAYNA, and Julie Love, who spearheads its campaigns and who I will say more of later, the Scottish Government have now made steady progress in improving the treatment of such families. The Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Bill proposes to bring in discretionary fatal accident inquiries for those who have died overseas and have been repatriated to Scotland. That is a welcome step forward and builds upon Lord Cullen’s review which reported in 2009.

Another welcome measure is the increased accountability for families. Where the Lord Advocate decides not to hold a fatal accident inquiry he or she—it may be a she in the future—will have to justify the reason for that in writing to the family on request. I say all this primarily to pay tribute to DAYNA, but also to highlight the fact that there are distinctive elements of the Scottish legal system that directly affect the families of those who have died overseas. That must be borne in mind by the FCO and in the new training it offers consular staff.

The most disturbing and compelling evidence was from people who, like the bereaved mother highlighted in the report, found that consular support staff showed callous disregard for what they were going through. In her words,

“I found them completely without empathy at a time in my life when I really needed them.”

Although the report found that there was sometimes an unreasonably high expectation of the support that the FCO could provide, nobody would argue that people could not expect some common decency—a human response to a human tragedy—and yet they were not getting it. That was not an isolated case, and I will give more examples later. Nobody expects consular staff to offer counselling services—they are not the Samaritans—but the dismissive attitude and cold responses many have experienced are just unacceptable. If any of my caseworkers were to treat constituents in the same way, they would not last very long in my employ. I notice that they are sitting here today, so I will quickly add that I have absolute confidence in every one of them before they stage a walkout.

That is a basic summary of why groups such as SAMM Abroad and DAYNA urged that this inquiry be conducted. I will return to some of this in more detail by examining the three reasons I have called for the debate, but first let me share the story of Julie Love, mother of Colin Love and founder of DAYNA. Julie lives in Glasgow. She is an ordinary woman who has been through an extraordinarily traumatic time and has done something extraordinary as a result. Let me read out some of her words:

“My son Colin Love drowned in the sea close to Margarita Island, Venezuela, whilst on a Caribbean cruise in January 2009. He was 23 years old. He was an excellent swimmer. The beach was recommended to him by the cruise company despite the water being notorious for riptides and undertow. There were no warning signs and no lifeguards…it was easy to make contact with the Foreign & Commonwealth Office in the UK. My first contact…was at approximately 2am on 30th January 2009, several hours after receiving news of Colin’s death from his friend. I spoke to a member of the Global Response Team who was very empathetic but unable to assist as the FCO had not yet received notification of the death. He told me he would leave a message with the South American desk to ensure I would be contacted as soon as the information was received the following morning. I never received that call. I contacted them at approx. 12 noon the following day. I had not slept. I’d just found out my son had died on the other side of the world and I was frantic. I spoke to a female at the desk who curtly responded, ‘We deal with thousands of Brits dying abroad every year. I don’t have a message to call you back’. I was appalled.”

I am certain that there is nobody here who would not be appalled by that. Julie continued:

“She reluctantly took my details and said she’d call back. I am still waiting on that call. After contacting the HQ of the cruise company in Miami I was able to ascertain the telephone number of the British Honorary Consul on Margarita Island and made direct contact by telephone. His spoken English was very poor but we were eventually able to communicate by email.”

Should it really be that hard? Should she really have had to go to all that trouble?

Julie Love says:

“As I have since discovered has been the experience of many families I was advised to have my son cremated, not to travel to Margarita Island, that the cremation could be arranged on the island and they’d return my son’s ashes. How appalling! What mother wants to be told that she cannot hold her child ever again, especially when it’s possible that she can? I was adamant my son was going to be repatriated to Scotland and that I would go to the island to bring him home. I was advised not to as it would delay his repatriation. Reluctantly I did not travel…and it still took 4 weeks for my son’s body to be repatriated. I was advised four different dates and had church services…booked only to have to re-arrange. I had family and friends travelling to Scotland from all over the world and some of them had to return home...and were unable to pay respects at my son’s funeral because of the date changes.”

Julie mentions other problems, a number of which she, I and all campaigners accept are not down to the FCO; they are down to other people. For example, Colin Love’s friend was told that he had to return to the liner because he was not a relative. The liner docked in Aruba the following day, and the friend travelled from Aruba to Miami, Miami to London, and London to Glasgow. He had very thoughtfully brought back Colin’s luggage. He was charged for excess baggage every step of the way. Julie said in her submission to the inquiry:

“So in answer to the questions—No, I was not offered accurate advice and certainly given no guidance. I feel that the FCO handled my case abhorrently and without sensitivity to my feelings or to my son’s dignity. I was later to find out that my son’s body remained on the beach (uncovered) for approx. 12 hours.”

She discovered that because a British newspaper printed a picture of it—again, something that none of us would ever want to associate ourselves with. I happen to know that Julie Love ran up a phone bill of more than £1,000 trying to resolve the issue—money that she just does not have—but there was no help available.

I have three reasons for securing this debate. The first, of course, is to ask what changes have been made and what assessment has been made of those changes. I welcome the progress the FCO has made and the undertakings it gave in response to the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report, which include a recognition that the manner in which families were dealt with did, in some cases, fall far below the level of service that British citizens should have been able to expect. One response from the Government was to provide training for consular support staff in dealing with non-suspicious deaths. After the murders on the Tunisian beach in July this year, the Foreign Secretary said that training would be given to all consular advice staff to improve sensitivity and effectiveness in casework. I am keen to hear an update on that training and a timetable for ensuring that everyone has received it—I assume that not everyone has yet received the training. When can we expect the training’s effectiveness to be reviewed?

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I am reluctant to intervene on the hon. Lady, but I am deeply touched by what she has put on record today. As the Member representing a young honeymooning couple who died in a terrible drowning accident six days after their marriage—they died on 23 October—my experience of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been brilliant. The global response team acted during the night, and the sensitivity that it showed to both families was enormously courteous and helpful in tragic circumstances.

[Anne McLaughlin]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I was coming on to this, but I will say it now. There may be consular support staff listening to this debate who feel quite hurt by what I am saying, but obviously I am not referring to those who deal with such situations properly. I will give more evidence for why I know that Julie Love’s experience is not a one-off and why it is so important that we follow this up, but the hon. Lady is right: we hear about the terrible experiences. We have to accept that the majority of experiences may well be good, but I have not heard much about them.

Following the work of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the FCO’s response, one area that is still of concern to families is deaths that are not identified as murder or manslaughter but are classed as suspicious. In some cases, the coroners have returned the equivalent of open verdicts; in others, the family suspect foul play. Will the Minister comment on the FCO’s role in supporting family campaigns for justice, especially where the local inquiry is ineffective or where there are problems with the coroner’s report? I appreciate that the FCO handles all cases individually, but there will inevitably be cases where there has been malpractice in the local investigations. When do the British Government step in to support British families in such cases? When the access to justice unit was set up, it was going to review the policy on suspicious deaths and consider whether it could offer similar levels of support in some instances where there has been a suspicious death. I hope the Minister can update us on that. Has the review taken place? If so, when will we get the details? If not, what is the timetable? What support is being offered to those families?

We can agree that all cases will be different, but it would be beneficial if the system was structured so that all families know what support they can expect as a minimum. Paragraph 15 of the Government’s response to the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report stated that they would begin gathering evidence on the handling of deaths on an ongoing basis from May 2015; the evidence would be collected by independent research partners from a representative selection of all FCO customers and published in the annual report. It would be useful to know whether anything has been gleaned from that research so far.

The second reason for securing this debate is to feed back the thoughts of some of those who called for the inquiry. As I said, some are positive and some not so positive, but all seek to be constructive. SAMM Abroad says that, over the past three years, the FCO has improved the support it provides to bereaved families—all of us here will welcome that—but although the initiatives are welcome, families are still reporting significant issues with the consistency of the service provided. SAMM Abroad contends that the current practice of putting families in contact with desk officers is failing. Although there are notable exceptions, as we have heard, they are, in SAMM Abroad’s view, precisely that: exceptions. Desk officers lack proper training in dealing with traumatised families, which can lead to families feeling greater trauma after their contact with the FCO. I know that training has been suggested and agreed to, but we have yet to hear what stage it is at. There are frequent complaints that desk officers fail to keep families informed of developments or mishandle important information.

SAMM Abroad says that another significant shortcoming of using desk officers is that they move frequently and rarely stay the duration of an investigation. Most cases will not come to trial within two years, and many take longer, which means that families continually have to retell their story to new colleagues, which causes frustration and distress and can lead to poor case management. Although SAMM Abroad accepts that it is unrealistic to expect desk officers to remain in post for extended periods, their continual movement has another significant impact: a loss of institutional expertise. Frequent movement not only disrupts contact with families but disrupts relationships with local organisations and services that could provide support to families.

SAMM Abroad has come up with an excellent suggestion that I would apply across the board for the families of anyone who dies abroad, not just for the families of those who are murdered, although obviously such families face additional difficulties. SAMM Abroad suggests a small, centralised unit within the FCO with specially trained staff to act as the principal point of contact for families. The unit would be responsible for dealing with the desk officers and extracting information for the families. That would have a number of advantages: families would not be not upset or traumatised by having to retell their story after desk officers move; it would allow liaison with other agencies to be more effective, because staff would have immediate access to case files and other information; and the development of FCO policy could become more effective, as the unit would be able to observe recurrent issues and spot failings more immediately. If the Minister cannot commit to the establishment of such a unit today, and I suspect that he cannot, will he commit to considering it in more detail and perhaps meeting me and other campaigners, or at the very least accepting information from us on this suggestion? I think the creation of such a unit is an excellent suggestion that could resolve a lot of problems.

Suspicious deaths are the second issue that campaigners feel still has not been fully addressed. The report talks of families whose loved ones were murdered, but for those whose loved ones suffered a suspicious death, the agony seems to be never-ending. Take the case of the man who was murdered almost seven years ago: the trial of those who murdered him ended 18 months ago, and still the family is unable to have a funeral for him. I recently met someone—I am not naming anyone because I have not asked if I can do so—whose mother died in France more than two years ago, and she is still waiting to bury her. Any right-thinking person will agree that those situations are horrific. There are various stages of grief, but these families are stuck at the start of that process because they cannot lay their loved ones to rest. How can they be expected to grieve, or to continue any semblance of a normal life?

I am sure the Minister is aware of and is as horrified as I am by the cases where bodies have been returned minus internal organs. It is like something out of a horror film, and the families must play out that horror film in their head day in, day out, night after night. We must surely be able to intervene to put a stop to all that and to find a way to let those families move on. There are also questions about the appeal processes after a conviction and the way in which families are advised when the perpetrator of a crime committed against their loved one is due to be, or is, released from prison.

As the Minister will know, one of the big overarching criticisms in the report was the lack of consistency. Julie Love has asked me to raise something that exemplifies what was meant by that finding, and it relates to the constituents of the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) who died so tragically in October.

As I have said, Julie’s son, Colin, died while swimming. The beach he was on is noted for its dangerous riptides, but nobody—neither the travel company nor the FCO advice—told him about those riptides. He had thoroughly researched where he was going. Julie Love suggested to the inquiry—it was documented in the report and she understood that this suggestion was being taken up—that the FCO website’s travel advice should include information about anywhere with particularly unpredictable or potentially dangerous waters. I appreciate that the FCO is working with travel companies to improve the information provided—that is good; that is progress—but Julie’s clear understanding was that the FCO would also provide this information. People are more likely to take seriously what their Government tell them than what a travel company tells them, so this is important.

The advice now appears on the information about Venezuela, where Colin died. It also appears on the Dubai page, but apparently it only appeared there after a British citizen died in a swimming accident similar to the one that killed Colin. Moreover, when the young honeymooning couple from Northern Ireland died so tragically earlier this year while swimming in South Africa, Julie was told that it was not the FCO’s practice to give that kind of advice. Well, either the FCO gives that advice or it does not give it, but it must be consistent. People will understand that Julie was particularly disturbed by this incident, and of course anyone’s heart will go out to the honeymooning couple and their families, but in her communications with the FCO Julie had specifically noted the beaches of South Africa as danger spots. Who knows if the couple would have read such advice if it had been provided, and who knows if they would have taken note of it? However, surely the point is that it is our duty to do all we can to alert people and then allow them to make their own decisions, and that cannot be done only after an event. Provision must be consistent. I would be really grateful to the Minister if he could commit to ensuring that that happens. It is quite important that it does happen and, as I said, I think it has already been agreed that it would happen.

Regarding the overarching problem of how consular staff deal with grieving families, people listening to this debate may believe that because the families are grieving everything becomes magnified and perhaps things are not quite as bad as they say, but I can tell the Minister that I know what these families say is correct. Of course, as I have already said, there will be great advisers out there, who put their heart and soul into supporting people, and I want them to know that I am not talking to them. However, I know that the things that I am talking about do happen, and that when they happen it is crushing. I know, because a few years ago my brother Stephen died very suddenly in a foreign country. I will not go into detail, because I am certain beyond doubt that my family do not want to read about it in the newspapers again; it is too raw and it is too personal. Nevertheless, I feel that I have to tell the Minister that I was one of those family members and I experienced exactly what all of those other families describe. I have heard them describe the experience of dealing with the FCO as being like suffering a bereavement all over again, and it is true. It is hard to hear, it is hard to say, but it is true.

I was stunned to have an adviser from the consular support team shout down the phone at me. There was no reason for it; I was too weak and too confused to have given him any reason to shout at me. He was clearly just having a bad day, but the lack of compassion astounded me. In addition, I was given advice that I later regretted taking: “Have him cremated.” I did. The “support” that I got was a list of preferred cremation providers, all of whom wanted four times as much money as I ended up paying. The FCO staff did not care that we could not afford their expensive recommendations; it was of no consequence to them that we did not speak the language and they did. Worst of all, they did not do anything to help us to get the answers that we were so desperately seeking. Had it not been for a friend of mine who happened to live in that city, I do not know how we would have got through the experience. If it happened now, we would have the comfort of a fatal accident inquiry, but then we were more or less dismissed as if we did not matter—as if he did not matter.

When I speak of the distress that these families feel, my family have felt it too. When I speak of the coldness with which they are treated, I was cold-shouldered too. As others have said, when I really needed someone to have a bit of compassion, there was not an ounce of it. That is why I know what strength it must take for someone to put aside their grief and to get out there and fight for others. I really pay tribute to those who have done that—Eve Henderson and many more people who I do not have permission to name, but they know who they are. Julie Love has been a tireless advocate for the families.

[Lady Hermon]

Would the hon. Lady like me to intervene?

[Anne McLaughlin]

Yes, please.

[Lady Hermon]

It is very kind of the hon. Lady to allow me to intervene and I am very grateful to her for very kindly drawing the House’s attention, and the Minister’s attention, to the dreadful experience of the young honeymooning couple. They were in their mid-20s; they were inseparable in life; and tragically they ended up being inseparable in death as well. However, I repeat that the FCO and the consular staff were extraordinarily kind and compassionate to their families.

I do not want to delay the hon. Lady from concluding her contribution, which is deeply moving.

[Anne McLaughlin]

I very much thank the hon. Lady. I will try to continue.

I will end by saying that Julie Love has been a tireless advocate for the families of British citizens who have died abroad. People such as Julie and Eve do this work not for themselves—it is too late for them—but for others so that their grief is not compounded. Julie and Eve’s organisations support individuals and while there is always a role for the third sector to provide additional, supplementary or specialist support, it is clear that sometimes such organisations have to step into a gap left by the varying level of support offered by consular services.

The families and campaign groups have many more questions that they would like me to ask, but I think I should stop now and allow others to speak. I simply ask, finally, that the Minister agrees to receive information from us, and perhaps at a later stage to meet with us to discuss how we can ensure that we meet people’s needs and—where the FCO cannot do that—how we ensure that there is support for the organisations that can. After all, Minister, there is nobody better placed to tell you what was missing, what is still missing and what is really needed when someone you love dies overseas than my family, and people such as Eve Henderson and Julie Love, the mother of Colin Love.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this debate. As the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) will know, my experience of Foreign Office staff, particularly its consular staff, has been very positive, and I wanted to put that on the record. I am grateful to her for securing the debate and giving us all an opportunity to speak of our experiences.

On 23 October this year, two young constituents, John and Lynette Rodgers of Holywood in County Down, were on their honeymoon in South Africa. They had got married at First Holywood Presbyterian church just six days earlier. They were happy and they were in love. As I said in my intervention, they were inseparable in life. They were much loved by their families. Lynette’s mother, Eva Reilly, had been widowed some years ago. She has one son, Graham, but Lynette was her only daughter. Likewise, John Rodgers was the only son of his family, who come from Ballygowan. His mother and father, Billy and Johann, were deeply distressed by his tragic, untimely death in South Africa, as were John’s sisters, Gwen and Kathryn.

When the news came through late on the Friday evening, I went straight to the home of Eva Reilly. The Police Service of Northern Ireland had already visited to break the terrible, tragic news of the death of this young couple on honeymoon in South Africa. The global response team kept in touch with both families during that night, and the young lady on duty did not leave her desk at 9 o’clock, Saturday morning, before phoning both families to update them with the latest information about their loved ones.

The consular staff were absolutely outstanding, both in South Africa and here in London in the Foreign Office. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for the sensitivity with which they handled a tragedy for both families, the whole community of Holywood and the town of Ballygowan. The families were enormously dignified and courageous in the face of terrible tragedy, but their sorrow and grief was lessened by the updating by, and the sensitivity and intervention of, Foreign Office staff. The PSNI also appointed a single liaison officer for both families, which was an exceedingly good decision. The bodies of John and Lynette were brought home on the Friday following the accident. That was absolutely remarkable. I say again that that is full credit to the Foreign Office staff, who made the travel arrangements, liaised closely with the PSNI and with the families at all times, and kept the local MP informed.

At the joint funeral of those two young people, which took place in the church in which they were married, hymns were played that they had sung just a fortnight before at their wedding. I have attended far too many funerals in Northern Ireland, but I do not think I have ever seen printed on the back of an order of service a tribute of thanks to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the PSNI family liaison officer, mentioned by name. I thought that was a wonderful tribute. I have subsequently written to the Foreign Secretary and to consular staff to thank them personally for what they did to support and give great comfort to two families and a community at a time of real need, and I am full of admiration for that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Buck. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) on securing the debate and highlighting this important issue. She spoke so powerfully and so sadly from personal experience, and she highlighted the many families who have campaigned for some years. She made an excellent speech and made specific points with which I agree, including asking the Minister to consider in detail whether a central unit to assist families might be the best way forward.

Sadly, many Members will have had constituents who died abroad. We know it is an awful experience for all those affected. The heartbreak of losing a friend or relative is often compounded by the stress of repatriating a body and navigating a foreign legal system. As we know, and as the hon. Member for Glasgow North East and the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) mentioned, consular assistance was required this weekend after the atrocities in Paris. I know all our sympathies are with everyone affected, including our consular and locally employed staff who are having to deal with the aftermath of that awful terrorist attack.

Sadly, there is a growing trend of British citizens being caught up in terrorist attacks abroad, including, as has already been mentioned, the attacks in Sousse in Tunisia in June, where more than 30 British citizens were killed, including my own constituent, Claire Windass, who was murdered while on holiday with her husband. In that case, the family told me that the consular assistance they were given was of a very high standard.

I note what the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) said about the very sad case of John and Lynette and how the consular assistance and support that was given to the families in very distressing circumstances was outstanding. I also note what the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said about the positive experiences that he had had over the years. However, my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) talked about the way in which families had been treated in the case of the Tunisian atrocity, so there is obviously a very mixed picture.

[Lady Hermon]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady and to everyone who has made a contribution. I am profoundly embarrassed by having to say that I have a commitment that means I have to leave the debate, but I did not want the hon. Lady to feel offended. I apologise to you, Ms Buck, and to the Minister and all colleagues for my leaving due to the pressure of a particular commitment that I simply cannot avoid attending. I apologise to the hon. Lady and thank her for offering sympathy to the families of the young honeymoon couple from my constituency who died. It is kind of her to do so.

[Diana Johnson]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments and for her apologies for leaving.

I hope the Minister will be able to update the House on the work that the FCO is undertaking to ensure that embassies are prepared to deal with major incidents and terror attacks, because unfortunately we see more of them happening. As the number of staff employed at consulates is reduced, what is being done to be able to quickly increase capacity at times of acute need?

I want to raise a few issues arising from the Foreign Affairs Committee report. Like the hon. Member for Glasgow North East, I want to refer to recommendations that came out of that excellent report. I pay tribute to the members of the Committee and to everyone who was willing to give evidence. I read the very distressing accounts of what had happened to their loved ones and the difficulties that they experienced in accessing support from consular services.

The first issue raised by the Select Committee report that I want to emphasise is the need to ensure that the support offered to families is consistent. It is clear that although in a number of cases families and loved ones have received excellent support, many individuals have been let down. That appears to be partly because of the low minimum standards and inconsistent procedures for dealing with deaths abroad. I am glad that the Foreign Office has recognised that problem, and I welcome its commitment to increase the monitoring of feedback and use that to improve training. Will the Minister say a little more about what that actually means in practice?

The Select Committee raised particular concerns about the support offered to families who have suffered a bereavement due to murder or manslaughter. I agree with the Committee that the current minimum offer to such families is far short of what British citizens should expect to receive. I am glad that the FCO accepted that finding and I welcome the fact that the Government have conducted a review, but it sounds like that review is a work in progress. Numerous conclusions identify further work to be undertaken. For example, the review concludes:

“We are already reviewing training and development opportunities for staff”,

and goes on to say:

“We will ask the AJU to consider data protection rules and whether there may be ways of working more smartly within these”.

It also says:

“The AJU will consider how best to support relatives and friends beyond the immediate family”,

and continues:

“The AJU will explore what further measures can be taken at UK and foreign airports to reduce distress for families who are travelling.”

All those commitments and opportunities for review are welcome, but it would be good if the Minister could give us a final update on exactly what the outcomes are.

Famagusta

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Gentleman needs to allow me to develop my argument. I will come to the role that Britain seeks to play in the important task of finding a solution.

A lasting settlement would have clear benefits for Cyprus, for the region and for the UK. Some 80,000 British nationals live in Cyprus, and 900,000 visit every year. A reunited Cyprus would unlock significant economic benefits through increased opportunities for trade, investment and tourism, including tourism to the Varosha area of Famagusta. The respected Peace Research Institute Oslo forecast that the peace dividend from a Cyprus settlement would amount to €20 billion over the next 20 years, and it would add, on average, 2.8% GDP growth in real terms every year. Those figures alone make a powerful case for the importance of securing a settlement.

Beyond the economic benefits, a settlement in Cyprus would help to advance regional stability. Cyprus is already a beacon of stability in a challenging region, and a settlement would reinforce the island’s security. It would open up the possibility of new energy and economic partnerships in the region, and bring new momentum to Turkey’s EU accession process. In all these areas there are opportunities for the United Kingdom.

It is clear that Turkey remains an important part of reaching a solution. We welcome Turkey’s support for a settlement, and public statements on that from President Erdogan and Prime Minister Davutoglu have been important in building support for a settlement. Turkey’s recent agreement to give the committee for missing persons in Cyprus access to 30 sites controlled by the Turkish military, which was mentioned by hon. Members, was a very helpful step. We welcome the positive response from the Republic of Cyprus to that and hope that the parties can build on this to generate even more confidence in the settlement process.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I have listened intently to the debate, which of course stirs memories of the past in Northern Ireland. I would like to make a suggestion to the Minister. The IRA murdered and disappeared a number of people 30 or 40 years ago. A very distinguished forensics expert has helped identify some of the remains of the disappeared—they have not all been found, sadly—and also helped in Bosnia. Will the Government please make a point of involving that very distinguished lady forensics expert in identifying those found in graves in Cyprus?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady makes an important point about the reconciliation and her words are now on the record. I am sure I will have discussions with the Europe Minister about the matter. I am pleased to say that progress has been made on it, as has been mentioned by other hon. Members.

Securing a sustainable Cyprus settlement remains important internationally and regionally, given the opportunities and security threats, but above all for the people of Cyprus, who stand to gain most from the social, economic and security benefits that a lasting settlement would bring. The UK remains firmly focused on supporting the people of the island to find a solution. Our approach has three elements. First, we maintain strong links in Cyprus with both communities. We strongly support the efforts of President Anastasiades and Mr Akinci to reach a lasting settlement through the UN-led negotiations. As the Foreign Secretary, who will be visiting Cyprus this week, confirmed to the House in June, the UK has made a generous offer to cede nearly half of the territory of the sovereign base areas to Cyprus in the event of a settlement.

European Union Referendum Bill

Lady Hermon Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The straight answer to my right hon. and learned Friend is that amendment 53 does not address the particular dilemma he describes, because it does not grant such an exemption from the overall restrictions in section 125.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I will give way to the hon. Lady, but then I am going to make some progress and not give way again for a time.

[Lady Hermon]

I want to make a suggestion and throw the Minister a lifeline he may wish to grasp. I think we all agree that both sides want to be sure that the referendum is fair, and I hope both sides agree that the Electoral Commission is independent, impartial and professional in organising referendums. New clause 10 is so drafted that the only duty on a Minister introducing regulations to make exemptions from purdah is that the commission is consulted. I suggest that we change “consult” to “seek the approval of” the commission.

[Mr Lidington]

I will come to new clause 10 in a few moments, after I have finished with amendment 53, because the arguments raised by the former are slightly different.

I want to deal with the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker). Amendment 53 reapplies section 125 for the purposes of the referendum, but with limited modifications to enable the Government to transact wider EU business without the legal risks I have described. The list of prohibitions in the amendment directly reproduces some of the things in section 125, such as the prohibition on the Government encouraging people to vote in the referendum—that is, I think, a word-for-word replication of what is in section 125. The key difference applies to section 125(1)(b), which we propose to rephrase by replacing the words that capture publications on any subject “raised by” the referendum campaign with words applying the prohibition to material that

“directly addresses the question of whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union”,

meaning, we believe, that ordinary, ongoing EU business would not be caught.

We have also proposed revisions to subsection (1)(c) that give additional safeguards to those worried about the Government or other public sector bodies misusing the exemption. If subsection (1)(c) were left in its current form, with the words

“puts any arguments for or against any particular answer”

to the question of our membership, it would create a lack of clarity over whether material would be prohibited if it did not argue explicitly for remaining or leaving but did set out a view of the consequences of remaining or leaving. We took the view that there should not be such a loophole. The amendment therefore provides that any material that either deals directly with the referendum question or sets out the consequences of remaining or leaving would be caught, but that a publication on normal EU business that did not touch on those issues or draw lessons about what it meant for the UK’s membership would be permitted.

My hon. Friend asked why we were proposing this alteration in an amendment to the Bill rather than in secondary legislation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McFadden]

That would be the case if we did not have new clause 10; yes, amendment 4 would reinstate the full purdah regime, but new clause 10 allows the Government to come forward with regulations dealing with the points the Minister has made about the need for exceptions to this. In that regard, new clause 10 has a lot in common with Opposition new clause 6.

[Lady Hermon]

I am confused by the right hon. Gentleman’s response to the former leader of the Scottish National party, the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond)—for whom I have enormous regard on these parliamentary occasions—in relation to the devolved Administrations. Opposition new clause 6 states:

“For the purposes of the referendum the Secretary of State may, by regulations, specify materials that he or she intends or expects to publish in the relevant period”.

It clearly does not apply to the Northern Ireland Executive or the Scottish Parliament, and that could not be extended by regulations; it would have to be extended in this Bill, but that is not in this amendment, and I could not possibly vote for it.

[Mr McFadden]

As I have said, there is a great deal of overlap between new clause 6 and new clause 10. As I indicated, our voting position is that we will support using new clause 10 to deal with these issues because there is so much overlap between it and our new clause 6. We will oppose Government amendment 53, and we will support our amendment 4.