Oral Answers to Questions

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Neil O’Brien]

Absolutely; my hon. Friend and I have talked about this. We are looking urgently at payment models and measures to address areas that are struggling to attract the right workforce. The commissioning of dentistry will be coming down to a more accountable local level in April, and we need to build on that.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

My constituents in Durham have told me tales of DIY dentistry, missing teeth, children in pain and the unfairness of only being able to access dental care if they can afford it. Things should not be this way. The British Dental Association does not accept that the Government’s new plans go far enough to halt the decay in NHS dentistry provision. Will the Minister tell me when the Government will put in adequate funding and reform so that people in Durham can get the dental care that they need and deserve?

[Neil O’Brien]

As well as increasing the number of dentists doing NHS work and the amount of work being done, we are taking further steps to look to the longer term and build NHS dentistry. The number of dental school places is up from 810 in 2019 to 970 in 2021, but of course we want to go further. We are making it easier for dentists to come to the UK to practise. In fact, we laid draft secondary legislation on 11 October to give the General Dental Council more flexibility to do that. Around the country, plans are advancing for centres for dental development to provide not only additional dentists but hygienists and other nurses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Barclay]

My hon. Friend raises an extremely important case. I am happy to meet him to discuss it further, because it is a concerning case and I am keen to engage with him on it.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

T9. My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), the shadow Minister for public health, touched on health inequalities earlier, but I did not hear the Health Secretary recommit to publishing the White Paper by the deadline. Does he understand that the cost of living crisis and poverty are leading to greater health inequalities and that action is needed urgently? Can he recommit to that White Paper being published?

[Steve Barclay]

We are absolutely committed to addressing health inequalities. Rather than simply looking at 10 years’ time, we are looking at the immediate actions we can take, because what matters—[Interruption.] Those on the Opposition Front Bench chunter about White Papers, but what I am interested in is immediate delivery—what we can be doing now, rather than speculating about what is done in 10 years’ time.

Ambulance Services and National Heatwave Emergency

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Maria Caulfield]

I have set out to hon. Members the work we are doing to increase capacity in the ambulance service, including £150 million in funding, training more paramedics, and increasing the workforce by 40%. We published the heatwave plan for England earlier this year—the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), was not sure whether he had read it, but I urge all Members to do so. We are watching this issue on a daily basis. It is not just about the heatwave; it is about covid pressures, enabling hospitals to discharge patients, the winter pressures that will come later this year, and making sure we have resilience in the system.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I have heard from one of my constituents who suffered a stroke and was left to wait for nearly two hours for an ambulance, and is now severely disabled. That issue is being seen repeatedly across the country, so can the Minister tell me what she is doing now, urgently, to make sure that when my constituents in Durham need an ambulance urgently, they get one? The plans she has outlined and the investment she has spoken about are obviously not good enough.

[Maria Caulfield]

We are working urgently on this issue—as, I am sure, are the health services in Wales and Scotland, which are facing the same problems. We are all working hard to address them. As I have said, we have procured a contract with a value of £30 million for an auxiliary ambulance service to increase capacity, should we need it. I will be meeting all ambulance trusts in the coming days to make sure we have the resilience we need, not just to catch up with some of the pressures that existed before covid or to deal with the pressures that those trusts are facing now, but to future-proof them for the coming winter months.

Access to GP Services and NHS Dentistry

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

There are many issues that my constituents are experiencing when trying to access GP services, but I will focus my remarks on the crisis affecting dentistry across England and the impact that is having on people in Durham. I want to start by paying tribute to the dentists, dental nurses and other key workers in practices in County Durham and across the country.

Sadly, despite the brilliant work of dental workers, NHS dentistry is on the brink of collapse. Whether in Bowburn, Brandon or Pity Me, my constituents are struggling to access the dental services they need and deserve. Four in five people who contact Healthwatch say they have found it tough to access timely dental care, while tooth decay, as we have already heard, is currently the most common reason for hospital admissions among young children. In County Durham, 245 children under the age of 10 were admitted to hospital for tooth extraction between 2020 and 2021. Thousands of children are currently in pain, distracted as they learn, in pain as they eat and struggling to sleep because they cannot access vital treatment. Let that sink in.

Why is it so difficult to access NHS dental appointments? Because dentists are being driven away from NHS dental services en masse. A recent poll of dentists in England found that 45% had reduced their NHS commitment since the start of the pandemic, while 75% were likely to reduce their NHS commitment in the next 12 months. Alongside that, an alarming 87% of dentists say they have experienced symptoms of stress, burnout or other mental health problems in the past year. In total, 3,000 dentists have moved away from NHS work completely since the start of the pandemic.

As the British Dental Association has said,

“This is how NHS dentistry will die”.

The warning is not sensationalist; it is the reality that dentists and their patients in Durham are facing. This crisis is entirely avoidable. It is certainly not the fault of our rail workers striking today, as the Secretary of State would like us to believe—utterly disgraceful. What planet is he on when he talks about record funding? That is certainly not the case for NHS dentistry, which has faced cuts unparalleled to the rest of NHS services. In real terms, the Government’s net spend on general dental practice in England was slashed by over a quarter between 2010 and 2020, while the Government’s £50 million injection into dentistry will fund less than 1% of the appointments we have lost since March. In fact, the British Dental Association estimates that it would take £880 million a year to restore dental budgets back to the level when Labour left office.

Let us be clear: these issues will hit the poorest in our society the hardest. For many, the fees for private dental treatment are simply unaffordable. As one desperate constituent put it to me, “I can’t afford private treatment, so what on earth am I supposed to do?” There will be terrifying delays for children, adults and the poorest among those in County Durham, and I am sure across the whole country. Children in deprived areas are already three times more likely to have hospital extractions, while oral cancer, which kills more people than car accidents in the UK, is significantly more likely to affect those in our poorest communities. Dentists are frequently the first to spot health problems. Without access to regular appointments, our least well-off constituents will continue to be more likely to develop serious health problems than the wealthiest in society.

I take this opportunity to remind the Minister that it is the Government’s job to reduce health inequalities, not widen them. As elected representatives, we are responsible for protecting and improving access to key public services for our constituents. It is time the Government stopped treating dentistry as an afterthought and urgently took action to widen NHS dentistry. For my constituents in Durham, this crisis in healthcare is very much at the forefront of their minds.

Smokefree 2030

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes, and I wish my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) many happy returns. I declare an interest as a vice-chair of the APPG on smoking and health; I hope, therefore, that I can speak for a little more than six minutes, if that is okay.

The north-east is the most disadvantaged region in England, with high rates of smoking and all the harms that it brings. However, I am proud to say that in the last five years, the fastest declines in smoking rates have been in the north-east. Credit goes to our local authorities, which prioritised tackling smoking and banded together to fund Fresh—the longest-running and most effective regional tobacco control programme in the country. However, the north-east started with much higher smoking rates than the rest of England, so we have further to go to achieve a smokefree 2030.

More than 4,000 people died prematurely from smoking in our region last year, with 20 times as many suffering disease and disability caused by smoking, yet there is also an economic cost to our already disadvantaged communities. Smoking costs the north-east £685 million in lost productivity, £125 million to the NHS and £67 million in social care costs to local authorities. We simply cannot afford this strain on our economy.

When the smokefree 2030 goal was launched nearly three years ago, the Government acknowledged the scale of the challenge, admitting that it would be extremely challenging and promised bold action to finish the job. Since then, however, the Government have sat on their hands. Rather than stepping up their efforts to achieve the smokefree 2030 ambition, the Government have failed to announce a single new policy to that effect, while the £1 billion cut to public health funding since 2015 appears to be baked in.

The Minister knows that half the difference in life expectancy between the rich and the poor is due to differences in smoking rates. The Government’s lack of action threatens our ability to achieve not just the 2030 smokefree goal, but their levelling-up mission to narrow the gap in life expectancy between areas where it is highest and lowest by 2030 and to increase healthy life expectancy by five years by 2035.

Today’s debate was originally secured to discuss the recommendations of the independent review. The fact that the review was delayed made the debate even more necessary. The Secretary of State committed, when he announced the review in February, that it would report back in April. Javed Khan said he would report back on 22 April, so we were very disappointed that the Secretary of State told Parliament last week that he hoped it would be published in May, with no commitment that that would be the case. That is just the latest of many delays and missed opportunities, which we want to put on the record.

We want a commitment from the Government that they will accept no further delays in bringing forward a plan to achieve a smokefree 2030. Let us start with the Green Paper that announced the Government’s goal of a smokefree 2030, which was launched with much fanfare in July 2019. Further proposals included considering the “polluter pays” levy, which my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East mentioned, and giving the ultimatum of making smoked tobacco obsolete by 2030. Cabinet Office guidelines say that Departments should:

“Publish responses within 12 weeks of the consultation or provide an explanation why this is not possible.”

The Green Paper consultation ended in 2019. In July 2020, on the anniversary of the Green Paper, the then public health Minister, the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), told the APPG that work was under way to publish the further proposals envisaged in the Green Paper, and that she was keen to work with us to explore whether the current regulatory framework was sufficient. Since then, we have heard nothing.

The lack of an outcome on the Green Paper was disappointing, so in November 2020, we held a debate urging the Government to commit to publishing a new and ambitious tobacco control plan. We were therefore delighted when the then Minister committed in December to publishing a new tobacco control plan in 2021. The APPG commissioned Action on Smoking and Health, working in collaboration with SPECTRUM, the academic public health research consortium, to provide us with a report setting out our recommendations and the measures that the Government needed to take to achieve their 2030 ambition. The then Minister attended the launch of our report, welcomed our recommendations and committed to publishing the plan by the end of 2021. We are understandably disappointed by the delay in its publication.

There were other opportunities that could have been seized but were not. The Government were legally required to review the impact of existing tobacco product regulations, including those on standardised packaging, health warnings, product standards and e-cigarette regulations. The regulations set out in law a deadline for the review to report by May 2021. To that end, the Government launched a consultation last January to assess whether the objectives were still appropriate and whether the regulations were fit for purpose. Those regulations predated the Government’s commitment to a smokefree 2030, and it was blindingly obvious that they needed to be strengthened to match the scale of the Government’s new goal.

Since the regulations came into force, it has been clear that there are serious loopholes. The menthol ban relies on subjective rather than objective measurements to determine whether the regulations are being adhered to. An investigation by the Express newspaper revealed that the industry has exploited that loophole in the law and that Britain’s biggest tobacco giant sold £1 billion-worth of cigarettes flavoured with menthol in the year after the ban came into force.

That was not the only loophole; although e-cigarettes can be sold to those aged 18 and above, it is completely legal to hand them out free to children. While the advertising, promotion and sponsorship of e-cigarettes are heavily regulated, packaging and labelling are not. That has allowed the use of sweet names for vaping products, with cartoon characters and garish colouring, all of which appeal to children. Those are clear gaps in the law that need to be fixed without further delay.

The consultation was well timed to feed into the Health and Care Bill. ASH and SPECTRUM provided the Government with detailed and well-evidenced proposals for a number of improvements that would strengthen regulations and fix those loopholes. When the outcome of the review was not published in May 2021, as was required, we hoped that the Health and Care Bill would contain the further proposals the Government had promised to bring forward. Imagine our disappointment when the Bill was introduced to Parliament last July. Although it included measures on prevention and public health, there was nothing on tobacco or smoking, despite the Government’s much-trumpeted smokefree 2030 ambition.

That is why, in Committee, I tabled a set of amendments for increased regulation on tobacco, based on the APPG’s recommendations. The amendments included requirements to consult on a “polluter pays” levy; introduce pack inserts containing quit information; put warnings on cigarettes; close loopholes in the existing regulations on menthol and e-cigarettes; and consult on raising the age of sale to 21—a measure that has been proven to reduce smoking rates in the population at large by 30%. That measure has also been shown to reduce inequalities, because it has the greatest impact on the poorest and most disadvantaged communities. Throughout the passage of the Bill, Ministers in both Houses have repeatedly said that the Government were sympathetic to our aims and amendments, and that they would be considered for the next tobacco control plan. However, the tobacco control plan has already been delayed by a year and still does not have a publication date.

If the Government had supported those amendments, we would now have the foundation in place for a comprehensive strategy to end smoking by 2030. Instead, the Government have chosen to reject the amendments and, yet again, to kick tobacco control into the long grass. Now we are waiting for the tobacco control plan. Before the plan can be published, we have to wait for Javed Khan’s independent review, which will be followed by a public health disparities White Paper in the spring, which will in turn be followed by the tobacco control plan. That will leave only seven years to deliver the smokefree 2030 goal.

Since evidence first emerged of the harms caused by tobacco in the 1950s, smoking has killed more than 10 million people in the UK, and it continues to kill hundreds more every day. Up to two thirds of those smokers die prematurely from their addiction. There is a crucial message around children: every day, 280 children start smoking—that is more than 280,000 since the smokefree 2030 ambition was launched. Smoking is highly addictive; two thirds will go on to become daily smokers. With that in mind, can the Minister assure us that the tobacco control plan to deliver the smokefree 2030 ambition will be published no later than three months after the independent review? Will she also assure us that the Queen’s Speech will include a commitment to bring forward legislation in the next Session to deliver regulatory measures essential to delivering the Government’s ultimatum to the industry to make smoked tobacco obsolete by 2030?

I end with a comment from the chief medical officer. He pointed out that one in five people who die from cancer will die from lung cancer, and went on,

“the reason that people like me get very concerned and upset about it is that this cancer is almost entirely caused for profit…a small number of companies make profits from the people who they have addicted in young ages and then keep addicted to something which they know will kill them.”

[Caroline Nokes (in the Chair)]

I shall now put Members, starting with Hywel Williams, on a formal time limit of six minutes.

Health and Care Bill

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 22nd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 3—Cigarette pack inserts—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations require tobacco manufacturers to display a health information message on a leaflet inserted in cigarette packaging.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to require manufacturers to insert leaflets containing health information and information about smoking cessation services inside cigarette packaging.

New clause 4—Packaging and labelling of nicotine products—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

New clause 5—Sale and distribution of nicotine products to children under the age of 18 years—

“(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations prohibit the free distribution of nicotine products to those aged under 18 years, and prohibit the sale of all nicotine products to those under 18.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) must include an exception for medicines or medical devices indicated for the treatment of persons aged under 18.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit the free distribution or sale of any consumer nicotine product to anyone under 18, while allowing the sale or distribution of nicotine replacement therapy licensed for use by under 18s.

New clause 6—Flavoured tobacco products—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations remove the limitation of the prohibition of flavours in cigarettes or tobacco products to ‘characterising’ flavours, and extend the flavour prohibition to all tobacco products as well as smoking accessories including filter papers, filters and other products designed to flavour tobacco products.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit any flavouring in any tobacco product or smoking accessory.

New clause 8—Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)—

“(1) The Secretary of State may make any provision the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient for the purpose of enabling or facilitating—

(a) the introduction of a statutory scheme under section [Tobacco supplies: Statutory schemes], or

(b) the determination of the provision to be made in a proposed statutory scheme.

(2) The provision may, in particular, require any person to whom such a scheme may apply to—

(a) record and keep information,

(b) provide information to the Secretary of State in electronic form.

(3) The Secretary of State must—

(a) store electronically the information which is submitted in accordance with subsection (2);

(b) ensure that information submitted in accordance with this provision is made publicly available on a website, taking the need to protect trade secrets duly into account.

(4) Where the Secretary of State is preparing to make or vary a statutory scheme, the Secretary of State may make any provision the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient for transitional or transitory purposes which could be made by such a scheme.”

This new clause and NC7, NC9 and NC10 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 9—Tobacco supplies: enforcement—

“(1) Regulations may provide for a person who contravenes any provision of regulations or directions under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] to be liable to pay a penalty to the Secretary of State.

(2) The penalty may be—

(a) a single penalty not exceeding £5 million,

(b) a daily penalty not exceeding £500,000 for every day on which the contravention occurs or continues.

(3) Regulations may provide for any amount required to be paid to the Secretary of State by virtue of section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] (4) or (6)(b) to be increased by an amount not exceeding 50 per cent.

(4) Regulations may provide for any amount payable to the Secretary of State by virtue of provision made under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] (3), (4), (5) or (6)(b) (including such an amount as increased under subsection (3)) to carry interest at a rate specified or referred to in the regulations.

(5) Provision may be made by regulations for conferring on manufacturers and importers a right of appeal against enforcement decisions taken in respect of them in pursuance of [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes], [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] and this section.

(6) The provision which may be made by virtue of subsection (5) includes any provision which may be made by model provisions with respect to appeals under section 6 of the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 (c. 40), reading—

(a) the references in subsections (4) and (5) of that section to enforcement action as references to action taken to implement an enforcement decision,

(b) in subsection (5) of that section, the references to interested persons as references to any persons and the reference to any decision to take enforcement action as a reference to any enforcement decision.

(7) In subsections (5) and (6), ‘enforcement decision’ means a decision of the Secretary of State or any other person to—

(a) require a specific manufacturer or importer to provide information to him,

(b) limit, in respect of any specific manufacturer or importer, any price or profit,

(c) refuse to give approval to a price increase made by a specific manufacturer or importer,

(d) require a specific manufacturer or importer to pay any amount (including an amount by way of penalty) to the Secretary of State,

and in this subsection ‘specific’ means specified in the decision.

(8) A requirement or prohibition, or a limit, under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes], may only be enforced under this section and may not be relied on in any proceedings other than proceedings under this section.

(9) Subsection (8) does not apply to any action by the Secretary of State to recover as a debt any amount required to be paid to the Secretary of State under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] or this section.

(10) The Secretary of State may by order increase (or further increase) either of the sums mentioned in subsection (2).”

This new clause and NC7, NC8 and NC10 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 10—Tobacco supplies: controls: (supplementary)—

“(1) Any power conferred on the Secretary of State by section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] and [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] may be exercised by—

(a) making regulations, or

(b) giving directions to a specific manufacturer or importer.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1)(a) may confer power for the Secretary of State to give directions to a specific manufacturer or importer; and in this subsection ‘specific’ means specified in the direction concerned.

(3) In this section and section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] and [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] and [Tobacco supplies: enforcement]—

‘tobacco product’ means a product that can be consumed and consists, even partly, of tobacco;

‘manufacturer’ means any person who manufactures tobacco products;

‘importer’ means any person who imports tobacco products into the UK with a view to the product being supplied for consumption in the United Kingdom or through the travel retail sector, and contravention of a provision includes a failure to comply with it.”

This new clause and NC7, NC8 and NC9 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 11—Age of sale of tobacco—

“The Secretary of State must consult on raising the age of sale for tobacco from 18 to 21 within three months of the passage of this Act.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to consult on raising the age of sale for tobacco products to 21.

New clause 14—Implementation of Restrictions on advertising of less healthy food and drink online—

“The regulator shall put in place a mechanism for the delivery of the requirements under Part 2 of Schedule 16 which shall require that advertisers—

(a) apply media targeting filters, based on robust audience measurement data, to ensure the avoidance of children’s media or editorial content of particular appeal to children;

(b) use audience targeting tools and, where available, proprietary audience or other first-party data to further exclude children; and

(c) use campaign evaluation tools to assess audience impacts and use any learning to continually improve future targeting approaches.”

This new clause would require the regulator to put in place a three-step “filtering” process for restricting online advertising by managing the targeting of an online advertising campaign for foods that are high in fat, salt or sugar, as developed by the Committee of Advertising Practice of the Advertising Standards Authority.

New clause 15—Alcohol product labelling—

“The Secretary of State must by regulations make provision to ensure alcoholic drinks, as defined by the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance, published in 2018, or in future versions of that guidance, display—

(a) the Chief Medical Officers’ low risk drinking guidelines,

(b) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption,

(c) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption when pregnant,

(d) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the direct link between alcohol and cancer, and

(e) a full list of ingredients and nutritional information.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to introduce secondary legislation on alcohol product labelling.

New clause 16—Annual report on alcohol treatment services: assessment of outcomes—

“(1) The Secretary of State must lay before each House of Parliament at the start of each financial year a report on—

(a) the ways in which alcohol treatment providers have been supported in tackling excess mortality, alcohol related hospital admissions, and the burden of disease resulting from alcohol consumption, and

(b) the number of people identified as requiring support who are receiving treatment.

(2) Alongside the publication of the report, the Secretary of State must publish an assessment of the impact of the level of funding for alcohol treatment providers on their ability to deliver a high-quality service that enables patient choice.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to make an annual statement on how the funding received by alcohol treatment providers has supported their work to improve treatment and reduce harm.

New clause 17—Minimum unit price for alcohol—

“(1) The Secretary of State must by regulations make provision to ensure alcoholic drinks, as defined by the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance published in 2018, or in later versions of that document, are liable to a minimum unit price.

(2) The regulations must provide for the minimum unit price to be calculated by applying the formula M x S x V, where—

(a) M is the minimum unit price, expressed in pounds sterling,

(b) S is the percentage strength of the alcohol, expressed as a cardinal number, and

(c) V is the volume of the alcohol, expressed in litres.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to introduce secondary legislation that applies a minimum unit price to alcohol.

Amendment 14, in clause 138, page 118, line 5, after “drink)”, insert

“and section [Minimum unit price for alcohol]”.

This amendment would bring NC17 into force at the same time as section 129 and Schedule 16 (advertising of less healthy food and drink).

Amendment 3, in schedule 16, page 222, line 8, at end insert—

“(3) A brand may continue to advertise, or provide sponsorship, if the advertisement or sponsorship does not include an identifiable less healthy food and drink product.”.

This amendment makes an explicit exemption from the advertising restrictions on television programme services between 5.30 am and 9.00 pm for brand advertising and sponsorship, where there is no identifiable less healthy food and drink product.

Government amendments 31 and 32.

Amendment 11, in schedule 16, page 222, line 26, at end insert—

“(da) a drink product is ‘less healthy’ if it is an alcoholic product in accordance with the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance, published in 2018, or future versions of that guidance;”.

This amendment ensures that alcohol is considered a “less healthy” product and therefore liable to the watershed proposed for TV programme services.

Amendment 111, in schedule 16, page 222, line 28, leave out from “meaning” to end of line 30 and insert

“given in Section 465 of the Companies Act 2006 (Companies qualifying as medium-sized: general)”.

This amendment, and Amendments 112 and 113, aims to define companies to whom the advertising restrictions imposed by this schedule would apply as medium-sized companies within the meaning given by section 465 of the Companies Act 2006.

Government amendment 33.

Amendment 6, in schedule 16, page 222, line 38, after “unless”, insert

“a public consultation has been carried out on the proposed change to the relevant guidance, and”.

This amendment requires a public consultation to take place before any change can be made to the Nutrient Profiling Technical Guidance under which a food or drink product may be identified as “less healthy” and its advertising restricted on television programme services between 5.30 am and 9.00 pm.

Amendment 4, in schedule 16, page 223, line 4, at end insert—

“(3) A brand may continue to advertise, and provide sponsorship as a brand, if the advertisement or sponsorship does not include an identifiable less healthy food and drink product.”.

This amendment makes explicit exemptions from the advertising restrictions on on-demand programme services for brand advertising and sponsorship, where there is no identifiable less healthy food and drink product.

Government amendments 34 and 35.

Amendment 12, in schedule 16, page 223, line 24, at end insert—

“(da) a drink product is “less healthy” if it is an alcoholic product in accordance with the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance, published in 2018, or future versions of that guidance;”.

This amendment ensures that alcohol is considered a “less healthy” product and therefore liable to the watershed proposed for TV programme services.

Amendment 112, in schedule 16, page 223, line 26, leave out from “meaning” to end of line 27 and insert

“given in Section 465 of the Companies Act 2006 (Companies qualifying as medium-sized: general)”.

See explanatory statement to Amendment 111.

Government amendment 36.

Amendment 7, in schedule 16, page 223, line 36, after “unless”, insert

“a public consultation has been carried out on the proposed change to the relevant guidance, and”.

This amendment requires a public consultation to take place before any change can be made to the Nutrient Profiling Technical Guidance under which a food or drink product may be identified as “less healthy” and its advertising restricted on on-demand programme services.

Amendment 106, in schedule 16, page 224, line 8, leave out “must not pay for” and insert

“must not market, sell or arrange”.

This series of connected probing amendments is intended to create parity in treatment of television and online advertising. The platform carrying the advertising, rather than those paying for advertising, would be responsible for the placing of advertisements. The wording to denote a platform mirrors that used by Ofcom in its recent regulation of Video Sharing Platforms consultation.

Amendment 110, in schedule 16, page 224, line 16, at end insert—

“(aa) in relation to advertisements placed on distributor or retailer websites which are associated with the sale of food or drink”.

This amendment aims to ensure paid-for branded HFSS product advertisements are treated as equivalent to HFSS own-brand products on retailer-owned spaces.

Government amendment 37.

Amendment 5, in schedule 16, page 224, line 26, at end insert—

“(4) A brand may continue to advertise, and provide sponsorship as a brand, if the advertisement does not include an identifiable less healthy food and drink product.”.

This amendment makes an explicit exemption from the restrictions on online advertising for brand advertising and sponsorship, where there is no identifiable less healthy food and drink product.

Government amendment 38.

Amendment 13, in schedule 16, page 225, line 10, at end insert—

“(fa) a drink product is “less healthy” if it is an alcoholic product in accordance with the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance, published in 2018, or future versions of that guidance;”.

This amendment ensures that alcohol is considered a “less healthy” product and therefore liable to the online ban.

Amendment 113, in schedule 16, page 225, line 12, leave out from “meaning” to end of line 14 and insert

“given in Section 465 of the Companies Act 2006 (Companies qualifying as medium-sized: general)”.

See explanatory statement to Amendment 111.

Government amendment 39.

Amendment 8, in schedule 16, page 225, line 24, after “unless”, insert

“a public consultation has been carried out on the proposed change to the relevant guidance, and”.

This amendment requires a public consultation to take place before any change can be made to the Nutrient Profiling Technical Guidance under which a food or drink product may be identified as “less healthy” and its advertising restricted online.

Amendment 107, in schedule 16, page 225, line 28, leave out “made a payment for” and insert “marketed, sold or arranged”.

See explanatory statement for Amendment 106.

Amendment 108, in schedule 16, page 225, line 30, leave out “made” and insert “received”.

See explanatory statement for Amendment 106.

Amendment 109, in schedule 16, page 227, line 3, leave out from “with” to end of line 4 and insert

“the person marketing, selling or arranging advertisements published on the internet”.

See explanatory statement for Amendment 106.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mary Kelly Foy]

Before I address the amendments tabled in my name, I want to briefly voice my support for amendments 11 to 13 and new clauses 15 to 17, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden), which call for improved regulation of alcohol marketing and labelling, for minimum unit pricing in England and for better assessment of treatment outcomes. Sadly, my hon. Friend cannot be here today, as he is with his family and his father Mike, who is receiving palliative care after many months of treatment for lung cancer. I know how important these issues are to my hon. Friend; I express my love and solidarity, and that of the whole House, at this difficult time for him and his loved ones.

Smoking is one of the biggest causes of ill health. It has a devastating impact on our population: it killed approximately the same number of people in 2019 as covid 19 in 2020, and one in every two smokers will die from smoking-related illnesses. The Government and the Opposition both support a smoke-free 2030, but without meaningful action, that ambition will be missed by seven years—or by double that number of years, in the case of the poorest in society.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that Professor Marmot’s work on social and health inequalities shows that 0.5% of GDP should be spent on health inequalities such as those she describes?

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I could not agree more. Michael Marmot is one of the most important health inequalities experts around.

To make matters worse, smoking rates among young adults have surged to 25% above pre-lockdown rates. However, despite the damage that missing the 2030 target would cause, there is nothing in the Bill that would help to achieve the Government’s ambition to make smoking obsolete. That is why the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health, of which I am the vice-chair, is fighting to get the 2030 ambition back on track. I was delighted to hear the Minister say in Committee that the Government would review the APPG’s proposals as they developed their own tobacco control plan, but that plan, which was due this year and expected in July, is now likely to be delayed beyond the end of the year. If the Government are serious about creating a smoke-free England by 2030, they will implement the APPG’s recommendations as soon as possible, and the Bill provides the ideal opportunity for them to do so.

Let me quickly summarise new clause 2. It gives the Secretary of State powers to add health warnings to cigarettes and cigarette papers. The Government are reviewing the proposal, but have said that more research is needed. Health warnings such as “Smoking Kills” have been shown to be effective on billboards and tobacco packs, so why on earth would they not be effective on individual cigarettes? At least eight peer-reviewed papers have been published in the last five years showing that the measures are effective. Similarly, new clause 3 would give the Secretary of State powers to require health information messages to be inserted in cigarette packs. That has been a legal requirement in Canada since 2000, and there is substantial evidence to show that it works there. Research carried out in the UK supports its use here as well.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

The hon. Lady will, of course, understand that one of our key aims must be to stop younger generations taking up smoking in the first place. Does she believe that her proposals—which I fully support—will help to achieve that key strategic aim?

[Mary Kelly Foy]

Most of my new clauses are indeed intended to prevent young people from starting to smoke in the first place.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

The hon. Lady has said that these measures apply to England, but they will of course have an effect throughout the United Kingdom—and rightly so—contributing to our aim to bring about a smoke-free Wales as well.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

Again, I could not agree more.

In Committee, the Minister said that the Department could already legislate under the Children and Families Act 2014 to require the insertion of such information messages. In that case, why do the Government not commit themselves to doing so now?

New clauses 4 to 6 address loopholes in current legislation. Now that those loopholes have been identified to the Government, they should be fixed without delay, and today we have the opportunity to do so. New clause 4 would give the Secretary of State powers to remove child-friendly branding elements from nicotine products. There are e-liquids on the market that are given sweet names, such as “gummy bears”, and that have branding that is in garish colours and features cartoon characters. Surely more evidence is not necessary to prove that such branding risks attracting children.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

Is this not one of the most important of the hon. Lady’s new clauses? As people age and die—events often driven by cigarettes—or perhaps manage to give up, the tobacco companies must recruit the young, with the indefensible aim of persuading them to start smoking.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I entirely agree. Tobacco is the only legal product that kills one in two of those who use it, and most people start smoking at a young age. These new clauses are therefore extremely important, because they would tackle that problem.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The figures back up what the hon. Lady says. Two thirds of smokers in the UK start smoking under the age of 18, and over a third—39%—start under the age of 16. What she proposes will address that issue in a substantial way. We need legislation in place, and there needs to be punishment as well; that is the only way forward.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I will address that issue.

New clause 5 would close another loophole in the law, which allows the free distribution of e-cigarettes and other consumer nicotine products to children under 18. The Government rejected the proposal, saying that there was no evidence of a serious problem, but the Minister sympathised with the argument for preventive action. Prevention is precisely our intention. Fixing this loophole is an appropriate application of the precautionary principle.

New clause 6 would remove the limitations on the ban on flavourings in tobacco products. That ban currently applies only to characterising flavours. The new clause would extend the flavour ban to all tobacco products, as well as to smoking accessories, including filter papers, filters and other products designed to favour tobacco products. In Committee, the Minister claimed it was unclear how a ban could be enforced in practice, as it would include a ban on flavours that did not give a noticeable flavour to the product. I suggest that he seek advice from Canada on this point, where a complete ban on flavours is already in place and has been highly effective.

The new clauses on the tobacco levy would give powers to the Secretary of State to implement a “polluter pays” levy on tobacco manufacturers. The Minister dismissed this in Committee as a matter of taxation for the Treasury to consider. However, we are not proposing additional taxation. Our new clauses are modelled on the American user fee and on the pharmaceutical pricing scheme in the UK.

[Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that prevention is much better than cure, because so many adult smokers have a terrible experience when trying to give up, and it comes at a huge cost to their health?

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. A theme throughout these new clauses is that most people start smoking when they are children or when they are young, and most of them say that they wish they had never started. The new clauses would tackle young people’s access to tobacco-related products.

[Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)]

It is often vulnerable children, and often those in care, who start smoking early, so does my hon. Friend agree that it is incredible that the Government have so far said that they will not support these new clauses?

[Mary Kelly Foy]

Yes, it is absolutely incredible. We have heard that a tobacco plan might be on its way, but every day that goes by without our putting these recommendations in place is another day on which someone dies of tobacco harm, and on which more young people become addicted to nicotine products.

Discussions with the Treasury on the “polluter pays” levy would not be necessary. The Food and Drug Administration administers the user fee in the United States, and the Department of Health and Social Care could and should administer such a scheme here.

New clause 11 has been revised in the light of the Government’s response to our proposal in the Committee, in which they cited the need to

“review the evidence base of increasing the age of sale to 21 in more detail”.––[Official Report, Health and Care Public Bill Committee, 28 October 2021; c. 816.]

They also stated the need for a public consultation. I agree that a consultation is the appropriate next step, so the new clause has been revised to require the Government to consult on raising the age of sale for tobacco from 18 to 21 within three months of the passage of this legislation.

To sum up, my new clauses address loopholes in the law. They would take incremental and obvious next steps to strengthen tobacco regulation still further, and they would provide the funding that is desperately needed to deliver the Government’s smoke-free 2030 ambition—funding that the spending review failed to deliver. When I was chair of the Gateshead tobacco control alliance, I saw the damage that smoking can do. It shortens life expectancy, increases the pressure on our health services, drives down productivity and drains wealth from our poorest communities—and for one in every two smokers, it will kill them. Eventually, the Government will have to accept that the measures proposed are necessary. The only question is how long they will wait, and how many lives will be ruined by tobacco in the meantime. I urge the Government to accept these new clauses in full.

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid I will not. I suspect that point will be pertinent to the debate on the first group of amendments tomorrow.

First, we intend to merge Health Education England with NHS England and NHS Improvement, putting education and training of our health workforce at the forefront of the NHS. By bringing this vital function inside the NHS, we can plan more effectively for the long term and have clear accountability for delivery.

Secondly, we also intend to take forward the recommendations of the Wade-Gery report, which included merging NHSX and NHS Digital with NHS England and NHS Improvement, building on the huge progress made on digital transformation during the pandemic and bringing together the digital leadership of the NHS in one place. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to all our colleagues at Health Education England, NHS Digital and NHSX for their exceptional work. These changes build on that contribution and allow us to drive forward further integration and changes that will put the NHS on a firmer footing.

I hope I have reassured hon. Members of the Government’s commitment to improving public health. I urge those who have tabled amendments to consider not pressing them to a Division.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I have listened carefully to the debate, and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 4

Packaging and labelling of nicotine products

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”—(Mary Kelly Foy.)

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Tobacco Control Plan

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for securing the debate and for his work as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health, of which I am vice-chair.

Two years after the Government stated their ambition to make England smoke-free by 2030, projections show that they will miss that target by seven years, and double that for the poorest in society. Despite a promise of further action on tobacco, we are still waiting for the new tobacco control plan, which the Government pledged to publish this year. In the absence of that new plan, the Health and Care Bill is a timely opportunity to take the first step towards a smoke-free 2030.

Despite the urgency of the issue and my best efforts in Committee, the Health and Care Bill fails to make a single mention of tobacco or smoking. To correct that oversight, I tabled amendments to the Bill, based on recommendations made by the APPG on smoking and health, including proposals for a “polluter pays” levy, health warnings on cigarettes and inside packaging, and to close the loophole allowing e-cigarettes to be marketed at children. Those measures are all low-cost or revenue-generating, are popular with the public and could be implemented quickly and easily by the Government. Although the Government expressed support for the principle behind the proposals, they rejected every single one, saying that they wanted to wait and see the evidence.

The Government have cited the need to wait for the publication of the post-implementation reviews of the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015 and the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016. The Government were required by law to publish those by May 2021. That has now drifted to an aim to publish by the end of the year. Will the Minister say how much longer we will have to wait for the Government to start taking action to deliver the smoke-free 2030 ambition? She should know that if the APPG’s amendments are not adopted in the House of Commons, they will be retabled in the other place.

Today I want to briefly make the case for my proposals and address the Government’s arguments against them. The first proposal is to include health warnings on cigarettes and cigarette papers. Substantial research supports their implementation, and they are already under consideration in Canada, Australia and Scotland. Such warnings would be cheap and easy to implement through a simple amendment to the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015. The Government said they were sympathetic to the aims of the measure, but they are not willing to adopt it, citing the need to conduct further research and for more evidence. Warnings such as “smoking kills” have been shown to be effective on billboards and tobacco packs, so why would they not be effective on cigarette sticks, too? Adding warnings to cigarette sticks is also important because young people in particular are likely to begin smoking with an individual cigarette rather than packs. There have also been at least eight peer-reviewed academic studies published since 2015 that specifically looked at warnings on sticks and found them to be effective, particularly in making cigarettes less attractive to younger adolescents and never-smokers.

Cigarette pack inserts that provide health information have been required in Canada since 2000. Substantial evidence shows that they are effective, and research supports their use in the UK, too. The Government have already acknowledged in the prevention Green Paper that there could be a positive role for inserts giving quitting advice in tobacco products. Pack inserts are easy and cheap to introduce and, as the Government have acknowledged, could be implemented by a simple revision of the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015. Again, the Government refuse to adopt the amendment, citing the need for further research and public consultation and to wait for the recommendations of the post-implementation review of the SPOT regulations, yet there is no guarantee that the review will contain concrete recommendations. Indeed, the 2019 review failed to do that. My concern is that the measure needed will just get kicked into the long grass, putting the 2030 ambition at risk.

There are currently no controls on the use of branding to promote e-cigarette products, some of which, particularly e-liquids, are branded in a way that is clearly attractive to children through the use of bright colours, sweet names and cartoon characters. Research by YouGov for ASH found that in 2021, 3.3% of 11 to 17-year-old never-smokers have tried e-cigarettes once or twice; 0.5% use them less than weekly; and 0.2% use them more than once a week. Although those percentages seem low, it still amounts to 174,900 never-smokers trying e-cigarettes. Another 26,500 carried on using them, and 10,600 used them more than once a week. The ASH YouGov survey of adults and young people found that standardising the packaging of e-cigarettes and refills reduces the appeal of vaping to young people, particularly young children, while having little impact on adult smokers’ interest in using the products to quit smoking. Frustratingly, the amendment was voted down by the Government in Committee.

A further issue that must be addressed is that although it is illegal for e-cigarettes to be sold to children under 18, it is not illegal for them to be given out as free samples to under-18s. That loophole fails to deliver on the spirit of the legislation, which is designed to protect children from nicotine addiction. Clearly, the legislation needs amending to ban the sale and free distribution of any consumer nicotine product to under-18s. The Government inexplicably voted down that proposal in Committee. They said that they did not have a firm or robust evidence base at present to suggest that there was a widespread problem. As stated, around 174,900 never-smokers aged 11 to 17 have tried e-cigarettes and another 10,500 use them more than once a week. Does the Minister genuinely think that we should wait until their use of e-cigarettes becomes a significant problem before taking action to remove this loophole?

Finally, I want to talk about flavourings. The ban on flavourings in smoking tobacco was introduced because flavourings, particularly menthol, make it easier for young people to start smoking and increase the likelihood that they will become addicted smokers. However, the flavour ban only prohibits characterising flavours, which are subjective and difficult to measure, making the ban easy to circumvent and complex to oversee. Legislation in Canada bans all flavours, which is easier to implement and enforce. There is good reason to do that, as the tobacco industry has introduced several innovations that have exploited loopholes in the regulations to undermine the impact of the ban. For example, Japan Tobacco International launched a range of alternative products containing menthol, but which they claimed complied with the law. Figures in the Express revealed that 12 months after the ban came into force in 2020, the company had sold more than 100 million packs and made around £91.65 million in profits from menthol brands.

In addition, modified smoking accessories have been introduced, including cards, filter papers and filters, that are designed to add a menthol flavour to both hand-rolling tobacco and cigarette sticks. UCL’s smoking toolkit study found no decline in the proportion of smokers in England reporting menthol cigarette smoking following the introduction of the ban, and it suggested that smokers of menthol cigarettes were able to take advantage of the loophole. The flavour ban is clearly failing to prevent the sale of flavoured tobacco, which is why I propose extending the ban to all tobacco flavours, not just those described as characterising.

Again the Government oppose the measure, claiming that

“it is not clear how a ban on flavours would be enforced in practice”.––[Official Report, Health and Care Public Bill Committee, 28 October 2021; c. 815.]

That is not logical as it is much easier to enforce a complete ban on flavours than on only those defined as characterising, which is very subjective.

Does the Minister agree that the tobacco industry is making a mockery of the current flavour ban? Will she commit to closing the loophole by removing the limitation to only include flavours defined as characterising as soon as possible and extending the ban, which currently only applies to cigarettes, to all tobacco products and smoking accessories?

Health and Care Bill (Twentieth sitting)

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 28th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

All the rules and regulations you have all heard four times this week still apply, so we will crack on.

New Clause 29

Health warnings on cigarettes and cigarette papers

“The Secretary of State may by regulations require tobacco manufacturers to print health warnings on individual cigarettes and cigarette rolling papers.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to require manufacturers to print health warnings on individual cigarettes.—(Mary Kelly Foy.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 30—Cigarette pack inserts—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations require tobacco manufacturers to display a health information message on a leaflet inserted in cigarette packaging.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to require manufacturers to insert leaflets containing health information and information about smoking cessation services inside cigarette packaging.

New clause 31—Packaging and labelling of nicotine products—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

New clause 32—Sale and distribution of nicotine products to children under the age of 18 years—

“(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations prohibit the free distribution of nicotine products to those aged under 18 years, and prohibit the sale of all nicotine products to those under 18.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) must include an exception for medicines or medical devices indicated for the treatment of persons aged under 18.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit the free distribution or sale of any consumer nicotine product to anyone under 18, while allowing the sale or distribution of nicotine replacement therapy licensed for use by under 18s.

New clause 33—Flavoured tobacco products—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations remove the limitation of the prohibition of flavours in cigarettes or tobacco products to “characterising” flavours, and extend the flavour prohibition to all tobacco products as well as smoking accessories including filter papers, filters and other products designed to flavour tobacco products.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit any flavouring in any tobacco product or smoking accessory.

New clause 34—Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes—

“(1) The Secretary of State may make a scheme (referred to in this section and section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] as a statutory scheme) for one or more of the following purposes—

(a) regulating the prices which may be charged by any manufacturer or importer of tobacco products for the supply of any tobacco products,

(b) limiting the profits which may accrue to any manufacturer or importer in connection with the manufacture or supply of tobacco products, or

(c) providing for any manufacturer or importer of tobacco products to pay to the Secretary of State an amount calculated by reference to sales or estimated sales of those products (whether on the basis of net prices, average selling prices or otherwise).

(2) A statutory scheme may, in particular, make any provision mentioned in subsections (3) to (6).

(3) The scheme may provide for any amount representing sums charged by any manufacturer or importer to whom the scheme applies, in excess of the limits determined under the scheme, for tobacco products covered by the scheme to be paid by that person to the Secretary of State within a specified period.

(4) The scheme may provide for any amount representing the profits, in excess of the limits determined under the scheme, accruing to any manufacturer or importer to whom the scheme applies in connection with the manufacture or importation of tobacco products covered by the scheme to be paid by that person to the Secretary of State within a specified period.

(5) The scheme may provide for any amount payable in accordance with the scheme by any manufacturer or importer to whom the scheme applies to be paid to the Secretary of State within a specified period.

(6) The scheme may—

(a) prohibit any manufacturer or importer to whom the scheme applies from varying, without the approval of the Secretary of State, any price charged by him for the supply of any tobacco product covered by the scheme, and

(b) provide for any amount representing any variation in contravention of that prohibition in the sums charged by that person for that product to be paid to the Secretary of State within a specified period.”

This new clause and NC35, NC36 and NC37 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 35—Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)—

“(1) The Secretary of State may make any provision the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient for the purpose of enabling or facilitating—

(a) the introduction of a statutory scheme under section [Tobacco supplies: Statutory schemes], or

(b) the determination of the provision to be made in a proposed statutory scheme.

(2) The provision may, in particular, require any person to whom such a scheme may apply to—

(a) record and keep information,

(b) provide information to the Secretary of State in electronic form.

(3) The Secretary of State must—

(a) store electronically the information which is submitted in accordance with subsection (2);

(b) ensure that information submitted in accordance with this provision is made publicly available on a website, taking the need to protect trade secrets duly into account.

(4) Where the Secretary of State is preparing to make or vary a statutory scheme, the Secretary of State may make any provision the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient for transitional or transitory purposes which could be made by such a scheme.”

This new clause and NC34, NC36 and NC37 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 36—Tobacco supplies: enforcement—

“(1) Regulations may provide for a person who contravenes any provision of regulations or directions under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] to be liable to pay a penalty to the Secretary of State.

(2) The penalty may be—

(a) a single penalty not exceeding £5 million,

(b) a daily penalty not exceeding £500,000 for every day on which the contravention occurs or continues.

(3) Regulations may provide for any amount required to be paid to the Secretary of State by virtue of section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] (4) or (6)(b) to be increased by an amount not exceeding 50 per cent.

(4) Regulations may provide for any amount payable to the Secretary of State by virtue of provision made under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] (3), (4), (5) or (6)(b) (including such an amount as increased under subsection (3)) to carry interest at a rate specified or referred to in the regulations.

(5) Provision may be made by regulations for conferring on manufacturers and importers a right of appeal against enforcement decisions taken in respect of them in pursuance of [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes], [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] and this section.

(6) The provision which may be made by virtue of subsection (5) includes any provision which may be made by model provisions with respect to appeals under section 6 of the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 (c. 40), reading—

(a) the references in subsections (4) and (5) of that section to enforcement action as references to action taken to implement an enforcement decision,

(b) in subsection (5) of that section, the references to interested persons as references to any persons and the reference to any decision to take enforcement action as a reference to any enforcement decision.

(7) In subsections (5) and (6), ‘enforcement decision’ means a decision of the Secretary of State or any other person to—

(a) require a specific manufacturer or importer to provide information to him,

(b) limit, in respect of any specific manufacturer or importer, any price or profit,

(c) refuse to give approval to a price increase made by a specific manufacturer or importer,

(d) require a specific manufacturer or importer to pay any amount (including an amount by way of penalty) to the Secretary of State,

and in this subsection ‘specific’ means specified in the decision.

(8) A requirement or prohibition, or a limit, under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes], may only be enforced under this section and may not be relied on in any proceedings other than proceedings under this section.

(9) Subsection (8) does not apply to any action by the Secretary of State to recover as a debt any amount required to be paid to the Secretary of State under section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] or this section.

(10) The Secretary of State may by order increase (or further increase) either of the sums mentioned in subsection (2).”

This new clause and NC34, NC35 and NC37 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 37—Tobacco supplies: controls: (supplementary)—

“(1) Any power conferred on the Secretary of State by section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] and [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] may be exercised by—

(a) making regulations, or

(b) giving directions to a specific manufacturer or importer.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1)(a) may confer power for the Secretary of State to give directions to a specific manufacturer or importer; and in this subsection ‘specific’ means specified in the direction concerned.

(3) In this section and section [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes] and [Tobacco supplies: statutory schemes (supplementary)] and [Tobacco supplies: enforcement]—

‘tobacco product’ means a product that can be consumed and consists, even partly, of tobacco;

‘manufacturer’ means any person who manufactures tobacco products;

‘importer’ means any person who imports tobacco products into the UK with a view to the product being supplied for consumption in the United Kingdom or through the travel retail sector, and contravention of a provision includes a failure to comply with it.”

This new clause and NC34, NC35 and NC36 would enable the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to regulate prices and profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers.

New clause 38—Age of sale of tobacco—

“The Secretary of State may by regulations substitute the age of 21 for the age of 18 for the sale of tobacco and make consequential amendments to the Children and Young Persons Act 1933, the Children and Young Persons (Protection from Tobacco) Act 1991 and the Children and Families Act 2014.”

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to raise the age of sale for tobacco products to 21.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

The Government’s prevention Green Paper, published in July 2019, included an ambition to make England smoke free by 2030. Admitting that bold action would be needed, the Government promised further proposals in order to finish the job. Two years on, and with less than nine years to go before 2030, we are nowhere near on track to achieve that ambition. Using Government data, projections by Cancer Research UK show that we will miss the target by seven years, and by double that for the poorest in society. Despite the promise of further action on tobacco, there are no measures to tackle smoking in the Bill. That is a major oversight, which my new clauses seek to address.

The new clauses are based on the recommendations included in the latest report from the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health, of which I am the vice-chair. They set out a range of complementary measures to deliver the smoke free ambition, which will also significantly increase productivity and reduce pressure on the health and care system. Although the smoke-free 2030 ambition applies specifically to England, all parts of the UK have stated an ambition to end smoking, so I am pleased that members of the Committee from Wales and Scotland support the new clauses.

I will briefly run through the new clauses and why they are necessary additions to the Bill. New clause 29 would give the Secretary of State the power to require tobacco manufacturers to print health warnings on individual cigarettes and cigarette rolling papers. New clause 30 would allow the Secretary of State to require tobacco manufacturers to display a health information message on a leaflet inserted into cigarette packaging, which the Government promised to consider in the prevention Green Paper two years ago. Those are simple, uncontroversial and effective measures that would help deliver the Government’s smoke-free 2030 ambition at minimal cost.

New clauses 31 to 33 would allow the Secretary of State to close loopholes and regulations that allow tobacco and e-cigarette manufacturers to market their products to children and to undermine regulations that are designed to protect public health. New clause 31 would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging that appeals to children, such as branding that uses sweet names, cartoon characters and garish colours.

New clause 32 would give the Secretary of State powers to block a shocking loophole in the law that means that, although e-cigarettes cannot be sold to children under 18, they can be given out for free. There is no reason why we cannot seek to rectify that anomaly today. New clause 33 would give the Secretary of State powers to ban all flavouring and not just that defined as characterising. That term is subjective and ill-defined and has allowed tobacco manufacturers to drive a coach and horses through the legislation.

The Government were required by law to review the relevant tobacco regulations to check whether they are fit for purpose, and to publish a report in May 2021, which they have not done. It is time for them to address these egregious loopholes in the regulations, and the Bill is an ideal opportunity to do so. These new clauses are uncontroversial, and would be of clear benefit to child public health. I will therefore seek to divide the Committee on new clauses 31, 32 and possibly 33.

Following on from those new clauses, we must accept that if England is to be smoke free by 2030 we need to stop people starting smoking at the most susceptible age, when they are adolescents and young adults. There is a real and present danger that must be addressed: new figures from a large survey by University College London found a 25% surge in the number of young adults aged 18 to 34 in England who smoked during the first lockdown. New clause 38 would give the Secretary of State powers to raise the age of sale for tobacco products from 18 to 21. That regulatory measure would have the largest impact in reducing the prevalence of smoking among young adults, as demonstrated by what happened in the United States when the age of sale was increased to 21.

Finally, I want to address the issue of funding. The coronavirus pandemic has meant that the need for more investment in public health is greater than ever before. The Government promised to consider a US-style “polluter pays” levy on tobacco manufacturers in the 2019 prevention Green Paper. New clauses 34 to 37 would enable the Secretary of State to regulate prices and the profits of tobacco manufacturers and importers, which could provide funding not only for England, but for the devolved Administrations, with any excess allocated to other vital public health interventions.

I want to express my gratitude to my hon. Friends for supporting these new clauses. I hope the Government will engage with these proposals in a similarly constructive manner with regard to the forthcoming tobacco control plan, ensuring that public health is at the heart of any discussions around smoking and tobacco.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

Obviously, smoking has increased during covid, particularly during the lockdowns, which is quite depressing after some of the progress made in recent decades. This array of new clauses tries to tackle the issue from different angles. New clauses 32 and 38 relate to the age at which someone can purchase, along with other point-of-sale policies. Those issues are all under devolved control, so I have not got involved in those. However, the policy decisions around manufacturing, flavourings, packaging and so on are all reserved, and all four nations of the UK would agree that the biggest single favour anyone can do for their own health is to give up smoking.

As older people and people who have smoked for many years sadly succumb to the diseases we know are caused by smoking, such as heart disease, stroke and cancer, it is incumbent on tobacco companies to recruit a new generation. That is what ornate packaging and childish flavourings are clearly aimed at doing, and they are therefore completely counter to the policies of the UK Government and the devolved Governments.

This is an opportunity to stake the point, move forward and take action to prevent the recruitment of young smokers into cigarette smoking, which will inevitably cost the NHS—indeed the four NHSs—more, as they deal with the health issues over a number of decades, than is raised by tobacco duty. The Government need to stop looking at what they earn from cigarettes and focus on minimising their use. That is the Government’s stated policy, and these new clauses would take that forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

Except perhaps the proper conduct of proceedings.

Moving on swiftly, new clause 33 seeks to change the current flavour ban, which would of course be the context in which I was referring to proper conduct proceedings requiring proper documents to be published. The new clause seeks to change the current flavour ban, which is based on characterising flavours in cigarettes and hand-rolling tobacco, to one based on flavours for all tobacco products, as well as accessories used to flavour tobacco products.

The Government are committed to protecting the population from the harms of tobacco. Tobacco for smoking that has a detectable flavour—for example, menthol—has been changed to be more appealing to young people and easier to inhale. That can often result in a lifetime of tobacco addiction. Through the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016, we have already banned characterising flavours in cigarettes and hand-rolled tobaccos. That means flavours that are noticeable before or during smoking of the product.

Again, the Government are sympathetic to the aims of the new clause, which would prohibit flavours in all tobacco products and accessories, but it is not clear how a ban on flavours would be enforced in practice, as it would include a ban on flavours that do not give a noticeable flavour to the product. Furthermore, it is not clear how this may be a better option than the current regulations, although the hon. Member for City of Durham might wish to address that point in her winding-up speech. As ever, I will reflect carefully on what she says and then discuss it with my colleague, the Public Health Minister. We are currently in the process of developing our new tobacco control plan. We are exploring, as I have said, a broad range of additional regulatory measures to support our Smokefree 2030 ambition.

New clauses 34 to 37—which, with your permission, Mr Bone, I will take in one bundle—seek to provide the Secretary of State with a power to enable the introduction of a scheme on tobacco manufacturers, limiting profitability by regulating prices. Tobacco taxation matters are, it will not surprise hon. Members to hear, a matter for Her Majesty’s Treasury. Although earlier this week I found myself answering an urgent question relating to matters pertinent to Her Majesty’s Treasury, I will not stray into its territory, beyond saying that reducing the affordability of tobacco is one of the most effective measures to trigger smoking cessation. Tax increases are particularly effective among a range of groups of smokers, and therefore this is a key tool in helping to address health disparities and health outcomes associated with smoking.

As part of the annual Budget process, the Treasury will continue the policy of using tax to raise revenues and encourage cessation through high prices on tobacco products. The tobacco industry is already required to make a contribution to public finances, through tobacco duty, VAT and corporation tax. While the Government are open to the idea of the tobacco industry providing additional funds beyond taxation, further consideration of the potential options for and impacts of a scheme, including a robust impact assessment, would be needed. We would also need to consider how such a scheme would be implemented and how it would impact the taxation requirements currently placed on the industry. Such a scheme would likely take a number of years to develop and deliver to ensure that it was effective and robust.

The Department will continue to work with Her Majesty’s Treasury to assess the most effective regulatory means of making the industry pay for the harm that its products cause to our population, to support the Government’s Smokefree 2030 ambition, including exploring a potential future levy. Our ongoing work has contributed to smoking rates falling to their lowest on record, as the hon. Member for Nottingham North said, but there is still much more work to be done to protect people from the harms of tobacco.

Finally, new clause 38 would introduce a power to introduce legislation that would increase the age of sale on tobacco from 18 to 21. We have successfully made many regulatory reforms over the past two decades, and the UK is a global leader in tobacco control. Measures include raising the age of sale from 16 to 18, a tobacco display ban, standardised packaging and a ban on smoking in cars with children, all strengthening the barrier between young people and tobacco products.

The Government remain committed to our ambition to be smoke free by 2030 and to continue to protect the population and future generations from the harms of tobacco. However, the Government would like to review the evidence base of increasing the age of sale to 21 in more detail—I am probably in the same place on that issue as the shadow Minister. We would like to further assess its full impact on public health, the costs of implementation and how it would be enforced by trading standards. We have not consulted publicly on raising the age of sale to 21 to assess public opinion and consider whether it is the right regulatory measure to take forward to protect future generations. I know it is an issue that the APPG and the Royal College of Physicians have recommended we should consider.

We are currently in the process of developing our new tobacco control plan. We will review all the proposals in that context, as well as the well-researched reports that the APPG has put forward. I suspect the hon. Member for City of Durham will still want to push us on a few of these points—if not disagreeing with the sentiment, then possibly with the speed or the timescale. I will listen very carefully to what she says. I encourage her not to press the new clauses, but I suspect I may be out of luck.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I welcome the Government’s commitment to publishing the plan and the consideration of some of the recommendations. I hope we will see that very soon. I will not press the majority of the new clauses, but new clauses 31 and 32 are aimed at children and child public health. I do not think we can wait.

We already have examples of vaping companies handing out free vaping products to 16 and 17-year-olds. There is an example of a 17-year-old woman on a market stall. A third party company came along and offered her vaping products in return for her email address, which was suspicious enough anyway. They do not tell the young person that the products have nicotine in them. There are already such examples.

I went online this morning to see whether I could purchase vaping products. The first one that came up was called the Breakfast Club, which tastes like marshmallow-flavoured breakfast charms. It is a shot of nicotine that goes into the refill of a vaping product. The refill is 15 ml, with a space left at the top for the shot. The Breakfast Club “charms”, which come in pink and yellow, are aimed at young people. When I went to buy some, I was asked if I was over 18; I would just have to click “Yes” for it to be delivered to my door tomorrow.

There is evidence that the longer we wait, the more young people will be hooked on nicotine through vaping products. I do not think we need further evidence. How many more young people will be addicted by the time the plan is introduced? I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion, but I will divide the Committee on new clauses 31 and 32.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 31

Packaging and labelling of nicotine products

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”—(Mary Kelly Foy.)

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. There is a huge number of unpaid carers who we know about, and who recognise themselves as carers, but there will be a huge number who, as she says, do not see themselves in that way. They see caring for a loved one as part of their normal life, and as what they do; they do not recognise that they are providing care.

There is also a large, often unidentified, number of child carers. They care for their parents, grandparents and others, but they will not think of it in that way. They just think they are doing their bit to look after mum or dad, or granny or grandad. The hon. Lady is right to highlight the need for all of us—both in government and other Members—to make it as clear as possible that these people are carers and should be able to access support and help. There is support and help available, but people need to understand that they are in that category and are entitled to it. That is a long answer to basically say that I entirely agree with the hon. Lady.

We are not convinced that the provisions of new clause 39 are appropriate for the ICB, as a similar duty to that in the new clause is already held by and imposed on local authorities, so it risks causing duplication. The local authority will be part of the ICB and of the ICP, so we feel that the issue is captured.

Carers already have a legal right to an assessment of their needs from their local authority. Local authorities have a legal duty to meet needs identified through a carer’s assessment where the carer is deemed eligible. In 2019-20—the latest figures I have to hand—376,000 unpaid carers in England were assessed, reviewed, and/or supported. However, the number may well be a lot higher than that figure, which goes to the point made by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire.

We continue to work closely with stakeholders, care organisations and the wider sector to support carers. We will work with care users, providers and other partners to co-develop more detail on our plans for the reform of adult social care. We will publish further detail of our plans for reform in a White Paper later this year, building of course on the strong foundations of integration we are setting in this legislation. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston, would have been disappointed or concerned about me if I had not said that, and would have wondered what was going on.

New clause 40 introduces a definition of carer that includes—this goes to the point to which I have just responded—young carers, parent carers and adult carers. It seeks to bring clarity and to ensure that all carers, regardless of their age or their relationship with the person they care for, benefit from the measures in the Bill related to carers. The circumstances and needs of every unpaid carer are unique. Unpaid carers make a vital contribution to the lives of those they care for, and I know that every member of this Committee would want to put on record a tribute to them. It is important that we continue to work to understand carers’ needs and how to best support them, while reflecting the diversity of carers.

I have already discussed the measures in the Bill designed to promote the involvement of carers. “Carers” in this context should include anyone, child or adult, who cares, unpaid, for a friend or family member who, due to a lifelong condition, frailty, illness, disability, serious injury, mental health condition or even addiction, cannot cope without their support. In seeking clarity and inclusion, it is important that we do not inadvertently exclude groups of carers. The legislation as drafted is based on an everyday use of the term “carer”, and this allows for flexibility and the inclusion of all who provide unpaid care, in any shape or form, to a loved one or friend.

I appreciate, and to a large extent share, the shadow Minister’s intention of strengthening the legislation and seeking to bring clarity, so that those who are entitled to support know it, and can claim what they are entitled to. I want to reassure members of the Committee that we have today heard the concerns expressed about carers. I will take that away and carefully consider the issues, and see if we can continue to address them through the wider work of the Department on carers, and our ongoing discussions with organisations, many of which we deal with as constituency MPs, week in and week out, on their work in our constituencies.

For these reasons, I encourage the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston to consider not pressing his new clauses to a Division, but I look forward to hearing from him.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

For those who do not know, I should say that I was a carer for my severely disabled daughter for 27 years. Maria died six years ago; she suffered with cerebral palsy. I was very fortunate to be in a local authority that recognised the need for respite for carers. I was lucky enough to have a very generous package of six weeks, and that allowed me to engage with public life, have a social life and just recharge my batteries. However, other local authorities do not give such generous packages; it is a postcode lottery. When carers can no longer look after their loved one and that person has to be placed in social care, the cost to the public purse is huge.

On young carers, the issue is not just the caring role of young children. My children were classed as young carers, and the package they had was to enable them to enjoy social activities with other young people. They felt very left out of normal activities, because I was spending most of my time looking after Maria. It is very important that carers recognise that there is help out there, and help has to be consistent. As we know, local authorities have had their budgets cut massively, so what was once perhaps a gold star service for carers is down to a much lesser service.

A lot of carers I knew did not think they were carers and did not really want anything from the state. They said, “We’re just doing it because this is our loved one, and this is what we need to do.” However, the needs, health and wellbeing of unpaid carers are so important if we want them to continue doing the fantastic job that they do.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for relaying her family’s experience. She has articulated far better than I could why it is so important that we support carers, and young carers in particular.

I have listened to what the Minister said about the new clauses. I think he is keen to support this agenda, and there is clearly quite a lot of change happening in the Department over the next few months. We will keep an eye on how the issue of carers sits within that, and how ICPs work in practice, and will not push our new clauses to a vote. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 41

Review of implementation of NHS continuing healthcare by integrated care systems

“(1) Chapter 3 of Part 1 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008 (quality of health and social care) is amended as follows.

(2) After section 46A insert—

‘46B  Review and performance assessments: integrated care systems

The Commission must, each year—

(a) conduct a review of the implementation of NHS continuing healthcare by integrated care systems,

(b) assess the performance of these systems following the review, and

(c) publish a report of its assessment.’”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would require the review and assessment of NHS continuing healthcare systems.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Health and Care Bill (Fourth sitting)

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 9th September 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Thank you. Mary Kelly Foy.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

Q This is for Andy. It is noted that mental health provision has for far too long been seen as the Cinderella service of the health system. Indeed, there is very little in the Bill specifically around mental health. Given the growing number of people suffering with mental ill health and the shortage of services, is there enough in this Bill to satisfy you that mental health will be given parity of esteem alongside physical health?

Andy Bell: It is difficult to tell; the Bill is largely silent on mental health. If we had a system where there was genuinely equal regard for both mental and physical health, we would not have to worry about that, because we would know that the system would treat mental health fairly and equally, and there would be no disparity in the way it was thought about. Unfortunately, all our experience tells us that that is not what happens within many health systems at different levels, from very local to national, so we would like to see some assurances in the Bill.

From our point of view, that could happen in one of two ways. Legislation only gets you so far, but it could place specific duties on both NHS England and integrated care boards—I am being very careful in specifying integrated care boards here—that they must take action to ensure that mental and physical health are given equal regard in their decision making, particularly on resource allocation. We feel strongly that there needs to be a voice for mental health within integrated care boards. That is highly likely to happen within integrated care partnerships, but within integrated care boards we do not have confidence that mental health will be properly represented at the top table where important decisions about resource allocation are made.

We think that would help. There are no 100% safeguards in legislation, but one positive thing we have seen with the 2012 Act is that a clause at the very top of the Act talked about mental and physical health as one of the key purposes of the NHS, and that has been used positively and helpfully to make the case for parity in health systems up and down the country. A few simple words can sometimes make quite a big difference.

[Edward Timpson]

Q This is a question for Ed, building on the fact that you have, I think, fairly extensive experience of working with local authorities and supporting them on governance and scrutiny. Having direct involvement in NHS decision making on funding and so on is a fairly new role for local authorities, and different ICSs will have different sizes and geography; for instance, mine is Cheshire and Merseyside, which is one of the largest—I think it is three or four times the size of some other ICSs. Over and above being involved in the board, for local authorities in larger ICSs, where the emphasis on place could be lost if they are not more fused into the system, how do you think the Bill could help to ensure that that is the case, so that we get the right balance between their involvement in the decisions, based on their knowledge of their own population, and the wider regional decisions?

Ed Hammond: For me it starts with an understanding of what decisions are best made at system level and what decisions are best made at place level. Certainly, I would imagine one of the first things that ICBs and ICPs would need to do, once established, would be to determine how to set up a system-wide framework for ensuring equality and equity in terms of how its health and care service is delivered, and then determine how and where it is most appropriate that more detailed decisions come to be made at place level. Otherwise, the system simply becomes too unwieldy.

There are risks that those partners sitting at that system level will draw decision making into those spaces, rather than pushing it back out to localities, because it is the simplest, in many ways the most efficient and apparently the most co-ordinated way of doing it, but in practice it will not serve the interests of local accountability or better outcomes. That raises the prospect of certain services being delivered in different ways in different localities, depending on the political priorities of different councils, but that is local democracy—that is local government bringing its understanding of the demographics of the populations it serves into the conversation.

I think this can all be made to work if there is sufficient transparency in the system, so that those within and those outside it understand how decisions are being made, on what subjects, and by whom. When you have that clarity, it becomes easier to unpick what is happening at place level. Are decisions being made at system level that would be more appropriately made at a lower level? Is there consistency across the entire system? What does the geography mean for decision making and commissioning, and these kinds of things? It provides assurance, and it provides everybody with more confidence that decisions are being made properly in the interests of local people.

Going back to the point I made before, that is also why some external local accountability is so important, because effective local external accountability can challenge the system on whether the right decisions are being made at the right level, and whether they reflect and are responsive to what the local needs are. Local scrutiny committees are, at the moment, anchored at place level within local authorities. They are well able to publicly draw in the voice and concerns of the public about those kinds of issues, and transmit them to health and care partners so that there is a clear way for those concerns and issues to be responded to.

Health and Care Bill (Third sitting)

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 9th September 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

I remain a member of the BMA.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I am a member of Unison.

[The Chair]

Welcome Sara and Chaand. Will you kindly introduce yourselves, please?

Sara Gorton: Good morning. I am Sara—it is pronounced as if it is spelled with an h at the end. I am head of health at the trade union Unison.

Dr Chaand Nagpaul: My name is Dr Chaand Nagpaul. I am a GP in north London. I have been a GP for more than 30 years. I am chair of the BMA UK council. We represent doctors across the UK—more than 160,000. I represent all doctors of all types, working in hospitals, public health, general practice—you name it.

Health and Care Bill (Second sitting)

Mary Kelly Foy Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 7th September 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Davies]

Q Very good. Thank you. As a follow-up question to both panellists, could you comment on the benefits arising from the preventive measures in the Bill on the fluoridation of tap water and obesity?

Professor Maggie Rae: Obviously, from my position as president of faculty, I want more emphasis on prevention, so I am very pleased to see that focus on it, but I do not think it is quite enough yet. I think we would all recognise that part of the reason why we seemed to take the biggest hit on covid in terms of deaths and the effects of the virus was the ill health of our population. We are recognised as having one of the most unhealthy populations in Europe now, and that was not always the case. Yes, it is very pleasing to see the measures on obesity, but we need to recognise that most of the influence could come from the very local level.

I am sorry to say to colleagues and this eminent Committee that we could probably spend the whole meeting talking about fluoridation. I recognise the attempt to tackle the problems of oral health. Children’s teeth being extracted under general anaesthetic is a national disgrace; that money is so wasted in the NHS when we desperately need it to be spent on other health matters, and the time it takes for that operation is so dangerous for children. It is good to have this recognised, but I think it will be quite a slow burn, even with the legislation.

Some areas have tried to implement fluoridation. It has taken them years and they still have not succeeded. Could we perhaps persuade people? As well as focusing on fluoridation, could we have just a small investment in other methods to tackle oral health? One that is really effective, which I used myself as DPH, is simple toothbrushes and toothpaste. Sometimes we think public health measures take a long time, but I can guarantee that if that measure were implemented effectively you could see the changes within 12 months and would also end up saving the NHS a lot of money. I work closely with Councillor Jamieson in his role at the LGA and I hope that he would agree with me.

Cllr James Jamieson: I am going to agree with Maggie. I think that that is a general point we would make. Better healthcare does not start in a hospital; it starts in the community and it starts before you are born. It is about prevention, early intervention, public health, good food and all those things. We welcome measures to support that.

On the point about obesity, I would particularly say that although, yes, it is nice to be able to produce advertising, there is so much more we would like to do. This is not necessarily within the scope of the Bill, so I am not suggesting that, but, for instance, in licensing legislation, being able to take account of public health, which at the moment is specifically excluded, as well as being able to do so in planning legislation as regards where fast food places are and so forth, would be immensely helpful. This is a start; it is a small but positive step.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

Q One of our earlier witnesses touched on the social determinants of health—housing, green spaces, good jobs—being the greatest factor in a person’s healthy life and life expectancy. I am disappointed that there is nothing in the Bill that addresses those fundamental issues. Do you think that there is scope for them to be touched on, as well as in working with local authorities?

Even more remarkable as regards reducing health inequalities is the absence of any detail, duty or provision to tackle alcohol harm and tobacco control, which of course are the greatest factor in determining a person’s life expectancy—and further down the line they have the greatest impact on local authorities’ social care bills. Do you think they should be included in more detail in the Bill, with a duty to reduce health inequalities rather than just having “regard” to reducing them?

Cllr James Jamieson: I think we need to be cognisant of the fact that this is a Bill providing a framework. I completely agree with the comments made about health inequalities, good housing, green space and all those things—absolutely. I am a full advocate of the idea that health is three quarters determined by somebody’s environment and choices, and probably only a quarter by what the NHS does. That is really important. My slight concern is that if we get very prescriptive in legislation, it limits the ability to do the right thing.

The really important thing about this legislation is all the guidance and so forth that will come out of it, and where the funding goes. Our preference is to say, “Try not be too prescriptive in the legislation, but really engage with local government and public health on the guidance that comes out of this legislation.” A real priority has to be better places, better communities, better jobs, less pollution and all those things, but I do not think that that is something for legislation; I think it is very much about getting the guidelines right, and they will be different in different parts of the country. The issues that might be faced in a rural area are very different from those faced in an urban area. I do worry that if legislation is too prescriptive, it hampers rather than helps.

Professor Maggie Rae: Would you mind if I added some comments please, Chair?

[The Chair]

Please do.

Professor Maggie Rae: Just building on those comments from Councillor Jamieson on what I think is a very important question, there is a line in the Bill saying that the ICSs have to take note of advice from directors of public health. If we want ICSs to be population health organisations, we have to make sure that the legislation is strong enough to ensure that the advice is acted on. Our directors of public health have been highly trained and are able professionally to identify the needs of the population, identify where the health inequalities are and make sure that they can provide the ICSs, in terms of both the NHS-side board and the partnership board, with all the evidence they need about what will make a difference. It is the action that will make a difference and improve those outcomes that we all want. It would be very helpful to ensure that the Bill, if possible, is more explicit about that advice and which source it is coming from. We have worked very closely with the legislative team and the Bill team. I do not think anyone could fault the amount of hours they have spent discussing with stakeholders the details of the Bill, and Councillor Jamieson is also right that we cannot have everything in the Bill, but we want a true population-focused organisation.

That has to be the change that this legislation brings; it has to be an enabling legislative framework. We then need to ensure that the guidance, and, most importantly, the assurance process, allow some of the public health expertise to determine whether it is fit for purpose. It is possible that these organisations, and the excitement of the changes, could result in our having a more place-based population focus, but that will only be the case if we get it right and take account of those wider determinants such as education and housing—all the things that contribute to good health.