Domestic Violence

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Westminster Hall

[David Simpson]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. Abuse can go on for so long that it becomes the norm and a way of life, but I will deal with that when I move on to reporting.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman—my hon. Friend—on securing this important debate. He is quite right to say that domestic violence cuts across sex, race and socio-economic boundaries, but it often involves men committing violence against women. He mentioned his pledge a moment ago, and I commend to him the White Ribbon campaign, which urges men to sign a pledge

“never to commit, condone, or remain silent about men’s violence against women in all its forms.”

We could all show some leadership by signing that pledge and by hosting public signings in our constituencies, as I plan to do at the end of the month.

[David Simpson]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Folk need to sign that pledge. Violence against women, men and children is totally wrong.

Today, people in my constituency are suffering at the hands of brutal, self-centred, manipulative individuals who are intent on destroying the lives of their partners and children. It is time that their actions were halted. I have spoken with women, men and children from Lurgan, Banbridge, Portadown and more rural areas who have been subjected to domestic violence, and I recognise the need for the abuse to stop. While this is a debate for the whole UK, I beg your indulgence, Dr McCrea, as I shall speak primarily about my constituency and Northern Ireland.

Research on domestic violence in Northern Ireland shows that one in four women have experienced or currently experience domestic violence, and that it accounts for approximately one fifth of all recorded violent crime in the Province. Over the past few years, an average of five people have been killed each year as a direct result of domestic violence. The Police Service of Northern Ireland attends an average of 60 domestic violence-related incidents a day, but it recognises that a large amount of such crime goes unreported. Every week, on average, police attend over 400 domestic incidents and deal with more than 100 domestic assaults. If there are 400 incidents in each of the 52 weeks of the year, that equates to over 20,000 call outs relating to domestic violence. It is well known that over 30% of all domestic violence starts during pregnancy. Since 1999, Women’s Aid across Northern Ireland gave refuge to 14,714 women, and 14,356 children and young people.

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[David Simpson]

The hon. Gentleman is right that children suffer, and not only in childhood, but as they grow into adulthood. The experience remains with them and the visions of what they saw as children stick with them, and they might affect their own relationships, because they could feel that such behaviour is the right and natural thing to do.

[Andrew Percy]

I fully support what has been said. May I give a real example? Recently, I joined the police on patrol as part of the police parliamentary scheme and we attended a young lady who told us that she had been violently assaulted by her partner on no fewer than 50 occasions. Apart from her physical injuries, the saddest thing that evening was the story she told about her four-year-old son now hitting her. Making children witness domestic violence is child abuse and should be dealt with as such.

[David Simpson]

Absolutely. It almost becomes a natural thing for children to do, because they witness it and think it is the right thing to do.

I am aware that the PSNI is actively seeking to tackle the crime in Northern Ireland. It is startling to see that within the Province 9,546 crimes with a domestic abuse motivation were recorded in 2011-12, which was more than the total for robbery, armed robbery, hijacking, theft, arson, dangerous driving, recorded sexual offences, handling stolen goods and offences under anti-terrorism legislation put together. We can thus see the significance of domestic violence in Northern Ireland alone.

The statistics make that a bit more real: the PSNI responded to a domestic incident every 23 minutes; there was a domestic crime every 60 minutes, approximately; there were 20 recorded offences of murder, seven of which, or 35%, were classed as having a domestic motivation; and 550 people were raped or suffered attempted rape. The statistics are harrowing and that is why priority must be given by the Government and by the devolved regions to tackling the problem head on. Under-reporting is key, given that only around 25% of women ever report their worst assault to the police, and on average a victim is assaulted 35 times before reporting the incident or seeking support. That should not be the case, and it is time for us and for the Government to put our heads above the parapet and to be counted when it comes to tackling such behaviour.

I briefly mentioned the economic cost, but it is well documented that on average domestic violence costs the economy £180 million a year, owing to victims’ absence from work because of injury or disability, and the time taken by criminal justice and support agencies to seek alternative housing, financial and schooling solutions for victims and their children. Those are simply a few of the critical realities and choices that victims face when they seek to escape or address violence and abuse in their own home. Domestic violence also has a significant impact on the cost to our health service as a whole and to our policing and justice system. Nor can it be ignored, especially at a time of budgetary cuts and economic recession. Clearly, it is a significant sum of money and another reason, if one is needed, why it is important for the issue to be a priority.

We have looked at Northern Ireland and domestic violence-related statistics there, but the issue is a UK-wide one, which we should all take seriously. Let us look at the UK as a whole. Data from the crime survey suggest that 30% of women and 16.3% of men in England and Wales will experience domestic violence in their lifetime. In 2012-13 there were 1.2 million female and 700,000 male victims of domestic abuse in England and Wales, while 60,080 incidents of domestic abuse were recorded by the police in Scotland, compared with 59,847 incidents in 2011-12, according to Government websites.

I welcome the efforts of the Home Office, in particular the proposals to strengthen the law on domestic abuse, a consultation on which was published in August 2014 by the Home Secretary. Furthermore, I welcome the four key principles of the approach in the strategy paper—to prevent, to provide support, to work in partnership and to take action to reduce the risk—and the extension of the definition which aims to increase awareness that young people in the age group between 16 and 17 can experience domestic violence, to encourage more of them to come forward to get the support that they need. There is also the work on domestic violence protection orders which, following the successful pilot scheme, have been rolled out across England and Wales from March this year. DVPOs give the police more powers in the immediate aftermath of a domestic violence attack, in particular the power to ban a perpetrator from returning home and from having contact with the victim for up to 28 days.

The domestic violence disclosure scheme, commonly known as Clare’s law, is also commendable, as is the fact that it was rolled out across England and Wales from March 2014. Under the scheme an individual can ask the police to check whether a new or existing partner has a violent past—the “right to ask”. If the checks show that a person may be at risk of domestic violence from their partner, the police will consider disclosing the information.

I have mentioned a few initiatives across England and Wales that I believe have gone some way in helping to address domestic violence. I am interested in hearing the opinions of other Members on those initiatives, and, in particular, their assessment of how successful the measures have been in their constituencies. However, the initiatives need to be rolled out across the whole of the UK. This House should also work with the devolved Governments to develop best practice that can be applied across the entire kingdom. The problem is too vast for us to bury our heads in the sand and say that we have tried our best; we need to redouble our efforts and work towards a zero tolerance of such dastardly deeds.

We also need to look, as a whole, at the increased dependency on refuges. Statements have been made about refuges such as:

“Going into a refuge saved my life, and gave hope and a future to my children”.

Another lady said that going into a refuge had given her

“the support and strength that has helped me rebuild my life”.

On hearing statements such as those, one would have to be a very hard individual not to stop and think about the need for such centres and the impact for good they have had.

We all know, however, that to better protect women and children who are survivors of domestic violence and empower them to access the Women’s Aid national network of specialist domestic violence refuges, that network needs to be protected and a new model of funding for refuges has to be developed. The law also needs to be strengthened to recognise coercive control, which is the essence of domestic violence. Women’s Aid has a leading national network of refuges, but we know that it is facing an urgent crisis. Across England, more and more specialist refuges are experiencing massive funding cuts and are being closed down. That crisis will cost lives.

Ultimately more funding is required to tackle these problems, and reform of domestic violence law is needed. We must ask ourselves as legislators whether there is a criminalisation gap that ensures that the pattern of domestic violence and coercive control remains outside the reach of the existing criminal law, which prohibits only single incidents of physical injury. That is food for thought for us all.

A recent report by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary on police responses to domestic violence found

“alarming and unacceptable weaknesses in some core policing activity”.

It highlighted that the police often did not recognise or respond appropriately to domestic violence and coercive control. HMIC made particular recommendations about training for police and also recommended that there be a renewed effort to tackle domestic violence.

The HMIC report, work by Victim’s Voice and surveys by front-line domestic violence professionals all clearly underline the need for change, to create a culture in which victims report much earlier and are believed when they do, and where the dynamics and patterns of abuse are recognised and understood. I believe, as does Women’s Aid, that criminalising coercive control, psychological abuse and patterns of abusive behaviour would go some way to assisting in stamping out such activity.

I am well aware that these problems cannot be solved overnight. Addressing the issue of domestic violence will not be easy. It will require a great deal of hard work and co-operation. However, I hope that this debate will send a clear message to people in Northern Ireland—and, indeed, the rest of the United Kingdom—that domestic violence is never acceptable. It is my sincere desire that those who are suffering abuse will realise that this Government take the matter seriously, and that we will use the powers available to us to ensure that those who are at risk are protected, so that those who are guilty of the crime will have no hiding place in this society.

Foreign National Offenders (Removal)

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

One of the changes we have made in the Immigration Act is to give us the power to deport people before they appeal, except in certain circumstances where to do so would lead to serious and irreversible harm, and I think that goes straight to the heart of what my hon. Friend is saying. However, there are cases where it is genuinely difficult to deport somebody because of lack of documentation, difficulties in being absolutely clear about their nationality, or problems with the country to which we wish to deport them actually accepting them.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Some of the higher profile cases in my constituency, particularly in Goole, relate to people who came here under the previous Labour Government’s policy of unlimited immigration from EU accession states. What I and my constituents cannot understand is how any EU national who has a criminal record can get here in the first place, or how they can remain here once they commit an offence. Is it not time that these ridiculous rules on the free movement of labour were torn up so that the system works for British people and my constituents?

[Mrs May]

I will make two points in response to my hon. Friend. First, in relation to dealing with those from the EU who have committed criminal offences, being able to exchange information and know who they are is one of the first steps. That is why the Government have said that we want to rejoin the European criminal records information system and connect to SIS II so that we have that information at the border and can act on it. Secondly, he is absolutely right that the whole issue of free movement, as the Prime Minister said earlier, is one that we feel we need to address. It is something we have been dealing with over the past four and a half years in Europe. We have made some progress in relation to criminal activity, such as sham marriages and so forth, but abuse of free movement is something we need to deal with.

Home Affairs

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The hon. Gentleman is right that there has always been an understanding, but the problem is that, sadly, people do not see enough clarity in legislation to give them the confidence that that is the case. Indeed, they sometimes see reports of cases where the opposite has been the case. It is, therefore, important to give greater clarity in the law and that is what the Bill will do.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I spend a lot of my time as a community first responder with the ambulance service in Yorkshire, and when I turn up at emergencies, I often find that people are unwilling to involve themselves because, although the law may well protect them, they do not feel that it will do so. Therefore, I wholeheartedly welcome the Bill and offer the Home Secretary my experience as an example of why more clarity is needed.

[Mrs May]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, who has hit the nail on the head. The social action, responsibility and heroism Bill will, I hope, send a very clear message to everyone that they should have the confidence of knowing that they can go to help others and not fear the consequences for themselves.

Although not specifically referenced in the Gracious Speech last week, the Government intend to introduce a draft Bill to modernise the way in which compensation is paid to individuals and businesses that experience loss or damage to property caused by riots. The Riot (Damages) Act 1886 has not been updated since it was introduced. Consequently, it does not properly reflect modern society—for example, it does not cover damage to cars.

The precise detail of the draft Bill will be determined following the public consultation that I launched last week. This will build on the findings of the independent review of the Act, which was published in November 2013 and is part of our substantial work since the riots of August 2011 to ensure that compensation arrangements keep pace with modern life. It is right that we continue to protect vulnerable people and businesses from the financial impact of riots.

This Government can be proud of the reforms and legislation that we have put in place. These Bills will build on that work. They will ensure that we can hunt, prosecute and lock up the criminals behind the appalling crime of modern slavery; that we have a criminal justice system that properly punishes offenders, while being fair to the taxpayer; that we can better disrupt those who support and benefit from all forms of organised crime; and that we continue to encourage good works and good deeds.

On crime and on justice, this Government’s legislative programme is working to ensure a safe and secure Britain in which honest, hard-working people can prosper. I commend it to the House.

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[Andrew Percy]

The shadow Secretary of State came to my constituency recently. She did not give me notice of her visit, but she may have heard from residents in Goole of their concerns about immigration. The visit did no good: the Labour vote completely collapsed in the Euro elections. Will she now take this opportunity to apologise to residents in Goole for what happened in 2007, which led massive numbers of immigrants to come to our town and put huge pressure on schools, housing and our public services?

[Yvette Cooper]

I must tell the hon. Gentleman that, unfortunately, public concern about immigration is much higher now than it was at the time of the general election. I hope that he will apologise to his constituents for backing a net migration target and promising that it would be met by the time of the next general election, but utterly failing to meet it.

The Government are not setting out the practical things that they could do. For example, they could stop agencies recruiting only from abroad, close loopholes in the minimum wage, go much further on unfair zero-hours contracts and make serious exploitation a crime. All those are things that the Government could do.

In response to my hon. Friends’ questions, the Home Secretary commented about the Passport Office, but I must say that her answers were incredibly complacent and simply do not reflect the experience of MPs right across the country. She claimed that all the targets are being met. From what she said, we would think that everything was absolutely fine. Tell that to James Bowness from Cumbria, who nearly missed his chance to qualify for the Commonwealth games because his passport did not arrive in time; pensioner Eileen Shepherd from Darlington, who missed her dream cruise because her passport did not arrive; or the Vernon family from Coventry, who missed their first family holiday abroad. They all applied in time, but the Passport Office let them down.

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[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), who, as ever, made a thoughtful and important speech on an issue that generally unites the House rather than divides it.

I apologise to the House for being away for a short time while I was attending the Health Committee, but of course I was here for the opening speeches and the first few contributions. I want to focus on a number of areas related to home affairs, including policing in my constituency, immigration and criminals in our jails, including several issues that have arisen following a visit that I recently made to a prison near my constituency.

As I said in my earlier intervention on the Home Secretary, I welcome the social action, responsibility and heroism Bill. Some people might not think that it is necessary, but those who try to do good as volunteers or just as passers-by in society often feel that the law is against them and they are not protected, as may well be the case, and anything that gives a nod in that direction is important.

I have mentioned my own experience working as a first responder with the ambulance service every weekend. One of my staff members—they are all trained as first responders as well—recently came across somebody who was in cardiac arrest, and had sadly died, but was laid out on the side of the road. He was the first one on the scene who was prepared to do anything to try to assist that person. There is not only the fear of getting involved, which is very difficult to get rid of, but the fear in the backs of many people’s minds that if they do something they may make the situation even worse and then end up being sued for it.

This applies not only to such experiences. Whenever it snows in my village, I clear the section of the path between the old people’s home and the pub, and people say as they are going past, “Be careful or you’ll get sued.” Thankfully, I have not been; I think some of the residents of the old people’s home have enjoyed being able to get to the Percy Arms. Although I have not faced any legal action, a lot of people have the perception that, if they try to do right, they will fall foul of some legal issue and end up being arrested or sued in the courts. I very much welcome this Bill as a nod in the right direction in that regard.

I want to say a little about crime and policing locally. I have never been a particular fan of the reductions in the police budget, which is why I always try to speak every time that we agree the police estimates, but I will not rehash my previous speeches on that subject. An awful lot more needs to be done on partnership working with the police. Whenever I meet the police locally, they outline the financial savings that they have to make, and I am fully conscious of the difficulties involved in that. However, I still get the impression—I will give a practical example in a moment—that the police have not fully embraced proper partnership working and engaging with other agencies such as local authorities and other emergency services. When they talk about partnership working, they seem to mean that they are prepared to work with other police forces, but when it comes to working with others there is still something of a silo mentality. More needs to be done by the leadership nationally, to drive the issue forward and make sure that some of the savings can be realised. I am concerned that when it comes to back-office costs and senior management, not enough is being done at the top to share work between agencies other than police forces.

My constituency is represented by two local authorities: the East Riding of Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire. North Lincolnshire council has been very forward thinking in playing its part not only in helping the police and crime commissioner to achieve his crime plan, but in reducing crime and the fear of crime locally. The council has funded a number of CCTV projects, including in Epworth and Winterton in my constituency, for which I and the ward councillors were pleased to secure the funding.

The council has also funded police community support officers for rural communities. Crime mapping and the allocation of police service resources focus on crime hot spots, which tend not to be in rural areas, so in my own area, North Lincolnshire council worked with me on a project to find funding for five police community support officers—two on the Isle of Axholme, one in the Burton and Winterton policing team, one in the Brigg team and another in the Barton team. They are now in post and are having a real impact.

Unfortunately, the area in which we are having trouble with the police force locally relates to the need to go further and expand the project with even more council-funded PCSOs. It is not often that one public body tries to throw money at another, only for the intended recipient not to want it, but that is a problem in my own area at present. The council is not able to shovel more money at the police force to employ more PCSOs, and none of the various reasons for that are acceptable either to myself as a local representative or to local people who tell us strongly that they do not believe that policing in our rural communities is being prioritised, because the crime rates mean that resources are not being allocated to them. When the local authority steps up and says, “We will buy in that extra provision to make people feel safe,” and the police say they do not want it, something is obviously going very badly wrong.

I am not criticising Humberside police, who have done a fine job of handling the significant financial challenge that they face. Their officers are dedicated and they have a good chief constable and senior officer team, but their intransigence on this issue is a cause of deep concern and regret. A lot more needs to be done regarding partnership working, and the police need to change some of their practices to properly embrace that.

It was interesting to hear the pro-immigration speech of the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) and I suppose we should respect him for that. I expect him to be pro-immigration, given that he wants to make very large numbers of Scottish people immigrants in England. Perhaps it is no wonder that he is so pro-immigration.

What concerns me about the immigration debate is that since the Euro election results, too many people seem to want to jump up and say that we should respond by informing people that they are wrong to think what they think about immigration. I find that deeply patronising and insulting to my constituents. I have seen that happen in my own area. When the migrant support grant went, I was summoned to a meeting to discuss it. There has been significant immigration from the European Union to the town of Goole since 2003. When I intervened on the shadow Home Secretary earlier, I asked her to apologise to the people of Goole, who have seen up to between 20% and 25% of their town come from eastern Europe. She chose not to apologise for that or for visiting my constituency recently without informing me. That is the context of why people in Goole are very concerned about immigration, and they should be listened to.

I was called to that meeting to talk about that fund by people, none of whom live in the Goole area, who wanted to tell me how awful it is that the people in Goole think the things they think. Yes, people sometimes do not use language that we might like them to use, but I find it wrong to brush aside their concerns in a patronising way and to talk down to them, saying, “Oh, Mrs Smith, you really mustn’t use language like that. How dare you.” Mrs Smith is not a racist. She is concerned about her community when her street in Goole—in many cases, a street of terraced houses—is suddenly peopled by large numbers of young males from eastern Europe. That has changed the dynamic of her street, and her concerns are legitimate.

This is not about rounding on Mrs Smith to make her better understand why immigration is good for this country and why she should put up with it, but about responding to her concern. She is concerned not about people who want to contribute coming to my constituency to work, but about the uncontrolled nature of the numbers and, in some cases, the types of people. Some of the large number of young people behave in a way that many in our area do not understand and do not consider acceptable, and they want that behaviour to be challenged. It very much concerns me that, since the vote in Europe, the debate seems to be all about how awful it is that people think such things, as opposed to trying to address their genuine concerns.

In my constituency almost half, if not more, of the intake of some schools are children—mainly Polish and Latvian—for whom English is their second language. Some of our GP lists have been closed, so there is a mad situation in which people whose children return to Goole after having temporarily moved away now cannot register with the GP who was their family GP when they were growing up. To use the example of Mrs Smith, she would of course look at that and think, “How is it that my son or daughter, who was born and bred in this town, cannot now go to the doctor who has cared for them all through their life, while someone can suddenly appear from another country and register with that doctor, with no controls on their ability to do so?” The anger comes from such a perception, and until we start to recognise that people have legitimate concerns—I have mentioned housing issues—we will get nowhere.

I am sorry to say that none of the current responses of any of the parties is acceptable or goes far enough. To try to get tough on non-EU immigration and all the rest of it in order to bring down the numbers is fine as far as it goes. However, the situation in my constituency is not about non-EU immigration, but EU immigration. We have to do something about the free movement of labour across Europe. We are losing people and losing the country on this issue, and until we address that fact, UKIP or other fringe parties of that nature—I would not necessarily call UKIP a fringe party now—will gain traction. I hope that in the next year or two, if we get a renegotiation on Europe, this issue will be addressed. Uncontrolled EU immigration is no longer acceptable and is not working.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned housing, employment opportunities and health. The same also applies to education, in that school places have been lost to those living in such areas because of the level of immigration.

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. In fact, I mentioned schools in relation to their intake. We have had the problem of people living just outside the catchment area of the school that they went to as a child, but finding, because of this massive pressure on places, that they cannot get their child into their old school. All that feeds into a perception of unfairness and of immigration being bad, which I do not think people at the top have necessarily understood.

[Sammy Wilson]

Not only have we not put in the infrastructure to facilitate the huge increase in the number of people, but even when concerns are legitimate, people who wish to discuss them are immediately silenced by being dismissed as racist. They are not racist and do not intend to be racist at all, but they have genuine concerns that need to be addressed. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that is half the problem?

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. Because I had criticised the uncontrolled nature of immigration into my own town, when I was dragged to the meeting with various agencies, I was told that the things I had said were unacceptable. Needless to say, that meeting did not last very long or end very well when I robustly thanked the people for coming from their lovely villages in the richest parts of the East Riding of Yorkshire, where they do not have to live with large amounts of uncontrolled immigration. I thanked them for sharing their views, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that when people raise legitimate concerns, they are patronised and spoken down to by people who, all too often, do not live in these communities.

[Mr Frank Field]

Were any of the people who came to the meeting, other than the hon. Gentleman himself, elected?

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely none of them were elected; the right hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

I would like to conclude on two small points. The second issue that I hope the Home Office will address, and about which it can do something practical, is foreign-registered vehicles, which feed into people’s perception of unfairness. I asked a couple of parliamentary questions in the previous Session about foreign-registered vehicles overstaying the six-month limit, and found that on one occasion there had been four prosecutions in the whole of the United Kingdom for vehicles staying beyond the period permitted. When I asked a similar question on another occasion in the previous Session, I believe that precisely zero vehicles had been prosecuted.

The issue is one of vehicles not being recorded when they arrive at the United Kingdom border, or when they leave. People in my town see the same vehicles and report them to my office, and we report them to the police. They see vehicles that have been here a year, possibly even two, that are still in our town and are not registered, paying tax or subject to UK insurance. The Government must take a lead on this issue. The only way to solve it is through better control at the border.

Finally, I want to discuss prisons, although I am perhaps stretching a debate on home affairs, given the Ministers present. I recently visited HMP Lindholme in Doncaster on the edge of my constituency. I was staggered when the governor told me about the problem there with mobile telephones and how much crime is being directed from inside the prison. Something must be done about that. We were told that for about 1,300 prisoners they had recorded 600 or 700 mobile phone signals coming from inside the prison. The blockers are not in place, although the technology is catching up.

The Government could take a strong lead on something that the governor and her team raised with me: when they identify the contracts of the phones being used inside the prison, the mobile phone operators are not very keen to terminate the numbers. That could be achieved relatively simply, so I hope that Ministers will look at that and seek to take a lead on it. It seems to me, as it would to my constituents, incomprehensible that people can direct criminal operations from behind bars. Something really must be done about that.

Having danced around some issues that are important to my constituents, I will leave it there and look forward to the Minister’s response.

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[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty), who has campaigned assiduously on the issue of modern-day slavery. I pay tribute to him for the work he has done and for the attention to detail he has shown, which is so important when it comes to landmark legislation such as this.

My experience of modern-day slavery stemmed from my own professional contact with people who at that time were still being treated as defendants, but whom we now know increasingly must be treated as victims. It first manifested itself when I started to see a number of cases involving young Vietnamese people who had come into this country unlawfully, having spent tens of thousands of pounds to get here through many different member states of the EU and further beyond, and who were now in effect the prisoners of those who had brought them here, press-ganged into work as gardeners looking after cannabis or other crops, or press-ganged into prostitution and other crimes. These people were treated as defendants; it is clear that they are as much the victims of the crimes of their gangmasters as wider society.

That increasing realisation on my part—as somebody playing a small role in the criminal justice system—has been added to by people from all parties and none and by people from outside this place with great knowledge and understanding of the experiences of those who are trafficked, culminating in us dealing not just with the issue of trafficking, but with the more general issue of slavery. The definition of what that means in the modern age is an important one. Unfortunately, the criminal mind moves very quickly and as soon as existing types of abuse are found and stamped out, new and ingenious ways to continue that criminality emerge. That is why, when the Bill has its Second Reading and goes into Committee, it is important that we make sure that the definition of slavery does not in any way end up being a victim of a lack of foresight. In other words, it has to be future-proofed so that the examples given within the statute are non-exhaustive and allow prosecutors and the police to take action to deal with developing forms of that criminality. That is vital. We in this place are pressed for time and we do not have the resources to continue to return to the criminal law. The best criminal laws in my opinion are those that stand the test of time and prove up to the task of fast-moving developments in criminality.

That brings me to a more general point. It is clear from my examination of Professor Jonathan Shepherd of Cardiff university’s annual study of accident and emergency admissions that, while violent crime seems to be declining in society, crime is increasingly taking place online. That online criminality is now entering the experience of thousands of our constituents—day in, day out—and they come to us with problems that sometimes seem to be beyond the police’s ability to deal with. That, to me, is the greatest challenge we face in the modern era. We are patting ourselves on the back about a society that seems to be becoming less violent, but at the same time we ignore the online risks at our peril.

I know that the Government understand the problem and that the police understand it, as the need for more training and greater expertise of police officers in dealing with online criminality becomes ever greater as the years pass. I see a role not only for this House in framing legislation to combat online criminality, but very much one for our police and crime commissioners and all those charged with the responsibility of meeting the needs of the people we represent.

I commend the Queen’s Speech in respect of measures on home affairs and justice. As a humble Back Bencher, I am particularly encouraged to note that my pleas are being listened to. I perhaps sound a little surprised when I say that, but it is encouraging to know that the ideas of Members of Parliament can find their way through the process and result in some action. To my mind, that certainly restores some of the faith I have in the ability of individuals in this place of whatever party to try to influence the process for the better.

I am particularly encouraged, too, by the fact that the Government recognise the challenge they face regarding the recovery of confiscation assets. It is disturbing that only 18% of confiscation orders worth over £1 million are, in fact, recovered. That is a huge amount of money. It is not only a huge resource that we are missing; it is a standing affront to the justice system itself. Why pass court orders at all if they will have no meaning in reality? Why do we go through the rigmarole of applying the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and its strong measures without clear results—not only for the taxpayer, but for society as a whole?

The justice of the situation is important, but it is also about good old-fashioned efficiency. That is why the package in the Serious Crime Bill to increase from 10 to 14 years maximum sentences for those in default on orders over £1 million, together with an increase in sentencing powers for orders worth over £0.5 million, is a wise one. The issue of automatic early release—we have heard it mentioned in other contexts—is particularly relevant when it comes to those who are serving sentences in default of payment. It has already been rightly established by the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 that the liability to pay the order is not extinguished by the service of a term in default, but to allow an automatic early release for those in default seems to me not only an affront to common sense, but hardly any incentive whatever for the wrongdoer or criminal to pay the compensation made out in the confiscation order. In other words, we need more of a stick approach when dealing with offenders who are consistently in default of important court orders and think that they can just while away their time and hope that all will be forgotten. That is not good enough.

The 18% figure has to rise. I will carefully watch out in the years ahead to see how it improves and how we can change the law, while improving the way in which we undertake confiscation. I urge all prosecutors and those charged with this important responsibility to use their judgment carefully and not constantly seek huge theoretical figures of benefit, but to look for what is realisable and discover what can be converted into cash or an asset that can be confiscated for the purpose of further law enforcement.

I also want to see an end to the rather depressing catfights that I have sometimes observed between different arms of law enforcement in relation to their particular roles. For example, a certain type of forfeiture has required money to go into one pot rather than another. Division of that kind is unhelpful, and does not lead to a properly co-ordinated approach to the confiscation of criminal assets.

I was interested and stimulated by some of what has been said about immigration. I think it incumbent on all of us to show leadership when it comes to such issues. We hear a great deal on the doorstep, and read a great deal in the newspapers, about the myths of migration, but we do not hear or read enough of the facts and the truths. Over the centuries, this land has benefited from migration. We are a land of migrants. We are a rich mosaic of people whose blood comes from all sorts of lands, and we should rejoice in that. We should remember that it has made this country truly great.

At the same time, leadership demands that we listen carefully to those who have justified concerns. When people are scared, we should not fan the flames of fear; we should offer the hand of reassurance, the strong arm of guidance, and the leadership that I believe will take us through these difficult years and demonstrate that, as a country, we are not only tolerant, but welcoming and accepting of people who want to come here, to play their part in our nation story, to make their contribution—whether through work or by other means—and to be a responsible part of our communities. That is what we want. That is what everyone with an understanding of what it is to be British wants. We have heard today about British values, and I believe that a sense of acceptance and a rejection of separation are very much part of what it is to be British.

We cannot go far wrong if we start on that basis. Then we can talk about the issues here: then we can make proper distinctions between non-EU and EU migration, and talk in a reasoned way about what the free movement directive actually means. It is not an unqualified right for people to come here, fold their arms and do nothing, and it never was. It applies to people who fall into certain categories—who are workers, or are self-sufficient—and who have a right to remain here. That is the reality, and it is a far cry from the nightmare scenarios being painted by those who wish to whip up the flames of separation and to profit in some way from fear. The vast majority of the people whom I see coming here want to work and to make a contribution, and many, after they have done their work, will return home to their countries of origin.

Let us not forget that while 1 million people or more are coming here from other EU countries, an equivalent number of UK citizens are going to other EU countries. Where is the mischief in that? What can possibly be wrong with a free-market system that allows such movements?

[Andrew Percy]

I will tell my hon. Friend what is wrong with it. It means an uncontrolled influx into towns such as Goole, in my constituency, which has not been planned or prepared for properly, and which places a massive strain on public services. My constituents are very welcoming: they will even accept folk from Lancashire. We simply want to know how many people are coming, and we want the resources that will enable us to control the numbers properly. Unfortunately, the free movement directive does not allow us to control them at all.

[Mr Buckland]

My hon. Friend has made a fair point, but I am afraid that he is in error. The directive provides a power that allows member states to have a registration system for people who wish to stay here for longer than three months. Let us not propagate the myth that the directive is an open door. It is not, and, with domestic enforcement, it can be better managed.

My hon. Friend makes a proper point about planning and public services, but we must also remember that without some migration some of the jobs that need to be done in our economy are not going to be done, and the question we have to ask is, who will do that work?

I am a great campaigner for the rights of people with disabilities, and I passionately believe they have their role to play in our growing work force. I know that is what they want, and that is also what they deserve, but getting to that ideal stage takes time. It takes time for employers to start to understand the benefits of employing people who perhaps have more challenges than others. While I want to get there, I understand the pressure on employers who, for example, cannot collect their crop or who cannot find a suitable person to fulfil a care role. Working with employers to encourage more employment locally—more indigenous employment, as it were—is a laudable aspiration and is the right thing to do, but to try artificially to close a door is bad news for our country and our economy and is not a realistic approach to a problem that has deeply complex origins and should not be viewed through the prism of cheap headlines and political slogans. That is what happens far too often in the debate on migration, and it is time we stopped that misleading and unhelpful approach. Let us show leadership on that issue.

Turning to issues relating to the UK passport agency, may I thank it for having helped a constituent of mine reach the beaches of Normandy last week? Mr Harry Prescott is now 92 years of age. The last time he was in Normandy he was a 21-year-old Royal Marine in Operation Overlord. By an odd quirk, he was not classified as a British citizen. He was born in Canada to UK parents, and for various reasons never ended up with a British passport. He wanted to play his part in the 70th anniversary commemorations, however, but when the time came for him to apply for a passport, he encountered a number of blocks to his application—the sort of bureaucracy that I know drives Members of this House quietly round the bend and which was certainly causing him a degree of frustration. I was contacted by 47 Royal Marine Commando Association about his predicament, and together we were able to prevail on the passport service to pull its finger out and get on with the job of issuing him with a passport. He was therefore able to join his comrades and colleagues and play his part in commemorating the momentous events that took place in Normandy 70 years ago. I therefore offer my genuine thanks, via my hon. Friend the Minister, to those in the passport service who made that possible.

With the help of Action for Children, one of our leading children’s charities, and other parliamentarians, I have been campaigning for a number of years now for a reform to the criminal law of child neglect. Paul Goggins has been referred to in many other contexts, but it would be wholly wrong of me not to pay tribute to him for the work he did on this important issue. The Crime and Courts Act 2013 was in Bill form when Paul presented an amendment in his and my name which will, in effect, be the basis of a provision that will appear in the Serious Crime Bill. The argument is a simple one. The criminal law of child neglect was drafted way back in 1868—some 150 years ago. It served an important purpose in its time, but times move on. Just because a law is old does not mean it is a bad law—far from it—but with the knowledge and understanding we now have about the full effects of all types of abuse of children and young people, I think it was remiss, to say the least, that we had not before now updated the criminal law to keep pace not only with developments in science and understanding, but with the developing civil and family law that already recognises varying types of abuse, including emotional abuse, when considering issues of family protection and whether or not a child is at risk or has experienced significant harm.

Very often, emotional abuse does not come alone. It will be accompanied, sadly, by physical and sexual abuse. Daniel Pelka is one of many well-known cases in which the signs of emotional abuse were emerging before the physical abuse took its toll on that poor young lad. It pains me to think that the police, the prosecuting authorities and all those with responsibility for child protection did not have that extra tool in the box when it came to dealing with emotional abuse. I am not saying that it might have changed the course of young Daniel’s life, but it could have made a difference to his life and it certainly will make a difference to the lives of hundreds of children and young people in this country if and when we amend the law to include emotional abuse. The criminal law is an interesting thing for those who have been imbued with it for the past 20 years, as I have. I believe that a lot of people would have been shocked to realise that section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 covered only physical harm, but it was made crystal clear in a House of Lords case back in 1981 that that section was limited to the

“physical needs of the child and does not cover other aspects such as moral and educational”.

That meant that the door was firmly shut on emotional abuse.

A lot of people have asked me in the past few months how one defines emotional abuse and whether the new measure will not be a problem when it comes to parenting. Are we in danger of criminalising the firm but fair parent who deprives their child of an Xbox if there has been a misdemeanour in the household? Not a bit of it. It is not about firm but fair parenting. It is not about people who administer reasonable chastisement on their children. It is not about the millions of decent men and women who, like many of us in this Chamber, learn every day what it is to bring up a child. It is about the systematic abuse of children by people who either should know better or in some sad cases do not know better.

Spousal Visas

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I am delighted to have secured this debate on spousal visas, an issue on which the Minister has responded on a number of occasions. On one of the last such occasions, on 19 June in Westminster Hall, he explained that the spousal visa changes had three aims: dealing with fraud, namely, sham marriages; promoting better integration, including English language testing and tests on life in the UK; and preventing visa applicants from becoming a burden to the taxpayer. I do not necessarily have an objection to any of those aims. Indeed, I would like to see a tougher immigration system, but he also said in that debate that the changes are

“about preventing abuse and setting out sensible rules that people can follow.”—[Official Report, 19 June 2013; Vol. 564, c. 275WH.]

The question I wish to raise on behalf of one of my constituents is whether we are in fact following sensible rules, and whether the changes are affecting the people they are designed to impact upon.

This Government inherited the mess in the immigration system left by the previous Government. I, like all Conservative Members, was elected on the basis of having a tough immigration system and that is what I wish to see. In my constituency, however, the failure of the last Government was broadly around European Union immigration, which these rules do nothing to impact upon.

I pay tribute to the Minister, who has had to respond to issues around spousal visas on a number of occasions. He is a very competent Minister and I am sure he will be able to take on board my concerns, which I raise on behalf of one of my constituents, Gary Smith, who lives in Goole.

Gary is 43 and has been married for five years to his Cambodian wife Shantar. They have a three-year-old daughter, Aaliyhh, a British national of course, who currently resides with her mother in Cambodia; they have lived there for five years. Gary and Shantar have been married since 2008. Gary’s wife is a restaurant manager, a qualified teacher and a business partner in a local charity in Cambodia for which Gary used to work. His wife has been able to visit the UK but, unfortunately, because of these visa changes, she is unable to settle here.

Shantar’s visa application has been rejected on a number of grounds. Two of them were technical issues to do with some lost paperwork. The embassy in Cambodia apparently lost her English language certificate, which I have managed to get a copy of, and it is hoped that that problem will be solved. Another issue regards accommodation in the UK, which has been, or is being, resolved.

Unfortunately, Gary, a street sweeper with the East Riding of Yorkshire council, because of his income level, is unable to hit the £18,600 minimum income requirement to bring his wife of five years and the mother of their child to this country. With overtime, Gary earns £17,000 and, being a local government employee, he has had no significant rise for the last three years. He is currently supporting his family in Cambodia, sending out what will shortly amount to £200 a month just for school fees to educate his child, along with other support. That is as opposed to supporting his wife and child in this country. He lives in Goole, and the property in which he lives costs £450 a month. Council tax is less than £100 a month, and in our town there is no question but that on an income of up to £17,000 he could support his wife and child.

Moreover, Gary’s wife has been offered a job in the United Kingdom, and I have a letter from the employer—a very good employer—who says that the skills that she has as a restaurant manager would be greatly needed in the new project that the business is hoping to start in Goole. However, under the rules, the letter offering her a job means nothing and has no impact on the income threshold. Despite the fact that there are huge concerns in Goole about immigration, bearing in mind the fact that up to 25% of its population are EU migrants—that issue is raised regularly—800 Goolies have signed a petition in support of my constituents, and there is real support for Gary on the issue.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for introducing the debate. I have a constituent called Mrs Celia Elizabeth Parr who is married to a doctor from Ecuador, and they have a little child. Mrs Parr lives in Colyton, and she has enough self-employed income, but she has experienced huge problems getting her husband into the country. We very much support tighter immigration controls, but we seem to be stopping people who have a legitimate right to be here putting their family back together again.

[Andrew Percy]

I thank my hon. Friend, and I shall come on to the impact that that has had on decent people who just want to bring their family together and make a life here.

In relation to the income rule that has impacted on my constituent, I shall give the House the average incomes in our area, which has a low-wage economy. The average income in the East Riding of Yorkshire is £5 above the threshold. I represent the poorest part of the East Riding, and Gary lives in one of the bottom 25% most deprived areas in the country, so achieving £18,000 is something of which many people in our area can only dream. The average income in inner London is £34,749.

We may have low incomes, but we also have low house prices. The average house price in our area is £150,000, compared with the average in Greater London of £454,000, which is even more than my house cost. Gary could have the same job earning slightly more than that arbitrary £18,600, and he would be able to bring his wife in, despite the fact that he would have greater outgoings and a much lower disposable income than he has by virtue of the fact that he lives in Goole. I am grateful for a figure provided by the Royal College of Nursing to the all-party parliamentary group on migration, which has done a good job on this issue. The RCN points out that the majority of national health service care support workers earn a maximum of £17,253 a year. Anyone who is an NHS care support worker is not allowed to find love outside the country.

Since this issue came to light and I secured the debate, I have learned of several examples of the problem around the country, two of them involving US citizens who have been caught by the requirement. That is what concerns me most. The measure was supposed to impact on sham marriages, but who is it really affecting?

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for introducing this Adjournment debate. He mentioned American citizens, and that is exactly the situation in which one of my constituents finds himself, having been caught by the rules. He lives in the much higher-than-average wage area, as my hon. Friend mentioned, of central London, but his background is in academia. He is going into a well-paid job in industry, but he has spent the past three years in academia with much lower wages, so he has been caught by the rules.

[Andrew Percy]

Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend for that. As her constituency is in central London, the rules probably hit even harder than they do in mine. I know she will be working hard on behalf of her constituent. The point that she makes about the US is relevant. The figures from the Home Office show that the largest decline in family visas has been among applicants from the United States. In the year to March 2013 such visas were down by just under 1,000. In evidence to the all-party parliamentary group, the Migration Observatory points out that 47% of the UK working population last year would not meet the income criterion. In my constituency that figure would be an awful lot higher.

Denying some of those people access to join their family is having a detrimental effect on the UK economy. When they come here their passports are stamped with the words “No recourse to public funds”, but they are often people who, if they were here working, as in the case of my constituent, whose wife has a job offer, would be paying tax and contributing to the UK economy. I make no bones about wanting, as my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) said, a tougher immigration system. The English language testing is problematic for some, but I understand the importance of that in ensuring that people can come here and contribute. My constituent’s wife has a job offer, has a qualification in English, has studied with an Australian college and would be of benefit to our local community. It concerns me that we are affecting in particular immigration from countries that have a lot more in common with us than much of the EU immigration with which it is contrasted.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

One of the things that has distressed me about the many cases that I face in Slough is having to say to one or two of my constituents who are dual nationals from another EU country that it would be in their interests not to use their British citizenship, but to go and work in the country of another EU citizenship—say, Irish—and then bring their spouse here. As an EU citizen this rule would not divide their family. Any EU citizen who is using the free movement of workers privileges can be joined by their spouse.

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the hon. Lady for making it unnecessary for me to read out a paragraph of my speech. I am grateful for that as time is pressing. She made a point that I intended to make myself.

As I said before the intervention, it concerns me that the policy is having an impact on immigration from countries such as the US, Canada, Australia and many other Commonwealth countries, from which immigration to the UK would probably cause the least impact. The people most likely to be able to integrate well here, who bring English language skills and similar levels of education, are excluded. It is timely that a Minister from the Canadian Cabinet is watching the debate. Her country’s citizens would be greatly affected by the rules.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We may not refer to people outside the Chamber.

[Andrew Percy]

I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker, in the same way as I should have apologised earlier for wafting my petition. This is not the appropriate time to present a petition so I offer my apologies to you for that.

There is huge concern in the country about immigration. I understand the Government’s response to the issue, as I said previously, but constituents in my town, Goole, cannot understand why they see EU immigration being dealt with differently from non-EU immigration. We understand the legal position. I understand that the Minister cannot do anything about that under the current terms of our membership. Fortunately, we are on our way out of the EU, but it is hard to explain to my constituents why a British citizen with a British child in Cambodia, who works hard and is paying tax in this country, is unable to bring his family into this country, whereas we see increasing numbers of citizens coming from any EU country, without any English language requirement. It may not be a comfortable thing for people to hear but that is what people in my constituency have been saying about the rules.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart). I have a constituent who wants to be in Bristol to look after his sick parents. He has a Thai wife. They have moved to Spain so that they can take advantage of the laws there and eventually come to the UK. That is ludicrous. He has had to go and live in Spain with his wife and child although they have no connection with that country at all, as that is the only way round the rules. On the one hand we have EU-wide laws that apply to all EU citizens; on the other hand people in the UK are treated differently from people in Spain.

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. I thank the hon. Lady, who has campaigned on this issue and had a debate on it. She makes well the point that we have one rule for some people and a different rule for others. That option would not be available for my constituent, but perhaps those with a higher standard of education or more access to funds can get round the rules through another EU country, and that is a big concern to her constituents as it is to some of mine.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity and for the powerful speech that he is making. As he will know, another issue of huge concern is Syria. As he said, people cannot help whom they fall in love with. Does he agree that the case of Christine Gilmore, a constituent of mine who is trying to bring her husband, Ziad, over here, really shows that we have an extra need to prioritise those who are at threat in a war situation? Should not that be looked into as well?

[Andrew Percy]

My hon. Friend is a doughty campaigner for his constituents. The Minister will have heard that and I concur with what my hon. Friend said. I am conscious that I have only a couple of minutes before the Minister is due to reply, but my honourable neighbour is seeking to intervene, so I will give way to him.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene. He, of course, describes a very common situation in the area that we share in northern Lincolnshire, where, sadly, these cases are too numerous to mention. Is it not the fact that at the heart of this is family life being unfortunately disturbed and great distress caused because of rules that are probably well intentioned but have unforeseen consequences?

[Andrew Percy]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I do not disagree with the intention behind the rules. Wanting to cut down on sham marriages—absolutely. Wanting to put rules in place so that people come here and integrate better—absolutely. Wanting to make sure that people are not a burden on public funds—yes. But for my constituent, who lives in a lower wage area with a higher disposable income than somebody in the south of England, who is not able to bring his family in, and whose wife has a job offer that is not taken into account, the rules, well intentioned though they may be, fall down.

I am keen to hear the Minister’s response, so I end with a couple of points that I would like to see out of this. I have rebelled against my own party on the idea of regional pay, of which I am a passionate opponent, so I will just throw out for the Minister the idea of a regional variation and ask him to consider it without it necessarily being my idea. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) from a sedentary position may be offering it up as his own idea. We need to have some consideration of people’s disposable income and outgoings, for all the reasons that I have highlighted.

In a previous debate, the Minister, who is good and competent and cares about this area of policy, mentioned the possibility of considering whether job offers for applicants could be taken into account. Of course we need to ensure that fake job offers and so on are properly accounted for, but I would appreciate an update on that.

On behalf of my constituent, Gary Smith, I just make the plea to the Minister to look at this income-related element again. As I have said, this is a constituent with a wife to whom he has been married for five years, with a child whom they share. They are unable to come together at the moment. He does not want his wife to come here and claim benefits; he wants her to come here to work and to contribute to our local economy. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

2014 JHA Opt-out Decision

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Monday 15th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I have already said to the right hon. Gentleman and to others who have raised the issue of the explanatory memorandums that I am sorry that it was not possible to produce them at an earlier date. We have looked at the time available for scrutiny by the Select Committees and the Scrutiny Committee, and for the second vote on the potential measures that we might choose to opt back into. The explanatory memorandums were made available last week, and they are available to the Committees in their consideration of any measures that the Government should opt into or seek to rejoin. That information has now been made available and I hope that it will be able to inform the Committees’ considerations.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on asking us to vote on this opt-out today, but I am a little confused about the question of opting back in. We on this side do not like block votes, so will we be able to vote on each individual measure when we decide whether to opt back into them?

[Mrs May]

The decision on the form that that vote will take has not yet been made, but I am well aware of the views of some Members on that matter.

I said in my statement last week:

“Following our discussions in Europe, another vote will be held on the final list of measures that the UK will formally apply to rejoin.”—[Official Report, 9 July 2013; Vol. 566, c. 177.]

But, to make this commitment absolutely crystal clear, and to reassure hon. Members who were worried about the role of the Committees in scrutinising the Government’s plans to rejoin the selected measures, we have listened to the points that were raised—I was grateful to the Chairmen of the European Scrutiny Committee and the Home Affairs Select Committee for the conversations that I had with them; the Chairman of the Justice Committee was indeed abroad—and we have tabled a new motion for today’s debate. That new motion explicitly invites the European Scrutiny Committee and the Home Affairs and Justice Committees to submit reports before the end of October, in advance of the Government opening formal discussions with the European Commission and other member states. I therefore hope the new motion will receive wide support from hon. Members across the House.

Abu Qatada

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

This country has been trying to deport Abu Qatada since 2001. The Government acted on the first opportunity that they had to take the action necessary to resume the deportation, and we will resume that deportation when the processes in the European Court have been completed. Our view is very clear: we want to deport Abu Qatada.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

The good folk of Brigg and Goole are not xenophobes for believing that judges in this country should decide who is innocent and who is guilty. The Home Secretary mentioned the Brighton conference in her statement. Can she assure me that she and the Lord Chancellor will listen to the people of Brigg and Goole today and not to the comments of Lord McNally, who, apparently, is a Liberal Democrat and a Minister who described the debate on this matter as “unreasonable”?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend is always assiduous in bringing the views of his constituents to the House, and comments that I have heard from some other Members suggest that their own constituents share those views.

The Brighton conference is considering reform of the European Court, and I think that that is important. I also think it important to remember that it is this Government who took the action that was necessary to bring about reform of the Court, something that was never done by the Labour party.

Metal Theft

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

Metal theft has been a major issue in Derbyshire. Since October alone, more than 800 crimes have been reported. Fortunately, Derbyshire police have taken the issue to their heart. Operation Calanthia has led to 63 arrests and I am delighted to say that people have been arrested for the metal thefts in Smisby and Melbourne.

However, it is not just my beloved Derbyshire that is suffering; the picture is much bigger, as we have already heard. The most interesting question is what we should do with metal dealers who make cash payments and say that they have robust recording arrangements. We really need to discuss what sort of licensing agreements there should be.

We have good metal dealers in South Derbyshire. They run robust premises.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

As a former councillor, my hon. Friend will know that local authorities, which license alcohol and gambling, are perfectly set up to undertake licensing. I commend to her what is going on in north Lincolnshire where the police and the local council have been working together on a voluntary licensing scheme, which has considerably reduced metal theft over the last six months.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

I welcome today’s debate and commend the Members who were responsible for securing it. I want to highlight the scale of the problem in Pendle, where losses from metal theft have risen sharply in recent years. The impact of metal theft, as many Members have said, is not restricted just to the railways, although they are the main victims of the crime. In my area of East Lancashire, in particular, it is having a real and acute effect on smaller businesses.

In Pendle, metal theft has become a major concern of the local council and police. They have both told me that it is now one of their top priorities. The leader of the borough council, Councillor Mike Blomeley, wrote to the Secretary of State in November to describe the problems that we were having in Pendle and call for a ban on cash payments. I am pleased that the Government have announced that that will happen. Councillor Blomeley wants the criminal justice system to focus on the impact of the crimes on individuals and communities, not the value of the metal stolen. I am sure that many other hon. Members would agree that that is the most appropriate approach, particularly given how all our communities have suffered due to metal theft. We have heard from several Members about theft from war memorials and other sites of particular interest.

[Andrew Percy]

While my hon. Friend is discussing war memorials, I want to place on record the fact that last July in Hull, East Yorkshire, we lost a 6-foot bronze statue, a memorial to dead fishermen—trawlermen who lost their lives at sea—given by the people of Vik in Iceland. Does he share my disgust at that and similar thefts?

[Andrew Stephenson]

I share my hon. Friend’s disgust. It is a classic example of some of the disgraceful incidents that have happened.

In Pendle, historic churches such as St Mary’s in Kelbrook have been stripped of lead. Boilers, pipes and outside taps have been ripped from both occupied and unoccupied homes. Some businesses that have been targeted are now struggling to cope, putting many jobs at risk. The head teacher of Barrowford primary school told me just today that it cost more than £60,000 to repair the damage caused by lead theft from the school roof. Another example is the town of Colne, where I live. The theft of metal grate covers from back streets has been so great that the Colne area committee has had to allocate a special budget of £5,000 to replace them.

According to figures made available to me by Lancashire police, there were about 2,228 metal theft crimes in Lancashire in 2010 and about 3,400 last year, representing a 50% year-on-year increase. In the whole of 2006, there were only 508 offences. That is a fivefold increase in five years. Lancashire police think that £7 million is a conservative estimate of the value of metal stolen since 2006 and tell me that currently only 13% of offences are detected. Lancashire constabulary confirms that the rise in offending is consistent with the rise in metal prices, especially copper. Officers who have spoken to me feel hampered in identifying stolen metal and frustrated by the light sentences received by offenders who are caught.

An ongoing police operation, Operation Starling, is addressing metal theft in Lancashire. However, the problem is now so significant that it is having a big effect on local crime statistics. Despite a good record on most fronts, the huge increase in metal thefts in East Lancashire makes it look as though the police force are actually doing badly. That is not the case. They are doing a great job, but they need Government support to tackle metal theft.

I will briefly highlight the case of one of my constituents, a local businessman in Colne who has been the victim of metal theft in the past two years. He estimates the losses to his business in the past 24 months at around £100,000. He has been targeted repeatedly. Everything from lead on the roofs to electric cabling inside properties has been stolen. One gang, spotting a “for sale” sign, hit one of his buildings over a bank holiday weekend, taking so much metal that the building, with 80,000 square feet of commercial space, will now have to be demolished.

My constituent attributes the crimes to the increase in metal prices, which we all know are expected to rise even higher in the coming months. He supports the Government’s ban on cash payments and the other steps that we are taking, and thinks that we should consider other measures. I pass to the Minister his suggestion that the Government consider the old 715 vouchers that we used in construction, where tax was paid up front but receipted so traders could claim it back. He feels that a similar scheme should be introduced for scrap metal dealers. The Minister might wish to consider my constituent’s suggestion along with the others that the Government are considering. I urge the Government to continue doing everything they can to support the police and councils in their efforts to tackle the problem.

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

Although I was not a member of the Committee, I declare an interest as the vice-chair of the all-party leisure group and a former nightclub manager. I spent a number of years in the late-night economy, and I stress that 99.9% of people who go out and enjoy their time in the evenings are good, responsible people out for an office party, leaving do or birthday party. The problems are all about dealing with the small minority.

One reason why I wished to speak was to make a point about transparency. It is in the interests of venues to have a safe environment, and the licensing authority can ensure that. I wish to make a few points about the late-night levy. I have met a number of representatives of venues, and of course nobody likes paying extra money, but it is very much in their interests that the money from the levy is used to create a safe environment. I should like the venues to have a greater opportunity to help to shape how the money is spent. My understanding is that local authorities will receive 30% of it and 70% will go to the police. The venues, which pay that money, should help to shape that decision. Ultimately, the final decision should be for the police or the local authority, because they are the ones who are accountable, but the venue owners see the situation at first hand.

In the areas where I worked, I saw that when people were enjoying themselves, they were generally well behaved, but when they wanted to go home, they found themselves unable to do so. I would therefore have suggested that the money from the levy be spent on a taxi rank co-ordinator in my area, so that people could get home swiftly and efficiently. In other areas, the venues might suggest that there should be better lighting, because generally, where there is good visible access there is a lot less trouble than in areas with only a handful of people around, which are not so well policed. My plea is that the Government ensure that there is transparency, and that venues that contribute to the late-night levy have a say.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I come at the matter from a different viewpoint from my hon. Friend’s, because I used to be the chairman of the licensing authority in the city of Hull. Transparency is important on the late-night levy, and on fees in general, but do we not have to ensure that we get the split right, too? When I was the licensing chairman, many of the solutions to problems in the late-night economy came from the council rather than from the police. We should therefore keep the percentage split under review at all times.

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is a valid point, and my hon. Friend speaks with first-hand experience and authority. The layout of the night-time economy is different in every town, which means that each town creates unique challenges that either the local authority or the local police must challenge. That is why I keep coming back to the need to ensure that venues feed into the system. The people who run them will know where the minority of people are generating problems.

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[Dr Huppert]

It is hard to argue that alcohol disorder zones were effective, given that nobody used them, so I hope that the hon. Gentleman was not trying to make that case. I am not calling for an early review, because we have to give things a certain amount of time. I would not necessarily have said, for example, that getting rid of alcohol disorder zones at the beginning of 2007 would have been the right thing to do either. It takes time to realise that something simply has not worked. I am not calling for an early review, but I am sure that the Minister will comment on my suggestion of using ward boundaries. We did not discuss it in detail in Committee, either here or in the other place, but it might provide a way of making the scheme a bit easier for councils to use, because we want to ensure that what the Minister intends is, in fact, what we see in the end.

[Andrew Percy]

I had not intended to speak in this debate, but it is about an issue in which I am quite interested, given my former role as chairman of the licensing authority in Hull, one of the two councils in East Yorkshire. My coalition colleague, the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), stole some of my thunder, proving that on this issue we are a happy coalition.

I chaired the licensing authority in Hull for a number of years, at the time when powers were transferred to us from the justices, so I was involved in writing the city’s licensing policy. It was clear from the beginning that the powers that we had been given were insufficient. In some ways, I understood why the Government had come up with a solution, given the national outcry at the time and the problems that we had all read about. However, when I sat down with our council officers and said, “Alcohol disorder zones—what’s your advice?”, they said, “We’re not going to go anywhere near them, and we doubt anyone else will.” It would have taken some time for alcohol disorder zones to become effective, but it was clear from the beginning that they were incredibly bureaucratic and would not be introduced in any part of England. Indeed, we have had similar problems with cumulative impact zones, which the local authority in Hull has twice rejected, and on very much the same grounds—the unfairness that could be meted out to premises with no problems at all, but which could none the less be drawn into such zones.

I take the point made by the shadow Minister—my near neighbour, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson)—about the late-night levy. In many ways, I understand the Government’s intentions. Indeed, when I was a licensing chairman, all we wanted was a little more power—as all councillors and politicians always do—to do something about the premises with which we knew we had repeated problems. At the time, we could not always rely on the police to make review applications, and we could do little with the review applications that we received from residents, because the weight of evidence that they put was insufficient, so we do need something.

I have concerns, however, particularly—as the shadow Minister said—in areas such as the East Riding of Yorkshire, or in the other part of my constituency, in north Lincolnshire. A late-night levy could draw in the Percy Arms—the pub four doors from my house, in a small, quiet, East Riding village—at the same time as nightclubs in Bridlington and Withernsea, which seems a little unfair.

Indeed, that would be unfair in a city as well. In Hull, as well as in Scunthorpe and other towns in our area, the problems are generally in the town or city centre, yet pubs in the suburbs or outside the city could also be drawn into the levy. I therefore support the suggestion made by Members in all parts of the House, including by my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge, that we should think carefully about how to apply the levy. I understand the Government’s intention, and I agree with the early-hours orders, which could be particularly effective. However, we need to ensure flexibility in the system. In my time as a licensing chairman, we wanted a bit more power to do something against certain premises. However, as with all legislation, we need to ensure that we do not draw in premises that are innocent of any trouble. Like the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe), I would urge the Government to give an assurance that the provisions will be reviewed at some time in the future.

[Justin Tomlinson]

Obviously I have already covered some of this issue with my earlier comments on the late-night levy, but the buzz word that is coming across is greater flexibility. A number of Members have highlighted possible solutions to the problems of setting boundaries, but I think that the only way to set a boundary is to be venue-specific. Venues that conduct themselves in the right manner need an incentive. It has been suggested that venues in the East Riding with no history of problems, which do everything by the rule book and are nowhere near the problem areas, could be caught by the provisions. If we adopted more specific boundaries, we might have a ward boundary between two different establishments, with the well-behaved one on the wrong side of the boundary.

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[James Brokenshire]

Strangely enough, this Government do not believe in central targets. The hon. Lady tempts me down that path, but I have to say that I have no specific target. I refer her to the regulatory impact assessment, which she will have read assiduously, as it sets out the level of fees forecast. The regulatory impact assessment sought to examine possible options and estimate what might be recovered by the late-night levy. Rather than count up the number of local authorities, however, I point her to that assessment. We hope it will be successful.

[Andrew Percy]

The Minister is generous with his time and in being willing to take some of our points into account. I welcome the suggestion that we might be able to find a way, by means of regulation, of excluding village pubs such as the ones in my area. The problem with the alcohol disorder zones was not necessarily the setting of the boundaries, but the paperwork and bureaucracy that went with them. I commend to the Minister one area of law that seems to have worked very well—the designated alcohol zones. These are no-drinking zones, which have a set boundary and were quite easy to set up in comparison with ADZs. Having boundaries or setting boundaries around problem areas is not necessarily that complicated if we ensure that the process is simplified.

[James Brokenshire]

There might be a distinction to be drawn between seeking to calculate costs and charges as with the ADZs, and local byelaws drawn up by some local authorities. As I have already said, the early morning alcohol restriction orders are relevant, along with cumulative impact zones. They show that there are ways of seeking to control the behaviour of individuals within a particular area. Calculating costs and levying charges and fees for licences appropriately has to be done in a broader way to make it effective so that we do not get drawn down into the bureaucratic mechanism that we are seeking to put to bed in respect of the alcohol disorder zone.

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

I would like to focus on part 1 of the Bill—on the proposals for directly elected police and crime commissioners. The proposals throw up a wide range of issues and will fundamentally undermine the foundations of policing, ending years of police independence from politicians. There is a great deal in the Bill to which I object, but I want to focus on two particular concerns. First, the implementation of elected police and crime commissioners is an expensive process, coming at a time when our police forces are facing deep and serious cuts. Secondly, the Bill concentrates a great deal of power into the hands of one person—the elected commissioner—and will, in my view, lead to our sacrificing the police’s political independence, which has existed successfully for more than 170 years.

The reforms come at a crucial time for the police—a time when they have to absorb the impact of cuts to both the Home Office and local government funding and when, despite the Tory rhetoric, the Ministry of Justice is undertaking a massively underfunded shake-up of the criminal justice system. For those with an interest in crime and justice, these are indeed worrying times. It happens to be a fact that under the last Labour Government, crime fell by 43%, while the chance of being a victim of crime fell to a 30-year low. There can be no doubt that that great achievement was underpinned by record police numbers. That progress is now being put at risk by reckless cuts.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Karl Turner]

I am always happy to give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Andrew Percy]

The hon. Gentleman talks about police numbers. Will he remind us what happened to police numbers in Humberside in the last year of the Labour Government? If he cannot remember, I will remind him that we saw a fall of 130 in the number of officers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karl Turner]

Not at the moment. I would like to make some progress.

Any change to police force operations must ensure that that independence remains. The Government’s proposals will not maintain that crucial division. Although they have stated at every turn that forces will retain their operational independence, I do not feel that their proposals can even remotely achieve that. The political interference begins from the very start of the process, with the selection of candidates. Even if election expenses are capped, prospective candidates will have to invest money and raise their profiles across the force area, as well as picking up issues that will help with their campaigning.

[Andrew Percy]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way again?

[Karl Turner]

Not at the moment.

The Government’s proposals inevitably restrict the range of candidates to either those who are sufficiently rich or those with party political backing. [Interruption.] Hon. Members are making comments from a sedentary position, but that happens to be a fact. The process of electing police and crime commissioners will be fraught with difficulty. It is not beyond the imagination of any Member of this House to see that the sensitive parameters of the commissioner’s role and the importance of operational independence may be compromised, as candidates seek popular support on local law and order issues. Besides that, I feel that we are in danger of unrealistically raising the expectations of local communities about what a commissioner can truly achieve. That will serve only to undermine trust in police forces further.

Once the polling has drawn to a close and the commissioner is in place, there is great potential for further problems to arise. There is an increasing risk that someone who has been elected will be reluctant to make an unpopular decision, regardless of its necessity. A prime example would be on the visibility of police officers, which is a particular concern to me. In my view, an elected commissioner would prioritise highly visible policing, such as policing to tackle antisocial behaviour, while less visible policing, such as policing to tackle organised crime, high-value electronic fraud and paedophile rings, would be left to one side. An elected commissioner would be faced with a stark choice: do they do what is in the best interests of getting re-elected, or do they do what is in the best interests of community safety? The Government’s proposals mean that policing decisions will be made in people’s narrow electoral interest, and not in the wider national interest. That is a concern supported by Sir Paul Stephenson, who stated that

“we must ensure that this does not become just talking about popular visibility issues”.

The powers conferred on the commissioners, such as drawing up the police and crime plan, the firing of chief constables and the control of the budget, will give them a broad amount of control over operational matters. They will get to decide that visible crime such as antisocial behaviour is prioritised over invisible crime such as the criminality I discussed a few minutes ago.

Bearing in mind the commissioners’ wide-ranging powers and the party political nature of their election, I also have grave concern about the hijacking of these positions by extremists. Having one person in control of such a vast power, particularly in regard to law enforcement, will naturally attract those from the far right. To dismiss these concerns as “scaremongering” is both short-sighted and inappropriate. Twenty years ago, no one would have imagined the British National party sitting in the European Parliament. Despite not winning a parliamentary seat in this place at the last general election, its overall share of the vote increased.

This Bill poses an important question for the future of this country’s policing. We are faced with the choice of abandoning political independence and objective decision making for politicised choices made in the electoral interest. At stake in this Bill is the integrity of our police forces. Chief constables, such as the one in my area, are expressing concern about being forced to make cuts that will impact on front-line services. The Government must decide what they value most: is it to be the ill-thought-out, dangerous and costly policy or will they fund the police properly and ensure that front-line services are not affected?

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Maynard]

I agree entirely. The importance of the night-time economy is much misunderstood. It is not just about vertical drinking establishments, how many stags and hens we can cram into the town centre or about how much alcohol can be consumed. A town such as Blackpool has a much wider range of things to offer. We have an excellent theatre in the Grand theatre.

[Andrew Percy]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the implementation of the late-night levy will be incredibly effective in helping to address some of these problems? A 50:50 split between the police and the local authorities would mean that that local authorities, on a business improvement district-type model, could work with the local licensees to address the priorities. Most licensees are decent people who try to do a good job. Does he not agree that a 50:50 split would perhaps be better?

[Paul Maynard]

That is certainly an interesting point, and I hope that it will be explored more thoroughly in Committee. Many of the elderly people who would otherwise be keen to go to the Grand theatre for an evening’s show do not do so because they do not want to have to form crocodiles for safety, weaving their way through the town centre to find a local taxi rank because they are scared.

Immigration

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Skidmore]

Absolutely. The lesson that all three parties learned from the general election was that the issue needed to be debated. Happily, it was debated at the end of the general election, although it should have been brought forward sooner. It is clear to me that it is only right and responsible for us to act now to protect our public services and local infrastructure. It is clear that we can no longer go on as we were, with a policy of uncontrolled immigration and net migration reaching almost 200,000.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is entirely right that we need to look at limiting immigration. In my constituency, particularly in Goole, the biggest influx has come from eastern Europe. Does he agree that the failure of the previous Government to limit EU immigration, as they could and should have done, has helped to fuel national concerns about immigration?

[Chris Skidmore]

I certainly recognise that, back in 2004, the previous Government failed to address the problem of transitional controls when negotiating with the EU. If the EU is to expand, the current Government will ensure that those controls are put in place, as is absolutely necessary.

I certainly welcome the current plans to halve the net migration figure—currently 200,000—by 2015 and also the cap on annual non-EU immigration. We can have a debate today on what the figure for the cap should be, but I believe that it must be in the tens of thousands, drastically lower than the hundreds of thousands that we were witnessing until recently.

Above all, as a Government and a Parliament, we must send out a clear message. My constituents in Kingswood want a Government who are finally in control of their immigration policy—a Government who are policing their borders and standing up for the British people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Skidmore]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point, which the right hon. Member for Birkenhead made very effectively. We are not here to criticise what happened decades before. There are many people who have arrived in this country, paid their taxes and who are British citizens. We are also standing up for and defending their rights when we debate how to control immigration.

It is not bigoted to be genuinely concerned about the future of our nation and its future generation—those young people who are in desperate need of jobs and employment. The hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) raised the issue of business. We need to listen to the voice of business if we are to succeed in bringing about an economic recovery, especially those in international industries who choose Britain as their base. That is why, when a cap is placed on immigration next year, we must be sure that those who are allowed into this country are only those whom this country needs and who have expertise from which we will benefit.

[Andrew Percy]

Does my hon. Friend agree that through our membership of the European Union we are now in the strange position whereby we are putting limits on people coming here from nations such as Canada and Australia, where the skills base is the same and the qualifications are equally recognised, but we are completely unable to control immigration from countries across eastern Europe, where there are different cultures, skills bases and qualifications?

[Chris Skidmore]

We have certainly been left with a legacy, and we have to play the cards that we have been dealt. I might like things to have been different, if that were possible. However, we must accept that the European Union covers 47% of our trade and is therefore a major player that we have to deal with, and we need to operate within that framework in terms of border controls.