Security in Northern Ireland

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dodds]

The hon. Gentleman has enormous experience, having served in Northern Ireland. He and his colleagues who served in the armed forces have helped to contribute to bringing about the peaceful circumstances of today. He is right to remind us of the continuing issues that many people, including members of the security forces, have. I shall come on to deal with the issues affecting prison officers in more detail shortly. Members of those forces in our constituencies have come to our offices and have spoken to us about their worries about their personal security. The hon. Gentleman is right that members of the police service and people who are connected in any way with the security forces might be seen as some kind of target by these dissident terrorists. We all live daily with these kinds of threats or potential threats. People often say, “Well, there’s no specific intelligence out there to indicate that any particular individual is at risk”, yet we have discovered—we know from the recent tragic events—that that does not necessarily provide any reassurance at all. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments.

The victims, to whom we referred earlier, continue to live with the scars and wounds of the violence inflicted on them—and they will carry those wounds to their graves. It is important that we never forget the sacrifice of the innocent and the victims and their families and the loved ones left behind.

Coming on to the issue of personal security, prison officers and their families are living every day with the threat of murder and injury hanging over their heads. During the worst of the violence in the Province, more than two dozen prison officers lost their lives to terrorists. This was a deliberate strategy by republicans and loyalists to win concessions for their prisoners serving time for terrorist-related offences. Just as the murder of those officers was met with widespread and near-universal revulsion in the community in the past, so will this latest attempt to intimidate and suborn the forces of law and order.

On personal protection for prison officers, police officers and their families, we have some serious concerns about the present personal protection arrangements—the maintenance of protection equipment, for instance, in the homes and other places where members of the security forces have those arrangements in place. The arrangements must be robust enough to ensure the security of those who work in our prisons and in our police service. This is an area in which the Government have a duty to act. The Northern Ireland Office and the Secretary of State oversee the home protection scheme, which prison and police officers avail themselves of, and it is within their power to ensure that the fullest possible protection is afforded to those officers. I encourage them to do everything in their power in that regard.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that under the special purchase of evacuated dwellings scheme in Northern Ireland—I accept that this is mainly a devolved matter, but it touches on national security issues— we have prison officers, police officers and others who have had to leave their family home and move to alternative accommodation? They are being seriously disadvantaged because the value of their home has reduced significantly, particularly if they purchased it at the height of the property boom. They now face the prospect of losing a lot of money. Should we not be looking to find ways of compensating those people who, through no fault of their own—it was because of a security threat—now find themselves out of their home and facing a substantial loss?

[Mr Dodds]

My right hon. Friend raises an important issue, which I know has been raised in the context of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I know that the Minister for Social Development, whose Department administers the SPED scheme in Northern Ireland, has also been looking at this issue. As my right hon. Friend rightly pointed out, members of the security forces were told that they had to move. The criteria for qualifying under the SPED scheme have a quite high threshold, so people are granted support only in the most extreme circumstances where their life may be in danger. People often find themselves with negative equity—a problem not of their own creation.

A wider issue connected with the SPED scheme, about which I have been concerned for some time, is the fact that the money spent on the scheme comes out of the Northern Ireland housing budget. I think that is something that needs to be looked at. SPED is a security-related measure, so it needs to be looked at in that context rather than being seen as a housing issue. The specific matter raised by my right hon. Friend has, I think, been the subject of some discussion between the Minister of Justice, the Chief Constable and the Minister for Social Development. It is certainly an issue that we need to continue to raise on behalf of our constituents.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

I am sure that when decisions are ultimately taken on the Northern Ireland block grant and future spending reviews, appropriate consideration will be given to the security situation in Northern Ireland.

Ministers and security advisers meet regularly to review our counter-terrorism strategy and to ensure that everything that can be done is being done. Although the threat level remains at “severe” in Northern Ireland, real progress has been made. Excellent co-operation between the PSNI and its partners has put the terrorists under strain in recent months. There have been significant arrests, charges and convictions. In fact, so far this year there have been a total of 143 arrests in Northern Ireland, in addition to a number by An Garda Siochana in the Republic of Ireland. There have also been 52 charges against those involved in national security attacks brought since January 2012, including a number for serious terrorism-related offences. In addition, 25 caches of weapons and improvised explosive devices have been seized.

We remain committed to supporting the PSNI, its partners and Justice Minister David Ford in countering the threat and preventing the so-called dissidents from causing death and destruction. I regularly meet the Tanaiste and the Irish Minister of Justice and discuss these matters, and I am in no doubt that the Irish Government and their police service remain fully committed to tackling terrorism. The relationship between the Garda Siochana and the PSNI is better than ever and it continues to save lives.

As for the question asked by the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) on the disclosures about commissioning, she will be aware that the body that carried out the decommissioning process was an independent one. It chose not to publish the inventory of its work, so the Government do not actually have the information to which she referred.

[Mr Donaldson]

I was involved in the negotiations leading to the Belfast agreement, and in the legislative process here in Parliament. The Government have a statutory duty in relation to decommissioning. The legislation made provision for the publication of an inventory of the weapons that had been decommissioned at the end of the process, so I do not think the Secretary of State can simply evade the issue by saying that the commission was independent. The commission had legislative force from this Parliament and surely, therefore, there is an issue of accountability.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am happy to look at the matter that the right hon. Gentleman raised and discuss it further with him.

We are resolutely determined to bring an end to the senseless violence that can still cause such pain and loss in Northern Ireland, but as I said earlier, security measures alone will not bring an end to terrorist activity, although of course they remain essential. We also need to build a more prosperous and less divided society if we are finally to force out those violent groupings completely. Northern Ireland still faces many serious economic and social challenges after the troubles. We need to continue efforts to rebalance the economy and revive the private sector, and we must tackle sectarianism and the causes of division in society, which can fuel the discontent on which terrorists will try to capitalise.

Addressing ongoing community segregation is not just a social and political priority; it is a security priority as well. That is one of the reasons why, in his speech to the Assembly last year, the Prime Minister emphasised the crucial importance of building a genuinely shared future for Northern Ireland. The UK Government remain committed to working closely with the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Executive in their efforts to deliver that shared society.

However, we must not forget how far Northern Ireland has come since the dark days of the troubles. As rightly highlighted by the right hon. Member for Belfast North, we have unprecedented political stability. For the most part, people go about their daily lives in a way that would have been unthinkable in the past; and in so many ways Northern Ireland is now projecting itself on the world stage for the right reasons.

This year we have seen Northern Ireland host the Irish golf open, the Olympic torch relay, the Titanic centenary events and, of course, the fantastically successful visit by Her Majesty the Queen. Next year will see the world police and fire games bring more than 20,000 competitors and spectators to Northern Ireland. Derry-Londonderry will be the UK city of culture. It will host the Fleadh which is being held in Northern Ireland for the first time. Also, as we have heard, it is now officially, according to “Lonely Planet”, the fourth best city in the world to visit.

As announced yesterday by the Prime Minister, the Government are recognising once again the transformation that has taken place in Northern Ireland by bringing the leaders of eight of the world’s largest economies to County Fermanagh. County Fermanagh will genuinely be the centre of the world in June next year. The G8 conference will showcase Northern Ireland as an inspirational setting for world leaders to discuss ambitious solutions to pressing global problems. As the First Minister said yesterday, that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago. It demonstrates a modern, confident, forward-looking Northern Ireland.

This Government in no way underestimate the severity of the ongoing security threat. We remain vigilant. The House should be in no doubt that we will do everything we can to protect the people of our country from terrorism; and we will continue to support the PSNI, the Executive and the community in ensuring that the terrorists do not succeed in their aims. The people of Northern Ireland have achieved so much over the past 20 years and they are determined to continue the hard-won progress that has been made. The overwhelming majority stand by the principle that Northern Ireland’s future will only ever be determined by democracy and by consent, and not by violence. The Government will continue to be vigilant in combating the terrorist threat as an essential part of our wider efforts to deliver a peaceful, stable and prosperous Northern Ireland, of which all its citizens can be proud and in which everyone has a genuinely shared future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I will continue to work as closely as I can with all parts of Northern Ireland, particularly the Department of Finance and Personnel and businesses, but there would be a cost to the Minister for Finance and Personnel, which I know he is aware of, but as yet we have not had a request for short haul. If we do, we will look at it.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

7. What discussions she has had with the Irish Government on extending the deadline for the completion of the Smithwick tribunal.

[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mike Penning)]

As yet, I have not had the opportunity to have introductory discussions with the Irish Government, although I have had discussions with the Irish ambassador in London. Although the sponsorship of the Smithwick tribunal is a matter for the Irish Government, I am aware of the recent intention to extend the deadline for the tribunal to complete its work.

[Mr Donaldson]

It is absolutely crucial that the tribunal is extended because of the revelations in recent times. We need to get to the truth of the matter. These were the two most senior RUC officers to be murdered by the IRA and there is strong evidence of collusion on the part of Irish state forces, so we need to know precisely what happened.

[Mike Penning]

I think we would all agree that what we require is the truth. The Republic of Ireland Government have been asked for an extension, that is true, and we will give all the assistance we can. In recent weeks we have given more help in the form of the evidence we have discovered in the north and we will continue to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The second layer of our strategy in bearing down on these groups is to get into those communities, but nearly all the projects are in the hands of local Ministers. We strongly support the CSI—cohesion, sharing and integration—strategy, which we want to be published as soon as possible, because we believe that the future is a shared future, not a shared-out future.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

12. Last night we had a briefing from senior retired police officers about the threat to national security from evidence that is being given in inquests in Northern Ireland that opens up the whole modus operandi of our security forces and security services. What do the Government intend to do to protect national security from this threat?

[Mr Paterson]

The right hon. Gentleman raises a very serious issue. A whole number of legacy inquests—up to 32—are coming down the track. I would like to assure him formally that measures are in place under the existing arrangements that allow an inquest to go ahead fairly, but information that might be dangerous if released to individuals can be held back. There are measures that can be worked out, but the final decision rests with the coroner. Until now, these arrangements have worked well, and they will continue in their current guise.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

For my hon. Friend I repeat above the hullabaloo that Northern Ireland is a world-class destination for film and TV production. I welcome the moves taken in the Budget to encourage further investment there. The Paint Hall studio in the Titanic Quarter has recently been used for “City of Ember”, the mediaeval comedy “Your Highness”, and, of course, the first two series of the European “Game of Thrones”, which has so far brought about £43 million to the Northern Ireland economy. Yes, we are open for business, and if anyone out there is watching—I am sure there are many—come to see us in Northern Ireland and we will assure you of an excellent service.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

Will the Minister encourage the British film industry to make more use of the facilities available to it in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Swire]

I rather hoped that was what I had just done, but I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s question so that I can repeat again that Northern Ireland is a great location, providing a great landscape, very willing people, a hard-working work force, financial incentives and great studio production facilities. More than that I cannot say.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which was behind the introduction of the statutory instrument. I hope that this will happen at the earliest opportunity. Primary legislation will be required: we have extended the order for a further two years, so it allows us time to find a suitable legislative vehicle.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

One of the problems with regulating donations to political parties in Northern Ireland is that a loophole enables some parties to bring funds in through the Republic of Ireland—without requiring the kind of registration that applies to funds donated within the United Kingdom. Will the Government move to close this loophole so that there is a level playing field for the funding of political parties in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Swire]

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that any donation over £7,500 has to be declared to the Electoral Commission, as it does in the rest of the UK, so that is covered. When we move towards a Bill on the whole issue of elections in Northern Ireland, we can certainly look at that issue, along with other anomalies that we believe exist.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new role. I will say emphatically, for the third time during this Question Time—and I said it to the Chief Constable yesterday and to the Justice Minister this morning—that should the security position in Northern Ireland deteriorate, we will adhere to the arrangements, which we have conceded were fixed by the previous Government, that given a deteriorating security position, the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable can come to the UK Government with a security case for funds from the contingency reserve.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

4. What discussions he has had with the Irish Government on arrangements for the proposed visit by Her Majesty the Queen to the Irish Republic.

[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

Responsibility for any visit by Her Majesty the Queen lies with my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, in consultation with Buckingham Palace. I know that the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, and the President, Mary McAleese, have expressed their support for a visit by Her Majesty and I very much hope that such a visit will be possible.

[Mr Donaldson]

In light of the debate that will take place in this House this afternoon and the valuable assistance that we are providing to the Republic of Ireland in its time of need, is it not past time that we had a visit by the sovereign to the Republic of Ireland? After all, the President of the Republic of Ireland has visited the United Kingdom on many occasions and I think it is time now for a degree of maturity and for this issue to be addressed.

Northern Ireland

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dodds]

May I express my great frustration and annoyance at our being denied time to debate these important matters? However, I am sure that your statement will come as a great relief to other hon. Members, Mr Deputy Speaker.

In all seriousness, as the Minister said, the orders are technical, although they flow from significant primary legislation, which we have already debated at some length since we returned from the summer recess.

On the issue of having the three elections on one day, the orders are designed to make the elections run smoothly and prevent difficulties in the conduct of the elections for the chief electoral officer, his officers and, not least, the electorate. That is welcome, particularly on issues such as making sure that the timetable is consistent for both the council elections and the Assembly elections. There has been some criticism in previous years in Northern Ireland about the rather strange timetable adopted for council elections compared with Assembly and parliamentary elections. If my memory serves me right, when I served in local government and had to submit nomination papers, that had to be done four and a half weeks before election day, so there seemed to be an inordinately long campaign for local government elections compared with others.

Obviously it is important that the timetable is synchronised and that issues such as postal and proxy votes are properly managed so that people applying for them receive one package through the post containing the necessary forms and one containing the three ballot papers. I am glad to hear that there will be three separate, differently coloured ballot papers. I am sure that we have all learned the lesson from Scotland—this never happened in Northern Ireland—when there was an attempt to have two different kinds of ballot on one paper. That was a big mistake and I am sure that it will never happen again.

We are where we are as far as the coincidence of the council and Assembly elections and the referendum is concerned. Obviously, it is preferable that, where possible, there are not so many choices on so many matters before the electorate on any given date, but people in Northern Ireland are used to having joint elections. Indeed, the council elections in 2001 and 2005 coincided with a Westminster general election. If memory serves me right, it may have happened before that. I know that at one time elections were deliberately brought together by the then leader of the Ulster Unionist party, which is no longer represented in this House, because he thought that it would increase turnout and support for his party. As with so many of his calculations, it did not quite work out that way on the day.

This is a sensible set of provisions for 5 May next year. The Minister referred to the date of the council elections for next year, and said that it was the result of the Executive not acting on the recommendation to proceed with the reform of local government. He did not go into the reasons for that, of course, but I would not want the House to be under the impression that this was the result of a lack of desire among most of the parties in the Assembly to make progress on the issue. Even if the reform did not lead to a reduction in the number of councils, other reforms were proposed, such as greater collaboration among councils and the various departments for which they are responsible. Unfortunately, it was not possible to achieve the major cost saving that would have accrued to councils in Northern Ireland because of the intransigence of one party, Sinn Fein, which rejected that constructive proposal. Therefore we are left having to proceed with the election with no real reform to local government due.

When costings were carried out for the council reforms, it became clear that there would have been considerable up-front costs. Given that the Northern Ireland block grant has been severely hit as a result of the recent comprehensive spending review, and the already severe restrictions, difficulties and challenges facing the Northern Ireland Executive on public expenditure, it was felt that this was not an appropriate time to proceed with that particular reform. Obviously, when it comes to choosing between council reform and health expenditure, education and so on, people are right to choose the latter. That is the background to the reason for the proposals for the date of the election and why they will involve the same number of councils as previously.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

The hon. Member for Falkirk (Eric Joyce), who spoke for the Opposition, referred to the reduction in the number of constituencies in Northern Ireland that may result from legislation going through Parliament at the moment and wondered what would have happened had there been a reduction in the number of councils. Is there not a danger in Northern Ireland that the larger we create constituencies and councils, the more removed government becomes from the people?

[Mr Dodds]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to that. The previous Government proposed reducing the number of councils to seven. I am the first to support a reduction in governance and the number of elected officials and all the rest of it, but a reduction to seven councils would have meant that Northern Ireland councils would be bigger than any other region of Europe. I am sure that the former Minister, the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins), will go into considerable detail on that in his speech.

The lack or inadequacy of consultation on the primary legislation with parties in the Assembly and the Executive has been mentioned. I do not want to go over that, but consultation on Assembly and local elections with the chief electoral officer of Northern Ireland is mentioned in the orders and the explanatory memorandum. I recently met the new chief electoral officer. He is a very impressive officer and I think he will do an excellent job, but it is clear that he sought, during consultations on both the primary legislation and the secondary legislation that we are debating, some changes to the way in which elections are carried out that were not proposed by the Northern Ireland Office.

I am thinking in particular about the removal of polling agents from Northern Ireland polling stations. The Minister is nodding his head, so perhaps he has held discussions on polling agents. This is an important matter. Commendably, we have a sophisticated and elaborate system to tackle identity fraud and the abuse of the electoral system. As has been said, people must now produce certain types of photographic identification or sign postal votes, and their signatures are carefully examined. Postal and proxy vote abuse has been considerably reduced from the large-scale abuse that took place in previous elections. Our system is a model for dealing with postal votes for the rest of the UK. If the rest of the UK wants to cut out the abuse of postal voting, people should look at the administration and regime in Northern Ireland. Clearly, our system is now without any kind of abuse at all.

However, why do we still need polling agents—representatives of political parties—sitting in polling stations in Northern Ireland? The NIO, which is still responsible for elections, should address that, because it is clear that one or two parties—I am thinking of one in particular—clearly abuse that for purposes not in keeping with the legislation. Information is taken out of polling stations, so that voters who have not voted can be identified and then, of course, visited. They will be asked, “Why have you not voted?” and told to get out to vote. In certain parts of the Province and in certain circumstances, people will feel intimidated by that, so polling agents are being used for nefarious purposes. I urge the NIO to take that seriously when it next gets a legislative opportunity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I will be brief, as there are just a couple of issues that I want to raise with the Minister.

Wards are the building blocks for both local government districts and parliamentary constituencies, and one of the consequences of the delay in the local government elections is that the ward boundaries have not been reviewed for a considerable time. In my constituency, as a result of the most recent parliamentary boundary review, the ward of Derriaghy is now split between the Lagan Valley constituency and the Belfast West constituency. It is the only ward in Northern Ireland that is split. Other wards need to be reviewed, as there have been significant population movements since the last ward boundaries revision.

As a result of legislation currently passing through the House, we now face the prospect of new parliamentary boundaries being created and a reduction in the number of constituencies, possibly from 18 to 15 in Northern Ireland. That review will take place on the existing ward structures. I therefore seek an assurance from the Minister that we will have a review of the ward boundaries at a very early date. That has been held back because of the review of local government, but the boundaries are now significantly out of date and there are disparities in ward sizes—and, as I have mentioned, in at least one case a ward is split between two parliamentary constituencies. We would be interested to hear what proposals the Minister has in respect of the urgent need to review ward boundaries in Northern Ireland.

My second question relates to the counts that will follow the two elections and the referendum in Northern Ireland next year. What will be the order of precedence for those counts? Will the referendum be counted first, because it is a UK-wide referendum? Will the Assembly election count take place before the local government election count, as has been the case in the past? Will the Minister give us some idea as to what will be the order of the counting of votes following these three separate ballots, and will they all take place in the one counting centre in each of the local areas, or will the referendum ballot be counted separately? I seek clarity on these matters.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to that. Alas, Captain Nairac is not alone. A considerable number of bodies have yet to be located, and that we hope that will happen in due course.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

The Minister has already referred to the winding up of the commission dealing with the disappeared. Does he think that is wise, and does he think it is wise also to wind up the Independent Monitoring Commission, given the ongoing paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Swire]

The right hon. Gentleman may have misheard me. I have not said that we will wind up the former. With reference to the latter, we announced that there would be one more valedictory report. It was established in the first place to monitor the connections between elected representatives and paramilitaries. We believe that that is no longer appropriate or necessary.

Billy Wright Inquiry

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Tuesday 14th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I wholeheartedly endorse the comments of the hon. Lady and her hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan). People suffered at the hands of the INLA, the LVF and the Ulster Volunteer Force and I wholeheartedly condemn those who caused that suffering. We should not forget that it was terrorists who caused those deaths.

When I meet the Justice Minister on Monday, I will go through the recommendations in the report. However, they are not for me to impose. That is what devolution is all about. Devolution is in the hands of local Ministers. We will have a thorough and open discussion, because, as the hon. Lady says, the facts involved are shocking, but we should also bear in mind that those facts date from a long time ago, and concern an institution that has long since closed. What I have seen leads me to believe that there is no comparison between the Northern Ireland Prison Service today and the service that struggled to handle the extremely difficult circumstances of holding 500 determined murderers in the Maze.

The hon. Lady asked briefly about the Finucane and Ballymurphy cases. I am due to have meetings with those concerned, and I think it would be wrong for me to jump the gun before I have met them.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

The Maze prison, where the murder occurred, is in my constituency. I well recall the events, and the subsequent inquiries and investigation by the police. I am concerned about the fact that the report does not identify how the weapons were brought into the prison. That remains a key issue. All the other failings were important, but it is doubtful whether the murder could have occurred had those weapons not been available to terrorists in what was reputedly the most high-security prison in Europe. I do not think that we can allow the report to pass without further inquiry into how the weapons came to be in the possession of the INLA terrorists.

There will also be doubts in many people’s minds today about the series of events leading up to the murder of Billy Wright. I condemn murder, whether by the LVF or by any other paramilitary or terrorist organisation. My thoughts are, of course, with the victims, but Billy Wright’s family are entitled to know the truth of what happened. In particular, his father, David Wright, is entitled to know what happened to his son. I do not believe that the report gives us that.

There are too many coincidences, too many happenstances, too many things that went wrong all at the same time, all of which contributed to the murder. Many of us are left with more questions than answers in our minds today.

[Mr Paterson]

I am very sorry that the right hon. Gentleman is not happy with the result of this report, after an investigation by a senior judge and his tribunal with its highly respected panel, and with more than 30,000 pages of evidence having been looked at. Obviously, it is also very regrettable that some of the details have not emerged. How the guns got into H block 6 is still not clear. That highlights one of the sad facts about trying to arrive at a system to look at the past: in some cases we just will not get to those final details. This may be one of those cases. After spending £30 million and following six years of investigation by some of the most experienced lawyers in the western world, we have not got to one of the key details: how the guns were smuggled into the H block. As we look ahead, I am afraid that we are going to have to accept that, in respect of some of these past cases, we simply will never know.

Terrorism (Northern Ireland)

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I apologise for not being here to listen to the remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea). I congratulate him on securing this debate, which is on an important topic. Indeed, it is an emotive topic, as we saw recently with the publication of the Saville report into the events of 1972 in Londonderry. That was preceded by the publication of the Eames-Bradley report, which examined how we might deal with the legacy of the past.

There is no doubt that we have no consensus in Northern Ireland—no political consensus and none among the people of Northern Ireland—on how we should deal with that legacy. There is no consensus on how we should come to terms with what has happened; on how to deal with matters such as justice for those who have not yet had the people responsible for the murder of loved ones brought to justice; on how to deal with the continuing hurt, pain and grief and, in many cases, the injuries and disabilities sustained as a result of terrorist violence. Those are big issues, and I know that the Northern Ireland Executive, and particularly the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, have been seeking to come to terms with them and to provide a greater level of support for the victims in Northern Ireland.

I highlight the fact that over the past three years, the Northern Ireland Administration has set aside a substantial amount of money—more than £30 million—to provide practical help and support for the victims of violence in Northern Ireland. That is welcome, but in many respects it merely touches the surface. Looking beyond it, we see that a multiplicity of problems needs to be addressed. Indeed, I am aware that the Northern Ireland Executive is beginning the task of engaging in a comprehensive needs assessment. It will seek to engage with all victims, to consider their needs and hopefully to design and put in place practical support for them, including victims with injuries. Indeed, evidence suggests that victims who suffered injuries during the troubles in Northern Ireland feel much neglected. A group has been formed that is pressing for greater recognition of those thousands of people who suffered serious injury and trauma during the troubles—and they are worthy of that recognition. We also have the legacy of more than 3,000 unsolved murders in Northern Ireland, which needs to be addressed. The Historical Enquiries Team faces the difficult and challenging task of examining and re-examining historical cases of murder in Northern Ireland. I have worked with a number of families who have been engaged with the Historical Enquiries Team, and found that it can be a painful process. Very often, they learn things about what happened to their loved ones that they perhaps were not aware of before. Such investigations can reopen old wounds, but sadly, in most cases, they do not often lead to convictions. Although the team has had some recent successes, there is a legacy of people feeling that they have not had justice.

The other issue is one of recognition of the sacrifice that people have made. I include here those members of the security forces who gave their lives or sustained serious injury in the service of our country; and the armed forces, the Army in particular, who served in Northern Ireland. I was proud to serve in the locally recruited Ulster Defence Regiment, which provided support to the police in Northern Ireland. I know that there are hon. and gallant Members present who have served with the armed forces in Northern Ireland, and we recognise their contribution and sacrifice. One of my saddest moments as a Member of Parliament was attending the final ceremony for the disbandment of the Home Service battalions of the Royal Irish Regiment. Her Majesty the Queen presented them with the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross in recognition of the huge sacrifice that they and the Ulster Defence Regiment before them made during the period of the troubles.

The Royal Ulster Constabulary was awarded the George Cross in recognition of its gallantry and sacrifice. Hundreds of police officers lost their lives in the course of the troubles. Indeed my own family was affected, as were many families, in that way. My cousin, Constable Samuel Donaldson, along with Constable Roy Miller, was the first RUC officer to be murdered by the Provisional IRA. It happened on 12 August 1970 at Crossmaglen, which later became synonymous with the activities of the IRA. That was unfortunate because many good people live in Crossmaglen. After the murder of my cousin, my family received hundreds of cards and letters of sympathy from the community in Crossmaglen, which was horrified by the murder of these two young police officers. The officers, who were serving and protecting the community, were cut down in cold blood by the Provisional IRA.

Sadly, from those two deaths followed many, many others during the troubles as the RUC stood in the gap between terrorism on the one hand and the community on the other. I say without fear of contradiction that both the Army and the police, who sought to serve and protect the people of Northern Ireland, placed themselves in the firing line. It is unfortunate that there are some who seek to mark out the legacy of the Army and police in Northern Ireland by way of controversy. We saw that with the Saville report. On the day that the report was published, the Prime Minister told the Commons that the events were not the legacy of the Army in Northern Ireland, any more than the so-called shoot-to-kill events were the legacy of the RUC in Northern Ireland. The police and the Army acted in a professional way; they put their lives on the line and sought to protect the community. Had they not done that, Northern Ireland would have slipped over the edge into all-out civil war. There would have been anarchy and thousands more would have lost their lives as a result of the terrorist violence.

We must recognise this legacy and seek to find ways in which to deal with it. As my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) said, it is a matter not just for this Government, the Northern Ireland Administration and the people of Northern Ireland, but the Irish Government. The Provisional IRA and other terrorist organisations used the territory of the Irish Republic from which to launch attacks on Northern Ireland. I have been involved in working with some of the families in the Smithwick inquiry, which is examining the events surrounding the murder of the two most senior police officers in Northern Ireland during the course of the troubles. That inquiry, which is ongoing and will begin its public sessions in the autumn, involves the Irish Government. There are allegations of collusion between members of the Garda Siochana—the Irish police—and members of the Provisional IRA in the murder of chief superintendent Harry Breen and superintendent Bob Buchanan. They were brutally murdered on their way home from a joint meeting with their Garda counterparts at Dundalk police station. Such issues must be addressed. What we cannot have, and what we will not countenance, is a one-sided process that constantly puts the Army and the police in the dock and ignores the terrorists. Let me be clear, I refer here to so-called loyalist paramilitaries as well. Their actions must be examined and they must be held to account for what they did. We are not prepared to see millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money being spent on investigating the activities of the police and the Army while minimal attention is paid to the paramilitaries.

We support the work of the Historical Enquiries Team, but it needs to be properly resourced and given the authority that is required to pursue such investigations. We have concerns about further costly inquiries, which is why we believe that the HET represents the best way forward, but it needs to be properly supported and resourced so that it can investigate unsolved crimes and murders that occurred in the course of the troubles. We want to see justice for the victims. They are as entitled to justice and truth as the people of Londonderry are in respect of the events arising from the Saville report. We cannot have a hierarchy of victims in which a small number of people get priority and precedence and millions of pounds for inquiries to investigate murders. Thousands of others do not have the same recognition and support. They often feel that their loved ones have been forgotten and that the events surrounding their murders have been pushed to one side. That must not be allowed to happen.

I know that my hon. Friends have outlined some of the atrocities that are deserving of further inquiry, and they include incidents where there is evidence either of collusion on the part of Irish state authorities or where the Irish Government turned a blind eye and allowed their territory to be used by the Provisional IRA. I can think of one particular incident and it is relevant to the issue of the Saville inquiry because it involved the murder of many members of the Parachute Regiment at a place called Narrow Water, at Warrenpoint in South Down in Northern Ireland. There were 18 soldiers murdered that day. Incidentally, it was the same day that Earl Mountbatten was murdered by the Provisional IRA. In the follow-up investigation to the events of Narrow Water, two members of the Provisional IRA were identified as potentially having been involved in that atrocity. The RUC tried to co-operate with the Garda in bringing those two men to justice, but its efforts were thwarted. Every legal block was put in the way of the police investigation.

I believe that there are issues there that need to be addressed by the Irish Government. Why, in those days, did the Royal Ulster Constabulary not receive the co-operation that it deserved to receive from the Irish police and from the Irish legal authorities? Those are issues that we need to examine.

In conclusion, as I said at the beginning of my speech this is a very emotive issue. We recognise that it is an issue that must be tackled in Northern Ireland, but it must be tackled sensitively. What we will not countenance is the type of “all-singing, all-dancing” commission that was proposed by Eames-Bradley. We do not believe that that is the way forward. I support my colleagues in their contention that the HET should take the lead in investigating unsolved murders; we want to see it take the lead. We want to see adequate resources made available for the HET. We want to see greater recognition of the suffering of the victims. That means looking at their needs and providing them with the support that they need—both the practical support and indeed the financial support that many of them need, as a result of losing in very many cases the main breadwinner in a family.

Mr Chope, I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate and I thank you.