Oral Answers to Questions

Claire Perry Excerpts

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

3. What plans he has to introduce new rolling stock and infrastructure on the railway.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

Network Rail is delivering an unprecedented £38 billion investment programme for the period from 2014 to 2019, which will transform the infrastructure on the busiest parts of Britain’s rail network. Passengers will also see significant improvements in rolling stock, thanks to the Government’s unprecedented investment and the changes to the franchising programme. This will allow passengers across the country to benefit from the enhanced investment.

[Christopher Pincher]

I am grateful for that answer, but on the question of infrastructure, my constituents in Drayton Bassett are concerned by comments that have been made by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) that the HS2 marshalling yard proposed for Washwood Heath might be moved. Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Government believe that Washwood Heath is the right site for such a marshalling yard and that they do not propose to move it?

[Claire Perry]

I can confirm that Washwood Heath is absolutely the right location for the rolling stock maintenance depot. This was confirmed by the High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Bill Select Committee’s announcement in December, and it would be a brave and foolhardy politician who suggested for political reasons that anything else might be appropriate.

[Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op)]

I met representatives of East Midlands Trains this week to discuss the electrification of the line to Corby. I am concerned that when that happens there might no longer be any services running north from Corby on the Manton line. Will the Minister meet me to discuss what options there are to maintain those northbound services towards Oakham and Melton Mowbray?

[Claire Perry]

Yes, of course.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Simon Burns. [Interruption.] Mr Burns! [Laughter.]

[Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the question of infrastructure, will my hon. Friend impress on Network Rail the importance of building the loop line north of Witham during control period 6 to ensure and enhance capacity on rail services from Liverpool Street to Chelmsford, Ipswich and Norwich?

[Claire Perry]

I commend my right hon. Friend for his wakefulness this morning, and for his long-term campaigning on railways. Like me, he believes it is vital that additional investment should be carried forward beyond CP5 and into CP6, particularly to enhance capacity and improve journey times for the parts of East Anglia and Essex that he represents.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

Network Rail is now fully in the public sector. Will this improve public accountability and enable passengers to travel on safe, newer trains, and trains that are appropriate for the newly electrified lines?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Lady shares with me a firm commitment to ensuring that passengers have safe and better journeys. That is the point of this unprecedented level of investment. It is within the grasp of us all to hold Network Rail to account. It is an arm’s length public body, and we have a regulator that regulates its investment programme. Network Rail is also accountable to Members of Parliament just as it is to members of the public. She will be aware that we are holding a series of performance summits with the train operating companies and Network Rail, particularly relating to the routes that have shown the worst performance data over the past few months.

[Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend tell the House how the feasibility study on the West Anglia line, promised by the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), is being progressed?

[Claire Perry]

I believe that that is part of the whole aspiration for the Anglian upgrades relating to routes, investment and capacity, which has been nicely packaged in the “Norwich in 90” proposals. A series of consultations are currently taking place, and I will write to my right hon. Friend with specific updates on the point that he has raised.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

When it comes to the railways, it is always pie in the sky, or arm’s length, or somebody else’s fault. When is the Minister going to take responsibility for a Government who have done so little to get people in Yorkshire and the rest of the north of England moving around securely, safely and on time?

[Claire Perry]

I have respect for the hon. Gentleman and for many of his campaigns, but I am amazed that he can stand up and represent a party that did so little for the railways over 13 years. He described the predecessors in his seat as a bunch of trainspotters. Instead, he should be congratulating this Government on their investment programme and on the new intercity express programme trains that will benefit his constituency.

[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

I welcome the recent announcements on rolling stock for the network, but looked in vain for news of a replacement for the ancient trains used on the Tees Valley line. Will the Minister look at that matter urgently so that the Tees Valley city region gets the upgraded trains that it needs and deserves?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman is right to point out that there are many parts of the country, particularly in the north of England, where the rolling stock is simply not fit for purpose thanks to the franchise specifications let under the previous Government. We are looking at all specifications, including upgrading the inappropriate Pacers, which will be part of the franchising specification process he will see published in the next few weeks.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

Two weeks before the Christmas chaos at King’s Cross and Finsbury Park, the Transport Secretary said that he had “absolute confidence” in Network Rail’s ability to deliver the Government’s plans, but up and down the country, projects are delayed, over budget and at risk, while some passengers have been hit by fare rises of more than 30%. Forget Ministers’ confidence in other people, does this shambles not betray a total lack of leadership from this failing Government?

[Claire Perry]

I thought that the hon. Lady was going to celebrate the fact that her own station is receiving a £100 million upgrade. As she should know, there were more than 2,000 engineering sites over the holiday period. Two of them—particularly important ones—ran over time.

I want to address the points made by the hon. Member for Barnsley East (Michael Dugher) about comments I was alleged to have made in a column. Anyone who read that column over Christmas would have seen that I am far from pleased with railway performance. We must do better for passengers. Only a lowly headline writer at the Sunday People, an idiot or a politician who has no policies of his own would describe my words in such a way. This Government care about the railways. That lot think we are a bunch of trainspotters.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

4. What estimate he has made of the benefit-cost ratio of the High Speed 2 line north of Manchester.

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[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of variations in eligibility for young person or child fares on public transport.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

Mr Speaker, forgive me if this is a slightly long answer, but I am trying to cover both forms of public transport. On trains, fares for children under 16 are half of the adult fare and 16 to 25-year-olds can buy a young persons railcard providing a discount of one third off most adult fares. Bus operators, as the hon. Gentleman will know, set their own fares. The Department estimates that three quarters of under-16s and half of 16 to 19-year-olds in England receive a discount of at least one third, but there are variations across the country as local authorities must specify how they will support 16 to 19-year-olds, which may include specific financial support.

[Ian Lavery]

One of the failures of bus deregulation is that it allows bus companies to set their own fares. In my constituency, Arriva is exploiting young people by charging the full adult fare to 14-year-olds, yet only a few miles away that age limit rises to 16. Does the Minister agree that that is totally unjust and unfair, and will she agree to investigate?

[Claire Perry]

I have looked at the numbers, and I know that Arriva has a teencard that provides a 40% discount. I will certainly look at the age specification, but I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that this is a matter for local authorities. In Conservative-controlled Staffordshire, the Your Staffordshire card allows 11 to 19-year-olds to travel on any bus in the county for just £1. I suggest he takes this eloquent pitch to Labour-controlled Northumberland council.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that public transport, particularly buses, is essential and very important to young people, as it gives them the means of access to employment, training and education?

[Claire Perry]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. My 18-year-old daughter refuses to learn to drive because she is happy on the bus and the train.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. What progress the Government have made in increasing access for disabled people at railway stations.

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[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. What assessment he has made of the recent performance of train services on the great western main line.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

In the latest operating period to 3 January, the First Great Western public performance measure was 82.5%. The average for the previous year was 87.7%. Both measures are below the target of 90.3% set by the Office of Rail Regulation for this franchise. I am sure that, like me, the hon. Gentleman has heard Network Rail, the regulator and many MPs saying that this is not good enough.

[Stephen Doughty]

Is the Minister aware of the concerns expressed by the RMT, TSSA and other organisations and passenger groups about the future provision of buffet cars and guards on First Great Western services? Was she aware of those concerns before the Department awarded a direct award franchise to an extension to the First Great Western franchise?

[Claire Perry]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman, like me, is delighted that this line is receiving so much investment, in the form of billions of pounds for electrification and the new intercity express programme rolling stock to which he alludes, which will transform the passenger experience. I gently encourage him not to read the scaremongering press releases put out by the RMT. I have visited the IEP mock-ups. I have discussed in great detail what the franchising and catering capabilities will be. It is up to the operators to specify, and I am sure he will have seen the East Coast statements that it intends to offer an enhanced catering service on those trains when they are running. I am happy to discuss this further with the hon. Gentleman, but I suggest he looks at the facts, not the scaremongering.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister acknowledge that the present service on the First Great Western line is not good enough. As she will know as a south-west MP, one of the biggest issues is capacity. I know that new rolling stock is to be introduced, but will that be enough to address the terrible overcrowding issues, which I am sure her constituents have raised with her, as mine have with me?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that there is crowding. There was a great lack of investment in the line under the Government whom she supported. In addition to the IEPs, one and a half first class carriages are being declassified and standard class seating is being put in. It is happening now—I have sat in the 2,000th seat to be declassified. Although that is not the whole solution, I think we will see reduced overcrowding, particularly when passengers come in from Reading to Paddington, which is where trains can get extremely crowded.

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

10. What plans he has to improve existing railway lines and build new ones.

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[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

T5. The Department for Transport is consulting on removing the MOT exemption for HGVs based on Bute, Islay, Mull and Tiree, but the exemption is there for a very good reason: there are simply not enough HGVs on those islands to justify the cost of an authorised testing facility and the cost of taking an HGV to the mainland is very high. Will Ministers please stop this burden on island businesses?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

The hon. Gentleman knows that the consultation is being looked at on a Great Britain-wide basis and specific exemptions are indeed made for local service and delivery issues. I encourage him to continue eloquently to make the case for the existing exemption in his neck of the woods.

[Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

The rail Minister will know that, due to the rebuild of London Bridge station, overcrowding on Southeastern services into Cannon Street has reached dangerous levels. What was previously a poor service is now utterly abysmal. What immediate action will she take to ensure that every rush hour train into Cannon Street is formed of 12 cars, and can she guarantee that the old Thameslink rolling stock, which will become available towards the end of the year, will be used to increase capacity on those services?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Lady knows that there are potentially many solutions to solving the many problems caused by the unprecedented rebuild of one of London’s oldest stations. I am glad that, directly after these questions, she will join me at the performance summit, which is being held on a cross-party basis, with the operator, Network Rail and the regulators, where we will be able to hear answers from those specifically in charge of running the railways.

[Damian Green (Ashford) (Con)]

T8. The problems in the channel tunnel have led to the use of Operation Stack on the M20, which, as ever, is causing huge disruption to traffic in my constituency and across Kent. What progress is being made in finding an off-road solution to parking trucks when they cannot get across the channel?

Shrewsbury Railway Station

Claire Perry Excerpts

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) on securing this important debate on the maintenance and upgrading of Shrewsbury railway station. He has been an assiduous campaigner for better services from the station. We are delighted to have finally been able to provide a vital direct link to Shrewsbury station via Virgin train services after many years of lobbying from him and his colleagues. The link is far more convenient than changing trains halfway down to London, and I hope his constituents will recognise the vital role he played in bringing those services to his local station. I am delighted to hear that he is using the services and that they are well used. If it is not tempting fate, I hope he will be able to lobby me on further improvements to the service post-May.

Everyone is aware of the huge benefits that good railway services and, importantly, stations bring to the passengers, businesses and communities that we represent. Stations can and should be the heart of local communities, and my hon. Friend made a valid case, focusing on all the small details that are perhaps overlooked when one is designing an engineering plan for the network, but that are so vital to people who use the station. He is right about the importance of maintaining and upgrading Shrewsbury railway station in his constituency.

I will step through some of my hon. Friend’s concerns and try to address them directly. First, he asked who has responsibility for and takes pride in the station. I assure him that Network Rail and Arriva Trains Wales have joint responsibility, and they both feel a responsibility to passengers. I clarify that Arriva Trains Wales is the leaseholder for the station and, under the terms of the lease arrangement, is responsible for all works that do not require an operational shutdown at the station to be delivered. Arriva Trains Wales is responsible for cleanliness, decorating and the improvements to which he referred, whereas Network Rail is responsible for things such as changes to the canopies and broader upgrades. It is important that both companies are held to account for delivering those improvements and upgrades. I will go on to outline the planned improvements and who is taking responsibility for them.

My hon. Friend asked about cleanliness and organisation. Arriva Trains Wales has confirmed that a cleaning team is based at the station and operates every day. Station duty managers encourage their staff to report anything that is broken or faulty. I do not know whether this is in order, but I commend the team within the Department for Transport that has responsibility for this. One of my team, Mr Ochei, took it upon himself to go up to the station to investigate clearly and carefully some of the concerns. He illustrated the situation to me with clear photographs of the problems that my hon. Friend raises, such as the semi-industrial units, litter and vegetation. Following this debate, I will write to Arriva Trains Wales and Network Rail, citing the photographic evidence, to say, “Between you, you are responsible. I hope this can be raised at my hon. Friend’s meeting in February, but who is going to do this and by when?”

[Daniel Kawczynski]

I thank the Minister for the sterling work of her officials. It is testimony to the way she runs the Department and to the enthusiasm of her officials that they have taken the time and effort to go to Shrewsbury station. That is a great credit to her officials, whom I would like to thank.

[Claire Perry]

I thank my hon. Friend for thanking me and my officials. He will agree that a photograph tells a thousand words. The photographs were extremely helpful.

It is clear from my team’s visit that the station officials take pride in their station and are aware of the concerns. We were told again, and it has been reaffirmed, that Arriva Trains Wales and Network Rail have a positive and proactive working relationship in improving, identifying and fixing repairs, and they are delighted to have secured a meeting with my hon. Friend. I hope the meeting will cover the concerns and issues such as the Dana steps and the Dana passage.

My hon. Friend raised an important question about investment and the incentives for train operating companies to improve stations. Under the terms of their franchise, train operating companies have specific obligations against their leasehold requirements to maintain, upgrade and incentivise their stations. It is important always to be prepared to revisit such arrangements. If improvements are required, or if specific changes are needed, we are very happy to deal with them. Some £2 million of investment has been spent on the station over the past nine years, but I am sure that, like me, he is delighted that as much again is being spent over the current five-year capital period, including on the refurbishment of the existing toilets and the introduction of a disability toilet—I am told that work is ongoing and should be finished soon. Money is also being spent on refurbishing the station canopies, which he said are in rather poor order, decorating the external platform areas and resurfacing the station car park. Outside the terms of the lease, although it is appropriate that we discuss it, the Dana footbridge refurbishment has been costed at £800,000, and it should be delivered in 2015-16. I hope that between the two of us, we can secure delivery dates for those improvements so my hon. Friend can reassure his constituents about when they will happen.

It is important to acknowledge that money has been spent on a brand spanking new waiting room, as my hon. Friend said—I have pictures of it—and a new ticket hall. Those are important improvements. The Access for All programme is delivering a lift on platform 3, which is important for passengers who suffer from disabilities. We are delighted that Shrewsbury is now a step-free station. It also has additional help points and CCTV cameras to assist with safety issues.

A lot of improvement is going on, and there is more to come. There is clear accountability, but we are always willing to do more and listen to hon. Members who have concerns about their stations. I hate to use this phrase, but we are getting there with some parts of the railways. We are benefiting from an unprecedented level of investment in the trains, the stations and the track.

We are prepared to continue to look at the contractual relationship between Network Rail, the regulator and the operators, and will continue to improve it. We will also look at the penalties, which my hon. Friend mentioned. The ultimate penalty is to be penalised under the franchise. I am not aware that a situation has ever been so serious that that has happened, but we will look at the penalties to ensure we have the right regime. In my experience, if there is an assiduous MP, a committed Network Rail local management team and a strong station team, improvements can be ironed out and delivered, but it is important that we continue to focus on those issues.

My hon. Friend asked whether the work is being delivered on time. I can confirm that two areas have been delayed: the toilets and the canopy works. All other works have gone as planned and have been completed on time. There is, unfortunately, a large hole on platform 3, which is not a danger to passengers, although it is unsightly. It is a Network Rail responsibility. It is due to larger engineering issues coming to light once the initial works were started. It would be helpful to focus on getting it fixed as soon as possible. Scaffolding is still in place on the river bridge due to engineering issues that Network Rail uncovered.

Part of the problem, as I have discovered in my few months in the job, is that many parts of the network have not been touched in decades—sometimes in hundreds of years. Although an unprecedented amount of money is being spent, problems are sometimes uncovered in the process. It is absolutely right that those symptoms of decades of underinvestment are now being addressed, but we must ensure that they are dealt with quickly and appropriately for passengers. I will write to Arriva Trains Wales and Network Rail after the debate to ask for clarity about the completion dates for those works, and I will mention the Dana steps and the Dana bridge.

My hon. Friend made an important point about safety and antisocial behaviour, about which I am particularly concerned. I am disappointed to hear that that tract of land is proving a draw for antisocial elements in the community. I have visited the town, and it is the most wonderful place. It should be visited by tourists, not people determined to commit crime. Neither Network Rail nor Arriva Trains Wales has received complaints about antisocial behaviour, although that is not to say that it is not happening. We have been alerted to the problem, and Network Rail will continue to engage with the local council and, crucially, the British Transport police, who have a long history of working with local police forces, to deal with antisocial behaviour in and around stations. Network Rail also informed me that it is investigating improvements to toilets on the platforms and to the passenger subway.

An additional £2 million is being spent on improvements at Shrewsbury station. Issues such as the canopy and the netting will be addressed, and the Dana footbridge will certainly be dealt with. Passengers will perhaps most notice that Arriva Trains Wales has redecorated all the platforms in 2015-16.

I second my hon. Friend’s point about flying the Union flag. I am proud to be introducing Union flags on our driving licences, and it is right that all parts of our great country share pride in the flag. I urge him to raise that issue at his meeting and suggest that a brand spanking new flag be flown at the station in time for the tourist season this summer.

In conclusion, this is an exciting time for the railways. The Government’s ambition to invest in the railway network is unprecedented. Improvements are being delivered, and there are more to come. If anyone has a sense that there is any complacency about the disruption that passengers are suffering across all parts of the network as a result of the upgrade works, they should be in no doubt that the Department takes it incredibly seriously. Unless passengers see the benefits and feel that the investment is being made for them, the money is frankly not being well spent. We are moving not boxes, but people.

I hope my hon. Friend has a productive meeting in February. I look forward to receiving his feedback, and I hope he manages to persuade Arriva Trains Wales to fly the Union flag with pride.

Network Rail

Claire Perry Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mark Reckless]

My hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Douglas Carswell) spoke to me yesterday, and I spoke to the Minister. I understand that agreement is forthcoming from her as well as myself.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

That is correct, Mr Crausby.

[Mr David Crausby (in the Chair)]

It has been agreed. I call Douglas Carswell.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond to this debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) on securing it. This is a really important issue, and he and his colleague, the hon. Member for Clacton (Douglas Carswell), were right to raise it on the Floor of the House last week. I am sure that the constituents of the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood will be delighted with his new-found interest in the railways. It did strike me, in doing some digging, that before last week he had made only two mentions of his local trains in this Parliament. One was to express his profound support for HS2 and what it would do for his constituency, and one was to talk, quite rightly, about the inexcusable fact that constituents on his local franchise were paying RPI plus 3%—a policy that this Government have ended.

[Mark Reckless]

The Government’s ending of RPI plus 3%, for which my constituents were used as guinea pigs, and going to RPI plus 1% and now RPI is a positive thing that I very strongly welcome. Did the Minister consult her right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs Villiers) on the many discussions that I had with her about the railways when she was the Minister responsible?

[Claire Perry]

No, I relied on the public record, which I think it is important to do. In fact, the hon. Member for Clacton has spoken more in the last week on the railways than he has done in the entirety of this Parliament, because I can find no record in the public discourse—

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On resuming—

[Claire Perry]

I am sure the constituents of the hon. Member for Clacton are delighted that he has finally spoken up on railways, because my little trawl suggests that he has not mentioned railways in this Parliament.

[Douglas Carswell]

When I was a Conservative Member of Parliament, I was bound by the Whip, and of course the Minister and her boss in the Department for Transport were then running the Whips Office. It was therefore much more difficult for me to speak freely in the interest of my constituents, and I am grateful that I am now at liberty to do so.

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman suggests that he could not have asked questions about fares, services and station refurbishments, but he managed 42 mentions of the EU. It is rather depressing that his last comment on the railways dates from seven and a half years ago. Presumably, he could have spoken in that Parliament—no matter. I am delighted to welcome his nascent and new-found interest in the railways, which raises several questions. What is his party’s policy? The UK Independence party’s 2010 manifesto, of course, called for three high-speed lines, not two, with no mention of cost control. We will leave that point and move on.

I propose to make three sets of remarks this afternoon. I will first canter through Network Rail’s current governance structure and correct the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood, or at least answer some of his questions. Secondly, I will ask whether there is any evidence of governance failure. Lastly, I will review recent events, on which there are valid questions that we all need to ask.

In December 2013, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the Office for National Statistics made an independent decision to reclassify the Network Rail balance sheet from the private sector to the public sector, which changed nothing in terms of operational performance; it was an attempt to put public debt on the public balance sheet, which I strongly support. The reclassification does not change the industry structure or the day-to-day operations of the rail network, and it has no effect on fares, performance, punctuality, safety or timetables.

[Douglas Carswell]

Will the Minister give way?

[Claire Perry]

It would be helpful if I could make a little progress.

The reclassification rightly raises the question what the governance should look like, which is why the framework agreement was published in September 2014. The agreement specifically sets out what the relationship between Network Rail and the DFT looks like, and it tries to achieve two things. First, it tries to achieve a level of operational independence. All political parties, including the hon. Gentleman’s party I am sure, would say that Ministers should not be running trains and that there should be an element of independence and control. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Clacton is chuntering away from a sedentary position, and I am trying to answer some of the questions. He is not particularly interested in railways, but perhaps he might be after today.

For many people, including the UK Independence party, it is not appropriate to have Ministers and, indeed, officials running the railway network; it is appropriate that Network Rail operates as an arm’s length body. However, it is important to deliver accountability and correct governance and structure. Under the new framework agreement, the Secretary of State for Transport, as a special board member, has levers by which to steer Network Rail, including the right to agree business plans and to approve Network Rail’s remuneration envelope.

[Mark Reckless]

Did the Secretary of State not previously have those powers as a special board member? Are those powers not due to him under Network Rail’s articles of association, rather than under the framework agreement?

[Claire Perry]

The issue is whether they have been exercised, and since this new structure was introduced, they have indeed been exercised. The Department, representing the Secretary of State, has started to do appropriate things such as attending annual general meetings and being involved in board meetings.

[Mark Reckless]

Will the Minister give way?

[Claire Perry]

I will make a little more progress, because the hon. Gentleman has asked a lot of questions.

In extreme cases, the Secretary of State has the power to remove the chair or, indeed, to become the sole member of Network Rail. So what is the role? The Secretary of State determines the rail investment strategy and the statements of funding available, and he works with the Office of Rail Regulation to monitor the timely delivery of major projects. Ministers effectively set the high-level strategic and spending approach to the railways and, ultimately, are accountable for the model of delivery and the operation of rail works for the country and for passengers.

Interesting suggestions have been proposed for improving governance. Crucially—this perhaps has not been conveyed clearly, so let me make it very clear—the Department is completely focused on maintaining and reviewing the appropriate role for governance. If governance needs to change to deliver improvements, it will change but based on the work done up until September 2014, and on the analysis of Network Rail’s board and the role of its public members, the current diagnosis is that it does not need to change to deliver the railway improvements that we all want to see.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the number of public members. As I am sure he knows, the number has been cut from 90 to 45. There was an independent external review of whether those members were carrying out their functions effectively, and it was found that they were performing their duties. On whether there is evidence that Network Rail’s governance is currently failing, it is right to raise those important issues, but I think the diagnosis is that Network Rail’s governance arrangements are working appropriately. We must carefully consider the role of the public members. It could have been said in the past that public members did not have the specific relevant experience to carry out that governance role, but they have now been appointed from relevant sectors and have experience and understanding of corporate governance.

The hon. Gentleman referred to some of the compensation arrangements for senior managers. I am sure, like me, he welcomes the fact that the bonuses paid in this year of Network Rail’s operation will be one tenth of those paid in the last year of the previous Administration. Given that the company’s role in carrying out its business has not changed—as a reminder, it is a company of 35,000 individuals with an income statement of some £7 billion a year, and it has £38 billion of investment proposals to deliver over the next five years— the question for the hon. Gentleman is: how much compensation is appropriate to deliver such highly important investment for the country?

[Mark Reckless]

What has changed, now that Network Rail has become a public sector body and its debt is on the Government’s balance sheet, is that it does not face the market risk of going bust, being insolvent or falling back on itself when its bond obligations cannot be satisfied.

[Claire Perry]

Like me, the hon. Gentleman has a background in finance. He should therefore know that investors will always have considered that debt to have been effectively underwritten by the public sector, so the reclassification is simply a formalisation of what I suspect savvy investors have known for many a year.

There is no evidence that Network Rail’s governance structure is inappropriate or failing. However, I suspect that the hon. Gentleman’s new-found interest in its governance may be a result of the disruption after Christmas at several mainline stations and, more recently, at London Bridge station, which many people living in his constituency use on a daily basis. I am incredibly grateful to him for giving me the opportunity once again to state very clearly what passengers should expect.

The Secretary of State made it clear at the time that the disruption at King’s Cross and Paddington immediately after Christmas was totally unacceptable. In my view, the situation was inexcusable. Passengers deserve a reliable rail service, clear information and rapid help if things go wrong. I am sorry that, in this case, they did not get those things.

Across the industry, we have to be able to trust Network Rail’s ability to complete vital engineering works on time, and it is essential that the lessons that started to be spelled out in the report, which the hon. Gentleman slightly traduced, are learned. Work continues on finding the most appropriate time of year to do engineering works. I say again—this was said last week—that Network Rail carried out its busiest engineering programme ever over this holiday period. There were 2,000 work sites.

[Douglas Carswell]

The Minister says that the failures were inexcusable, but she is now excusing the failure. She says that she is sorry for what happened, so what is she actually going to change about Network Rail’s governance to ensure that it does not happen again?

[Claire Perry]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for railways, which marks a rapid change from his former portfolio of interests.

[Mark Reckless]

Answer the questions.

[Claire Perry]

I am keen to answer the questions, if the hon. Gentleman will allow me to proceed.

As I was saying, an unprecedented amount of engineering work went on over the holiday period, because the main driver of problems on the railways is twofold. First, passenger growth is unprecedented. About 1.6 billion passenger journeys are now made every year, twice as many as before privatisation. Secondly, successive Governments have underinvested in the railways for many a long year.

The hon. Gentleman asked about London Bridge station, as did the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd). That station is 176 years old, and frankly, it has been ignored, although it is one of the busiest pinch points into London. That work is finally being done, so that residents across the south and south-east can transit in and out of London much more effectively.

[Jim Dowd]

I congratulate the Minister on organising a meeting next week with the principal train operating companies running into London Bridge—Southern and Southeastern. Can she confirm that we will also have an opportunity to consider the position regarding London Bridge itself and the colossal debacle that my constituents and many others have had to experience for 10 days now, with little sign of the problems abating?

[Claire Perry]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman; I think that he uses a good adjective. I have visited the station, and my officials have been there. The Secretary of State himself went there during rush hour. We are extremely concerned that the engineering works, which are fantastically overdue, are delivered in a way that does not inconvenience passengers. That gets to the crux of the matter.

This is not a governance problem; it is a failure to work across industry, with passenger benefit front and central. Enormous operational improvements will clearly be delivered by this Government’s unprecedented £38 billion investment in the railways, which is long overdue and will benefit all Members in this room, but it must be delivered by thinking first and foremost about how passengers will use the network and about the benefits for them.

As we saw in the McNulty report published several years ago, the challenge for British railways is to do what we suggested then and join up the objectives of Network Rail and the train operating companies to carry on this unprecedented amount of investment, as we know can be done across the network. I am happy to reassure Members that the Government are committed across the board not only to ensuring operational independence, but, clearly, to delivering better services for passengers in the running of the railways. I am also happy to reassure Members that we remain committed to our huge programme of planned improvements, including the entire rebuild of Rochester station by the end of this year and £120 million of signalling works in east Kent, which I am sure the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood is rising to congratulate the Government on providing.

[Mark Reckless]

I am indeed. I rise to congratulate the Government and Network Rail on the new station in Rochester, which will be fantastic. The Minister talks about working together with the operators. The new station is half a mile or so closer to London, and significant investment has been put into signalling changes. It would be useful to know how many minutes that is likely to knock off train times from Rochester into London. Can Network Rail and Southeastern work together more closely on planning that for the new timetable?

[Claire Perry]

I do not know the answer, but I am happy to find out and write to the hon. Gentleman.

Haulage: Road Tank Vehicle Compliance

Claire Perry Excerpts

Thursday 18th December 2014 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

Further to the written ministerial statement given by my hon. Friend, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Robert Goodwill) on 24 October 2013, the Department for Transport has continued to work with the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC) and industry to resolve an issue around the incorrect certification of fuel tankers manufactured in South Africa and certified as meeting international standards by Bureau Veritas. Following a detailed investigation these tankers were found not to be in full compliance with internationally agreed regulations (the European agreement concerning the international carriage of dangerous goods by road—“ADR”).

Since the previous statement, about 100 new replacement tankers have been entering into service, reducing the number that are not in full compliance to around 130 tankers. During this time the Department for Transport commissioned a £1.5 million research programme to inform decisions about the future use of these vehicles. Based on the outcome of the research published today on the Department’s website www.gov.uk/dft, the date by which those tankers built after the middle of 2010 are to be withdrawn—about 70 tankers—will be extended subject to the outcome of further work to establish acceptance criteria that may allow an individual tanker to continue in use for up to 12 years after entering into service. Those tankers still in service that were built before the middle of 2010 are to be withdrawn as originally planned a year ago.

Over the same period new tankers from the manufacturer have been certified as ADR compliant by a different tank inspection body for supply to the UK, starting in the next few months. In the meantime, the Department has an ongoing dialogue with industry over plans to resolve this issue using a process that maintains fuel supplies while upholding safety.

Operator Licensing and Roadworthiness Testing

Claire Perry Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2014 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

I am today announcing the publication of two related public consultations that will close on 5 March 2015.

HGV Periodic Testing and Inspections Exemptions

Goods Vehicle Operator Licensing Exemptions Consultation

Historically certain heavier vehicles have been exempt from operator licensing and/or road worthiness testing. Some of the current exemptions are proposed for removal or modification either because of possible non-compliance with EU legislation or to correct anomalies between certain vehicles types that are currently exempt and those that are not.

The HGV testing scheme provides exemption for 37 classes of vehicle. We are proposing to remove or modify exemptions covering 10 categories of vehicle.

We are considering a modification to exemption number 15 in the current list of exemptions under operator licensing. Vehicles using this exemption operate in direct competition with other non-exempt vehicles and perform the same core function. Due to the commonalities between operator licensing exemptions and annual test exemptions the consultations will run in tandem.

The measures proposed are expected to improve road safety, update the legislation to reflect modern practices and ensure a fairer and more uniform approach for operators.

I have placed copies of the documents in the Libraries of both Houses and they will also be available on: http://www.gov.uk and http://www.parliament.uk/ writtenstatements

Motoring Services Strategy

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 8th December 2014 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

In a written statement to the House on 15 August 2013, the then Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond), announced that the Department for Transport would undertake market engagement and a procurement competition to find a commercial partner to form a joint venture to grow the work of the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA).

I now inform the House that the competition has not been successful in identifying a suitable joint venture that would achieve the objectives of both partners.

The VCA will continue to provide vehicle testing and certification services, as it does at present. The Department will consult with a wide range of stakeholders before considering any alternative proposals.

HGV Speed Limits

Claire Perry Excerpts

Friday 28th November 2014 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

I have today (28 November 2014) announced that the Government intend, following a public consultation, to increase the national speed limit for heavy goods vehicles of more than 7.5 tonnes on dual carriageway roads from 50 mph to 60 mph.

This complements the decision that the Government have already announced to raise the national speed limit for HGVs over 7.5 tonnes on single carriageway roads, and is part of a wider package of associated measures that the Government are bringing forward to continue to increase economic efficiency and remove outdated restrictions.

The national speed limit increase on dual carriageways will modernise an outdated regulation dating from the 1980s, better reflecting the capabilities of modern HGVs. It will help to free professional hauliers from unnecessary regulation.

The change will ensure that HGV speed limits are proportionate and better aligned with the limits for HGVs on motorways and single carriageways, and with other vehicles such as coaches and cars towing caravans. Our evidence indicates that actual average speeds are unlikely to change in response to the change in national speed limit. Our impact assessment, which has been scrutinised by independent experts, concludes that there is not expected to be an adverse effect on road safety, but we will be monitoring the impacts closely.

The speed limit increases for HGVs will be implemented via a change in the law to be put to Parliament during the next few months, with implementation scheduled for 6 April 2015. The existing limits continue to apply until the change has been put into effect. The amended speed limit will cover dual carriageway roads in England and Wales, unless specific lower local or urban speed limits are in effect.

The Department for Transport is publishing the summary of dual carriageway HGV speed limit consultation responses. The Department is also publishing an impact assessment.

Copies of these documents will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Great Eastern Main Line

Claire Perry Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. I warmly and sincerely congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) on securing this vital debate on required future improvements in this vibrant region of the UK. I pay tribute both to the Members present today and to the team that has worked so hard with them on the report over the past year. I had the pleasure of meeting members of the team, particularly Mark Pendlington, who leads the New Anglia local enterprise partnership. I know that many others have also been involved in putting together this excellent piece of work.

The report is particularly helpful in that it sets out the underlying value that proper infrastructure development can bring. We are good at modelling transport benefits, but capturing the gross value added and the broader economic benefit is more difficult. However, the report is an exemplar of how to do that. The analysis will help to reinforce the need for and benefits of the vital investments in the transport system that serves the cities and communities of East Anglia, which, as so eloquently pointed out by my hon. Friend, is the UK’s second largest region in terms of economic contribution and is focused on high-value, white-hot growth industries, such as life sciences and biotech.

Of course, it is not only this region that needs rail investment. As my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) pointed out, there is under-investment right across the railway network. In the past 20 years, we have seen record numbers of passengers taking record numbers of journeys. In some cases, however, the railways have kept up. Satisfaction, punctuality and safety have all increased, and EU figures found that we have the most improved railway in Europe. Despite that, extraordinary growth in demand coupled with a lag in infrastructure investment means that we face overcrowding in some parts of the country and areas where journey times may increase. The great thing is that, as a coalition Government, we are finally realising the vital role of investment in transport infrastructure. We are seeing record levels of railway investment and the biggest investment in rail and rolling stock since Victorian times, with £38 billion being spent over the next five years on maintaining, upgrading and improving the network.

[Mr Andrew Turner (in the Chair)]

Order. I wonder whether the Minister could face the Chair.

[Claire Perry]

Forgive me, Mr Turner. You are quite right to correct me.

It is an opportune time to review the case for investment in the region, which is why the report is so timely. We have already committed to £170 million of track and signalling improvements on the Great Eastern main line next year and have agreed a package of improvements with the Abellio Greater Anglia franchise, including additional services between Stansted and Cambridge and refreshed trains on the Norwich to London route. I was joined by hon. Friends on a visit to road test some of the improvements. In fact, there is a photo somewhere of my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich trying out the new loo—in a mock-up capacity only. It is good to see that we are not standing still and waiting for investment; we are upgrading in line with what passengers require, which means simple things such as new toilets that do not leak, new carpets and seat covers, plug sockets and new lighting. Regarding wi-fi, which is available to all customers on inter-city services and free to first-class passengers, we are trying to find out the future deployment plans. I agree with my hon. Friends that it is an important part of the package going forward and will write to them.

Abellio Greater Anglia will work with the industry to develop and deliver all the Government’s control period 5 projects, including Crossrail, Great Eastern main line infrastructure improvements, improvements to the Ely area, Stratford to Angel Road capacity improvements, a new station at Lea Bridge, and additional peak capacity in 2014 to 2019 into Kings Cross and Liverpool Street to meet forecast commuter growth. There will also be additional freight capacity. We have not discussed freight, but it is an exceptionally important part of the railway mix, and we are considering ways of unblocking lines to allow both and freight and passenger trains to run. This is an incredibly opportune time for such a report. My boss the Secretary of State and I have both read it, and we are looking carefully at how the improvements might be delivered.

I commend the work that the group behind the report has done to unblock some of the long-held barriers of party political or cross-county agendas. It has been refreshing to see a strong cross-party and cross-county approach to the work. My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich asked whether I had received any representations from the Opposition Front-Bench team, or indeed any Opposition Member, on this subject, but the answer is no. I am unsurprised, however, given that the previous Government electrified only eight miles of track in 13 years and failed to realise the valuable role that transport plays in building economic growth in regions across the country.

[Chloe Smith]

Does the Minister agree that it is a great shame that Opposition Members are not present to speak for themselves on the matter?

[Claire Perry]

It is a great shame, but it does not surprise me.

The Government will now be asking Network Rail how to progress the detailed development of the case that has been eloquently made for the line-speed changes, using the funding provided in the current rail investment strategy, to fund the best-value-for-money elements for completion by 2019. The opportunity for shorter journey times will be included in the development of the franchise to 2016, which is to be awarded from October of that year onwards. That could lead to bidders for the new franchise being asked specifically in their proposals how to address the requirements set out in the “Norwich in 90” report, in particular the totemic achievement of the 90-minute travel time. We propose to publish the consultation for the next East Anglia franchise on 1 December 2014, so it is an important time for anyone who wants to make further representations. In future franchise competitions, we expect bidders to give weight to both financial and quality considerations of rolling stock, focusing on passengers.

It is an exciting time for the rail industry across the UK. I heartily welcome the report, which represents an excellent forensic analysis of what can be unlocked with relatively small investment. I look forward to working with colleagues in taking the recommendations forward.

[Ben Gummer]

Does the Minister agree that letting the franchise in 2016 is a critical moment for ordering new rolling stock? If that were delayed, the report’s contents could not be delivered.

[Claire Perry]

My hon. Friend will be reassured to know that the new franchising timetable that my Department has put in place is running like clockwork—like a punctual train—so we anticipate that we will stick to the timetable.

[Robert Halfon]

Will the Minister give way?

[Claire Perry]

Just briefly, as I want to make a point about a visit that I am making on Friday.

[Robert Halfon]

Will the Minister confirm that she will write to me regarding my points about the West Anglia main line and Harlow?

[Claire Perry]

I was just moving on to what I am going to do. I will be delighted to write to or, even better, meet my hon. Friend to talk specifically about improvements for his hard-pressed commuters.

My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich will be delighted to hear that I will be in his city—[Interruption.] Excuse me, his town.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

Village?

[Claire Perry]

Town, definitely, sir. I will be in my hon. Friend’s town on Friday, where I look forward to attending the Suffolk rail conference and hearing about the importance of investment in the region and understanding a little more about what passengers require.

In conclusion, the report is a wonderful piece of work. I pay tribute to all those involved and look forward to working with my hon. Friends in the room—it would be lovely to have some input from Opposition Members on such an important issue—in trying to implement what is feasible and practicable.

Ministerial Correction

Claire Perry Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

I would like to inform the House that a statement I made on 29 October 2014 during an Adjournment debate on South West Trains, Official Report, column 106WH, was incorrect. During the speech I stated that:

“We are seeing the most rapid rise in travel of anywhere in Europe. We have the safest and most punctual railways in Europe. We have the most improved railways in Europe, according to passengers. We are seeing an enormous rise in demand for these services...”

While we do have the safest major railway in Europe, as well as the most improved railway in Europe according to the European Commission, the statement on punctuality cannot be substantiated. While we do not have comparable statistics that show how our railway is currently ranked for punctuality, we can say that UK rail passengers are among the most satisfied in Europe with train punctuality and reliability.

South West Trains

Claire Perry Excerpts

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry)]

Another great train analogy, Dr McCrea. It is a pleasure to work with you in your capacity as Chairman.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on his refreshment of his ongoing assiduous focus on his train services. He certainly brings gusto and gumption to his campaigning on this issue for his constituents. I, like him, feel incredibly strongly about the points he raises, and I am doing my best in this new and enjoyable role, with the help of my superb team, to look at these things on a factual, common-sense basis. I, like him, travel on the train and have to explain to people why we say things are getting better when for some of them they are definitely not.

In one way, my hon. Friend would share with me the view that the huge demand we are seeing, with a doubling of passenger numbers since privatisation—numbers are rising by 5%, 6%, 7%, 8%, 9% or 10% in some parts of the country—is perversely a measure of success. We are seeing the most rapid rise in travel of anywhere in Europe. We have the safest and most punctual railways in Europe. We have the most improved railways in Europe, according to passengers. We are seeing an enormous rise in demand for these services. Clapham Junction, which he goes through and which I know well, sees 23 million people changing trains there every year. The South West franchise area is the busiest railway in Europe, and Waterloo is the busiest station in the UK. I was down there this morning, celebrating the 40th anniversary of the young person’s railcard, and it was teeming.

[Caroline Dinenage]

Does the Minister agree that it is not just about capacity? The problem is that if we are to see economic investment in the parts of the country and the parts of the south that really need it for regeneration, we need faster and better train routes. The journey between Portsmouth and London takes the same time as the journey from London to Doncaster, which is two and a half times as far. That is just not good enough for commuters on the south coast.

[Claire Perry]

As always, my hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. I have travelled that route, visiting one of her neighbouring constituencies, and I was struck by the pace at which some of those trains travel.

To return to the particular service mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton, the 7.32 train from Woking to Waterloo is, I think, the second most crowded passenger journey in the UK. I have been on that journey. I am in the process of mystery shopping the top 10 most crowded routes to see for myself what they are like. On that particular day, the operating company took four carriages out of the service for operational reasons, because of problems the day before. That meant that we were leaving passengers at the station pretty much all the way along the line.

It is incredibly important that the Government tackle these issues and deliver value for money in the eyes of passengers. My hon. Friends have alluded to that. The good news is that the Government recognise that. For the first time in a generation, we are reinvesting real money in the railways, with £38 billion being spent over this capital period to the end of 2019. That is the biggest investment in rail and rolling stock since Victorian times.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton pointed out, the franchise that we are debating was, like so many others, let under a previous Administration who thought that electrifying nine miles of track in 13 years was good enough. The franchises were let with no provision for growth and investment, which resulted in a huge squeeze for passengers. One of the things I am very proud of is that the Chancellor has for the second year delivered a real-terms freeze on fares, as well as scrapping the flex that enabled companies to put up their prices outside the regulated boundary willy-nilly. This Government understand value for money, unlike the previous Government.

The challenge that my hon. Friend outlined is how to pay for the investment, which gets to his point about subsidy versus premiums across the network. He does the analysis, as I do, so he knows that there are two ways to pay for investment in the railway: general taxation and a contribution from those using the railway. Only about 8% of commuters use the railway to get to work; twice as many take the bus and many more still walk, cycle or take their cars. Taxpayers of course contribute substantially to investment in railways through general taxation. In some cases, passengers contribute as well. Taxpayers and fare payers are often the same people, so they are right to feel aggrieved, particularly when their services are not running.

In general, the challenge as to which franchises are in receipt of subsidy and which are generating premiums is an operational negotiation at the time of letting the franchise and as patterns change as services unfold. Overall, however, the McNulty review found substantial operating costs right across the railways—far more than our European comparators—that need to be driven out, which we are working hard with Network Rail and the operating companies to achieve.

My hon. Friends each hit the nail on the head. Passengers often do not feel that they are getting value for money. They travel on slow, crowded trains and cannot understand why timetables get messed up and why the network’s resilience can fail if there is a fatality or some operational problem. All my hon. Friends will be delighted to hear that part of the £38 billion investment commitment is being spent on the South West Trains network. Just a few weeks ago, I was on the platform at Waterloo with South West Trains and its Network Rail alliance colleagues, Siemens and Angel Trains, to announce that 150 new vehicles are currently being made to be put into use on the franchise by the start of 2018. The introduction of the new trains will lead to the cascading of existing fleets, generating enough seats for 24,000 additional peak-time passengers. That is in addition to the carriages that are starting to arrive now which will also deliver additional seats.

My hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton made an interesting comparison with the rules for movement of livestock versus the space available for people. He and I have seen how crowded trains can be. It is not like being on a tube train, with another coming along behind. People are being made late for work if they cannot board their train. Part of calculating overcrowding is based on duration of journey. There is a strong expectation that nobody travelling for more than 20 minutes should be standing beyond that point. It is not always achieved, but that is the sort of standard that we seek.

My hon. Friend mentioned the work at Waterloo station, which is not only about new trains but about new platform capacity. Much of the network’s signalling needs to be renewed, which is happening. It is also important that the four unused platforms at the former Waterloo International Eurostar terminal are brought back into service. A few winters ago, I took my children to see the “The Railway Children”, which was a marvellous production featuring a steam train coming into the station. How strange it was that platforms at the busiest station in Britain were being used for theatre rather than letting people get on and off trains. That vital piece of infrastructure is now being restored for railway use and will be able to accommodate longer trains on platforms 1 to 4, removing a constraint that has bedevilled commuter journeys from my hon. Friends’ constituencies for many years.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister will want to get through the rest of what she has to impart, but I have two questions. First, given the investment and work going into expansion at Waterloo, has she received assurances or projections from South West Trains that it will be able to alleviate overcrowding by a certain amount as a result of the extra capacity? Secondly, she said that the decision on subsidies and premiums was an operational matter. There must be a public policy on the criteria, rather than there just being a negotiation haggle based on the bids coming in at the time. It must be more than a purely commercial decision. I should be grateful if she could give me some more detail on how the subsidies and premiums are decided, as it is the Government who sign them off.

[Claire Perry]

The problem is that people can turn up and pay to travel on our railways. It is not like an airline, which shuts the doors once a plane is full. While we hope that additional capacity will immediately reduce overcrowding, if more people choose to travel by train, that capacity will continue to be filled. Part of the problem is that the railways have for too long been treated as something that is in steady state. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) said, we had not realised the importance of the railways in generating economic growth or just how valuable the services are to people who travel in and around the south-west and other parts of the country. While I cannot absolutely assure my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton that overcrowding will drop by X per cent, this is the biggest investment in platform capacity and rolling stock for a generation. I hope that when he and I again take the 7.32 train, the situation for all busy services on the network will have changed.

The issue of premiums and subsidies is complicated and relates to predicted cost bases and revenues. In some cases, franchises deliver far more in premium, because passenger numbers go up so the amount from fares goes up. In other cases, there are cost relationships with Network Rail, depending on delays and performance. It is a franchise-specific issue, but I agree that it can be difficult to understand the situation in relation to a specific area. The fundamental problem is that we need to keep investing in the railways right across the country and to ensure that we are driving down operating costs. I am sure my hon. Friend has found that if he explains to passengers on the 7.32 or other trains that a bit of their ticket price is going into reinvestment in the railways to give them a better journey experience, they will feel better about it. That is value for money. The problem is paying for something and getting nothing back.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister is being generous with her time; I know that she has other points to make. It seems to me that it is a raw commercial decision. The fact is that South West Trains passengers will keep paying more and more and South West Trains will keep paying more and more, because there is inelasticity in demand, which ties in with her earlier points. I like to be honest with my constituents and talk to them in plain language. Are the Government saying that the high subsidy—it is called a premium, but it is effectively a subsidy—is what it is because that is what the Government can get away with?

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

No, I am not saying that at all. My hon. Friend and I both know that passengers also pay, as we all do, for the underlying improvements in track, stations and signalling through general taxation as, indeed, do all the people who do not commute via train. There is general investment in the railways from all of us, as well as specific investments. The idea that captive passengers are treated as a commodity is absolutely 180° opposite to how I feel. Passenger experiences and value for money should be at the heart of every franchise and direct award that we let. My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that that view is shared strongly by my team.

To touch on one of the things mentioned by my hon. Friend, the alliance between South West Trains and Network Rail is crucial to delivering some of the capacity unlocking that we have talked about. It has been a great success and has delivered things quickly, and its maintenance until the end of 2019 has led us to extend the direct award until then. The alliance is working hard to continue to improve punctuality and performance on the Wessex routes.

Value for money is at the heart of the debate. It is great that the Chancellor has frozen fares again for all regulated passengers, many of whom are season ticket holders. Many more things can be done around promotional fares. I do not know whether my hon. Friend has noticed that South West Trains has brought in a whole series of good-value promotional fares for those who have some flexibility about when they travel during 2014, in particular to coincide with the school holidays. It cannot be a coincidence that when I was in Waterloo this morning, I met two of my former neighbours from Salisbury who had travelled up on those great fares and were visiting London as a result.

My Department’s priority has to be to continue to manage investment in the railways in a way that delivers maximum benefits to passengers and the economy.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister has touched on all the points that I made; I am grateful to her for assiduously doing that. If she can, will she give me her snapshot of Crossrail 2 and the regional option? Does she have a view on that, or would she like to take it away and write to me later? It is a long-term investment, but it would be good to know her view.

[Claire Perry]

Crossrail 1 is delivering a huge amount of connectivity and releasing some capacity on our hard-pressed inner-city and inner-suburban services. May I write to my hon. Friend or, indeed, meet him over a cup of tea to discuss Crossrail 2, which is very much in the planning stage?

We have to keep investing and delivering efficiencies and, above all, we have to put passengers and their journey experience at the heart of everything we do. We are not moving air, or lumps of steel, aluminium, titanium or ceramics; we are moving people. I know from experience how miserable it can be to try to get on an overcrowded train and not to be able to do so. That is unacceptable and we must all work towards a new future for the railways.

Question put and agreed to.