Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 13th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

We are aware of that issue, and I hope to be able to outline exactly how we are dealing with it very soon. It is something we are aware of and looking to rectify.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP) [V]]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh), it is also the case that Northern Ireland citizens who hold a Northern Ireland driving licence cannot use that document to verify their claim for support from the self-employed income support scheme. Clearly, that is entirely wrong. It means that self-employed people in my constituency are being disadvantaged and cannot make their claim or have it verified. Will the Secretary of State liaise with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Treasury to ensure that Northern Ireland driving licences are an acceptable document for the purposes of verification for the self-employed scheme?

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, I am happy to work with the right hon. Gentleman to see whether we can find a logical, sensible and swift solution to that challenge.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Can the Secretary of State advise us what additional funding he is seeking to support the Northern Ireland economy, as we hopefully emerge from lockdown over the next few weeks and months? He will be aware of the situation with our economy, as with the economy across the United Kingdom. We are all anxious to know what additional support might be available from the Treasury for the recovery of our economy in Northern Ireland.

[Brandon Lewis]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. It is hugely important that we are ready, as we come out of lockdown, to not just recover from the economic situation with coronavirus but then turbocharge the economy across the United Kingdom, and particularly in Northern Ireland to see the economy flourish and grow. We have given £1.2 billion to the Northern Ireland Executive through the Barnett consequentials. That is on top of the UK-wide schemes, such as the job retention scheme. The Treasury and the Chancellor continue to look at everything we need to do to support businesses, people and every part of the United Kingdom as we come through this, and to ensure that we come out of it in a way that will allow our economy to re-flourish and grow in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 18th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

The Government are under a clear duty to deliver abortion reform for Northern Ireland, consistent with section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, which requires that evidence-based protocols are adopted for the provision of services in Northern Ireland. Those regulations will be laid, and the deadline for that is the end of this month.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

In the current circumstances, the priority of my party is to protect human life, including that of the unborn child. The Minister will be aware of concerns expressed by members of my party, including the First Minister, about the decision to press on with regulations on abortion in Northern Ireland, despite the Assembly being restored and this being a clear breach of the devolution settlement. Will the Minister heed the calls from Northern Ireland politicians for this matter to be dealt with by the Assembly, not this Parliament?

[Mr Walker]

I recognise the strong views on all sides on this issue. I also recognise the constitutional challenge, but the deadlines within which we have to act were clearly set by Parliament. It was clear that if the Assembly was not in place by the deadline in October, the Government would be under a legal obligation to lay the regulations by March. That is the obligation under which we are acting.

St Patrick’s Day

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman is right. The Irish Guards have drawn their numbers from the north and the south, and they have done so over many years. The colonel of the Irish Guards is Simon Nichols, who, at the minute, is serving in Belize. He is a very good friend of mine and also happens to be one of my constituents. He and his wife and family are in Belize for a three-year sojourn. I am very pleased to highlight the good work of the Irish Guards.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s speech and the debate. Does he agree that Her Majesty the Queen has played a very important role in recent years in promoting reconciliation between the British and Irish people? There is a former order known as the Order of St Patrick, which was once awarded in recognition of the contribution that men and women make to relationships within our islands. Would it not be appropriate for Her Majesty to consider reinstating that order?

[Jim Shannon]

My right hon. Friend and colleague has suggested something that perhaps the Minister of State could respond to in a positive fashion. I know that he will do so if he gets the opportunity. [Laughter.] I am sorry—I will give him the opportunity! I think that I may have been misinterpreted.

I have had the opportunity to attend, with the Friends of St Patrick, Irish Fest in Milwaukee over the years. There has been a really determined attempt to ensure that there are balanced and respectful accounts, and I welcome that.

Having spoken about the religious aspect of St Patrick, which is really important to me and to many others in this Chamber, it is also important to look at the tourism aspect, and I want to speak about that if I can.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend raises some important points. Northern Ireland’s tourism potential is enormous. I can confirm that, as was previously committed, the Government are reviewing the devolution of APD, and that review is ongoing.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

We welcome the success of Invest NI and others in attracting investment to Northern Ireland, but it is essential that we continue to have unfettered access to our biggest market, which is Great Britain. Economic growth is dependent on that and we need the Government to honour their commitments to ensure that we continue to have that access in both directions.

[Mr Walker]

I absolutely recognise the importance of the issues that the right hon. Gentleman raises. We will honour our commitments and have committed, through the “New Decade, New Approach” deal, to specific legislation on the issue. I look forward to working with the right hon. Gentleman and the other parties on delivering that.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Will the Minister indicate the timescale within which the Government hope to bring forward legislative measures? It is essential that business has the certainty that it needs at this time to take investment decisions.

[Mr Walker]

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, the commitment is to have the legislation in place by the end of the year, but there will of course have to be discussions through the usual channels as to the precise timing.

Northern Ireland Executive Formation

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that and I again pay tribute to her work; there were many, many references to specific meetings and engagements, and to a specific bottle of wine, when she hosted party leaders, and she made a big difference to the overall process. I thank her for her efforts.

On the office of diversity, these now are devolved matters, but I absolutely concur with the direction of my right hon. Friend’s question: let us not make this deal add to the division. Everything needs to focus on bringing the community in Northern Ireland together.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

May I add our voice of appreciation to the Secretary of State and his team for their efforts to help the political parties in Northern Ireland to secure agreement, to the former Secretaries of State, the right hon. Members for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) and for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), for the work they have done, and to our former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), for her efforts and for the particular attention she paid to Northern Ireland during her term of office? We welcome the deal as being fair and balanced. Of course, as for all parties, elements of the deal will be difficult and challenging for us going forward.

We welcome the measures for veterans in Northern Ireland, the appointment of a new Northern Ireland veterans commissioner and the full implementation of the armed forces covenant in Northern Ireland. These are welcome developments for the men and women who served our country. We also welcome the establishment of an Ulster British commissioner to promote the culture, heritage, arts, literature and so on of the Ulster British people of Northern Ireland. We believe that that is an important step forward in promoting and supporting the identity of all of us who regard ourselves as Unionists and having our place in the United Kingdom. On the commitments made on Brexit, I echo the question asked by the former Prime Minister. The current Prime Minister has talked about Northern Ireland having full access to new trade deals, so it will be interesting to see how that works out in practice.

The funding issue has already been raised by the Opposition Front Bencher. We are concerned that, if this deal is to work and devolution is to be effective in Northern Ireland, the resources need to be there in order to ensure sustainability. Can the Secretary of State assure us that the remaining balance of the confidence and supply agreement moneys previously committed by the Government will be included and will come to the Northern Ireland Executive in full?

[Julian Smith]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his victory in the Democratic Unionist party leadership election and I look forward to working with him. I echo his comments on the commitment of this deal to veterans and to the armed forces covenant, things that he and his party have campaigned so long for. I also pay tribute to Nigel Dodds and Emma Little Pengelly, who have left following the election, for their work. On the issue of funding, I can confirm that the confidence and supply funding will be dealt with in the estimates process in the usual way.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting: House of Commons & Committee: 2nd sitting
Wednesday 8th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Joanna Cherry]

I have to say that I think the ship has sailed on that, because of the outcome of the election in England, but the ship has not sailed on Scotland’s constitutional future, because, like it or not, the Conservative party was reduced to a rump of representation in Scotland at the general election and my party won 47 of the 59 seats. It is surely a matter of concern in a democracy that is not a unitary state but consists of several nations that no matter how many amendments I and my colleagues table to the Bill, and probably every other Bill in this Session, we are unlikely to achieve a single amendment.

Rather than the braying and jeering that occurred when the leader of my group, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), got up to ask his questions this afternoon, I suggest to those on the Government Benches that if they really believe in preserving the Union of the United Kingdom they might want to show a little more respect, not necessarily to me or my right hon. Friend, but to those who sent us here to advocate what the majority of people in Scotland want—and, whether those on the Government Benches like it or not, the majority of people in Scotland do not want to leave the European Union but want a second opportunity to look at Scotland’s constitutional future in the light of England’s decision to leave the European Union. I defy any democrat to say that that is not a reasonable position. I gently suggest to those on the Government Benches that jeering at the representatives of voters in Scotland, shouting us down and rubbishing our legitimate concerns is not a sustainable position for the next five years.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I am a Unionist, but I share the hon. and learned Lady’s view that the voices from the various and diverse parts of the United Kingdom need to be heard. She is right to say that the Government are unlikely to accept any of the amendments that represent legitimate concerns, not least among those of us who represent Northern Ireland. Indeed, all the main parties have come together in an unprecedented way to back many of these amendments. I hope that, post the withdrawal agreement, there will be more consultation and discussion that will include the representatives of the various parts of the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Thangam Debbonaire]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I, too, sat through yesterday’s debate, and that seemed to be what was being said. The Brexit Secretary himself said that there will have to be some sort of checks, which is inevitable. If we are to diverge from the current rules and Northern Ireland is to remain within them, there will have to be checks. It is no wonder that the people of Northern Ireland are concerned about the potential impact on their place within this United Kingdom.

Businesses in Bristol West have already told me of their anxieties, as I said, but they had a right not to expect there to be border checks within the UK. Northern Ireland’s place is enshrined in the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, but this is not just about trade—that is why I mentioned the agreement. This is about people. It is about values. It is about hopes and fears for the future, and it is about the feeling of belonging. It is about relationships between and within communities.

There is a perception among some in Northern Ireland, as hon. Members have mentioned, that a border nobody voted for will be created within the United Kingdom down the Irish sea. A border in the Irish sea does not bring people together, as the Good Friday/Belfast agreement does; it divides people and pulls them apart.

Amendment 1 seeks to give the Government a way of renewing their commitment to the Good Friday/Belfast agreement by showing that they still believe in the Union—the full Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The amendment would require them to report openly and transparently on the implications of the protocol for the movement of goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain and vice versa, for the Northern Ireland economy, for the fiscal and regulatory compliance of goods travelling between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, and for barriers to trade for third-country goods entering Northern Ireland and Great Britain from the rest of the EU and third countries.

Amendment 1 would require the Secretary of State to publish a report and lay it before both Houses of Parliament and each devolved legislature, and to provide for debate and proper scrutiny in both Houses. The first report should appear before 31 October. I can see no problem with that. If there is no problem, as the right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup says, what is the problem with transparency? It would not take the Government very long to do that reporting, and our constituents and the people of Northern Ireland have a right to expect such transparency.

If the Government do not support amendment 1, I can only ask them to respond. Do they feel they owe it to the people of Northern Ireland to report sufficiently on the commitment they made earlier in this process to avoid a hard border? What is it about transparency and accountability to the people of the whole United Kingdom to which they object?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

On transparency and reporting, it is important that Northern Ireland is represented on the proposed Joint Committee on the Northern Ireland protocol so that we have a direct input into how the arrangements are enacted.

Historical Institutional Abuse (Northern Ireland) Bill [Lords]

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 5th November 2019 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

The hon. Lady makes a very positive and sensible suggestion, and I am happy to do that. We spoke to Lady Hart last night, and Sir Anthony was, I think, perplexed by the slowness of us all to get this done. I will follow up as the hon. Lady suggests.

The draft legislation was subject to a 16-week consultation process in Northern Ireland, and the Bill was drafted by the Northern Ireland civil service at the request of, and based on a consensus reached by, all six of the main Northern Ireland political parties.

The inquiry’s report was published in January 2017, the same month as the collapse of the Executive, so the Executive never considered the report and it was not laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly. That is why, in July, the Government committed to introducing legislation by the end of the year, if the Executive were not restored, and it is why this was one of the first Bills in the Queen’s Speech.

This is the first Bill of its kind in the United Kingdom, with the results of inquiries in England and Wales and in Scotland yet to be completed. I hope this Bill will give some comfort and hope to victims of child abuse across our country.

Following the election announcement a week ago, there has been significant worry and concern from victims about how the Bill might progress. I thank the Prime Minister and Government business managers for facilitating the Bill today, and I thank Opposition business managers and Opposition spokesmen and women for coming to agreement and for working with us to ensure this Bill passes through both Houses before the election.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

It is the true mark of the House that, when it comes to dealing with the most vulnerable in our society—those who suffered for a long time and who have waited a long time for justice—this House rises to the occasion. That sets an example we might send back home to Northern Ireland in calling for all the political parties to come together, to get back to Stormont and to get back to working on behalf of all the people of Northern Ireland.

[Julian Smith]

I could not agree more.

I thank my colleague Lord Duncan of Springbank, Lord Hain and other noble lords and baronesses for their work in the other place last week. Many Members in the Chamber today have played a role in making today’s debate happen, particularly DUP Members, the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), the Chairman and members of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee and many, many more.

The desire and push from Northern Ireland has been significant. On Sunday night, a number of members of the Government received a letter from a Catholic priest who represents the diocese of Down and Connor, which was the location of two of the children’s homes at the centre of the inquiry. He said that it is

“a matter of deep personal shame for me and for the Diocese that both homes were found by the Inquiry to have fundamentally failed the children in their care, enabling regimes of horrific and systemic emotional, physical and sexual abuse of children, as well as neglect. In the period before the Inquiry, I came to know some of the former residents of these homes and publicly supported them in their calls for justice and an Inquiry. Over the years of the Inquiry and since, I have watched as those who led this campaign and the hundreds of former children in care who took part in the Inquiry relived the horrors of their time in these institutions and the abuse they suffered there. As children, they arrived at these homes frightened, disorientated and with the simple hope of every child that the adults in their lives would respond to them with affection, understanding, tenderness and care. Instead, they were met so often with hard-hearted coldness, harsh regimes of sterile adult routine and lovelessness, as well as indescribable sexual and physical abuse. It is difficult to overstate the suffering that the former residents of these homes have endured and continue to endure as a result of their experience.”

On the final day of one of the most divided Parliaments in British political history, we can say, hand on heart, that we have all come together, worked together and pulled together to deliver this Bill.

Northern Ireland Budget Bill

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 30th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

While we welcome the Bill, in so far as it is necessary, we most certainly do not welcome the circumstances in which Parliament has to legislate. I listened to the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), and he made some very important points. It is ironic that Members of Parliament elected to this House from constituencies in Northern Ireland who refuse to take their seats, and therefore do not involve themselves in the process, are the very people responsible for the fact that we are dealing with this legislation today and that we have limited ability to scrutinise it. There is only one party in Northern Ireland refusing to form a Government, and that party is Sinn Féin.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

My right hon. Friend is drawing attention to a matter that has been raised numerous times. Does he agree that, to add insult to injury, what does not get mentioned very often, in the House or outside, is the fact that the House pays those Members not to attend and represent their constituents and gives them expenses for office costs, flights and hotel bills?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

I appreciate that intervention. I know that from time to time Members express concerns about the pay of Members of the Legislative Assembly. I rarely hear a concern expressed about the paid lobbyists of Sinn Féin who are omnipresent in the coffee shops or outside on the Green but are absent from these green Benches, failing to fulfil their responsibilities to their constituents. Yet they alone are responsible for Northern Ireland’s not having a functioning Executive.

On 21 October—this month—the Assembly met, and representatives of a number of parties turned up. Shamefully, representatives of Sinn Féin were not among them. They absented themselves, and I have to say with some regret that the Alliance party also absented itself. This is the party that describes itself as the bridge builder, the party to bring people together, but on an occasion when we were bringing our elected representatives together at Stormont to try to break the logjam, the bridge builders were nowhere to be seen. They were absent without leave.

I hear lectures from some Alliance party representatives about how we should be doing this and that and restoring Stormont, but when they had an opportunity to show their presence and highlight the fact that Sinn Féin alone is holding the people of Northern Ireland to ransom, yet again the Alliance party gave Sinn Féin political cover by absenting itself from Stormont.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is an issue about which many people in all communities in Northern Ireland care very deeply? People are very concerned, because they do not know about the details that have led the Secretary of State to present regulations relating to the termination of pregnancies. Those who did not turn up, or who refused to go into that Chamber, did not just deny any democratic accountability in respect of that decision; they even closed down basic debate because they disagreed with another party’s stance, and some other people’s stance, on the issue. That is shameful. They should have at least facilitated debate, because the people of Northern Ireland wanted that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have said this before, but I will keep putting it on the record because it needs to be said, lest the perception be created that somehow this is a problem that goes beyond Sinn Féin. Yes, there are difficulties in Northern Ireland that need to be resolved. Yes, there are issues that need to be addressed. But the people of Northern Ireland elected their Members of the Legislative Assembly to go to Stormont and sort those issues out. The place in which to do that is the forum that was created under the Belfast agreement for the very purpose of resolving our difficulties.

For our part, the Democratic Unionist party wants to see Stormont functioning properly. If the Secretary of State, or the Speaker, or whoever, wants to convene the Assembly on any day, we will be there. We will appoint our Ministers, we will elect an Executive, we will play our full part. But our Assembly Members are being penalised, and I have to say, with the greatest respect to the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), that there is not a single Democratic Unionist MLA in Northern Ireland who does not want to be doing their full work at Stormont. In fact, we are losing good people because they cannot do their job.

I have a concern—others may not, but I do—about what this means for the political class in Northern Ireland. If we are dissuading people from becoming involved in politics, that is not good for the future of Northern Ireland, and it is not good for the development of the political process. I understand the sentiment that leads people to say, “Cut their pay”, but I think it a little unfair for all the Assembly Members to be punished because one political party refuses to do its duty and play its part in that political process, and is holding the rest of us to ransom.

[Bob Stewart]

I seem to recall that the Belfast agreement was fully signed up to by Sinn Féin, which should have guaranteed that it would be present in the Assembly.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and for his continued interest in Northern Ireland matters, which is deeply appreciated. We wish him well in the election.

[Bob Stewart]

Et vous!

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Thank you. We will be back.

It is frustrating that we find ourselves in this situation, and I have a lot of sympathy for the Secretary of State for having to perform these functions, but I want to echo the comments of the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who made the point earlier when he intervened on the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) that this cannot continue indefinitely. This is not how democracy should function.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that the issue about the pay of MLAs is ironic? We have raised an issue about political donations many times with the Secretary of State, and it is that Sinn Féin fundraises huge amounts of money outside the United Kingdom—in the United States and in other places—which it can use to sustain its operation, but it is the party that is preventing every other MLA from getting back to work. This needs to be addressed urgently.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is an impact on the political process in Northern Ireland when we have one party that receives funding from international sources, which skews the political system. That is something that we have consistently pressed the Government to address, and they have not yet done that.

[Sammy Wilson]

Does my right hon. Friend not find it ironic that when Sinn Féin raises those funds in America and other parts of the world, they can be used for the purposes of promoting the party in the United Kingdom but not in the Republic of Ireland? That is because the Government of the Republic of Ireland have had more guts in dealing with Sinn Féin than this Government here at Westminster have had.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

It goes further than that. In response to the point made by the hon. Member for Beckenham, I believe that we have not had direct rule reintroduced because Sinn Féin objects to it. On the one hand, it will not allow us to function as an Assembly and an Executive; on the other hand, it says that we cannot have direct rule. There is surely an irony there. The party that calls itself republican and objects to so-called British rule in Ireland is the party responsible for this Parliament having to exercise its authority to agree budgets and take legislative decisions. That is entirely down to Sinn Féin. It speaks out of both sides of its mouth. On the one hand, it is the ultimate republican party demanding an end to the British presence. Incidentally, that includes myself and all my right hon. and hon. Friends. It does not want us to be British. It does not want our British identity to be exercised, despite the fact that it has signed up to agreements that supposedly respect that. It does not respect this Parliament. Just this morning I heard Sinn Féin say that one of the slogans for this election will be to ditch Westminster. So, we have ditched the Assembly, and we have ditched the Executive—let’s ditch Westminster! What are we going to be left with to provide government within Northern Ireland? This is a ridiculous situation and it cannot go on.

I say to the Minister and to the Secretary of State that in the next Parliament we cannot continue with this situation with the absolute minimum of decisions being taken to pass budgets, when we do not have proper scrutiny of government in Northern Ireland. It is not right, and my colleagues have made that clear. I shall give one little example, and it relates to the education budget in Northern Ireland. I think there would be cross-party support for more funding going into special educational needs in Northern Ireland, yet we are frustrated in being able to influence those kinds of decisions, because we do not have an Assembly. There are parents in my constituency—and, I am sure, in those of all other right hon. and hon. Members from Northern Ireland—who are desperate to have adequate educational support for their children, but we cannot change the way in which the budget is spent because we do not have proper opportunity for scrutiny. That is just wrong, and it cannot continue.

I am proud of what the Democratic Unionist party has delivered in this Parliament for Northern Ireland: additional funding for public services, reform of our health service, and more money for our schools and for infrastructure projects. All those things are important, but it is extremely frustrating that we are not always able to influence how that additional funding is spent. That is difficult to explain to my constituents, because they expect their Member of Parliament to be able influence those things. We are neither one thing nor the other. We do not have direct rule from Westminster, and we do not have devolution in Northern Ireland. We are in this kind of—

[Bob Stewart]

Limbo.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Limbo; the hon. Member for North Dorset described it as another thing earlier. I cannot accept that for my constituents. This is not British democracy functioning for the people of Northern Ireland. I have every sympathy with the Secretary of State, and I commend his and his team’s efforts to bring the parties together to try to get an accommodation and to try to restore devolved government. We do not believe that the fault for that lies at the foot of the Secretary of State; it lies at the door of Connolly House in west Belfast, the headquarters of Sinn Féin, which is responsible for us having no Government.

I will briefly touch on two particular aspects of the budget, both of which speak to public safety in Northern Ireland. The first is the Police Service of Northern Ireland. One of the successes in recent years has been the progress in the level of public support for policing in Northern Ireland and the transformation of the police service. However, having met the Chief Constable recently, I am worried about police numbers. I know that the Government have said that they are recruiting more police officers—it is a big part of their platform for the general election—and I know that the PSNI is engaged in some recruitment, but the demographics and the turnover of experienced police officers are not being matched by recruitment. We will want to sit down with the Government after the general election to look at that, because there is a need to increase the number of officers available for community policing, which is crucial for the continuation of public confidence in policing in Northern Ireland.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

The Police Federation for Northern Ireland gave evidence at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee this morning, and I asked a series of questions about the required number of police personnel. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, looking at policing both in the past and at present, we appear to need in excess of 1,000 additional personnel?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is what the Police Federation for Northern Ireland and the Chief Constable have been saying, so we need to consider police officers and the recruitment process.

My final point on public safety relates to the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service, which is headquartered at Lisburn in my constituency and comes under the remit of the Department of Health. Of course, the Department has enormous pressures on its budget and on how it manages staff, so I have every sympathy, and the priority in the Department must be the health service and health service reform. However, I am nevertheless concerned about the downwards trend in funding for the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service. In 2019-20, the budget for the fire and rescue service is £74.1 million, but it was £81.6 million in 2011-12, so there has been a significant cut.

Earlier today, we had a debate on the report on the tragic circumstances of the fire at Grenfell Tower. None of us wants to see that kind of situation, but the cuts in the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service leave me concerned, as a public representative, about its capacity to respond to that kind of emergency situation. I will not go into all the detail of how those cuts are having an impact, but they are.

We have seen whole-time crews cut in Northern Ireland, which means that in many locations crews cannot deploy without part-time firefighters being available to provide them with the full complement they need to attend an incident. That is a matter of concern. That is in no way to question the professionalism of part-time firefighters—far from it—but it is an unsatisfactory situation for the fire and rescue service to be in, because it can result in delays while full-time fire crews wait for their part-time colleagues to arrive before they can respond to an incident.

That is a having an impact on response times for fire crews in Carrickfergus, Portadown in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson), Omagh, Enniskillen, Newtownards in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and Armagh. The cuts are also having an impact in Londonderry. It concerns us that the capacity of the fire and rescue service to respond to major incidents is being diminished in Northern Ireland.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

My right hon. Friend has outlined a number of towns where fire services will be cut. Does he share my annoyance and concern over the reductions in the fire service in towns that are growing, with a population growth of some 10%, 15% or even 20%?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

Indeed I do. I have made the point that the population of Northern Ireland has increased in the period I quoted.

We welcome the progress that has been made. The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service does a great job at fire prevention. Its fire safety talks in schools and to community groups have been very successful. Nevertheless, I am concerned that if we have major incidents in Northern Ireland, like we had at the Primark building in the centre of Belfast, the capacity of our fire crews to respond and the specialist equipment that needs to be deployed will have been diminished as a result of the cuts.

[Gavin Robinson]

My right hon. Friend is right to mention critical incidents. Although he did not refer specifically to cuts in my constituency, the Knock fire station is one of those that houses an aerial appliance, which is crucial for high-rises in the city of Belfast and for Belfast City airport in my constituency. It is important that we not only plan for critical incidents, but have the crews available to resource the appliances that are required.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the capacity and ability of the fire and rescue service to respond to major incidents such as one—though we would never want it to happen—at Belfast City airport.

I give that illustration simply to make the point that I would like my Assembly Members and those who represent the towns and cities that I have mentioned to be able to scrutinise properly how our budgets are being allocated and spent, and to consider the impact on public safety as they do so, as any legislator or political representative would. They are denied the opportunity to do that, and we cannot do it on their behalf properly or effectively. This is not a criticism of any Department or of the civil servants who are making the decisions, but the civil servants themselves would say that the absence of that political input is harmful. It is to the detriment of the people of Northern Ireland.

We cannot go on like this. The current situation is not fair on the people of Northern Ireland. If the Government are returned after the general election, I hope that we will be able to sit down, and if there is not the basis for restoring devolution—if the political parties cannot reach an accommodation—we will take some tough but right decisions to give a degree of accountability and scrutiny back to the political process in Northern Ireland through this Parliament.

Northern Ireland: Restoring Devolution

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Julian Smith]

Sinn Féin, like other parties, has been engaging very positively with me, and I have had good conversations with its senior leaders. As this House makes a positive decision on Brexit in the coming days, I think that is a significant change, and it could be the catalyst for further movement on these talks.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I cannot emphasise enough to the Secretary of State how important the principle of consent is to Unionists. The idea that a decision of the momentous nature of the one we will be expected to take in four years’ time does not reflect adequately the principle of consent, as expressed in the Belfast agreement, has serious implications for our ability to support the restoration of devolution without that safeguard. I say with all seriousness to the Secretary of State that if this issue is not addressed, it goes well beyond this Brexit deal.

[Julian Smith]

I say again to my colleagues and friends in the DUP and to Unionists across this House and in Northern Ireland that this protocol is for a reserved matter; it is not for the Assembly. The Belfast agreement is extremely clear that there will be matters that are not subject to the consent mechanisms in the Assembly. The Government will continue to work to ensure that this protocol, as the Bill goes through Parliament, is executed in a way that is reassuring to all Members and all parts of the Northern Ireland community. But remember that the issue with the backstop was a lack of consent. This consent mechanism is intended to deal with that, but it has no effect on the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 7

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Monday 30th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

May I thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the tone he adopted in his opening remarks? Like him, I will divide my remarks into two parts. First, I will make a few casual, general observations. I have seen the video clip that the Northern Ireland Office has put on Twitter today, marking nearly 1,000 days since there was last an Executive at Stormont. Clearly, that is a running sore and it just goes on. Although I usually travel in an optimistic frame of mind, Brexit is clearly the elephant in the Chamber and in Northern Ireland. It is hard, if not impossible, to see how Stormont could get up and running prior to 31 October, but I wish the Secretary of State and all parties well.

I say to Opposition Members and, indeed, to all political parties in Northern Ireland that from talking and listening to people and from reading what they say, my hunch is that we seem to have got incredibly hung up on process, whereas real people in the real world who are concerned about the delivery of vital local public services just want to see them delivered. Whether the issue is Brexit or the restoration of Stormont, the public have a limited reservoir of patience. When it is drained, that will be it—there will be no more reservoir on which to draw. That patience is running thin and people are not necessarily interested in the blame game politics of “He said, I said, they said, we would, they might, we didn’t”. The message is clear, just as it is on other things in this topsy-turvy political age: “Either make progress or get out of the way and let those who are interested in making progress have a go.” I think we are close to that point.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I thank the Chairman of the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs for giving way. He makes a valid point. The question is: who do we give way to? As currently constituted, the institutions cannot have a power-sharing Government without their being cross-community and representing a majority of both nationalists and Unionists. That implies that direct rule is the only other option. May I connect Brexit with the absence of Stormont and suggest to the hon. Gentleman that if we leave the European Union on 31 October, so many decisions will need to be made as a consequence that we will have no alternative but to reintroduce direct rule?

[Simon Hoare]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for those observations. I made that point in a radio interview in Northern Ireland last week. He may have heard me take my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster to task last week. As we get closer to 31 October, the civil servants in Northern Ireland are clearly doing their best. They are straining every sinew to try to keep the show on the road, but they can only do so, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows, within the confines of public and local policies that enjoy the imprimatur of previous Executives. I thought that the welter of pressing needs told against the early Prorogation. There was plenty that this House could have been getting on with, at least to provide some form of legislative safety net were Stormont not to be up and running by 31 October. There is no point in those on the Treasury Bench waking up on 29 October and saying, “Oh gosh—the 31st looks a bit close. What on earth are we going to do?”

Let us be frank: there could well be, with or without a deal post 31 October, issues that will need to be mitigated. If issues will need to be mitigated on the mainland, by golly they will also need to be mitigated in Northern Ireland, enjoying as it does—although “enjoying” is a pejorative term, I am sure—what will be the only land border with the European Union. We will need to be incredibly fleet of foot. I am not sure whether civil servants in Northern Ireland are currently sufficient in number to be able to deal with the scale of the issue, but they, coupled with local government, will need every tool at their disposal to ensure that normal life can continue for the taxpayers and residents of Northern Ireland. It is not for the lack of chivvying by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, but there seems to be an incredible disconnect between the strategy of No. 10 and the Cabinet Office vis-à-vis Brexit GB and their strategy vis-à-vis Brexit Northern Ireland, which cannot be allowed to stand. Greater urgency is required.

I turn briefly to the subject of the motion and the report tabled by the Secretary State: historical institutional abuse. I concur with and underscore entirely the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield), a fellow member of the Committee, and of the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) and the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Nigel Dodds). Had this scale and range of abuse, over such a period of time, happened in North Dorset or anywhere else in England, it would have been rectified and sorted out by now.

I share the concerns expressed specifically, although not exclusively, by the hon. Member for North Down. Opaque language may have been the order of the day in the Secretary of State’s recent job as Government Chief Whip, but a Bill dealing with this issue, this running sore, must be announced in the Queen’s Speech and enacted before Christmas—not introduced before the end of the year but done and dealt with by the end of the year, subject to Stormont not being back up and running.

I make this wager with my right hon Friend, and luckily it is for somebody else to take cognisance of this point: unless a Bill is announced in the Queen’s Speech, my hunch is that some of us would find great difficulty in voting for the Gracious Speech when the vote is called. We do not want to add to the catalogue of Government defeats—well, not all of us do—and I am heartened by what the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) said. This is not a contentious piece of legislation.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) is right that the devil will be in the detail, and that getting the process and the rubric correct and beyond challenge is important, but people should listen, as the Committee has, to Mr Jon McCourt or Margaret McGuckin talk about these issues and the people they represent. I know my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has certainly met Margaret, and I believe she calls him Mr Darcy—I do not know whether that elates him or not, but it is the only light moment in this sad and sorry episode.

In great part, it was organs of the state that put these young children in those institutions where they were abused. Some had mothers who, for a whole variety of reasons—many of which we have heard and which do not need going over again today—put their children and young babies in what they thought was a place of safety that would provide a gateway to a better life. If they had known what we now know, they would not have taken that route.

Officialdom did not know but, beyond the tight kernel of my right hon. and hon. Friends who are Ministers in the Department, I am not certain whether that historical social and special responsibility has been taken into account. I hope that the business managers and others have heard the very strong sense of feeling and the drive for justice. Many of these people are elderly, and many of them are vulnerable. They feel as though they are being slightly brushed under the carpet and ignored, like an eccentric great aunt at a wedding: there but not really engaged, and hoping they will go home before the reception finishes.

These victims of abuse are going nowhere until justice is delivered in full, and neither are their champions in this place, because to do anything other would be a failure in our duty.