BBC Local Radio

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the BBC’s role in promoting locally-based radio reporting.

A few years ago, a previous Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), gave the standard mantra that the BBC constantly uses:

“The BBC should always have the editorial and operational independence to decide how best to serve its audiences”.

I think most people would subscribe to that, which is why I describe it as a mantra. None the less, the Government have a duty to ensure that the BBC acts in the best interests of the licence fee paying public, which is why I am grateful to have been granted the debate. I am also grateful that the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee alluded last week to the subject matter that I raise today, which is the downgrading of my local BBC radio station, BBC Radio Foyle, which serves Londonderry and the north-west.

It may surprise some people—hopefully not too many—that I raise this subject, as I am sometimes described as an arch-critic of the BBC. My view is that when the BBC does well, I wish to acknowledge that, and when it deserves criticism, I am more than content to offer that. I will leave others to judge on that basis whether the description of arch-critic is accurate, given the number of times I have either criticised or praised the BBC. That is a matter for another day.

I was first interviewed on BBC Radio Foyle not long after it opened in 1979, which seems like an awful long time ago. In fact, when I think about it, it is an awful long time ago. There are a number of changes that I wish to see applied to my local radio station, but its downgrading is not one of them. Last week, at the sitting of the DCMS Committee that I have alluded to, the director-general, Tim Davie, was asked about the downgrading of Radio Foyle. He responded:

“The savings plans we have announced affect many different people and teams within BBC NI…This is a painful saving, but we believe we should be investing more in digital and be doing more across the whole of Northern Ireland in terms of developing the production sector and other things.”

Many of us would make the point that local radio is often a lifeline when things are difficult locally, and the past 24 hours are a classic example. At home, we have had exceptionally bad weather—frost and snow—with roads difficult to navigate and schools closing between last night and this afternoon. That all happened in the geographic area of Londonderry, Limavady and Strabane, in the north-west of Northern Ireland, which is right in the middle of BBC Radio Foyle’s catchment area. This morning, the very programme that the BBC is seeking to axe was able to carry information live to listeners in the catchment area who would be affected by road and school closures so that they could take action, either to avoid roads that would be closed or to ensure that their children could move to another location rather than navigate difficult roads to schools that were going to be closed. All in all, the very day that we are discussing the issue is a day that shows the importance of a local radio station. Along with the downgrading of the station and the axing of the very popular breakfast-time programme, on between 7 am and 9 am, the hourly news bulletins are to go, according to Mr Davie.

There is a concern in some sections of the community that the BBC decision is part of an anti-Londonderry bias. I want to make it clear that that is not a view I share. If it was BBC radio in Enniskillen, Portadown, Newry, Newtownards or Ballyclare, my view is that the BBC may well have come to the exact same decision. I believe it is a cost-driven decision, not a bias against a geographic location of Northern Ireland. If it had happened in their area, I would expect local representatives to do exactly what I am doing now and stand up for a local radio station in their community.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. He has been an advocate for the BBC. Perhaps he is not always in favour of it, but today he is speaking very much in its favour. As my colleague is aware, the promotion of Ulster Scots is a passion of mine. Although I do have many an issue with the BBC and its so-called impartiality, I have been pleased by the time given on local radio to Ulster Scots and Irish music celebration. Does my hon. Friend agree that the removal of those avenues of access leaves that essential cultural programming homeless and ensures that the BBC retains the title of being a mouthpiece for a politically motivated agenda, rather than inspiring an uplifting programme?

[Mr Campbell]

My hon. Friend is indeed right. I hope the Minister will be able to help with seeking meetings with the BBC to try and ensure that those types of programmes are reflected on a local basis.

The issue is that local radio stations very often give a voice to local people. If it was left to a more centralised BBC—in England a London-centric approach, or in Scotland a Glasgow/Edinburgh-centric approach—we would find that the further afield areas in the geographic location are not covered. That is the fear that there is in Northern Ireland about this decision: that there will be a centralisation of all reporters and researchers in the Belfast area and at Broadcasting House in the centre of Belfast.

What about when events happen 40, 50 or 80 miles beyond the confines of Broadcasting House? Remember, Northern Ireland is quite a small place, and as I have discovered—I may well discover again when I go back home—the Glenshane pass is a very impassable road whenever the weather is bad. That may well be a reason, or perhaps an excuse, for not sending a reporter over the Glenshane pass to locate a school, hospital or some other story when another one is more easily accessible five miles down the road.

Channel 4

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michelle Donelan]

Obviously, the exact location of staff is a decision for Channel 4, but I know that several opportunities spring from making sure that Channel 4 is sustainable, especially in the independent production sector. I am sure that Doncaster can lead the way in that area.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I very much welcome the Secretary of State’s statement, on which I think we are all very much in agreement. It was announced last year that Channel 4 had a new partnership with Northern Ireland Screen in a bid to grow the production sector in Northern Ireland. In addition, there are two Channel 4 higher-education partnerships in Northern Ireland—in Belfast and Newry. What discussions has the Secretary of State undertaken with Channel 4 to ensure that Northern Ireland is still a crucial part of TV production in the UK, whether or not Channel 4 is privatised?

[Michelle Donelan]

In the conversations and work that I have undertaken with Channel 4, the sentiment has been very much about the importance of the UK in general—including Northern Ireland—not just England. I am sure that Channel 4 would be more than happy to meet the hon. Member to discuss that in detail.

Online Safety Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Scully]

Ofcom will be working with the platforms over the next few months—in the lead-up to the commencement of the Bill and afterwards—to ensure that the provisions are operational, so that we get them up and running as soon as practicably possible. My right hon. Friend is right to raise the point.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland we face the specific issue of the glorification of terrorism. Glorifying terrorism encourages terrorism. Is it possible that the Bill will stop that type of glorification, and therefore stop the terrorism that comes off the back of it?

[Paul Scully]

I will try to cover the hon. Member’s comments a little bit later, if I may, when I talk about some of the changes coming up later in the process.

Moving away from CSEA, I am pleased to say that new clause 53 fulfils a commitment given by my predecessor in Committee to bring forward reforms to address epilepsy trolling. It creates the two specific offences of sending and showing flashing images to an individual with epilepsy with the intention of causing them harm. Those offences will apply in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, providing people with epilepsy with specific protection from this appalling abuse. I would like to place on record our thanks to the Epilepsy Society for working with the Ministry of Justice to develop the new clause.

The offence of sending flashing images captures situations in which an individual sends a communication in a scatter-gun manner—for example, by sharing a flashing image on social media—and the more targeted sending of flashing images to a person who the sender knows or suspects is a person with epilepsy. It can be committed by a person who forwards or shares such an electronic communication as well as by the person sending it. The separate offence of showing flashing images will apply if a person shows flashing images to someone they know or suspect to have epilepsy by means of an electronic communications device—for example, on a mobile phone or a TV screen.

The Government have listened to parliamentarians and stakeholders about the impact and consequences of this reprehensible behaviour, and my thanks go to my hon. Friends the Members for Watford (Dean Russell), for Stourbridge (Suzanne Webb), for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) and for Ipswich (Tom Hunt) for their work and campaigning. [Interruption.] Indeed, and the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater), who I am sure will be speaking on this later.

New clause 53 creates offences that are legally robust and enforceable so that those seeking to cause harm to people with epilepsy will face appropriate criminal sanctions. I hope that will reassure the House that the deeply pernicious activity of epilepsy trolling will be punishable by law.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Scully]

Thank you, Mr Speaker; I will try to keep my remarks very much in scope.

The harmful communications offence in clause 151 was a reform to communication offences proposed in the Bill. Since the Bill has been made public, parliamentarians and stakeholders have expressed concern that the threshold that would trigger prosecution for the offence of causing serious distress could bring robust but legitimate conversation into the illegal space. In the light of that concern, we have decided not to take forward the harmful communications offence for now. That will give the Government an opportunity to consider further how the criminal law can best protect individuals from harmful communications, and ensure that protections for free speech are robust.

[Jim Shannon]

This is about the protection of young people, and we are all here for the same reason, including the Minister. We welcome the changes that he is putting forward, but the Royal College of Psychiatrists has expressed a real concern about the mental health of children, and particularly about how screen time affects them. NHS Digital has referred to one in eight 11 to 16-year-olds being bullied. I am not sure whether we see in the Bill an opportunity to protect them, so perhaps the Minister can tell me the right way to do that.

[Paul Scully]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the wider use of screens and screen time, and that is why Ofcom’s media literacy programme, and DCMS’s media literacy strategy—

--- Later in debate ---

My third point is that I welcome the measures to protect children from sexual abuse online and join my voice with all those who have thanked the Internet Watch Foundation. I have been honoured to be a champion of the foundation for over a decade. The work it does is so important and so brave. The Everyone’s Invited movement exposed the epidemic of sexual violence being suffered by young women and girls in our schools. As Children’s Minister at the time, I listened to their campaigners and learned from them how online pornography normalises sexual violence. There must be measures to prevent children from accessing all online porn. I was worried that Barnardo’s contacted me recently saying that more needs to be done to address the content that sexualises children in pornography. I hope the Minister will work closely with all children’s charities, including the wonderful Children’s Commissioner, as the Bill goes through the rest of its stages.

[Jim Shannon]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. I thank Members who have spoken thus far for their comments. I commend the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) for what she referred to in relation to eating disorders. At this time, we are very aware of that pertinent issue: the impact that social media has—the social pressure and the peer pressure—on those who feel they are too fat when they are not, or that they are carrying weight when they are not. That is part of what the Bill tries to address. I thank the Minister for his very constructive comments—he is always constructive—and for laying out where we are. Some of us perhaps have concerns that the Bill does not go far enough. I know I am one of them and maybe Minister, you might be of the same mind yourself—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister might be of the same mind himself.

Through speaking in these debates, my office has seen an increase in correspondence from parents who are thankful that these difficult issues are being talked about. The world is changing and progressing, and if we are going to live in a world where we want to protect our children and our grandchildren—I have six grandchildren —and all other grandchildren who are involved in social media, the least we can do is make sure they are safe.

I commend the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Kim Leadbeater) and others, including the hon. Member for Watford (Dean Russell), who have spoken about Zach’s law. We are all greatly impressed that we have that in the Bill through constructive lobbying. New clause 28, which the hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) referred to, relates to advocacy for young people. That is an interesting idea, but I feel that advocacy should be for the parents first and not necessarily young people.

Ahead of the debate, I was in contact with the Royal College of Psychiatrists. It published a report entitled “Technology use and the mental health of children and young people”—new clause 16 is related to that—which was an overview of research into the use of screen time and social media by children and young teenagers. It has been concluded that excessive use of phones and social media by a young person is detrimental to their development and mental health—as we all know and as Members have spoken about—and furthermore that online abuse and bullying has become more prevalent because of that. The right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) referred to those who are susceptible to online harm. We meet them every day, and parents tell me that our concerns are real.

A recent report by NHS Digital found that one in eight 11 to 16-year-olds reported that they had been bullied online. When parents contact me, they say that bulling online is a key issue for them, and the statistics come from those who choose to be honest and talk about it. Although the Government’s role is to create a Bill that enables protection for our children, there is also an incredible role for schools, which can address bullying. My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) and I talked about some of the young people we know at school who have been bullied online. Schools have stepped in and stopped that, encouraging and protecting children, and they can play that role as well.

We have all read of the story of Molly Russell, who was only 14 years old when she took her life. Nobody in this House or outside it could not have been moved by her story. Her father stated that he strongly believed that the images, videos and information that she was able to access through Instagram played a crucial part in her life being cut short. The Bill must complete its passage and focus on strengthening protections online for children. Ultimately, the responsibility is on large social media companies to ensure that harmful information is removed, but the Bill puts the onus on us to hold social media firms to account and to ensure that they do so.

Harmful and dangerous content for children comes in many forms—namely, online abuse and exposure to self-harm and suicidal images. In addition, any inappropriate or sexual content has the potential to put children and young people at severe risk. The Bill is set to put provisions in place to protect victims in the sharing of nude or intimate photos. That is increasingly important for young people, who are potentially being groomed online and do not understand the full extent of what they are doing and the risks that come with that. Amendments have been tabled to ensure that, should such cases of photo sharing go to court, provisions are in place to ensure complete anonymity for the victims—for example, through video links in court, and so on.

I commend the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller), who is not in her place, for her hard work in bringing forward new clause 48. Northern Ireland, along with England and Wales, will benefit from new clause 53, and I welcome the ability to hand down sentences of between six months and potentially five years.

Almost a quarter of girls who have taken a naked image have had their image sent to someone else online without their permission. Girls face very distinct and increased risks on social media, with more than four in five online grooming crimes targeting girls, and 97% of child abuse material featuring the sexual abuse of girls—wow, we really need to do something to protect our children and to give parents hope. There needs to be increased emphasis and focus on making children’s use of the internet safer by design. Once established, all platforms and services need to have the capacity and capability to respond to emerging patterns of sexual abuse, which often stem from photo sharing.

The Minister referred to terrorism and how terrorism can be promoted online. I intervened on him to mention the glorification of IRA terrorism and how that encourages further acts of terrorism and people who are susceptible to be involved. I am quite encouraged by the Minister’s response, and I think that we need to take a significant step. Some in Northern Ireland, for instance, try to rewrite history and use the glorification of terrorism for that purpose. We would like to see strengthening of measures to ensure that those involved in those acts across Northern Ireland are controlled.

In conclusion, there are many aspects of the Bill that I can speak in support of in relation to the benefits of securing digital protections for those on social media. This is, of course, about protecting not just children, but all of us from the dangers of social media. I have chosen to speak on these issues as they are often raised by constituents. There are serious matters regarding the glorification and encouragement of self-harm that the Bill needs to address. We have heard stories tonight that are difficult to listen to, because they are true stories from people we know, and we have heard horror stories about intimate photo sharing online. I hope that action on those issues, along with the many others that the Government are addressing, will be embedded in the Bill with the intent to finally ensure that we have regulations and protection for all people, especially our children—I think of my children and grandchildren, and like everybody else, my constituents.

[Dean Russell]

I welcome the Minister to his place; I know that he will be excellent in this role, and it is incredible that he is so across the detail in such a short time.

I will primarily talk about new clause 53—that may not be that surprising, given how often it has been spoken about today—which is, ultimately, about Zach’s law. Zach is a truly heroic figure, as has been said. He is a young child with cerebral palsy, autism and epilepsy who was cruelly trolled by sick individuals who sent flashing images purposely to cause seizures and cause him damage. That was not unique to Zach, sadly; it happened to many people across the internet and social media. When somebody announced that they were looking for support, having been diagnosed with epilepsy, others would purposely identify that and target the person with flashing images to trigger seizures. That is absolutely despicable.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Suzanne Webb) has been my partner in crime—or in stopping the crime—over the past two years, and this has been a passion for us. Somebody said to me recently that we should perhaps do our victory lap in the Chamber today for the work that has been done to change the law, but Zach is the person who will get to go around and do that, as he did when he raised funds after he was first cruelly trolled.

My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) also deserves an awful lot of praise. My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge and I worked with him on the Joint Committee on the draft Online Safety Bill this time last year. It was incredible to work with Members of both Houses to look at how we can make the Bill better. I am pleased about the response to so many measures that we put forward, including the fact that we felt that the phrase “legal but harmful” created too many grey areas that would not catch the people who were doing these awful—what I often consider to be—crimes online to cause harm.

I want to highlight some of what has been done over the past two years to get Zach’s law to this point. If I ever write a memoir, I am sure that my diaries will not be as controversial as some in the bookshops today, but I would like to dedicate a chapter to Zach’s law, because it has shown the power of one individual, Zach, to change things through the democratic process in this House, to change the law for the entire country and to protect people who are vulnerable.

Not only was Zach’s case raised in the Joint Committee’s discussions, but afterwards my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge and I managed to get all the tech companies together on Zoom—most people will probably not be aware of this—to look at making technical changes to stop flashing images being sent to people. There were lots of warm words: lots of effort was supposedly put in so that we would not need a law to stop flashing images. We had Giphy, Facebook, Google, Twitter—all these billion-pound platforms that can do anything they want, yet they could not stop flashing images being sent to vulnerable people. I am sorry, but that is not the work of people who really want to make a difference. That is people who want to put profit over pain—people who want to ensure that they look after themselves before they look after the most vulnerable.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

Again, I commend my hon. Friend for the interest he shows in his local churches. He is absolutely right that these types of church event often attract families and children who then become regular attenders. I thank and commend Father Peter March at St Luke’s, Torquay and Rev. Neil Knox at Paignton parish church for everything they do. It is important that they both know their work is noticed and appreciated.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

For the record to be factually correct, we should recognise that Christianity is the largest religious group in the United Kingdom, although it may not be the majority. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that children are taught the value of the Christmas message and the lesson of thanksgiving at the family events to which he refers?

[Andrew Selous]

Yes, I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. This is an important part of our cultural heritage, and the Church will continue to do that work.

BBC Local Radio: Proposed Reduction in Provision

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the voice of Ulster, Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Minister for her response to questions today. Impartiality is critical. BBC services in Northern Ireland are somewhat limited, but some programming—outside the oft-biased news pieces—is used to promote cultural events such as a Burns night supper or an Irish evening. Can the Minister confirm that the proposed reduction will include a focus on cutting the cost of some of the overpaid staff and rekindling local cultural programmes that are enjoyable and very informative?

[Julia Lopez]

I know that the hon. Gentleman feels strongly about issues of impartiality in the BBC, and the former Secretary of State extracted several commitments from it, with a 10-point plan to take that forward. As other Members have, he highlights the issue of salary disparity and whether the BBC is putting money in the right places. Those are all questions that need to be answered.

Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister very much for her presentation. In relation to personal data—my constituents contact me about it all the time, and probably hers do as well—can we be assured that, through this Bill, personal data will not be available to people who do not have the right to access it?

[Julia Lopez]

I think that is probably for other legislation, but if the hon. Member would like to discuss further with me, perhaps in relation to the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, I would be very happy to do so.

Turning back to Lords amendment 16, I have to emphasise that it is not a blanket national security exemption. It is a very specific power that will be deployed only rarely, on a case-by-case basis and only when all other routes to a mutually consensual solution have been exhausted.

Finally, turning to the last amendment in the group, I hope the House will disagree with Lords amendment 17. The amendment adds a new clause to the Bill requiring the Secretary of State to commission an independent review of the effect of the electronic communications code and of the Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Act 2021.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

My first of the season.

[Jim Shannon]

I just want to make a couple of quick comments on Lords amendment 17—I can confirm to the right hon. Member for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne) that that is exactly what I am going to speak to—and on telecommunications infrastructure, which was referred to by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock).

Many landowners back home in my constituency have put in a telecommunications mast, which is an integral part of the infrastructure. They find that their rental contracts have changed from what was potentially an income over a 10-year period to an income that has dropped down to about £200 or £300. The value for the landowners of having that infrastructure on their land is no longer a financial equation to their advantage.

If the telecommunication giants, or whatever they may be, try to retract and change the agreement with the landowners, do the landowners have any rights? Can they put an end to the infrastructure that is on the land? Can they seek recompense from the telecommunication companies, and can telecommunication companies proceed without the consent of the landowners? It is important for my constituents back home, who are faced with these predicaments, to get answers on such matters. I seek guidance from the Minister and hope that she can give me those answers.

Rugby League World Cup 2022

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Westminster Hall

[Judith Cummins]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I hope that he and his dad very much enjoy the match at the weekend. I absolutely agree that rugby league is just the best game in the world. Anything that does it good in terms of growth in the community is worth celebrating. I hope he has a great time at the weekend.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. Her enthusiasm for the sport is self-evident. Does she agree that the focus on team sports in the media and on TV can be the impetus that young men and women need to join a team that builds character and self-esteem, creates friendships, and brings people out of social isolation to social interaction? The promotion of that can only be a good thing for the mental health of people of all ages who could be involved in the riveting game of rugby. I have to say that I am a rugby union man rather than a rugby league man, but that does not make me less of a supporter.

[Judith Cummins]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. I married a rugby union player, so I am saying nothing. It is a totally inclusive sport. It is great to celebrate sport full stop, but it is especially great to celebrate the rugby league world cup being held here. It is fantastic because it is so inclusive. We also have a very interesting mental health programme, which I will cover later in my speech.

We have 20 nations competing in the tournament, from Australia to Wales, Canada to the Cook Islands, Fiji to France and Scotland to Samoa—and Greece and Jamaica have made their debuts in the tournament. Every second of every minute of every match will be streamed live on the BBC, which has its own unique heritage with rugby league. Most games will be carried on either BBC 1 or BBC 2.

At its heart, rugby league is about people and communities. Week in, week out, local communities come together to support their clubs, their local kids’ teams and young players, giving up their time, money and energy, and sometimes even their blood, sweat and tears. The late Colin Welland said:

“Rugby league provides our cultural adrenalin. It’s a physical manifestation of our rules of life, comradeship, honest endeavour, and a staunch, often ponderous allegiance to fair play”—

very much like this place. Strong and insightful words indeed. The sport of rugby league has that power and potential. The tournaments are competitions at the very pinnacle of the sport, and they are spectacular, but the event is so much more; it is laying the foundations for the future of the sport, and for communities, regeneration and levelling up, through its social impact agenda and its legacy.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary rugby league group, I am incredibly proud that the world cup organisers and the Rugby Football League have placed that legacy at the heart of their plans before and after the event. Their trailblazing social impact programme has generated £26 million of investment in equipment and facilities, volunteering, mental fitness, education, culture, and an international development programme. That investment in facilities has helped transform clubs into hubs for their communities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michelle Donelan]

I know that my right hon. Friend is passionate about this Bill and has played a leading role in helping to shape it to this point. I agree that unless social media platforms manage to assess the age of their users, they will fall foul of the Bill. Let us face it: for too long social media companies have got away scot-free. That will end with this Bill, because we will put in place protections for children that will be even stronger.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for her determination to change things for the better, which is what we all want. In four out of five cases of online grooming the victims are girls. Recent studies have shown that to be factual. So what discussions has she had with the Department for Education about online awareness in schools? It is very important that this starts there, because if we start it there, we can stop these things later on.

[Michelle Donelan]

My ministerial team and I, as well as the Department, work closely with the Department for Education. Media literacy is of course essential, and the Online Safety Bill will strengthen Ofcom’s media literacy functions. I look forward to further discussions about this with that Department.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Attorney General]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and he is right. The Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group was launched on 25 May by the EU, the US and the UK to ensure efficient co-ordination of respective efforts. It is a very complicated area, but we want to support accountability efforts on the ground. My colleague in the other place, Lord Ahmad, has already announced £2.5 million of UK support for that initiative and for elements of that organisation, including the deployment of mobile justice teams, and training for judges is already under way.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is obviously important that all the evidence the Ukrainians are gathering to seek out those who have carried out crimes is collated quickly. Is there any help that our Government can give the Ukrainians to do that? It is so important that those people are held accountable before the courts sooner rather than later. What can be done to expedite the process?

[The Attorney General]

Justice delayed is justice denied, and that is as accurate today as it ever was. We have to move at pace, while getting it right, and collating the evidence is important. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that we are doing everything we can to support the Ukrainians in every conceivable way, including in this area.

Listed Buildings Protection

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered listed buildings protection.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I thank the Minister for his time today. He is becoming the Swiss Army knife of the Government—a multi-purpose Minister. Whenever Blackpool comes across the political horizon, I see the Minister. I have wanted for 12 years to have a Minister for Blackpool and I think I have now got one—and a very good one, at that.

I am here to talk mainly about the listing of modern buildings. I should declare an interest as a member of the Twentieth Century Society for getting on for 23 years. A couple of weekends ago, it was a true delight to take the Twentieth Century Society on a coach trip around Blackpool and Fleetwood. I was pleased to see their enthusiasm for the buildings they saw. I got to see things that I had not seen before, and to appreciate parts of our built environment that I had started to take for granted, as someone who lives in the area.

I am also pleased to be able to praise the Government; I do not always get the chance these days to do that. Just this week, we saw the listing of Quinlan Terry’s Brentwood cathedral. The platinum jubilee saw the listing of a number of buildings, from the Harrogate sun pavilion to the motorway markers on the M62 at the Lancashire-Yorkshire border. Obviously, the one on the Lancashire side is far superior to the one on the Yorkshire side. In the past couple of years, we have seen real efforts in Blackpool, listing our middle and lower walk colonnades by the Metropole hotel, as well as our excellent promenade shelters that hotel guests enjoy along the north shore. I can also praise the Government for the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill and all that contains, but I do not want to take part of the time for the Minister’s reply to me by detailing all that that includes.

As ever, Back Benchers like to point out what is not in a Bill. The Joint Committee of the National Amenity Societies, a group of the likes of the Twentieth Century Society, the Victorian Society and the Georgian Group, has made the point that there is often uncertainty among local planning authorities about the occasions when they are required to notify national amenity societies of applications for listed building consent. The Bill would be an opportunity to provide a reminder and clarification, and have the potential to offer the introduction of a more practical recourse to rectification than judicial review, when a decision has been issued without notification. I urge the Government to look at that.

There are more systemic issues that see the architecture of the past 120 years not getting the same protection, which it deserves, as older buildings in this country. In particular, that applies to interim protection. There is little or no protection for a building in England while a process of listing assessment is carried out. Indeed, the knowledge that a listing might be imminent sometimes encourages an owner who hopes to redevelop the site to rush deliberately to damage or demolish the building, specifically to prevent listing.

Setting up interim listing for England was to have been one of the most significant improvements delivered by the proposed Heritage Protection Bill that the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport published in 2008. Sadly, that Bill never became an Act, and we can blame the Labour party for that, like so much in life, mainly due to lack of parliamentary time. Ever since, there has been a desire to plug that obvious gap. That is another potential addition to the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill that I urge the Minister to consider.

We also see local authorities rolling out programmes of wider work enhancing the public realm. They forget that assets are sometimes listed. They do the analysis necessary for listed building consent and conclude that there is a wider public benefit that outweighs the loss of architectural significance, but that does more damage than is necessary to achieve the same public benefit. I recognise that many of my concerns, perhaps inevitably, are resource-related and right now is perhaps not the time to ask for more money—is it ever the right time to ask for more money —in this era of fiscal rectitude, which I hope will continue.

Local authorities’ constrained resources can mean long waits for assessment of potential listings, which leads to very strict triaging of requests to eliminate all but the most urgent applications. That means that developers or potential building purchasers develop proposals, only to be frustrated by last-minute listing decisions. I point to Government policies on converting office blocks and other buildings in town centres into accommodation and housing. That can often hit a brick wall when people discover that that very building is listed nationally or locally.

Listing intervention for modern homes on single plots at risk of demolition is a particular problem. A “for sale” sign is not enough to require intervention, and potential purchasers need to be able to make informed choices about their purchase before they buy. The key problem here is how Historic England defines risk. It does not view risk merely in the case of a property being sold. Waiting for “threat”, as it phrases it, is far too late in the planning process for developer and local authority certainty, as Historic England is very cautious when wanting evidence of threat. Developer purchase is not a in itself a threat in its book.

We need to look to more strategic levels than just building by building. There is a debate to be had about the appropriateness of the 30-year rule—the point at which buildings are automatically considered for protection. Historic England guidance states that buildings

“are not normally considered to be of special architectural or historic interest because they have yet to stand the test of time.”

But technology and architectural fashion are moving so fast now that I do not think that rule still applies. We have seen a branch of Sainsbury’s in Greenwich demolished after only 17 years—demolished for a blue IKEA box—despite being shortlisted for a Stirling prize and being at the forefront of environmentally-friendly architecture. I would love to see Historic England revive its post-war steering group to look at post-1992 national lottery buildings and millennium-era buildings, of which we have a profusion. That was done in the Netherlands very successfully with its post-war reconstruction built environment. We can learn a lot from that.

As I have said, the cycle of architectural styles is accelerating, and that makes the 30-year rule less relevant. We saw post-modernism flourish in the early ’80s. Some of those buildings have been listed because they are exceptional. I think of John Outram’s Temple of Storms on the Isle of Dogs—a pumping station with a fantastic neo-Egyptian edifice.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman is right. I know that back home our historic buildings, whether listed locally or in our case provincially, are very important, but the issue for the developer or the owner of the building that is being listed is mostly one of finance. Does he feel that perhaps the financial assistance available through the Minister’s Department might enable those buildings to retain their historic importance?

[Paul Maynard]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Nothing would please me more than a pot of money to help save 20th-century buildings, but I fear that might not be forthcoming. My favourite building in Northern Ireland is Mussenden Temple. The biggest fear there is its collapsing into the sea, but that is not 20th century, so perhaps it lies outside this debate. However, he makes a perfectly fair point.

Portcullis House is a very good example. It is not listed, despite efforts to do so, because it is not under threat. However, there has been a gradual diminution of the original features. The central pool was meant to cool it—we can see how that is working today. Also, the benches on the sides are now crumbling at the corners. It needs a programme of repair, but because those original details have been altered, it will be less likely to be listed when the time comes. And I have not mentioned the row over Richmond House and the relocation of the House of Commons. We need a rolling programme of automatic assessment of a watch list drawn up by amenity societies, perhaps based upon Stirling prize nominees or another range of sources, or maybe even the self-nomination system in Australia for spot listing.

Historic England has done a number of good things, thematic listing being one of them, but not in insufficient depth or breadth to list all the good enough buildings. It has been seriously resource-constrained. None of that is to criticise Historic England. Thematic studies of the motor era and amusement parks have been of great value in expanding Blackpool’s list of listed buildings. But banks and department stores are all being affected by commercial change and the changes in our high streets in recent years. We could do a whole lot more for parks and gardens. I could hold an entire debate based on the Gardens Trust’s campaigning and helping safeguard Stanley park, a hidden jewel in Blackpool. That might be for my next heritage debate to drag the Minister to.

If the thematic programme is not expanded, we inevitably risk losses in the built environment. We have local listing, which I am sure the Minister will bring up, but that is also variable. There is often uncertainty about the status of local buildings. Inconsistencies can lower the protection they receive in different local authorities. I welcome the Government funding for 22 areas that will be encouraged to build up their local listings.

150th Open Championship

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Hollobone, particularly in these rather pleasant surroundings, it being rather cooler in the Chamber than outside.

I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) on securing the debate and on her compelling, passionate contribution. I learned quite a lot from it. She is sincerely passionate about golf, and it was fascinating to hear how an Act of Parliament requires her to be so. That part of history shows, as she said, how closely linked golf is to her local community.

I also thank the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) and my Front-Bench colleagues, the hon. Members for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) and for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), for their contributions. As is often the case with sport, I think that there will be a fair degree of agreement and consensus.

I am aware of the huge interest in golf. There has rightly been recognition of the value that it brings far and wide across the United Kingdom. From the grassroots right the way up to elite competition, the sport’s impact on local communities should not be underestimated. It has a social impact, an impact on physical and mental health and, as we have heard—I will come to this—a considerable economic impact. We talked about some of that before the debate—in particular how golf’s impact is disproportionately large in Scotland, and how the sport is widely recognised and respected.

I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife on her commitment to drive the conversations forward in many areas as a vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary groups for golf and for hospitality and tourism. We should acknowledge that those are active APPGs with many members, and that certain other activities and events taking place today may mean that colleagues who wanted to contribute to the debate are otherwise engaged.

This is a really timely moment, on the eve of the event’s 150th anniversary, to reflect on the noteworthy contribution of the world-renowned Open championship. I am thrilled that this year the Open is returning to St Andrews—it is, as was said many times, the home of golf—in the hon. Member’s constituency.

Golf has a long heritage in this country. with the Open championship first played in 1860 at Prestwick in Scotland, predating many other major sporting events that make up the British sporting calendar. The first FA cup final did not kick off until 1872, and it was not until 1877 that we had the first tennis at Wimbledon—at a different location from the current tournament, which had its 100th anniversary just last week.

The Open is golf’s oldest championship and the original of the four majors. It is only right that on the occasion of the 150th Open championship we will see the largest event in its long history, with a record-breaking 290,000 fans due to attend the world-renowned Old Course. I am extremely excited to see crowds return in all their glory after such a difficult period for spectator sport.

Last year’s championship was a brilliant success. At the other end of the country, the organising committee did a truly fantastic job to co-ordinate the tournament safely as part of the Government’s events research programme. That enabled 32,000 golf enthusiasts to attend each day of the four-day event, and I was fortunate enough to see one of them. I reiterate my congratulations on the delivery of last year’s Open at Royal St George’s with such professionalism and sensitivity as the country continued to navigate the challenges of the pandemic.

As the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North mentioned, golf did a fantastic job of engaging with Government and stakeholders, taking its responsibilities, in order to reopen safely. In the process, it managed to attract many new golf enthusiasts, many of whom have stayed with it. It has done a good job of recovering from the pandemic. Importantly, that has contributed not only to economic activity, but to people’s physical and mental health. The many benefits of golf that we all recognise are now known more widely than ever.

This historic anniversary has clearly created a renewed excitement and unprecedented demand among golf fans wishing to attend the Open championship, resulting in the highest ever number of general admission tickets being issued. We will certainly have quite an atmosphere at the Open over the next few days.

The Open follows the excitement of last week’s Genesis Scottish Open, where Xander Schauffele survived a nail-biting final round scare in East Lothian, winning the tournament with a one-shot victory. It was another fantastic sporting occasion on British soil. Another brilliant couple of golfing events will take place this summer, which I am looking forward to, with the women’s Open next month, hosted by Muirfield, and the PGA Championship in September, at the Wentworth Club in Surrey.

I applaud golf the game, as the hon. Member for North East Fife and all contributors have done, for the progress and investment made in ensuring that golf is inclusive and accessible for all, in particular the progress with women’s golf and disability golf. That is really important and is supported by the whole House.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I apologise for being late for the debate, Mr Hollobone—when the planes are delayed, it is beyond my control. Hon. Members will be able to tell from the sweat on my brow that it was quite frantic to get here. I apologise to everyone, including the Minister, and especially to the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain), who I wanted to support.

The Minister is outlining the case for golf across in Scotland, which I fully support, but I am ever mindful of golf across all the regions of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is really good in Northern Ireland as well. My council, Ards and North Down Borough Council, sponsored the PGA EuroPro Tour just last year. It was a wonderful occasion to highlight our council’s area. Across Northern Ireland we have some of the most fantastic gold tournaments, which promote Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I am sure that the hon. Member for North East Fife has talked about the benefits of golf a thousand times, but I endorse and support that, and put in a plug for us in Northern Ireland. We have some star players, including Rory McIlroy—he is the star who goes above and beyond—among many others. I just wanted to make that point, and apologies again for not being here in time for the start of the debate.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I was wondering when Rory McIlroy would be mentioned. We missed the hon. Gentleman earlier; if he reads Hansard, he will see that he was mentioned. He is absolutely right about golf’s contribution, which is what I will come on to now.

Golf has huge economic impact and importance across the UK, which is disproportionately large in the devolved areas because of the additional contribution of sport and its knock-on impact on tourism. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is right to highlight that importance. He mentioned the advocacy and support of councils, which was also mentioned by the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North, as well as the importance of golf at an appropriate price point. It is not a sport for posh people; it is genuinely a sport for all. I applaud many of the public and low-cost provisions in golf, which ensure it is accessible to many people.

Many local authorities and other institutions across the country are genuinely trying to make an effort to ensure that everyone can participate, no matter their income level. That is important for golf, because the sport recognises the perception that it is a bit posh, even though, looking at the demographics of the people who play golf, that is absolutely not the case. Again, I applaud the APPG for its work trying to get this point across. We all want golf, and all sport, to be for everybody.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, which again makes the point about the creativity and effort being made to ensure that golf is truly inclusive, which I applaud.

I will spend a little more time highlighting the valuable contribution that golf makes to the UK tourism sector, alongside sport overall. The sporting calendar is one of this country’s many tourism assets. Our sporting events not only act as a springboard for promoting the UK at home and abroad, allowing us to celebrate the diverse range of destinations across the country that we have to offer, but also serve as a catalyst for the wider sports economy. Every year more than 2 million visitors attend a live sporting event as part of their trip to the UK. In 2019, the last year for which complete figures are available, 61,000 of those visitors watched a live golf event during their stay, spending a total of £129 million. That is export revenue from inbound tourism. They stay longer than any other sports fan—an average of 16 nights per visit.

Visitors come not just to watch live golf at prestigious events such as the Open, but to play it. In 2019, more than 360,000 people embarked on a journey to the UK to play golf in some of our nation’s most scenic destinations. Those inbound visitors spent £525 million—a huge amount for local businesses and communities.

Golf continues to be an incredibly popular sport to play domestically across the UK, with 3,000 golf clubs on offer. Two new participation reports show that 5.3 million on-course adult golfers enjoyed playing on full-length courses in Great Britain and Ireland in 2021. That is the second highest number since monitoring began more than 30 years ago.

An independent forecast by the Sports Industry Research Centre, commissioned by the R&A, VisitScotland and Fife Council, indicated that the total economic impact of staging the 150th Open at St Andrews, with 290,000 fans in attendance, will reach £100 million or more. There is added value to be gained from broadcasting and digital marketing, and an estimated £100 million to St Andrews and Scotland as a result of the significant and ever increasing global media exposure. That increases the forecast total economic benefit of this year’s Open alone to more than £200 million, for the first time in history. That is a truly remarkable figure.

[Jim Shannon]

I am ever mindful that men might sometimes feel that they can play golf better than ladies. But about a month ago the Swedish golfer Linn Grant beat the gentlemen in a final. Does the Minister agree that that is an example of how golf equalises everyone? They are all on the same page. It is good to see ladies excel and beat men on many occasions—or all the time, probably. In golf, they do it well.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman, as always, makes an important point that I dare not disagree with. He is absolutely right. It is important that we showcase, support and encourage our women golfers and disability sports. We need them on television, too, because that inspires people to take part, and for those participating at elite level it is important for getting sponsorship and other support. I encourage broadcasters to seek opportunities to showcase golf on television as broadly as possible, because that will have an impact.

The legacy of these games is huge. The economic impact, which we just talked about, is important, but some people could be watching these golf events for the first time, get inspired and be sports stars of the future. I am always proud to reflect on the success and outreach of the many sporting events that we host in the UK. Whether the upcoming Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth games, the ongoing women’s Euros or the Open championship, sport has the power to unit, inspire and generate a better future for the nation. The positive contribution of golf to not only the UK economy but UK society as a whole is clear and emphatic, as we have discussed. I am excited to see the sport continue to grow in popularity and impact across its grassroots foundation and the elite fanbase.

The hon. Member for Manchester, Withington made the important point about the economic contribution of sport, particularly to help the recovery of the tourism sector. I gently remind him, though, that the tourism, hospitality and leisure sector was not neglected during the recovery. In fact, £37 billion of Government support was provided to the sector as part of the recovery, and it is bounding back very strongly.

A couple of Members mentioned the impact of the train strikes that we are unfortunately facing at the moment. All the politics aside, if an event is impacted by train or other strikes, it is important that people plan ahead, because they could be inconvenienced. However, I am pleased to say that at the Open, and indeed as we saw a couple of weeks ago with Glastonbury, the organisers are trying to communicate the challenges, encourage people to plan ahead, and put alternative measures in place, including park and ride, additional bus services, earlier or later trains, where possible, and so on. Again, with good communication, some of the challenges can be overcome.

However, I also appeal to all stakeholders, including the unions: please do not target sport; please ensure that people who have been planning these events, in many cases for years, can go ahead and deliver them as effectively and efficiently as possible. For the hundreds of thousands of people who are looking forward to sporting and music events and so on over the next few months—particularly as we recover from the pandemic—it is important that those go ahead and they can enjoy them.

Of course, if there is an impact, alternative plans and mitigation measures are being put in place by organisers. However, it is important that we do everything we can to enable the recovery of our sporting and tourism economies. Everybody has sympathy for the cost of living challenges that many people face, but there is a way to do things, and deliberately targeting events that people have been looking forward to may well not achieve the public support that is perhaps hoped for. I respectfully appeal to all stakeholders to work together so that we can overcome the challenges.

Our trains, in particular, are a really important part of the overall sports ecosystem. Many people going to sporting events rely on the trains. Similarly, tourism right across the country—for both domestic and inbound travel—relies heavily on trains. I think that we all want to ensure that people have long-term confidence in using our train services, and that trains can play their important role in the overall economic recovery. We understand the circumstances and the cost of living challenges, but let us all be sensible about how we achieve our goals.

I once again say a huge thank you to everybody who has contributed to this incredibly timely debate. I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife for securing it. I now look ahead to what I know will be a captivating few days of true golfing excellence at this historic 150th anniversary.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wendy Chamberlain]

Thank you, Mr Hollobone. Before we retire to the clubhouse, I think—[Interruption.] Yes, my round—it sounds like it. We have had a very positive debate. Although I have had apologies from other APPG members, it is good that everybody who has attended has contributed so well and given us all a history lesson. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood), who is no longer in her place, for rightly noting next year’s event, when the Open goes to England, to Royal Liverpool.

I am also grateful to the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands). I got more history—Paterson is my maiden name, so I will now go and do some research. He highlighted Bob MacIntyre—probably Scotland’s greatest hope this weekend—who is left-handed, famously, as a result of shinty. I will always bring it back to shinty if I can.

On shinty, I will say one other thing. We have talked about participation by people with disabilities and women, and that participation in sport is important. However, it is also really important that we start to see women operate in different positions in the governance of games as well. Since my election in December 2019, I have been encouraged to see an increased number of trustees from more diverse backgrounds in the links trust. As for myself, I was the first female director of the Camanachd Association between 2017 and 2019. It is also important for people to see that.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), highlighted the pandemic’s impact on golf and the fact that, for all that golf was really impacted, it has been seen to buck the trend by increasing and widening its participation. That has been really positive. The Minister talked about the APPG for golf, which is a very positive APPG. The reason for that is not just the participation of Members—from this place and the other place—but the engagement we have had from the national sporting unions and others such as the R&A. There is a real passion to drive forward and work productively with Government and parliamentarians.

All Members were right to highlight the importance of sporting tourism. We are all looking forward to welcoming visitors. I was in St Andrews yesterday, and lots of visitors are there already. I know people who are planning to be there for the whole week. We have had the events to mark the 150th Open, and there are events into next week. There is no doubt that people can come to sporting events and make that part of their visit, as opposed to that being the reason for their visit.

It has been a really positive debate. I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Strangford for getting here in the end and making a contribution. He rightly mentioned Rory McIlroy and the importance of Northern Ireland from a sporting perspective.

[Jim Shannon]

This has probably been mentioned—I know the Minister mentions it regularly. For us back home, golf featured greatly in our wellbeing during the covid-19 outbreak—indeed, that applies to all sports. It is good for both our physical and mental wellbeing. Back home, the impact mentally, socially and emotionally has been great. Golf has been almost a release valve. The hon. Lady deserves great credit for securing the debate, because golf can do really good stuff for everyone.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I thank the hon. Member for that contribution. In my opening remarks, I mentioned social prescribing and, increasingly, golf and other sports are looking to participate in that.

This has been a very positive debate. However, I feel it would be remiss of me if, having mentioned Rory McIlroy, I did not mention the fact that golf, from a media perspective, has not been in the most positive light lately, given some of the developments in the game. I agree with Rory and Tiger Woods, who have both spoken on this matter, that we all have a responsibility in sport. We have talked widely this morning about the real positives, such as participation and how we look up to our sporting greats, and it is for all who participate in all sports—golf included—to ensure that they always have that at the forefront of their minds.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the contribution of the 150th Open Championship to culture and sport in the UK.