State Pension: Working-class Women

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I had not intended to speak this afternoon, Mr Flello, because I expected the debate to be over-subscribed. I am sad that more hon. Members are not here to speak on behalf of working-class women. I have looked into the figures, and I understand that 2,410 women in my constituency are affected by the changes. The figure for the whole city of Glasgow is 23,100 women. That is no small number; it is a huge number, in a city that has had heavy industry and long-standing economic deprivation. Those women have worked damn hard for that money and they deserve the pension they thought they would get. I am hugely disappointed that successive Governments did not do more to notify them. Those who got in touch with me at my surgeries and through my office spoke of their shock that they were not told that they would not have the life they had planned for their expected retirement after working so hard in so many heavy industries for low pay, sometimes with pay discrimination. They were shocked not to be told and to find themselves without the retirement they had expected.

The number of women who have been in touch with me is nowhere near 2,410. We can all do more every day to make sure all the women affected know that we are on their side and fighting for them. I pay tribute to the WASPI campaign in Glasgow, which is doing so much to achieve that. I was proud to go to the demonstration in George Square last year, but there were not 23,000 people there that day. This is the tip of the iceberg. The women are finding out not from the Government, but through the WASPI campaign, social media, their families and friends and their own networks. That is the sad thing. The campaign is great, but it demonstrates how much these women have been let down.

One woman I must mention—or I will be in serious trouble—is my mother-in-law. She has worked all her life and has had the goalposts moved not once but twice, with loss of access to her pension for six years. She had planned and worked hard for her pension and it is hugely disappointing that the Government have left her in this situation.

[Ian Blackford]

One thing that annoys me is that the Government keep saying that no woman has suffered an increase in their pensionable age of more than 18 months. That is patently not true. As my hon. Friend has just said, some women have seen a six-year increase in their pensionable age. The Government should start telling the truth.

[Alison Thewliss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I commend his campaigning on this issue. Women have been cheated and it is entirely unfair. The Government expect many of them to seek work. I met a constituent outside Bridgeton Jobcentre a few weeks ago when campaigning against its closure. She was 62 and she was in absolute pieces because she had been called to the jobcentre. She had moved between employment support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance. She is not fit to work. She had been through a traumatic experience. Her daughter had died. She has poor physical and mental health and she told me about her pension age, which has added insult to injury. She has been through enough in her life. She deserves peace of mind and time to enjoy the retirement she should have.

Instead, at the age of 62, the Government expect that woman to go out and seek work, which, given the condition she is in, is pretty unlikely. Having spoken to her, I cannot see that many employers would consider her a good employee prospect, given her circumstances and the experience she has had in life. What employer will say, “Yes, we will take her on. She may be here for a couple of years, if that, because her health is poor, so she might not be here for long.”? Sadly, she is not a good prospect. She has worked all her life and she is tired. She is done and she deserves the time and peace she thought she would have. She deserves a dignified retirement.

Life expectancy in the east end of Glasgow is significantly lower than in other parts of the country and other parts of Glasgow. On the train from Bridgeton to the west end, there is a huge gap of eight to 10 years in the life expectancy of people on the same train line because the heavy industry and its legacy has meant that some women have suffered ill health all their lives. Some have suffered as a result of the industries their husbands worked in. Women were expected to launder their husband’s clothes and have suffered asbestos-related conditions. That has not been recognised well enough. These women have worked very hard and they deserve a dignified retirement.

[Mims Davies (Eastleigh) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) on securing this important debate. I, too, have WASPI women in my constituency with poorer health and shorter lives who are worried about their future and have health inequalities or caring issues. The Government have looked at transitional arrangements and want to provide dignity in old age. However, I am slightly concerned that the tone of this debate is writing off women at the age of 62 from having hope and opportunity. I have met some great women in my constituency surgeries who, with help and support, have found opportunities. I am looking for some balance in the argument, much as I have great sympathy with many of my constituents.

[Alison Thewliss]

The hon. Lady is correct. Some women are able to work, want to work and do work. Some do not want to retire, but want to keep working, and that is great for them. I knew women when I was a councillor for eight years before becoming an MP who want to work, are part of their community and want to contribute. That is fine if they are able to, but not all woman are able to. We must think of them and look after them all the more, because they have given so much during their lives.

[Chi Onwurah]

The hon. Lady is making an excellent contribution, but my intervention relates to the previous one. I have had two jobs that I have really enjoyed—Member of Parliament and engineer—and I hope to continue working into my seventies. Does the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mims Davies) agree that my mother’s generation and the WASPI woman generation did not have our opportunities? Most of the Members of Parliament here are women. The previous generation did not have the opportunity to build up the sort of pension fund that we have and they did not have the opportunities for careers that give fulfilment without manual effort late in life. We should recognise that.

[Alison Thewliss]

The hon. Lady is absolutely correct. Some women have had opportunities stifled throughout their lives. They were not given the chance to go off and have the careers they wanted. My grandmother was forced to leave school. I have her school report and she was one of the brightest in her class, but her family said she had to go out and work and not stay on at school or go on to further education.

That has been the life path for many women. It is what they have done. During their working lives they have not spent as much time as they would have liked with their children, but they saw their retirement as an opportunity to get that back, to look after their grandchildren and to enjoy that experience instead of being forced to go out to work at all hours to try to bring in a wage. The Government should at least acknowledge the impact of that, particularly on families in poorer areas where childcare is not as available or is too expensive. These are women who were hoping to make a contribution to their families, providing childcare so that their children could go out to work and bring in an income.

We need to think about the contribution those women have made to society in the round and the debt we owe them. I urge the Government in the Budget in a few weeks to see what transitional arrangements can be put in place and what can be done to give those women the fair retirement they deserve.

Jobcentre Plus Offices: Closure

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

No, it is not the hollowing out of public services; it is finding the best way to deliver services to our jobseekers at the most cost-effective price for the taxpayer.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

The proposal to cut the back-office functions at Corunna House and Portcullis House in my constituency came on the back of the proposal to shut the Jobcentre Plus office in Bridgeton, one of eight being closed in the city of Glasgow—and before the consultation which closes tomorrow had even concluded. This proposal is a bolt from the blue, with no consultation with agencies in the city or with the Scottish Government. What do this Government have against the people of Glasgow?

[Caroline Nokes]

The hon. Lady will have heard me say earlier that my hon. Friend the Minister for Employment was in Musselburgh just two weeks ago, and she will remember that the claimant count in her constituency is down 42% since 2010.

DWP Estate

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2017 Westminster Hall

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I thoroughly congratulate the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) on her fantastic speech and on securing the debate.

The Government must feel as if they are in a film. I certainly feel as if I am in “Groundhog Day”, because we keep repeating the same arguments. We will be back again and again until the Minister and the DWP stop, listen and recognise the error of their decision. In the last debate before Christmas, the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) said, like a modern-day Arnold Schwarzenegger, “We will be back.” Here we are again, and we will not tire of making the same arguments, because we are right and the Government and the DWP are wrong. We know our areas, we know the people and the geography, and we know the challenges they face.

Glasgow East is not a dot on Google Maps; it is multiple communities with amazing characteristics but many unique challenges. The Government’s plans to rip jobcentres from the people who need them most, in some of the most deprived areas of the country, are bereft of logic, bereft of evidence and completely bereft of compassion. If the jobcentre closures go ahead in Glasgow, 50% of our jobcentres will close—half of them! That is in spite of the DWP’s plan to reduce its estate by only 20% across the country. Proportionally, Glasgow is being hit hardest. I am at peril of repeating myself here—groundhog day again—because, like many of my hon. Friends, I raised precisely that point in a previous Westminster Hall debate and in a number of meetings with the Minister before Christmas. No adequate answer has been forthcoming on why Glasgow is being singled out for such swingeing and disproportionate cuts. The only thing close to an answer was the statement that the DWP believes that Glasgow

“is in a unique position within the DWP…Estate”.

I cannot but feel that the Government believe that Glasgow is in a unique position to be useful in an ideologically driven cost-cutting exercise—a test subject, so to speak. Well, they have picked the wrong fight with the right people, because, as I am sure they are fast learning, we are not the strong silent types.

For entirely different reasons, I agree that Glasgow is, for want of a better phrase, in a unique position. Almost half of Glasgow’s residents live in areas that are among the 20% most deprived in Scotland. The city has been labelled the jobless capital of Europe. That is not a title that I claim with any satisfaction, but unfortunately it is the reality. Just today, we have all received the most recent figures on unemployment. In my constituency, it is at 4.9%, which is more than double the national average and is the 36th highest of the 650 constituencies in the UK. The so-called “unique” position that Glasgow finds itself in, through no fault of its own, illustrates that the UK Government should be doing more to help my constituents, not less. Instead, if the proposals go ahead, they will affect over 74,000 people across Glasgow and will create more barriers to employment and support for people seeking work, rather than breaking them down.

In the previous debate, I raised the issue of territorialism and the historical gang culture as unique issues in the east end of Glasgow. The Minister and the DWP flippantly dismissed those serious concerns by pointing out that Shettleston served as a youth hub jobcentre for four years. They ignored the extensive preparation and engagement work that was done with the police, stakeholders and the jobcentre. I said that the same work had not been done in this situation, when it is more critical, given the ages of the claimants, the historical nature of gang violence and the levels of unemployment among the mainly men involved.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that Ministers trumpeted the youth hub as a success, but I have had discussions with local organisations on the ground and they pulled away from participation in the hub because they were not prepared to submit to using conditionality and clients making young people travel every day for something they were not obliged to do.

[Natalie McGarry]

That is a fantastic point, which I no longer need to make. The response from the Government that, in extreme cases, remote sign-ons would work will not satisfy me or the people I represent. Like the hon. Lady, I have gone further and spoken to former senior members of Shettleston jobcentre, who were there at the time. They told me that not only impact assessments, but multiple risk assessments were carried out to prepare for that. That experiment has failed. It is not here now for the reasons that the hon. Lady mentioned, and also because, I am told, the resources at Shettleston were not adequate for the demand, yet Shettleston will now replace three jobcentres. It beggars belief. I will not be papped off or shooed away on this. I want answers and I demand that that is properly considered as part of the consultation.

Another barrier is additional transport and the costs and logistics of it for the people we represent in Glasgow. If the plans go ahead, many of our constituents who are already on meagre incomes will incur additional costs and extra travel with no confirmed support from the DWP. With all due respect, the Government’s response has been woeful thus far and many questions remain unanswered. Does the Minister honestly and wholeheartedly believe that this situation is fair? Given that two thirds of households in deprived areas of Glasgow do not have access to a car, what assessment has she made of the impact this decision will have on jobseekers reliant on public transport?

If the plans go ahead, will the Minister ensure our constituents are reimbursed for extra travel costs? Will she give us a commitment today that no jobseeker will be sanctioned for delays caused by public transport? What assessment has been made of the impact the closures will have on additional travelling for people with caring responsibilities and those with a claimant commitment? What provisions will be made to assist people with mobility problems and people with caring responsibilities? Why did the Government fail to conduct and publish an equality impact assessment before the consultation period began? Such an assessment is surely key to informing those who participate in the consultation. Does the Minister not agree that the closures would undermine the Government’s commitment to halving the disability employment gap by 2020, and what assessment has been made of that?

Another issue that the Government must seriously address, but have thus far failed to, is the increase in demand for the reduced number of jobcentres in Glasgow. The jobcentre in Shettleston currently serves 1,025 people. However, when we add in the caseloads of Parkhead, Bridgeton and Easterhouse, that figure more than triples to 3,210. Shettleston would become one of the largest jobcentres in the entire UK in one of the areas with the highest levels of deprivation and unemployment. As I have said before, it would add insult to injury if the Government forced people in Glasgow to travel further at additional cost only to be inconvenienced in longer queues to receive a poorer service. What assessment has the Minister made of the potential delays for service users? What provisions would be put in place to ensure the quality of service did not deteriorate under the plans for closure?

The harm resulting from the Government’s plans to close the jobcentre in Easterhouse is potentially eye-watering. The communities of Easterhouse are strong and resilient, but that does not mitigate the impact that the closures would have on them. Isolated on the edge of the city, suffering from poor public transport and feeling the effects of high unemployment, Easterhouse cannot afford to lose its jobcentre. The plans destroy any kind of joined-up logic. Moreover, the journey from the jobcentre in Easterhouse to the jobcentre in Shettleston, if one of my constituents takes the 60 or 60A bus, which are the only buses available for that journey, is just over 3 miles. Yet Easterhouse has not been included in the consultation—perhaps Google did not identify it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margaret Greenwood]

Thank you. There have been several comments on the level of unemployment in the area. The latest claimant count shows that 5,810 people are registered as unemployed at the eight jobcentres threatened with closure. I would be interested to hear what will happen when those centres close. I understand that the remaining jobcentres in Glasgow will have to deal with twice the volume of claimants as a result. That is especially a concern for the Shettleston jobcentre, which will take on the case load from three of the jobcentres that will close. Can the Minister provide us with a breakdown of the expected increase in case loads for those jobcentres that will remain open? What will be done to help the DWP staff who have to deal with that increased workload?

[Alison Thewliss]

Does the hon. Lady appreciate that the jobcentres at Easterhouse, Parkhead and Bridgeton all have citizens advice bureaux nearby and other support services wrapped around those jobcentres? The Shettleston jobcentre does not, and that will make it even more difficult for clients to seek help when they need it.

[Margaret Greenwood]

That is an important point. Several Members have spoken about the difficulties people face when they approach a jobcentre. I have spoken to people in my constituency who feel frightened and intimidated about going to the jobcentre, so having that kind of support is invaluable. It is particular invaluable given that for universal credit people are being asked to make and manage claims online. Many find that very challenging.

In that regard, can the Minister update us on the work she has done to identify the number of people who struggle to fill in those online applications and maintain their claims online? I know the 2011 skills for life survey found that 14.5% of people have below entry-level skills for word processing, 30% had below entry-level skills for email, and 38% had below entry-level skills for spreadsheets. I have taught on a programme to get women back to work, and I have worked alongside adult learners who have difficulty reading and writing and even handling things about their name and address. What is the Minister doing to support those people, particularly with the move to the digital environment?

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Nokes]

The claimants must come first in the service we deliver to them. We must also deliver value to taxpayers in Scotland and across the rest of the UK.

The Department’s services always have and always will adapt to social trends, and it is right that we reflect the digital revolution. These proposals are the result of careful analysis and planning. I appreciate the concerns of the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West about the proposed closures, and I thank her again for securing the debate. I think the rationale for the proposals is clear. The overall number of people claiming the main out-of-work benefits has fallen by more than 1.1 million. The changes are about reducing floor space, not the number of dedicated frontline staff helping claimants back into work.

[Alison Thewliss]

There are six minutes left.

[Nadine Dorries (in the Chair)]

Order. There are six minutes left because the official spokesman for the Scottish National party did not take his full 10 minutes to speak. I call Margaret Ferrier.

DWP Policies and Low-income Households

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I feel as if we are going round in circles and not getting anywhere with this Government. We are not getting the answers that the people of Glasgow deserve when it comes to the jobcentre closures. My colleagues and I have asked for answers, tabling a whole range of parliamentary questions, but what we have found out is that this Government know nothing.

The Government cannot tell us how long the bus journey will take, because they have never done it. There is no record of any Government Minister ever having visited Bridgeton jobcentre. The Government do not know how many employment and support allowance claimants there are, and they do not know the number of income support claimants, because they cannot provide the data. They have said that there are 253 universal credit claimants, but that appears to be the depth of their knowledge on this issue.

The Government cannot tell us what the catchment area is for the jobcentres in Glasgow, which is a crucial point. It is not the distance between two jobcentres that counts; it is the distance between where somebody lives and how they actually get to Shettleston. Lots of people will find that incredibly difficult. If they are in Bridgeton, it means two buses, but if they are in other parts, the journey will be even further and the buses will be even more infrequent. This will impact on people’s ability to get to the jobcentre and it will impact on sanctions. Can the Minister tell me whether the time that people have to travel will be taken into account in the claimant commitment, or will it not count as time when they are seeking jobs?

I have campaigned on another issue since it was announced in the summer Budget of 2015. The Government do not know how the two-child policy, which will come into force for universal credit claimants in April, will work. They expect vulnerable women to confess to DWP employees that their third child has been the result of rape, but they do not know how it will work. The consultation on this matter closed on 27 November, but from the DWP there has been not a peep since. We do not know how it will work. Parliamentary questions that I have lodged indicate that they have not even spoken to the trade unions about this issue and how their members will be asked to implement a very sensitive, difficult, personal and traumatic policy that will impact on the dignity of women’s lives. The Government do not know how that will work.

The Government do not know the impact of their policies, because they refuse to admit the truth. They refuse to admit that benefit delays are causing people to go hungry, and causing people to go to food banks. On Friday, I visited the fuel bank at the Glasgow SE—South East—foodbank. People do not even have fuel. They do not have electricity in their houses, because they have no money as a result of those benefit delays, but the Government will not admit that that is the truth of the situation. They are also in denial if they think that the national living wage is for everyone: it is not for those aged under 25. Under-25s have the same outgoings as everyone else, but they are not entitled to the same wage. It is disgraceful.

This is not a Government who work for everyone, and they should listen to the people who are actually affected.

Jobcentre Closures: Glasgow

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I am glad to be able to speak in this debate, Mr Hollobone, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) for bringing us all together.

The letter that the Minister sent to MPs said that the plans were

“right for the city, its customers and our people”,

but I see scant evidence from the people I know in Glasgow that the decision would be any of those three things. The decision seems to have been made entirely in isolation by DWP officials, without speaking to anybody else in the city. They have certainly not spoken to stakeholders in Glasgow, Glasgow City Council, which has condemned it, or the Scottish Government, who are not keen on it at all either. They have not spoken to the most important local partner in Bridgeton, Clyde Gateway, which has done a huge amount in the area to reduce the overt claimant count from 39% in 2009 to 28% in 2015. They know that that is due to the huge amount of work it has done in the area to improve the life chances of people in that community, but it has not been consulted. Clyde Gateway is a linchpin for the community in terms of economic regeneration, and it needs to be part of the process.

In Bridgeton, around the corner from the jobcentre, there is a citizens advice bureau, which does a huge amount of work to support constituents. The credit union is across the road. The Olympia is right there, with its newly refurbished library, which has computers and classes that help to support local constituents. The Glasgow Women’s Library, which helps vulnerable women with literacy and to improve their self-esteem, is around the corner.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that another vulnerable group that we must take into account is disabled people? It is absolutely disgraceful that people with disability will have much further to travel to find jobs. Has any impact assessment been conducted in that regard? The Government have pledged to halve the disability employment gap; surely these plans undermine that policy.

[Alison Thewliss]

I absolutely agree: the plans entirely undermine that ambition. Bridgeton CAB has been collecting evidence for the public consultation—my area is one of the few that will be consulted on—and it is very concerned that people accessing disability advisers will have much further to travel and that it will be much harder for them to get there.

To touch on transport, the Minister has stated that it takes 11 minutes by car to get from Bridgeton to Shettleston, but that entirely ignores the fact that nearly two thirds of households in the most deprived communities of Glasgow do not have access to a car, so they will need to get two buses. The Minister reckoned that it would take people 29 minutes to get there, but the two buses do not arrive in a neat 29-minute slot; one arrives much more regularly than the other. People trying to get there who have children to drop off at nursery or to pick up from school will find it more difficult to fit that into their day.

The consultation that Bridgeton CAB has done this morning highlighted that the time, date and frequency of appointments can be changed. The bus that someone got last week that worked out okay may not be the one they get this week, because the appointment time has changed. That adds a great deal of uncertainty and stress to the situation, because people are faced with the prospect of being sanctioned for being late. That is a huge fear for people. My experience in my constituency office—this is also the experience of the citizens advice bureau and other agencies in Glasgow—is that people are afraid to challenge even the first sanction. They do not want to get into conflict with people from the jobcentre, so they are not challenging the sanction. They think that they will be able to ride it out, but then something else happens at another time and they end up losing their benefits for even longer, which has a huge impact on their family income.

The fact that people have very limited means also means that they will be walking from one jobcentre to the other. It could take nearly 50 minutes to go from Bridgeton jobcentre to the Shettleston jobcentre. That has another impact. People are not walking from one jobcentre to another. That brings me on to my next point. We need to see in the consultation the catchment areas for the different jobcentres. People might be walking from Calton to Shettleston, or Dalmarnock to Shettleston. They could be going any distance to get there. We do not know what the distance will be. We do not have a full idea of what the actual impact on our communities will be without that information.

That is in huge contrast to the types of consultations that Glasgow City Council puts out for its schools. If it wants to close a school or move it somewhere else, the council puts out a map showing where each school pupil lives, or where the people travelling to the new school and new catchment area live, which makes the impact of changes on individuals very clear. We have not had that information at all.

The consultation process has a particular weakness. The Minister has told us that posters and leaflets will go out in the jobcentres, but the Department holds all the details of every single claimant. It could do a whole lot more to contact every claimant and ask them what the impact on each individual will be. I urge the Minister to do that and to come to Glasgow when he is in Scotland, so that he can come on the bus with us to see what the journey is actually like.

Child Poverty

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for obtaining this important and timely debate and for his sterling work in pursuing the issue of child poverty. His written parliamentary questions and private Member’s Bill have been important in keeping child poverty on the agenda and making sure that, although it is the last day of term here, we are debating a subject crucial to the children in our constituencies.

At this time families are preparing for Christmas at home, getting the tree ready and wrapping presents, but that is something not available to everyone. Some of my constituents recently got in touch for assistance because they have no money for Christmas presents for their children. Such families are dependent on the charity of organisations such as Glasgow’s Spirit of Christmas, the Salvation Army, and groups working in the Gorbals. There are many voluntary groups in constituencies which people have to approach to ask for gifts for their children. I cannot imagine the heartbreak it must cause parents to know that they just do not have the money—that Santa will not come to their door and their kids will wake up on Christmas morning with perhaps nothing at all.

The way those families have now been stigmatised in this country and been allowed to reach such a situation is nothing short of appalling. One of the families I mentioned has no recourse to public funds—the mother is working but just cannot work enough to bring in enough money to pay the bills, put food on the table and provide Christmas presents for her children. That is the reality today for families in the UK—the sixth richest nation on earth.

The hon. Member for Barnsley Central is correct to point out that the debate is about political choices and Government decisions that affect people in this country. He rightly quoted his town’s motto about judging people by their actions; it is a crucial point that we should take forward. He is also right to point out that the Labour Government made significant progress on child poverty, and I pay credit to them for that. The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) correctly mentioned the significance of tracking, targets and actually having something to work towards. Without that guiding principle, how will we know whether we are making progress? How will we know whether lives are being improved or getting worse?

Let me talk a little about the impact of child poverty beyond the bald statistics, which can be pretty dry. Child poverty is about stigma and isolation, and there is a compounding impact that makes it difficult to escape from the cycle of poverty. In 2010, back when I was a councillor in Glasgow, Save the Children ran a series of events about the lived experience of children in poverty. It created what it called a museum of poverty, which contained things that it wished to banish from reality and ought to be things of the past. Those included pawn tickets, unaffordable fuel, benefit forms, homelessness, cheap, crap food that does people no good, and dinner tickets and tokens, which the hon. Member for Barnsley Central mentioned. Those are all stigmas that people in poverty have to carry around with them. We do not necessarily see them, but those people have to see and feel them every single day.

Things have got worse since 2010. We have let children down. The children who participated in those events may now actually be parents themselves. We now have brutal sanctions, the two-child policy and the rape clause, which will not only stigmatise the families it impacts but hurt them deeply. We have the benefit cap, there are people with no recourse to public funds, and delays in benefits leave people with no option but to go to food banks and rely on the charity of friends, family and strangers.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Does the hon. Lady agree that unless the Government finally acknowledge that delays to benefits and benefit sanctions are major causes of people going to food banks, we will never reduce food poverty in this country?

[Alison Thewliss]

Absolutely. The evidence that the National Audit Office and charities across the country have produced on this issue makes that absolutely clear. I spoke to an organisation from Castlemilk, which is not in my constituency but has been working with food banks in my constituency. It had spoken to people who came to the food banks and tried to help them with their issues. Its evidence showed clearly that food poverty was about delays, some of which are built into the system. The six-week wait for universal credit claims leaves people with nothing until that comes through. That is absolutely unacceptable. Most worryingly, that organisation also found that people did not want to challenge things because they were worried about getting into trouble with the Department for Work and Pensions, their job coach or whoever they had spoken to. It is deeply disappointing that that service does not support people but punishes them.

A lot of very good work has been done on poverty in Glasgow. The poverty leadership panel has done a great deal of work. Glasgow City Council, in partnership with Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, Glasgow Centre for Population Health and a host of other organisations, produced an excellent report about the cost of the school day that is similar to some of work that the hon. Member for Barnsley Central mentioned.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) spoke about the developmental lag in education, which has an impact. There are things inherent in the education system that perhaps not everyone sees but are very important to people living in poverty. That report looked at the stigma about things such as clothes, transport and learning resources, and the impact of poverty on friendships, people’s ability to go on trips, food, and in-school events such as non-uniform days, fundraising events and clubs. People in poverty cannot participate in a great many of those things, and that has a huge impact, particularly on young children. Other children in a class can tell that a child is in poverty, no matter how they might try to cover that up.

The Conservatives in this place are reluctant to see “I, Daniel Blake”, but the example in that film of the wee girl whose shoes had been glued back together but kept falling apart, and the family who could not afford to put shoes on that child’s feet, is heartbreaking. Such experiences are damaging to a child’s health, wellbeing and very sense of identity. My son went through three pairs of school shoes and two pairs of trousers last year in primary 1. I was able to put shoes on his feet, but if I was not able to do that, what impact would going around in Scotland in the rain with wet feet every day have on him? That would be appalling, and many families are left in that situation. Schools in Glasgow have to buy outdoor clothes for kids who cannot afford warm jackets or welly boots so they can participate in outdoor play. So many families are close to crisis—they are an unexpected bill away from crisis—and the benefits system has left them in that situation. There is no dignity or respect there. We need to look at the root causes of poverty to deal with that.

I am glad to be able to say that the Scottish Government are taking action. They have a child poverty Bill out for consultation just now. Our ambition is to achieve change, but we cannot do that on our own. We have access to only 15% of the benefit system. We will do what we can with that 15%—we are committed to bringing in maternity and early childhood benefits to help with some of the expenses of starting school—but although that can be significant, it is only a small part of the picture. We need to look at the root causes.

Peter Kelly of the Poverty Alliance spoke about the missed opportunities in the autumn statement and said it was akin to

“being pushed off a cliff with only a pillow to absorb the landing.”

Families are still in very stark situations. It is estimated that because of cuts to tax credits, 200,000 more children will be in poverty by 2020. The two-child policy and rape clause will trap people in a situation that they just cannot earn enough to get back out of. CPAG estimates that due to cuts to universal credit, families will have to work a 13 to 14-month year to earn enough money back just to stand still in a situation where what they have is not great to begin with. Trussell Trust figures show that food bank usage increased in the first half of this year, and it distributed 500,000 three-day emergency food supplies across the UK, more than 188,000 of which were for children. That is pretty stark.

We can do a great deal to make change, and I absolutely agree with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central and other Members who have spoken that this Government should be doing so much more. They need to join the dots, they need a holistic strategy, and they need to play their part in resolving child poverty.

Benefit Claimants Sanctions (Required Assessment) Bill

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 2nd December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Conor Burns]

I agree, and I have known the Minister for over 20 years and I know him to be one of the most moderate, reflective and compassionate people in our party. I know he will be open to ideas on how we can further improve the system to deliver the best support to those who legitimately need it most.

[Alison Thewliss]

In seeking to build a system that has compassion within it, does the hon. Gentleman agree that my constituent who was sanctioned for missing his signing day to be at his father’s deathbed is in need of compassion from a system that is clearly failing at the moment?

[Conor Burns]

The hon. Lady raises an individual case; we all have individual cases in our constituencies where the system has let people down. That is why it is absolutely appropriate that there is a full independent appeals process to correct it when it goes wrong. I would extend, through the hon. Lady, our sympathy to that gentleman; the system clearly did not work for him on that occasion. But that is why it is important that we have this continuous process of listening and improvement; that is how systems are improved.

Between October and December 2015, in terms of employment and support allowance sanctioning, the Government made significant improvements in communications between decision makers and Work programme providers to ensure that claimants received relevant safeguarding activities and reduced the risk of inappropriate sanctions.

In November 2015 the Government re-introduced automated sanction notifications for jobseeker’s allowance and ESA. In December 2015 the Government issued supplementary vulnerability guidance to work coaches in Jobcentre Plus, which includes how conditionality can be tailored for vulnerable claimants to take account of individual circumstances.

--- Later in debate ---

[Conor Burns]

If the hon. Lady has an example of a named official who has told her that, she should feed that information to the Minister, because I am sure that the Department would like to investigate it. That is not the policy of Her Majesty’s Government. The Department has laid down a very clear process that staff have to follow.

I shall take the House through that process. The first stage involves a claim interview at which expectations are explained and set by the work coach. The claimant’s commitment is discussed and agreed, taking into account individual circumstances. It includes the claimant’s job goals and the days and hours they are available for work—including any agreed restrictions for caring responsibilities or health reasons—and the job steps that offer them the best prospects of employment. The work coach notifies the claimant of any specific requirements, such as the details of where and when they need to attend the jobcentre. As part of the above, the work coach explains the consequence of non-compliance and gives sources of further information, such as the Government’s website.

[Alison Thewliss]

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman is saying about the process for claimants getting into work, but does he agree that there is no logic to the case of one of my constituents who found a job and was informed by the DWP that he was at risk of sanction for failing to apply for more jobs while he was waiting to take up that job? Is that not absolutely illogical?

[Conor Burns]

I agree that that seems absolutely illogical, and I am pretty certain, on the basis of what the hon. Lady says, that that individual would be successful in appealing. It is a logical absurdity to suggest that a claimant would be fined while waiting to take up a job, unless the commencement of that job was, say, two years down the line.

I shall describe the second step to the House. If, when reviewing the claimant’s activity, the work coach identifies that an activity has not been completed, they will: tell the claimant why the doubt has arisen; ask the claimant to provide the reasons for their failure and any supporting evidence to help the decision maker reach their decision; tell the claimant what will happen next, how they will be notified of the outcome and how to challenge the decision if they disagree with it; and provide the claimant with information about hardship and how to claim it.

In the third stage, details of the failure and any available supporting information or evidence are referred by the work coach to a decision maker. The work coach will include any details they have of factors that may affect the claimant’s capacity, such as caring responsibilities, health and wellbeing issues, accommodation problems or anything else that is relevant.

In step four, the decision maker reviews the case. If required, the claimant and/or relevant third party are contacted to provide any clarification or additional information, either by telephone, email or letter. For provider referrals, including those relating to the Work programme, the decision maker tells the claimant that a doubt has arisen, gives the reasons and asks the claimant to provide the reasons for their failure and any supporting evidence.

In the fifth step, the decision maker considers all the available information and decides whether the claimant had a good reason for their failure and whether a sanction is therefore appropriate.

The sixth stage involves the details of the decision being sent to the appropriate benefits centre for processing.

In the seventh step, the claimant is issued with a notification letter to inform them of the decision. When a sanction has been applied, that notification includes details of the reason for, and the period of, the sanction, how to claim hardship and what the claimant should do if they want more information about the decision and/or want to challenge it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I point my hon. Friend towards the joint Department of Health and DWP Green Paper that we have just published. It represents a key opportunity. If we want to, it is early enough in this Parliament to reform things such as the work capability assessment to ensure that support—whether from our services or from healthcare—gets to the people who need it.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

By Wednesday’s autumn statement, it will be 505 days since the Government first announced the two-child policy and the rape clause in the summer Budget 2015. The Resolution Foundation estimates that that policy will put 200,000 children into poverty by 2020. The Government still cannot tell us how it will actually work, and there is a measly 38-day consultation in which the public can respond. When will the Government finally admit that the rape clause and the two-child policy are completely unworkable and scrap the policy?

[The Minister for Employment (Damian Hinds)]

Difficult decisions had to be made in welfare reform, and the vast majority of families with children have two children or fewer. This is one decision that had to be made, and it applies only to new cases and will not take money away from those already in receipt of help. On the exemptions that the hon. Lady mentions, these are some of the most difficult and sensitive topics. It is right that we have a full consultation and that we work closely with experts within the sector to ensure that we get the process exactly right.

Plumbers’ Pensions

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the future of plumbers’ pensions.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey, for what will be a short but hopefully considered debate about the future of plumbers’ pensions. I want to bring the issue to the attention of the House to ensure that we acknowledge the complicated concerns that plumbers have right across the country. I plead with the Government and everybody involved that we all work together to try to resolve the difficult and technical issues that are having a quite grievous impact on plumbers not just in my constituency but throughout the whole of the United Kingdom.

I first became aware of the difficulties with plumbers’ pensions when I was invited to attend a meeting of Perthshire plumbers by a Conservative councillor colleague who was associated with the trade, so that I could listen to some of the concerns that were starting to emerge from plumbers right across Scotland. I was totally shocked when I heard the scale of the difficulties, the sheer numbers involved and the concerns and anxieties presented to me by plumbers that evening. Theirs are businesses that have been serving communities such as mine, the Minister’s and yours, Mr Bailey, for decades. They are family businesses, run by people we all know and are familiar with, that do a fantastic service on behalf of the people they look after.

Plumbers have been blissfully unaware of the ticking time bomb that has been waiting for them at the end of their careers and working lives, because they have been busy getting on with their work, developing their businesses and ensuring that our pipes are fixed and our washing machines are repaired. Now they find, at the end of their careers, that life savings and family homes are at risk. These people have done absolutely nothing wrong. They have conscientiously contributed to their pension pot and ensured they have done the right thing for all the people they have employed throughout the years.

This is a technical issue, so if Members will bear with me, I will try to explain and define it as simply as I can. It seems that many plumbers are caught up in a living nightmare of huge liabilities and potential debts upon retirement because of unintended consequences associated with section 75 of the Pensions Act 1995. I have had a good look at the Pensions Act and the provisions associated with section 75. It seems to me, on paper, a perfectly legitimate and reasonable inclusion in the Act, to ensure that pension scheme integrity is retained and pension benefits are protected. It is, though, that measure that has had unintended consequences for plumbers’ pension schemes.

The simple fact is that pension schemes for small, non-associated multi-employer businesses such as those designed by plumbers are a potential disaster, with huge consequences for plumbers simply wanting to retire or wind up their businesses. That is because under section 75, employers can become liable for what is known as a section 75 employer debt, which is triggered when plumbers seek to retire or wind up their business or if their business becomes insolvent. Section 75 employer debt is calculated on the departing employer’s share of the shortfall in the scheme on a buy-out basis, based on the hypothetical situation that the whole scheme is wound up and annuities are to be paid to all existing members.

That debt is also calculated on securing the scheme’s benefits with an insurance company, which will inevitably lead to a greater figure than if the scheme deficit was determined on the ongoing basis that would normally apply in such situations. The calculation produces a significantly higher scheme deficit than if it was calculated on an ongoing or technical provisions basis. It also ignores the fact that a scheme had no deficit on a technical provisions basis at its last actuarial valuation. That has led to some plumbers facing potential liabilities of millions of pounds.

The scheme that most Scottish plumbers buy into is run and administered by the Scottish and Northern Ireland Plumbing Employers Federation—SNIPEF. It is a fantastic scheme that plumbers have enjoyed, and it is actually more than fully funded. The last actuarial valuation was carried out in 2014, and the actuary found that the assets were enough to cover 101% of the scheme’s liability. That calculation was assumed on the ongoing basis, which assumes that the scheme would continue to pay out to members.

Probably the most invidious part of the calculation is the inclusion of what is called orphan liabilities—liabilities that cannot be identified from people who have already left the scheme. Those account for something like 60% of the liabilities included in the whole scheme, and a shortfall of £453 million. It is totally unfair and almost absurd that plumbers who have conscientiously paid into the scheme are exposed to such huge liabilities.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Eric Cuthill, who runs Hugh Stirling Ltd in my constituency, has raised concerns about this issue. He has been paying in for his employees for 34 years, meaning that his employer debt liability could run into the tens of thousands. Does my hon. Friend agree that that kind of liability is quite unfair when small businesses such as my constituent’s have done so much to support their employees through occupational schemes?

[Pete Wishart]

Absolutely. These people are not city spivs. They have not malevolently tried to get out of paying their contributions. They are people like my hon. Friend’s constituent, who have conscientiously paid into schemes and never knew they would face a potential issue at the end of their working careers. It is so unfair that they are being exposed to issues such as this. These are the people who fix our central heating, get the washing machine working again, fix our broken pipes and repair the boiler.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

As I stated previously, we have been doing some work in this area. One of the key things that will help is ensuring that we have more flexibility early on in the process so that where cases are complex, the evidence is submitted. There is also huge scope for using the information that the Government, and different parts of the Government, have to cut down on the bureaucracy altogether. The Green Paper will look at all these issues.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

My constituent receives ESA and has been seeking a review of her action plan by Ingeus, but neither Ingeus nor the DWP will take responsibility for reviewing it, despite the Secretary of State having a statutory obligation to do so. Will the Secretary of State investigate my constituent’s case?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sorry to hear that. If the hon. Lady writes to me, I shall look into it further.