Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [HL]

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. This is an important Bill, as it enables a long-awaited status change for two significant organisations. Indeed, the Bill comes at a crucial time for both the CPA and the ICRC. Before I go on, I want to comment on the hard work that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, put into the previous Bill, before the election. He leaves very large shoes to fill on this side of the House, but endeavour to fill them we shall.

March saw the celebration of the 75th anniversary of the creation of the modern Commonwealth, and we continue to work together in partnership with our Commonwealth family on vital issues, such as empowering women and girls, bolstering the rule of law and good governance, and protecting the freedom of the media. The ICRC has been at the centre of international humanitarian work in recent years, including in Ukraine and the ongoing crisis in the Middle East. The UK values its partnership with the CPA and is proud to support work being done by the CPA and its regional branch, CPA UK. This includes developing benchmarks as indicators of parliamentary democracy, and addressing modern slavery in supply chains and gender-based violence with Parliaments and parliamentarians across the Commonwealth. The organisation’s current status as a charity has meant that the CPA has been prevented from operating fully across the Commonwealth and international fora. Without this legislation, there remains a high possibility that the CPA would look to relocate its headquarters outside the UK.

The UK supports the ICRC and its important work around the world. It is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives, as it has unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts and unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations, and it operates in dangerous and challenging situations across the world. Its specialised role engaging with all those involved in conflict, including the growing number of non-state armed groups, is coupled with its direct delivery of a comprehensive range of integrated humanitarian assistance and protection programmes.

It is critical that both the CPA and the ICRC are given the correct status in UK legislation to conduct their work and deliver their objectives while operating in the UK. This will guarantee that the CPA remains headquartered in the UK, and that the UK is able to give the ICRC the guarantee that the information it shares with the UK Government is secure and protected.

That is why this Bill and the provisions contained in it are so important. They enable the Government to treat the CPA and the ICRC in a manner comparable to that of an international organisation of which the United Kingdom—or His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom—is a member, so that the CPA is able to continue its work on promoting democracy and good governance across the Commonwealth, and the ICRC is able to pursue its humanitarian mandate in conflict zones. By creating the power, by Order in Council, to give both organisations the legal capacity of a body corporate—that is, the ability to bring claims and have claims brought against them, and to enter into contracts and hold assets and liabilities in their own name, as well as having specific privileges and immunities—the Bill will support the functional needs of the CPA and the ICRC, including their property, information, and certain personnel.

The actual suite of privileges and immunities to be conferred, including relevant exemptions and limitations, will be determined by the functional need of each organisation and will be specified in the Order in Council. To be clear, personnel have no personal immunity if they commit a crime, and there is a clear carve out ensuring that they have no immunity in any vehicle incident.

The ICRC confidentiality provision in the Bill provides for the protection of certain information related to the ICRC’s sensitive work, which it has provided in confidence to His Majesty’s Government. For example, it is protected from being disclosed in UK court proceedings, except for criminal proceedings. This provision reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. The public disclosure of information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put this at risk. It is also a principle that underpins its ability to operate in dangerous locations on sensitive issues, such as negotiating safe access to civilian populations caught up in conflict, engagement with both state and non-state armed actors, and working with prisoners and hostages. There is undoubtedly a very clear risk and concern about ICRC information being used in legal proceedings, with the ICRC’s confidentiality having been challenged in the UK some 20 times over the last 15 years. The Government therefore consider that the confidentiality provision is both necessary and proportionate.

The financial implications of the Bill are minimal and there will be little or no loss of revenue as a result of the fiscal exemptions or reliefs, which will be granted by delegated legislation through the provisions in the Bill. Refunds of certain taxes will be made in accordance with the separate arrangements between the Government and the CPA and the ICRC respectively, as is standard for international organisations. Administration of the arrangements will be resourced from the existing resources responsible for managing privileges and immunities with international organisations in the UK. The FCDO will consult both organisations ahead of secondary legislation, and will work closely with them to agree subsequent specific arrangements, detailing day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted to both organisations, based on functional need, and other facilities.

I assure noble Lords that any Order in Council made under Clause 1 or 2 of the Bill will be subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, which requires the approval of both Houses of Parliament. The FCDO has committed to lay the draft Order in Council as soon as possible.

To conclude, the Bill gives the CPA and the ICRC the correct status in UK legislation to allow both organisations to continue their international operations without restriction. It reflects the Government’s strong commitment to the Commonwealth, and our support of democratic legislators through our work with the CPA and our global humanitarian objectives through our work with the ICRC. This is not the first time that the Bill has been read in this House. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, for their work to introduce the previous Private Member’s Bill in the last parliamentary Session, and I thank noble Lord for their unwavering support of that Bill. I hope that this Bill continues to receive that support.

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad. People said I was triggered by remembering the Northern Ireland protocol debates; they were very long and intense, they meant an awful lot to both of us at the time and we came at them from very different angles. However, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, dealt with them, as we would all expect, in a most respectful and considered way. I think we probably got to the right place in the end, as is often the way with these things in your Lordships’ House. I look forward to him taking a similar approach with legislation that we may bring forward in the future to that which I took to the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill. I am very grateful that has not been the experience on my first outing at this Dispatch Box. I noted with the Whip during the debate that I think this is the very first piece of legislation to receive its Second Reading in this Parliament, under a new Government. It is great to know all our legislation will be so warmly received.

I thank noble Lords for their incredibly insightful contributions, bringing a huge amount of experience to the debate. It is not the first time we have discussed this, but your Lordships’ House does a very fine job on issues such as these and has made a strong case this afternoon for the importance of the Bill. As others have done, I thank again the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and Maria Miller, Ian Liddell-Grainger, Lord Chidgey and Stephen Twigg. I remember being in a bar with Stephen Twigg in 1997, just after the election—I definitely bought him a pint, and he definitely has not bought me one back yet, but perhaps he will after today.

I look forward to further discussions while the Bill continues its passage as we seek to ensure, as many noble Lords have said, that the CPA and the ICRC are given the correct status in legislation.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Global Combat Air Programme International Government Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 23 May be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, in December 2022, the United Kingdom, Japan and Italy jointly launched the global combat air programme, known as GCAP, to deliver next-generation aircraft by 2035. On 5 July, the Prime Minister reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to promoting co-operation and collaboration between the UK and Italy, with Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and on 6 July between the UK and Japan, with Japan’s Prime Minister Kishida. It was agreed that the security of the Euro-Atlantic and Indo-Pacific are indivisible. His Majesty’s Government are committed to ensuring the security of the Indo-Pacific, working closely with our allies.

For the UK, this aircraft will sit at the heart of a wider system, networked and collaborating with a range of aircraft, including the F35, and broader military capabilities. It will use information systems, weapons and uncrewed collaborative combat air platforms to complete the capability. Replacing the capability provided by Typhoon, this system will sustain the UK’s operational advantage. In addition, GCAP will attract investment into research and development in digital design and advanced manufacture processes, providing opportunities for our next generation of highly skilled engineers and technicians.

The signing of the convention on the establishment of the GCAP International Government Organisation, known commonly as GIGO, by the parties of the United Kingdom, Japan and Italy took place in December 2023 and was conducted by the respective defence secretaries of the three nations. The GIGO will function as the executive body, with the legal capacity to place contracts with industrial partners engaged in the GCAP. Through the GIGO, the UK will lead on the development of an innovative stealth fighter jet with supersonic capability and equipped with cutting-edge technology, to facilitate collaboration with key international partners that will raise the profile of the UK’s combat air industrial capacity.

The GIGO headquarters will be based in the UK, employing personnel from the UK, Italy and Japan. The chief executive and director posts shall be filled by nationals of different parties, according to a mechanism that shall preserve a balance between the parties. Given the nature of the GIGO as an international defence organisation, the Ministry of Defence, with support from the FCDO, has been leading on trilateral engagement and negotiations on its establishment.

The convention, once in effect, will enable closer collaboration between the parties—being the Governments of Japan, Italy and the UK—and support the development of His Majesty’s Government’s defence capabilities, stimulated by development of the UK-based headquarters. It will enable further collaboration with key industry partners, with the headquarters supporting hundreds of jobs, working in close partnership with Rolls-Royce, Leonardo UK and MBDA UK, and with hundreds of other companies from across the UK in the supply chain to deliver the GCAP.

This Order in Council is a statutory instrument and forms part of the secondary legislation needed to confer legal capacity and privileges and immunities on the GCAP International Government Organisation. It accords certain privileges and immunities to the organisation’s personnel and the representatives of the parties to the convention. This order was laid in draft before Parliament on 23 May 2024, is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made by the Privy Council once it is approved by both Houses. Subject to the approval and ratification, the treaty would enter into force on the deposit of the last instrument of ratification, or acceptance of the parties. This is anticipated to be autumn 2024, to meet the 2035 in-service date.

This order confers a bespoke set of privileges and immunities, to enable the GIGO to operate effectively in the UK. The Government consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has towards the organisation. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents. The privileges and immunities conferred on agency personnel and representatives are not for their personal advantage but are in order to ensure complete independence in the exercise of their functions in connection with the GCAP. To be clear, agency personnel have no personal immunity if they commit a crime, and there is a clear carve-out ensuring that they have no immunity in any vehicle incident. These immunities in respect of the GIGO cover immunity from suit and legal process, inviolability of premises and archives, and appropriate tax exemptions and reliefs in relation to its official activities.

In respect of representatives of the parties and staff, the provisions cover functional immunity and an immunity waiver. Additionally, the order includes an exemption from the legal suit and process immunity in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle. This is a standard clause included in statutory instruments and treaties, providing for privileges and immunities.

To conclude, the support for the GIGO’s establishment ensured through this order is a unique opportunity to showcase UK leadership and innovation in the combat air industry on a global stage. Through the GIGO, the UK will collaborate with its international partners on the development of an innovative stealth fighter jet and facilitate collaboration with key international partners that will raise the profile of the UK’s combat air industry. The security of the United Kingdom will always be of paramount importance to this Government. Defence is central to both UK security and our economic prosperity and growth, including by harnessing the strength of our well-established defence industries. This GIGO is key to GCAP, and the UK continues to make positive progress with our partners Japan and Italy. I beg to move.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as in the register. Behind this necessary and detailed order lies an enormous project, one of the biggest ever, which we are to undertake with Japan and Italy. We are talking about billions of pounds involved. This is only a small part of it but the importance of the bigger picture is colossal. Behind that lies a weaving together of the most advanced parts of Japanese and British industry in a way that I find immensely encouraging and that we have been working towards for years. We reached a peak of co-operation at the end of the last century, but it rather fell away in the first 10 or 15 years of this one. Now, the scene is much revived, and there are enormous gains for Japan and ourselves. Japan is our best friend in Asia, as they used to say; and I do think Japan still sees us as its best friend in Europe. There are enormous opportunities for prosperity in this country.

All I am asking of the Minister, who introduced this very clearly indeed, is that if there are any bumps along the road, any postponements or any difficulties arising out of interpretation of this order, please could they be handled with the utmost consideration of that wider picture, the sensitivities on both sides and the fact that an enormous amount is at stake? No aircraft will fly for 11 years. It is a long way ahead, and we have many challenges to pass through, and world conditions will probably change enormously by the time we get there. I am sure what I am saying is obvious to the Minister and her government colleagues and I ask to be forgiven for reiterating it. There is a great deal at stake.

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this afternoon’s discussion, and will address some of the important questions raised. I am grateful to have the support of the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, and to hear his trenchant support for GCAP. That is noted, and I am sure it will also be noted by my noble friend Lord Robertson as he conducts his strategic defence review.

I know that the House has a keen interest in the UK’s work as part of GCAP. Together with our partners Japan and Italy we are working to deliver a next-generation combat aircraft with advanced survivability, sensors, weapons and data systems. As well as cutting-edge military technology, the programme is delivering significant economic benefits, with more than 3,500 people already working on GCAP across the UK.

The point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, about investment and opportunities for jobs, and in particular small businesses, was important and well made. I reassure her that there currently are over 600 organisations and academic institutions involved, including small businesses. I thank her for making that point.

I am not an MoD Minister, and my noble friend Lord Coaker would be unhappy with me if I started to give too many of my own opinions on defence issues. We are looking today at the privileges and immunities that will enable us to continue with the GIGO establishment. In doing so we will be able to better support GCAP’s programme aims and fulfilment of the Government’s objectives. We will also be better placed to work with international partners and influence the combat air industry as a result.

The noble Lord, Lord Howell, urged us to handle this programme with sensitivity. He gave wise counsel and his speech was well received. I will keep his wise words in mind.

Just as my noble friend Lord Robertson will hear the support given to GCAP by the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, I am equally sure that he will hear the argument made by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley, and the words of support he shared with us.

I am aware of the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, about the International Agreements Committee. I will discuss this with our business managers. Obviously, there will be no desire to delay anything any further than necessary. He makes the exact point that I would have made, sitting where he is, but we want to make sure that we can proceed in a timely manner. There will be opportunities to scrutinise this, as noble Lords would expect. I also take the noble Lord’s point about the strategic defence review, and ask him to note that we have brought this here today in a timely way.

The noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, asked an important question about where the location will be and when that announcement will be made—the answer is in due course. I am told that there are commercial sensitivities around this, which I am sure he will appreciate, but I am heartened to know that there would be considerable pride taken in hosting this organisation, wherever it ends up being established.

As a Government, we of course welcome the opportunity to work with the Indo-Pacific region. No reluctance should be interpreted in any way about the Government’s enthusiasm for working with Indo-Pacific nations. I speak as the new Minister for Latin America, so I am very keen that we take this approach.

My heart always sinks a little when I am challenged by my noble friend Lord Liddle. We do not enter these arrangements lightly. There are clear benefits for both defence capability and jobs and skills. My noble friend made a strong case for this strategic defence review. He is very well placed to make sure that his view is known to his noble friend Lord Robertson.

I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, for his offer of support and assistance. His experience in this and in the other place will be invaluable.

The issue of further partners was raised by my noble friend Lord Liddle and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. All three GCAP partners have highlighted our openness to working with other nations through this programme while supporting the objective of the core partners, delivering a successful programme and keeping us on course for a 2035 in-service date. Any decisions on wider partnering will be made together by the core partners.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, introduced her question by talking about membership of the EU and whether we might wish to rejoin. I am not sure if that is her party’s position currently—I may have missed it—but it is not currently the Government’s position.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

To clarify, I was merely speculating about where a country might wish to join—or rejoin under Article 49. I was not suggesting that noble Lords on any Benches are necessarily pushing for it at this stage.

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am sure that the whole House is grateful to the noble Baroness for that clarification.

Motion agreed.