Vocational Education

David Simpson Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

On this sunny morning, it is a real joy to see you in the Chair, Mr Gray, and I hope that our expectation of great chairmanship will be delivered by the end of the sitting.

Tomorrow is vocational qualifications day, so this debate is particularly timely. That annual celebration of vocational qualifications is organised by the Edge Foundation and quite properly supported by all political parties and, most importantly, by colleges, training providers and awarding bodies. Celebrations and events will be held around the country, with outstanding achievements being recognised through VQ learner and employer awards. By celebrating learners and employers, VQ day recognises that the relationship between them, supported by providers, is crucial if we are to deliver effective vocational learning that meets the needs of both employers and the economy.

I have been struck by the number of individuals and organisations that have contacted me to say that they are extremely interested in today’s debate, including Cambridge Assessment, Clive Wilson—Franklin College’s excellent associate principal—the Association of Colleges, the National Grid, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, Pearson, the National Institute of Adult Continuing Education, the Prince’s Trust, the Federation of Small Businesses, the National Union of Students, McDonald’s and the Science Council.

That avalanche of interest is all the more amazing for the consistency with which those different organisations have raised the key issues for setting the landscape fair for vocational education in future. I can identify four broad concerns: first, the need for vocational education in key stages 4 and 5 to be placed in a broad and balanced curriculum offer; secondly, the importance of careers information, advice and guidance being impartial and linked to the economy’s needs; thirdly, the role of apprenticeships; and finally, the challenge of reskilling adults, particularly those who have become workless. Let me take each in turn.

The first issue is about all students having access to a vocational offer within a broad and balanced curriculum. Edge states a bold vision that I hope we can embrace. It has stated that it wants

“an education system where people discover all their talents achieve excellent results and are better prepared for apprenticeships, higher education and work”.

In my opinion, having worked hard to lead a college in delivering improving progression outcomes for students year on year, secondary education in 2010 had arrived at a positive place. That was largely down to the practical good sense of school and college leaders, exam boards and employers, working together within a largely stable framework set by the Government.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I apologise for being late, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on obtaining this debate. For many years in Northern Ireland, it was them and us—it was the industry and educationists—but over the past couple of years, the two sides have come together, which encourages young people and helps them to get the skill base that is essential. Does he agree that that is certainly one way to achieve what he wants?

[Nic Dakin]

Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point about employers and educationists coming together to set an agenda, which can be very powerful in liberating young people and delivering on their potential.

Through a focus on personalised learning, student achievement was being raised and student progression to work and higher education improved. Such personalisation of learning is important. Through the flexible use of BTEC firsts and BTEC nationals, as well as similar qualifications, general vocational qualifications were finding a place alongside GCSEs and A-levels, which led to students achieving more at both 16 and 18. Most importantly, progression into employment and higher education, though not perfect, was strong and improving.

Interestingly, a new study by London Economics shows that a higher proportion of students who do a BTEC and a degree end up in work than those who do straight A-levels and a degree. The research also shows the highly vocationalised HE choices of ex-BTEC students, particularly in STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering and maths—and business finance. Across all regions, BTEC graduates in skilled occupations earn more than their contemporaries. The curriculum we had in 2010 is therefore delivering results for us today. Even the ill-fated diploma spawned the engineering diploma, which has been fêted by engineering employers and HE providers for placing industry in the curriculum driving seat, thereby delivering for young people and the economy, as the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) has pointed out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McKenzie]

Thank you, Mr Gray. I will take that direction.

Of course, the curriculum had to change to reflect what business was advising us about problems with employing school leavers. I have spoken to my local businesses and the chambers of commerce about what they required when hiring young people leaving school. The reply was always the same, and perhaps it is the same across the country. They said that they receive young people into the employment world, unready and lacking in the skills to contribute immediately to their business from day one.

Businesses need employees who can apply initiative and solve problems and innovate with limited supervision. There was, more than often, no prepared equation that could be applied to projects. Young people were looking for an equation to populate to get an answer for business. We had to change that and apply a process that would stimulate innovation and initiative when learning.

Business leaders and the entrepreneurs of the future have to be identified. In my constituency, we have pioneered an association with business employers and school leavers based on “The Apprentice”. With numerous employers, we have put in place a six-month programme called “The Recruit”, which provides vocational qualifications and involves tasks set by employers, who evaluate participants for potential hires at the end of the course; it is the longest interview a young person will have. The programme continues to be supported by many local employers, and it has been replicated by many local authorities. It has been a great success, and it regularly secures many jobs for school leavers who want to earn while they continue to learn. The course identifies and develops leaders and those with entrepreneurial abilities.

Our schools also link up with those in the third year of secondary school, offering basic skills in traditional trades that go towards an apprenticeship. The need for apprenticeships has never been greater. Too many young lives are being wasted on the dole queues. Long-term unemployed young people are the most vulnerable, with many trapped in a vicious cycle of joblessness, anxiety and depression. We desperately need to get our young people into training and apprenticeships. The 50% of our young people who do not go to university need every chance to improve their skills and to get good jobs.

[David Simpson]

I agree with the vast majority of the hon. Gentleman’s comments, and we certainly need to encourage our young people. However, the research papers we received for the debate state that some schools now charge parents to send their children on work experience. Surely, that is wrong, and it will not help us target areas of deprivation or encourage young people whose parents cannot afford to pay for them to go on work experience.

[Mr McKenzie]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about charging for work experience. I represent an area whose population is not over-wealthy, and people would find it extremely difficult to pay for work experience. We are therefore fortunate that many employers offer work experience free of charge.

We need a highly skilled, highly educated work force to meet the challenges of tomorrow and to compete with other advanced nations. The economy needs value-added skills to compete with the economies of Brazil, India, China and other emerging nations. Apprenticeships are a valuable way to give young people skills, training and jobs. They also offer on-the-job learning opportunities and, of course, further education. They enable young people not only to learn about their chosen trade or profession, but to do so on the spot. They also enable them to talk to colleagues who are already skilled and experienced. Apprenticeships and vocational education can offer so much, and there is no reason why they should not be expanded to cover a wide variety of jobs and professions. If that is to happen, however, we need to engage more of Britain’s companies and to bring them on board.

We can plan for apprenticeships. Any company wanting to provide goods or services to the public should be required to have an apprenticeship scheme before it can win a contract. Labour’s jobs-for-contracts scheme would increase the number of apprenticeships by thousands and give immediate help to many of the 1 million unemployed under-25s. That simple idea—creating apprenticeship places through public procurement—would provide immediate help with alleviating youth unemployment and would strengthen the vocational sector. It works: the Labour council in Inverclyde has been using it for many years, and the number of those in the NEET category in Inverclyde stood at seven last year—not 7%, but seven pupils.

Today, Britain risks losing the global skills race. We need to be as strong as Germany and Switzerland on vocational education, and as competitive as Singapore and Japan on maths. Britain’s future national competitiveness is at stake and so is our young people’s future. We need to engage employers in designing high-quality apprenticeships, giving them a greater say in spending the £1 billion of funding available to target apprenticeships at our young people.

Apprenticeships

David Simpson Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

There has been a system through the years where there has not been that close working relationship between educationists and industry, and educationists need to provide the courses that are relevant to today’s industry.

[Mr Bailey]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman, and if I have time I will come to that very point.

One of the Select Committee’s recommendations was that the Ofsted assessment criteria should include the number of students that a school puts into vocational and further education. It is only by changing school targets that teachers will change the culture of schools to overcome this discrimination between higher education and the vocational route. Unfortunately, the Government declined to take up that invitation.

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) for a very good Select Committee report that highlighted the problems of the careers service. By delegating careers advice to schools, the existing bias within the education system to encourage students to take the higher education route rather than the vocational route is being reinforced. We need careers advisers who are aware of apprenticeships, aware of the benefits of vocational education, and prepared to advise students in schools that that is the best possible route for their particular range of aptitude.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Walker]

I heartily agree with the hon. Gentleman. We have to change those incentives and provide better ones and support from outside the teaching profession for the careers service in order to handle that better.

[David Simpson]

Does the hon. Gentleman also agree that one of the difficulties is that some industries have had a culture of employing agency workers, who are easy to employ and to dispose of, which means there is no investment, and that that culture has to change?

[Mr Walker]

I agree with that as well. I think there is the opportunity to show businesses the benefits of investing in skills and that that can be achieved through apprenticeships. Some of the strongest recommendations in the Select Committee’s report relate to the need to strengthen the brand of apprenticeships and the focus on them in careers advice. It also points out the need to increase engagement between the National Apprenticeship Service and schools. Disappointingly, the motion makes no mention of those issues at all.

I would go further than the Committee’s report. We need businesses to engage more closely with schools, to put their managers on to the governing bodies of schools at both primary and secondary levels, and to champion the advantages and opportunities of apprenticeships and work-based learning, just as university-educated teachers will always champion the benefits of going to university.

In my constituency, I have been pleased to see Yamazaki Mazak take an active role in supporting the Bishop Perowne Church of England academy, placing its managers on the governing bodies of the school and its primary feeders and proactively engaging with school children in order to advocate the benefits of vocational education. I am glad to see Worcester Bosch playing an active role in inspiring pupils at the Tudor Grange academy and was delighted to hold an apprenticeships and enterprise fair, sponsored by both companies, to bring schools, employers and apprenticeship providers together with young people to talk about apprenticeships in Worcester.

The Select Committee’s report made powerful representations about the need to engage small and medium-sized enterprises in the apprenticeship agenda and pointed out that 80% of apprentices are employed in the SME sector. Again, the motion is silent on this point. In Worcester, a proactive, Conservative-led city council has engaged with this agenda to support SMEs with extra grants so that when they take on apprenticeships they get double the support that is available from the Government. I was delighted that at my most recent business event a number of small companies present had already taken on apprentices and they valued the support they were offered. I have also been very pleased with the consistent support for this agenda from the local media, particularly the Worcester News, which has run the 100 in 100 apprenticeships campaign.

It is of course right that the Government consider public procurement as a way of encouraging apprenticeships, and I was pleased to hear the Minister reiterate their commitment to using it in that way. It is right that the Select Committee drew Ministers’ attention to this important area, as it did on pages 52 and 53 of its 90-page report. However, it is also right that the Government should have regard to the cost that making procurement conditional on apprenticeships might have for the public purse and private enterprise. The report says,

“we concede that some flexibility is required”,

and, with regard to the suggestion of looking for at least one apprenticeship per £1 million awarded,

“we have been told by the TUC that this is current policy in some construction procurement arrangements.”

It is notable that the recommendation on procurement did not form even one of the sub-headings in the conclusions and recommendations of the report.

I passionately support apprenticeships. I welcome the fact that we are celebrating national apprenticeship week and welcome the very important work of the BIS Committee, of which I am proud to be a member.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Simpson Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Does the Minister agree that our schools and colleges play a key role in helping to encourage young people who are potential apprentices, and that they need to provide the courses that are relevant to industry today?

[Matthew Hancock]

I certainly do agree. It is important to include English and maths in apprenticeships for all those who do not have level 2, and we must do more to make sure we inspire young people to look not only at the academic route, but at apprenticeships which combine work and training at the same time.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Simpson Excerpts

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

It is vital that we ensure that international safeguards are present in respect of inter-country adoptions. When we come to look at the adoption panels, we will want to strike a balance to ensure that the right people are coming forward and being scrutinised appropriately with the minimum of delay.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

What more can the Government do to encourage and help older couples who wish to adopt children?

Oral Answers to Questions

David Simpson Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

Yes, the national skills academies were an invention of the previous Government, but none the less we believe they do an important job of focusing on those parts of the economy where investment in skills can facilitate growth. The academies are an important part of what we intend, but it is vital that they are led by employers, so that the system is responsive to need and sensitive to changing demand. I accept my hon. Gentleman’s support for them. He can be assured that that support is endorsed by the Government, who will continue to invest in them.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Minister will be aware that in Amnesty International’s recent young human rights report 2012, young students had written pieces on child brides and on human trafficking. Does he agree that teachers have a key role in both challenging and inspiring pupils to take up such causes?

[Tim Loughton]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. He has rightly made that into something of a cause, because those offences against children are going on too much and under the radar. First, we need to ensure that they come out into the daylight of transparency so that we can see exactly what is going on. We need to inform children better, within and outwith schools, on what they should be sensitive to. We need to work with local safeguarding children boards and with others whose job is to ensure that all the agencies work together to ensure that children are kept safe from those unhappy practices that are going on too often.

School Funding

David Simpson Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[Richard Graham]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point that relates perhaps to a later stage of the argument that I will develop. I agree with him absolutely that although, as the saying goes, size—or, in this case, money—is not everything, it does go a long way towards improving the opportunities for children in our constituencies. As we all know, above all else, the Government are concerned with aspiration and providing equal opportunities for children across the country.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Would it not be a travesty if areas of social deprivation lose out on the school funding formula when the Government’s ethos is to encourage young people into education and perhaps to go on from that to vocational studies?

[Richard Graham]

The hon. Gentleman is implying that my argument is to beggar my neighbour, to give pupils in Gloucester a better chance. He is right in saying that a charge to the lowest common denominator to achieve equality is not necessarily what we are looking for, and that is not what I intend to propose. However, perhaps we will come on to the specifics of that in a moment.

Broadly, we have already established a degree of consensus in the debate—and I suspect across the House—that the principle of equal funding for every child in the country is one that we would all happily sign up to. The Secretary of State for Education has made it clear that that is his principle as well. Of course, the Government have, in a sense, made deprivation much easier to deal with by introducing the pupil premium, which hugely helps those children who come from very deprived backgrounds and who therefore deserve additional money being spent on them to give them the same opportunities as those children from more stable family backgrounds. We all agree on the principle, but what can be done about it? Given the length of time that the issue has been with us—some 20 years or more—and, I regret to say, the previous Government’s complete failure to tackle the problem, it falls upon the coalition Government to deal with it.

During the various debates that have already taken place in the House since the Government came to power, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education has perfectly summarised the issue. He has said:

“The current system is not only ludicrously bureaucratic, it is also unfair as schools in different parts of the country are not funded on a rational basis. Moreover, the sheer complexity of the system gives schools less incentive to respond to the needs of local parents by expanding or establishing new provision.”

With the exception of not alluding to the Schleswig-Holstein issue, he could not have put it better, and I do not suppose that any hon. Member here today would disagree with him. How do the Government therefore propose to create a fairer system that will enable those authorities in which our constituencies lie to be reassured that the Government can right the wrong that has been with us for more than 20 years?

Of course, I should say that the Government first launched a consultation. At the announcement of the consultation, Lord Hill determined that it would address the disparities and inequalities within our school system. The consultation was the first step towards ensuring fair funding. None the less, the Department for Education has been unable to find the additional money that would have provided the top-up to all those areas in the F40 group. That would have provided us with the simple one-stop solution of equal funding for all pupils across the land. In times of extremely constrained finance, it is not surprising—no one in our constituencies could conceivably blame the Government for this—that the additional significant amount of money needed to solve the problem in one go has not been found.

However, there has been good news in terms of a significant reduction in the factors that local authorities can consider when constructing school formula. The number of factors that need to be considered have dropped from 37 to 10, which will slightly reduce the complexity of the education funding formula, to which I alluded earlier, and make it easier for schools to understand the rationale behind their budgets. The consultation also arrived at a much greater delegation of funding to schools and will ensure that local authorities can no longer top-slice school budgets. Above all, given that 75% of the secondary schools in Gloucestershire are now academies, the consultation provided for academies to be funded using exactly the same formula as maintained schools, because there had been a year’s lag under the system inherited from the previous Government. That single change will make a significant difference to the academies in my constituency of Gloucester and elsewhere.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Simpson Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tim Loughton]

My right hon. Friend has been a great champion of some of these youth centres and he has one of the soon to be 63 myplace centres in his constituency, which have been such successful hubs, and which I hope will be open during the whole week and at weekends for as long as there are young people who want to use them—a policy that was started by the previous Government but without the funding that has been secured by this Government to make sure that they all open.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Further to the question about adoption, will the initiative by the Government to speed up the process for potential parents help older prospective parents?

[Tim Loughton]

I hope it will help all prospective adopters who are capable of offering a good quality, stable, loving family environment for that child. I have been trying to bust all the myths that people of a certain age or a certain weight or who happen to be smokers or not are instantly vetoed from being adopters. That is absolutely not true. If people of a certain age think they can offer a home to a child, I would encourage them strongly to come forward and see if they are up for it.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Simpson Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. I am uniquely fortunate in that I have in the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning a colleague who is passionate about that and who is on record in the latest issue of The House Magazine as having said that he has used the word “apprenticeship” in debates in this House more often than any other Member here. The reason he has done so and the reason we are so committed to increasing the number of apprenticeships—[Interruption.] He is a great Minister and he is part of a coalition Government who have presided over the fastest growth in quality apprenticeships under any Government in history.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that whether in vocational study, university courses or apprenticeships, the essential thing is that courses are relevant for future employment and, indeed, for future employers?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. One of the problems that we have had in the past is that some awarding bodies have offered qualifications that were deemed to be technical or vocational but in fact were not. We need to ensure that those qualifications, which are robust and respected, are increasingly popular and are used in our schools and colleges.

Adoption

David Simpson Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Westminster Hall

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak. I will be brief, because I know that right hon. and hon. Members want to contribute to this debate.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Erewash (Jessica Lee) on securing this debate on an issue that is very important to a lot of people out there among the general public who are interested in becoming prospective parents. They are interested in this debate, because the hon. Lady has expressed a lot of the frustration that many of them feel when they have to go through the process of adoption.

In the research papers that we received before this debate, one figure given to us was that last year, only 60 out of 3,600 children under the age of one who are in care were adopted, and in addition the average time that the process of adoption took was two and a half years. We all know that when a child reaches the age of four, the possibility of their being adopted is very slim indeed. They may go into foster care, but it is certainly very difficult for them to be adopted.

The research papers state that one in four adopted children were forced to wait more than a year before they moved in with their new parents. I have to say that my experience as someone who has adopted—I will go into that experience more in a moment—is in relation to the prospective parents: those couples who believe that they can offer a good home to children and who have tried for many years to have a family in a natural process but have never been able to do so. They are frustrated with the legislation on adoption. We have heard about the form-filling. In the words of people who have come to me, they are frustrated with “the intrusiveness” of having to sit down with social workers. The hon. Lady mentioned the good work of social services, and I accept that point, as being a social worker is a very difficult job. However, for older prospective parents aged between 30 and 35, having to sit down and talk to a young social worker who has very little experience of life and rearing a family—their experience all comes from a textbook—and tell them why they cannot have a family is very difficult. The prospective parents have to tell the social worker all their personal details and the process is very frustrating from their point of view.

There is a balance to be struck in all of this. I understand—and I am sure that all right hon. and hon. Members realise this—that some of the things that have happened to children over the years, and even in recent months, for example, baby P, children being starved to death and all those sorts of things, are horrific. In my opinion, anyone who does that sort of thing to a child is not fit to live in society.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman has raised the issues that people who want to adopt, or even foster, children are faced with. There is a myth that if someone is a smoker, or unmarried or even overweight, they will not be considered a suitable adoptive parent. Of course, many parents throughout the country face all those issues and it does not make them any better or any worse parents. We must also address the issue that people are expected to be paragons of virtue in everything that they do before they are regarded as perfect adoptive parents.

[David Simpson]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Lady. Certainly, if being overweight had been an issue, I would not have fitted the bill. Later on this afternoon, my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) will introduce a Westminster Hall debate on the Government policy on obesity, and he has dared me to attend. [Laughter.] I will go to it.

The hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) is right. No one is perfect and it is very hard to get a role model of a parent. We all have frustrations. Even if people have children through the natural process, they experience frustrations because they do not know how those children are going to turn out, which is difficult. The hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) raised the issue of the age of prospective parents and I think that she said she is 47. May I say that she looks very well for 47? If I was a social worker, I would take her for 27, but we will not go down that road.

Returning to the serious point, it is nonsense for social services to restrict the number of prospective parents just because someone is over 40, or 45. That is absolutely scandalous. One of the prospective parents who had come to see me and who had been told that they could not adopt, was told that one reason was they were over 45, so when the child reached their teenage years the prospective father could not play football with them. That is absolute nonsense—the whole thing is crazy.

We must try to get a balance in all of this. In Northern Ireland 25 years ago, what my wife and I did was very new. We went to an agency, we went through missionaries, and we adopted our first child from India. That was 25 years ago this December. I think that we were the second set of parents in Northern Ireland to adopt a child from a foreign country. The reason was simple; it was because the waiting list to adopt a child in Northern Ireland was horrendous. It was unbelievable. We felt that we could give a child a home, and as we could not have that child from the British system, we were forced to go down another avenue.

We did that 25 years ago. We have had no problems whatsoever from a cultural or ethnic viewpoint, and we have experienced no racism in any way. My daughter is now 25 and she runs her own business. Then we adopted twins from Paraguay. At that time, the dictator in Paraguay made it very clear that he would prefer it if children died on the streets of Paraguay than be adopted by a western society. He did not have his way and we adopted the twins. Someone asked us after we did that if we were trying to start our own United Nations, but we decided to stop at just the three children because we knew that the United Nations was nothing to be proud of. We did not go down that road.

Our twins are now 22, and again that adoption has worked well; there are absolutely no issues. However, the point that I am making is that because of the system we were forced to go in that direction. The system needs to be looked at. Two and a half years is much too long for any prospective parent to wait for a child. We need to deal with that, and we must address the ageism involved in beliefs about the age a prospective parent should be.

[Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Jessica Lee) on securing this excellent debate. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that families who put themselves forward for adoption often have had fertility problems? Not only are they waiting throughout the lengthy bureaucratic process of adoption, but they might have been trying for children and have had a desire to contribute, by bringing up a family, for a long time—perhaps up to five or six years.

[David Simpson]

That is 100% right. The hon. Gentleman raises a very important issue, and we need to get to grips with the situation. On many such issues, the policy of the present Government and of previous Governments for many years—I am not pointing the figure at any one in particular—has been, “We’ll put a sticking-plaster over it and that will last for another while. Then we’ll perhaps bring out a wee bit of legislation or else we’ll go out for consultation.” The period involved is frustrating for potential adoptive parents. Last year in the United Kingdom, only 60 out of 3,600 children under the age of one in care were placed with families. That scandal must be dealt with, and I trust that the Minister will take note. Many families who are willing to give children a loving home are not given the opportunity to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that example. We are all frustrated by the process, which does not deliver when needed but adds anomalies, in this case in relation to smoking.

[David Simpson]

On that point, when we were going through the process, we were told that it would take a year or a year and a half to do the home study and so on, but if we were willing to pay for it, social services could do it in four months. That is exactly what we did. People who cannot afford that have to wait a year and a half or more, but those in a position to pay for a home study through social services can do it in four months, a bit like the health service. It is not right.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. There is something seriously wrong with a process where those who can pay get it and those who cannot pay have to wait.

Sex and Relationship Education

David Simpson Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrea Leadsom]

The hon. Lady makes another good point. That could certainly be one way of addressing the problem. However, I still advocate an easy and uniformly good way of dealing with the issue, which is to have some sort of classification of material from which all schools can benefit. As we know, some schools are more engaged with this issue than others. Some head teachers are more knowledgeable than others, and some governing bodies are more proactive than others. We need a level playing field, so that all schools have access to good advice without having to go out and seek the experts. Schools have said to me that access to experts is simply not there. When they talk to their county council about what to do on this subject, it often has no real advice for them, other than to point them in the direction of unlicensed material.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. It is an excellent idea for outside bodies to come into primary and secondary schools. In Northern Ireland, we have an organisation called Love for Life, which is approved by the health service and the education board to go into schools to teach children about relationships. However, it does not go into primary schools to deal with the explicit details to which she has alluded. Bringing in an outside body is one way of doing it, as I am sure she will agree.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I agree that that has some merit and is worth consideration. Equally, there is a counter argument that for very young children in primary schools, it is a fundamental principle to have one teacher for almost every subject. When introducing such an enormous topic as sex and relationship education to very young children, there is a case for sticking with the teacher pupils know and are often very fond of. To bring in an outside expert, no matter how sensitive and well informed, could be counter-productive in primary schools.

What should we be talking about in schools? We are talking today about sex and relationship education. I agree completely that, when we deal with the issue of teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, our schoolchildren have to be aware of those issues and how to prevent them. Sex education is vital. However, relationship education is equally, if not more, important, particularly at a young age. Nowhere in the material that I have seen has there been any emphasis on building relationships. We should be teaching children primarily about relationships. We should be teaching them about emotions and responsibility. Our children need to understand that as well as fun, happiness and contentment, sex and relationships can evoke other feelings, such as jealousy, sadness and guilt. Our children need to understand that sex is almost always better when you are in love, or when you are in a committed relationship. Unfortunately, a lot of what is being taught at the moment does not address those issues.

Finally, I want to consider who needs to have a say in what our children are being taught. I am concerned about the number of constituents who have said to me that they had no idea what was being taught to their children, and that when they found out they were horrified. I have three children. I allowed them to go to their RSE lessons and I have no idea what they were taught. I put my hand up to being a busy mum who was invited in one morning, on a work day, to watch what the children would be watching and who did not take the school up on the opportunity. The expectation that all parents have is that school knows best—it knows what it is doing, is best placed to do this, and that that is great as it gets me out of that extraordinarily awkward conversation.

Many parents have told me that they were completely horrified when they finally found out what their children were being taught. I believe that schools are acting with the best of honourable intentions, and I am not about to lay the blame at head teachers’ doors. Parents must share the responsibility, and there must, therefore, be better communication with them. They need proactively to know what their children are being taught on such a sensitive issue. Only parents can decide whether their child is ready to be taught about this subject. All of us who are parents and grandparents know that children mature at very different ages, and something that one seven-year-old finds funny and entertaining and is mature enough to deal with might not be appropriate for another.

Parents often simply trust schools and assume that they know best. That is no bad thing, but we must help schools to make the best decisions. Teachers and governors must make the decisions about whether material is appropriate, just as parents must be aware of what their children are being taught. We have the assumption that if parents are uncomfortable with the material they can opt out of SRE lessons for their children, but there should be the assumption that parents opt in, particularly for primary school children. Parents have to opt in to music lessons, school trips and even school lunches; no one assumes that they can take a child rock climbing or to a music concert without explicit consent.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Simpson]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the research papers with which we have been presented include an article from The Times Educational Supplement of 13 May 2011, which makes it clear that almost six in 10 parents do not think that sex education should be taught to children at school?

[Stephen Gilbert]

There are occasions when hon. Members have to say, “On that point I have to disagree.” Why would one not teach geology? Should parents be given an opt-out from geology or from history? If we are to create happy, confident, rounded citizens, we need to be embedding sexual relationship education from the earliest possible age. Of course, we need to do so in an appropriate way; it must be suitably delivered, well resourced and properly monitored. However, we must move away from the “No sex, please, we’re British” attitude, which has so damaged individuals and segments of our society. We need to demystify sex and relationship education. We need to see it as a spectrum and I think we need to move it on to a statutory basis. I will be interested to hear the Minister’s views on that. Rather than the three Rs, we should think of a fourth R: relationship and sex education.