Finance Bill

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

My right hon. Friend raises an interesting point because the Chancellor did say at the CBI conference, when asked, that she would not raise taxes in the future, but this very afternoon, at the Dispatch Box, the Prime Minister appeared to resile from that. We now do not even have clarity on that vital point.

Surely the point is that the Chancellor is no economist, no matter how much puff one applies to try to disguise the fact. I thought I would take a leaf out of her book, even though that page was apparently written by somebody else. I can inform the House that I am an economist. Speaking as a former Governor of the Bank of England and president of the International Monetary Fund, and having run the World Bank and the World Trade Organisation at the same time—yes, for 10 years—I have as much experience as our Chancellor. That flight of fancy is, of course, all mine, but the inspiration came from the Government Benches.

This is a Finance Bill of broken promises and breathtaking incompetence—a Finance Bill that represents a present danger to the future of our economy. Was there ever a Bill more injurious to what we Conservatives love—to our pensioners, our farmers, our businesses, the poor, the vulnerable and, yes, working men and women right up and down our country? They say that astrologers are there to make economists look good. Well, they cannot make this lot look good. It is written in the stars—it is a story foretold—that unchecked, this Budget and this Finance Bill would take Britain down. That is why we will never tire of the trials of opposition, and why we will be the party that stands up for working men and women across our country, and fights this Government.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

To make her maiden speech, I call Samantha Niblett.

[Samantha Niblett (South Derbyshire) (Lab)]

That caught me off guard; I did not expect to be called quite so soon. Thank you so much, Madam Deputy Speaker.

It is with great humility and immense pride that I stand here today delivering my first speech in this Chamber as the Member of Parliament for South Derbyshire. I would like to begin by expressing my gratitude to the people of South Derbyshire for placing their trust in me. I was visible, accessible and active right across the constituency before the election was called, and I took great pride in proving that by directing people to my “Samantha spotting” interactive online map. I am committed to continuing in the same vein, working incredibly hard for the people I represent.

I want to thank my predecessor Heather Wheeler, who has dedicated so much of her life to local and national politics. She spent 14 years as an MP and, if an internet search result is not tricking me, began her career in local politics in 1982 when she was just 23 years old. She became an elected councillor in South Derbyshire in 1995, and went on to be leader of the council. Her commitment to public service was rewarded in the 2023 birthday honours list. I also hear on repeat, and on good authority, that she was jolly good fun in this place.

As the most recent MP for South Derbyshire, I join this House from the private sector, having built a career in data and technology, and I am still a relative newbie to politics. I joined the Labour party in my late thirties, swiftly finding my home and sense of purpose in trying to make things better for people through political activism, at a time when data and technology are key to driving economic growth to help make people better off. When I discovered that the two things that I am most proud of this country for were Labour Government creations—the welfare state and our precious national health service, which both look after people when they are at their most vulnerable and in most need of support—I knew that I had found the party that I belonged to. The NHS has saved both my parents’ lives more than once, and I am delighted that now that Labour is in government, we will save the NHS’s life.

Deciding to throw your hat in the ring for the longest ongoing job interview, for a job without a job description, when some people will instantly loathe you for simply being an MP—they are particularly harsh online—is not for everyone. Were it not for my wonderful 17-year-old daughter Lillian, I probably would not be standing here. She is the reason for my being. I could not tell her that she can be anything she wants to be if I did not show her. I want her to feel brave and able to change her career later in life, just as I have, if she so wishes. I will not stand by and let her be horrified, as she is, at the gender pay gap without trying my best to help close it. Thank goodness we have the first ever female Chancellor of the Exchequer in my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West and Pudsey (Rachel Reeves), who, having smashed a glass ceiling herself, wants to level the playing field for other women.

The desire for fairness and to look after people is what drives me, and it is one of the defining features of South Derbyshire, too. It has a strong sense of community and people who look out for one another. The many local Facebook groups, including “I love Swad”, “This is Overseal” and “Spotted: Repton”, have some interesting posts and colourful comments, and people there frequently, shall we say, hold me to account; but more often than not, when people ask for help, others rally round to support them. That community extends to local businesses, who support and work with local charities, such as South Derbyshire CVS. It not only runs a food bank—something I hope to see an end of as we make people better off again—but provides services and support to individuals and voluntary groups, of which there are very many. Then we have the Maple Tree community café in Repton village hall, whose volunteers make people so welcome. It has the best coffee, not to mention the beloved doughnuts on the first Saturday of every month. There is also the small business group Been Networking, which meets at Been Coffee, which does the most amazing bagels. There is a bit of a food theme here. People are there for one another.

South Derbyshire has something for everyone. I encourage everyone to go online to visitsouthderbyshire.co.uk to see for themselves, and then to come and see us. We have events ranging from the Melbourne festival of art and architecture, which celebrates its 20th anniversary next September, to the festival of leisure at Maurice Lea memorial park in Church Gresley, a short walk from the home of Gresley Rovers. The last time a Labour MP, Mark Todd, who people still speak so fondly of today, delivered his first speech in this Chamber in 1997, he was hoping to help Gresley Rovers move their football ground. This Labour MP hopes to help them finally make that dream a reality.

Turning from the beautiful game to the beautiful places, we have Calke Abbey in Ticknall, part of our wonderful National Trust. There, people do great work to preserve and restore woodlands and ensure visitor areas are inclusive, so that as many people as possible can enjoy them. Mercia Marina, just outside Willington, is the largest inland port in Europe and is a fantastic spot for tourism, leisure and local business. Speaking of local business, Acres Engineering is a wonderful family-run company that opens its doors to school visits. It trains and develops apprentices, and has an armed forces covenant gold award for its work to support the armed forces community and defence. As I am partaking in this year’s armed forces parliamentary scheme in the RAF, I am ever more grateful to Acres Engineering for being committed to that work. It really does go above and beyond for people.

It is not just home-grown businesses in South Derbyshire; we are home to sites for Toyota, Rolls-Royce and JCB. Those global companies provide high-quality jobs, apprenticeships and vital skills training to local people, making South Derbyshire a hub of innovation and industrial excellence. Their expertise in hydrogen-powered vehicles can help deliver a reduction in carbon emissions, and will ideally place us at the forefront of the green revolution, helping us to fight the climate crisis.

I also want to highlight the critical role of Burton and South Derbyshire college. While its main site is not technically in my constituency, it has sites and programmes that are. It provides vital education and training to the next generation of workers and entrepreneurs. It is the gold standard of technical colleges, and this Labour Government want to see more like it right across the country. Our college is helping to equip our young people, including those with special educational needs and disabilities, with the skills needed to thrive in the jobs of the future, in today’s fast-changing world. I hope many of those jobs will be in the tech sector, and I will strive to encourage tech businesses to base themselves in South Derbyshire, so that no one has to leave where they live to build a secure, successful, rewarding and well-paid career.

Our motto, “The Earth Our Wealth”, speaks of a time when our industry was about coalmining and pottery. Now, it makes me think of our stunning rural landscapes, and of the hard-working farmers who are increasingly diversifying to adapt to changing economic landscapes. Whether they are producing their own biogas from food waste, converting agricultural buildings into business units to let or running farm shops, our farmers continue to show resilience and creativity.

In closing, whether in Etwall, Egginton or Stenson Fields in the north, or in Lullington, Coton in the Elms or Walton in the south, I want people to know that I promise to represent them with integrity, dedication, and a deep sense of responsibility. Thank you for giving me that opportunity.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call the Liberal Democrats spokesperson.

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[Graham Stuart]

We are seeing a kind of socialist envy and attack on misguided targets. For instance, children with special educational needs in private schools will be pulled out of those schools mid-year because their families can no longer afford to send them there. That was not the intent; not only did Labour Members want to stand on an honest prospectus, but that is not, I am sure, what they wanted. Nevertheless, that is what is happening. [Interruption.] It is exactly what is happening.

My hon. Friend is right, however, to point out that this is not just about a class-based assault on people who do not deserve to be assaulted. It is also about sheer ineptitude. Let us consider the £22 billion for the NHS. Why so little for social care? Surely Labour Members, however green and new to the House, must be aware that the NHS depends on the social care system, but because of the increases in national insurance contributions and the minimum wage, its costs are rising by about £2.5 billion and it is getting £600 million. Hospices will be affected, and so will small charities.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I remind the right hon. Gentleman, and indeed all other Members, that this is, specifically, a Finance Bill Second Reading debate. We are not having a general debate on the Budget.

[Graham Stuart]

I am extremely grateful to you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will try not to refer too much to the impact of national insurance contributions, because we will have that opportunity next Tuesday. None the less, my hon. Friend was right to talk about the impact of this Budget overall, and the effect on hospices and charities in particular.

Yesterday I met the chief executive of HICA, a large not-for-profit provider of social care homes and in-home care. HICA is a brilliant organisation, which has made real progress over the last few years. It finally managed to make a surplus last year, so it can pay its staff more than the minimum wage and invest in its stock. Now it is facing a £3.5 million impact on its £40 million turnover as a result of this Budget and this Finance Bill.

As well as farmers, oil and gas have been touched on today. When I was the Minister for Energy Security and Net Zero, it always struck me as absurd to look at the production of oil and gas rather than the consumption. It is the consumption that is the problem. We must change our factories, our vehicles, our buildings, so that they no longer need oil and gas if we are to move away from them. Attacking production when it is driven by demand is attacking the wrong end. In this measure, the Labour Government are raising the energy profits levy, on top of refusing to issue new licences. The net effect of that, notwithstanding the Liberal Democrats’ saying that they support the policy—I do not know why or how they can do so—

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[Tim Roca (Macclesfield) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) on her phenomenal maiden speech. She is already proving to be a powerful advocate for her constituents.

The Finance Bill is a necessary corollary to the Budget. It is the beginning of a process that the new Labour Government are undertaking to rebuild the foundations of our country, after an incredibly poor inheritance from the predecessor Government. I have been quite shocked to hear the joy with which Conservative Members have been speaking about the phenomenal economy that they left the country with. It is an economy in which wage growth has flatlined at the lowest level since the Napoleonic wars, leaving households £10,000 worse off per person. Trade has fallen 15% lower than our neighbours’, and national debt went from 64% in 2010 to 96% just before the pandemic. I know they love blaming the pandemic for everything, but things were pretty bad before the pandemic. The heart of the problem is that the Conservatives lack credibility.

In 2010, the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) stood for election on a manifesto that said that the Conservatives would “eliminate” the deficit by the end of the Parliament. In 2015, he stood for election on a manifesto that said the same thing, as he did in 2017. In 2019, he and his colleagues decided to give up entirely on tackling the national debt, which is one of many things that we now have to tackle. Of course, that was the more rational end of the previous 14 years, and there were seven Chancellors in 14 years, by the way. We had the blip, which I know Conservative Members do not like talking about, when one of their Chancellors, with the backing of a Prime Minister, Liz Truss, promised £45 billion—2% of GDP—of unfunded tax cuts. I am incredulous that the Conservatives were talking about gilts earlier. Gilts moved more in one week under Liz Truss than in a whole year on average. There is no comparison—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman was in the Chamber when I asked Members to return to debating the Finance Bill, rather than the rather context of the Budget.

[Tim Roca]

I was, Madam Deputy Speaker. I tried to intervene on the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness a number of times, but he would not give way, so I felt I had to squeeze in a couple of points before getting to the Finance Bill.

The Finance Bill includes many important measures that I support. The freeze on fuel duty is an important and welcome decision by the Chancellor. The Conservatives imposed a stealth tax on the country by freezing thresholds on income tax, and the Chancellor rightly committed to changing that in 2028. It was a revenue-raising Budget, but despite all the changes, we will have capital gains and corporation tax rates that are very competitive with those of our G7 colleagues.

My constituency needs this Budget because it needs stability. It needs the investment that this Budget will bring. That investment is crucial because the legacy that I talked about spanned a number of areas, including a lack of public investment. The Institute for Public Policy Research said that nearly £500 billion less was invested in the public sector than in comparable economies, as we can see in our public services, hospitals and schools. The Budget was about choices. It was a difficult Budget, and not a perfect Budget, because of the inheritance. We have to deal with the facts. There was disagreement on the Budget, but people who disagree with the revenue-raising measures and agree with the spending have to say what taxes they would have increased. I say gently to Liberal Democrat colleagues, who have found other sources of income, that the Institute for Fiscal Studies effectively said that their plans to raise income elsewhere had no real credibility.

This is a difficult Budget, but it is the beginning of plotting a course for stability, economic growth and investment in public services in our country. That is what my constituents very much hope will be the legacy.

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[Damian Hinds]

Thank you.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. The right hon. Member will know full well that it is for me to decide if the hon. Lady’s intervention is too long.

[Nesil Caliskan]

The right hon. Member may also recognise that the Government have been clear that when special educational needs are being met in the private sector, VAT will not apply.

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[Lola McEvoy (Darlington) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to Conservative Members for embracing their role in opposition. They are throwing their whole heart into it, and it is wonderful to see them in their rightful place—long may it continue.

I am the Member for Darlington, where a quarter of the Treasury is based, and my wonderful home town is filled with people from all walks of life. We share the unifying belief that despite our rich railway heritage we do not like to be taken for a ride. The coalition of people who elected me came from every part of the town, from people working two jobs, worried about keeping their children fed, right across to people earning six figures who voted Labour for the first time because they were worried about the lack of opportunities for their children to succeed. The people in that coalition lead different lives but agree completely on their reasons for voting Labour. Their reason was the same as for those up and down the country who voted for Labour for the first time in droves: the Conservatives had crashed our economy and stifled growth, and all those people were worse off because of it.

As a member of the prestigious Treasury Committee, I am privileged to hear the views of the top economic leaders in our country. Their advice is clear: growth and investment require economic stability, and this Finance Bill will deliver economic stability. Our Labour Government were elected to offer industry and the markets the assurances they need that Britain is back in business. The Bill does just that. Our Labour Government were elected to ensure that people in every corner of the country can be better off. This Finance Bill will create the conditions to do just that. Our Labour Government were elected to get our children’s future back—a future that they can be excited about, with a life filled with opportunities, prosperity and public services that work when they need them. The Bill is essential to deliver just that.

I am proud to stand here to champion a Bill that will create the conditions for long-term investment in my area. The huge amount of investment from big business that this Government have already crowded in is testament to the fantastic reputation our country has on the global stage—a reputation that the last three Prime Ministers nearly destroyed. While the Conservatives chopped and changed their leaders, Chancellors and policies, the markets, business leaders and global investors stepped back. They watched and waited to see if the new Prime Minister knew what they were doing, or if the next new Prime Minister had the backing of their colleagues. They watched and waited to see the new Prime Minister’s long-term vision for the country, but scandal after disastrous scandal led them to lose confidence—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. The hon. Lady should sit when I am on my feet. This needs to be a debate about the Finance Bill, not other matters, and certainly not a general debate on the Budget again.

[Lola McEvoy]

The Conservatives stopped answering the phone to Labour; the industry ghosted them; and then the country rejected them. But, on the Finance Bill, not 100 days into this new Labour Government, Britain is back open for business with billions of pounds of investment in green technology, new nuclear, solar and hydro projects being given the go-ahead, and a whopping £63 billion of private investment crowded in. Tough choices were taken to fix the foundations and to stabilise the economy—choices only necessary because of the incompetence, inertia and wilful ignorance of the last Government. To govern is to choose, and I am proud to have chosen to stabilise the economy, invest in net zero and energy independence, balance the books and begin to rebuild our public services, all in the service of working people. This House will pass the Bill; the economy will be stabilised; and every corner of our great country will be better off, and not a moment too soon.

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[Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) on a fantastic maiden speech. I am sure that her expertise in the tech sector will be an asset to this place.

I welcome the ability to contribute to the debate on the Finance Bill. I am wholly supportive of the measures announced in the Budget that form the legislation. After 14 years of Conservative mismanagement of our economy and the country, the public spoke on 4 July and gave a clear mandate to repair the dire circumstances we found ourselves in that left my constituents footing the bill.

The electorate knew and showed at the ballot box that they were in dire need of a grown-up Government that would not shy away from the hard decisions. We have heard many contributions from Opposition Members setting out the things they do not like about the Budget. If they support the benefits of the Budget, we have not heard much about how they would fund those measures or what they would cut.

My constituents voted for a Government who would finally ensure, after years of failure, that we would grow our economy, lower the tax burden on working people and restore the fantastic public services that once upon a time made this country a world leader. My constituents understand that there are difficult decisions to be made. They know that government is about making choices and deciding what country we want to be in the future. They made their decision at the ballot box, doing away with the Conservatives.

My constituents chose to no longer be a country with crumbling roads, a country that dipped in and out of recession, a country with low investment ultimately steered by the hands of the Conservatives in a chaotic fashion that clobbered their living standards. They voted for Labour, and with that they decided that they wanted to live in a country with monumental investment in its national health service, which will reduce waiting lists—we are already seeing the benefits of that—and rebuild key hospitals such as Leighton hospital in my constituency. They want to be in a country where their work is rewarded fairly and where minimum wage increases will put £1,400 a year into their pockets. Not only that; they want to live in a country—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I am going to make the request that I have made at least twice—this could be third time or the fourth. Please can Members debate the Finance Bill’s Second Reading, which is what we have on the Order Paper this afternoon? This is not a general debate on the Budget. We debated the Budget several weeks ago and we cannot keep covering old ground.

[Connor Naismith]

My apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am about to move on to points covered by the Finance Bill.

My constituents want to live in a country that levels the playing field and ensures that working families have as much opportunity at all stages of their life, regardless of their postcode or their background. That is why I support the Government’s decision to end VAT relief on private schools, aiming to equalise educational opportunities. I know that many families work hard to send their child to private school, but I have never met a constituent who does not work hard just to make ends meet, and their children also deserve the very best education that our country can provide. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] Conservative Members say “Hear, hear!” but we do not often hear them advocating for state schools.