Oral Answers to Questions

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I recommend that the hon. Lady say that this Government are fully committed to a major investment programme for our railways, much of which will benefit her constituents, including electrification, the intercity express programme, the provision of new rolling stock in the future, and improving the overall reliability of the line for her constituents, with the bottleneck at Reading station being dealt with. We are taking the concerns of the hon. Lady’s constituents very seriously. We recognise the anxiety about rail fares, but we are determined to get the costs of the railways down so that we can give better value for money to passengers and taxpayers.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the latest assessment of the High Speed 2 consultation that closed in July? Will she also reassure my constituents, all of whom are rail passengers, that every single one of their views will be taken into account?

[Mrs Villiers]

The Government take the process for designing the future of high-speed rail very seriously. All representations made to the consultation will be carefully considered and an announcement will be made later this year.

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[Lynne Featherstone]

We are working with all the police agencies and the Association of Chief Police Officers to focus on those issues, including stalking and harassment. Tackling stalking, for example, is a key priority for the Home Secretary. We have committed long-term funding to the national stalking helpline over the spending review period and we have set up a national stalking strategy group to ensure that actions on stalking are taken under the violence against women and girls action plan. That is an example of one area of work that is targeted.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

5. What her policy is on permitting civil partnership ceremonies in religious premises.

[The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone)]

Earlier this year, I announced our intention to implement section 202 of the Equality Act 2010 to remove the ban in England and Wales on civil partnerships being registered on religious premises. It is a voluntary measure for faith groups that want to allow that to happen. It is an important step forward for lesbian, gay and bisexual rights, and for religious freedom. We are considering the responses to the public consultation and working to bring the regulations into force by the end of this year.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Of course it is reasonable for religious premises that wish to hold civil partnerships to be able to do so. However, does the Minister agree that it is entirely inappropriate for the Government to get involved in any decision about civil partnerships being held in a particular religious venue?

[Lynne Featherstone]

I reassure my hon. Friend that I totally agree with her sentiment. The Government have made the decision to enable premises that want to host civil partnership registrations to do so. This is about religious freedom. I am absolutely clear that it is not for the Government to force any religious organisation to host civil partnership registrations if they do not wish to do so.

High-speed Rail

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman was not listening; I was providing evidence that investment in the west coast main line has benefited the peripheries. Joining up periphery areas with main lines and having faster trains will get people and trade to those areas. I thought that the Government were in favour of that; I have supported them in that and in the idea of spreading wealth and prosperity throughout the United Kingdom. The idea is not new—it happened in Victorian times, which is why I gave the example of the Irish mail. The Victorians recognised the importance of Dublin. This Government have bailed out the Irish Government because they understand the importance of trade links with Ireland. It is important to have full integration between all parts of the United Kingdom and our near neighbours.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree, as he seems to suggest, that there is not enough evidence to prove the benefits of regeneration outside the areas at the two ends of the proposed initial line, and that far more work needs to be done to provide evidence of those benefits? If the issue is about curing the north-south divide, the case is simply not proven.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Lady is coming at the matter from the wrong angle. I am saying that the huge investment over the past 10 years has brought benefits to periphery areas but that the data have not been put into one package to make the case.

[Andrea Leadsom]

rose—

[Albert Owen]

I am not going to give way again, because of the time restraint. We need to look thoroughly at the benefits to the whole United Kingdom, but there is no doubt that connecting periphery areas with main line stations works. We have seen that in Europe and in other areas.

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[Andrea Leadsom]

rose—

[Albert Owen]

I am not going to give way again. I appreciate that the hon. Lady has her opinion, but I am trying to make my views heard. I hope that she and the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) have understood my argument. I will move on, but I believe that the Minister should press the Secretary of State for Wales and the Wales Office to make a proper analysis of the benefits of high-speed rail for Wales.

My second point is more negative, because we should also look at the disadvantages of the scheme. Will the Minister look at the issue in the context of Euston station, where the redevelopment for the high-speed rail link would take place? I know that the Transport Committee heard evidence about that yesterday, but the case for high-speed rail would be slightly undermined if there were to be a long period of redevelopment at Euston. As was said yesterday, it would take up to eight years to redevelop that station, and services to the north-west and north Wales would be cut during that period. I know that the Minister will look at all the options, but perhaps she could look at undergrounding or some other way to alleviate the problem with main line stations such as Euston in the future. I know that the Minister is keen for the project to proceed; she has listened and is in tune with what hon. Members are saying throughout the United Kingdom. I ask her, however, to look at the issue of Euston and put pressure on her colleague, the Secretary of State for Wales, to make the case for Wales.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I will try to be brief because I have taken part in debates about this issue in the past.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on securing this debate. I like the fact that the debate’s title as set out on the Order Paper is positive, and I will resist joining in the accusations against the Secretary of State for Wales—I will wait for her performance this afternoon before the Welsh Affairs Committee.

I want to keep the debate positive because it is important that those of us in favour of High Speed 2 galvanise a campaign in support of it. I have seen the comments of business leaders in the Yorkshire Post in support of the scheme, but that is not enough and we need to bang the drum much louder. A high-speed rail link will not solve the north-south divide, but it will go a long way to remedy some of the problems. It will help us to rebalance the economy so that growth is moved across the country and is not only in the south-east of England. As has been mentioned, we must start dealing with problems of capacity. The west coast main line is already creaking; passenger numbers have doubled over the past six years, with 28 million passengers a year on that line alone. From a personal point of view, it is predicted that 40% more passengers will travel through Leeds station. We must start planning now, and it is time to start looking at high-speed rail. I believe that faster journey times will increase the prospect of investment in other parts of the country.

[Andrea Leadsom]

My hon. Friend and I have had many discussions about this issue. The most recent Government papers suggest that up to 73% of the line’s usage will be for leisure travel. How will that contribute to curing the north-south divide?

[Stuart Andrew]

I think that the Government are being conservative in their estimates of passenger numbers and who will use the high-speed network. I was about to say that even with our current creaking transport network, Leeds enjoys the second largest financial sector in the country. If we have a high-speed route to Leeds, the prospect of increasing and expanding that financial sector could become a reality.

Figures suggest that current proposals for a line between London and Birmingham will generate 40,000 jobs. When we move to the Y-shape, there will be greater prosperity and more jobs. Globalisation means that we need to start meeting the demands of a much smaller world so that those of us on the periphery, as the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said, can also enjoy the benefits of that.

Let me refer to some of the criticisms of the scheme. Too often we hear people referring only to the line to Birmingham. The whole point about HS2 is that it will go beyond that. The Y-shaped route was the best decision made by the Government. If they had chosen only the line that went to Manchester and then Leeds, I, too, would be a critic, but the fact is that the Y-shape will bring benefits to the whole country, as was confirmed by the Prime Minister on 22 June. I have heard critics say that the line will never get that far north, but the Prime Minister has been clear on the issue.

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[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to be able to speak in this high-speed debate, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on securing it and on her excellent speech.

My party has long supported high-speed rail as an essential part of the development of Britain’s public transport infrastructure. Such investment is vital to create a society in which people are free to pursue their ambitions. Economic growth has been too concentrated in London and the south-east. If the rate of growth in that area had been replicated in other areas in the past decade, the UK would have been £38 billion better off. High-speed rail is a vital investment to ensure that we manage to rebalance the economy along more equal regional lines.

One of the other arguments for high-speed rail is that it represents the type of sustainable, environmentally conscious economic growth that we need. High-speed rail is not in itself a low-carbon form of transport, as should be obvious, because machines that run at very high speeds need more power than machines that run at low speeds. However, the modal shift to which many hon. Members have referred makes it much more environmentally sustainable. In fact, that makes it vital for the long-term sustainability of our country’s infrastructure. We have heard about the likely effects for Scotland of a move from air to rail. We have also heard that long-distance services on the high-speed line would free up capacity on other major rail routes. In addition, it is important to remember that the carbon benefits of rail over aviation are likely to improve, and to continue improving, as we develop new ways of decarbonising the electricity supply.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I have to take issue with what the hon. Gentleman is saying, because the Government’s own figures suggest that the shift from air to rail is likely to be only about 7% and a number of airlines have said that that would give them the capacity to put on more long-haul flights, so it is not at all clear that there is any modal shift from air to rail. In addition, traffic flow on the M1 is expected to reduce by only 2%. Not even the Government are trying to advance the green argument.

[Dr Huppert]

I agree, in that I wish that the Government would advance environmental arguments more often. I do not have all the figures available, but we have heard the figures on links with Scotland. With a full Y-shaped network, about half the 7 million passenger trips that are currently made would be captured by High Speed 2 and I think that we would continue to make greater progress on that.

The nature of the route is not the only thing that matters. When we talk to people about the state of our public transport, a number of themes crop up. People find it hard to get the right information, to get the right connection at the right time and to buy the ticket that best suits their needs. I want the Government to make doubly sure that this new venture is not what some have said that it will be—a costly train for the well-off. The Liberal Democrats have long called for rail fares to be reviewed and, if possible, cut or refunded in the case of delays or bus replacement services. We must ensure that the same principles apply to High Speed 2. It is essential that, alongside the planning of the route, the Government adopt an approach that is designed to ensure a gradual improvement in terms and conditions for passengers on both bus and rail.

I want to see more commitment from the Government on what will happen in the longer term with regard to Scotland. I want to know whether they have a vision to ensure that the Y-shaped route will eventually run all the way to Glasgow and Edinburgh. We have the prospect of an exciting scheme that will be very good for the economy and for the environment. I look forward to working closely with the Department for Transport, the Minister and other stakeholders as we try to ensure that the project provides value for money, environmental and economic benefits and a public transport infrastructure that works and is in the best interests of passengers.

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[Graham Evans]

I am most grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention and I take his point.

Network Rail is clear about what the solution should be. It says that High Speed 2 “solves the capacity challenge” and that the proposed line would

“deliver a very large increase in capacity, including freeing up capacity on the existing network for freight, more frequent services for cities not served by the high-speed line and increased commuter services.”

That means that the constituents of the most earnest opponents of High Speed 2 will benefit directly from the plans. The point about freight is also crucial. If we are to rebalance our economy, with more northern-based manufacturing—figures show the Government are already making strong progress on that—that will involve demands for additional freight capacity.

High Speed 2 therefore directly benefits a wide range of people, from commuters in Cheshire to manufacturers in Coventry. A lot of flim-flam will be spoken about the business case for high-speed rail by its opponents, but the business case is strong. The estimated benefit to the economy is more than £40 billion pounds.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Graham Evans]

No, I need to finish.

More than 40,000 new jobs will be created, with an additional 30,000 jobs created at the ends of the line and around the new stations. The taxpayer will enjoy benefits worth more than double what the project will cost. However, hon. Members should not just take it from me or the Government that the business case is strong. Hundreds of leading businesses across the country back the plans, and Network Rail, having carefully examined all the different options, said that it

“found the business case for a new high speed network was robust.”

[Graham Evans]

No, I need to finish.

Hon. Members will forgive me if put more stock in the words of Network Rail and Britain’s business leaders than in those of, say, the South Northants Action Group Against HS2. High Speed 2 will help to deliver economic growth.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Graham Evans]

No; I am sorry, but I need to finish. My hon. Friend should have come earlier.

High Speed 2 will deliver low-carbon economic growth, dramatically reducing the demand for domestic flights and shifting 6 million journeys from aviation to rail. Finally, let me try to humanise the benefits. In the previous debate, I talked about how High Speed 2 will give businesses and families—

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[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on securing the debate and on putting her case. She added a distinctively Welsh dimension to the debate on high-speed rail. As someone who studied at college in north-east Wales, and who travelled weekly from the Shotton and Wrexham stations to Manchester for a good three years, I fully understand the issues she raised about connectivity, particularly with north-west England.

Across the world, our major competitors are investing in high-speed rail, and it is important that Britain is not left behind in the race for faster connectivity. As my hon. Friend said, the prospect of bringing our major cities closer together brings with it the potential to boost investment and economic growth in the regions of England—and particularly in the north of England—Scotland and Wales.

During its period in government, the Labour party began the process of moving Britain into the high-speed age. Through electrification, more advanced trains and investment in new technology, we cut journey times on our major inter-city routes. Where there was a need for a new line, we delivered it, constructing the first major new railway for more than 100 years, between London and the channel tunnel.

Before we left office, we began to plan the next stages of the process of moving our rail network into its high-speed future. We prepared for the next phase of electrification and the procurement of the new generation of more advanced inter-city trains. We began to work with Network Rail to identify the next priorities for investment to increase capacity and reduce journey times, such as the northern hub proposal.

We therefore welcome the Government’s decision to take forward much of the electrification that we planned, although we are disappointed at the decision not to stick to our commitment to electrify the final part of the great western main line between Cardiff and Swansea. A commitment should also have been made to ensuring that the midland main line is the next important priority for electrification. We also welcome the decision to proceed with the inter-city express programme following the further review carried out by the Secretary of State, although we still have to hear an adequate explanation of why the number of new trains has been scaled back so considerably.

Of course, Labour Members also welcome the Government’s decision to continue to plan for the new high-speed line that is proposed to address the capacity issues on the west coast main line, which will get worse in later years, as we have heard from the hon. Members for Northampton South (Mr Binley), for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw), for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) and for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans). Within the next 20 years, the average long-distance west coast main line train is projected to be 80% full and routinely to have very severe overcrowding for much of the time. The new line will also bring reductions in journey times.

We welcome the Government’s decision to drop their pre-election insistence that passengers should have to go via Manchester to get to Leeds, which the hon. Member for Pudsey mentioned. We also welcome the alterations that have been made to the route to do more to mitigate the scheme’s impact on local communities and the environment, although there is still concern about the impact of the new line, and that needs to be addressed.

Thanks to the decision to take only the powers needed for the route from London to Birmingham, there is considerable scepticism about the Government’s commitment to take a new line further north. Labour’s plan was always to have one hybrid Bill for the entire new Y-shaped line. Of course, that would have meant that the Bill was delayed—perhaps by a year—but it would have saved considerable parliamentary time across the project. I therefore urge the Minister, as I did in a previous contribution, to think again about that.

The Minister cannot be surprised at the scepticism that exists, when even her own MPs are giving the game away about the true reason for the Government’s conversion to high speed. Only yesterday, writing on ConservativeHome, the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field), who was here for the debate earlier, said:

“Indeed, the genesis of the project was a response to relentless business criticism of the Party’s decision to oppose a third runway at Heathrow. HS2 allowed the Conservatives in Opposition to cloak itself in a visionary, environmentally friendly, long-term transport policy.”

That suggests that, for the Government, the policy is not necessarily about narrowing the north-south divide, but a fig leaf for their lack of an aviation policy and, I might even add, a growth policy.

In contrast, the Labour party’s support for increasing speed and capacity is something we delivered on in government and is rooted in our genuine commitment to the rail network. It is vital that we think it terms of a single high-speed rail network across Britain, and that we achieve reduced journey times and increased capacity through a programme of electrification, new advanced trains and new lines, where that is the best way to address capacity issues.

In the policy review we are carrying out, we are looking at what the future strategy should be for rail in Britain as a whole. It makes no sense to look at proposed new lines in isolation or to preclude them from our review. A number of issues are being raised with us as part of our review, and the same is no doubt true of the Government’s consultation. I would therefore welcome the Minister’s response to a number of those issues.

First, there is considerable concern that any new lines should be fully integrated into the existing rail network. We must ensure that we can maximise the benefits of the proposed new lines, with rail all over the country and with major London projects such as Crossrail and Thameslink.

There is a view that the precise alignment of the route the Government have chosen is driven very much by the very high top speeds proposed for the new line. That speed is considerably above that on high-speed lines in use across the world, and some countries—notably China—are even slowing down their high-speed trains to address cost, energy use, safety and environmental concerns. Some believe that the need for the route to go through a sensitive part of the Chilterns is entirely down to the speed calculations that have been made. It would be helpful if we had some clarity on that.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Do the Opposition intend to respond to the consultation by 29 July?

[Andrew Gwynne]

The Opposition will take full part in all these debates, I assure the hon. Lady of that.

There is widespread incredulity at the fact that the cost of actually using the new lines does not feature at all in the current consultation, when, surely, that is a critical factor. If the whole point is that passengers will make the switch from the existing lines to reduce overcrowding on them, how can any assessment have been made of the likelihood of that happening without any knowledge of the likely difference in ticket price between the two lines? We know that it costs more to travel on High Speed 1 than on other services along that route, and there is no reason to believe that the proposed new line will be any different. Speaking of HS1, the Secretary of State for Transport announced in an interview in the Financial Times a few days ago that, just as with HS1, he proposes to sell the new line even before it has been built—something I would have hoped he might announce to Parliament.

A further issue that comes up frequently in our policy review is the decision not to join up the new line to Heathrow from the start, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) suggested. That is of course our only major hub airport. In opposition the Minister said that

“failing to take HSR through Heathrow would be a big mistake”.

Instead, what is proposed is an expensive further spur to be built at a later date.

Not surprisingly, the cost of the scheme continues to cause concern. It has previously been acknowledged that the construction costs for major projects in the UK are significantly higher than for comparable projects elsewhere in Europe. It is vital that the Government work with Infrastructure UK to find ways to ensure that the cost to the taxpayer of the scheme is kept under control.

Finally, I repeat the concern already raised that the proposed hybrid Bill includes only part of the new line. Surely one hybrid Bill on high speed is enough.

Rail is thriving in Britain. More people are travelling than at any time since the 1920s. There are 1.3 billion journeys by train every year, and predictions of a doubling of that figure in 30 years. Increased capacity and continuing reductions in journey times are essential to the continuation of such success. That is why we made great strides towards high-speed rail in government, and why the debate about how any new lines that are needed are delivered is so important.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones)on securing a debate on this important issue, and I welcome the widespread support for the Government’s plans, expressed from both sides of the House by a clear majority of the hon. Members present. I hope that all colleagues who attended, including those who did not choose to stay to the end, will encourage all their constituents to take part in the consultation, which closes on 29 July, and make their support for the Government’s proposals clear.

In answer to the questions, there is no delay; the timetable that we are taking forward is the same as the one proposed by the previous Government. On the allegation of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), repeated yet again, that we are not serious about going to the north of England, we supported a link to the north of England before Labour did. We supported a national network while Labour’s 30-year strategy for the railways ruled out high-speed rail at all. They are the people who are late to the party on high-speed rail, so the hon. Gentleman is in no position to criticise us. Nor is he in any position to criticise our approach to international connections. Labour had no connection to Heathrow in its plans, and nor did it put forward proposals to connect HS2 to HS1. Both those facts show that Labour was not serious about international connections. In response to questions on this point, and the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw), I repeat my support for taking high-speed rail to the north of England.

Questions were asked about a hybrid Bill and yes, the first hybrid Bill will cover the first phase, but we hope to go on in due course to an informal consultation next year on phase 2 to the north of England, with a hybrid Bill in due course in the next Parliament. I emphasise that the Government entirely recognise the concerns of communities about the preferred route and the potential impact on their local environment. We are listening to all those concerns. We have already made changes to about half the route that we inherited from our predecessors. As has already been mentioned, while our preferred route passes through the sensitive Chilterns area, all but 1.2 miles of it is in either a tunnel or a cutting, or alongside a main transport corridor—the A413 being a particular example. I am convinced that the result of the extensive process of consultation on the hybrid Bill will not be nearly as negative for communities as they fear. I am confident that with careful mitigation we can address the most serious local impacts, as happened so successfully with HS1. Intense controversy surrounded that first stretch of high-speed rail for the UK. Because of the hard work that went into getting the right route and the right mitigation, HS1 has not had the disruptive impact that communities feared it would. We can do the same with the route for HS2.

On what my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) said about HS1 somehow pushing up fares on the conventional service, the fares decisions taken by the previous Government were related to capacity enhancements and improvements on the conventional existing line, and not to HS1. The hon. Members for Clwyd South and for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) made points about Euston, and of course there is more work to be done in relation to Euston—and the rest of the route. That is why HS2 Ltd is working with Camden residents, and why it is entirely legitimate for Members of the House to make representations about the Government’s preferred route.

As to points that were made about the Secretary of State for Wales, we are, as I have said, undertaking an extensive consultation on a preferred route for high-speed rail. No decision has been taken about the right route. All we have is a preferred option. It is entirely appropriate for MPs, including members of the Government, to take part in a debate about what final route should be chosen and make representations on behalf of their constituents.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mrs Villiers]

No.

Several points were made—

High-Speed Rail

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Kelvin Hopkins]

I have made my main points. I have made them before in this Chamber, and I shall continue to make them, because they are rational. A lot of people in the industry also support my view, which is not based on nimbyism but on what Britain really needs. Britain does not need HS2; it needs more investment in conventional rail and, indeed, in rail freight.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Walker. For several months, the hon. Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson), my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) and I have attempted to secure this debate via the Backbench Business Committee. We have been preparing for this incredibly important debate for a long time, and I was assured only yesterday by the Table Office that my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) would make a few brief comments, and then I would be the first speaker.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

It is always helpful if the Table Office conveys to the Chair the discussions it has had with Members’ researchers. If there has been confusion, I will get to the bottom of it.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Walker. I am delighted to see so many right hon. and hon. Members in this Chamber. I would particularly like to mention my hon. Friends the Members for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant), for Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Mr Randall), who are present today.

I am sick to the back teeth about the way in which the debate on high-speed rail is being trivialised into the nimbys versus business recovery, the poverty-stricken north versus the privileged south, and the commuter versus the community. The debate about high-speed rail should be about how best to deliver the transport infrastructure that Britain desperately needs to ensure a rebalancing of our economy, with prospects for private sector recovery coming from all parts of the UK and not just the dominant south-east.

High-speed rail will be an eye-wateringly expensive project, costing at least as much as the renewal of Trident. It is crucial that a project that would cost each family in Britain £1,000 is properly scrutinised to deliver not just the benefits of extra capacity, but the value for money that taxpayers are entitled to expect. I will make the case that high-speed rail does not deliver value for money. That is not a nimby perspective. I have spent 23 years in banking and finance, including in project finance. I do not believe that the economic case stacks up and I am certainly not alone in that view.

My hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie), Chairman of the Treasury Committee, gave a speech immediately following the Budget. He said:

“In our efforts to return to sustained growth, we need to make the best use of every pound invested in our public services. Another example of the need to make sure we have coherence in growth policy has been put to me by colleagues on both sides of the House. They have asked whether spending £17 billion on a high-speed rail link is better use of the money than investing in modern rolling stock and improving the existing tracks.”—[Official Report, 23 March 2011; Vol. 525, c. 973.]

That is precisely the question that Parliament needs to debate and resolve. Others who question high-speed rail, and whom, I feel sure, could not be accused of nimbyism, include the TaxPayers’ Alliance, the Adam Smith Institute, the Institute of Economic Affairs, Friends of the Earth, the Sustainable Development Commission, rail experts and the Countryside Alliance. So let us have a proper debate today and acknowledge that all who speak here are in favour of the central goal of achieving better transport infrastructure, in support of rebalancing our economy and a private sector-led recovery.

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

All three major parties had HS2 in their manifestos, including the party for which my hon. Friend stood. Why is she choosing this moment to put these points forward, rather than before the general election?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank my hon. Friend for those remarks. Ever since Lord Adonis introduced the proposal, I have opposed it, as I am sure my right hon. Friend the Minister will recall.

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

The proposal was, of course, in our manifesto. That is a particularly important point for my constituency because we were deadly opposed to the third runway at Heathrow. One of the most important alternatives our party suggested was putting people on trains rather than planes. I appreciate that the proposal will not make a difference to travel from Birmingham, because there are no planes from there to Heathrow but, when we push up north, it could make a significant difference to the use of domestic flights to Heathrow. For that reason alone, it is very easy for me to support the proposal.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend. We desperately need to improve dramatically the capacity in our train infrastructure. I hope that she will bear with me, because I intend to show that we can achieve that without needing to spend the amount of money that we are talking about for high-speed rail.

[Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

On that point, lest people think that that argument means that this is somehow a green solution, is it not the case that any slots freed up at Heathrow from domestic airlines will be taken up by long-haul airlines, thus increasing not decreasing emissions?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes, indeed. There have been plenty of anecdotal reports from low-cost airlines suggesting that they would welcome the opportunity to put on more cheap long-haul flights.

I plan to challenge four aspects of the case for HS2: the business case, the environmental case, the claims about job creation and the potential for regeneration. I am a firm believer that one cannot attack something without providing an alternative. I will therefore also discuss a viable alternative to HS2. I have based my challenges on phase 1 of HS2, in spite of the fact, unfortunately, that the consultation incorporates the entire Y-shaped project. There is too little detail on the assumptions underlying phase 2 to be able to assess the figures properly. I also need to point out that the original business case, written by Atkins for the Department for Transport in March 2010, was updated last month. The new business case is considerably less attractive than the old one.

I will deal first with the business case for HS2. HS2 Ltd claims a net benefit ratio, which includes the wider economic impacts, of 2. That means that for every pound spent, there will be £2 of benefit. That is about the minimum return that could be expected from a rail project—the bar for roads projects is significantly higher. Even that modest claim, however, makes enormous assumptions. Specifically, one of the core and somewhat ludicrous assumptions is that all the time spent on a train journey is wasted, and therefore that every minute of a train journey that is saved can be given a value in pounds—the number of minutes saved, multiplied by the earnings of an individual. That would not matter so much except that the journey time savings account for more than 50% of the £20 billion of total economic benefit claimed for the project. I urge the Department for Transport to look again closely at that point.

[David Mowat]

On the first point, the ratio of 2 is for the London to Birmingham link. As my hon. Friend will know, the ratio is 2.6 for the link to Manchester and to Leeds. Including the wider economic benefits, it is 2.6. I have the business case for Crossrail, which my hon. Friend may have had the chance to have a look at. The business case in that is 1.87. The final point that my hon. Friend might wish to consider is the idle time point, which is very important.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. We have had too many questions.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am struggling to follow some of my hon. Friend’s numbers, because I think that he might be looking at the numbers from the original business case, not from the current one. I do not want to address his points specifically because those numbers do not quite register with me. I apologise for that.

Passenger forecasts are another major assumption in the business case, relying on a 216% rise in demand for train travel. That figure remains wildly optimistic, in spite of being downgraded from the original business case, in which growth of 267% was forecast. The Department for Transport’s own national travel survey shows that overall transport demand is no longer growing with GDP. Eurostar’s passenger numbers in 2009 had reached only 37% of the level that was forecast, as a result of building the HS1 link. The Public Accounts Committee took evidence from the Department for Transport on that point and was reassured by it that lessons had been learned and that any future major project would factor in more severe downside assumptions—that has clearly not been the case. The only comparable forecasts for long distance rail travel by 2036 are from Network Rail, which predicts a range of growth of 45% to 89%, versus that forecast by HS2 Ltd in its original business case of 133% growth by 2033. I urge the Department for Transport to look closely again at that assumption.

Of course, in cash terms HS2 will never pay for itself. Once built, only one third of the total claimed benefits will be captured through fares. The value of the net revenues once it has been built—with a presumption of fares of £14 billion, less operating costs of £6 billion over a 60-year project life—will cover only less than half of the capital costs. At a time when families up and down the country are feeling the pinch, we must make sure that infrastructure projects offer value for money. Many people would argue that not a penny will be spent until 2015 anyway, but between 2009 and 2015 the Department for Transport expects to spend around £1 billion just on preparing the way for high-speed rail.

Secondly, on the environmental impact, HS2 Ltd itself says that the project is, at best, carbon neutral. It predicts that 65% of passengers will either transfer from existing rail services, where faster trains inevitably increase carbon emissions, or are additional new journeys as a result of the faster trains, which will also increase emissions. The shorter journeys by air that will transfer to HS2, will ironically, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) said, provide more capacity at our regional airports for cheaper long-haul flights. It is estimated that the modal shift from car to high-speed train will be approximately 7%. In fact, HS2 Ltd forecasts that the traffic volumes on the M1 will be reduced by only 2% as a result of HS2. So, it is not green. There will also be a significant environmental impact during construction, as well as permanently, to the English countryside, wildlife and historic sites.

Thirdly and fourthly, on the prospects for job creation and regeneration, the Department for Transport claims that HS2 will create 30,000 new jobs. Some 9,000 will be construction jobs and are likely to be temporary. The rest are skewed towards property development and retail near stations.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

It is not often that I am at odds with my hon. Friend and her point of view. However, only yesterday 90 business leaders from Yorkshire published an open letter in the Yorkshire Post, which sent a resounding message to the Government and said very clearly that high-speed rail is vital for Yorkshire’s success in the future. Who is right: the 90 business leaders in Yorkshire, or my hon. Friend?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is very unusual for us to disagree. The reality is that we all share the same goal: to regenerate our economy and to provide good value for money to the taxpayer. What we are arguing about is how we achieve that. Surely my hon. Friend would agree that HS2 is not the only possible means by which to achieve that regeneration. We have to look at what gives us the best value for money.

Up to 70% of the new jobs created by HS2 will benefit London, where Old Oak Common is believed to be the best location for regeneration. I am sure that many hon. Members across the House do not feel that regeneration benefits to London represent good value for money. In fact, research on capital expenditure in the wider economy suggests that the cost of creating one job in the first phase is about four times the cost of capital expenditure in the wider economy. Again, I urge the Department for Transport to consider whether the project will create jobs. Would it be better to spend the money elsewhere and get four times the number of jobs in the wider economy?

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is falling into the trap into which she said she did not want to fall—the north-south divide. In the ward in my constituency where the interchange will be based, just over half the working-age population are currently in employment. Investment in employment is needed in large parts of London, and in the south as well as the north, and she should perhaps have regard to that.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Of course, he is absolutely right, but one of the key advantages that is talked about by those who advocate HS2 is the regeneration potential for the north of the country, and the scheme’s contribution to rebalancing our economy between the north and the south. I am sure he will agree that while there are benefits to regeneration in some desperate parts of the south as well, HS2 will not provide the regeneration in the north that is claimed for it.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend not recognise that HS2 coupled with the northern hub would actually provide many jobs in the north and help to end the north-south divide?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I absolutely am a supporter of the northern hub—there is no doubt about that—but I refer him to my comments. HS2 is an extraordinarily expensive way of achieving jobs. In the wider economy, the cost of providing one job through capital expenditure is believed to be some 25% of the cost of providing one job through this project. I do not believe that it is a good way to create jobs, whether in the north or the south.

In summary, I believe that HS2 is a deeply flawed proposal that will not deliver the economic, environmental, employment or regeneration benefits that are claimed for it. However, I absolutely recognise the shortcomings of our existing transport infrastructure, and I commend the Government for the many measures they are taking to sort out long-standing bottlenecks.

The rebalancing of our economy and a private sector-led recovery will depend on significant investment in infrastructure, but there is an alternative to HS2 that can achieve the capacity the country needs at far better value for money: Rail Package 2. RP2 can provide 135% extra capacity, extendable to 176%, and a significant advantage is that it can be introduced incrementally as passenger demand increases. It requires certain things: lengthening all Pendolino trains to 11 cars from the current mix of nine and 11 cars; replacing some commuter trains with 125 mph stock so as not to delay faster trains; dealing with bottlenecks at seven specific points along the line; adding platforms at Euston and Manchester, and considering laying more track into Birmingham.

RP2 to the west midlands has a benefit-cost ratio of 1.9 versus 1.6 for HS2 London to west midlands, excluding the wider economic impacts. The benefit-cost ratio of the whole Y-shaped project is higher, at 2.2, but there is not enough information about the assumptions to evaluate that. In any case, I have provided plenty of information to challenge the assumptions.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

Is my hon. Friend aware that the analysis of the business case for RP2 does not take into account the huge cost that would come from disruption to services as a result of the kind of upgrade she is talking about?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her intervention. I had not written that into my contribution because there is so much to say. As she well knows, HS2 requires the complete rebuilding of Euston station, and it would be extraordinarily difficult for services to be able to continue on the west coast main line during that period. In addition, as I am sure she knows, the proposals in RP2 are not the same as the first incremental improvements to the west coast main line in the first phase of regeneration, which required rebuilding virtually the whole of the track and the signals. The incremental proposals are entirely achievable while existing network services are utilised along the west coast main line.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does my hon. Friend accept that the more intensively a transport system is used, the higher the price paid in terms of lack of resilience? One of the major concerns about RP2 is that the line is intensively used at present, and the kind of even more intense use that she advocates would have a significant impact on it and cause major deterioration in reliability. There would be a significant negative impact on the quality of the passenger experience.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank the Minister again, but I have to disagree with her. There is no evidence that suggests that RP2 would involve a desperately intensive use of the west coast main line. Not only that, the capacity created by it would significantly exceed the likely demand, certainly in the short and medium term. Other rail experts argue that the forecasting model that is being used by the Department for Transport is suitable for forecasting demand up to 10 years only, not the 43 or 45 years for which the Department is forecasting. There is no clear evidence that my proposal would entail that intensity of west coast main line usage.

Another significant benefit of RP2 is that it can be delivered far quicker than HS2, thereby dealing with the problems of overcrowding now, rather than leaving the commuters of Manchester, Birmingham, Rugby and Milton Keynes to wait until 2026 for proper relief. The danger that is inherent in forecasting out to 45 years, as the Department has done, is removed by using RP2. It can be implemented incrementally—it is not all or nothing—and problems can be dealt with as they arise.

I fear that HS2 is a flawed project. There is no doubt that we have to improve our transport infrastructure, but I urge the Department to reconsider RP2, which is cheaper and more environmentally friendly. It would deal with the problems sooner and far more accurately than HS2.

I shall conclude with a final call to action. The original mandate of HS2 Ltd was to look at the feasibility of, and the business case for, a new high-speed rail line between London and the west midlands, and to consider the case for high-speed rail services linking London, northern England and Scotland. Because of that mandate, HS2 Ltd inevitably has a vested interested in seeing HS2 built. For the credibility of the project, the Department should undertake an independent comparison of the merits of HS2 versus RP2. Legitimate concerns have been ignored because of the insistence that opposition is just nimbysm. We must put that aside and have a rigorous debate on how to achieve our shared goals while getting the greatest bang for our buck. Thank you, Mr Walker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dan Byles]

I am delighted to hear the Minister say that that is not true.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I would like to make the point that it is not possible for my right hon. Friend to make that claim. The transport network is actually in the private sector. Therefore, if the rail operators find that they are losing revenue because there is no longer the overcrowding that there was because of the 65% transferral of passengers to high-speed rail, they will inevitably either put up fares or reduce services. The most likely outcome is a reduction of services, because fares are capped.

[Dan Byles]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. The very fact that the Minister referred to indicative figures—they are out there in the public domain, are causing concern, and are often quoted—shows that we have not yet had sufficient discussion or debate about the impact. From a sedentary position, hon. Members have rubbished some of the claims for Rail Package 2, and say that work has been done and shows that some of our claims for it are simply not true. Where is that work? Why is it not being published? Why is the Department for Transport not addressing the questions that opponents of HS2 are asking? Instead, it is addressing motives, and using words such as “nimby” and so on instead of addressing arguments. The Department should address those questions, but it is not doing so adequately.

Of more concern is the fact that there is evidence from studies of existing high-speed rail services in other countries that, far from pushing economic growth from the centre to the regions, they may have the opposite effect. They may suck economic activity from the regions toward the centre. There is a real danger of economic growth draining away from, for example, Birmingham and the surrounding region towards London. The Research Institute of Applied Economics at the university of Barcelona studied existing high-speed rail networks in Japan, France, Germany, Spain and Italy. Its findings should cause policy makers in the UK to sit up and take notice. It suggested that smaller cities linked to larger cities by high-speed rail lines sometimes suffer from a negative agglomeration effect. That may take several forms, but the report is very clear about the risks for smaller cities such as Birmingham when linked to a larger city such as London.

I shall quote briefly from the report. It states:

“It is consistently reported that HSR does not generate any new activities nor does it attract new firms and investment, but rather it helps to consolidate and promote ongoing processes as well as to facilitate intra-organizational journeys for those firms and institutions for whom mobility is essential.”

It continues:

“In fact, for regions and cities whose economic conditions compare unfavorably with those of their neighbors, a connection to the HST line may even result in economic activities being drained away and an overall negative impact”

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

The project will create jobs throughout the country. The suggestion that all the cities that are calling for high-speed rail will see their economic growth sucked away by London just does not hold water. Look around Europe, where cities such as Lille and Lyons have been transformed. In Europe and Asia, cities are fighting hard to be on the high-speed rail networks that other countries have the courage and determination to deliver.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that unemployment in Lille rose after high-speed rail went there?

[Mrs Villiers]

What I know is that Lille’s prospects were transformed by high-speed rail, and its unemployment level fell to much closer to the French average. If people in Lille were asked whether high-speed rail was bad for them, or whether they would like it to be shut down, I suspect that they would say no.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) said, shrinking journeys between cities in the north will have a hugely beneficial impact, enabling them increasingly to merge into a single economic area. I emphasise that with its potential to regenerate regional economies, create thousands of jobs, and boost our national economy by about £44 billion, the project is about much more than shaving half an hour off the journey time to Birmingham.

That brings me to the next allegation—that the project is not affordable. In practice, most of the spending will not kick in for at least five years, so it is not competing directly with other priorities in the current period of austerity. Spending will then be phased in over the period of construction, which we all know is, sadly, a long one. The annual average cost will not be out of line with projects such as Crossrail, as my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale pointed out. The figures in the consultation document also make no allowance for possible private sector contributions, which could be considerable, as hon. Members have pointed out, particularly in relation to the expected benefits of station redevelopment.

Perhaps most important is that delivering a major uplift in inter-urban transport capacity is not some nice-to-have luxury. It is absolutely essential if we are to prevent a capacity crisis on the west coast line and other key transport corridors in the years to come. No Government can afford to sit back, ignore the problem, and pretend that it does not exist.

Despite the valiant efforts of my hon. Friends the Members for South Northamptonshire, and for North Warwickshire, and the hon. Member for Coventry North West, the opponents of HS2 have not made a convincing case that there is a better way of dealing with the expected growth in demand for inter-city travel. My hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) suggested that information technology will provide the answer. I certainly hope that future advances in technology will make video-conferencing an alternative to more journeys, but I am afraid that after in-depth research, the Committee on Climate Change concluded that the net impact of such technology on travel is likely to be minimal, and I am afraid that improvements to the existing network just cannot provide the capacity that HS2 would. The Government are already committed to delivering a 30% uplift in capacity on the west coast line, with new carriages being introduced from April 2012, but that will simply not be enough to meet the demand for inter-city travel in the decades to come.

In response to the shadow Minister’s question about the capacity to deliver, HS2 would deliver 14 trains an hour, each of which would have about 1,100 seats. RP2 simply will not meet the future needs of this country’s transport system. The practical realities of further work on the existing line have a serious downside. As the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) said, passengers were subjected to a decade of disruption with the improvements to the west coast line, which have just been completed.

For the information of my hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire, the work required at Euston for RP2 would be considerably more disruptive than those required there for HS2, because they would have to be carried out within Euston’s current footprint, making it much more difficult to keep current services going. Disruption would be much worse this time, because the west coast line is twice as busy as it was seven years ago.

The most viable journey time savings that could be achieved using the existing line would involve cutting out intermediate stops, which we all know would be deeply upsetting for the affected communities. Moreover, line upgrades cannot deliver any released capacity benefits, and squeezing even more into the current timetable to allow more intense use of the line would compromise resilience, and is virtually guaranteed to lead to a serious deterioration in reliability. In contrast, infrastructure-related delays on HS1 average just 6.8 seconds. The simple truth is that whatever is done to the existing line, it could never match the economic benefits of faster journey times, capacity uplift, and regeneration that HS2 would deliver.

The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) called for leadership in delivering the project, and we intend to provide that. He asked whether appropriate rolling-stock designs were available. Our research and analysis is based on rolling stock that is already in use in the many countries that have embarked on high-speed rail. My hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale pointed out that the high-speed rail link is a manifesto promise, and it is one that we intend to keep. My hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth expressed concern about the current status of compensation, and I assure him that the exceptional hardship scheme is already in operation.

Lastly, I will address the allegation that high-speed rail is not green and offers no environmental benefits. Our analysis shows that the shift from road and aviation that would come with delivering the west midlands section of the line would broadly offset any increase in carbon emissions from the new line, despite the significant increase in passenger journeys that it would accommodate. We would get a major economic boost without increasing carbon emissions, which is just the sort of sustainable growth most people in the country say we should have. The modal shift resulting from the Y-shaped network to the north of England would be greater still, with as many as 6 million journeys by air and 9 million by road expected to migrate to rail. The carbon benefits of rail over aviation are set to grow as we make progress on decarbonising the electricity supply.

The consultation under way is one of the most wide-ranging ever undertaken. We will listen to and consider all responses with care, including those that will help us further mitigate potential local impact, which I know hon. Members are concerned about. I genuinely believe that with care, effort and high-quality engineering, we can address the worst local impacts and provide much-needed reassurance to the constituents of hon. Members who have taken part in the debate. Similar things were done for HS1.

Today, we still rely almost entirely on railways built by the Victorians, and I think it is time we started catching up with the high-speed rail revolution on which our European partners embarked more than a generation ago. I believe that we can—and should—aspire to the sort of high-quality long-distance travel network that other countries take for granted. Our high-speed rail plans provide a once-in-a-generation chance to address the transport capacity needs of our economy in the future, transform our economic geography, and generate a boost for jobs and growth worth billions of pounds. We know that it will not be an easy process, but we should not let this opportunity slip through our fingers. I have welcomed the opportunity to set some of our plans before the House this afternoon.

Question put and agreed to.

Rail Investment

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Ellman]

Indeed. The hon. Gentleman may recall that previous reports of the Transport Committee during the time of the previous Government were not slow to criticise the inadequacies of the Government where we felt it was appropriate to do so, and rolling stock was one of those areas. We also have the ongoing saga of the new generation of InterCity trains. In November, the Government announced that they had narrowed their options for the replacement of the old InterCity 125s down to two: a bid from Agility Trains for a mixture of electric and hybrid trains; and a proposal for a fleet of all-new electric trains that could be coupled to new diesel locomotives where the overhead electric power lines end. I know that many of my colleagues in Wales are anxious for that decision to be made because of the impact that it will have on the Great Western main line to Swansea. Again, the Government have not been very clear about what is happening regarding that line and I would be grateful for any clarification.

During the next control period, which is between 2014 and 2019, and beyond, it is extremely important that we have continuing and substantial investment in the rail network, improving it to accommodate passenger growth and to alleviate unacceptable overcrowding. One of the priorities for the next control period must be investment in the rail infrastructure in the north of England. Our Committee’s report shows very clearly how the south, particularly London, has benefited from rail investment. We support that investment, but we noted in the report that when we examined the amount of transport investment per head we found that there was three times as much in London and the south-east as in other regions of the country. We support investment in London and the south-east, but similar interest should be shown in the needs of the north.

The particular project that we recommended in our report was the northern hub. That bottleneck in the Manchester area critically affects the operation of both passenger and freight services right across the north of England, including in Leeds, Liverpool and Newcastle. The Northern Way study concluded that addressing the northern hub could provide economic benefits worth up to £16 billion for the economy of the north.

Investing in the northern hub remains as important as ever. However, there is particular concern about that issue, because of what has happened to the organisations that brought the project together. The combined work of the three northern regional development agencies was very significant in developing the project, costing it and working out its implications and benefits. Sadly, the project for the northern hub—the Northern Way project—may no longer be supported because the RDAs are being disbanded. Indeed, it is very unclear what will happen to the organisation that has developed and costed that project in such great detail. I would be very pleased if the Minister could confirm that she will support that project as a top-priority project for the north in the period ahead.

The longer-term investment priority is the development of a high-speed network. Our Committee welcomed the previous Government’s change of policy when they decided to support high-speed rail. However, we emphasised that investment in high-speed rail should not detract from investment in the existing classic network. Moreover, if high-speed rail is important for the route from London to Birmingham—as the current Government have stated, and I agree with them—it is equally important that it extends to the north.

The case for high-speed rail has been put forward, based largely on the need for additional capacity for both passengers and freight. That argument is very important, but it is also very important that the economic impact of high-speed rail is recognised. Indeed, the Government have said as much many times. They have said that their support for high-speed rail is based on the need to reduce the disparities between north and south. That means that if high-speed rail goes ahead, as I hope it will, it must go beyond Birmingham to the north.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady accept that there are concerns about whether High Speed 2 is necessary to achieve the capacity increases that are so badly needed between London and Birmingham?

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. That is an important issue and indeed it is extremely important that the Government spell out their case very clearly on the need for HS2, particularly given the considerable opposition to HS2 from a number of quarters. The Government must do that.

Finally, my Committee has recently returned from a visit to Brussels where we met the Transport Commissioner, European Commission officials and Members of the European Parliament, including members of the Transport and Tourism Committee. One of the subjects that we discussed was the UK’s failure to apply for funding from the European Union. We received information that suggested that the EU might be willing to part-fund the cost of feasibility studies into HS2, paying 50% of those costs. However, it appears that no application has been made for Trans-European Transport Networks, or TEN-T, funding, which could part-fund the costs of looking into HS2. Indeed, when members of my Committee questioned the Minister recently in our inquiry into European issues, it appeared that the UK was rather slow, or perhaps loth, to apply for European funding. I wonder if we could receive some assurance from the Minister today that the Government will look at that issue again, particularly the possibility of securing European funding for studies into the viability of HS2.

Deciding the priorities for rail is a very important task. Our Committee’s report was produced a year ago, but it is clear that the priorities and concerns that we highlighted are equally relevant today. I hope that this debate today will help to take the debate on rail priorities forward and help to secure increasing investment for the extremely important service that is our rail network.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

I join other hon. Members in congratulating the Chair of the Transport Committee, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), on securing this debate about the priorities for rail investment. That is an important topic, as it involves the relative merits of what our money is spent on. Value for taxpayers’ money is a subject dear to my heart.

Almost a year ago, I was the unsuspecting candidate for South Northamptonshire. Suddenly, I heard Lord Adonis’s announcement about high-speed rail that was, quite literally, to change my life, and it hit me out of the blue that the line would go through the middle of South Northamptonshire. Within days, I held a public meeting that was attended by about 550 people. Of those, 400 were on two floors of a town hall in Brackley, and 150 were outside on the pavement trying to get in.

I do not want to focus on that today. Hon. Members from across the House have made accusations of nimbyism, noted that if we want to make an omelette a few eggs have to be cracked and made other helpful remarks. Therefore, I will not talk about the fact that I have had nigh on 1,000 pieces of correspondence. My right hon. Friend the Minister knows that only too well, as I am in regular correspondence with her and the Department for Transport.

There are real concerns. Some schools in my constituency may be unviable from now on because of the risk that high-speed rail will run so close to the school that in a few years’ time—within the time frame for parents to decide where to send their children to school—that school will be forced to close. If that threat exists, why would any sensible parent send their child to such a school? There are families who need to move but do not quite meet the criteria for the exceptional hardship scheme. They do not know when they will be able to move, if ever. There is a risk that the famous English battle site at Edgcote will be severely damaged by the proposed route. There are many small battles to fight in South Northamptonshire to protect ourselves in terms of mitigation. Again, I will not talk about that now, because I have been accused of nimbyism too many times. Instead, I will focus on my 23 years in banking and finance, and hope that that will give me the credibility to point out the issues about value for money and the choices that we need to make about our priorities for rail infrastructure.

We expect the High Speed 2 line from London to Birmingham to cost around £17 billion. That is largely a guess, as such major infrastructure projects often have big overruns. I know the Department for Transport is concerned about the fact that civil engineering in this country costs such a great deal. As a frequent user of the line from Euston to Milton Keynes, I accept that the west coast main line is at capacity. I have taken trains home at 8 pm, and still found myself standing shoulder to shoulder. It is a matter not of having a seat, but of having anywhere to stand. However, is that need for capacity best met through a brand new, 250 mph train line, or can we achieve something similar by providing additional capacity on existing railway lines, and using the change—a significant amount of money—to fulfil some of the other interesting and compelling projects that hon. Members have mentioned today?

As I have heard many times, because of the capacity issue there has to be a new train line, and if we are to have a new train line, it may as well be high speed. That is my first challenge. High-speed rail has massive implications in terms of engineering costs and the impact on the environment and the communities through which it passes. Does the line have to be high speed? Will it even reach 250 mph? Certain international rail consultants have challenged whether such a line in Britain—a small country with complications caused by the lie of the land, the wrong sort of leaves, the wrong sort of snow and probably the wrong sort of trespassers on the line—will actually ever reach 250 mph on a regular basis. If it does not, what on earth is the point of spending the money to go in a straight line? That is my first major question.

Secondly, I have seen evidence that suggests that a similar amount of capacity could be freed-up on the west coast main line by providing 12-coach trains, making adjustments to certain stations and carrying out other alterations that would not incur the type of disruption that we saw in previous upgrades to that line. Is this an issue of capacity, or is it a case of, “HS2 is the answer, what is the question?”? I am unconvinced that we have said, “There is £17 billion to be spent, how best can we spend it?” I did not give the Minister prior notice of that question, but I would appreciate it if she would indicate whether she will be willing to talk to me separately about it.

I am not a transport expert by any means. My favourite film as a child was “The Railway Children”, and my 15-year-old has told me excitedly about Maglev. That is the future, although not in our lifetime I have been told. Meanwhile, we are stuck with ancient 21st-century technology, and we have to look at what we can do now.

Hon. Members have spoken about the importance of the electrification of other lines. They have mentioned the northern hub and the east-west line. A number of colleagues who will not be affected at all by HS2 have said, “What about my line? My constituents want to get from the east coast to the west coast. What are we doing for them?”

[Mrs Villiers]

I hope that my hon. Friend appreciates that over the next five years, the coalition Government will be embarking on one of the most extensive upgrades of our existing network in modern history. There is no evidence to suggest that high-speed rail is going to squeeze out other important rail upgrades. Both are important, and both will be delivered on.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am pleased and reassured to hear that; nevertheless, in this time of great financial constraint, there is no doubt that a £17 billion project will lead to other choices not being taken.

The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) made an excellent contribution—he is clearly an expert on this matter. He spoke about a dedicated freight line. I do not wish to be a nimby, but if such a line went through my constituency, I can see the obvious merits of a dedicated freight line that I cannot see having looking carefully at HS2.

[Kelvin Hopkins]

The hon. Lady made a good point about high-speed trains having to go in a straight line. That gives them certain rigidities that do not apply to normal passenger routes up to 130 mph, or to freight trains that can manoeuvre and take tighter curves. That cannot be the case with high-speed trains. They have to go in straight lines because of the speeds involved.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point. He is right—high-speed rail has to go in a straight line and it is much more expensive to create that, which greatly limits the number of stops. I have heard it said that the line needs to go from London to Birmingham for the purpose of speed and to solve the north-south divide. I agree with those hon. Members who have said that that alone will not solve the north-south divide and that other decisions will need to be taken. We need to consider the whole of Britain. From the point of view of many constituencies along the way between London and Birmingham, if the line were to be made viable with interim stops, so that there were some sharing of the benefit, it would be more attractive.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

No one would claim that high-speed rail on its own could solve the north-south divide. I do not think that anyone in the Chamber, including my right hon. Friend the Minister, would attempt to do that. However, will my hon. Friend admit that the creation of 40,000 jobs—that is KPMG’s estimate—in the north-west, north-east and Yorkshire as a result of high-speed rail would contribute to it? She said that other projects could be equally effective in helping to solve the north-south divide. Perhaps she will say which of those she would put her money on. Finally, three or four hon. Members have made the point that incremental improvements in rail are very effective in the short term. That is correct, but we cannot just make incremental improvements for ever—at some point, the Government have to call it.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. However, I am not of the old USSR view that we should just do public project after public project for the sake of creating jobs. There needs to be a clear rationale for having the high-speed line in the first place. Any project needs to stand on its own merits and not be done just because it creates jobs, so I do not agree with my hon. Friend in that respect.

I have seen evidence—I hope that the Minister will comment on it—that the west coast main line, through incremental improvements that would not cause disruption, could come very close to providing the same increase in capacity as HS2. My central point is that that would be a much cheaper and less disruptive alternative means of achieving the same improvements in our rail infrastructure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Horwood]

Supply and demand on the railways clearly do not work in favour of the customer. If the Government had not taken a realistic approach to fares, as well as to public support for the railways, some of that critical investment in the railway’s future would have been lost. That, too, would in the end have damaged the interests of customers.

It is obviously regrettable that any fares have to rise at all. We all want to see them fall. Indeed, that Liberal Democrat aspiration was included in our manifesto. However, we must recognise that the Labour party has left us with an annual overspend that would have swallowed the Department for Transport’s budget many times over. We have to be realistic about the need to invest in that kind of environment.

The Select Committee made some important points about the security of that investment programme. Some of those programmes have been maintained. The Minister will know that I am going to mention one project that I think she maintains was not agreed but which I consistently maintain had been agreed, which is the redoubling of the Swindon to Kemble line. It was given enormous support by the Welsh Assembly, local councils, Labour MPs from south Wales and Swindon, Tory MPs from the counties between, and Liberal Democrats from Cheltenham, Bristol and Cardiff—and probably Chippenham.

The redoubling of that short stretch of line would have an enormous impact on the reliability of all the routes that serve those areas and constituencies. It would also be important to the resilience of the network in the west of England, particularly in the event of interruptions to cross-Severn services. Once again, I urge the Minister to look down the departmental sofa to see if any pennies can be found to secure that one project. It is a shame, but it is virtually the only railway project that was agreed under the previous Government that is not going forward.

The Select Committee report rightly talked about the value of rail enhancements, including many local projects, and stressed that they were as important as many of the larger projects. The importance of the right decision-making methodology was also mentioned. My hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames) made some excellent points about the need for a long-term strategic view and for joined-up planning in that respect. However, environmental concerns now take an even greater part in that methodology.

Passenger experience, too, is important. When it comes to franchise reform, it is important that we do not use only the basic metrics, such as punctuality; we should also consider the quality of passenger experience on some of our railway services. I would nominate leg room as being one of the most important. Passenger experience should play a much greater part not only in the awarding of franchises but in their maintenance and, if necessary, their recall when services and standards fall. It is also important that regional balance is considered. Many Members have made similar points. Some of the specific medium to long-term priorities identified in the report were equally important, and the points were all well made. I am an unashamed supporter of high-speed rail as is the Liberal Democrat party. The time scales involved are quite mind boggling. We can reassure some hon. Members about the investment involved, because it is spread over a long period of time.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Is the hon. Gentleman an unashamed supporter of HS2, or is he an unashamed supporter of dramatically increasing the amount of capacity on the west coast main line?

[Martin Horwood]

Both actually. The importance of High Speed 2 is not simply related to the stretch to Birmingham. If we consider the ultimate plan, which is to link London and Scotland, and then Scotland and Europe, by high speed rail, with another link to Wales and the west, we can see that it will compete holistically with aviation—I have already mentioned that aviation traffic tends to drop by 80% on routes covered by high speed rail—and cars. As people shift from conventional rail to high-speed rail, which happens and is an environmental issue because high-speed rail is more energy intensive, the likelihood is that their places will be taken by people abandoning car journeys as traffic becomes more competitive.

[Andrea Leadsom]

rose—

[Martin Horwood]

I am a little wary of the time, so I will plough on. I endorse the view that we need a balance in railway investment between not only Manchester but the whole of the north of England and London and the south-east. I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham about the need for a rebalancing in favour of the west and Wales. When we enter the next control period, it is important that we bear in mind such balances.

Electrification, which was raised by the Select Committee, is an important issue, especially in the context of the Great Western main line. We need to be wary about presenting the commitment to electrify as far as Newbury and Oxford as any kind of cut. That project will continue until 2018, so to look beyond that is already well into the next Parliament. The Labour party committed itself to 20% cuts in its submissions to the comprehensive spending review across unprotected Departments, so if extra and faster investment in electrification were to happen, it would be interesting to see what cuts would be made to pay for it.

We must be wary of the perception that all the investment is working its way out from London. If I were to suggest that we face a rise in rail fares across the entire network, constituents living in Wales or Bristol would not see a great return on that rise. However, someone who is living in, say, Witney, would be closer to one of the stations that would be electrified—Didcot parkway or Oxford—and they might get a very real and rapid return on their increased rail fares. We have to be wary about the perception that all the benefits are being delivered first to London and the south-east.

The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) made some important points about signalling technology. My hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham mentioned the European rail and traffic management system, and I raise an alarm about that. I urge the Minister to examine the experience of Londoners when the ERTMS was introduced on the tube system. She should perhaps take some advice on how well the system works.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

It is open to the train operators to lease additional capacity if they so wish, and they may well be interested in exploring the option that the hon. Gentleman outlines.

Substantial work is under way on the strategic freight network, and I have repeatedly paid tribute to the work done on that by the previous Administration. I emphasise that rail freight plays a really significant part in our strategy for reducing carbon emissions and relieving congestion, and that is why the coalition has prioritised investment in projects such as the Felixstowe-Nuneaton gauge clearance.

The hon. Gentleman would like to see a dedicated freight line. I know his enthusiasm for that project and am always happy to engage with him on it, but the freight industry as a whole prioritises the projects in the strategic freight network, rather than a dedicated line. If the hon. Gentleman can make the case for going ahead with something like that in the future, I and my colleagues will of course be prepared to listen.

On the regional balance, in making project funding decisions it is important to take account of the needs of different areas. Although the business case for rail investment in the south-east can often be stronger because of the sheer volumes of passengers, assessment of the business case is just one element in the decision-making process and we can, and do, have regard to other factors, including the appropriate balance of funding between different parts of the country. It is worth recognising that improvements in London and the south-east can yield benefits for the economy as a whole, but the north of England will benefit directly from a whole range of programmes that are under way, including faster journey times between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds, additional carriages, electrification, station improvements and important upgrades on the east coast main line, as well as the extension of light rail in Manchester and Newcastle, and in the longer term the north will benefit massively from our high-speed rail plans. The tough decisions made in the spending review mean that we are able to provide more than £1.5 billion for local authority major schemes in the period up to 2014-15, and that is a larger amount than the average annual Department for Transport spend on such schemes over the past 10 years.

High-speed rail has been a big issue in the debate this afternoon, as ever. My hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) spoke with her usual passion and articulacy on her concerns about high-speed rail, and I welcome the input of all colleagues on this issue as it is one of the most important parts of the coalition’s programme to improve our railways. Very soon we will start a major consultation on our strategy for a Y-shaped High Speed 2 network, and I can assure the shadow rail Minister, the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), that we are committed to taking this railway to the north of England, in two delivery phases. Opponents of HS2 say that it will not have a big impact on the north-south divide, the important response to which is that they should look at the extensive support for the project in the north of England, and also at the rest of Europe, where cities such as Lille have been transformed as a result of the connectivity that can come with a high-speed link to a capital city.

Demand for travel between our cities is expected to increase significantly, and there is an industry consensus that the west coast route will be full to capacity within little more than a decade. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys indicated that there was some contention about passenger growth figures, but everyone accepts that there will be significant growth on the west coast main line.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am afraid that I really cannot. I do apologise.

We will face severe congestion and overcrowding on those routes in years to come, unless we act now to begin the process of delivering that capacity.

On the alternatives, upgrades of an existing line, even extensive ones, could deliver only half a new line’s capacity benefit and would be more expensive. My hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire asked whether 12-car trains would deliver the equivalent capacity: no, they absolutely would not. The hon. Member for Luton North asked whether new signalling would deliver it, and the answer is the same. We are already introducing new capacity on existing lines, and there comes a point at which incremental changes do not deliver the upgrade needed. Moreover, High Speed 2 will deliver the benefits of capacity released on the existing network, with major benefits for places such as Milton Keynes, Luton, Northampton and Peterborough, and also for freight operators.

I sincerely believe that careful mitigation can address many of the most serious local impacts, and I know that my hon. Friend will continue to fight hard for her constituents, who might be affected by the line. We welcome their involvement in the consultation process on which we are about to embark, to ensure that we get the right answers on high-speed rail and that we listen to the views of people affected by it.

After 20 years of discussion, Crossrail is finally going ahead. I hope that that answers those concerned that High Speed 2 will swallow up all the funding available for rail. The hon. Gentleman complained that the Hitchin flyover might not go ahead as a result of the funding pressure on high-speed rail. It is under way, or will be shortly, as it is in an investment programme to which the Government have committed. We have confirmed that the Thameslink programme will proceed in full, despite anxiety that it might not. Some 1,200 new carriages will be delivered, almost doubling the number of north-south trains through the capital at peak times.

On the Derby factory and the procurement of the Thameslink trains, the hon. Member for Glasgow South tempted me to depart from the EU’s procurement rules. I fear that I would find myself falling foul of the European Communities Act 1972 if I did, so I will not advocate failing to abide by our treaty obligations, but I can assure the House that bids from UK-based operators will be considered carefully and assessed fairly, objectively and equally.

The Government expect an additional 650 carriages in several of our major cities by 2014. We expect services to be strengthened into Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham, Bristol—to answer the concerns of the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames)—London Paddington and London Waterloo. In addition, new Thameslink and Crossrail rolling stock will enable the redeployment of hundreds more existing electric carriages, strengthening the case for further electrification of our network. I hope that that responds to the concerns expressed about the quality of rolling stock in the north. The hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) rightly raised concerns about the quality of that rolling stock and the notorious Pacer trains. We believe that our programme of new rolling stock will help address those concerns.

As the Chancellor confirmed in his Budget speech, lines between Liverpool, Manchester, Preston and Blackpool will be electrified. The redeployment of electric rolling stock to those routes will in turn free up hundreds of diesel units, which will be available for train operators to lease after 2015. In November, the Secretary of State announced that Network Rail will electrify routes on the Great Western main line from London to Didcot, Oxford and Newbury. We expect to make an announcement shortly on the further electrification of that line. We have decided to press ahead with plans to buy a new fleet of trains to replace most of the high-speed trains operating on the Great Western and east coast lines. We have narrowed down the options to two, and we hope to give the House more information in the near future.

The hon. Member for Luton South and others were concerned about stations. We are continuing with the £150 million national stations improvement programme and the £370 million access for all programme, including £2.3 million to be spent on a scheme at Luton.

High Speed Rail

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Monday 20th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

Before the right hon. Gentleman describes the proposal as preposterous, he should look at what has been published and consider it carefully. It is a carefully worked-out engineering solution that provides a value-for-money answer for people who believe that it is essential for trains to run directly from the midlands and the north of England, through the channel tunnel, and onwards to the European high-speed network.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the impact on his constituency, which arises largely from the planned expansion of Euston station. Yes, there will be a number of property demolitions and replacements. It is planned to replace the properties that I have seen alongside the railway in his constituency with new properties. Some of the existing properties date from the 1920s and 1930s, and could do with being replaced. As he said, part of a small park will also be required.

The detailed design for the replacement Euston station has not yet been completed, but it is possible that it will be largely below ground level. At present, a large piece of the structure effectively creates a barrier down the middle of the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency, separating east from west. Camden council is keen for that barrier to go, and for a natural pattern of streets to be opened up at the back of Euston station. I hope that we shall be able to facilitate that through this project, and to bring a positive benefit to the people of Camden.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is well aware that my constituency has been severely blighted by the proposed route of the high speed railway, and he has received about 500 letters from me explaining quite how devastating that is for my constituents, so I shall not dwell on that now. Let me ask him, however, whether this is really the best value for money and the best solution to the undoubted need for new transport infrastructure. In particular, is the demand for seats really going to grow by 3% every year, as has been forecast to make the economic case? Is it really true that people do nothing when they are sitting on a train, and that that is dead time? There is also a lack of connectivity: there is nothing in it for anyone who is under the track.

Let me say finally—as you are looking at me crossly, Mr. Deputy Speaker—that there is a risk that other trains will be axed later to make way for HS 2 trains on the platforms. I should be grateful for the Secretary of State’s comments on that.

[Mr Hammond]

I can reassure my hon. Friend on the last point. Other trains will not be axed to make way for HS 2 trains. This will be a dedicated high-speed passenger line, and it will not affect other railways.

My hon. Friend asked about the impact on South Northamptonshire. Obviously I am well aware of her concerns: I spend most Sunday afternoons signing letters to her and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan). We have gone to great lengths to try to minimise the impacts on my hon. Friend’s constituents and the communities she serves. If she looks at the maps and plans we have published today, she will see that we have been able to achieve a reduction in the impact, and I hope that, during the course of the consultation, I will be able to engage with local communities about the mitigation measures that will be put in place, including extensive planting, bunding and sound barriers to reduce that impact further. On the question about growth in passenger numbers, the model the Office of Rail Regulation uses is based on demand for travel growing broadly in line with the economy and all the evidence suggests that that is the case. Those growth forecasts are robust and we expect them to be achieved.

High Speed 2

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for clarifying that point.

If, in time, an extension of the network to Scotland was to proceed, there would be a benefit of nearly £20 billion to its economy. HS 2 believes that the benefits of high-speed rail far outweigh the estimated costs, with the project yielding more than £2 of benefit for every £1 of cost.

There are clearly several arguments in favour of high-speed rail. It is a possible solution to the expected increase in passenger numbers, it will undoubtedly slash journey times and it could allow a much better integration of existing rail services regionally, nationally and internationally. However, we have to take on board the fact that not everyone is in favour of high-speed rail. I accept that, as the hon. Members for Wycombe and for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) said, some communities will be impacted through the construction and operation of high-speed rail. The Labour Government were mindful of the fact that, in making proposals for a route, there has to be an attempt to minimise local impacts while achieving the wider objectives.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there would be merit in considering ways to give benefits to those communities impacted by the track—for example, by having spurs off the new tracks that offered interim stops on occasion?

[Andrew Gwynne]

That might be one solution to such concerns.

We need to ensure that people are fully consulted on changes that could affect their areas, and not only on the Chilterns or Buckinghamshire but, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) said, on Euston and Primrose Hill. Indeed, my right hon. Friend made some powerful points.

The coalition Government must have meaningful, extensive and detailed consultation, particularly with the local communities affected, and they must be keen to listen and to balance the concerns of those communities, many of which we have heard about today in this debate. No route in a project of this significance will be without controversy, which is why there absolutely must be adequate consultation of the affected communities, together with consultation on the exceptional hardship scheme for those whose properties may be affected by proximity to the preferred route.

May I ask the Minister how detailed the consultation process about the plan for the new route will be? Will it give us a detailed account of the streets, properties and landholdings that will be directly affected by the planning process? Significant time will be needed to ensure that consultation is properly conducted and considered. I welcome the proposed exceptional hardship scheme for those whose properties may be directly affected. What time scales do the Government have to introduce provisions for owners of properties nearby the planned route that may not necessarily be directly affected by the construction? Finally, can the Minister tell me how many applications have been received so far for the exceptional hardship scheme?

The Labour Government proposed the high-speed rail that would link London to Birmingham and eventually to Manchester, Leeds and beyond, which is the widely backed “Y”-shaped network. I welcome the fact that the coalition Government, after a few wobbles, have come out and supported that network instead of their unworkable “S”- shape. That was perhaps not so much a U-turn as a “Y-turn”, although my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras has now thrown an “H”-shape into the mix.

I turn now to some specific issues. What consideration will be given to ensuring that the high-speed rail network is available to rail freight, which is an increasingly important part of the railway jigsaw? Does the Minister plan to have further talks with the Scottish Executive about possible network extension to Scotland in due course? Will she outline the time scale that the Government envisage for commencing construction of the first part of the network? Has her Department begun work on preparing the hybrid Bill that would have to be presented to Parliament to make the new network a reality in this Parliament?

The high-speed rail project could be of national strategic significance to this country, and I hope that we will be able to work across the House to secure a rail link that is worthy of a great country in the 21st century.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

In the brief time that I have available, I will try to run through the points made by right hon. and hon. Members, and I will write to them about any points that time prevents me from covering now.

I am very grateful to have support for high-speed rail from across the House, across parties and across the country. That support is very welcome. There was a particularly vocal presence in the debate today from Yorkshire, which was particularly welcome.

However, we recognise that it is vitally important to think with great care about the local environmental impact of the project. Of course, we had some very comprehensive accounts of the potential impact, first from my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) and then from my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles). It is important that they are here in Westminster Hall and able to put their constituents’ point of view.

I strongly believe that careful mitigation measures can eliminate the most intrusive local impacts of high-speed rail. Modern engineering techniques give us an expanding range of ways to use sensitive design to make transport infrastructure easier to live with and less intrusive; a number of Members have referred to the example of High Speed 1, where that mitigation work has been done with some success in many areas.

I believe that it is possible to find a solution that is balanced and fair; that generates the significant economic benefits of high-speed rail for the country as a whole, and that is fair to the local communities that are directly affected by whatever line of route is ultimately chosen. Hopefully, this debate will take us closer to finding a solution and choosing that route.

We intend the consultation to be inclusive, wide-ranging and comprehensive, providing a range of opportunities for Members and their constituents to go through these kinds of concerns about the impact on landscapes and communities. Our consultation is designed to run for about five months, which is longer than the statutory minimum. We take this process very seriously, because we know the gravity of the concern that is felt in some communities.

The business case for high-speed rail was discussed by a number of Members. We are absolutely confident about the very significant benefits that a line from London to Birmingham would generate and we believe that those economic benefits are even more significant when they are linked to a “Y”-shaped high-speed rail network that connects the capital with Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

I welcome the comments of my hon. Friends the Members for Warrington South (David Mowat) and for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker) about the importance of using transport infrastructure to try to remedy imbalances between economic prosperity in different parts of the country. There is strong local support in much of the country for high-speed rail.

In answer to the questions from a number of Members about Scotland, as the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne)—the shadow Rail Minister—has already pointed out, the “Y”-shaped network to deliver high-speed rail to Manchester and Leeds could enable us to deliver journey times to London from Edinburgh and Glasgow of about three and a half hours. There is also the issue of promoting the air-to-rail switch, which is so important to the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood). In due course, we certainly want to see a genuinely national network built, and that is why we are in regular dialogue with the Scottish Government. We are happy to work with them on establishing how we bring that network about in the future.

A number of Members have talked about the carbon impact of high-speed rail. I believe that high-speed rail can play an important role in our plans to develop a low-carbon economy, particularly by promoting the air-to-rail switch that a number of Members referred to. Even with our current energy generation mix, high-speed rail is a much lower-carbon option than flying.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe argued that the Government had overstated the expected increase in demand. He and a number of other Members sought to challenge the business case. However, there is no doubt that the benefits generated by the extension of high-speed rail to Birmingham will exceed the cost of building the line.

Furthermore, it is clear that there is already a significant crowding problem on our railways. The simple fact is that we need this new railway. Important parts of our rail network are already suffering from serious overcrowding problems. As my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) mentioned, one only needs to go to Euston on a Friday night to see how popular the railways have become. There is simply no realistic alternative that would give us the level of benefit that high-speed rail will generate.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does my right hon. Friend the Minister accept, however, that greater consideration should be given to using an existing transport corridor rather than tearing through great swathes of English countryside?

[Mrs Villiers]

It is always the case that, when efforts are made to construct these major transport projects, there are advantages to using existing transport corridors. However, sometimes using those existing corridors is simply not possible. Nevertheless, the Secretary of State for Transport asked High Speed 2 to look again at the route that it had proposed and at the environmental impact of that route. In a very short time, we will publish a package for consultation that will take on board a number of the concerns that have already been raised with the Government and with HS 2, to mitigate the environmental impact of the project.

I want to go back to the points that were made about using upgrades to the conventional rail network to relieve the capacity problem. It is simply not possible to relieve the capacity problem without a new line. Without delivering a further significant uplift in rail capacity, some of our key transport corridors will become even more overcrowded in the years to come. I strongly believe that high-speed rail is the best way to deliver that new capacity, not least because it would free up space on existing networks for more commuter, regional and freight services. My hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) mentioned that issue and I think that there is potential for his constituents to benefit from the extra space on the west coast main line that will be released by high-speed rail. Dramatically improving connectivity between a number of our most important cities has the potential to change the economic geography of the country.

As for the environmental impact, I recognise that our plans for high-speed rail are already having an impact on some communities, even in advance of the final decisions on the project. That is why we have launched an exceptional hardship scheme, to assist those with an urgent need to sell their properties and move home.

The Secretary of State has made it clear that, as and when any final route is chosen, we will put measures in place to address blight, and those measures will go well beyond the requirements of statute. I say that in response to a number of points that were made about the exceptional hardship scheme. My hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire had some concerns about how the scheme was working. I was not aware of those difficulties, so if he wants to write to me about the specific issues I will be happy to look into them.

Earlier this year, the Secretary of State visited the line of route that has been recommended by HS 2 Ltd. He acknowledges the vital importance of designing a new high-speed rail line in a way that will reduce local impact where possible and that will take on board the types of points that we have heard this morning.

We fully recognise the need to balance the benefits of the high-speed rail project with the local impact on landscape and communities. In the summer, the Secretary of State instructed HS 2 to consider how best to improve its recommended route 3 to reduce any negative social and environmental impacts. An initial report has already been published that identifies a number of ways to reduce problems on the northern part of HS 2’s preferred route. That work is continuing in relation to a number of other areas of sensitivity—

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrea Leadsom Excerpts

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

Local authorities have the powers to spend the money as they wish, and if they wish to spend it on more speed cameras that is entirely within their remit. There are other ways in which lives can be saved. I have looked at what Brake says, but I disagree. Such cameras should not be a cash cow. This should not be determined by issues to do with raising tax. It should be about safety; that is the important thing.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

May I welcome my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to his new position? Does he agree with me in principle that those people whose homes have been blighted by Labour’s preferred route for high-speed rail should be fully compensated, rather than at the 85% of value as proposed by Labour?

[Mr Philip Hammond]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her question. One of the first decisions I took in my new post was to extend the consultation on the exceptional hardship scheme. That consultation closes today and we will publish our conclusions in due course.