Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Michael Fallon]

The business bank is working precisely on supporting crowdfunding with schemes of that kind. I agree that there is good regulation to protect consumers and health and safety, but there is also far too much unnecessary legislation that has been imposed on us by the European Union. The previous Government did absolutely nothing about it, but we are doing something.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

4. How many firms have been prosecuted for non-payment of the national minimum wage since May 2010.

[The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable)]

Since 2010-11, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has identified £11.3 million in arrears of wages for 66,000 workers through civil powers, which are sufficient in the majority of cases. However, for the minority that are persistently non-compliant, criminal investigation is appropriate. Two employers have been prosecuted since 2010, with nine prosecutions in total since 2007.

[Karl Turner]

Does the Secretary of State agree that paying Portuguese seafarers working on P&O Ferries in and out of Hull £3.96 an hour risks the employment of British seafarers? Will he make sure that the national minimum wage enforcement team investigates the maritime sector?

[Vince Cable]

The maritime sector is subject to the national minimum wage if it is operating within the UK jurisdiction. I will happily take up the case that the hon. Gentleman mentions and, indeed, I was aware of accusations of abuse in this sector.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Willetts]

We have been able to help people from deprived areas in Liverpool and across the country through the fact that the combination of the value of the maintenance grant and the maintenance loan is higher now for people from poorer backgrounds applying to university than it ever was before.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

9. What assessment he has made of the effect on postal services of the privatisation of Royal Mail.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

The universal postal service is protected under the Postal Services Act 2011. The service is unaffected by the sale of Royal Mail and can be changed only with the agreement of Parliament.

[Karl Turner]

Does the Minister share my concern that following the fire sale of Royal Mail, private hedge fund shareholders will no longer be prepared to fund the not-for-profit universal service obligation?

[Jo Swinson]

The hon. Gentleman should be aware that that is not an option for Royal Mail, which remains the universal service obligation provider, and it is the duty of Ofcom as regulator to ensure that it complies with that obligation. If any future changes are to be made, it is up to Parliament to agree to it, and I do not see that happening. In fact, we go beyond minimum EU requirements in having a six-day-a-week universal service delivery.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

6. What recent representations he has received on his proposed changes to GCSEs; and if he will make a statement.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

12. What recent representations he has received on his proposed changes to GCSEs; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

We have received almost 5,500 written responses to our consultation, and we are currently reviewing them, along with all the views that we have heard in meetings with interested organisations. We will report on the findings from the consultation once we have had a chance to consider them in full.

[Michael Gove]

I am always grateful for the thought that the hon. Gentleman is toying with the question of whether to call me a genius or a saint. I shall merely say that what we have managed to do so far is put the case for reform after the years when, sadly, the Labour party was in power, and confidence in our examination system received a shock from which the coalition Government are at last rescuing it.

[Karl Turner]

The Secretary of State may not see anything wrong with a 19th-century education system that places no value on practical, vocational or creative training, but employers are very concerned, and so is the CBI. Why is the Secretary of State not as worried as they are?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question, because it gives me another opportunity to remind the House of the changes that we have made to, for example, the teaching of computer science. We replaced an out-of-date information and communications technology curriculum, which had not changed under the last Government, with a fit-for-purpose computer science curriculum that was endorsed by the industry. The hon. Gentleman’s question also gives me an opportunity to point out that, through both the Wolf review of vocational qualifications and the Richard review of apprenticeships, we have managed to unite all those who take vocational education seriously in acclaiming the reforming steps that we have taken.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tim Loughton]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for repeating my words, because they are absolutely right. That is why we issued that document—to send out a very clear message—and why we are revising the guidance, which we are consulting on in the next few weeks. She, like every local authority in the country and youth groups, will have the opportunity to have their say on what their local youth services should offer. That is all about young people having a voice and being able to gauge whether they are being treated seriously within their local authorities. This Government are giving them a voice that was not heard under the previous Labour Government.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

11. What assessment his Department has made of the role of schools in preparing children and young people for entering the workplace.

[The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)]

Ofsted found that more than half the secondary schools inspected in 2010-11 were either outstanding or good in developing workplace and other skills to assist students’ future economic prospects. However, young people should also have access to high-quality and impartial information, advice and guidance. The new national careers service, which will be launched in April, will provide just that.

[Karl Turner]

Does the Minister agree that a diploma in engineering is an important qualification and an important skill for young people? Downgrading that important qualification is, in my view, damaging to foreign manufacturers such as Siemens, which is hopefully about to invest very heavily in offshore wind in my fantastic constituency.

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Gentleman will be delighted to learn—I hope—that I plan to visit Hull on 19 April to meet local employers and interested parties. I am very happy to add him to the list of invitees. We will then take forward just the kind of agenda that he suggests.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

I read my hon. Friend’s article in The Sunday Times this weekend with great interest. She made some very important points. She has championed the importance of high-quality maths teaching in our schools and knows the importance of maths not just for an individual’s ultimate opportunities, but for the economy as a whole. I hope that she will continue to contribute to the national curriculum review of maths.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

21. What estimate he has made of the likely size of the Sure Start children’s centre network by the end of the 2012-13 financial year.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Sarah Teather)]

Local authorities have a duty under section 5A(1) of the Childcare Act 2006 to ensure that there are sufficient children’s centres to meet local need. Many local authorities are reviewing their provision, and they must consult before making any significant changes. The situation changes constantly and it is not possible to predict accurately the position at the end of the 2012-13 financial year. The early intervention grant provides enough funding to retain a network of Sure Start children’s centres.

[Karl Turner]

The Minister recently visited Little Stars children’s centre in my constituency and was impressed by the quality and commitment of staff to the service. Will she commend the Labour council leader for prioritising Sure Start, despite the savage cuts handed to it by the Government, and urgently reconsider the Government’s decision to remove ring-fencing?

[Sarah Teather]

I very much enjoyed my visit to Hull and was extremely impressed by much of the work being done on the ground, particularly the innovative and fascinating work that a number of centres have been doing to link children’s services with health. As I have said already, I commend local authorities that are prioritising children’s services on the ground. That is certainly the message that we have given out clearly to local authorities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Karl Turner Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

The hon. Gentleman knows that the Education Bill is going through the House—I have a copy for him here, just in case he has forgotten its contents. He also knows that on the subject of transition I have written to every local authority in the country—again, I have a copy of the details here—and to schools, letting them know what provision they need to put in place in anticipation of their new duty this September.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

15. How many people he expects to be made redundant as a result of the closure of Connexions services; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)]

The move from Connexions to more effective arrangements for careers guidance will present challenges as new opportunities emerge. Those challenges will, of course, be resolved at local level. It is for local authorities themselves to decide what provision they should make for young people, taking into account their statutory duties and the advice that they have received from me.

[Karl Turner]

The good people of Hull have just kicked out the Liberal Democrat council, and with it the Tory-led policy of pulling funding for Connexions. Will the Minister congratulate the new council leader, Steve Brady, on overturning that vicious Tory policy and looking after young people in the city?

[Mr Hayes]

Not only will I congratulate him, but I would be pleased to meet him with the hon. Gentleman to discuss these issues, such is the ecumenical way in which the Government treat important matters involving young people’s hopes and futures.

Sure Start Children’s Centres

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger]

The grants to children, which are not allocated to schools, are being cut by 35% in Liverpool by the Government. [Interruption.]

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

By the Government, not the council. It is no good Conservative Members shaking their heads.

[Luciana Berger]

Let me get back to my point about back-office costs. How much can be saved in back-office costs from a Sure Start centre that has a part-time co-ordinator and one receptionist? I asked that question because of the heartbreak and concern that this matter is causing parents and grandparents in my constituency, and I want to share the strength of their feelings with the House. I have received many letters and e-mails in recent days, as I am sure other right hon. and hon. Members have. These are the voices of the communities who do not feel that they are “all in this together”, and the voices of parents who feel that they have been singled out for attack.

Wendy told me:

“I was devastated to hear that my local children’s Sure Start centre at Woolton and Childwall is in the pipeline for closure. As a new mum I have found the centre to be extremely supportive and a vital service for the community. The staff have always been brilliant and extremely informative. It is also a great opportunity to meet other parents.”

Kate said:

“Sure Start have responded well to the local needs. They recognised the presence of a number of families with twins locally, and promptly provided specific twin baby classes and a multiple birth support group. It is hard to express how important these groups are. As a family with twins, you are excluded from some other activities (e.g. swimming) and simply struggle to take your babies to anything that is not well set up to cope with twins. And yet, as a mother at home with multiples, your need to get out and stimulate the kids is even greater. Our local Sure Start centre is a haven for us!”

Helen wrote:

“The children’s centres are important in our communities and help to give our children the best possible start in life”;

and Emma wrote:

“the staff at Church and Mossley Hill Sure Start are some of the most skilled and committed I have ever met (and I have more than 10 years’ experience working in education). Church and Mossley Hill Sure Start is an over-subscribed, thriving hub of support for parents and babies in south Liverpool…Church & Mossley Hill Sure Start has already built up strong and lasting links in the short time that it has been running.”

My inbox and letter bag have been swamped by many more messages like those.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Slaughter]

If the hon. Gentleman bears with me, I am sure that he will get the point that I am coming to, but, in essence, because the money is not ring-fenced, my local authority has voluntarily chosen, in the face of what it says is a 13% cut from the Government, to make a 45% cut in the first year. That came about in the following way, which bears some analysis.

[Karl Turner]

It seems that the temptation for Government Members is to say that councils are making decisions for political effect, but that is simply not true. My Lib Dem local authority settled its budget last Thursday, and the cut to Sure Start children’s centres was huge—something like more than 50%. That was certainly not done for political effect, because as a Lib Dem council it was already very concerned about the prospect of annihilation at the May elections.

[Mr Slaughter]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, but I shall now try to make some progress.

On or about 27 December—a time when we are all assiduously reading Government and council documents—my local authority published a report on family support, indicating what funding would be available over the next financial year. The report addressed Sure Start—not directly, but obliquely—first by rubbishing Sure Start provision, saying that although the centres were

“clearly popular with families, and seem likely to have some preventive impact, we have much less clear evidence about the degree of impact this has—including on the ultimate number of children falling into child protection”,

and that

“early studies showed no clear evidence of impact on early school results”.

That might come as a surprise to Members on both sides of the House, given that we heard my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree earlier quoting the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister—certainly before the election—expressing their strong support for Sure Start. However, those rather vague and grudging comments were used as the basis for reducing Sure Start funding by over 50%, with the council report saying:

“However, it is not likely under this scenario that LBHF could continue to directly fund more than 6 Children’s centre teams. In any case we would no longer seek to directly run centres”,

adding that it aimed

“to maintain some provision at most centres, through small amounts of pump-priming funding.”

In the financial section of the report, however, no money whatever was provided for such pump priming; money was provided simply to keep the remaining six centres open.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, by the time report came to committee and was due to be dealt with on 10 January, there was what might be called “a row on the town” in that a large number of people were concerned about it and turned up at the meeting. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) was one of them, so she might want to comment further in her own speech. At that meeting, the authority, faced with great popular disapproval, told people that they had misunderstood the position as no centres were going to be closed, and had misunderstood that the decision had already been taken as consultation was about to be launched. That is what we were told. That would have sounded quite good, save for the fact that the report was then passed in its entirety, including the 50% cut to the budget. We were in the peculiar position of being told one thing when a decision had been taken that was entirely contrary to it. The situation became even more complicated when, later in the same week and rushed out in response to public demand and other factors, a consultation paper was published, with an extra £19,000 slipped in, which turned out to be the pump-priming money—the £19,000 that was going to the Sure Start centres under threat of closure.

Leaving aside the fact that this was shambolic, chaotic and no way to run anything, let alone a local authority, we need to reflect on the reasons for this process of decision making. There were three. The first was connected to public relations. By putting £19,000 into centres that previously had no money at all, the authority could say to the general public and the media, who by this time were taking a strong interest in the issue, that it was not closing the Sure Start centres. Secondly, the consultation was done quite successfully, but it confused the parents and users of those centres, who were told that the centres were not closing but staying open as a result of this £19,000. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, somebody had bothered to look at the regulations, so a scrutiny report was published at the same time, making the observation:

“Local authorities have duties under the Childcare Act 2006 to consult before opening, closing or significantly changing children’s centres, and to secure sufficient provision to meet local need”.

The authority realised that it would be subject to judicial review if the consultation process did not happen. I suspect that it will still be subject to judicial review because consulting after the decision has been made is not the best option.

Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Performance)

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Simon Kirby]

I agree. Our policy is totally in keeping with the 21st century we all live in.

Let me tell the House something about my constituency of Brighton, Kemptown—somewhere that the Centre for Cities has once again singled out as performing strongly post-recession:

“Cities with strong private sector economies and limited public spending cuts, such as Brighton, will be well placed to drive the UK’s economic recovery.”

Just this week, recruitment specialists are reporting a surge in vacancies in Brighton and Hove, with firms returning to pre-recession staff levels. Amex announced last week that it is looking to expand still further in Brighton by relocating many hundreds of well paid and permanent jobs from Madrid.

Developers are still looking to invest in Brighton and Hove, and Brighton and Hove, with its Conservative-run council and its three new non-Labour MPs, is a place to do business. No wonder the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), the Leader of the Opposition, came down recently to see how it is done. Contrast that with the previous Government—the Labour party, which told us, “There is no money left.” We see in the new Government decisive action, both locally and nationally.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

When Labour left office, growth was picking up, unemployment was falling, inflation was low and the deficit came in more than £20 billion lower than forecast. Under this Government, inflation is rising, growth has stalled and unemployment is rising. They really are facts, so will the hon. Gentleman accept them?

[Simon Kirby]

No, I will not accept those facts. I am often struck, looking at those on the Opposition Benches, by how few people have been in business, how few have employed people and how few have filled in a VAT return. I have employed more people than could fit in this Chamber, and I speak from some experience.

Education Maintenance Allowance

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

Today we are debating a scheme introduced by the previous Government that has done some good for poorer students but is also wasteful and inefficient. We need to work out how to maintain and support poorer students while cutting overall costs. Sadly, this is a typical tale of the previous Government’s waste and the current Government having to mop up the mess.

Much of the discussion has been about access, but I firmly believe that raising the school-leaving age to 18 by 2015 will address the issue. I want to concentrate mainly on looking at how best we can give money to students in genuine need. The system currently costs £565 million a year, at a time when, we all accept, the Government are short of money. We cannot pay for everything, so we have to find savings. Of those receiving the allowance, 10% have parents earning more than £25,000 a year, and 47% of those in full-time education are claiming it. Are we saying that all those people need it?

The 18 October 2010 edition of The Observer reported on a Local Government Association report published that month suggesting that 90% of those claiming did not need that benefit. That means that only £56 million gets into the pockets of the poorest in our society, whereas we want to increase discretionary payments to £78 million by 2015.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[David Morris]

No, I am short of time.

Under our proposals, poorer students in my constituency of Morecambe and Lunesdale will be better off, while we will save the taxpayer money. I thank the Secretary of State, who sadly is not here, for the £250,000 he recently put towards Morecambe college.

EMA was a typical Labour scatter-gun approach: some people benefit, but money is given to many who do not need it. Of course students oppose our proposals, but they aim to support the poor and not give money to everyone who wants it. We must put dogma to one side, as the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) said, and sort this mess out where it counts. I believe that together we could do that constructively.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

I thank the Labour party for initiating the debate. It is certainly a subject that warrants a debate. Between the wild statements that have at times been made by Members on both sides of the House, some useful points have come out, and they needed to.

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) for the work he has been doing. I may be privileged to know some of that more than others, but a lot more work still needs to be done, and I hope that he will come to Bradford and talk to us about the implications of the withdrawal of the education maintenance allowance. There is a lot more work to do, but my right hon. Friend has done enough for me for now. However, my continued support for his work is dependent on the success with which he deals with concerns that I and many hon. Members have about the proposals. The Labour motion is tempting, but it fails to recognise that although EMA has played a valuable role in supporting young people from disadvantaged backgrounds, it is very costly.

[Karl Turner]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Ward]

No, I will keep going. With or without a national economic crisis, the operation of EMA is far from perfect. Although they are not in the amendment to the motion, I welcome the comments that have been made on this side of the House about looking at whatever replaces EMA. The Labour motion mentions a rethink of the decision. Had it included a review of EMA, I probably would have supported it. We must look at the scheme and its weaknesses. I thank all those who have campaigned against the withdrawal of EMA, who have undoubtedly made a difference. I did not need convincing that a well thought through and adequately funded replacement was necessary.

Financial Support (Students)

Karl Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Clark. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) on securing the debate—its timing could not have been better.

I will focus my remarks on EMA and, more appropriately, on the Government’s intention to scrap it. EMA is absolutely crucial for my constituents. Removing it will damage the hopes and aspirations of young people across the country, but the effect will be particularly bad in my constituency. The present policy represents yet another damaging U-turn by this Government; it is another Lib Dem let-down and a massive betrayal of the hopes and dreams of young people. It sends a resounding message to 16-year-olds who aspire to improve their lives. It leaves talent unfound and unnurtured, while reinforcing poverty traps and dividing further those who are fortunate from those who are not.

Before I develop those points further, it is important to highlight EMA’s success. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) was right to say that it was piloted in Hackney. That was in 1999, and EMA was launched across England in 2004. Research by the Responsive College Unit found that it encouraged 18,500 young people to participate in further education in the first year it was rolled out nationally. Those young people would not have had that financial support or that incentive to enter further education were it not for EMA. Similar research from the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that young people who receive EMA go on to achieve the qualifications required to succeed in life. The percentage of learners receiving EMA who achieve level 2 qualifications has increased by approximately 6%, with specific improvements in ethnic and minority groups.

The facts are clear: this policy was an absolute success, and we should make no mistake about that. To suggest otherwise is completely misleading. EMA truly encouraged young people to go on to achieve what they deserved and desired. It boosted attainment among those facing the biggest challenges in life and enabled them to succeed.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend add one important element to that—confidence? EMA gave young people confidence.

[Karl Turner]

I absolutely agree. I am sure that that point will be reiterated time and again throughout the debate.

The Minister is well aware of the facts and of EMA’s successes. So, for that matter, are the Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Education. Before the election, the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties were quick to deliver assurances that EMA would be protected. Referring to the then Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls), the Secretary of State, in a Guardian question and answer session on 2 March, stated:

“Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping the EMA. I have never said this. We won’t.”

That was not true.

Speaking of education maintenance allowances, the then Leader of the Opposition, who is now the Prime Minister—he is never one to miss an opportunity—said,

“no we don’t have any plans to get rid of them.”

Seven months is a long time in politics. What message is the coalition sending to young people about politics and our society? Sixteen to 18-year-olds across the country are being told that education is for those who can afford it, while those who cannot, need not apply.

Given EMA’s successes and the help that it has offered thousands of young people, the current proposal raises the question of whether the Government are comfortable punishing the disadvantaged.

[Simon Kirby]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Karl Turner]

Not at the moment.

The message is clear. Young people have felt the brute force of this economic vandalism. This generation of young people have had the cruellest introduction to the world of politics. They have barely dipped their toe in the water, but they have been hit by wave after wave of ignored pledges, broken promises and closed ears. The coalition has defined politics for an entire generation in terms of distrust, and the coalition parties will not easily be forgiven. The scrapping of EMA leaves us in a situation where talent will be stunted due to inadequate means. Just under 5,000 young people in Hull will be locked out of further education and, therefore, higher education, and they will have any aspiration quashed.

As I said at the outset, my constituents are particularly affected. Gary, who lives on the Longhill estate in east Hull, cannot afford to pay for his textbooks, stationery or travel, but his EMA allows him to.

[Simon Kirby]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Karl Turner]

Not at the moment. Many hon. Members are eager to speak, so you will forgive me, Ms Clark, if I do not give way.

Debbie, who lives on Bransholme, does not have the luxury of ambitious parents. She says her parents do not understand the value of further education. She says that they cannot afford to, and will not, pay for her to study, but that EMA does just that. Darren lives on Greatfield estate. His parents are among the lowest 10% of earners in the country, earning just less than £16,000 a year. He needs to pay board, but he cannot afford to. However, his EMA allows him to contribute to the family pot. EMA allows individuals to break through the boundaries and access further education. It puts an end to generation after generation of young people being locked out of further education. It truly enables social mobility.

It is illogical that, on the one hand, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is emphasising the importance of breaking the cycle of welfare dependency, while, on the other, the Education Secretary is removing the support that would enable young people to do better for themselves. If we want families to break free from welfare traps, surely it is important that we instil in our young people a thirst for education, and underline the importance of that. Offering students EMA provides them with an incentive and support to help them along the way. If Gary is without his EMA he will be without his A-levels, and therefore without his physics degree. The domino effect continues. Science and the state will be without that young talent. Can the Government honestly say that they will withdraw their support for Debbie to complete her course, denying her the chance of achieving her true potential? What about Darren, who will no longer be able to complete his NVQ in fashion design? Should he be locked out because he simply cannot afford to do the course without financial support?

I have not even mentioned the unprecedented hike in tuition fees. Even those who are lucky enough to make it through further education will have a mountain to climb on the other side as they face the prospect of £9,000-a-year fees. Let us imagine the situation, in which any of the 16-year-olds whom I have mentioned managed to complete access-to-university courses without support, but then are faced with the prospect of convincing their parents, who are of modest backgrounds, that they are about to embark on a three-year degree course that will cost them £27,00—and no doubt an awful lot more, when accommodation and living are taken into account. I know what my parents would have said to me. I left school at 16 with few qualifications. I ran a business for a while and eventually, when I was financially stable, I went off to do A-levels before completing a law degree. I eventually qualified as a barrister in 2005 at the age of 34. When I was nearing the end of pupillage, I was possibly the most elderly pupil at the Bar; so I know what a struggle it is to get educated.

I have no doubt that without the Labour Government’s lifelong learning agenda I would never have had the academic success and confidence to reach the dizzy heights of membership of the Bar, and of being elected to this place. We should make no mistake. The Government’s policy on further and higher education is not progressive. It is shamefully regressive. It effectively does away with further and higher education for those who cannot afford to pay for it. The Government are more than happy for further and higher education to become the privilege of the few. Those who can afford an education will pay for it and those who cannot simply will not have one. That is the reality of the Government agenda. I hope that hon. Members will forgive me if I appear angry, but the subject makes me extremely annoyed. The Government will not easily be forgiven by those young people, who are locked out of further and higher education.

EMA is important not only to the family and the student; it has a wider social benefit. Why do the Government insist on washing their hands of post-16 education, leaving the next generation unable to get access to the qualifications that they require to improve their lives? We hear a lot of talk from the Government about fairness. Is this fair? Is it productive, or is not it narrow-minded, ideological, regressive and wholly flawed? I know where I stand. I ask the Minister to look again and to think very carefully about the choices that are being made, and about the aspirations of our constituents. I ask him to put the brakes on and allow Gary, Debbie and Darren, my constituents who have bothered and troubled themselves to e-mail me about their stories, the chance to improve their situations for the benefit of us all. I cannot support the Government’s attempts to create a divide in the education system between those well off enough to pay and those less fortunate, who cannot. For those reasons I will actively oppose the Government every step of the way.

[Katy Clark (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind hon. Members that a considerable number still want to speak; the shorter the contributions, the more I can call.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Clark. I congratulate the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) on securing the debate and introducing it in measured terms that addressed the issues—unlike, perhaps, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), who would not take an intervention from the Government side but was happy to repeat the same two points endlessly. I do not think he really took the debate any further forward.

I have concerns about a change from EMA to a college-based system, as, of course, do many students. My constituency has five secondary schools, four of which have sixth forms. That is the model on which much education has been delivered in such market towns. Of course, we also have an excellent and large dispersed Cornwall college group, including Duchy college in my constituency, which I visited on Friday, and several other campuses throughout the peninsula, which deliver a huge range of vocational and academic courses that are vital to the future of the young people concerned.

We must consider the situation we are in. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East was very clear about where he stood and about wanting to condemn and attack the Government, but I did not hear a lot about options for doing anything different. That is what we have to consider about the present situation. I should be quite happy to enter into a debate if we heard exactly what his Government would have done. In the run-up to the election, they talked about the cuts they would have to make if they were re-elected, but of course there is no detail about where those cuts or changes would have come from.

[Karl Turner]

We know where you were on tuition fees.

[Dan Rogerson]

The hon. Gentleman can look at Hansard and see how everyone in the Chamber voted. I think we should stick to the debate that we are having today.

The key question for me is how we are using money that should be targeted at the people who need it most. I have had e-mails from constituents who are very concerned, and I accept that there will be some people whose plans for the future will be affected and who will need to think very carefully about what they can do. I shall return to the issue of transport, which is crucial, particularly in an area such as mine.

I have had e-mails from a constituent in Camelford, whose daughter and son get EMA for their education and feel that it is not enough. There is a transport element to getting to the college, and other costs. They believe that they need greater support to secure that. However, they are also aware of other people in the town—and I accept that this is anecdotal—who they feel do very nicely, go on all sorts of holidays and have a wonderful time, and are still in receipt of EMA. That suggests to me that there are, as happens in all areas, some people who are getting support that would perhaps be better targeted at those who need it most.

The Government’s response to the issue is, understandably, to consider the overall budget; but it is also to think about targeting. There are concerns, in a college group such as Cornwall college group, that some people have come into education in the past few years because support is available. I do not accept the argument of dead-weight, but we must also accept that there are people who get EMA who would have gone into further education at 16.