Women’s State Pension Age: Ombudsman Report

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak today on behalf of the WASPI women. Every right hon. and hon. Member who has spoken in this debate has done so with a heartfelt desire on behalf of their constituents, and I wish to do the same. A lot has been said, but I want to offer a Northern Ireland perspective in the debate. It unites the voices of those in this Chamber when we speak on behalf of all our constituents within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland there are some 77,000 WASPI women—ladies who deserve to have their pension but have been denied it. Tragically, many have passed away. In my Strangford constituency we have approximately 5,000 who should qualify as WASPI women. Although I am the only Northern Ireland MP in the Chamber now, I know that many of my colleagues from other parties have spoken on this issue. I had a well-attended debate on 12 March; it was unfortunate that in that debate Members only had about three minutes. In today’s debate at least Members have had at least 10 or perhaps even 15 minutes, depending on when they came in. I asked a question on the same issue on 25 March in this Chamber and again on 2 May.

This debate is vital, but—and I say this almost as a question—is it necessary? Hon. Members will say, “What do you mean, is it necessary? That’s almost a contradiction.” But it is not. The debate is not necessary: the problem is crystal clear and undisputed, at least by every person who has spoken. That being the case, we should recognise this and grant the compensation in a timely manner. That is what the debate is about. That is what we are asking for, and everyone from all political parties is united on that. We have the ombudsman’s report. Why, then, do we need to debate this issue again today, if the problem and the solution are clear and expected? That is the way I see it.

I congratulate the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), as I often do, on setting the scene; I know this issue has been a passion of hers in this House. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), who will sum up for the SNP at the end of the debate, on his Bill, which I have signed, along with others. The Government could grasp that Bill, push it through and have it all done by July. I also did not know until this debate, when the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) spoke, that he and the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), who is not in his place, had a Bill or a process ready to bring forward. Would it be onerous or unrighteous of me to say that perhaps that is something that could be used as a text to move it forward? Right hon. and hon. Members have brought lots of ideas forward.

I say this with great respect to the Minister, who is an honest man and a gentleman, and who does his job well: the Government are dragging their heels. As we have said on multiple occasions, each day that passes means that another lady has been wronged. My constituents and others are missing out not simply on justice—that is reason enough—but on the quality of life that should have been theirs. Parties across the Chamber have come together to reiterate that, but the power for change—and the reason change is not coming forward—lies with the Government. That is the way I see it.

On the many occasions I have spoken about the WASPI ladies, I have given the example of a constituent of mine who was a school cleaner—everybody’s constituencies had school cleaners like her. That lady cleaned the school toilets until she was 60, with arthritis and pain. She spent most of her time on her knees. It is always good to spend time on your knees, as long as it is in prayer, but that lady spent her time on her knees on a floor with cold tiles, and she ended up with arthritis and pains. That is the issue. She focused on the end date when she could stop putting herself in pain and start enjoying her retirement without having to worry about turning her heating on because she could rely on her pension. That lady never had a sick day in 30 years—boy, what a record! She turned up every day for 30 years to clean the toilets at the school. She deserves credit for that.

We know that lady’s generation well. There is no shame in it, but she felt shame about taking benefits, and she worked hard for the entitlement to a well-earned pension, which she thought she was getting. That pension was about nine months or a year ahead of her, when suddenly it turned out to be six years ahead of her. What—really? There needs to be action. That was done to her without so much as a by your leave or a financial plan. I hear people saying, “Well, they knew about the plan,” but many of my WASPI women did not know at all. I cannot remember which Member said that 60% of people did not know about their financial options. My constituent’s option was to continue working on her knees, scrubbing, with tears in her eyes and in pain, which meant that she had to apply for sick pay.

This Government did that to her—and I say that with respect to the Minister. That is the reason why it happened. The ombudsman said that it was not right to do that to my constituent, and that we should compensate that honourable lady and the 5,000 other WASPI women in my constituency, as well as all those across this great United Kingdom. We are no further forward in giving her that entitlement. Meanwhile, those extra years of hard labour have taken their toll physically and emotionally. I genuinely have no words to say to that lady other than: “I am sorry. I continually ask for compensation for you and the others. I am sorry that the Government got it wrong. And I am sorry that it still is not rectified.”

I do not want to heap coals of fire upon the shoulders or the head of the Minister, but the responsibility for this lies with the Government. My words to the Government are clear and direct, and I have plenty of them, but they can all be summed up in a few words: do the right thing, and do it now. That is my request. The Government know their obligation, understand their duty, and accept the rationale behind that, so all we need now is the action to make this happen.

We have seen how quickly compensation can be sorted, so why are we in this position where we are no further forward and doing the right thing seems not to be a priority? It needs to be a priority—it needs to be a priority today, following this debate. It needs to be a priority before the summer recess, whenever that comes. That is the target date that I am asking the Minister to aim for, because we need to give hope to our constituents and those WASPI women who have resolutely, courageously, and in many cases physically, withstood the test of time.

I believe that compensation should be granted in the form of a lump sum to help pay off any outstanding loans or debts, and there should then be an enhanced payment for a clear and set period of time. We have heard stories today of people who made their plans on the grounds of the pension plan that they had, only to find out that they had been disempowered, and all the plans they had made had to be scrapped. They lost their houses, their jobs and their health. What are we doing to help those people?

[Margaret Greenwood]

The hon. Gentleman is making a sensitive and excellent speech. Does he agree that this is not only about the loss of a pension from the age of 60, the fact that people have not been able to plan and so forth? For many women, their occupational pension will have been tied to the date of their retirement or their state pension—it varies a lot, depending on what the pension scheme is. Some women have lost thousands upon thousands of pounds as a result of this decision.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. The occupational pension is another factor; it is incorporated in the plan that these people have made for their future. It is wonderful how you make a plan for the future and then the Government scupper it on you! All of a sudden, these ladies have found themselves in difficult circumstances, so I believe it is necessary to have a compensation scheme in place to help all of those ladies.

I will conclude with one more comment, ever mindful of the time limit that we all indicated we would keep to. I understand the magnitude of such a scheme, but we were able to get support quickly to households across the UK for cost of living and energy payments—something that I commend the Government on. That can be done on many occasions; we just need the commitment to make it happen. I know that the Government have the ability and the capacity to roll out all these schemes, so along with almost every other colleague in this House today, I sincerely ask that we prioritise finding a compensation formula and rolling it out. These women, our constituents—brave, courageous women—deserve no less, and we must ensure that we give them no less.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the SNP spokesman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jo Churchill]

I join my hon. Friend in that, because any way we can help lift skills across the piece, such as through boot camps and workplace academy programmes, to help people into high-skill, well-paid jobs, particularly in areas where perhaps that has not been the norm, is to be welcomed and congratulated.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Is it really linked? I call Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon]

May I first thank the Minister for what she is going to do for the Sittingbourne and Sheppey constituency as that is absolutely brilliant? However, I would love to see the same thing happening across all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and in particular in Strangford. Could the Minister work with the local colleges, which can provide opportunity and skills? It is better—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I can save the Minister replying. The question is only about filling job vacancies in Sittingbourne and Sheppey, not the rest of the world. Let us move on. That was a good effort but, out of 10, I would give it one.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I call Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I will get it right this time, Mr Speaker.

What discussions has the Minister had with the Department for Communities, back home in the Northern Ireland Executive, in relation to the extreme poverty surges witnessed in the winters of 2022 and 2023?

[Mel Stride]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Northern Ireland Executive are at liberty to make their own arrangements on most of the benefits for which the Department for Work and Pensions is responsible. However, they generally choose to go with our decisions. I assure him that officials work very closely with their counterparts in Northern Ireland to make sure that we take the needs of the Northern Irish people into account when we take those decisions.

Pension Schemes

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 2nd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank and commend the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) for leading today’s debate. I attended his half-hour Westminster Hall debate on this issue and supported him when he outlined his case in the short time he had. He has done exceptionally well today in doing the same thing, but in much more detail.

It is important to discuss pension schemes, and to ensure they are properly understood and regulated. There are still so many people out there who are misinformed, or do not really understand how pensions work or what their purpose is, so I am glad to be able to debate this issue. The Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), referred to auto-enrolment. I want to refer to it, too. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland set out a lot of detail, as did the Chair of the Select Committee and others, referring to a number of companies. Most people will obtain a pension at some stage of their lives and, through employment, will actively pay into it.

One point I would like to make, and which the Chair of the Select Committee referred to, relates to the provision of pensions for our young people and what steps we can take to ensure they understand that provision. This is another issue that I believe should be taught within learning for life and work. It should be in the curriculum and a part of our focus. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland said that he had his first pension at the age of 22. I had my first pension at the age of 18. My mother took me down to John Thompson —he is not here any more—who was the pension man in Ballywalter. I said, “I don’t need one.” He said, “Oh, you do.” And I signed up. Of course, you never say no to your mum. I certainly didn’t and I do not regret that. Over the years, and after taking out other pensions, all of a sudden they are quite valuable and exceptionally good to have. Also when I was an 18-year-old, my mother took me down to the Northern Bank—now Danske Bank —and opened an account for me. She gave me £10 to start the account. Way back in the ’60s, that was quite a lot of money. You could probably have bought a wee car at that time. I am not sure what state the car would have been in, but I think you could have bought one for £10 or thereabouts. The point I am making is that it is important to save and to have a pension.

We ask young people to look to their future and to start to plan, but there is little provision within the education system to teach them about pensions, savings and mortgages, and there should be. I know that that is not the Minister’s direct responsibility, but perhaps he could give some assurance on whether it could become a subject for the curriculum. I have had conversations with my staff on the importance of paying into pensions. My youngest staff member’s response was exactly that. She bought her first house, saving for almost a decade for the deposit and paying thousands of pounds for mortgage advisers, insurance, solicitors fees and lenders fees. Young people are just about surviving to live in the present, but there is now an expectation that they must save in a pension for their futures. The purchase of a house is such a critical factor that a pension often takes second place. What steps can be taken to ease the financial burdens on our young people and enable them to see the benefits of taking advantage of pensions?

I recently asked a parliamentary question on considerations being given to a potential opt-in scheme for young people under the age of 18. There is massive cause for this. Another two girls in my office have been working since the age of 13—part time, obviously, but still working—and so many young people out there are employed from as young as that. Why shouldn’t they reap some sort of benefit from working at that age? I understand the Government are to make a change to the Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 to enable that to happen in the “mid-2020s”. As we quickly approach that, perhaps the Minister could give an update on the matter and where it stands.

My last point on pensions relates to the WASPI women. This is not the subject of today’s debate, and there will be a debate on it in a fortnight’s time. I secured a debate last month in Westminster Hall on the issue. Although it is not the pension issue for today’s debate, the scale of the issue and its popularity highlights the importance of planning pensions. That is the point I want to refer to. The Minister will be aware that compensation is owed, but, given the nature of today’s debate, let me gently remind him that it is possible for lessons to be learnt. In setting the scene, the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland spoke of what had gone wrong and the need to ensure that it would not happen again, and we hope that, as a result of this debate and others, the issue of the WASPI women will never happen again either.

The incentive to save for the future must be there for people of all ages, not just young people but those in their 30s and 40s who voluntarily do not pay into their pensions because they do not think it worth their while, given the current cost of living and the many demands on their purses. It is also worth noting that some employers match employee contributions, while others pay considerably more. The incentive must be there for people to prepare for life after work, and I firmly believe that that should start in the LLW and careers sector of the education system. We should “learn them early”. We should reach young people in the right way and prepare them for the world that is to come, and pensions are clearly a part of that.

Universal Credit: Farmers

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Westminster Hall

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered universal credit and farmers.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mrs Murray.

This morning for breakfast I had oat clusters, and for lunch I had a cheese panini with some salad—it is a good day when I remember to eat. So far today, without even thinking about it, I have had produce from oat and wheat farmers, dairy farmers and a variety of vegetable farmers, and I am suspect everyone here could say something similar if they stopped to fill in a food diary. Farming is integral to our day-to-day lives.

When we are down here in Westminster, farming might seem very far away—there is not a field in sight—but my constituency of North East Fife is rural and has a wide variety of agricultural businesses. Next month, the annual Fife Show will attract farming from across North East Fife and the surrounding areas, and bring that community very visibly together. It is therefore not surprising that I am here today talking about this issue, given the constituency I represent, but it affects even MPs representing urban constituencies: farming is quite literally the lifeblood of our very being. Without farmers, we would not have food. I say that at the start of a debate on universal credit to drive home the very important point that we must not lose sight of the needs of our farmers, and must do everything we can to support them. Surely that is what the Government’s Farm to Fork strategy is all about.

The state of our food supply chains mean that some farmers need benefits to boost their incomes, and that is deeply worrying. That is a debate for another day and another Department. The fact that some need support is why we are here today to ask the Minister and the Department to design a system that works with, and not against, farmers.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Lady always brings subjects to Westminster Hall and the Chamber that are of particular interest to me. I declare an interest: I am a member of the Ulster Farmers’ Union, and we own a farm outside Greyabbey, so I understand the issues and the implications of what she is saying. Does she agree that farmers may have three good months of income—not necessarily profit—followed by nine months of hardship, so the monthly system is not appropriate for their seasonal work? Rather than making farming viable, the Government aid through the universal credit system may put people off and make farming untenable for families. That is incredibly concerning as it affects our food security, which this debate is also about—food security and delivering for the nation.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

The hon. Gentleman always gets straight to the key issues in his interventions. I will talk about a number of the things that he referenced. Indeed, the monthly aspect of universal credit is one of the key challenges.

Let me start with the basic point: the Government are asking the vast majority of farmers to go through the process of transitioning to universal credit from tax credits now, right in the middle of peak farming months. For example, it is the middle of lambing season. Let me be blunt: sheep farmers do not currently have the time to sort through accounts, visit the jobcentre or have interviews by phone. We all recognise that farming is not a 9 to 5 job where appointments can be scheduled. The sheep three fields down having a difficult birth will not be able to hold on just because the jobcentre is due to call. The farmer who cares deeply for their animals and also cannot afford to lose income if things go wrong will not be able to stay in the farmhouse to wait for that call. They will be down in the field with the sheep to keep an eye on things and intervene if need be. Even if there is a phone signal, which is not always guaranteed, a farmer can hardly talk through the viability of his or her business while elbow deep in that sheep.

I appreciate that that sounds slightly comical, but it is deeply frustrating for farmers and incredibly stressful when they are worried about losing their income. It shows a failure within the DWP system to understand how farming works, so I ask the Minister: what thought and consideration was given to farmers when the decision to roll out the transition to universal credit was made? I know the National Farmers Union raised concerns about the transition as early as 2018 in evidence to the Work and Pensions Committee. Did the Government pay any attention to that? Even if they are talking to the NFU, I cannot see the outcome in those policy decisions.

I recently tabled a written question asking for an impact assessment on how the roll-out of universal credit to farmers has been done. The response—I will be honest—did not exactly answer the question, so I will make the assumption that the answer is no. If I am wrong, I am happy to be corrected on that, and I hope the Minister will use her time to set out the findings from that assessment. But the response I received did point me to the latest findings from the “Move to Universal Credit”, in which there was only one paragraph relevant to farmers—an observation that additional checks on self-employed claimants may be a factor in the low take-up of universal credit. Obviously, that is a part of it, but it somewhat understates the issue, and it also conflates all self-employment businesses. Farming is very different to somebody, for example, running a shop, selling handmade products, or a tradesperson such as a joiner. Here we are: I am going to assume that the Minister has heard the warnings from the NFU, has seen correspondence from MPs, has spoken to farmers herself, has had her officials carry out research into the farming industry, and has seen the media coverage on the radio, specialist farming news and print media.

In any case, I will explain why universal credit fails farmers. Universal credit does not account for variable incomes and does not allow for those incomes to be averaged out. The very nature of farming means that farming income varies significantly through the year, or even over multiple years. I want to go back to that sheep farmer who is busy saving their animals and bringing new ones into the world, rather than speaking to a work coach. That lamb will not be ready for sale until much later in the year, meanwhile the sheep and the lamb will require food, shelter, water, shearing and possibly extra hands on the farm to help out in the busy months. An animal farmer might in some cases try their hardest to grow crops to be harvested in each season, but often that is not practical. Not all areas are suitable for all produce, and even if they were, economies of scale mean that it can be more profitable to specialise. That does not mean there is no work that needs to be done until harvest and sale time; just that the work done by farmers does not get paid for many months. Meanwhile, seed, fertiliser and fuel costs are all going up. That is arguably one of the reasons why some farmers need extra support in the first instance.

Disability Benefits

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) for his persistent and thorough questioning of the DWP on matters pertaining to disability benefits. I support him in these debates in Westminster Hall and the main Chamber. This word is often used, but it is good to have a champion on this side of the House. His work has been excellent.

There will not be one engaged Member of the House who does not have an awful story of someone being turned down for help when they are so much in need of it. I have a constituent who is a plasterer. I will not mention his name; I will just tell the story. At 50 years of age, he had many years of work ahead of him. He had never been out of work, because he had done a good job all his life. That was his plan, but he has had a number of strokes and has been in the intensive care unit. He has been told that he will never regain enough strength to work and that he will struggle with daily life. His wife is a care assistant in a special needs school, and she has been able to help him in many ways; he never dreamed that he would need that sort of help.

He has been turned down for the personal independence payment. For the life of me, I cannot understand how someone who needs help or daily care from his wife, mother-in-law and daughter has been given no points in that assessment. The system has clearly let him down. I can see the difference, because I know the guy. I have known him all his life. My staff will assist him in his appeal, of course, but I always thought that the idea of the benefits system was to help those in need; the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) referred to people who need help.

Looking at this issue really depresses me. The recent Supreme Court judgment has shown that assessments have not been carried out in the correct way, meaning that 250,000 cases are to be reopened to ascertain whether the correct assessment criteria were used. I am not boasting, but I fill in benefits forms regularly for people and I know the system very well. I have a staff member who does nothing but look after benefit queries, so we are on the frontline. She is incredibly overworked.

It is clear that the criteria have never followed the spirit of the law. The spirit is to ensure that those who need help with daily life can get it, but the reality is that incredibly ill people are being made to feel like liars, spongers or fakers. They are made to feel that they have no right to help and that the world is judging them. From grown men with cancer who require their wives to catheterise them multiple times during the day to those who are severely affected by lifelong learning difficulties and are forced to have their awards renewed and their routines disrupted with assessments, the system lets people down regularly. It needs to be changed. It needs to understand, with compassion, the issues that our constituents face. Yes, I understand that we need to ensure that those who claim are entitled to the system, but the way in which that is assessed needs to change now.

We say this to the Minister beseechingly and with honesty, on behalf of our constituents. We want to ascertain how quickly these changes can be made so that men like my constituent, who feel worthless and embarrassed to claim only to be told that they are not deserving of help, will actually be assessed on the needs that they have now. It is not about the needs that my constituent had five or 10 years ago, but about the needs of the man he is today—the man who needs care for life. He has worked for 34 years of his life in a physically demanding job. When he needs help, he should have a social welfare system that does the job. It should deliver for him when he has a dire need, with changes to his health and personal life.

This debate is so important and necessary. We need an assessment that takes people’s health conditions into account and that understands with compassion why they need help. It should understand the evidential base from their doctor, medical expert, wife, carer, mother-in-law or daughter. That is all the evidential base we need. I cannot for the life of me understand why it is not taken on board.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I am very happy to look at specific cases. Only recently, I met one of hon. Lady’s colleagues, with members of the blind community and people with a visual impairment, to discuss how we can learn directly from their experiences. My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon made exactly that point.

I have a speech to make, but first I want to respond to some points that Members have raised. On vulnerable people and vulnerable groups who need specific support, will they please look at this morning’s Work and Pensions Committee sitting, at which the Lords Minister and I covered the topic of safeguarding? We have a vulnerable claimant champion; safeguarding concerns are rightly referred to social services.

I am happy to write to my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon on the point about end of life. The point that he made about appointees was covered this morning, in recognition of the work that we need to do to ensure that people have the suitable voice that they need and that there is progress in this area. As we speak, we are growing our visiting officers team to 700 to go out and support people in the way that my hon. Friend described, and we are making sure that we go to the people we need to hear from. On the mandatory reconsideration trial, it is too early for definitive results, but there was a very pertinent reminder for me to be dialled into it.

The Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), asked about audio recording. We have taken an opt-in approach, but I am happy to go away and look at the specific point that he raised.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister talks about compassion. The medical evidence that has been presented is very clear in what it says. May I ask respectfully whether the staff looking at these matters are trained to understand the medical evidence?

[Mims Davies]

We have a new chief medical adviser and 4,000 clinicians in this area, with a statutory duty and an understanding that is very much among the learnings that we have gained. I hope that that reassures the hon. Gentleman, but if there is more to say, I will write to him. Questions have been raised about how the evidence is looked at and how it works; I am asking those questions myself, individually, and am happy to continue to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)]

The question is, That this House has considered personal independence payment and other disability benefits.

[Jim Shannon]

On a point of order, Mrs Latham.

[Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)]

There is not time—there is no time.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered personal independence payment and other disability benefits.

Women’s State Pension Age

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

No, I do not accept that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. The ombudsman’s report has made recommendations based on maladministration. The 1950s women were misled and not notified of their rights. That is a serious issue. Many people have contacted me; one told me that nearly 300,000 women have passed away already. Women continue to pass away each day without seeing a single penny. Let us not forget those who suffer physical and mental disabilities after a lifetime of work and childrearing. Many grandmothers have gone on to care for elderly parents or provide unpaid support so that their daughters and sons can return to work in support of the UK economy. Time is not on the side of the WASPI women. They need restitution, apologies and compensation. Does the Secretary of State agree with my constituent’s suggestion that the Government agree urgently to pay a reasonable lump sum, followed by an increase in their pension payments until the deficit is recouped, thereby making it easier to balance the public purse?

[Mel Stride]

I certainly accept that we need to proceed in a manner that does not delay matters, for the reasons that the hon. Gentleman has given. We owe it to the people to whom he referred to proceed without undue delay, by very carefully considering the report in its entirety, looking very closely at its findings. I am satisfied, as is the chief executive officer of the ombudsman, that the engagement between my Department and the ombudsman was full and complete. We will continue to proceed on that basis, working closely with Parliament in the same spirit that we worked with the ombudsman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jo Churchill]

I thank my hon. Friend—it is seemingly quite a large number on my birthday cards today.

My hon. Friend has been a fantastic champion of his local jobcentre, and has campaigned vigorously to ensure that Darlington is at the forefront of innovation. I will be meeting his team in April. I have been to seven jobcentres since the last DWP questions, and I will make sure that his work coaches are at the top of my list.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister, in her response to the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson), has emphasised what she will do for his local jobcentre. Whatever she will do for Darlington, she will also do for the rest of the United Kingdom, including my constituency of Strangford. Across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, how can we work better with further education colleges to get our young people ready for the jobs that become available?

[Jo Churchill]

I talk regularly to colleagues in the Department for Education, ensuring that those skilled boot camp SWAPs make people job-ready, because they have not only the experience but a guaranteed interview. That is the way we are driving those numbers up.

State Pension Changes: Women

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered compensation for women affected by state pension changes.

I thank each and every Member who has come to speak in the debate, and I am greatly encouraged that they have, as are those from the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign in the audience today, who are here to ask us, as MPs, to speak for them.

This is not an issue that any of us is unaware of. My emails in the last few days have been incredible. People do not understand the unfairness of what has happened, so let me take a moment to put the issue into context and to set the scene—I am conscious of time, Sir Gary, and I gave you a commitment earlier that I would give everyone else a chance to contribute.

The WASPI women are the generation of women born in the 1950s who have been adversely affected by the changes to the state pension age in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They argue that they were not given adequate notice of transitional arrangements to adjust to the increase in their state pension age from 60 to 65 or 66, depending on their date of birth. That is the crux of this debate.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Member for securing the debate and for the great work he is doing. Unfortunately, Sir Gary, I have to leave early, so I will not be making a speech. The hon. Member said that the so-called WASPI women “argue” that they were not properly advised and informed, but the stage 1 report produced by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman actually confirmed that they were not properly advised and informed.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that, and he is absolutely right. I will come to that point and confirm it. The issue is all about fairness and equality, but, with respect to the Minister and the Government, they have fallen down on that.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I too congratulate my hon. Friend and colleague on securing the debate. He is a champion for women on this issue not only in his constituency but across the UK. Does he, like me, feel that last week’s Budget was a complete and total missed opportunity? The Government could have done something for these women if they really cared. They were able to step in and resolve issues to do with the Post Office, so why have they not been able to step in here, show a bit of compassion and demonstrate that they are prepared to solve this issue? Some 260,000 women have died since the campaign started in 2015. That is a disgrace, and the Government should act now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend and colleague is absolutely right, which is why we are all here to make that case.

The WASPI women claim that the issue has caused them financial hardship, emotional distress and health problems. Many have had to work longer than expected, rely on benefits or use their savings to cope with the gap in their income. The hon. Member for Dudley North (Marco Longhi) is a strong supporter of WASPI women, and although he was unable to come today because of a prior engagement, he does support everyone else here.

[Sarah Dyke (Somerton and Frome) (LD)]

I too thank the hon. Member for securing the debate. Some 8,000 WASPI women live in my constituency, and many have been in touch with me. They are at their wits’ end and do not know how they will manage financially—one constituent told me that they have had to sell their home. Does the hon. Member agree that Ministers should accept the clear findings of maladministration in the ombudsman’s stage 1 report and that the Government should commit to meeting the compensation recommendations as soon as the final report is published—if the Government care?

[Jim Shannon]

Absolutely, and we all say hear, hear to that.

The WASPI women also contend that they have been discriminated against on the grounds of sex and age and that they have been disproportionately impacted by the changes, compared with men and younger women. On behalf of those in the audience today, I very much agree with that assertion.

Actions to inform the women are felt to have been inadequate—I am using very gentle language in saying that—and did not go far enough. The changes to the state pension age were primarily enacted through legislative measures such as the Pensions Acts of 1995 and 2011. The Government claim that those changes were publicised through official Government publications in the belief that those were accessible to the public, but the fact is that they were not.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I too commend the hon. Gentleman on securing this really important debate. He puts his finger on the nub of the unfairness here: it was not just one Pensions Act that affected these women; many were subsequently affected by a further Pensions Act in 2011, so they were hit twice by the same injustice. It is all fine and well for the Government to say they do not accept that unfairness, but the reality is that the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has already ruled that there was maladministration in the functioning of the policy. Is it not time that the Government just accepted that and did what is right by these women?

[Sir Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

Order. Just a reminder that interventions should be brief.

[Jim Shannon]

Thank you, Sir Gary. I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Gentleman. Yes, there is maladministration, and I will use that word again shortly.

Many of the women concerned may not have been actively engaged with Government or have had knowledge of or access to Government publications. In that case, how could they have been informed to an extent that would have made a difference? That is the crux of the matter and of the debate, and it is why we are all here. This is about equality for women, and there has been a level of unfairness in the pensions system.

It is important to remember that women born in the 1950s entered a labour market and a society that was different from what young women experience today. They began working in the 1960s, in their teens, in a workforce where women were paid less than men and were expected to leave their jobs when they married or began a family.

[Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate and on his powerful opening speech. I am sure he will agree that it is important that we get on the record from the Minister today that the Department for Work and Pensions accepts the findings in the stage 1 report of maladministration. Most importantly, it must also act swiftly to compensate the women and the families of the women who have passed while waiting for compensation.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. Everybody’s interventions so far have added to the debate and reinforced the issue.

Back when ladies started to work, there were no remunerated childcare schemes and it was not standard practice for ladies to be offered access to work pension schemes.

With all due respect to the Minister, the DWP has fallen down on this matter. The Department admitted in 2009 that direct communication with those affected by increases in the state pension age was limited. In 1995, leaflets explaining the changes were available from the Benefits Agency, but only on request. In other words, if someone wanted to know anything—if they even knew to ask—that is what they should have asked for. The fact is that the DWP has a responsibility.

Some 16 million voluntary letters were issued in the form of automatic pension forecasts projecting state pension entitlements, including to women aged over 50 at the time. Those letters did not include any details of state pension age or mention that it was changing, so those women were not fully notified. That is what this debate is about. When we look back specifically to the years between 1995 and 2000, we are reminded that we lived in a relatively pre-internet world, where information was not so readily available at the click of a button and social media did not exist. In the late 1990s, we had only five TV channels, and 24-hour broadcasting was still a thing of the future.

The DWP survey of 2004 asked working-age adults about awareness of state pension age equalisation. The results showed that, of those who were aware, 47% got their information from TV advertising, 37% were informed by reading a newspaper and only 2%—only 2%—cited the Pension Service as their source of information. The Pension Service had the responsibility, and it failed badly. Some 98% of those who qualified did not even know from the state Pension Service what should have been happening. That is a massive issue, and it has to be addressed. Furthermore, despite the efforts made through television and newspaper advertising, access to what we see now as the most basic avenues of communication was limited for women who were not securely housed or in unstable domestic environments.

WASPI women deserve to be compensated for the injustice they have had to face, and that compensation should be based on the principles of recognition, restitution and reconciliation. We could call them the three Rs—it is almost like going back to school—but here they apply to the WASPI women and pensions.

The first principle of compensation is recognition, and quite clearly there is a lot to do. The Government should acknowledge the harm and suffering caused by the changes to the state pension age, the inadequate communication of those changes and the failure to consult the women concerned for the reasons I have outlined. Recognition is important for restoring the dignity and trust of these women and for validating their experiences and grievances. It is also a precondition of achieving justice and reconciliation, as it shows that the Government are willing to take responsibility and to make amends for their actions. That is what this is about.

To date, there has been resistance to offering a formal apology to the WASPI women, and the Government have argued that the actions that were taken were lawful and reasonable. Let us be quite clear: they were not. That stance has been challenged by the PHSO, which found in 2021 that the Department for Work and Pensions had committed maladministration, as the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) referred to in an intervention.

The PHSO also found that, by failing to act quickly enough to inform the women about the changes to their state pension age, the DWP had not given due regard to the impact of the changes on the women’s lives and offered them no adequate support or guidance. The PHSO recommended that the Government should apologise to the women and pay them compensation for the distress and inconvenience caused by the DWP’s maladministration —I use that word because it is the right word; it describes exactly what happened.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the speech he has made so far. People have been waiting three years since the report he has just outlined. Does he agree that justice delayed is justice denied and that the Government should, as the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) said, compensate them now and use this Budget to deliver that compensation?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Member for that, and he is right: there is a real onus on Government to reach out and help.

The PHSO also found that the DWP had not given due regard to the impact of the changes on women’s lives and had not offered women adequate support or guidance. It recommended that the Government should apologise to the women and pay them compensation for all those things, including the maladministration. The Government should take positive steps following the PHSO’s findings and recommendations and issue that sincere and public apology to the WASPI women. That would be a significant gesture of respect and remorse and a first step towards repairing the relationship between Government and the women we all represent.

The second principle of compensation is restitution. The Government should restore the affected women to the position they would have been in had the changes to the state pension not occurred, or at least mitigate the negative effects of the changes. Restitution is important for compensating the women for the material and non-material losses they have incurred and for ensuring that they can enjoy a decent and dignified retirement. Wow! How much do we all want to see a decent and dignified retirement? Restitution is also a way to correct the imbalance and inequality caused by the changes and to ensure that the women are not penalised for their sex and their age.

The WASPI women will have different views and demands in terms of what constitutes fair and adequate restitution. Some want a bridging pension or a lump sum payment to cover the gap between their expected and actual state pension age. There really has to be something, and we need to see that coming forward. The restitution that each woman should receive may also depend on their individual circumstances, such as their income, health and caring responsibilities.

[John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)]

I join the chorus of congratulations to the hon. Gentleman for organising this debate. Like many here, he will have constituents who are starting to receive draft reports from the ombudsman about the second report, which will trigger the payment of the restitution he just mentioned. Obviously, they are in draft and we cannot comment on them now, but does he agree that if there is a final conclusion of injustice, to go alongside that of maladministration, it is essential that there is a rapid reaction from the Government to deal with that and to respond promptly, with a proper programme of compensation? Does he also agree that this will be incredibly complicated because lots of WASPI women, depending on their age and conditions, will have faced a different level of injustice, and everything has to be adjusted to reflect that?

[Jim Shannon]

I do agree with that. The Minister is obviously taking copious notes, and the civil servants have not had their heads up since the debate started, so I suspect and hope that they will have the answers we need.

The Government must adopt a flexible and tailored approach to restitution, based on the needs and preferences of the WASPI women. They should consult the women and their representatives to design a system of recompense that is fair, transparent and accessible. I call on the Government and the Minister to consider the PHSO’s recommendations when it publicises its final report on the financial remedy for the women in due course. If they do that, we will have taken a step in the right direction. The PHSO has indicated that it will consider the impact of the changes on the women’s standard of living, health and wellbeing, as well as the availability and adequacy of alternative sources of income and support.

The Government should also ensure that the restitution is delivered promptly and efficiently—do both those things—and ensure that the women are given clear and accurate information and guidance on how to claim and receive their compensation. The Government should monitor and evaluate the implementation of the restitution scheme and its outcomes, and adjust the scheme if necessary to ensure its effectiveness and fairness.

The third principle of compensation is reconciliation. It is a word often used in society, but reconciliation is what we want here. That means the Government should foster a positive and constructive relationship with the WASPI women and their representatives, and address the underlying causes and consequences of the changes to the state pension age. Reconciliation is important for healing the wounds and divisions caused by the changes and for building trust and co-operation between the Government and the women. Reconciliation is also a way of preventing similar injustices from happening in the future, which my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) referred to. If we do it right now, it will be in place for the future and will ensure that the pensions system is sustainable and equitable for all.

The Government should engage in a dialogue and partnership with the women and listen to their views and concerns. They should involve the women in the decision-making and policymaking processes related to the pensions system and ensure that their voices and interests are represented and respected. The Government should recognise and celebrate the contribution and achievements of the WASPI women, and support their empowerment and participation in society. They have done so much, and we salute and thank them for that.

The Government should address the broader issues and challenges that affect the pensions system and the ageing population, such as the adequacy and security of pension income, the availability and affordability of social care, the quality and accessibility of health services, the diversity and inclusivity of the labour market, and the promotion and protection of human rights. The Government should adopt a holistic and long-term approach to those issues, and seek the input and collaboration of the WASPI women and various stakeholders, including other pensioners, workers, employers, civil society and the public.

Compensating 3.8 million WASPI women is not only a matter of rectifying past injustices, but a recognition of the hardships they have endured due to the sudden and unexpected changes to their pension entitlements. Importantly, it is a recognition of the place in history held by this wonderful post-war generation of women from all communities across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

I was hesitating before intervening on the hon. Gentleman—

[Jim Shannon]

I have not finished.

[Sir Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

Order. Everyone calm down. This is an intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

I call Jim Shannon to finish off.

[Jim Shannon]

I had not finished; I was giving way to the hon. Gentleman. I am almost there, by the way. I will keep to your timescale, Sir Gary, simply because everyone here deserves to give their input. I told you I would do that and I will do that.

Compensating those 3.8 million women is recognition of the place in history held by that wonderful post-war generation. I say that again because that is why I am here: to speak for those ladies who contact me in my office all the time. Those are the women who have collectively and individually played a pivotal role in shaping and inspiring change in society. We salute those women for what they have done over the years. They have contributed to the workforce and society throughout their lives, and they deserve to retire with dignity and financial security.

The WASPI women were the mothers, nurses, cleaners, dinner ladies, shop workers, teachers, carers, factory and farm workers—the list goes on. That is only a small group of who those people were. They were trailblazers for women in society and role models for subsequent generations of women, so when the time comes in the debate, let us do the right thing by them—it is imperative that we do.

[Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is paying such a beautiful and wonderful tribute to that group of women that I feel I must rise to mention the more than 4,000 WASPI women in my constituency, the 700 who signed a petition in 2016 and waited all these years, and the two who are my sisters, who very much reflect everything he says. Time is toxic—they have waited so very long. Does he agree that we cannot wait any longer? Every year we are losing our WASPI women.

[Jim Shannon]

It is fitting that the last intervention on my contribution was from a hon. Lady who has staff who fall into that category, along with many in the Public Gallery today. For me, and for all of us here, it is a simple thing. Wrongs have to be righted—that is our job as MPs. There is pressure on all of us, on both sides of the Chamber, but there is more pressure on the Minister and the Government. They must deliver what is right. Let us stand by the WASPI women and make sure that they get what they should.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank each and every one of the right hon. and hon. Members present for their contributions. From a quick headcount, some 26 Back Benchers, as well as the shadow Minister and the Minister, have come along to make a contribution. Why did they do that? They did it because there is a wrong to be righted. That is the reason why.

I will make just a couple of quick comments. The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) said that the Government

“could be proactive in finding a remedy.”

That is exactly what we are asking for. Have we seen that this morning? With respect to the Minister, I do not believe that we have just yet.

I encourage the Minister to continue discussions with his Department to ensure that these matters are addressed. We ask for an apology for the WASPI women. We ask for the issue of maladministration to be addressed. That is quite simple when what has happened has been categorised by the Department itself as maladministration. If that has been done, for goodness’ sake get it sorted. I cannot understand why it has not been.

The need for compensation is still outstanding. Are we moving closer to it? We cannot get a time or a date. We really need those in place. Every Member here wants it in place. The delay will have costs. The hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) referred to the 260,000 people who have died. How many more will die while the Government dither about getting the job done?

On behalf of the 3.8 million WASPI women, I suggest to the Minister with respect—I always at least try to be nice to everyone in the Chamber, because that is my nature—that we really do need an answer to our request. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) has put forward a ten-minute rule Bill. Let us do that.

We speak on behalf of all the ladies who are here in the Chamber, and all those who are not here. Those are the people we are fighting for. Minister, I was going to say “Get the finger out,” but I will just say: let’s get it done.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

Inclusive PPE

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

There have been significant developments in both the design and use of personal protective equipment over the last few decades. UK workplaces are undoubtably safer as a result. The Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations 1992, now amended to the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations (Amendment) 2022, were an important step forward. They placed a duty on every employer in Great Britain to ensure that suitable PPE is provided to employees who may be exposed to a risk to their health or safety while at work. Regulation 4(3) states that personal protective equipment shall not be suitable unless:

“(b) it takes account of ergonomic requirements and the state of health of the person or persons who may wear it;

(c) it is capable of fitting the wearer correctly, if necessary, after adjustments within the range for which it is designed”.

However, despite being revised seven times since coming into force, the regulations do not make specific mention of women, who I hardly need to remind the Minister comprise half the population, or to others with protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. That omission continues to have significant, real-world consequences.

The world is finally waking up to the fact that women are not just smaller men, whether that is in the design of crash test dummies or in the creation only three years ago of the first anatomically accurate female 3D physiological model for medical students. PPE needs to be designed with the female anatomy in mind. That also applies to the needs of others who are not catered for by a typical male body pattern.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for raising this issue; I spoke to her about it before the debate. It is so important for everyone to have access to PPE that fits correctly depending on the industry in which they work, including the female construction workers who the hon. Lady has referred to. Back home, I have been contacted by constituents about the provision of PPE for pregnant women who are still working towards the end of their pregnancies. Should not more consideration be given to ensuring that they have correctly fitting PPE, as they are more at risk from hazards and other safety concerns in the workplace? Let us do it right for them.

[Emma Hardy]

I completely agree. That is exactly what the debate is about—ensuring that everyone is safe while at work.

In September last year, the National Association of Women in Construction Yorkshire published a research report on women’s PPE in the construction industry. I pay tribute to its author, Katy Robinson. Not only is she a resident of my area, but she inspired the speech that I am making tonight. She is also the campaign manager of NAWIC Yorkshire, a voluntary role that she undertakes outside work. She told me that most PPE distributors do stock women’s PPE, but the issue sometimes lies with employers, despite such PPE being readily available on the market. Her study found that 59.6% of employers did not provide women-specific PPE, which resulted in women wearing PPE designed for men and led to issues relating to ill-fitting PPE.

Ill-fitting PPE was found to cause a range of health and safety issues, including increased slips, trips and falls, an increased risk of entanglement, a limited range of motion, decreased dexterity from gloves, and impaired vision from safety glasses. Worryingly, 42% of women reported experiences relating to ill-fitting PPE which had had an impact on their careers. Long-term health problems included plantar fasciitis, Morton’s neuroma and tendinitis from poorly-fitting safety boots, and injury from suspension trauma and circulation damage as a result of ill-fitting harnesses.

According to other studies, 40% of women have reported experiencing an injury or incident that they identified as being related to PPE, 32% have had to make alterations or adjustments to PPE to make it fit, 77% have been exposed to dangers because of ill-fitting PPE, and 57% have found that their PPE sometimes or significantly hampered their work.

Every study reported that the majority of PPE is designed for men, and is based on outdated information and measurements. It could be argued that that is due to a historical lack of women in some sectors of industry and that those sectors just need some time to “catch up”, but there are also issues involving ill-fitting PPE in female-dominated industries such as healthcare, where it became a headline issue during the covid-19 pandemic.

Inclusive PPE is defined as personal protective equipment that takes into consideration the user’s protected characteristics, and momentum for change is building. Katy Robinson, who I mentioned earlier, founded the PPE Campaign with the aim of addressing

“the widespread inequalities in PPE provision and design among minority groups across the construction industry and beyond”.

The Chartered Institute of Building has launched a “PPE that fits” campaign to drive awareness of the way in which ill-fitting PPE is affecting health and safety on site while also hampering the industry’s ability to attract and retain a more diverse workforce. The Considerate Constructors Scheme, which helps the construction industry to raise its standards through construction site accreditation, has mandated the requirement of women-specific PPE. SHP is running a campaign called “Protection for everyone” to raise awareness of the issue, and locally, East Riding of Yorkshire Council voted to urge the UK Government to enforce inclusive PPE in industries involving science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Arco, which is based in my constituency and a leading UK provider of health and safety products and PPE, recognises the need for change and fully supports the campaign to improve inclusivity. I understand that this campaigning is indeed leading to change and that an increase in women’s PPE provision has been seen since it began, but workers deserve a guarantee that they will be protected.

The Minister may say that the issues I have highlighted are covered by the regulations, but there is overwhelming evidence that as they stand, the regulations are not effective in ensuring that large numbers of workers are receiving the protection they need. Reference to the Equality Act 2010 can be found in guidance surrounding the regulations, but it is not statutory. Well-fitting PPE should not be seen as best practice; it should be the minimum standard. An increasing number of manufacturers are creating products designed for women, including maternity PPE, and those that do typically sell them at the same cost point as men’s. Unfortunately, some manufacturers still only make men’s PPE, meaning that they can sell them at a cheaper cost point, as there is more demand for it and they make a loss on women’s PPE—hence the assumption that men’s PPE is cheaper than women’s. This gives a competitive advantage to companies that choose to ignore 50% of the population and all others with protected characteristics who suffer from the impact of ill-fitting PPE.

I believe that specific reference to the Equality Act 2010 is a significant omission from the regulations and should be addressed. I acknowledge that the regulations have been regularly revised since they were drafted, and I note that it was rightly seen fit in the Personal Protective Equipment at Work (Amendment) Regulations 2022 to change the pronouns from he/his to they/theirs to be more inclusive, but the regulations did not address the issue that is materially affecting thousands of people’s lives and careers. I urge the Minister to return to them and make the necessary changes.

Child Maintenance Service

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) on his speech. I will comment not only from a Northern Ireland point of view, but from a personal point of view and on behalf of my constituents.

We brought in the Child Maintenance Service to ensure that when a parent—a mother or a father—leaves the family unit, the child is cared for. It is so important. We deal with these cases nearly every week in my office. Unfortunately, they are not always good to hear about, because the contribution—in most cases from the father, but in some cases from the mother—is not always up to scratch.

The Government give parents a small amount of money to help with childcare, but not many people can raise a child on less than £25 a week. Subsequently, it is incumbent on parents to do the bulk of the financial giving. For some parents, child tax credit helps to fill the gap, yet when there is a relationship breakdown, finances are inevitably strained. Instead of just one rent or one mortgage, there are now two. There are two sets of heating bills and two sets of electricity, yet the income has not doubled. I completely understand that it cannot all be done, but there can never, ever be an excuse for a parent not providing for their child.

The CMS was set up to facilitate things when a relationship breakdown means that an agreement cannot be reached. Its role is to ensure that help is there to work out how to pay the bills and provide for the children. That is the theory, and it is all great, but in practice I have parents coming to my office upset because their partner will not meet their obligations. I know of one who has holidays, nights out, a big car and a lavish lifestyle, and he is absolutely suntanned to the eyeballs—this is all detailed on social media! Everybody else seems to know what he is doing, but the CMS seems not to. I find that quite frustrating. What is he paying? He is paying £5 a week in maintenance. How can that be right? The computer will say that people are paying what they are able to pay, but the reality is that they have turned their back not only on their relationship, but on their child and on their obligation. Their life is so expensive. It hits you right between the eyes when you see that.

The most recent statistics that I have found, for Northern Ireland’s separate but very similar system, show that the compliance rate for paying parents on collect and pay remained relatively stable from September 2020 to September 2023. Between 75% and 83% of parents paid some child maintenance; in the quarter ending September 2023, compliance was at 79%. It is interesting that one in five parents are not paying towards their offspring, but to me the telling phrase is “some child maintenance”. That £5 a week example shows a real shortfall. How much is “some”? Is it £5 short? Is it £5 a week? It could mean the difference between a child who can afford to have swimming lessons in school and a child who has to sit on the sidelines and is made different from their peers because one parent has decided, “No, I’m not paying that.” That is absolutely unacceptable.

It is a difference that we need to know about. We cannot accept a reporting system that appears to say that any amount paid is a victory. Try explaining that victory to a struggling single parent whose mum is giving money out of her pension to keep the lights on! That is the reality for the CMS.

There is a mechanism by which those who are not paying can be taken to court. A 2018 review of the Northern Ireland child maintenance reform programme, commissioned by the Department for Communities, found that from the introduction of enforcement charges in 2014 to December 2016, £7,200 had been received in enforcement charges. I suggest that there needs to be a bit more action on that. On collect and pay, the review noted:

“Collection charges were introduced in August 2014. Up to December 2016, £432,100 have been received in collection charges from paying parents with £83,400 received from receiving parents.”

Part of the problem with parents pursuing CMS is that they speak to a different officer every time. How many times have we, as elected representatives, had to explain the whole case again to a different officer? If it is going to be one officer, that is okay, except for one thing—it does not work out either.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The point about case officers not being fully au fait with the issue is an extremely frustrating one that more and more parents are describing. They are experiencing delays on the phone, and then they have to start from scratch to explain their case from A to Z. It is extremely frustrating for all concerned.

[Jim Shannon]

It certainly is, and that is one of the problems. The Minister is a very compassionate and understanding Minister, and hopefully he will come back with the answers that we all seek. I am very keen to hear his thoughts on how we can we ensure better continuity.

Reforms have been happening, thanks to the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie). Like other hon. Members, I want to thank her personally, because it was her determination and commitment that enabled the Department for Work and Pensions to impose tougher sanctions on non-paying parents such as forcing the sale of property and taking away passports and driving licences through a quick and simple administrative process. The Child Support (Enforcement) Act was designed to see families being paid faster, as it gives the DWP the power to use a liability order to reclaim unpaid child maintenance instead of applying to court and waiting for up to 20 weeks. My goodness me! How frustrating to wait that long for something to be done.

I want to keep to my six minutes, Sir Charles, so these will be my last few sentences. The reform is great, but more is needed. I look to the Minister to see what improvements can be made throughout the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I would appreciate hearing the Minister’s thoughts on discussions between the DWP and Northern Ireland to ensure that in a bitter breakdown, the child is not the one ultimately paying the price. That is what this debate is about, and that is what we should try to achieve.

[Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Thank you for your collegiate approach.