British Sign Language Bill

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Friday 28th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rosie Cooper]

I thank my hon. Friend for those remarks. It is true that we have made progress. The deaf part of me is standing here thinking that deaf people are saying, “Very good—let’s not wait 19 years more.” We need to make some rapid progress.

In bringing forward the Bill, I want to finally recognise BSL in statute—not just a gesture but a law that requires positive action from the Government, with real progress to put deaf people on an equal footing with those of us who hear. For every deaf person, like my parents, who has been ignored, misunderstood, or even treated as unintelligent simply for relying on BSL, this recognition will be clear and a message that their language is equal and should be treated as equal.

When I was pre-school and at home, we used to have lessons every day. I could not say exactly when they started, but probably when I was about two. We would learn numbers, sums and English and to read a bit. I remember saying to my mum and dad, “Other children don’t have to do this. It’s not fair.” I can well remember their reply, which was repeated right through my growing up: “You have to. Because we’re deaf, they’ll think you’re daft.” Only as an adult can I appreciate how much that said about how they—intelligent people—had been treated just because their ears did not work.

Throughout this campaign, and from my own life experiences, I have seen the shocking inequality in access that deaf people have to public services. The reason I got involved in local politics is that I was at school and my father wanted to complain to the local councillor. Guess who did the complaining? It was me. That inequality in access goes across all aspects of life: healthcare, social care, education, jobs and benefits, to name but a few. The Royal National Institute for Deaf People estimates that 151,000 people in the UK use British Sign Language and, of those, at least 87,000 are deaf. A huge number of people rely on BSL, yet we constantly let them down and fail to see the challenges they face.

This Bill requires the Secretary of State to produce guidance, which will be issued across Government, about how they should be promoting, facilitating and protecting the use of BSL in their Departments. I am sure the Minister will set out in her speech how the Government intend to ensure the guidance will reflect the needs of the deaf community.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I commend my hon. Friend on bringing forward this legislation to the House of Commons. It is long overdue and builds on the work that she mentioned earlier. The fact is that there are 90,000 primary users of British Sign Language in the United Kingdom today, and probably another 60,000 on top of that who use it as a means of communication as well. This is not a minority thing; this Bill is a social justice measure for those for whom BSL is the primary form of communication. I congratulate my hon. Friend, because it is long overdue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

I am here to support the Bill, but I am also here to support my friend. My hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) and I came into Parliament together in 2005. She has been open and generous in talking to us about her life and her life experiences—sometimes funny, often sad—and I know that her mum and dad will be so massively proud. God is indeed good. I know how personal the Bill is to her, and I was surprised that she managed to get through the entire speech without having us all in tears. I am really grateful to the Minister for enabling the Bill to come to the House today, and with such a good wind.

I will not speak for long because I have seen the number of hon. Members who are present, and I am always worried that just a little bit too much enthusiasm for a Bill can cause it not to succeed. As a former Whip, I have used those tricks in the past, but I am sure that the Whips Office will be as good as gold today.

I think we in the UK should be very proud that our sign language has developed in the way it has over hundreds of years, through constant use and refinement by the deaf community. It is only right that British Sign Language be legally recognised, so that its tens of thousands of regular users are afforded the legal protections and equal respect that they are absolutely due. It is important that we all remember that for many people across this country, English is their second language and is used for writing and lipreading, while British Sign Language is their first language and primary language.

When public services and others do not recognise those facts and do not work together effectively to ensure that their communications and services are equally accessible to British Sign Language users, that is a major form of discrimination.

[Andrew Gwynne]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case in support of this excellent Bill. Our hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) gave her really personal experience of how, as a very young child, she had to communicate with adults and the adult world on behalf of her parents. That is a social justice issue for her parents and people like them, who have no other form of communication if British Sign Language is not provided by public services. The Bill recognises British Sign Language as an official language. Does that not push this agenda forward to ensure that public services serve all the public?

[Ms Brown]

I absolutely agree. The story about a child of a parent—we are all children of our parents—having to tell the parent about a terminal diagnosis when they are obviously coming to terms with it themselves, having heard it for the first time, is just so devastating. I genuinely do not think I would have been able to sit with my mum or dad and explain what a doctor had said, and tell them that their life was about to close. I just do not think I could have done it. To think that that is something that those in the deaf community have to experience often is tragic. It is unfair and it is discriminatory.

Discrimination in all its forms has to be tackled, because it harms us all. What my hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire talked about most eloquently was the fact that there is so much talent in the deaf community that is simply not allowed to be unlocked.

Underpayment of Benefits: Compensation

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Thursday 13th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[David Rutley]

Yes. We are a very large operational Department that takes care of the needs of millions of people. It is disappointing to me when we make errors. I work as hard as I can day in, day out to ensure we do not make errors. Sometimes we do and they are genuine and then we need to rectify them speedily. Sometimes they are fraudulent situations, and when we have a figure of £8.4 billion for fraud, partly because of the increase in welfare payments around coronavirus, we have to go through procedures, because some people, sadly and disappointingly, are trying to rip off the taxpayer and take money away from people who deserve it. There is a difficult balance. I understand the point that the right hon. Lady makes and I can assure her I am working hard on those points.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is not the first time that there has been a finding of maladministration at the DWP; there was a similar judgment on the pensions of 1950s-born women. That does prompt questions about the DWP’s competence.

On this specific issue, I was going to ask the Minister how many people in the Denton and Reddish constituency are affected, but he does not have that data, which I find astounding, quite frankly. That is basic data that Members of Parliament need. Why is the onus on individuals to come forward to the DWP? Why is he not being proactive in going out to the individuals who are affected? That seems like common sense to me.

[David Rutley]

We were very active in engaging in with the 118,000 people to make sure that their arrears were paid. As I said, if people still believe that arrears are owed or that they should receive further compensation, they can get in touch with the available helplines. We will, as I said, consider and review the report, which we received—as it was published—only today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chloe Smith]

I certainly will. The Government remain absolutely committed to that. There is more to do but progress has been made since 2017. The number of disabled people in employment has increased by 850,000, and the disability employment gap has closed by about five percentage points since 2013.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I suppose, looking at it favourably, at least the long-promised strategy is now published, but the failure to co-produce the strategy with disabled people or disabled people’s organisations is unfortunate. What does the Minister say to people with disabilities and their organisations who have been left disappointed at what they call a “tokenistic” strategy?

[Chloe Smith]

The exercise leading up to the publication of that strategy was one of the biggest listening exercises ever undertaken with disabled people by Government. I am proud of it and proud of the result that has been published. It is my personal priority to implement it and to continue listening to disabled people and disabled people’s organisations. Indeed, there is a commitment, and several others through the strategy, to do more of precisely that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on championing the announcement of the reduction of the taper rate from 63% to 55%. He may be aware that that was the original design of the universal credit system. The Chancellor agreed with me and the Prime Minister that, in trying to ensure that work pays, it was the right moment to do it. It recognises the labour market opportunities and makes sure that people are better off working. With my right hon. Friend the Chancellor having already provided for costs of about £2.5 billion annually, I am not convinced that we will seek to change the taper rate further; instead, we will be seeking to ensure that all the current job vacancies are taken up so that work really does pay.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

In answering an earlier question about 1950s women, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), referred to the High Court but not the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s report. Given that the report explicitly urged the Government not to drag their feet and to proactively co-operate with the next stages of the investigation, will he assure me that he will break the habit of a lifetime and do just that?

[Guy Opperman]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have forgotten that the PHSO was set up under a Labour Government. It has a three-stage process. We are observing the process that his Blair-Brown Government, which he obviously now disowns, set up and insisted that we take.

Pensions Update

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

Before I answer my hon. Friend’s question, I need to correct part of my last answer: the earnings link is not in the Pensions Act, but in the Social Security Administration Act 1992, so apologies for that.

My hon. Friend is right. I am conscious that we want to help our pensioners at this difficult time. I have already referred to some of the benefits that may be available for people to take up where there is a pension already. We have done a significant campaign in the past year to improve take-up of pension credit and we will continue to signpost people accordingly to take advantage of the benefits that are available to some of our poorest pensioners.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

There is no glossing over this announcement. The suspension of the triple lock will come as a blow to many pensioners in Denton and Reddish—it is a broken promise from this Government.

I know that the prime reason for this statement was the uprating announcement, but it was badged as a pensions update. May I express my dismay that the Secretary of State has not taken the opportunity to respond to the ombudsman’s finding of maladministration in respect of the 1950s-born women’s pensions issue? When will she comment on that?

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Gentleman may not be aware of how the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman works in this inquiry specifically. The inquiry is happening in a staged process; we are not expected to give a response, because the process is not yet over. Unusually, the ombudsman has chosen to publish part of the judgment thus far, and there are further stages to come. The hon. Gentleman might want to read carefully the statement that was made, because he should be aware that the period of maladministration is linked to the years between 2005 and 2007, when the Labour Government were in power.

Universal Credit and Working Tax Credit

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) for the way he set out the case from the Front Bench. The facts speak for themselves. In my constituency, 9,147 of the lowest paid people across Audenshaw, Denton, Dukinfield, Reddish and the Heatons will be affected—people who are struggling and many who are relying on this money to get them through the current crisis.

The Trussell Trust has said that cutting universal credit could increase already high food bank use by another 10%. I will let that figure sink in. Universal credit is an in-work benefit, too, replacing the previous working and child tax credits. In that context, it is unthinkable to take £20 a week or £1,000 a year away from families. The Resolution Foundation states that the cut would see the poorest households lose 7% of disposable income. The Child Poverty Action Group states that the £20 uplift is essential

“to ensure low-income families with children receive the support they need”.

Last September, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation said that the cut risked bringing 700,000 more people, including 300,000 more children, into poverty. These are staggering and, frankly, frightening figures that should shame us all. We are better than this. We must urge the Chancellor to stop the cut and support those in need.

I know this motion has been brought to the House by the Labour Opposition, and politics dictates that we should take partisan lines—I get that those are the rules of the game, having been an MP for almost 16 years; I have seen it time and again—but this is not a game; it is millions of people’s lives. It is our children’s future, and sometimes we need to unite across the political divide to make a stand and do the right thing.

This political spin that abstaining deprives Labour of the opportunity to incite “hatred and bullying” towards Conservative MPs is just ratcheting up that game-playing. The only anger will be because this is not a game for 6 million families; it is real life, and the best way to remove that anger is to do the right thing and vote for the motion to stop the cut. All Members know the cut is wrong. Six million families are depending on us. I know I have represented the 9,147 who will be affected by this cut in Denton and Reddish. I oppose this cut, and I will vote against it if there is a vote tonight.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

What steps her Department is taking to encourage employers to participate in the kickstart scheme.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

What steps her Department is taking to encourage employers to participate in the Kickstart scheme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

We are working with employers at a local, national and regional level, and we continue to have wide-ranging engagement to promote the scheme. Department for Work and Pensions officials are supporting applications through existing and growing partnerships. From day one, we have engaged with more than 300 stakeholders to ensure that the design of the kickstart scheme delivers for our young people and employers alike. We continue to work with those in growing sectors to boost further opportunities, so far creating more than 4,000 applications and more than 20,000 approved kickstart roles—these numbers are growing daily.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. It is very important that kickstart works with all the opportunities that are available for young people, and my Department is working across Government to achieve that. The Haringey youth team is made up of 10 work coaches focused on 18 to 24-year-olds and, absolutely, they are already working directly on this in her Wood Green jobcentre, and I encourage her to go to see it if she has not already done so.

[Andrew Gwynne [V]]

Partnership will be crucial to drive down youth unemployment. I know that areas such as Greater Manchester are keen to understand how kickstart performs locally to assist in making the initiative a success. Can the Minister give clarity as to whether all the information relating to kickstart participation, which now comes in terms of gateway organisations, number of job placements applied for, sector information and so on, will be shared with mayoral combined authorities such as the Greater Manchester Combined Authority so that they are able to identify gaps that may then require more local partnership intervention?

[Mims Davies]

I am meeting with the M9 Group of Mayors once again and they have been absolutely crucial in terms of local design, local mayors, local enterprise partnerships, and our local chambers of commerce. The scheme has been designed with local authorities and local labour markets in mind. The hon. Member will be pleased to know that we are working closely with Stockport local authority, particularly with its job match service around kickstart.

Supporting Disadvantaged Families

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the purpose of the holiday activities fund. I do not want to call it a summer school because it is not, and we certainly do not want to put children off from attending because they have the idea that that is what it is. It is this element of enriching activities that keeps children involved. When they are away from school for longer than a week, we start to see them dropping away potentially, so it is really important that we have that engaging element where they can have fun and enjoy themselves. Certainly, it is my understanding from my hon. Friends at the Department for Education that the programme will help, and it is helping, children improve their educational attainment, which is so important for their future lives.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]]

I welcome the package of support for tackling child hunger over Christmas. As a Manchester City fan, let me pay tribute to that United hero, because without him, I do not believe that this Government would have done anything here, so thank you Marcus Rashford. Child poverty is serious. It is not just about free school meals; it is also about the proposed cut to universal credit in April and the inadequacy of the local housing allowance that is pushing too many children and families into poverty at this time. Rather than U-turning again next spring, which is probably inevitable, why will the Secretary of State not do the right thing now?

[Dr Coffey]

I am conscious that we did boost the local housing allowance to the 30th percentile, which cost more than £1 billion, and I am sure that that may have helped some of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. One thing we must recognise—we are working across Government on this—is what we can do to try to help reduce the cost of living. An interesting paper by the University of Bristol talks about the poverty premium, half of which is energy related—about £250 out of the £490 it identified. That is why I am working with people such as the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), the Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth, my right hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) and a wide range of people in this Government to tackle issues that face not only the poorest in society, but other households as well. We will continue to do that and I look forward to ongoing activity in and out of Government in order to ensure that we reach as many people as possible and make their lives better.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mims Davies]

Supporting our young people is a priority for me in this job. Apprenticeships are a great way for young people to start their careers, giving them that crucial opportunity to earn while they learn. Alongside the Department for Education, we at the DWP are supporting employers, especially small businesses, to take on new apprentices this year, and we will provide further detail in due course. We will also ensure that there is sufficient funding this year to support small businesses wanting to take this up.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

What support her Department provides for people required to self-isolate as a result of exposure to covid-19 who are not eligible for statutory sick pay.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Justin Tomlinson)]

We have made changes so that statutory sick pay and employment and support allowance are payable to people who are self-isolating, including those who are shielding and who satisfy the conditions of entitlement. We have removed the waiting days, so these are paid from day one, and households may also be able to claim universal credit.

[Andrew Gwynne [V]]

But the lowest-paid in this country and about 3 million self-employed and others are excluded from what is already one of the lowest rates of statutory sick pay in Europe. As test and trace is stepped up, many of those will be told to self-isolate, potentially multiple times, so how does the Minister propose that we can emerge safely from lockdown if people are not supported in these circumstances? What is he going to do about this group?

[Justin Tomlinson]

In addition to providing support through statutory sick pay, we are expecting employers to do the right thing, and we will be working with employers to make sure employees can transition back to work safely. That is underpinned by the Equality Act 2010, and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Health and Safety Executive will continue to provide proactive guidance to employers.

Supported Housing: Benefit

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Grahame M. Morris]

Indeed, that is the case. The groups I originally listed are some of the most vulnerable in society—they are people who should be protected and who require supported housing. If the Government proceed on their intended course, some of the most disadvantaged and vulnerable people will be further disadvantaged, and the cost to the taxpayer and the Exchequer will be greater.

The Government’s proposal does not make financial sense, and it leaves the providers of supported housing in an invidious position. I know that housing providers—I have met many of them—breathed a collective sigh of relief when the decision to cap support was delayed pending a review, but they are still left in a very precarious position, with the sword of Damocles hanging over the services they provide.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne pointed out in a debate in the House on 27 January, unless the Government reverse this pernicious proposal, 156,000 units of supported and sheltered housing may have to close.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have received a letter from the New Charter housing group, which operates social housing in the Tameside part of my constituency. New Charter hits the nail on the head when it says that, as a result of this proposal, it

“will not have the income to sustain the provision of supported housing”

and

“will inevitably see the closure of some schemes.”

It adds:

“Many of these supported and sheltered schemes”

in Tameside will

“become financially unviable”.

Is that not exactly what will happen up and down the country if these cuts continue?

[Grahame M. Morris]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point in a very concise way. [Interruption.] A member of the Government is saying from a sedentary position, “They don’t know,” but the situation is absolutely clear. The point I am trying to make is that housing providers need certainty over their income streams before they can plan for new provision—that is a reasonable point, which I am sure is not beyond the understanding of Ministers with a financial background.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jess Phillips]

As we enter the summer recess, I would love a little trip to Cornwall. I hasten to add that police forces across the country are doing really quite good work, as are police and crime commissioners, but I am afraid to say that I have never seen an example of their funding supported accommodation.

It would be dishonest now for Ministers to undermine their own work—Ministers of this Government signed it off when they allocated the money; they are all happy to stand up and sing its praises—because every single plan had housing benefit within it.

It is complicated and difficult for people to understand what running a refuge actually looks like. The grants the Government give are what we use to pay for staff. They are used to pay for family support workers, who enable a child to re-engage with a mother who has lost all control over her children because a perpetrator has taken it from her. They allow key staff to give counselling and support to women who have been brutally raped, beaten, kept locked away and controlled to a degree that no one in this Chamber could ever imagine. That is what the grants from the Government pay for. What pays for the nuts and bolts, the beds, the buildings, the places where people live, their homes and their security is housing benefit.

[Andrew Gwynne]

My hon. Friend is making a compelling case. May I take her back to the letter I received from New Charter housing that I referred to in an intervention on our Front-Bench spokesman? It says to me:

“It is probable that the result of this reduction will be either; additional cost to the public purse where there individuals take up, for example, valuable and costly hospital space; or these individuals find themselves living in totally inappropriate accommodation that does not support their needs and puts them at high risk.”

Is that not exactly the case we are making today?

[Jess Phillips]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and that is exactly the case. As has been outlined, the reduction will result in people being left in the accommodation of unscrupulous housing providers where we do not want people to end up, and I am sure every single Member knows about these providers.

Housing benefit currently pays for things such as CCTV, security support and all the extra stuff that we perhaps take for granted because we do not have it in our homes— but then we have not been repeatedly raped for the past six months of our life. That is what housing benefit pays for. I cannot say this with any more dramatic effect: half of the bed spaces in the refuges where I worked would not be there without housing benefit. Already, 115 women and their children are turned away from refuges every single day in this country. Already this year, 50 women are dead.

There are also very real concerns about the mooted housing benefit changes for those aged 18 to 21. Perhaps the Minister could update the House on that, and the bearing it will have on a place like Birmingham, where 25% of the women living in refuges last year came from this age group. Ministers will be shutting off the route to safety for these women if the changes in housing benefit come in, and I am at a loss as to what is going on—whether that is part of this review or was just something floated around.

If the DWP does not want to play its part and the Treasury values its bottom line so much, the Government must look at a different approach to funding refuges and other supported accommodation. This review is not about sustainability; it is about cutting costs.

The decimation of local authority Supporting People budgets has already led to the closure of more than 30 refuges in the UK. I am not just shouting or shroud-waving or scaremongering against cuts; I am willing to engage with Ministers across Government to talk about other sustainability models for refuges. I have just a few suggestions for today. We could ring-fence national budgets, and make providing accommodation for victims a local authority statutory duty. At the moment local authorities have that duty only for adult services, children’s services and bins. I think providing a safe place for children who have been raped to live is more important than the bins.

The model of commissioning that the Home Office has used for accommodating victims of modern slavery completely eliminates the need for housing benefit, and I have set up refuges for victims of trafficking with this model. No housing benefit changes hands. We could only do that because this Government—the Government in front of me—recognise the importance of a national funding framework.

I am happy to work with the Government on any of those solutions, but to pull the rug from underneath refuges, homeless hostels and older people’s care services without first putting in place a system that will work and is sustainable and offers a future for these victims is both stupid and cruel.

So let me go back to the words of the Prime Minister. She said that “awareness of” and “response to” violence against women and girls was “everyone’s business”. Will the Minister promise to make it hers?