Aviation Industry

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. A lot of people are trying to take part, so I am afraid we will have to start with a four-minute limit. We should probably avoid interventions otherwise some people will not get in.

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[Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) on securing the debate. It is good to see the Minister in his place; he visited Southampton airport within days of becoming the Minister, for which we are grateful. I will focus predominantly on Southampton airport this afternoon.

The pandemic has dealt the aviation sector a huge blow —Southampton airport, in my constituency, in particular. With airports predicted to lose around £4 billion by the end of 2020, and with possibly 20,000 jobs under threat, it is clear that a number of things need to be done urgently to support the sector. I want to raise two points in the short time that I have.

First, as has been discussed, we need a proper airport testing regime. The 14-day quarantine rules are inflexible and the process of setting up an airport testing regime is too slow. Airports are willing, but the speed of the Government response has hampered progress, and the delay in the committee’s reporting is regrettable. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell said, advice now needs to be re-examined to see how we can get that regime set up as quickly as possible, to unlock the industry.

Southampton airport has its own unique set of circumstances. With the collapse of Flybe, which represented 94% of all flights, and an application for a runway extension of 164 metres to allow larger planes to land, Southampton airport is now in a fight for survival. That situation could be exacerbated because any application, if refused, could take 18 months to appeal and any application, if successful, could be subject to judicial review.

The Minister and I have spoken about this before, but it seems bizarre to me that I can receive letters from the Cabinet Office for numerous special development orders being awarded for Brexit preparedness, but special development orders are not forthcoming or being examined by the Department for Transport or the Cabinet Office for a major regional airport like Southampton. I would ask the Minister to look for further advice on that as time goes on.

That brings me to my second and final point. I know that this is a Treasury issue and I know that the Minister is sitting on the Front Bench, but I would reinforce many of the comments made by other hon. Members: airports such as Southampton and Exeter, which are operating at 10% of the capacity of this time last year with the same running costs, are still paying the same business rates to local authorities and the Government while they are not operating at full capacity.

I really hope that the Minister will raise with the Treasury the prospect of extending the business rate relief that has been made available in the devolved Administrations. That would show some fairness in the industry and make a vital difference, going forward. Southampton is paying £1.5 million a year in business rates and it has not had that relief. For an airport that is fighting for survival, taking that figure off the balance sheet would be appreciated.

We have all acknowledged that the aviation industry is facing a fight, nowhere more than in Southampton. I am asking the Minister to speed up the support around testing and business rate relief to the industry, so that airports around the country such as Southampton can survive, and we can have a vibrant regional airport offer when the pandemic finishes.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

I am afraid we are still running out of time, so for the next speaker I will have to reduce the time limit to three minutes.

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[Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. It is normal to thank the Member who secured the debate, but I have to apologise to the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) instead. When he was Secretary of State for Transport, I asked him on the Floor of the House what first attracted him to build a high-speed line from his home in the south-east of England to his season ticket seat at his beloved Old Trafford in Manchester. That is the last time I will be flippant today.

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing this much-needed debate. It was entitled “Aviation Industry”, but that is the last thing we have talked about—we have talked about the pandemic. I would love to discuss how the sector could evolve to honour our commitments to the Paris agreement; to investigate the scope for even more highly skilled, highly unionised jobs; to discuss airspace modernisation, which is needed in this country; and to talk about how Britain can continue to be a leader of nations. Frankly, there will be no aviation sector in the UK if the Government do not get a grip of the pandemic and provide the appropriate and necessary support that the business needs.

As has been pointed out, the UK is already a world-class leader in aviation. The Prime Minister wants to look for new world-class industries—that is great, but my advice would be to protect the ones we have first. During the first four months of the pandemic, there were 99% fewer passengers. The current lockdown measures mean that, again, many airports are experiencing zero scheduled passenger arrivals or departures. Many hon. Members have defended their airports today. If airports are not turning over a million passengers, they are not really making a profit, so national infrastructure could be wiped out over the next few months if we do not do something.

Before the introduction of the second lockdown, UK airports were already projected to lose at least £4 billion by the end of the year. There will clearly be consequences such as shorter operating hours, fewer routes, long-term job losses and the risk that some airports may close their doors for good. UK aviation has now faced nine months of losses. While the rest of the economy began to open during the summer and early autumn, international quarantine measures prevented air travel from reopening and destroyed consumer confidence in flying.

Decisions such as letting all those people in in the first place, then introducing a global travel ban, and now the hammer of quarantine are killing the industry. The Department for Transport has to talk to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has to talk to the Department for Transport. They both have to talk to the Home Office at the same time. We need a co-ordinated approach from the Government.

Emerging from the most drastic and sustained reduction in passenger numbers that the aviation system has ever seen, UK airports are in a critically poor state to perform their role as enablers of growth and prosperity. A few weeks ago, there was a story about geological activity in another Icelandic volcano. A decade ago, the ash cloud shutdown was over in less than a week and cost the sector more than £1 billion. A new eruption would not do anywhere near the lasting damage that the Government are currently doing by not intervening in the aviation sector.

Aviation sustains 1.6 million jobs around the country. The International Air Transport Association tells us that 300,000 jobs are at imminent risk. The biggest impact of the failing industry will be in local airport communities such as Hounslow, Luton, Crawley, Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds—so much for the levelling-up agenda in our country. Those communities have grown dependent on their airports, which drive much of the local economy. Heathrow is famously the biggest business rates payer in Europe. As has been pointed out, in England and Wales, the Government have refused to give the resources and business rates relief to airports bleeding cash, as has happened in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The sector brings £22 billion a year into the economy and is a critical part of its fabric. We have all seen the impact of cuts and what they have meant for staff, with some 4,500 jobs lost at easyJet; bases closing at Newcastle, Stansted and Southend; 12,000 job losses at British Airways; 3,000 jobs lost at Ryanair; 4,500 jobs lost at Virgin Atlantic; and more job losses at Heathrow, Manchester, Gatwick, Stansted and our smaller regional airports. The country cannot get back to economic health if we erode the foundations of our economy.

It appears that everybody is calling for a sector deal for aviation. It was not that long ago that the Chancellor reflected that the Government would have to make such an intervention. We are led to believe that there was a sectoral deal ready. I have also asked the Minister about that at the Dispatch Box. Where is the plan that we are all expecting?

This has been a terrific debate and I pay tribute to Members who have participated. The hon. Member for South Antrim (Paul Girvan) spoke eloquently about regional connectivity and the importance of airways to Northern Ireland. I disagree on everything politically with the hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith), except aviation and the respective Chagossian communities that serve our airports, which is Manchester in my constituency.

I could not agree more with the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), because I spend most of my holidays there. The sooner we get connectivity up and running, the better for me and my wife. As the hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) pointed out, the aerospace sector in Bristol is dependent on getting aviation running. There were Members who supported Heathrow. My hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) made an eloquent speech. The hon. Member for Eastleigh (Paul Holmes) defended Southampton airport.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) made a really good political point. He knows that my politics is about human dignity. We undermine people’s human dignity when we cut their terms and conditions in the face of a pandemic, when they have gone over and above to help keep that industry going. The hon. Member for East Devon (Simon Jupp) made such a good point: how come Tesco gets rates reductions but our airports do not?

My hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen), who continually makes good speeches, stood up for her constituency airport. My hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) and the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) asked where the plan was. We are eight months in and we need that leadership. The hon. Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti) talked about Birmingham airport and defended it excellently. The Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), has been a clarion voice in standing up for the industry.

The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands) said that we are probably now going to listen to the Minister give a list of business loans. Sir Edward, you will get this reference. It will be like a litany of saints, a beatification, on a Roman balcony. There will be one after the after, but what we do not need is lists. We need leadership and we need it now.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Thank you for mentioning everybody who spoke in the debate. That does not often happen in wind-ups and it is rather a good habit.

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[Robert Courts]

I will in a moment. I want to inform everybody that the taskforce will report back to the Prime Minister very soon.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Can you give some time for the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) to sum up?

[Mike Kane]

I withdraw my request to intervene.

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[Chris Grayling]

I applaud all the contributions to the debate from Members from all parts of the House, and I hope that our comments are listened to more widely than simply in this room. I do not seek to challenge the Minister. He is new to his job, and he faces some of the same challenges as others in similar positions in Departments across Government. These are not decisions that are being taken in the Department for Transport, but there is an expectation in this room that action will come more quickly than the official Government line has suggested.

I do not understand why a 72-hour test prior to departure, coupled with a check-up test on arrival in the UK, represents a greater risk than the 14-day quarantine. Given the urgency of the situation that the aviation sector faces, I do not really understand why the global taskforce has not reported already. I hope it will be understood clearly elsewhere in Government that that must happen, and it must happen now.

However, those are not things that I level at the Minister. He has been a great champion of the sector, and I know he will be a very effective aviation Minister. I know that he will do everything he can to unlock the challenges that the industry faces and put it back on a path to recovery. The message from everyone in this room to the Government is this: we cannot afford to let the sector carry on dying on its feet. Every action possible must be taken across Government to enable the industry to recover. Whether we are a former Minister, a Select Committee Chair or member, or an Opposition spokesperson, we will all be watching carefully. This will not be the last time we raise the issue, if the problem is not solved.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

I suspend the sitting for two minutes to allow for safe exit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Maclean]

I join the hon. Gentleman in the comments he has made, and Conservative Members, too, pay our tribute to those key workers—those bus workers—who have played a vital part in keeping goods, services and passengers moving around the country. We want to thank them from the bottom of our hearts for their service. We work closely with the Department of Health and Social Care to ensure that they are kept safe throughout the pandemic. As bus services start to recover, we are working closely on a bus recovery and restart package, as well as the £5 billion we have pledged to put in to keep bus services on a sustainable footing for the long term.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

If he will introduce a direct service between Cleethorpes and London through Market Rasen.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Andrew Stephenson)]

I recognise and pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s campaign. He has raised this issue with me on a number of occasions. London North Eastern Railway and Network Rail continue to assess how the service could operate.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

I apologise to the Minister for banging on about this, and so do my hon. Friends the Members for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) and for Great Grimsby (Lia Nici), but we are talking about a catchment area of 100,000 people with no direct train to London. LNER, which we own, is prepared to give us our direct train for just £1 million, which compares with the £80 billion-plus we are spending on HS2. So we beg the Minister to do this for Lincolnshire, and we promise that if he gives us our train, we will make him an honorary yellowbelly.

[Andrew Stephenson]

That would indeed be a great honour. Before a final decision can be taken, we need to review a business case from LNER. Sadly, some of the surveys have been delayed because of coronavirus, but they will be taking place later this summer. I am happy to commit to writing to my right hon. Friend setting out the schedule for that work, and to keeping him and his colleagues updated.

Oral Answers to Questions

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson]

I start by welcoming the shadow Secretary of State to his position. It continues to be Public Health England advice that face masks are not necessary outside clinical settings or where Health and Safety Executive employer risk assessments suggest that it would be necessary to protect against non-covid-19 risks. However, workers should refer to the guidance, which I mentioned, when considering whether wearing a face covering would be appropriate and they should consider using a face covering when social distancing is not possible.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

What recent discussions his Department has had with LNER on a direct rail service between Grimsby and London.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Andrew Stephenson) [V]]

Recent analysis by LNER indicates that such a service could be viable and the Department is exploring this further.

[Mr Speaker]

We now go, with audio only, to Sir Edward.

[Sir Edward Leigh [V]]

Mr Speaker, I am sorry that you do not have a picture because the broadband in rural Lincolnshire is so bad. That is why it is even more important that we get our through train from Grimsby and Cleethorpes down to London, which we have been promised again and again. It is a huge catchment area. All the Government have to do is to kick-start this project. Given that they are spending £100 billion on HS2, if they just give us £1 million, LNER will give us the through train. Will the Government fulfil their promises and kick-start the through train to London from Grimsby and Cleethorpes?

[Andrew Stephenson]

My right hon. Friend has lobbied me on this several times already. I know that the rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), is looking very closely at what my right hon. Friend says, and hopefully he may have some good news in due course.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill: Revival

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Carry-over motion & Bill reintroduced & Bill reintroduced: House of Commons & motion to revive Bill: House of Commons
Monday 2nd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson]

Thank you for that guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I can, however, assure my hon. Friend, who is a doughty champion of the Brigg and Goole constituency, that 98% of businesses involved in HS2 are British, and approximately 70% of the contracts already awarded are going to small and medium-sized enterprises. I am sure he will continue to champion the businesses in his constituency to ensure that they get the maximum benefit from this scheme.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

On a procedural point, my hon. Friend will be aware that there are some experienced politicians who could use various tactics to delay this measure. I would not like to join those people. Can I just mention, though, that if we are spending £100 billion on this, my constituents are very keen on the Government giving £1 million only to London North Eastern Railway for our through train to Grimsby and Cleethorpes via Market Rasen? I would very much hope that the Minister, in terms of procedure and ensuring a smooth passage and support for this measure, could perhaps give a gentle green light to my through train for just £1 million.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. No, the right hon. Gentleman cannot talk about Grimsby. I call the Minister.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Report stage & 3rd reading & 3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 15th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Rachael Maskell]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point and I will return to it shortly.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Rachael Maskell]

Not at this time—I am going to move on.

As raised in Committee, there is a major issue with compensation for those who rent. For example, a tenant farmer who works on the land may be moved and have to work away from their farm. People who rent privately consistently miss out when infrastructure projects force them out of their homes or away from their businesses. We believe that they must receive compensation. The issue was raised at the petition stage of the Bill and it would be right to respond today. The new clause would enable that to happen when the statutory instrument is laid.

Let me briefly move on to new clause 5. I am looking forward to the contribution from the hon. Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach), and I confirm that Labour supports her new clause. There has been a lot of learning around non-disclosure agreements, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis) alluded to. I know from my time as a trade union official, and from my time on the working party on bullying and sexual misconduct procedures here, that these agreements are used to see that commercially sensitive information is not shared with external parties, but they are also used around failures of management, and bullying would be one such example.

If the culture is wrong, it is not right to put money into it, and the management should be held to account. My hon. Friend said that 270-plus non-disclosure agreements have been signed, so we need to ensure that there is proper scrutiny and transparency. New clause 5 addresses that issue very comprehensively, ensuring that commercial sensitivities are not undermined, and also that all of us can have a real grasp of what is happening in the culture of HS2. It is a sensible way of addressing the serious amount of money that is being spent on these agreements. We certainly believe that the culture in HS2 must move forward.

We will listen to the debate to decide how we handle the new clauses I have laid before the House. I hope the Minister will give us assurances on them, and I will be listening carefully to determine whether to proceed to a vote. With these enhancements to the Bill, the whole HS2 project could proceed with far greater confidence and far greater support.

[Sir William Cash]

I made it clear in my remarks to the shadow Minister that I am minded to vote for these new clauses. However, towards the end of what she said, serious doubt began to descend on the House as to whether she would actually push them to a vote. She is therefore welcome to come back to the Dispatch Box to tell me whether she in fact intends to do so.

On new clause 1, it would be eminently sensible to have quarterly reports on environmental impact, costs and progress. One thing that has been completely lacking is any proper analysis by the Government or HS2 of all three of those issues.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

On the question of environmental impact, does my hon. Friend think that we were too obsessed by speed in the early years of this project? The Government now justify it on the basis of capacity, but there would still be much less environmentally damaging ways of increasing capacity—for instance, by laying more of the line along existing motorways such as the M40. Will my hon. Friend and other hon. Members also bear in mind counties not directly affected by the line, such as Lincolnshire, which are being starved of resources for our rural and commuter lines?

[Sir William Cash]

I entirely concur with my right hon. Friend. The very fact that he is in the House, as are other Members who are not directly affected by the line, is a reminder of the fact that, on the last occasion the Bill was voted on—on Second Reading—the number of people who actually voted was very small compared with the number of people who could have voted, from which one might infer that the enthusiasm for this proposal is minimal. I think as many as 200 MPs did not vote, which was quite extraordinary.

On the question of environmental impact, I would simply say that my constituents will be deeply and profoundly affected not only by the havoc that will be created by forcing this juggernaut through my constituency from top to bottom, but by the dislocation, the highways and the impact on businesses. A quarterly report is, quite frankly, a very good idea, but I am more interested in getting an answer from the shadow Minister—it is not forthcoming at the moment—because there is no point in putting forward the proposals if they will not see the light of day in a vote.

EU Exit Preparations: Ferry Contracts

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Earlier, the hon. Gentleman said that the Secretary of State was being used as a human shield. Is he aware that many Conservative Members have considerable sympathy with the Secretary of State? We believe he has been urging his colleagues for the past two years to undertake contingency planning for no deal but was frustrated by other people, perhaps in the Cabinet, who did not want to do that. If mistakes are to be made because these decisions have been taken at the last moment, it is not the fault of the Secretary of State, but he is too much of a gentleman to argue that in his own defence.

[Andy McDonald]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that revealing clarification about the obvious chaos that the Government are in over these important issues. They do not speak with a concerted and singular voice, and people are falling out with each other left, right and centre. That comes as no surprise to me whatsoever.

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[Charlie Elphicke]

I do not represent the tunnel, which is in Folkestone and Hythe; I represent Dover. However, I have been keen to press the Secretary of State to ensure that Dover receives similar investment and that it does not lose out, and I look forward to his confirmation that that will be the case.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Away from the party games, we all know that the problems in the British transport system are so intractable that any Secretary of State would face them. Many Conservative Members think that if the rest of the Cabinet had listened to my right hon. Friend the Transport Secretary two years ago and started no-deal planning at the time, not only would the EU have taken us seriously and offered a much better deal, but we would not have made the mistakes that have clearly been made. It is not the Transport Secretary’s fault.

[Charlie Elphicke]

I thank my hon. Friend for making exactly the point that I am coming to. I set out how we needed to invest to be ready on day one, deal or no deal; as I argued at the time, to get the best negotiation, we needed to be able to get up and walk away from the table. I also set out detailed legal reasons why we did not owe any of the divorce bill—another point that was important to our negotiation.

The Government as a whole—the Cabinet—decided not to spend money at that time. The Cabinet decided not to invest at that time. The Cabinet decided not to take forward contingency planning at a substantial level until after the Chequers discussions. To visit that on the Secretary of State would not be fair, right or proper.

Future of Rail (Passenger Experience)

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Will Quince]

rose—

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. Normally if a Member wishes to intervene, they arrive in time for the beginning of the debate. Please continue, Mrs Ellman.

[Mrs Ellman]

Thank you, Sir Edward. The Department is well aware of this long-standing problem. It must identify places where overcrowding has become a persistent serious problem, making journeys uncomfortable. The train companies, through the franchise agreements negotiated with the Department, should be required to identify where there is a serious problem and take action to alleviate overcrowding on specific services. I hope that the Minister will confirm that he is looking at the problem and is proposing action to address it.

Over the past day or two, there has been a lot of discussion about the consultation on the Southeastern franchise, which has rightly raised the big issue of overcrowding. The consultation puts forward certain proposals for dealing with the issue, but it is not a problem just for new franchises; the problem is being experienced now, and it requires the Department’s attention. It relates to the train operating companies and the provision of rolling stock.

I repeat the question that I have asked a succession of Ministers numerous times in a succession of meetings: who is responsible for the long-term planning and delivery of rolling stock? That might sound like a pretty basic, simple, fundamental question, but I have never received a straightforward answer; the nearest I have got is something about “the Department”. I then ask, “Who is it in the Department? The Minister? The Secretary of State?” Then the clarity disappears.

When we come across specific issues and problems—there was one a couple of years ago when a carriage was moved from an important service in the north to go to the then Prime Minister’s constituency—Ministers appear to be powerless. I was told by the then Secretary of State, “It will get resolved.” It did get resolved, in the end and after a great deal of fuss, but I still had no answer to the question of who was actually responsible. The Minister is very diligent about these matters, so I hope he will be able to give a clearer answer. Who is responsible for the long-term planning and delivery of rolling stock, including new rolling stock and refurbishment?

People are facing a whole range of problems in undertaking their journeys on rail. Perhaps one constant feature, which overrides other rail issues, is the constant challenge of the rail system’s fragmentation. Time and again we come back to the issue of how the sector will work together more cohesively to give the best possible service to the passenger.

The Rail Delivery Group was set up to bring the rail sector together. Yes, it has made some improvements, but it has not addressed the basic issues. How will it change the way it operates? Does it need more powers? Do franchises need to be different? Should the Department and Ministers act in a different way? How can the rail regulator be more effective in taking action? That is not clear. Does the regulator need more powers? If so, what are they? What action does the Minister propose to take to make that a reality? The most disappointing thing about the challenges that the Committee and I have identified is that most of them are not new: they are long standing. Despite the best efforts of a succession of Ministers and the Department, not a great deal has changed, and we simply cannot go on like that.

As our inquiry was under way, a major crisis was developing on Southern rail, which is part of the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise. It is run by the parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway —known as GTR—but I will refer to it as Southern, because that is the area in which the bulk of the problems have arisen and where the bulk of the difficulties are for passengers.

As we were conducting our inquiry, passengers on the route were becoming increasingly exasperated and angry that their rail service, for which many pay several thousand pounds a year, was inadequate and utterly unreliable. Whether passengers are paying several thousand pounds a year for a season ticket or simply paying their fare, they are equally entitled to have a proper service, but that was not happening. The situation remains virtually the same, with passengers suffering mass cancellations and inordinate delays. People’s jobs have been put at risk, simply because they cannot get to work on time. Some people reported that they have moved house because of the problem.

Life has been disrupted. Why? It is a sorry combination of a too-large franchise, poor management, misjudgment and disastrous industrial relations, which have conspired to create an appalling situation for passengers. The ongoing strikes have compounded a series of errors and incompetence. Passengers are right to be angry, but the Department does not seem to be doing much about the situation except to accept that there is a big problem.

It cannot be acceptable for those responsible for the problem—not just one party is responsible; responsibility must be shared by a multiplicity of organisations and individuals—to fail so comprehensively and for so long and to appear not to be acting. In 2016 alone, 58,983 train journeys were partly or wholly cancelled. That is a tremendous figure. I do not think the travelling public want to hear all the arguments about who is responsible. They just know that it is a fact that their lives are still being disrupted and that nothing much is changing, and they want something done about it.

The Department has already accepted that the franchise that was drawn up was much too large. It is the largest in the country. It is uniquely large; it contains more than a fifth of all the passenger journeys across Britain’s entire network. It is too large a franchise, and the Department has said that that was its mistake.

Add to that the situation on the ground and the complexity of major infrastructure works planned during the course of the franchise agreement, including the huge and logistically challenging Thameslink programme, and there was a recipe for calamitous passenger experience. The impact of the Thameslink programme on passenger services was substantially underestimated. The estimated number of delay minutes was forecast to be 10,000 per year; the reality has been 10,000 per week. I ask the Minister how that estimate could be so disastrously wrong. It has contributed substantially to the problem.

If we add to those things—too large a franchise and a major infrastructure challenge, the impact of which was grossly underestimated—inadequate levels of staffing, the situation becomes even worse. The industrial action on top of that has escalated the situation to an unacceptable level.

I mention one other factor; I suspect hon. Members will find it difficult to believe if they are not already aware of it. At the very beginning of the franchise, the company did not have enough drivers to operate the trains. That part has been rectified—except for the fact that we are now in a dispute about driver-only operation—but having insufficient drivers at the beginning of the franchise does not suggest great competence.

The question for the Department and the Minister to answer is: what is being done? The franchise was constructed on a management fee basis, which is currently unique, because of the anticipated risk. The revenues go directly to the Government and a fee is paid to the train operator, so there is no risk in that sense. I have described the nature of the services and the problems. The train operator receives an annual management fee of around £1 billion; probably around £3 billion has been paid out to date. Under that system, the public purse foots the bill for losses that occur from lost sales, disruption and passenger compensation.

I do not have an up-to-date figure of exactly how much has been lost and how much the public purse will have to pay out, but the latest figure I have is £38 million and rising. That was supplied by the Minister in a letter to me some time ago. Compensation schemes have been announced since then, and we do not know how they are operating or how much money is involved. The bill could be increasing substantially.

To add to the complexity and difficulty, there is the issue of force majeure, which concerns the dispute—ongoing and unresolved, as far as I am aware—between the train operating company and the Department for Transport about who is responsible for all those cancelled services. Who is responsible for those 58,983 and more train journeys that were wholly or partly cancelled? There is an unresolved dispute between the Department and the train company, with no end date in sight. That cannot be acceptable. All this is continuing—passengers are getting more and more angry, and there is no end date. I hope the Minister can tell us what is happening and when it will be resolved. The public also have a right to know what the Department’s plans are to deal with the situation.

The franchise is due to run until September 2021. I would not like to anticipate the extent or the level of anger that passengers are going to be feeling by then if nothing changes. What is the Department doing? Is it considering restructuring the franchise—perhaps dividing it up and allocating different parts to different operators? There is silence. We simply do not know what is happening. Doing nothing is simply not enough.

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[Clive Efford]

My hon. Friend’s intervention is incredibly timely, because I was about to go on to describe my attempts to get to Stoke-on-Trent on Virgin Trains on 23 February. I was fortunate that I did not take the 10.30 am train as my colleagues had. It had left, but perhaps my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), who is present, only got to Stafford at 8 o’clock in the evening, as my hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) did. He texted me from there; he had been travelling for more than 10 hours. My train did not leave at all. I sat there for 45 minutes and finally it was cancelled, although that turned out to be fortunate, because I did not end up trapped half way up the country, nowhere near where I wanted to go.

I then tried to claim my ticket back. I know we are going to do an inquiry into this, but it too is part of the passenger experience. As instructed, I went on to the Virgin website to claim my ticket back, but there was no facility to say that my train had been cancelled. I was allowed to say that my train had been delayed, but I was unable to say that it had been cancelled. Every time I pressed the button, I was sent back to the beginning, so I took to Twitter and asked, “Is anyone else having this problem with Virgin rail?” I am sure because I am a Member of Parliament and on the Select Committee, I then got Rolls-Royce treatment—[Interruption.] It was absolutely Rolls-Royce, because Virgin wrote back to me saying, “Dear Joseph”, and that they were sorry about my customer experience. They also sent me half the money and we finally resolved the matter. The point, however, is that the experience should not be like that.

In the report one of the online ticketing companies, Trainline, said that people were uncertain whether they had bought the cheapest ticket, which was a barrier to some people choosing to use rail at all. Which companies make the cost of their product so opaque that it might put customers off, other than one that has a trapped market and people who have no choice but to use that service, no matter how bad it is? We really need to deal with that customer experience.

My last point is about overcrowding and capacity. I go back to Southeastern. The figures in the report show that Southeastern operates an appalling service. It is one of the worst, and it should be thankful for Southern which stops it from being bottom of the customer satisfaction rankings. When we consider that every day so many people in south-east London rely on that surface rail service to get to work, and that there is no alternative but road, we realise what an appalling service it is and what an appalling and disproportionate impact it has on the lives of people from that part of London.

Many people think that the whole of London is served by the underground, but my part of London is well outside the orbit of the underground, and buses from outer south-east London take a devil of a time to get into central London. We rely almost entirely on that commuter rail service, and it is not acceptable that it is such an appalling performer. When we do get on trains, they are overcrowded at peak times because they are not long enough and there are so few alternatives to that rail service.

We have lengthened the platforms, so let us now lengthen the trains. We need to ensure that we have the capacity on Southeastern rail services so that people can get on the trains at peak time. We need 12-car trains serving the metro services in south-east London so that constituents from north Kent and my constituency can get to work comfortably and on time every day. Thank you, Sir Edward, for allowing me to make that contribution.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. Mr Quince, I was a bit hard on you. If you wish to make a comment now, you may.

[Will Quince]

indicated dissent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Clive Efford]

Did the Scottish National party Government in Scotland learn anything from the franchising process we have undergone in England? The passenger survey shows that, since the Scottish Government privatised the service to Abellio, satisfaction in the service has declined, and the service has declined since then. I wonder whether any lessons—

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. I do not think we need to start debating Scottish railways—unless you really want to, Marion Fellows—because I am not sure they are germane.

[Marion Fellows]

Perhaps we should. It is important that the Minister hears how we dealt with these things in Scotland so that he can take on board some of the things the Government there have done.

The hon. Member for Cleethorpes gave us an interesting and humorous list of journeys from Cleethorpes to Haverfordwest. I really enjoyed that. I could introduce him to someone I know well who regularly journeys from here in London to north of Dundee. She is an expert on how to get the best deal with split ticketing. However, the whole point is that people should not have to become experts in that area. There should be a way of simply going on to a website and finding the cheapest journey as easily as possible.

The hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) referred to his time on the Select Committee in a former Parliament and was disturbed to find that we are still dealing with the same issues. I know you do not want me to go on for too long, Sir Edward, so I will not do a full summing up of what everyone else said, but, for the Minister’s benefit, yes, there were issues in Scotland over the franchise given to Abellio, but after much consternation among passengers, the Scottish Government brought in an improvement plan and since then things have moved forward. The score for ScotRail on the passenger satisfaction survey was at 83%, which was lower than the previous year, but in the last month or so it has gone back up to about 90%—a number that many companies and commuters in the south-east of England would be delighted to have.

The Scottish Government have put more than £5 billion in an investment programme for the five-year period to 2019. We will open new stations and build new lines. We see that as a way to get a greener Scotland and to increase Scotland’s economic base.

I commend to the House the ten-minute rule Bill that my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry)—I myself have to read his constituency because it is so vast—introduced in the Chamber only this week. What we really need in Scotland is Network Rail to be devolved. The Scottish Government can take forward many programmes, but ultimately Network Rail is not devolved, which means it does not have full control over the rail network in Scotland.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. I know the hon. Lady will want to speak to the report.

[Marion Fellows]

Yes, I shall do—I apologise, Sir Edward. It is important for the Minister to understand that it is possible to improve things and move them forward. As part of the process of making things better on the English railways, if I can put it that way, he may also want to look at taking powers to nationalise them again, as we did in Scotland, so that Government organisations and national organisations could bid for franchises. That happened on the east coast main line, and it ran very well.

Heathrow Expansion: Surface Access

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that they are indeed warm words because, as anyone who has children knows—I do not, actually—a family of four will undoubtedly drive or get a taxi to the airport and not use a cycle or a train?

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. Just as a matter of courtesy, hon. Members wishing to intervene should arrive on time for the beginning of the debate.

[Sarah Olney]

I thank the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry) for his intervention. I accept that there will always be people who choose to make their passenger journeys to the airport by car, and I agree that walking journeys are not likely, given the vast expanse of Heathrow airport and the limited amount of housing around it, so they surely are no more than warm words. However, I would like to think that a great deal more could be done to move passenger journeys to the airport on to public transport, and I support any plans that enable that to happen.

The economic case for expanding Heathrow airport also rests on being able to increase the amount of freight that will pass through the airport. It is difficult to imagine that that increased freight will be transported to the airport on the backs of bicycles or carried on the tube. Can the Minister confirm that the plans for no net increase in road journeys will therefore include a sufficient reduction in passenger journeys to compensate for the increased number of freight movements, and that steps will be taken to ensure, where possible, that those freight movements are made by low-emission vehicles to limit the impact on air pollution?

In conclusion, I believe that the Government need to produce without delay their own detailed estimates for the upgrade of surface access to an expanded Heathrow airport in order for the public to be properly informed during the consultation process. I would go as far as to say that the consultation process will be completely invalid if the Department’s own figures for the surface access upgrade are not made available for the public to consider. All the most critical elements of the decision to award planning permission—traffic, air quality and cost—will be affected by those plans. I call on the Minister to respond urgently to that request.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Olney]

Could you answer the point I made about freight, because so far your answer has focused specifically on passenger transport—

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. I am sorry, but I have not given any answer to the hon. Lady.

[Sarah Olney]

Could the Minister respond on the point about freight?

Transport: North-east

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Westminster Hall

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

I apologise for arriving after the start of the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson).

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Don’t worry. We started early.

[Chi Onwurah]

Thank you, Sir Edward.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate on a subject that is so important to all our constituencies. Transport in the north-east is a critical part of our infrastructure. My time is short, so I want to make four points about roads, rail, buses and industrial strategy.

The hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mrs Trevelyan) said that everyone has to have a car in rural Northumberland, but I know constituents of hers who do not have one. The bottom line of a transport strategy should be to have a public transport system that enables ordinary working people to go to work, universities and schools without having a car. The fact that a Member of Parliament who represents Northumberland believes that her constituents have to have a car is significant. It is true that the bus services in Northumberland are often very poor—I have experienced them—but I hope the Minister will commit to delivering transport infrastructure in the north-east that enables my constituents to go about their normal work and leisure business without having a car.

I listened closely to today’s autumn statement, and I did not hear the looked-for and somewhat trailed investment in transport infrastructure. My understanding is that the dualling of the A69 has been replaced by dualling of the A66. If that proves to be the case, I would like the Minister to explain why we cannot have the investment across the north that we need to ensure we have proper transport links, and why investment in our road infrastructure is piecemeal and on such a limited scale.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Stevenson]

I appreciate the Minister giving way. I apologise for my late arrival, Sir Edward, which was in part due to the machinations of the Scottish Affairs Committee.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Keep it to the north-east, please.

[John Stevenson]

I appreciate that the debate is very much about the north-east and the transport there, but connectivity between regions and cities is vital. We have heard good news about the A66. Will there be good news about the A69?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Jones]

Clearly trains have to stop if people are going to get on them. That argument does not seem to me a difficult one, but it is one that has to be built in to the franchise arrangements. I will happily take that back. The hon. Gentleman also asked about the Ashington, Blyth and Tyne line. The North East local enterprise partnership has asked us to consider a bid for development funding for the reintroduction of passenger services on that line, which seems to me to be very positive.

There has been some caution regarding HS2, which seems to me to be entirely unreasonable. HS2 will free up capacity on our network, inject capacity to allow more services to be provided and deliver benefits of £103 billion to the UK economy, around one third of which we expect to be in the north of England. Some 70% of the jobs that will be supported by HS2 are expected to be outside of London, so HS2 is an important part of our network.

We have not talked much about roads. Not only will we have a motorway running to the north-east for the first time ever, as highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson), but there are also schemes to the west of Newcastle. With regard to today’s announcements, I can confirm that we have done five strategic studies in the Department for Transport as part of the road investment strategy. As part of those, the A66 will be dualled and there will be work on the north-west quadrant of the M60. That is part of the road investment strategy from 2020 to 2025, so the idea that the north-west is getting everything and the north-east is ignored is not true. There was a further announcement, which has not necessarily been picked up yet: that the Tees Valley east-west connections are also being approved to take the business case forward to the next stage. That is effectively a Darlington north-western bypass. That was a further positive announcement today.

My hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mrs Trevelyan) talked about people being doom-mongers and wondering whether anything would happen in people’s lifetimes. I was asked by a colleague whether HS2 would happen in anyone’s lifetime and I suggested that, as we were starting to do the build in the spring, it would be quite a good idea to hang on—we do not want a by-election. I agree entirely on the merits of the Borders line. It is one of the most beautiful parts of our United Kingdom, and it is a big success. I will be very happy to see it extended. That sounds like a good idea, but I have not seen anything further on it.

This is my last point. I hope that this quick canter through the various announcements that have been made has highlighted the fact that significant investment is taking place in road and rail. We have seen air capacity increased. We have changes taking place to buses—

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. The Minister should please give the hon. Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) 30 seconds to wind up.

[Andrew Jones]

I heartily support all that is happening and the Government’s strong commitment to the north-east.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I have had no notification that the Secretary of State is coming forward. However, the hon. Lady has got the matter on the record, and I am sure that people will be listening to the debate that is taking place at this very moment. Let us wait and see.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Believe it or not, this is a point of order about procedure. We have just had a debate and a vote and have approved over £55 billion of expenditure. The Third Reading debate on this country’s biggest ever infrastructure project lasted just half an hour and large numbers of hon. Members were not able to be called. I would have liked to talk about the lack of investment in Lincolnshire’s railways, for example, and other points could have been made. The limits have become absurd, so will you have a word with Mr Speaker? The Procedure Committee, of which I am a member, is looking at this, but we could have a procedure by which you or one of your colleagues could have extended the debate for just another half an hour.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

As you know, it is a matter for the Government how they timetable the business. As you rightly say, you have a view that you wish to express. Unfortunately, we are not in charge of the business. I am sure that everybody who reads Hansard will realise that you have raised this on the Floor of the House, even though it is not a point of order for the Chair.