Oral Answers to Questions

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I am happy to look at those individual cases. He can write to me, or I would be happy to meet him.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

Mr Speaker, I could probably ask this question on the back of any question on the Order Paper. Broadband connectivity is very poor in parts of my constituency, which surely flies in the face of the Government’s best efforts to ensure that people who deserve benefits get them and that people who want to get back to work have that opportunity. What do the Government intend to do about the problem to help my constituents?

[Will Quince]

The question is a good one, and we will always look at alternative forms of communication.

Disability Assessment Services

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Westminster Hall

[Gillian Keegan]

Yes, I do. Technology in general is enabling us to put better processes in place. Recording will not be appropriate for some people, but it is important to use technology in the right circumstances.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I declare an interest: my wife is disabled. I am interested in the assessment that takes place when somebody moves from the disability living allowance to PIP. From my constituency surgeries, I have noticed that that the mobility element for DLA is somewhat lower than for PIP. Does the hon. Lady think that that pattern is more widespread throughout the UK? Is there something here that is not right? Leaving out my wife, I have dealt with cases of people who have lost out on the initial assessment. The sentiment about continuing assessment is absolutely correct, and I support that.

[Gillian Keegan]

I am not in a position to see an overall pattern—perhaps the Minister does, because she sees what is going on across the country—but many of us have heard about issues relating to mobility and Motability.

Last week, the Secretary of State announced that people over state pension age will no longer have to go through PIP reassessments. That is part of her ambition to ensure that disabled claimants do not feel like they are on trial. These changes have been rightly welcomed in the press and, I am sure, by many Members in this Chamber.

These improvements are good news for claimants. However, one of the most common times when I receive a request for help from a constituent claiming disability benefits is when they do not agree with the outcome of their assessment. Recent figures from my area—Chichester—show that the overturn rates at tribunal are 71% and 81% for ESA and PIP respectively. It is my understanding that that is largely due to medical evidence not being available in good time, and being available only at tribunal. Those levels are clearly unacceptable. It is very stressful for people to go through the initial assessments, the reassessments and a tribunal. I would be grateful if the Minister could let us know what more work is being done to improve the system. Are there any plans to consider the timescales within which we ask GPs and medical professionals to give information about claimants, to ensure it is in time for assessments?

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I congratulate the hon. Member for Chichester (Gillian Keegan) on securing the debate. Like many other Members, I am sure, I felt compelled to speak because of the number of constituents who have come to me with harrowing stories of their experiences, and with a clear message that improvements to disability assessment services are very much needed.

In my constituency, we have seen a variety of issues recently, including cases of incorrect information being recorded; there have been statements saying that physical assessments were carried out when they were not, and that a constituent could go out alone when the assessor was actually told in the interview that they could not. In one case, the information was so incorrect that it was assumed that the assessment report had been mixed up with that for another case. My constituent Amy was recorded as walking despite being wheelchair-bound, which must surely have been apparent at the assessment. When a complaint was raised, the DWP noted that that could be a “misleading statement”, but worryingly, Capita, which has consistently failed to meet its target for an acceptable standard of assessment, responded that there was no evidence that the statement made by the assessor had been misreported. I find that unbelievable.

Last-minute cancellations are a problem. We have heard from constituents whose assessments were cancelled on the day that they were due to take place. Even worse, in some cases, the constituents were actually at the assessment centre when their appointment was cancelled. Yet perversely, if a constituent is unable to attend their assessment, they are penalised. When one of my constituents rang up two days before her assessment to give notice that she would not be well enough to attend, she was told that it was too late for the assessment to be rescheduled, and that she would be recorded as a no-show. Those are double standards of the highest order.

Constituents who have attended assessments have raised with me the concern that their assessor carried out the assessment very quickly, and did not listen to their answers. Others were concerned that the assessment was not carried out safely. For example, a constituent with a slipped disk was asked to complete the physical part of the assessment without anything to support her, despite informing the assessor that she would need to hold on to something. Why are my constituents being put at risk in that way?

Another major concern is the refusal to conduct home assessments, despite medical evidence that they are necessary. That is a concern shared by organisations such as Macmillan Cancer Support, which has found that home visits can often be difficult to obtain, and that the option of a home visit is not widely communicated.

[Jamie Stone]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point about home visits. Does he agree that the problem is compounded by the fact that some people have to travel very large distances for those assessments? That is an issue facing some of my constituents. It would be so much easier if they could be done at home.

[Justin Madders]

Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman’s constituency must be rather more rural than mine, but for anyone who has a disability, travelling distances of any order is challenge. Home assessments need to be much more widely promoted.

Universal Credit: Managed Migration

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alok Sharma]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind comments. I hope it is clear to colleagues on both sides of the House that my door is open. When colleagues come with individual cases, I do take them up. I am always open and ready to have meetings on individual cases, and I will continue to be ready to do that.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

When universal credit was initially rolled out some time ago, people living in the highlands were the unwitting guinea pigs in this experiment. Now that some of the flaws in universal credit are becoming apparent, is there not a case for financial compensation for these people for all they have undergone?

[Alok Sharma]

As I have said—I am sorry if I have to keep repeating myself—we want to make sure that universal credit works for absolutely everyone. Wherever we sit in the House, we want our welfare system to work for everyone. We will continue to work with stakeholders and others to make sure we get this absolutely right.

Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: Two-child Limit

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) on an interesting speech that combined elegance and passion.

I am a father of three: they enrich my life, and my wife’s life. A point was made in the debate about twins, which struck home with me, because I am the father of twins. I can see what a big difference the order of their birth could make. I have a certain reputation in this place for talking about universal credit, and I have so far concentrated on the rural issue of lack of IT access and perhaps of people trained to use it. I make no apology for always stressing the issue of remoteness, given the constituency that I represent.

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, given that in rural areas across the UK employment can be a challenge, and that 30% of benefit claimants are in work, the policy will disproportionately affect families in rural areas, where depopulation is a huge challenge?

[Jamie Stone]

That is an entirely fair intervention, and I accept it for what it is.

Let me give the example of a family, perhaps living in a remote strath in Caithness, Sutherland or Easter Ross, and consider the problems they would have. The cash, as we know, is limited after the birth of two children. The mum would almost certainly face increased costs for transport—to school or to use the NHS—and for food, because sadly prices get higher the further a place is from Edinburgh and Glasgow. There would be higher costs for heating and delivery. I want to raise with the Minister this afternoon the fact that we pay an extra charge for having some basic things delivered to our homes in the remotest areas. There would be higher costs for the children’s clothes or—let me put it this way—for getting to the charity shop, which is the challenge for many families. Even harsher still is the cost of getting to the food bank—not that I approve in any way of the fact that we have to have food banks in this day and age. It is a concept that was unheard of in my parents’ time in Scotland.

In fairness to the Scottish Government, I am aware of the good work that has been done on the bedroom tax, and I know there is a limit in absolute terms to what the Scottish Government can do. Having been a Member of the Scottish Parliament for some years I recognise that, and it is best to be absolutely straight about it.

I had a happy childhood, and am extremely fortunate to have done so. It was free from anxiety. There is no doubt that anxiety can scar today’s children for the rest of their lives. To quote the hon. Member for Glasgow Central—I hope I do so correctly—the social security safety net should be for everyone. That includes people in my constituency in the remotest parts of the UK, as well as those who live in more central areas. I hope and trust that the Minister will take my points on board. I mean them sincerely, for the sake of the people I represent.

[Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

We now move to the speeches of the three Front-Bench spokesmen—one speaking from the Back Benches, I see, which is fine. We will leave a minute and a half for Alison to have the final word. I call Andy Gray—I mean Neil Gray. I beg your pardon.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Monday 19th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Amber Rudd]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his work with the jobcentre in Crawley to ensure that claimants get the best benefits. We have had some changes from the Budget, as he will be aware, and will bring forward more details of regulations to help to deliver those outcomes as soon as possible.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

T8. May I also welcome the Secretary of State to her post on the Front Bench? In the past I have mentioned the problem of the lack of online access in the remotest parts of my constituency, but in addition there is the problem of people in my constituency who cannot, as we say in the highlands, work a computer. They do not have the skills. What is going to be done to address that issue?

[Amber Rudd]

Yes, it is a very important point and one that we are well aware of. We cannot assume that everybody can, as the hon. Gentleman puts it, work a computer. We have made provision in the arrangements to ensure that people can have access and that job coaches can work with people remotely via telephone and also engage in their communities, perhaps in different places from the jobcentre. However, I will keep a careful eye on this issue to ensure that we are delivering a truly comprehensive service, so that everybody, whether they can work a computer or not, can access it.

Universal Credit

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

I want to focus on the principles behind UC and why it has been brought in, as that is the key to understanding how we can ensure UC works as it was supposed to. Present changes and issues with the roll-out and the detail of implementation are of course important, but they should not take attention away from the core principles of UC and how it transforms lives.

I was in the Chamber in March 2011 when my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) introduced the Welfare Reform Bill in one of the most passionate speeches on addressing poverty that this Chamber has heard. He said at the very beginning of his speech that day that the reform of welfare was needed because, despite the economic growth and job creation between 1992 and 2008, there was a group of working-age people that was effectively left behind.

I remember the situation back in 2010 when the coalition Government were formed: there were too many households who were not being supported into employment; there were complexities with the legacy benefits; there were cliff edges faced when people left benefits and went into employment; and there were cases of intergenerational poverty in this country, with children being raised in households where two or three generations were affected by periods of worklessness. And, of course, we had to do more to change that, and my right hon. Friend was right at that time to pursue a holistic approach to tackling poverty and helping people get back into work. UC was a response to a system where at the peak of the Labour boom there were 3 million people on out-of-work benefits, 1 million of whom did not work a day for many years under a Labour Government because they were caught in a welfare trap and written off. A great many were on incapacity benefit as well, and things had to change.

The principles of UC are clear. It is intended to simplify the benefits system, reduce complexity and support more people into employment and into higher paid employment. UC was needed to help to get people work-ready, and transitioning people on to UC helps to understand and identify the underlying financial difficulties they face.

We have heard from the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) about issues with withdrawal rates and taper changes and what happened in 2015 and 2016. I was in the Department at the time, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green left the Government because of what happened when we fought back and presented the Treasury with distributional analysis showing the impact the cuts would have on households and individuals.

It is important that we now get this change right. I do not believe in scrapping UC at all, but we need the modifications to deliver the life-changing support and the opportunities that the benefit was designed to provide. Yes, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has gone through the process of testing, learning and rectifying the problems, but we must now go back and invest in the right way to modify the changes that happened. We must bring back the choice; Governments have choices and this Government now have the chance to support the principle of making work pay and support independence and dignity in work.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

Will the right hon. Lady give way?

[Priti Patel]

No, I will not. I do not have time.

We must also ensure that we fully provide the ladder of opportunity to give a foothold to people and families who want to work and support them into work, as well as addressing the challenges in our welfare system. The task of this Government and the Treasury is well-versed, and I know that the Minister will not have to cover this point later. We must now ensure that we revert to the principles and purpose of universal credit, to bring back the independence, dignity and value of ensuring that work fully pays.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

I am happy to follow the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms). I agree with much of what he has said and with his constructive suggestions for making this work. That is where I want to start my speech. I still believe that this is the right thing to do. Universal credit is the right sort of benefit system. It replaces a much more complicated system that people did not understand and found really hard to work with, but it is important that we get it right and do not start rolling it out for even greater numbers until we are sure that it will get the right amount of money to the right people at the right time. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s point about the Resolution Foundation’s recommendations, although I am a little surprised that it asked for only a 90% accuracy rate. That implies that we are happy to have 10% of people who roll over to universal credit getting the wrong amount of money on the wrong day. I would hope that we can put in place a much more reliable system than that.

I agree with the Government’s approach on test and learn. I can remember being on the Work and Pensions Committee when the full roll-out was originally planned for 2014, which drifted by a little while ago. I think we are now aiming for a nine-year roll-out. However, it was absolutely right that we did not press ahead and roll this out so fast that we ended up with hundreds of thousands of people taking on huge amounts of debt because they were being given the wrong amount of money. We saw that happening with tax credits and we do not want to repeat it. However, test and learn cannot just be a software thing. It must also be about the design of the system and the way it actually works. If it becomes plainly apparent, as we carry on the roll-out, that things are not right and that people are not getting the amount of money they are entitled to at the right time, let us fix it and remove the rough edges. In that way, we will end up with a far better system, and people will not be in debt when they do not need to be, with all the consequences that that would have.

I support what the Secretary of State has been asking for from the Chancellor. We saw some interesting ideas being leaked yesterday, and I think that most of us in this House would welcome most of them as a great improvement. Let us build on the reform that we put in place a year ago to allow people to keep an extra two weeks’ housing benefit. Let us at least add employment and support allowance to that, to ensure that people do not have a gap in their income right at the start. It is just not right to expect people to live for five weeks without any money if they do not have a redundancy pay cheque or a final pay cheque in the bank. Let us fix that and try to find a smoother transition. That would cost a significant amount, but in the great scheme of things, it would be a tiny fraction of the overall £160 billion a year welfare bill. It would not break the bank, and if that is what we have to do to get this right, let us do it.

[Jamie Stone]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the indifferent broadband coverage in remote constituencies such as mine does not help the roll-out of UC and that we should try to tick that issue off before we go any further?

[Nigel Mills]

That is probably a debate for a different day. Sticking with universal credit and managed migration, as I said to the Employment Minister yesterday when he referred to moving people over, that is exactly what we ought to do, particularly for vulnerable people who may not get the process right. We have all their information. We have all the details we need. Let us move them seamlessly from the old benefit on to the new one. We should not expect them to do that for themselves—that just risks their missing out because they have not opened their post, they do not understand it, or they are too scared to do it. There is no need to add that stress to their lives. Moving them over will not cost anything at all; it is just a far better way of the Government using the system.

Finally, the motivation for UC was to make it absolutely clear that work would pay. That is what the staff in my jobcentres really value. It is a simple system. They can explain how it works and show people that they will always be better off in work. The problem that has arisen from the savings that the previous Chancellor introduced three and a bit years ago is that it is not entirely clear how we can demonstrate to some groups of people that they will always be better off in work—lone parents and second earners are the two cases most often cited—so let us put clarity back in the system. If we want this welfare change, which we all support, to work, the fundamental promise that people will always be better off in work must be made demonstrably clear to them. Let us put money back in and get the work incentives right. That way we will have a system that we can make work.

Disabled People and Economic Growth

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) on securing this debate on an extraordinarily important subject. It is a shame more Members are not here today, but perhaps there are competing things to do. However, we have some of the best here in the Chamber; as Miss Jean Brodie would have said, we can consider ourselves the crème de la crème.

I have a personal interest in this matter, which I make known to the House: my wife has been disabled since 1999, and that has featured large in our lives. As some Members may be aware, once upon a time I was a Member of another place—I do not mean down the Corridor; I mean in Scotland. As my wife was disabled, I quickly realised that the temporary Scottish Parliament at the top of the royal mile was completely unsuitable for anyone who was disabled, which was why I volunteered to serve on the small committee that was given the responsibility of building the new building. We put in place complete disabled access, including in the Chamber of Holyrood itself. That job very nearly cost me my seat at my second election, such was the controversy attached to the Scottish Parliament at the time. But that was then and this is now, and for the record, I must say that I am proud to have been involved in building such a disabled-friendly place.

The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow talked about examples, which are ultra-important. I wish to make two points on that. First, this summer’s May games—one of the northernmost highland games, which the Prince of Wales likes to attend, as Duke of Rothesay, and he will do so again in the summer—will have disabled servicemen taking part in the events for the first time. That is an historic first for the highland games in Scotland and for my part of the world, the far north.

The other example that will stay with me to my dying day involved a former Member of this place, Dame Anne Begg, who graced the Labour Benches for a number of years. I knew Dame Anne because she was in a cross-party group dealing with oil and gas; I was in the Scottish Parliament and she was in Westminster. I will never forget going to visit an oil installation in a fjord in Norway. We were in a semi-open boat with a noisy diesel engine, and Anne was there in her wheelchair. The weather can change very fast in the Atlantic, and in this particular Norwegian fjord, a storm came. The boat was going backwards and forwards, and lashing about. We had to lash Anne’s wheelchair to a thwart to prevent her from going overboard, but such was her courage and good humour that she never blinked once. That is an example of somebody who is disabled who faced adversity in life and yet got on with things. I will never forget that example of somebody who was very brave indeed. Based on those examples, the ambition is there, and I particularly pay tribute to the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) for bringing that point out; it is hugely important.

Today, my wife volunteers for the local museum in my home town, and she is involved in raising money for Marie Curie. The point is that these unpaid involvements enrich her life; I can assure hon. Members that they make everything much more worth while. If we can broaden these things out into employment, we can see the great gift that can be given.

The points that have been made about taxation and benefits are absolutely right. I was intrigued yesterday. I have an Irish son-in-law, who, perhaps not surprisingly, has the name of Paddy. He came by Westminster yesterday evening in search, I think, of a small refreshment in the Strangers Bar. He asked me what I would be talking about today, and I said it would be this issue of disability and using resources. He said that he is mixed up in a textile business in the Republic of Ireland and that there is a Government incentive scheme to encourage businesses such as the one he works in to employ people in the situation we are talking about. That struck me. I did not get into more detail, but I will do in the future. I think we could learn something from the Republic on that. I sincerely hope we can.

The point has been made by the hon. Members for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow and for Hitchin and Harpenden and by others that we are mugs if we do not utilise the skills, ability, ambition and enthusiasm that is out there. Goodness knows, in the next few years, we are going to have to mobilise everything we have in the UK, because it will be an ever more difficult and competitive world. Be it Brexit or be it remain, that will be the reality, and we will have to use every single person we have to do the best we can. People will relish that opportunity—I have absolutely no doubt about that.

I look forward with great interest to hearing what the Minister has to say. I think we are as one in this Chamber. As a not so new Member now—I have been here seven and a bit months, not unlike the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden—I think that what Westminster does best is get on to issues such as this. I am astonished that this issue has not been debated in the Chamber before, but never mind—here we are today. As I said, to quote Jean Brodie again, we are the crème de la crème.

It is as simple as this: there is a bargain to be struck here. Disabled people are offering to keep their half of the bargain, and it is up to the Government—not just the Government, but all of us in society in the UK—to grasp their hand, honour our half of the bargain and make their lives better.

[Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) on securing this important debate.

I am delighted to speak in today’s debate on the role of disabled people in economic growth. Economic growth is built on investment, development and progress but most of all on people. People are the essential building block—manual workers, service workers, foremen or managers, entrepreneurs and innovators, females and males, all ethnicities, and the able bodied and the disabled.

I would like to stress today not only that disabled people should and do play an essential role in economic growth but that the wording of this motion is a little too crude. This is not just about needing disabled people to be in jobs to boost economic growth; most importantly, they deserve the same career opportunities, so this is a question of not just economics but equality.

Only half of working-age people in the UK who are disabled or who have a health condition are in work, while the employment rate for people without disabilities is 80.6%. We must rectify this inequality and ensure that employers see the benefits of diverse workforces and of hiring those who have overcome obstacles. We must empower and assist the disabled, so that they have the confidence and the tools to work on an even playing field.

That is why I fully back the Government’s commitment and strategy to get 1 million more disabled people into employment by 2027. I am delighted that 100,000 more people with disabilities were in work last year than in 2016. Working with employers is key to reaching this target, which is why the Government’s pledge to work with industry, alongside improved mental health training for work coaches, is so important.

Disabled people have overcome adversity and challenge and can often offer workplaces essential skills, such as determination. They also generally stay in roles for longer and have lower rates of absenteeism. However, studies show that, still, only half of employers have reported that they recognise the benefits for their organisation of employing somebody with a disability or health condition.

This is therefore about changing attitudes and cultures, especially in certain sectors. For example, the rate of employment for disabled people in science, technology, engineering and maths-related roles is severely low. The problem is twofold. It is about encouraging disabled people to believe they can do these jobs, but, crucially, it is also about ensuring that the jobs exist, so working with employers is essential.

The Disability Confident scheme, which has been mentioned today in the House, has done great work in this area, helping organisations to improve how they attract, recruit and retain disabled workers. As of 16 November last year, there were 5,359 employers signed up to the scheme, so we need to do work to ensure that more follow. Like many MPs, I am proud to be a Disability Confident employer.

One of the biggest hurdles in encouraging businesses to hire disabled people is the adaptations needed to their offices. Those hurdles are perceived to be high, as a Mencap review recently highlighted. There is also a lack of awareness that the Equality Act 2010 means that employers are under a statutory duty to make reasonable adjustments. I am keen to hear from the Minister about how we plan to challenge these perceptions and this lack of awareness.

Adapting businesses is also important when a staff member has an accident or becomes ill. Creating a suitable and welcoming environment for them to return to is essential. In fact, the Centre for Social Justice “Rethinking Disability at Work” report found that the disability employment gap is partly driven by the large number of disabled people who fall out of employment, with one in 10 disabled people in work falling out each year, compared with only one in 20 in the non-disabled work population. Retention is therefore key. That is why I welcome the proposed sophistication of the fit note scheme, which will enable employers to better understand and support their employees’ needs.

It is important to note that there are Access to Work grants that can pay for special equipment, adaptations or support worker services, and I am delighted that these are now being rolled out to the self-employed. However, we need to raise awareness of them. Access to Work grants have been taken up by 25,000 people on average per year, but the figures have stagnated for the last three years, indicating that we really need to promote awareness. In addition, 65% of the grants given are to people aged over 40, implying that we really need to reach a younger age group.

I have spoken a lot about employers, but it is also crucial to give disabled individuals the confidence and support to apply for jobs. Mind stresses the point that physically disabled people also need emotional and mental health support when re-entering the workplace, and it is important not to forget that physical disabilities and mental health challenges are not mutually exclusive.

[Jamie Stone]

Does the hon. Lady agree that a disabled person in rewarding employment could be encouraged or paid to take time to act as a mentor to people who might follow in his or her footsteps, to show how it can be done?

[Michelle Donelan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that excellent point, and I completely agree. Encouraging, inspiring and being role models for other people, and acting as mentors, is a wonderful idea, which we should pursue to encourage more people to have the self-belief and determination to progress their dreams and explore opportunities.

We should not treat physical disabilities and mental disabilities in silos; we need to treat them together to develop the best outcomes. I am delighted that the key focus of the White Paper, “The Future of work, health and disability”, includes that area and the roll-out of personal support packages with the recruitment of 200 community partners, 300 disability employment advisers, 100 small employers advisers and an extra 1,000 places in mental support services.

In conclusion, over the past two years, the disability employment gap has reduced by 1.9%, so we are on the right track. Finding work for an additional 1% of eligible employment and support allowance claimants in 2018-19 would save £240 million and provide a boost to the economy of £260 million. Therefore, getting more people with disabilities into jobs is essential. It would obviously be of great financial benefit to our country, but the main benefit would be to the disabled people themselves, and, in turn, it would make our society more equal. I shall end where I began and stress that it is an issue not just of economics, but of equality.

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

As another Member with a four-barrelled constituency name, I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) on bringing this debate to the Chamber. I commend the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for also attempting to pronounce her constituency; he did very well indeed. We heard from my hon. Friend a speech that was rich in detail, understanding and empathy. She really, truly understands the subject. I fully commend her for this very positively titled debate about the role of disabled people in economic growth. It is somewhat scandalous that we have not had the opportunity to debate this before, but that wrong has been righted today.

We in the SNP know that disabled people continue to make a fantastic contribution to our economy. All the words that we have heard here today show our empathy and the joint approach that we are taking to these issues, but comments that come from the Government themselves can do a lot of harm. Our approach to disabled people—the approach we have taken today—is in stark contrast to the UK Government’s Chancellor, who recently said that he thinks that disabled people are reducing productivity.

I would like to quote my hon. Friend, not from her speech today but from an excellent article she wrote recently:

“The answer is simple, invest in improving the pathways to work. Invest in disabled entrepreneurs, improve reasonable adjustment guidelines and encourage businesses to diversify their workforce. Create incentives rather than enforce sanctions. If the £108 million spent by the Government to deny disabled people the benefits they are entitled to was redirected to creating an apprenticeship schemes, entrepreneurship and training opportunities for example, then perhaps the narrative of people with disabilities could change.”

Those are very wise words.

I am most grateful to Scope for the briefing that it has sent along for this debate. Scope says of the Chancellor’s comments:

“We found the Chancellor’s statements before the Treasury Select Committee…on the negative impact of disabled employees on UK productivity levels to be entirely untrue and unacceptable.”

It underlines a fact that was brought out by my hon. Friend, saying:

“In fact, a 10-percentage point rise in the employment rate amongst disabled people would increase GDP by £45 billion by 2030 and result in a £12 billion gain to the Exchequer.”

I hope that the Minister, who I know to be a thoughtful person, will reflect on the Chancellor’s remarks and take the opportunity today to distance herself from them.

There is a real opportunity to make a positive impact on tackling the disability employment gap in the economy, delivering the reforms needed to support more people to enter, remain and advance in work, but progress up until now has been slow. Government and employers need to do more if we are to harness the economic benefits that an increased disabled employment rate will bring. Tackling the disability employment gap would mean, as I have said, that economic growth and productivity would increase.

Employing disabled people is an opportunity for employers, delivering significant benefits to business and the economy. It is important to underline the calls from the all-party parliamentary group on disability. They are all relevant, but I mention especially tailored and targeted support for self-employed disabled people from such bodies as the Business Bank, funding for reasonable adjustments for disabled recipients of tech start-up support from Innovate UK, and bringing forward requirements for sectors to plan for recruitment.

It is also vital to recognise the additional challenges that are faced by disabled people. My hon. Friend talked about the high numbers of applications required simply to get a job interview, let alone a job. She said that we cannot afford to sit and wait. Throughout this debate, we have heard many people agreeing on the need for action, and that is what disabled people now want to see.

[Jamie Stone]

The hon. Gentleman rightly mentions the challenges and difficulties that disabled people face. One of those, depending on the form of disability, is that the fatigue element as the day progresses can be quite critical to the person. It would be best if employment opportunities could be tailored with specific reference to this fatigue, which can kick in after two or three hours of concentrated work.

[Drew Hendry]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. It is important to take into account the size and scale of the challenges people face, to make sure we are able to take full advantage.

As my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow said, the UK already has a skills shortage, and the Brexit exodus of skilled labour means that the opportunity of training and apprenticeships must be embraced. As we have heard, the Government at the moment are not going far enough. Specialist advice services on self-employment are required, and we need to avoid stereotypes in these debates and the action that follows.

The additional challenges for disabled people also come down to hard cash and the extra costs that they have to cope with. New research from Scope shows that on average, disabled people have to find an additional £750 per month related to their condition, on top of any social security payments designed to meet those costs. The financial penalty locks disabled people out of being able to make a positive contribution to the economy. They need practical help, and the Government can help now. For example, the Government can help with motability, an issue that my hon. Friend is keen to bring up. Many people have seen their ability to move around or take part in employment and the economy hampered by motability issues.

It also comes down to the issue of PIP assessments. I was interested to hear from the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) and agree with him that more money should be spent on disability payments. There should be more social security to support disabled people, particularly given their disadvantage. The recent Work and Pensions Committee report on claimant experiences of PIP and ESA assessments presented clear evidence that the assessments are failing a substantial minority of claimants, with claimant stories highlighting clear errors made in assessments, crucial information being omitted and assessors lacking knowledge and expertise. It is not just about putting more money into the system; it is about making the system work for disabled people, which too often it does not at the moment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Newton]

I will not give way. I have been generous in giving way, and I will not indulge the hon. Gentleman any more in pursuing things that he has misrepresented and quoted out of context.

Let me return to the spirit of the debate, which the hon. Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow set so well. The House came together to speak to disabled people outside the Chamber, to show how much we value them and to say how much more we want to do to enable them to play their part in society and to enable employers to take people on. I will return to the tone so ably set by the hon. Lady. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will respect his colleague and the tone that she set.

Last week, I visited North Devon District Hospital with the excellent local Member of Parliament. We met some young people who are doing really valued jobs in the hospital wards with patients and in vital support services, such as the engineering department. All those excellent young people had been supported by their local college and by Pluss through a Government-funded scheme. They were supported through work experience and placements in the hospital. The programme has been working for some five years. All the young people have learning disabilities, but their employers told me how valued they are. They were being employed not as an act of charity, but because of who they were.

I have the privilege, as Minister for Disabled People, to meet disabled people every week who do extraordinarily good work in every sort of workplace across the country. Just this morning, I was at Channel 4, which kindly hosted the first anniversary of our sector champions. Each sector champion is a leader in their industry and is working to improve access for disabled people to their industry, from financial services to retail, tourism, media and transport. Each sector leader is an inspirational leader in their field, driving real change in access for disabled people. They are doing that not just because it is the right thing to do, but because it makes good business sense.

There are an estimated 13 million disabled people in our country. Each year they spend an estimated £250 billion —the purple pound—so if businesses are not accessible they are missing out on a great deal of business. Accessibility, as Members have said, does not have to be expensive. Our sector champions are sharing best practice and information, so that more people are confident about employing disabled people. Disabled people are making huge contributions not only as consumers, but, as we have heard today, in all aspects of our society, including employment.

The Government are building a Britain fit for a future where no one is left behind. We have been very clear that we want our economy to harness the skills, talents and contributions of every person in society. We have made significant progress—there are now 600,000 more disabled people in work than there were four years ago—but we want to go further and faster. At the moment, even though our labour market is the strongest it has been for many years, with employment rates at record highs, we know that only half of all disabled people who would like to work are in work. New analysis shows that, over the course of a year, disabled people are twice as likely to fall out of work and almost three times less likely to move into work compared with non-disabled people. That is simply not acceptable.

[Jamie Stone]

Apropos of what the Minister has just said, does she agree that being disabled in a very remote area, such as my constituency, means that travelling to work poses very special and difficult challenges? The Government will have to think very carefully about that, so that my constituents are not disadvantaged.

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Gentleman makes a really good point. I represent a constituency in Cornwall, so I completely empathise with the issue he raises. Access to work funding is available, including for transport to enable people to get to their place of employment. It is also very important that local enterprise partnerships work with local authorities to look at what more can be done to join up community transport with public transport. In areas such as the ones we represent, public transport is not as good a service as it is in urban areas, so there is more work to be done.

With more than one in six people of working age reporting a disability, it is really important that we do everything we can to make sure that their talents do not go to waste. That is why we have an urgent and comprehensive set of plans and actions. For example, we have a personal support package, some £330 million of funding, to arrange new interventions and initiatives for those in the WRAG, so that they can have tailor-made personal support to enable them to take the steps to work. We have already recruited over 300 additional disability employment advisers, bringing special advice and support into the jobcentre. We have begun introducing 200 new community partners who are able to share their lived experience of disability across our jobcentre network.

Disability Confident Scheme

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Luke Graham) on securing this debate. Before I go any further, I wish to declare an interest. My wife is disabled and I think I should put that on the record. Unfortunately, it is a sad fact that the incidence of multiple sclerosis—MS—becomes more prevalent the further north we travel within the UK. My remote constituency therefore has one of the highest levels and so the issue is of enormous interest.

I have listened to the debate thus far with the greatest of interest. The experiences of the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) are instructive. The issue is about getting the disabled back to work. It is about giving the disabled dignity, quality of life and self-esteem. Whatever side right hon. and hon. Members were on in the Brexit debate, the fact is that as the UK goes into new waters we will have to maximise and utilise our workforce like never before. We will have to use every bit of brainpower and every bit of skill we have, and that links into this debate.

The tone of the debate is right because it is not about the disabled, but about employers. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, there is an issue with getting small employers to take up the use of the disabled. The scheme is a laudable UK-wide initiative, but there is a Scottish dimension. I do not want to denigrate the Scottish Government, but co-ordinating with the Scottish Government, which I am sure happens at the moment, can only be a good thing. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of possibilities. Is the enterprise network in Scotland fully engaged? Perhaps it is, but there is a useful way forward there.

The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) hinted at the idea of big business mentoring small businesses. That sort of expertise and knowledge can be passed on. The Government may have to enable that via enterprise agencies or whatever, but it would be useful. We need to publicise the benefits of the scheme. We need stuff in the media and on the television about how good it is. Mention was made about whether firms will stay engaged and move up the levels, and that is one way of ensuring that that happens.

What is great about today’s debate is the fact that no one can take anything away from the fundamental decency of the scheme. All parties recognise that; it is a good scheme and is well intentioned. It helps those who most need help, and I appreciate that. That is why we are singing from the same hymn sheet today, and why it is a pleasure to take part in the debate. Progressing the scheme can only be good for everyone in the UK, particularly in the slightly uncertain times ahead, as I have said. We have to maximise our potential.

Universal Credit: Private Rented Sector

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. Normally, I would talk about the differences in my constituency—I might go on about it being vast, remote and so on—but my constituency faces absolutely the same issue as the rest of the UK. For example, I had a conversation with a private landlord just the other day who owns quite a lot of property. I suggested to him that he might like to give accommodation to people caught in this trap, and he said, “Oh, no, Jamie. I’m running a business. I’m not a charity. I can’t take these risks. I wouldn’t get the rent paid. That’s for the council to deal with.” That puts in a nutshell the problem that we face of private landlords not wishing to engage. It is true, and it is out there.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) mentioned, there is a lot of housing out there that we could access. It is absolutely true. Members for any constituency can think of property currently lying empty above shops in town centres. If the right inducements were offered to private landlords, that property could be brought back into the housing market.

For example, one thing that used to work in Scotland was the specific targeting of improvement grants at below-standard or empty properties, which encouraged landlords to invest using the grants and then make the property available. That worked in the past, and could indeed work in future. As Members have said, it is about encouraging private landlords to engage and offering inducements to make it worth their while, so that they do not see it as the difference between running a charity and running a business.

The man to whom I spoke said, “It’s for the council to deal with,” but as we have heard from other Members, councils are completely stretched. If we consider the amount of housing debt that councils must service and the huge chunk that it takes out of the rents coming in, we can see the trap that they are caught in. It is a point for another place and another debate, but the existence of housing debt among local authorities across the UK is a big problem and a millstone around their necks. As we have heard, the six counties of Northern Ireland are addressing the situation, and it works over there. That seems to be a good example to us all. If we are smart, we will look at how they are doing it, carbon copy it and do the same thing ourselves.

Somebody who is no longer with us either in this place or in this world cast some doubt on what society was. It seems to me that we believe that society as a concept has a role. The idea of direct payments to private landlords for the most vulnerable people is absolutely in keeping with the idea of responsible society. My hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), who has left us now, mentioned that part of the Northern Irish deal was looking after those with disabilities, mental health problems and so on. That seems to me to be exactly what society is about: looking after the most vulnerable, because it is part of our collective responsibility as good human beings.

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) on securing this important debate. It is vital that universal credit failures and the opportunities to fix them are highlighted to the Government at every opportunity, in the hope that they might listen.

The hon. Gentleman spoke eloquently about the problems with payments to claimants, which we raised with the UK Government when the Highland Council was a pilot area in 2013. [Interruption.] I hear my former council colleague, the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone), agreeing from a sedentary position. This is a cross-party issue, which I will come back to later. The hon. Member for Eastbourne also spoke about the problem with ideologues. I agree that there has been a continued failure to listen. I hope that that will change and that we will get a more positive response from the Minister about actions that could be taken. I will give some examples later on.

[Jamie Stone]

I return to my vast and remote mode. One of the warnings that the hon. Gentleman and I and others put to the Government was that the sheer rurality, distance and sparsity of population would present a special challenge when trying to get private landlords to let property.

[Drew Hendry]

I agree.

The hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Tracy Brabin) spoke eloquently about the issues that she has witnessed. She talked about universal credit being rolled out, glitches and all. I would go further—we are seeing more than glitches in the roll-out of universal credit. I have witnessed it for nearly five years. These are systemic issues. She mentioned that no child should have to experience these effects, which is absolutely right. This is about the people and their families who are affected in their homes. That hits home the hardest when people come to us with the personal stories of suffering they are enduring. That is when we understand why the Government have to listen and do something about it.

The hon. Lady also talked about the pressures on housing stock and the need to support the private rented sector, saying that 66% of private renters have no savings. That is true and is reflected in my experience, albeit anecdotally. People do not have the ability to inject their own cash into the system because they do not have any cash—it does not exist.

The hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) mentioned that there are problems that need to be fixed. I welcome the fact that we are hearing that around the Chamber. There is a consensus that these serious issues are hurting people.

The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross talked about rent arrears for councils. Again, I refer to what happened in the Highland Council as a result of this problem.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) has not yet seen the roll-out in her constituency but is aware that a cold wind is coming. Those of us who have experienced it in our constituencies have seen the devastation that it leaves in its wake.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made an important point about the price differential between council housing association and private lettings. He asked who pays the difference. If, as we heard earlier, most people do not have private income to fall back on, who does pay the difference? He also made a telling point about the decrease in the already low number of private landlords willing to rent to universal credit claimants, which is backed up in many other pieces of evidence from around the nations of the UK.

Since Inverness was chosen in 2013 as a pilot area for universal credit, we have lived with the problems of a highly dysfunctional system. Originally, the Highland Council engaged with great hope. There was and remains support for simplifying the social security regime. There were too many benefits in the past and it was too confusing. In local and national politics of all colours, people got behind the idea of a system with a lot less bureaucracy and hassle for claimants. If only that had been the outcome. Instead, universal credit in its current form has gradually shown itself to be a failure. Worse, its continued roll-out has had a devastating impact on claimants—not just the unemployed, but working people, single parents, the disabled and even the dying—particularly through the toxic legacy of debt and rent arrears.

The hon. Member for Eastbourne described universal credit as a car crash. It is, and its corrosive effect is not restricted to claimants. Landlords in both the public and the private sector feel a knock-on effect, which squeezes incomes, reduces the supply of rented properties for claimants and chokes investment in new building. We in the Scottish National party have called continuously for the roll-out to be halted and fixed. Like those in Northern Ireland, we will use the very limited powers we have to try to mitigate the impact, as we have done with other matters over the past few years, and inject a little fairness and dignity into the system. However, it remains almost entirely a UK-reserved issue and needs to be dealt with.

I have been a noisy witness in the nearly five years since the pilot, when I was leader of the Highland Council. We have tried every approach to get the Tory Government to listen. I was joined by the political voices on the council—regardless of political colour, if any—to highlight the misery that was gradually unfolding before our eyes. We set out the alternatives, asked for changes and relayed the experiences, the frustrations and the inevitable wider impact that the roll-out would have if it was continued without fixing the problems, yet our voices were not listened to, and now we are seeing the pattern repeating itself wherever universal credit is deployed.

The hon. Member for Eastbourne mentioned the public sector. As a result of universal credit, the Highland Council has seen rent arrears rocketing to around £2 million —a signal of the misery, but also a noose around the neck of investment in housing. Vital resources are being drained from the council as it picks up the cost of the universal credit failure.

According to a recent report by the Residential Landlords Association, universal credit is now the main reason for private sector landlords seeking to evict tenants. We have heard a lot of statistics this morning, but 29% of landlords have evicted a tenant for universal credit rent arrears and now only 13% of landlords say that they are willing to rent to universal credit claimants at all. According to the RLA, more than 73% of landlords are unlikely to rent homes to someone claiming universal credit, because they are worried that they will not be able to pay.

The Scottish Federation of Housing Associations says that those problems are putting more pressure on public housing; that the administration of universal credit falls short of what its own service standard should be; and that the schedules that associations receive are beset with errors. The federation’s survey found that the standard of communications between the DWP and landlords was erratic, and made worse by the absence of implicit consent in the universal credit full service roll-out. Arrears are much higher among people on universal credit. The federation says that the shortcomings need to be fixed and that a pause is therefore required.

The DWP has not allowed implicit consent, except through MPs. That hamstrings organisations such as citizens advice bureaux and housing associations, meaning that they cannot effectively help claimants to get their entitlements to retain tenancies. The reliance on explicit consent is impractical, especially in rural areas.

There is a growing worry that the design and the benefits of universal credit are not fit for purpose. It should be the objective of any good enterprise, especially a Government, to listen to the experiences of people affected, especially those delivering a service and those who have been asked to partner and make the required adjustments, but neither I nor anybody else in the highlands have witnessed such a willingness to adapt. The problem has spread to other areas. Landlord after landlord, housing association after housing association, council after council, support group after support group and charity after charity have echoed the calls we have made. Every day, new and more troubling examples of hardship and suffering are exposed. Debt and rent arrears mean long-term damage and lasting harm to communities.

Universal credit, in its current form, is designed to create debt by default—it is constructed that way. What kind of Government create the situation where people and families are turned into debtors, with no hope of escape other than eviction, bankruptcy or both? As the hon. Member for Eastbourne pointed out, some welcome changes were made by the Chancellor in his Budget. However, the Chancellor said in his November Budget speech that he wanted to avoid debt for the Government

“not for some ideological reason but because excessive debt undermines our economic security, leaving us vulnerable”—[Official Report, 22 November 2017; Vol. 631, c. 1048.]

He went on to talk about vulnerability to financial shocks. Well, people are facing financial shocks now because of the shambolic handling of universal credit. It should be halted; the messages should be taken on board; and it should be fixed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jamie Stone Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

I could not have put it better myself. There are 300,000 fewer working-age adults in absolute poverty now than in 2010. As my hon. Friend says, we are making sure that work pays through the national living wage and lower taxes. The lowest earners have seen their wages grow by almost 7 percentage points above inflation over the past two years.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

On behalf of my party, may I add my condolences to those already expressed in this Chamber? I am sure that all our hearts go out to Mr Deputy Speaker’s family.

One of the biggest problems facing in-work households living in poverty is fuel poverty. Altnaharra, which is in the middle of my vast constituency, is the coldest place in the UK every year, so fuel poverty is a colossal problem for my constituents. Will the Minister have meetings with the Scottish Government to take forward ways of tackling this terrible problem, particularly in the remotest and coldest parts of the UK?

[Caroline Dinenage]

I associate myself with the hon. Gentleman’s comments about Mr Deputy Speaker.

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about fuel poverty. The Government have been doing so much to ensure that people are aware that they can cut down on household energy bills by switching, and we have been making it easier for people to switch. We also know that the Scottish Government have devolved powers to support people more with their benefits, if that is what they decide to do, and they are free to develop their own approaches to addressing poverty.