Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Heaton-Harris Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform UK)]

1. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to safeguard Northern Ireland’s place in the Union.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Chris Heaton-Harris)]

Before I begin, may I also put on record the Government’s sincere condolences to the family of Frank Field, who sadly passed away last night? The Member for Birkenhead for over 40 years, Frank was a titan of this House. He embodied its best values of decency, honesty and integrity. I got to know him particularly well in those remarkably calm Brexit years, when I was the junior Government Whip detailed to “Just get a few friends on the other side of the Chamber to vote in the appropriate manner.” I know the whole House will join me in wishing his family well at this difficult time.

I would also like to start by welcoming the news that the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill will be amended to include Northern Ireland. I thank the Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) for all the productive meetings and discussions he has had with the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and Justice Ministers in Northern Ireland.

To answer the question asked by the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson), the Government will never be neutral when it comes to expressing our support for the Union and Northern Ireland’s place in it. It is clear that the Union is going from strength to strength. We are committed to further strengthening and safeguarding the Union through the implementation of the Windsor framework and our delivery of the “Safeguarding the Union” commitments. Northern Ireland now has the best of both worlds. It has a stable Northern Ireland Executive, backed by the support and strength of the UK Government. Northern Ireland’s peaceful place in the UK is secured by the Belfast/Good Friday agreement and the principle of consent set within it. I regularly speak to my Cabinet colleagues about their and their Departments’ role in safeguarding Northern Ireland’s interests in the Union.

[Lee Anderson]

I voted for the Windsor framework because the Prime Minister said it removed the Irish sea border, yet £192 million is budgeted to be spent on installing border posts for the non-existent Irish border. Will the Secretary of State please advise the House on the number of checks on people and goods travelling through Great Britain and Northern Ireland? Have those checks increased or decreased since the introduction of the Windsor framework?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. It really does depend. Even in the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, there was provision for a red lane for goods going into Northern Ireland that might flow into the Republic of Ireland. The answer does rather depend on whether the numbers he has looked at are for checks in the red lane or the green lane, or for checks under the new internal market scheme. The numbers rise and fall depending on a whole host of factors. When trade increases, as it is doing, so will the number of checks as a whole, but the percentage will go down, because the checks will be mostly on goods going through the red lane. We will soon get to the point promised in the Command Paper of there being no checks when goods move within the United Kingdom internal market system, save those conducted by UK authorities as part of a risk-based or intelligence-led approach to tackling criminality, abuse of the scheme, smuggling or disease risk. That will ensure the smooth flow of goods within the UK internal market.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.

[Sir Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

A vital part of securing Northern Ireland’s place in the Union is the shared prosperity fund, which is about levelling up and making sure that Northern Ireland has its fair share. Funding is due to end next year, in March 2025. What clarification can the Secretary of State give to community, voluntary and other groups that need to plan ahead, and whose funding faces a cliff edge if they do not have assurances soon?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend the Chairman of the Select Committee. I am wary of giving too many assurances, because we are talking about a time beyond the next general election, when there will be a new Conservative Government, who will have priorities that they will wish to update. We know about the success that the shared prosperity fund has had in Northern Ireland. I have visited projects that it has funded. I would like to think that it will continue strongly across the next spending review period.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

On behalf of my colleagues, may I extend our deepest sympathies to the family of Frank Field? He and I shared four years in the House, and I always found him to be a very warm and engaging colleague—someone who had time for young parliamentarians like me, and who believed very much in this place and our country. May I also thank the Secretary of State and the Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), for the inclusion of Northern Ireland in the Horizon scandal Bill? That is incredibly important.

As a Unionist, I believe in this country and will work every day to strengthen our place in it. We recognise the “Safeguarding the Union” Command Paper as an important stepping-stone in maintaining and securing our position. The Secretary of State mentioned the Government’s commitment to eliminating all routine checks in the UK internal market system, and we look forward to his faithful delivery of that. However, while we have seen the creation of the East-West Council, we have heard little about the construction of InterTrade UK or the establishment of the independent monitoring panel. May I ask the Secretary of State to update the House on those issues?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and look forward to working with him in his new role. I can assure him that His Majesty's Government are working apace and will deliver on our Command Paper commitments in full, including our commitments on checks. He asked about a range of bodies and pledges that we have made. Just last month we held the inaugural meeting of the East-West Council, which gave Ministers from the United Kingdom Government and the Northern Ireland Executive an opportunity to come together to discuss the main priorities of the council’s work programme. We are committed to strengthening and safeguarding the Union through our implementation of that programme, and we are committed to safeguarding the UK internal market by establishing new bodies such as InterTrade UK, which will promote and facilitate trade in the United Kingdom. I will respond to the right hon. Gentleman’s other points when time allows.

[Gavin Robinson]

The Secretary of State will recognise that one of the issues absent from the Windsor framework and subsequent agreements is the conclusion of an arrangement for veterinary medicines. He will know how important agriculture is to the Northern Ireland economy, and he will also know that Northern Ireland produces 10 times as much food as we need, to the benefit of our nearest neighbours. The establishment of the veterinary medicines working group, with the help of the Minister of State and my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), has been extremely positive, but there is a cliff edge towards the end of next year. We need a successful conclusion to the issue, and I would be grateful if the Secretary of State could inform the House that that will happen.

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

This matter is very important to the Government and for Northern Ireland. The Government’s priority is to secure a long-term sustainable solution on veterinary medicines, and we wish to pursue such a solution through discussions with the European Union, and to prepare safeguards for all scenarios. As the right hon. Gentleman said, we have set up a veterinary medicines working group to advise the Government on solutions, and we are grateful for the expertise of Members who are joining that group. It has met twice, and aims to report in a timely manner in June. In the meantime, we have put in place a grace period arrangement until the end of 2025, which supports continuity of supply in Northern Ireland. However, the right hon. Gentleman is right to emphasise the importance of this matter, and we are working hard on it.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

2. What steps he is taking to help increase GDP in Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

12. What assessment he has made of the impact of the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly on Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Chris Heaton-Harris)]

I am sure that my hon. Friends will welcome the fact that, once again, Northern Ireland has local politicians taking decisions in a local Assembly that is accountable to local people. With a funding package worth over £3 billion, the Executive are taking forward the vital work of public service transformation and delivering sustainable finances, and are ensuring better outcomes for the people of Northern Ireland in their daily lives. The impact of all this has been unbelievably positive.

[Alexander Stafford]

The commitment that this Government and my right hon. Friend have shown in pushing for the restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive is clearly demonstrated in the £3.3 billion for transforming public services, but what help are the Home Office and civil service providing to their colleagues in Northern Ireland to make sure that people there have the modern and efficient public services that they deserve, and how will that benefit all four nations?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I agree that there is a fantastic opportunity, which we are trying to take, for the UK Government to collaborate with and support the Northern Ireland Executive in transforming public services. The UK Government have high hopes that Ministers in the Executive will move quickly to deliver on their commitments to set up a transformation board, and we are excited to work with Northern Ireland Ministers to produce plans that will deliver transformation for Northern Ireland. Indeed, I met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister last week; we talked about this work and how we can further it in the very short term.

[Dr Evans]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly provides the stability for further private investment in Northern Ireland? This is a massive opportunity; it is the missing piece in the puzzle, and could make a huge difference. How does he intend to capitalise on this?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The restoration of devolved government not only provides certainty and stability for business but allows us to harness our combined energies and expertise to make Northern Ireland a fantastic place to live, work and invest. My right hon. Friend the Minister of State has reminded the House of the success of the Northern Ireland investment summit last September, which welcomed 180 business investors from around the world, and of our £617 million investment in Northern Ireland’s four city and growth deals. Recently I visited Washington DC with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, and it is fair to say that the US business community is now well aware of the amazing opportunities in Northern Ireland and is looking at them hungrily.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The return of devolution has to be built on, particularly as there are still some issues to be resolved. While some in Northern Ireland concentrate on complaining about the outstanding problems, there are those of us who are committed to resolving them. The Secretary of State is in a better position than most to help to resolve them. Will he recommit today to our seeing further moves in the coming weeks in the direction of resolving all the outstanding issues?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his recent honour for his many years of elected public service in this place and to his constituents. Yes, he absolutely can have that commitment from me. I am committed to delivering at great pace on all the pledges we made in the Command Paper, and I am absolutely committed to delivering the best outcomes for everyone across Northern Ireland, because that is what Northern Ireland deserves.

[Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)]

Of course the restoration of devolved government in Northern Ireland is very welcome. The Minister will be aware that polling evidence has shown a big growth since the Good Friday agreement in the number of people who identify as Northern Irish, as distinct from Irish or British. What implications does that have for the way that devolved government conducts itself, going forward?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, because there is a genuinely interesting point about the growth in the number of people who live in Northern Ireland who declare themselves to be Northern Irish. I would like to think that it is reflected in the way that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister go about their business. They are working together in a respectful and positive way, respectful of each other’s communities, and wanting the best for the place they represent. I believe that signifies a healthy development for the future of Northern Ireland politics.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your eloquent tribute to Frank Field. He was a brave and a generous man.

We look forward to working with the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) in his new position.

The UK’s successful bid to host the 2028 Euros with Ireland is a fantastic opportunity for Northern Ireland, but with just three years left to build the Casement Park stadium, the Executive have yet to invite tenders. In May last year, the Secretary of State was asked who would provide the money, and he replied:

“All partners. I guarantee it.”

Given that the clock is ticking, how and when does the right hon. Gentleman intend, with others, to honour that guarantee, so that the stadium gets built on time?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that he is asking that question of someone who has been a football referee for the last 43 years, and who is rather passionate about the game. I really want to see these Euro games played at Casement Park, and I have made that clear, but the latest costs that I have seen are significantly higher than the ones I saw a year ago, and any taxpayer contribution to the Casement Park project will need to be made on a value-for-money basis. I have also said many times that there is no blank cheque here, especially when there is no contractor appointed yet. We do not want to artificially inflate a price. The Northern Ireland Executive will also need to decide on whether and how they will underwrite any future increases in costs. As I said back then, all partners are working together to try to work out what the number is, and how we can deliver on it.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that reply.

One other challenge that the institutions face is dealing with the continuing legacy of the troubles. Seven days from now, all civil cases and inquests related to the troubles will come to an end under the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023, which is widely opposed in Northern Ireland. Does the right hon. Gentleman think that confidence in the new independent commission will be helped or hindered by the fact that it has recently brought three separate legal challenges to the disclosure by coroners of information to families about what happened to their loved ones—information that they have been denied for so many years?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

The right hon. Gentleman conflates two issues. First, there are the ongoing elements of how we deal with public interest immunity and the “neither confirm nor deny” policy in court cases in Northern Ireland, and indeed across the United Kingdom. Secondly, there is the question about the new commission we are setting up to deal with legacy. I believe that even those with civil cases will be able to use the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery in good faith when it opens its doors on 1 May.

Only this month, the former co-chair of the Consultative Group on the Past, Denis Bradley, said that he thinks the people involved with the ICRIR

“are very good people, I have a lot of regard for them… And if people decide it offers them something, well then, I will be very reluctant to make too many strong judgments around it. Because”—

this is the problem that the UK Government are trying to solve—

“we have created a swamp around legacy, a complete swamp. Anything that helps some people to get out of that swamp, I won’t be too critical.”

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s welcoming of the restored institutions. I am also a great respecter of referendum results, and I believe we had one in Scotland. That is probably enough said.

[Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab)]

5. What recent discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the expansion of integrated education in Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Baker]

I hear the hon. Lady. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I understand people’s concerns and we too have visited schools; I certainly have and I think my right hon. Friend has too.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Chris Heaton-Harris)]

indicated assent.

[Mr Baker]

I repeat that we have repurposed the money so that it can endure and be available to the Executive to be used for purposes as they decide. If we had not repurposed it, the money would have expired at the end of March next year. I am proud that we have taken the steps necessary, with the Treasury, to enable that money to continue to be available to the Executive. It is for them to decide how to spend it, but we continue to be fully committed to integrated education.

[Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

6. What discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the development of a programme for government.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Chris Heaton-Harris)]

I met the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister last week. We had a constructive discussion about the Executive’s priorities.

[Claire Hanna]

The public’s relief at the restoration of the Assembly has given way to frustration at the lack of pace of delivery by the Executive. After a two-year void, they are saying they do not want to be hurried to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. Pressed healthcare staff, people waiting for special educational needs services, and those watching Lough Neagh face another summer of algal blooms are very much in a hurry for action. Northern Ireland urgently needs a delivery plan, a programme for Government and a budget. Yes, resources are a part of that, so will the Minister update us on any negotiations on the fiscal framework? Will he impress on the Executive the need for urgent action, not just warm words?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

One thing that I picked up from the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister last week is that they too want to act in all the ways the hon. Lady said. Their priorities include developing a programme for government that will enable them to take forward the vital work of public service transformation. They are only 12 weeks in, and I look forward to good results in the short, medium and long term.