Higher Education: Part-time and Mature Students
Lord Nash Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Sharp of Guildford
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to reverse the decline in the number of part-time and mature students at higher education institutions.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, the decline in part-time and mature students partly reflects dramatic improvements in the job market and the strength of our Government’s long-term economic plan. However, we are committed to helping those who wish to enter higher education. That is why for the first time we have made available non means-tested loans to cover part-time tuition fees. We are also investing in higher level apprenticeships, with 13,200 new starts in the nine months to April this year, compared with just 2,200 in 2010-11.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford (LD)
My Lords, part-time education has traditionally been the route by which those in work have been able to upgrade their skills. We have seen this enormous drop of 55% in the number of part-time students—143,000 people dropping out of part-time education over the last four years since 2010-11. Given that we have an ageing population whom we expect to work ever longer hours, and that, as the CBI reports, there are already skill shortages, does the Minister agree that it is vital for us to retain this route whereby people can upgrade their skills—it is a far more flexible means than apprenticeships—and play a useful part in the economy?
Lord Nash
I agree that we are very keen to stimulate this sector and that is why we have introduced the loan scheme to which I referred. We had a very weak economy, which resulted in a number of employers not funding these schemes. We then had a dramatic turnaround and recovery in the economy, with the creation of 2.5 million new jobs in the private sector, which obviously has had an impact on people deciding what they want to do and what employers will fund. Of course, over 80% of students in part-time education are in work. We are very keen to stimulate demand in the sector. We have written to key players in the sector asking for their thoughts, and we are extremely open to ideas.
Lord Quirk (CB)
Is the Minister aware that the appalling drop in part-time studies affects seriously not only the major providers such as Birkbeck and the Open University but universities across the entire system, where part-time study has been held to be a little marginal and now risks being entirely junked, with the loss of a great deal of useful input into the higher education system? Is he further aware, as the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, has just said, that at a time when employers are crying out for a flexibly minded, flexibly trained workforce, this is an exact description of the output of part-time students, a third of whom are intent on changing their career as a result of such education?
Lord Nash
I have already made a similar point to the noble Baroness: we are aware of the decline. We are keen to stimulate further but it not just about university education; for instance, our higher and degree-level apprenticeships are the fastest-growing part of our apprenticeships programme. This is all about widening access and helping people to develop the skills they need so that British industry can be competitive internationally. More than half of the people on these courses are over 25.
Baroness Bakewell (Lab)
My Lords, I ask the Minister to address the solution to this problem, which lies within the remit of the Government. I speak as the president of Birkbeck, which has been very badly hit. Part-time education is being prevented from moving forward, and what is needed is the repeal of the 2008 policy that makes equal level qualifications not available for grant. If that folly of a policy was repealed, it would make a huge difference to those coming into part-time education. The Government are missing an important strand of policy, which would bring them great benefit.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend remind me which Government were in power in 2008?
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
My Lords, the original Question asked Her Majesty’s Government what plans they had to reverse the decline, which is very substantial. The Minister has offered only one suggestion, which is that loans will be available. Loans, on top of having to raise huge amounts in fees, mean that these students are going to be further in debt. Is that the only proposal he has?
Lord Nash
No, as I have already said, we have the higher and degree-level apprenticeships. We are committed to expanding the apprenticeship programme to 3 million over the next five years, adding to the 2.2 million we have already introduced. These are high-quality apprenticeships, involving employers at every level in curriculum design and delivery methodology. Some 140 trailblazers have already come up with 350 new standards, which have either been published or are in development.
Lord Bilimoria (CB)
My Lords, the questions so far have been about part-time students, and of course Birkbeck does brilliant work on that. The Question also asks about mature students. Can the Minister tell us what sort of funding is available to mature students for postgraduate degrees, particularly PhDs, and is supporting them a government priority? I speak as the chancellor of the University of Birmingham.
Baroness Andrews (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister has alluded three times so far to—
Baroness Brinton
My Lords, the Minister has said repeatedly in answering this Question that the Government want to stimulate the sector. If the issue is that employers will not provide support, what can the Government do to encourage employers to support part-time students, perhaps with some tax relief if they are supporting students gaining high-level qualifications which will benefit their businesses?
Baroness Andrews
My Lords, the Minister has referred three times to the expansion of apprenticeships, which is excellent, but that expansion should not take place at the expense of the destruction of further education. The cuts of 24% in the FE budget and the adult skills budget earlier this year mean a loss of 400,000 FE students in this year alone. How many of those will be in construction, engineering and creative skills—the future of the economy—and how many adults will not be able to access literacy and numeracy? How will that help us build the houses we need and the economy we need, and to get more families into work— the ambition of his Government, as I understand it?
Lord Nash
We have created 2.5 million more jobs in the private sector, which is about 2.5 million more than the Labour Party thought we would create. We fully recognise the importance of further education in getting people the skills they need. That is why we have committed nearly £4 billion in 2015-16 to adult learning and further education, including nearly £800 million to apprenticeships funding.
Creative Sector: Educational Provision
Lord Nash Excerpts(9 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Aberdare
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they plan to ensure that the United Kingdom retains its global position in the creative sector in the light of plans announced in June to require all state secondary school pupils to study five English Baccalaureate core subject areas, which exclude any music, arts or culture element.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, all pupils should study a foundation of core subjects, including opportunities to study the arts and creative subjects. The best schools know how to deliver this combination. The creative industries continue to play a major role in our global economy, with the value of services exported totalling £18 billion in 2013 and 1.8 million people employed, which is up by 16% since 2011. EBacc qualifications support the growing creative sector, helping schools to develop well-rounded young people.
Lord Aberdare (CB)
My Lords, the creative sector is indeed a UK strength and a key driver for improving productivity, as evidenced by the growing business demand for creative skills. But the Government’s focus on EBacc subjects is already causing some schools to reduce their provision of creative and cultural subjects, and making the EBacc compulsory is likely to lead to more doing so. Moreover, the take-up of these subjects is often significantly lower among the most deprived students. Why do the Government appear to have moved away from the broader and more balanced Progress 8 approach, which measures schools in eight subject areas, including up to three outside the EBacc subjects? Further, what steps will the Minister take to ensure that students, especially disadvantaged students, do not miss out on studying creative and cultural subjects which are so vital for social mobility and UK productivity?
Lord Nash
We will continue to use Progress 8 as the main accountability measure. GCSE entries in arts subjects in 2014 are actually up 5% on 2012, while the performing arts have nearly doubled. Of course we want all pupils to study a broad curriculum, and in particular the focus should be on enabling disadvantaged children to have access to a wide range of studies. Ofsted will inspect on this.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister take this opportunity to applaud the work of many arts organisations? I should declare an interest as a member of the boards of the Royal Shakespeare Company and the Roundhouse in Camden. The education work delivered not only by the large organisations but also by many smaller ones across the country is of outstanding quality. Does he agree that they find it dispiriting and difficult when they discover that actually there is a diminution of interest in the creative subjects in a number of schools, and that they do not get quite the response they once did to the programmes they offer? Does he think that that is really a good idea?
Lord Nash
I do applaud the work of the organisations referred to by the noble Baroness, but the statistics are quite clear. Uptake of GCSE subjects is expanding. All pupils take on average nine GCSEs, and with Progress 8 we hope to encourage pupils to study a broad curriculum with arts subjects.
Lord Baker of Dorking (Con)
Is my noble friend aware that schools up and down the country are reducing their curriculum very significantly in order to concentrate on the academic subjects included in the EBacc? That is the case not only in the arts and culture; virtually all technical studies below the age of 16 have now disappeared in our schools. In design and technology, an important subject introduced into the curriculum in 1988, the numbers have fallen in each of the last five years both for GCSE and at A-level. What our students need in most of our schools is a much wider range of studies.
Lord Nash
One has to look back to where we have come from. Under the Labour Government, the number of pupils studying a core suite of academic subjects collapsed from 50% to 22% as the Labour Government perpetuated the scandal of equivalents. I make no apologies for the EBacc. We are now back to 39% of pupils taking these core subjects which are acknowledged to give pupils, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, the cultural capital that they need.
The Lord Bishop of Peterborough
My Lords, does the Minister agree that education is about not just national productivity but the whole of human flourishing? The arts, music and cultural subjects in general are essential to that.
Lord Addington (LD)
My Lords, will the Minister give us an answer which refers to the emphasis that should be placed on encouraging voluntary activity? It has been encouraged by all Governments, and so much is done in the voluntary sector. What are we doing to encourage people to get a good grounding so that this thing which lightens up our lives is encouraged?
Lord Nash
All good schools will encourage their pupils to engage in these activities. It is all part of a well-rounded education. We are seeing this across the board. We are also seeing the creation of new free schools that focus specifically on arts and music. We have the East London Arts and Music Academy, the Plymouth School of Creative Arts, and my noble friend Lord Baker will be pleased to hear that we have a number of UTCs specialising in creative and digital media.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that the point about a truly rounded school education is not only that it is a good in itself, but that it is the very thing that employers demand?
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister reflect further on the intervention of his noble friend Lord Baker? I remember the noble Lord as Secretary of State when I chaired an education authority. Will the Minister please go away and consider the importance in the Government’s strategy of looking carefully at those subjects—design and technology—in detail to see what has happened to them? I did not always agree with the noble Lord, Lord Baker, but I agree with him that too many able pupils do not exercise the right basic education to go forward in the way the Government want with design and technology and all those subjects.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, I endorse very strongly what my noble friend Lord Baker of Dorking said. Will the Minister agree that in the 21st century no country can really claim to call itself civilised unless every pupil leaves school with a knowledge of music, the arts, and the history of the country?
Lord Touhig (Lab)
My Lords, if the Minister walks through the Members’ Cloakroom he will see a bag—I think it is on the peg of the noble Lord, Lord Colwyn—emblazoned with the words, “Music makes the world a better place”. The Secretary of State for Education seems to agree because in a recent speech she revealed that she used to sing with the City of London Choir. In the same speech she said that every young person should,
“have the opportunity to discover how the arts can enrich their lives”.
Given this enthusiasm for culture, why are the Government deliberately excluding study of the arts from the English baccalaureate?
Lord Nash
All the evidence from around the world is that pupils need a core suite of academic subjects to engage their intellect and curiosity, so that they will then want to study a broader and more cultural range of subjects. We are investing heavily in music hubs, and I go back to my point that the take-up in EBacc is driving a much richer and more cultural curriculum in schools.
Children’s Centres
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years ago)
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Baroness Massey of Darwen
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many children’s centres have closed in the last three years, how many are likely to close during the next year, and what assessment they have made of the impact of such future closures on families.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, since 2013, 214 children’s centres have closed, and from 2010, 705 additional sites have opened. Any closures come from local authorities merging centres to allow services to be delivered more efficiently. What matters most is not the number of buildings but how families benefit from services, and a record number of more than 1 million parents are doing so. The department does not collect information on the number of anticipated closures but expects local authorities to ensure that they meet the needs of local families. This week we will announce a consultation on how we can maximise the impact of children’s centres to ensure that they continue to help the families most in need.
Baroness Massey of Darwen (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that response and welcome the consultation, but I am sure that he would agree that it is not just the number of parents and children attending that matters but the depth and breadth of the quality of children’s centres, which is falling, as are the numbers being opened. Is he aware of a recent report by the National Children’s Bureau and the Child Poverty Action Group on children’s centres, which said that the early intervention grant to local authorities has dropped by 55% since 2010? Can he assure me that the Government are still keen to support parents and children?
Lord Nash
I am aware of the report that the noble Baroness refers to. The overall pot for early intervention has grown to £2.5 billion, and we give councils the freedom to use their funds in the way that will best meet the needs of their community. I was delighted to see that the report referred to by the noble Baroness recommends that local authorities should share effective approaches, because it is about innovation. We have seen quite a lot of that around the country. Staffordshire, for instance, has introduced family hubs; Hertfordshire has introduced Family Matters meetings; in Islington they have a First 21 Months programme, which improves communication between children’s centres, GPs, midwives and health visitors; and in Newcastle they have introduced community family hubs.
Lord Storey (LD)
The Minister will be aware of the evaluation of children’s centres being carried out by his own department and Oxford University. That report has shown that the most valued services after play and learning are those related to health—health visitors, midwives and clinics. Is it possible for him to talk to his colleague Minister about how he can ensure that these much-needed services are provided in the most disadvantaged areas so that it will not be as much of a lottery as to whether they are there or not?
Lord Nash
My noble friend Lord Prior has already given an excellent answer in which he mentioned the 10% increase in midwives and the 4,000 increase in health visitors. Of course, from September of this year public health commissioning for children under five will go to local authorities; I am sure that that will help the matter.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (CB)
My Lords, the Minister rightly stressed the role of children’s centres in dealing with the special needs of families and children. Will the same principle of targeting inform the Government’s plans for rolling out the extra 15 free hours of childcare?
Lord Touhig (Lab)
My Lords, every farmer in the House will know the phrase, “Do not eat the seed-corn”. If you do, you will survive this year, but next year you will starve, because nothing new has been planted. That is just what the Government are doing by cutting funding to children’s centres: they are eating the seed-corn. For short-term financial gain they are storing up problems for the future. The closure of children’s centres is a malign act and, frankly, very stupid. Therefore—patience, patience; the noble Lord’s time will come—can the Minister say whether the Government will accept that investing in our children’s future by funding children’s centres should be a national policy objective, not left to the whims and vagaries of local councils, many of which have huge financial budgetary problems?
Lord Nash
I accept the importance of the matter, and I was delighted to see the ECCE survey, which showed that 98% of parents were “happy” or “very happy” with the services provided by their children’s centre. I know that the Labour Party likes to hark back to a golden age of Sure Start, but in 2009 the National Audit Office reported that children’s centres then were failing to reduce inequality and many were unviable, and Ofsted reported at the same time that half were not reaching out to vulnerable families. It is essential that we reach out to vulnerable families and that the facilities are tailored in the most flexible way to reach the families who need them.
The Earl of Listowel (CB)
My Lords, can the Minister say what targeted services and support are offered to homeless families who may not be able to access children’s centres?
Lord Nash
Of course I empathise with the practical challenges that such families face. Housing authorities and children’s services work together locally to ensure that the needs of children in homeless families are met. This should include the role that local children’s centres can play in supporting such families. The Housing Act places a duty on authorities to co-operate with social services in situations where children may be made homeless intentionally or may be threatened with being made homeless intentionally.
Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)
My Lords, what arrangements have the Government made for regular reporting back by local authorities about the provision of children’s centres? At the moment there seem to be no national arrangements made by government for reporting back on what is provided.
Childcare Bill [HL]
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 28 and 38. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord True, for raising this issue and I hope I can satisfy him that we are keen to stimulate new provision and not crowd it out by regulations. As someone who has fielded against Boycott, I can assure him that his approach is deceptive. He does actually hit the ball extremely hard.
As I explained in Committee last week, no provider is required to offer places under the existing entitlement. It is of course very pleasing that so many choose to do so. I do not expect that providers will be required to provide places for these additional hours should they choose not to do so. If they do not, they will not be prevented from providing places under the existing entitlement of 15 hours. We have no plans to make the regime more burdensome. If a provider is providing the existing 15 hours, he will have a service-level agreement with a local authority and if that is how he decides to provide the extra 15 hours, he will have a service-level agreement for that provision. However, if a provider decides not to deliver this, there will be no plans for extra regulation.
The noble Lord asked whether failure to provide places will be reflected in Ofsted assessments. A rigorous inspection regime is important to ensuring the effective use of government funding and improving the quality of provision that children receive, regardless of whether they accept children under the free entitlement or not. However, I reassure the noble Lord that whether or not a provider offers free places will not be a factor in Ofsted inspection judgments. Of course, the quality of provision provided to such children will continue to be inspected. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, that, as I said last week, if grandparents are working they can therefore qualify for the provision. I will reflect on the points made by the noble Lord, Lord True, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and I am happy to discuss those with them privately. I hope I have reassured the noble Lord others who have spoken about their concerns. I therefore urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord True
My Lords, I am very grateful, as ever, to my noble friend for listening carefully; I found what he said very reassuring. I will obviously want to look closely at Hansard, but what is important above all is his clear commitment to continuing the dialogue with providers and to understand the mixed nature of the sector. Having heard what he said, particularly his assurance regarding Ofsted—and in no way resisting the comments about quality, which is vital—I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
The Earl of Listowel
My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to the national living wage. I believe that two former advisers to the Prime Minister recently endorsed a move towards the living wage. Clearly, this Bill would be that much more effective and there would be much more incentive for people to take what is offered in it if we moved to a national living wage. What current position do the Government take towards the gradual introduction of a national living wage?
Lord Nash
In Amendment 39, the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, seeks assurance that the Government will monitor and report on the impact of the entitlement. She spoke with passion about the importance of supporting low-income working families with the cost of childcare, which is the subject of today’s debate, and I will confine my remarks to the subject of today’s discussion. I agree that it is extremely important and must be kept in mind at all stages of policy development in the early years.
The Government have ably and amply demonstrated their commitment to supporting low-income working families with the cost of childcare and to improving the educational outcomes of all children, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds. As my noble friend and I have set out in this debate and in previous discussions, the Government have committed to increasing childcare support within universal credit by around £350 million to provide 85% of childcare costs from 2016 where the lone parent or both parents in a couple are in work. The Government have introduced an entitlement to free early education for the most disadvantaged two year-olds, while the early years pupil premium will provide more support to improve outcomes for disadvantaged three and four year-olds.
The Government have demonstrated their commitment to understanding the impact of the provision of free childcare through previous projects such as the Effective Pre-School, Primary and Secondary Education project and the new longitudinal study of early education and development, as my noble friend and I mentioned previously. The Government also collect a range of data on the take-up of the existing entitlements, including the number of children taking up a place. The most recent data were published on 25 June. They reflect the position in January of this year and are extremely encouraging. As detail of the new entitlement is developed further, we will consider what further data should be collected to enable effective monitoring of the new entitlement.
The Government recognise the benefits and importance of evaluating the impact of significant policies such as this but do not believe that it is necessary or appropriate to legislate for the production of a report or to define the timeline and content of such a report. I therefore urge the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Pinnock
Given that detailed answer, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Childcare Bill [HL]
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
It may be helpful if I report to the House that there have been productive discussions in the usual channels about the next stage of this Bill and that as a result of these discussions we will be looking to arrange the Report stage for October when the House returns from the conference recess.
Noble Lords will be aware that last Friday the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee published its report on this Bill and other Bills before the House. We are of course mindful of that report and its recommendations in respect of this Bill and intend to prepare and publish our response in good time before Report, including tabling government amendments where appropriate. Both these points are relevant to our discussions on the amendments that have been tabled for consideration this afternoon. I hope it is therefore helpful to have set them out at this first available moment in proceedings this afternoon.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and I had a helpful conversation last night. We agreed about the importance of making progress with this Bill and the important commitment to children and parents that it makes. I know that all in this House are agreed about that. We also agree that it is important that the voices and expertise of parents, providers, local authorities and employers properly inform the provisions we will make. I know that noble Lords want us to take time to get that right and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, has raised many questions about it. The noble Baroness asked if I could be specific about the further information that will be available before Report to confirm and build upon the commitment I made in my policy statement that I sent to noble Lords last week. It is our intention to provide a full update to the House on how we will deliver this extended entitlement and an update on our plans to pilot it in 2016. This will take account of our consultations with parents, providers, local authorities and employers over the summer, the helpful contributions which I anticipate from your Lordships tonight and of course the recommendation of the Delegated Powers Committee, which asked for clarity about how we intend to use the powers.
In time for Report, therefore, the House will be able to scrutinise that information and we will respond formally to the Delegated Powers Committee. If appropriate we will bring forward amendments to the Bill which respond to its recommendations. We will also of course pay careful attention to the views that the Delegated Powers Committee has expressed about affirmative procedure. As noble Lords are aware, it is our intention to consult fully on draft regulations and guidance in the first part of 2016 after Royal Assent. In this regard, I am lucky and extremely grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, has agreed to work with me and the department to find a way in which we can take advantage of the invaluable expertise of members of the Select Committee on Affordable Childcare and others in this House to work with us on those regulations in due course to ensure that they are thoroughly fit for purpose.
Meanwhile I am delighted to confirm that we have already deliberated across government on the points raised at Second Reading and by the Delegated Powers Committee about the provision in Clause 1(5)(g) which will allow us to establish a body corporate. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, has tabled Amendment 18 to remove that provision and I am pleased to inform the House that it is my intention to accept that amendment tonight. I beg to move.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, I apologise for detaining the House prior to Committee but I had given notice to the Government that I would be speaking on this matter. I am grateful to the noble Lord for his explanation. It is unusual when a Minister moves a Bill to be taken in Committee that he makes such a lengthy statement and I think it is an indication of the concern that has been expressed around your Lordships’ House that he has chosen to do so today. It is helpful to a degree and I am grateful to him for doing that. Perhaps we would not have had that statement today had it not been for the report from the two committees and our intention to speak today prior to Committee.
This is an important Bill, and we all want to ensure that there is proper and effective consideration of it. However, the way in which the Government have brought forward the Bill has serious implications for how we as a House consider legislation and fulfil our constitutional obligation as a revising Chamber. We cannot revise that which is not there. The primary role of your Lordships’ House is effective scrutiny. That Ministers accept so many amendments in your Lordships’ House, and propose others following our debates, is evidence that this role is valued by Governments in improving legislation.
At Second Reading, concerns were raised about the lack of detail in the Bill from all sides of the House, including from noble Lords on the Government Benches. Since that debate, both the Constitution Committee and the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee have reported. The Constitution Committee today says that this is, “a particularly egregious example” of the kind of legislation coming forward from government, and,
“an example of a continuing trend of constitutional concern to which we draw the attention of the House”.
The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, in its report published on Friday, agreed with many of the concerns that were raised at Second Reading and said that it was:
“Unable to understand why the Bill has been presented in a skeleton form only”.
Rarely has this House seen such stark criticism of a Government’s failure to provide the information needed to allow proper consideration of legislation at the start of a Bill for Second Reading, or indeed for Committee. The Delegated Powers Committee rejected the Government’s bizarre assertion in their report that,
“too much detail on the face of the Bill risks obscuring the principal duties and powers from Parliamentary scrutiny”.
Surely it is the purpose of this House to examine the detail of a Bill. The committee also rejected the notion that regulations can be published at a later date to deal with what the Government referred to as,
“operational, administrative and technical details”.
The committee has been very clear that the use of regulations in this way is “inappropriately wide”, “flawed”, “vague” and that more detail is essential, otherwise,
“the House will have insufficient information … for a properly informed debate”.
Most damning of all, the committee also rejected,
“the Government's attempt to dignify their approach to delegation by referring to a need to consult”.
I think we heard from the Minister’s statement that the committee is highly regarded by your Lordships’ House and by Governments, who rarely fail to give effect to its recommendations. This is not at all a party-political matter—far from it. The committee is cross-party, and we on these Benches support the aims of the Bill. However, for this House to do its job it must have more than the bones of a policy to scrutinise. Our concerns, as the Government will understand, are wider than the Bill. The fact that the Minister has been brought to the House to make quite an unusual statement before the start of Committee today, as welcome as that is, is an indication that the information to date is completely inadequate. Therefore, with the wider concerns that no Government should consider this to be an appropriate approach to legislation or business in your Lordships’ House, I would be grateful if he can clarify some points.
The Minister said that there have been discussions among the usual channels, and the Report stage will not come forward before October. I will press him a bit further, as I was not 100% clear about that from the other comments he made. We are looking for guarantees and assurances on just three points about information being available, not by a specific date but prior to consideration on Report. The Minister may have addressed those points in his comments, but I will be grateful if he could confirm, first, that the committee’s report is followed up by the Government and effect given to its recommendations to amend the Bill. He said that he would take consideration and take note, but I was not sure if he said that he would bring forward amendments as the committee recommended. Secondly, the draft regulations that were provided for consideration must also be available prior to Report. Thirdly, the most crucial piece of information we require is that the financial report, which is the basis on which this policy will succeed or fail, will be made available before Report.
We do not in any way want to delay consideration in Committee, but we recognise—I think the Minister has gone some way towards recognising it today—that without this information, despite the best efforts of noble Lords who will take part in this debate, scrutiny will be inadequate. That information is essential for Report, otherwise we could not consider the Bill effectively. Finally, on behalf of the whole House, can we have a categorical assurance from the Government that this will not be their approach to any future legislation?
Baroness Fookes (Con)
My Lords, I hope that the House and the Minister will forgive me if I intervene briefly as the chairman of the regulatory powers committee. I accept that it was a hard-hitting report; none the less, I think that it was a fair one. On the other hand, I welcome my noble friend the Minister’s offer to postpone Report stage, and the various ways in which he is trying to put right what I think must be accepted as a mistake. However, I think that all this could have been avoided if one of two ways had been followed by the Government in this matter—either by introducing a draft Bill, where all the details could have been fleshed out, or by the time-honoured method of introducing a Green Paper for consultation, followed by a White Paper setting out broadly the regulations and Bill that they wanted to see. In those cases, we would have had no worries at all.
Lord Nash
My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords across the House for expressing their support for this extended provision. I have already commented on the Delegated Powers Committee’s report and our gratitude to that committee, and the fact that we will reflect very carefully on its findings and bring forward any appropriate amendments on Report. Regulations will not be available until after Report but we will report by then on the findings of the funding review. We will have evidence from the pilots in 2016, before the provision starts in earnest in 2017. We certainly take the report of the Select Committee on Affordable Childcare extremely seriously. We are studying it in great detail and look forward to discussing the details of the Bill with its members on and off the Floor of the House.
The Bill is very clear on what it sets out to achieve. It places a duty on the Secretary of State to make available 30 hours of free childcare for working parents. That pledge was in the Conservative Party manifesto at the general election and is similar to what was in the Labour Party’s manifesto. I make no apology for the fact that we are getting on with delivering that pledge. The parents want it, the sector wants to know where it is and is, indeed, pregnant with anticipation for this provision. We have already had 500 responses to the funding review call for evidence. Of course we want to work with the House and our stakeholders to make sure we get the delivery right. I know that there is a lot of good will around the House to help us achieve this and I look forward to working together to do that. Taking all those points into account, I hope that we can now proceed to Committee.
Lord True
My Lords, this is very much a debate on Amendment 1, and I welcome it—it must not be another Second Reading debate—but the points in the amendment seem to be the essence of good governance. Even if my noble friend is unable to accept the amendment, I am sure that he would be the first to say that government will be constantly reviewing the cost of providing childcare and constantly consulting. I am already grateful for the assurances that I have had that he will consult childcare providers. So in that sense the spirit of it is agreed. Of course, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, that longitudinal and technical study is extremely important. Without going over where we have been before, policy should be founded on consideration of good information and be brought forward in due process, and we are moving towards that.
I have one mild stricture for the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. She said that she did not care about what was in the government manifesto. That is a perfectly reasonable personal thought, but I think Mr Lloyd George from her Benches reminded this House that it ought to have a care for the manifesto of a newly elected Government. So I know that she does not oppose this Bill, but I hope that it is not going to be a doctrine that we hear from the Liberal Democrats—that they do not care too much what the elected Government have promised.
I wanted to probe further on regulation. I shall read Hansard very carefully tomorrow. My noble friend does not necessarily have to reply in detail; it may be something that he wants to give further thought to. But on the question of regulations—maybe draft regulations, not the final regulations—the fact is that the wrong regulations under this Bill, and under its wide powers, could drive small, private and voluntary settings out of existence, just as the wrong sort of heat drives our trains off our railways, it seems. That will be one of the concerns that I express as we go through the Bill. It is reasonable for Parliament to want to avoid the wrong sort of regulations on behalf of those whom we represent. Of course, I declare a particular interest as the leader of a local authority that may have to implement those regulations and as the husband of a provider who may have to respond to them. I hope that between now and October my noble friend will see whether we can show a little bit of ankle on the regulations, because some of them could be literally life and death, not only to businesses and voluntary organisations but to the hard-working women, if I may use that phrase —they are predominantly women—who work in these settings, many of them part time. So I would be grateful for the most that he can do to help us on regulations.
In the amendment proposed by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, of course I agree that value for money is important. Once upon a time, Her Majesty’s Treasury was very interested in value for money before any policy came forward; now it seems that we are looking into affordability once the policy has been published. The value-for-money argument has another aspect to it that I hope we will not lose sight of. I recognise that the Government are committed to this principle. However, this policy, we are told, is going to be funded by taking away benefit from people earning more than £150,000 a year who are provident enough to save for their retirement. That money is going to be given to another set of people, many of them earning more than £150,000 a year, who, you might say, are not provident enough to put a bit of money aside to pay for childcare for their children. That could be a bit of a merry-go-round, to use a phrase that we have heard lately.
As the policy evolves, I hope that we will consider whether the state, the Government and the taxpayers are getting the best value for their money—not only what parents get in terms of providers; that is an issue of quality. This looks potentially—we shall see—to be a very expensive policy with a very substantial dead-weight cost involved in it of paying for a lot of people for something that they pay for already.
I do not expect an answer but I hope that that thought will inform a little the consideration of the implementation of the policy. Having slightly enlarged on the noble Earl’s Amendment 29, I hope that that aspect of value for money will be kept in mind as development of the Bill goes forward.
Lord Nash
My Lords, in this group, I will speak to Amendments 1, 27, 40, 41 and 42, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and to Amendments 29 and 38A, tabled by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland. I will attempt to flesh out a sequence of events and a road map which the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Andrews, spoke about. I will write to noble Lords about this and place a copy in the Library well before Report.
The Government are committed to delivering the provisions in the Childcare Bill in a way that is flexible, affordable and high quality for parents. A number of amendments in this group refer to specific activities that have been discussed with reference to the Motion to move the Bill into Committee and that were covered in the policy statement published last week. As I clarified on Second Reading, the Government are reviewing the cost of providing childcare and have committed to increase the average funding rate paid to providers. It is essential that the rate that we pay is fair for providers, value for money for taxpayers and consistent with the Government’s fiscal plans. I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, in Amendment 29 that value for money must be a consideration for all aspects of government spending, and the early years should be no different. The extension of the free entitlement is a significant government investment.
Last month, the Government launched a call for evidence as part of the funding review and, as I have said, we have already had more than 500 responses. As I have also said, we will report back on the review’s findings by Report and will then be able to say a lot more about the delivery model. I can confirm that we want childminders to be able to deliver the extra 15 hours of childcare, as they already deliver the universal 15 hours.
On 25 June, I wrote to noble Lords with an assessment of the impact of the Bill on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, child poverty, the public sector equality duty and the family test. The collective conclusion of these assessments is that the extension of the free childcare entitlement will have a positive impact for children and families. I can confirm to noble Lords that the Government will publish a full impact assessment on the extent of free entitlement when draft regulations are published for consultation in due course.
The Government want to engage with parents, providers, local authorities, employers and representative bodies about how parents currently access childcare and how it is delivered. This will begin shortly. We want to hear what is important to parents in choosing a childcare provider, and their views on how the extended entitlement will best meet their childcare needs.
Lord Nash
My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 3 and 31, regarding the model of delivery for the additional entitlement. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, for raising this important issue and bringing their considerable experience to the debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, for his congratulations to my wife on her birthday and reciprocate by congratulating him on his daughter’s impending marriage. I initially thought that Thursday was a rather odd day to get married, but then I remembered from personal experience that, given the Welsh legendary reputation for hospitality, a Welsh wedding can easily start on a Thursday and run right through to the Sunday night. The noble Lord will certainly have the weather for it.
There are many views about the best way to deliver childcare for working parents, including those in the excellent report from the affordability committee, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland. We believe that we should take stock of all such views before setting out the delivery model for the additional 15 hours. That is only right and proper in a consultation process.
With respect to Amendment 3, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, no doubt have in mind existing legislation under the Childcare Act 2006 that places a statutory duty on local authorities to secure early education free of charge for eligible children. The amount currently prescribed under that duty is, of course, 15 hours a week for 38 weeks, although this can be stretched over more weeks per year when parents wish and providers offer the option to do so.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, said, delivery of the current entitlement has been phenomenally successful. Statistics published last week show that more children than ever before are taking up their entitlement. Around 1.3 million three and four year-olds now access the entitlement—some 96% of all children of those ages. Furthermore, around 157,000 two year-olds have been reported as taking up a free place—some 58% of those eligible. This is excellent progress for a programme focused on those least likely to participate in formal childcare. I put on record my gratitude to all those in local authorities and elsewhere who have worked to ensure the early success of the programme.
The Government are currently looking at the lessons that can be drawn from the existing delivery model for the free early education entitlement and considering the simplest and most efficient way to deliver the additional 15 hours of free childcare to working families, many of whom will already be paying for additional hours or provision outside the free entitlement. The extended entitlement must be delivered in a way that is flexible for parents and providers, and funded through an efficient mechanism that, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, reaches those who are disadvantaged in particular. Doubling the free entitlement is, however, a significant change for the system and it would be remiss of us not to pause at this early stage in the process and ask stakeholders, including local authorities and noble Lords, whether they have views about alternative approaches to delivery that could work, and that could deliver the quality, flexibility and efficiency that we want to see.
Baroness Andrews
Can I ask the noble Lord something that is slightly puzzling me? I understand that, under Section 6 of the 2006 Act, local authorities are required to provide sufficient childcare as far as is reasonably practical, but I also understand from research that has been done that many local authorities are not undertaking childcare sufficiency audits, which obviously means that they will not provide sufficient childcare. Given the new responsibility given to the Secretary of State, is that the sort of thing that he will be able to require local authorities to do?
Lord True
My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a very interesting point. I will intervene on a slightly different tack. I have tried to present myself as friendly and caring so far, and I hope I am, but we have of course just heard a debate which has lasted half an hour with a range of different aspirations. Some are very worthy, including those on behalf of the homeless, grandparents and people with wider parental responsibilities, and some relate to whether different types of things are work or not. I have not counted how many categories have been suggested by your Lordships, but there are probably 10 and maybe 12, each of which has to be assessed and policed by somebody. I do not want to try my noble friend again, but this problem of defining the frontier and policing the entitlement arises from what I called earlier the net curtain between the so-called working and the so-called non-working—although there are wider issues in relation to broader parental responsibility.
At the moment we have a beautifully simple system: someone comes with a child of three or four; the providers simply tell the local authorities the numbers; a return is made; and money is given to the providers and paid over. Each one of these aspirations requires a different sort of assessment, probably by a different part of the public sector. It may even touch people who do not touch the public sector—there are sad cases of people who are deeply involved in caring but very hard to reach. I venture to say to the Committee that trying to get everything into one bottle will be extremely difficult. If the Minister wishes to keep the net curtain as he goes forward, there may be wisdom in trying to find different types of authority with the entitlement to do the assessment rather than putting it through.
I would prefer to keep it simple. Universal benefits are much simpler, although a means test can be applied if it is wanted. But I recoil with some fear, not particularly from the point of view of the local authority but from thinking about public administration, the ethical doubts and challenges, the frontiers that have to be defended, the rows and the unintended injustices that will occur from having too complex a system where it is hard to define the frontiers between working and non-working in a way that is perceived as “fair” and therefore sustainable. I believe that this debate illustrates the point I have been trying to make about public policy: good intentions, unless we are very careful in framing the regulations, will lead us into some very difficult places—and I hope that they never become dark ones.
Lord Nash
My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 5, 8, 9, 11, 25, 26 and 33. This group covers a range of amendments on eligibility. I appreciate the intentions of noble Lords in laying these amendments and seeking further clarity on the definition of “working parent”. Perhaps I can clear up one point immediately, on whether a parent is someone with parental responsibility. This is defined in the Bill, in Clause 1(12)(a), which states that a,
“‘parent’, in relation to a child, includes any individual who … has parental responsibility for the child”.
The Government’s intention with this new entitlement is to support hard-working parents with the cost of childcare and to enable them, where they want, to return to work or work more. As I announced at Second Reading, parents working eight hours per week, including those who are self-employed, will be entitled to this additional provision.
The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, is well known for championing the case for support of the most disadvantaged, and he is absolutely right to do so. The Government provide a wide range of support to all families, especially the most disadvantaged. All families are of course entitled to 15 free hours of early education for three and four year-olds. Recognising that some children were missing out on the benefits of early education, we extended this to the most disadvantaged two year-olds. In particular, I know that the noble Earl will have welcomed that this includes looked-after children. We have been encouraging local authorities to ensure that many of these children can benefit from the support that is available.
The noble Earl raised the important issue of homeless families. I empathise of course with the practical challenges that such families face. Housing authorities and children’s services work together locally to ensure that the needs of children in homeless families are met. The Housing Act 1996 places a duty on authorities to co-operate with social services where children may be homeless intentionally or threatened with homelessness intentionally. However, I will be very happy to meet with the noble Earl on this matter. The Government are committed to supporting vulnerable groups such as care leavers. Our statutory guidance makes clear that local authorities, through the pathway planning process, must assess the needs and ambitions of their young people and set out how they will support them.
Amendment 9, in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, would include parents,
“on courses to improve their literacy or numeracy”.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Pinnock and Lady Tyler, have, in separate amendments, also proposed that parents engaged in education or training or undertaking voluntary work or work experience for a minimum of eight hours per week should also qualify. As I have explained, the intention of this additional entitlement is to support working parents. If parents work at least eight hours per week, they will qualify regardless of whether they are engaged in education, training, voluntary work or additional work experience.
It may help the Committee if I explain the support that parents who are studying may already receive, in addition to the existing free entitlement. Parents who are under the age of 20 and are studying a publicly funded course are eligible for the Care to Learn scheme. This can provide vital financial support for childcare costs of up to £175 per child per week. For parents over the age of 20, discretionary learner support and childcare grants may also be available, depending on the nature of the education and training that parents participate in.
Where a child is deemed to be at risk of suffering or likely to suffer significant harm, the local authority has clear duties to investigate and to safeguard and promote the child’s welfare. This might include the provision of access to childcare provided by the local authority as part of a wider support plan.
Where a child is looked after, the local authority must make arrangements for their care, which might include support for childcare. The local authority must provide a fostering allowance which covers the full cost of caring for the child. For this reason, foster carers are not eligible for additional support through tax-free childcare or child tax credits for children who have been placed with them. We of course value the important role that foster carers undertake in looking after some of our most vulnerable children. However, whether foster care is considered work under the eligibility criteria for this additional childcare support is more complicated. I would welcome a further conversation outside the Chamber with the noble Earl on this issue.
I now turn to Amendment 25. The noble Baroness, Lady Massey, has rightly recognised the important role that grandparents play in the lives of children. In particular, some willingly and unselfishly accept the role as main carer for their grandchildren at a time in their lives that they should be able to dedicate to themselves after bringing up their own children. When grandparents have parental responsibility and meet the requirements that they are working, I hope the noble Baroness will be delighted to hear that they, too, will be eligible to benefit from the new entitlement. This will allow them to maintain their work or increase their hours so that they can support their grandchildren, safe in the knowledge that they will be well looked after.
Baroness Massey of Darwen
I apologise, because I know that everyone wants to get to supper, but I have a clarification point. In the Childcare Act 2006, which is quoted in the Bill, it says that,
‘“parent’ means a parent of a young child, and includes any individual who … has parental responsibility for a young child, or … has care of a young child”.
Did I understand the Minister to say that grandparents would still have to be working grandparents or that they would qualify because they would have parental responsibility or care for a child? Many of them are not working because they are too old or they have retired. Could he clarify that for me?
The Earl of Listowel
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his careful reply and his kind offer of a meeting to discuss homeless families and the status of foster carers. I note particularly what the noble Lord, Lord True, said about the complications of making such amendments possible. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Childcare Bill [HL]
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 10. While I understand the noble Baronesses, Lady Pinnock and Lady Tyler, would like working parents of children between ages one and two to be entitled to additional childcare, the elected Government’s manifesto commitment is to increase the hours of free childcare to working parents of three and four-year-olds.
There is already support for childcare put in place by the last Government. We have increased the child tax credit entitlement to £2,780 per year for families with one child, £480 more per year than in 2010. We have legislated for tax-free childcare, which will save about 1.8 million working families with children under the age of 12 up to £2,000 per child a year.
The Government are also committed to increasing childcare support within universal credit by about £350 million to provide 85% of childcare costs from 2016 when a lone parent or both parents in a couple are in work. This is up from 70% in the current working tax credit system and current universal credit system.
This package of support for childcare as a whole provides help for parents with children between ages one and two and represents significant public investment. These are, however, difficult economic times, and the Government have to make hard choices. We know that more parents use childcare as children move towards school age. We are, therefore, focusing on where there is the greatest demand for childcare. Alongside this, two year-olds in low-income families also receive 15 hours a week, offering both high-quality early education and the opportunity for their parents to move into work.
I hope, for these reasons, that the noble Baroness is persuaded to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Pinnock
The response from the Minister is predictable because of the cost to the public purse of providing free childcare in this gap year. I refer, however, to the comment I made earlier about the motif on the door of the Minister’s office, which says, “closing the gaps”. Here is a big gap that I would like closed. If we can edge towards this by saying, “What we would really like to achieve for early years care and education is a planned approach which includes provision from age one to four,” I would welcome that. At the moment, we have a more or less ad hoc approach to extensions; first it was to everyone—the universal offer—now to only those with working parents, and to some two year-olds from disadvantaged families. It seems that we ought to be able to extend this to one and two year-olds, especially to those from disadvantaged families who would qualify at age two. As I and many of the Members of this House have said, if we can help the most vulnerable children in the most disadvantaged homes, it helps not only those children but also the rest of society as they grow into adulthood.
I hope that, at some point, perhaps on Report, there could be an approach to help bridge that gap. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (CB)
My Lords, I promise to be very brief and offer one comment and one suggestion. The comment is that there is a huge range of possible needs under SEN and we need to unpick them at some point. This is not the time to do that, but it leads to my second point. Many of the issues covered by these amendments are of a practical nature and I wonder how far study of them could be incorporated into the pilots that are proposed to be set up.
Lord Nash
My Lords, this group includes Amendments 12 and 16. I remember well the excellent debates we had during the passage of the Children and Families Bill, and it will be no surprise that I sympathise with the intentions of the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones, Lady Tyler and Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, in their desire to ensure that the new entitlement is implemented in a way that meets the needs of children with SEN and disabilities.
We know that families with disabled children too often experience challenges and financial pressures in getting the service they need. That is why we have already acted—or will be taking steps—to address the issues highlighted by the proposed amendments. There is a strong legal framework in place to support children with SEN and disabilities. The Equality Act requires local authorities and other public bodies to promote equality of opportunity for disabled people. Early years settings, schools and colleges must make reasonable adjustments for disabled children, including the provision of auxiliary aids and services, to ensure that they are not at a disadvantage compared with their peers.
The Children and Families Act introduced significant reforms to the way children with special educational needs and disabilities are identified and supported. The improvements they will bring will be for all children, including those who receive childcare. Local councils will now commission support across education, health and care jointly with their health partners, publish a clear, local offer of services for children with SEN and disabilities and provide comprehensive information and advice to parents on these matters. New 0 to 25 education, health and care plans for those with more complex needs will replace the current SEN statements.
We want every family to have access to flexible and affordable high-quality childcare. We are monitoring take-up of the entitlement for two year-olds closely. In 2015, there were 2,450 two year-olds with some form of SEN or disability who took up a place within the current entitlement, compared to 1,300 in 2014. We can be confident that this is high-quality provision since the majority of children—85%—are attending settings that are currently rated good or outstanding by Ofsted. As the entitlement for three and four year-olds is universal, we do not currently collect information on why children take up a place. However, we know that 94% of three year-olds and 99% of four year-olds in England are taking up funded early education.
We are funding a number of projects to increase the number of good-quality and flexible childcare and early education places for disabled children: for example, 4Children’s project to build on the success of childcare hubs and Family Action’s work to support more school-based childcare for children under five with SEN and disabilities. We are also building on the Family and Childcare Trust’s parent champions and outreach work to increase the number of flexible early education and childcare places for disadvantaged families.
The Government are committed to building a highly skilled workforce for all children. All early years childcare providers must have in place arrangements to support children with SEND under the accountability framework that they are assessed against. The current early years teacher standards require that all new early years teachers have a clear understanding of the needs of children with SEND and are able to use and evaluate distinctive approaches to engage and support them. Similar arrangements apply for schoolteachers.
To ensure that providers and local authorities are equipped to deliver the expectations of the new code of practice, we are funding a number of projects to better equip the early years workforce to support children with SEND responsibilities. These include: funding the National Day Nurseries Association to build on local systems for self-improvement through SEND champions; the Pen Green Centre, which supports a model of peer-to-peer training; and the Pre-School Learning Alliance, to build mentored workforce development networks. More broadly, the SEND gateway, established by the National Association for Special Educational Needs, provides information and training resources for education professionals across early years, schools and further education. Through our voluntary and community sector grants programme, we are also funding the NASEN to develop online learning to help practitioners effectively to identify and meet the needs of children with SEN.
To make sure that we fully understand the issues that families face, we will engage with parents and providers to find out more about how they currently access and deliver childcare. We want to hear their views on how the extended entitlement could best meet their needs. I am pleased to say that we have already received a number of responses from groups representing and supporting disabled children and their parents, offering to host consultation events for parents and providers. We will continue to work with providers to identify what more can be done to ensure that early years settings are building inclusive and accessible services for parents with disabled children. I shall take back the idea put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, of making sure that providers for disabled children and the needs of disabled children are factored into the pilots.
As the Committee has heard, funding and affordability is a significant issue for many parents of SEND children. Local authorities must have the flexibility to provide support according to the circumstances in their area. They are able to set higher funding rates for provision that involves additional costs, including costs for children with SEN or disabilities, and can use their high-needs budgets to fund provision for children with additional needs, including those in specialist settings. Some in the sector have expressed concerns over the higher costs of supporting children with SEN and disabilities. The funding review will, of course, consider the additional costs, funding and support required for children with SEN and disabilities. We would welcome any evidence that the Special Educational Consortium can submit to the review on this issue and we will be happy to work with it—indeed, my officials have already met its representatives.
I am in agreement with the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones, Lady Tyler and Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, about the need for concentrated action to ensure that the Government implement the new entitlement effectively for children with SEN and disabilities. As I have described, much of this is either in hand or about to take place. However, in view of the importance of ensuring that there is equal access to the new entitlement, I would welcome a conversation with noble Lords outside this debate.
I hope that I have reassured noble Lords, and therefore urge the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for suggesting that we can have a further conversation about this, and that may be the way forward, because I think that there are some issues that still need to be explored. I think that there is a problem with saying that we already have a legal framework in place, and that therefore there is no problem, per se. It is one thing to say that you have a legal framework and another to look at the practicality of what is happening on the ground. We have to marry those up in some way—so, if we have a legal framework but parents of disabled children are not accessing it, we have a problem, and we really need to get to the heart of why that is the case.
I am pleased to hear that the funding review will consider the issue. As I said in opening the debate, the call for evidence does not explicitly say that we want to hear from parents of disabled children. I think the noble Lord is saying that that will be done as a separate exercise or a parallel exercise. If that is the case, I am very pleased to hear that. Rather than just assume that parents of disabled children were responding to a general call for evidence, we need to go and seek them out in a more targeted way.
Lord Nash
My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 14, 30 and 32 regarding the review of the cost of childcare, the funding rate to deliver early education places and the impact of the additional entitlement on providers.
I appreciate the concerns that the noble Baronesses and the noble Lord are trying to address through Amendments 14 and 30. I agree with them that a review of the cost of providing childcare is needed and that providers should receive a fair funding rate to deliver early education places. This is particularly important as we move forward to extend the free entitlement to 30 hours for working parents of three and four year-olds. In order to do this, as we discussed, we are conducting a thorough review. The review will report in the autumn and will inform our decisions on the level of funding that providers require to deliver quality childcare, and as I said, we will report on these findings by Report.
The Government have committed to a funding rate that is fair and sustainable for providers and meets the needs of a diverse market—we were the only party that committed to increase the rate. The findings from the review will inform what that rate should be. This is a complex issue which will be looked at both by experts across government and by an external team of experts. Their role will be to support the review process and validate their findings. A call for evidence is already under way, and as I have said, we have already received more than 500 responses. With regard to how we will pay for that, it will be funded by restricting tax relief on the pensions of higher earners.
The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, talked about the scale of the increase facing us. We have introduced an offer relating to two year-olds and raised the offers for three and four year-olds from 12 to 15 hours, and the sector has coped well with that. However, the increase is nothing like the 50% that she spoke about. Many children will be in reception classes in primary schools at the age of four and many will already be taking up the offer—parents will be paying for it themselves—so the challenge is not as great as it might appear at first blush. As I say, we are confident that the sector will be able to respond. I hope that the noble Baronesses and the noble Lord will agree that the Government’s firm commitment in respect of the review and funding for early education addresses their concerns. I therefore urge them not to press the amendments.
Amendment 32 is in the name of the noble Lord, Lord True. I understand the noble Lord’s concern that the additional provision may have a negative impact on some providers, many of whom will provide a valuable service to their local community. As I mentioned earlier, I am happy to confirm that we do not envisage that any provider will be forced to provide places. While the number of providers offering places under the existing entitlement continues to grow, it is true that some choose not to do so. Parents may choose, as some do already, to receive their free entitlement from more than one provider. The existing entitlement of 15 hours per week for disadvantaged two year-olds and for all three and four year-olds will of course remain. We will keep all aspects of the delivery of the new entitlement and all the different types of providers under observation and careful consideration but it seems to us that a report such as that suggested by the amendment would be wholly disproportionate. It would be very intrusive into the private business affairs of providers. I hope that this gives the noble Lord the reassurance that he seeks and I therefore urge him not to press the amendment.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
I thank the Minister for that response. The difficulty is, I think, that there is a great deal seemingly riding on the funding review and we are all trying to piece together what will be in it. Originally we were referred to the call for evidence, which we have of course looked at, but it does not give a great deal away and, as I said earlier, the evidence that it is calling for is very generalised. There are some quite specific issues that we want the funding review to look at, such as capital funding, the historic disparities between local authorities and where the money will come from—I note that the Minister said that it would be paid for by the tax relief but, if it turns out that it costs more than the original assumption, where will that extra cash come from? I give those issues as examples.
This is the last opportunity that we will have to talk about the funding review before we see the findings—according to the timetable now, we will see the findings on Report—and our last chance to influence what is in the funding review. Given that, it would have been, and still would be, helpful to see the terms of reference so that we know exactly what is in them, what is being looked at and what is excluded
I was very taken with the examples given by the noble Lord, Lord True. You cannot assume that some of these providers will find their way to us if we do not ask them to give us the evidence to help get a full picture. I am pleased to hear that there are experts in and outside of government, but I would love to know exactly what they will be doing. I do not want everything dotted and crossed, but a bit more of the flavour of what exactly is going on with the funding review would be really helpful while we still have a chance to encourage people to participate in it and before we finally get a chance to debate the outcome in October. We have moved a little way forward but I think that we still have a way to go on some of these issues. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment 14 withdrawn.
Amendments 15 to 17 not moved.
Amendment 18
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, this is one of the many clauses about which the Delegated Powers Committee was scathing. Regarding the proposal for the establishment of a body corporate, it said in its report that the government memorandum,
“explains little about why a new body might be thought necessary or about the nature of its proposed functions”.
I am rather glad that it said that because our inquiries at Second Reading received a similarly blank response.
Since then, there have been some developments. I am very conscious that the Minister said before we started this debate that the Government had had some second thoughts on the amendment. I could spell out in more detail why we thought that the measure was not a sensible idea but I am sure that the noble Lord has something useful to say about it. Therefore, rather than pre-empt that, I should be interested to hear what he has to say.
Childcare
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years ago)
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Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure the effective monitoring of childcare places by local authorities.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, the department’s statutory guidance is clear that local authorities should report annually to elected council members on how they are meeting this duty and make the report available and accessible to parents. We know that the childcare market is thriving. The latest figures just published show that 99% of four year-olds and 94% of three year-olds are accessing the Government’s free childcare offer.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. He will have seen the recent Family and Childcare Trust report entitled Access Denied. It highlights a huge disparity in childcare places across England. For example, 49 local authorities have a shortage of free places for two year-olds in deprived areas, and while some local authorities are proactively managing the shortfall, others are not even bothering to collect the statistics, so the offer and the quality vary considerably from place to place. How can we be sure that future expenditure will be targeted at the families who would benefit the most from this money when we seem to be faced with a lack of nursery places in the most deprived areas?
Lord Nash
The noble Baroness is quite right to say that the recent report is concerning—and we are concerned. Local authorities of course must publish certain information, but only to a limited extent, so the new Bill will go further to ensure that we have better information. I can assure her that we are very focused on deprived areas, and indeed there has been a substantial increase in full daycare places in those areas over the past five years.
Lord Laming (CB)
My Lords, following on from the question of the noble Baroness, does the Minister agree that this requires much more than putting a roof over the head of any child who has had a terrible start in life? It requires a robust and effective care plan to be devised for each child in order to help them overcome their difficulties. We have only a very few years in which to get that into operation.
Lord Nash
I agree entirely with the noble Lord, who is very experienced in this area. We all know that these are the most important years in a child’s life, but I am encouraged that of the providers who have been inspected under the early years inspection framework, which is a more rigorous one, we now have some 85% of them being found to be good or outstanding, up from 69% five years ago.
Baroness Pinnock (LD)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the problems of undercapacity in the childcare sector will not be resolved unless hourly rates for the free places are substantially increased? The hourly rate is dependent on the vagaries of the early years funding element in the revenue support grant to local authorities. We need to address both concerns if the rates for free places are going to be increased, as well as problems around capacity in the childcare sector if the increase to 15 hours a week is to be provided.
Baroness Massey of Darwen (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the Select Committee report on affordable childcare. The report indicates that many parents find the provision of the current childcare system difficult and complex. What would the Minister advise a parent to do when they are seeking high-quality childcare for their child?
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (CB)
My Lords, the Bill before the House could well expand educational expenditure in this area to over £6 billion annually. What steps are the Government taking to be sure that this money is well spent, and that it benefits those most in need in terms of increasing their educational opportunities?
Lord Nash
We will be looking at this closely in the coming review. We have of course been extremely focused on providing for those most in need through the early years pupil premium, the pupil premium, universal free school meals, free childcare for 15 hours for two year-olds, and of course expanding the three and four year-old offer from 12 hours to 15 hours.
Baroness Andrews (Lab)
My Lords, has the Minister seen the devastating report that came out earlier this week from the Delegated Powers Select Committee? If he has, what is his response to its conclusions that the absence of any detail in the Bill and the inappropriate delegations of considerable significant powers make it practically impossible for this House to have a meaningful debate on it? Does he not think that he owes it to the House to enable us to do our job in terms of the proper scrutiny of a very important Bill that we would all like to support?
Lord Nash
The noble Baroness is quite right; I have seen that report, and I am very grateful for it. We will have the opportunity to debate it in great detail tomorrow in Committee, when I will be saying more about that. We will be considering the report extremely carefully and making any necessary appropriate amendments.
The Earl of Listowel (CB)
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the decline in numbers of the highly regarded nursery schools attached to primary schools? Is he looking at how those numbers can be increased in order to develop capacity in high-quality early years provision?
Lord Nash
I am not entirely sure that the noble Earl is right about declining numbers; I will clarify that for him. I think that provision has in fact been increasing, and we have been making every effort to expand that high-quality provision. We know that it is of the highest quality and tends to have higher-quality staff. We have reduced the bureaucracy to enable primary schools to open nurseries, and we have now allowed free school applicants to apply to open nurseries attached to their primary places. We have been working with a number of schools that are already doing this to learn from the practice so that we can share that practice with other primary schools that want to open nursery provision.
Childcare Bill [HL]
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, I am delighted to be opening the Second Reading debate of the Childcare Bill. I welcome the support for the aims of this legislation and the level of interest and engagement from noble Lords. There is tremendous expertise and experience in this House on these matters. Last night, my honourable friend the Minister for Childcare and I were pleased to have the opportunity to discuss these issues with members of the Select Committee on Affordable Childcare, which has done such important work in this area. I pay tribute to that work and the leadership of the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, in particular.
The Government’s long-term economic plan is focused on ensuring that working people have a chance to get on, offering them security and opportunity at every stage of their lives. We know that, for many families with young children, childcare is not an issue—it is the issue. Many parents want to go back to work or work more hours, but find the costs of childcare unaffordable. The Government want to reward hard-working families by reducing their childcare bill.
As the Family and Childcare Trust has said:
“The Childcare Bill is great news for working parents and the doubling of the hours of free childcare will make a really big difference to many families. We look forward to working with the Government on the development of the detail around the Bill”.
It is also pleasing to see the support for the Bill from parents. The National Day Nurseries Association’s chief executive, Purnima Tanuku, said that a poll of parents carried out by Netmums shows that the Government’s offer of more childcare is,
“wanted and needed and already eagerly anticipated”.
She said:
“The survey also suggests that reform will encourage more parents to work more hours, bringing the economic boost the Government wants. There could also be a knock-on effect that grandparents, freed up from childcare, may also look for more work”.
Access to childcare is not a luxury but is essential for families in Britain and it is a crucial investment in this country’s economic future. As Vicky Redwood, an economist at Capital Economics, said recently, the plan to double free childcare for three and four year-olds of working parents should help boost employment rates by enabling more parents, especially women, to return to work. She said:
“Fifteen hours is probably not really enough for someone to do even a decent part-time job, whereas 30 hours is, so it could have a disproportionate effect in supporting women who want to go back to work”.
Many in this House worked on the Childcare Act 2006. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, and others in this place. It was game-changing in its time and the world has continued to change for parents and children. The employment rate has increased consistently for women with children aged under five. The recent Labour Force Survey shows that the long-term employment rate for this group has risen over the last two decades from 49% in 1996 to 61% in 2014.
Our business and our economy depend on working parents and those parents depend on access to safe, high-quality childcare. The Childcare and Early Years Survey of Parents tells us that 22% of working couples found it difficult or very difficult to pay for childcare; for lone working parents that rises even higher to 38%. The Government have responded to these challenges. We have made childcare more flexible and affordable so that pressure is taken off household budgets, helping families to be financially secure and able to plan for the future.
In the previous Parliament we increased the free entitlement for three and four year-olds from 12.5 hours a week to 15 hours a week. Take-up of this offer is consistently more than 95%. We introduced a new free entitlement for the 40% most disadvantaged two year-olds and we legislated for tax-free childcare, which will save up to 1.8 million families up to £2,000 per child on their annual childcare bill. We are also introducing universal credit, which includes an element to support parents with their childcare costs, even if they work only a few hours a week. On top of this, we introduced a new entitlement for mothers and fathers to share parental leave.
The Government already invest around £5 billion per annum to support parents with childcare. With this new entitlement working families will receive more childcare support than ever before, creating a saving for families of more than £2,500 a year per child and making more high-quality provision available for parents. The Bill takes that support even further. The Government are delivering their commitment to supporting people at every stage of their lives and reducing the cost of childcare by providing an extra 15 hours of free childcare for hard-working families. I wish to reassure noble Lords that the new entitlement will not impact on parents’ ability to access the current 570 hours of free early education per year for all three and four year-olds. The Bill will guarantee working parents a total of 1,140 hours of free childcare per year.
The Bill places a duty on the Secretary of State to secure that childcare is available free of charge for qualifying children of working parents for, or for a period equivalent to, 30 hours in each of 38 weeks in any year. Parents will have the chance, and most importantly the choice, to work before they have to pay for childcare. I am sure noble Lords will be pleased to hear that I can confirm that the definition of “working” has been determined to include: working parents with children aged three and four; where parents are working part time or full time, the only requirement is that each parent is working the equivalent of eight hours per week, which is the same threshold as the tax-free childcare scheme; the entitlement can be accessed by parents who are employed or self-employed; and lone parents who are working to support their families.
The Government have also made clear their intention to roll out the entitlement in certain areas from September 2016 in advance of full implementation from 2017. The regulation-making powers in the Bill enable the Secretary of State to have sufficient flexibility to do so. Noble Lords have my reassurance that it is, of course, of paramount importance to the Government, as it is for parents, that the additional hours are delivered in safe and secure settings. We have improved early years qualifications and encouraged high-quality entrants to the profession, and it is encouraging to see that in the recent DfE Childcare and Early Years Providers Survey, between 2008 and 2013 the proportion of full daycare staff with at least a level 3 qualification grew from 75% to 87%. By improving the quality of those entering the workforce, parents can have confidence in the people supporting the learning of our youngest children.
The quality and affordability of childcare has been of great interest to this House, notably the work of the Select Committee on Affordable Childcare, and I was delighted to discuss this with members of that committee last night and the Minister for Childcare, Sam Gyimah. In addition to increasing the available hours of free childcare, we recognise that it is crucial that parents are able to easily access information about childcare and other services in their area. We want to ensure that parents are able to access such information through a range of sources and this is why, through the Bill, we will require local authorities to publish information which will support parents to make informed choices about childcare. Let me reassure noble Lords that the childcare sector is healthy, vibrant and growing. Eighty-three per cent of providers are rated good or outstanding by Ofsted, up from 69% in 2009. There are around 230,000 more childcare places than in 2009—a 12% increase—and there has been a significant increase in the take-up of childcare provision in low and middle-income areas. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, has previously quoted a figure of 40,000 fewer childcare places between 2009 and 2014. I would like to clarify that this figure excludes the growth of childcare provision in the maintained schools sector, which has contributed greatly to ensuring that parents have access to flexible, affordable and high-quality childcare.
Over the last five years we have worked closely with the profession to help raise its status, and as a result the number of staff has increased, they are better paid, and more providers are rated good or outstanding. However, we are not complacent. That is why we are committed to working to raise the status of the profession further and increase the average funding rate that providers receive—a move that has been welcomed by the providers. Noble Lords will understand that it is important that the hourly rate for the childcare entitlement strikes the right balance between being fair for providers as well as delivering value for money to the taxpayer. We are addressing the concern that has been highlighted by the sector and have already committed to increasing the average funding rates. To get this right, my honourable friend the Minister for Childcare is leading a review of the cost of providing childcare. I am delighted to confirm that, as he set out in the other place yesterday, this is already under way. It is extremely important that we get this review right and so we will appoint external experts to contribute to and validate the review. So that the views of providers and parents are reflected, we have issued a call for evidence which can be accessed via Directgov. The review will report in the autumn.
The system needs to work for parents. It is of the utmost importance that we take the time to listen to the views of parents and providers, and we will be consulting them about the features of a system which best meets their needs. The additional entitlement will be delivered in a way that is flexible, affordable and high quality for parents, and the Bill enables the Government to set out further details in secondary legislation once we have listened to parents and providers. I intend to share more details of that consultation with your Lordships in Committee.
I hope that the principles behind the Bill are ones that everyone in the House will support. The measures in the Bill will have a direct and significant impact on the lives of children and families across the country so it is right that it is subjected to the most thorough scrutiny and debate. I look forward to listening to the debate and I look forward to working with your Lordships on the Bill.
Lord Richard (Lab)
My Lords, before the noble Lord sits down, perhaps he can help me with a point that is slightly worrying me. According to Clause 1(2):
“‘Qualifying child of working parents’ means a young child who … is in England”.
According to Clause 4:
“This Act extends to England and Wales only”.
Does it extend to Wales? Is it the Government’s intention that the Act shall apply in Wales? I had thought it was a devolved matter.
Lord Nash
My Lords, the debate today has been constructive, heartfelt and highly useful. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part. The contributions made highlight the extensive knowledge and experience of childcare policy across the House and, as the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, said, I am very lucky to have received so many helpful comments. I am delighted that so many noble Lords across the House have offered their support for the aims of the Bill and the Government’s commitment to doubling the entitlement to free childcare for working parents of three and four year-olds. I hope that noble Lords will forgive me if I am not able this evening to respond to all the points made in detail, but I will do my best. I also commit to writing before Committee to all those who have spoken today and I expect to be able to provide further detail on some important issues at that time.
As we have heard today, the first few years of a child’s life are critical to shaping their future development. That is why the current entitlement ensures that all three and four year-old children can access 15 hours a week of quality early education to prepare them for school, improving their life chances. It is the Government’s intention that extension of the free entitlement will enable families to make choices about what is best for their circumstances. Doubling the amount of free childcare available for working families will give parents the chance to go back to work or take on additional hours at work—increasing their income but crucially not seeing their childcare bill rise as a result.
My noble friend Lady Eaton and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, raised the importance of the developmental needs of children and the importance of high-quality early years care. The Effective Pre-School, Primary and Secondary Education project provided highly influential evidence on the benefits of high-quality early years education and explored pre-school as a predictor of outcomes over time for children aged three and four. The project showed, as the noble Earl, Lord Listowel said, that attending pre-school had a positive and long-term impact on children’s attainment, progress and social-behavioural development.
Many noble Lords mentioned quality, which is of course vital. This Government remain committed to driving up quality in the early years. A qualified, high-quality workforce is essential and the Government have helped nurseries to recruit the staff they need through generous funding for early years teacher training. I am pleased that the quality of providers continues to improve. More than 83% of providers are now judged good or outstanding compared with 69% in 2009.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, about how the implementation of the Nutbrown review is going. The noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, my noble friend Lady Stedman-Scott and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, asked about the early years workforce. The workforce is better qualified and better paid than in 2009. We have established more robust qualifications at level 3 and level 6, raising the status of the profession and the quality of provision. We have supported that with bursaries for level 6 early years teachers and support the sharing of expertise and skills across the sector—for example, using teaching skills networks to get private and school nurseries working together.
The noble Earl mentioned Dr Lesley Curtis. She is helping us through teaching school alliances to support quality improvement in private, voluntary and school nurseries. Her nursery school is one of the leading lights in this innovative new approach to schools and nurseries working together. Sir Michael Wilshaw yesterday launched a new common inspection framework, which places a very strong focus on the quality of teaching and learning and improved outcomes for children in all registered early years settings.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Tyler, talked about the importance of childcare for disadvantaged children. We agree and that is why in the previous Parliament we introduced the two-year-old offer and the early years pupil premium, and why the entitlement to 15 hours of free early education is universal for all three and four year-olds. It is important to consider that disadvantage is not a simple divide of working and not working. Indeed, we know that around half of the families who are entitled to a place for their two year-old are working. These families are working hard to support their children and in future will be able to plan ahead to their children turning three knowing that they will be able to receive 30 hours of free childcare a week, reducing their childcare costs and giving them a real choice about returning to work or taking up more hours. We must do all we can to support families out of poverty, as the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, said, and I am delighted that the Child Poverty Action Group has welcomed the extension of the free entitlement, describing it as an “extremely positive move”.
I also take this opportunity to reassure noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Tyler, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and others, who asked about disabled children accessing this new extended entitlement. I wish to be very clear that parents with disabled children must have the same opportunities as other parents to access the entitlement. Where parents of disabled children would like to go out to work we want to make it easier for them to do so. We are committed to helping families with disabled children and since the passage of the Children and Families Act we have introduced new EHC plans, provided £30 million for families to access independent supporters and given more rights to parent-carers of disabled children so that they have same assessment rights as other carers. I am sure that the funding review will consider significant evidence on the funding issues for disabled children that noble Lords have raised.
The noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, asked about the Government’s position on using private funds to supplement publicly funded early education places. I am happy to meet her to discuss this further. Local authorities have a statutory duty to secure early education places free of charge for two year-olds from low-income families, looked-after two year-olds and all three and four year-olds in their area. It is an important principle of the early education entitlement that access to a government-funded early education place is not conditional on the payment of any fee or the purchase of additional hours or services. This would be a significant financial barrier for many families and we do not want any child to be prevented from accessing the benefits of early education.
The noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, asked about providers working with children with additional needs. Local authorities have the flexibility to pay a higher rate to providers working with children with additional needs, in respect of the additional costs of meeting those needs, in order to ensure that all eligible children can take up their fully funded early education place. The Government are reviewing the cost of providing childcare and have committed to increasing the average funding rate. We want this new entitlement to be available to all eligible parents who want to take it up. As I have said, the review will take a broad look at the costs of providing childcare for all children and will therefore include children with additional needs.
I am pleased that noble Lords have welcomed the clarification that “working” will be defined as the equivalent of eight hours per week, will include self-employed work, and that lone parents will be able to access the entitlement. Further, more detailed criteria will be subject to consultation in due course, but so far as the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, is concerned, it is not intended to apply to grandparents. However, I must take issue with her on her numbers in respect of the closure of children’s centres. The important point is that we have a record number of parents and children using children’s centres—more than 1 million.
I will deal now with a couple of technical points. The question was raised that the Bill extends to England and Wales but a “qualifying child” of a working parent is a child in England. The Bill, when passed, will form part of the law of England and Wales as a single legal jurisdiction, but Clauses 1 and 2 apply only to children in England, and Clause 3 applies only to English local authorities. This is normal in legislation relating to childcare, since it is a devolved matter and dealt with by the Welsh Government.
My noble friend Lord True, who I know is very well briefed both as the leader of Richmond Council and by his wife—who I understand was Montessorian of the Year in 2011—raised a point about criminal offences. I can assure him that this is intended for serious cases relating particularly to the protection of people’s confidential data, as is the case now for the current provision, and for cases of fraud.
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and my noble friends Lord True and Lord Browne raised questions about stay-at-home parents. There is no intention to undermine the vital importance of stay-at-home parents. The formation of attachments at an early age is crucial, and we are supporting stay-at-home parents with the marriage tax allowance and through changes to the pension scheme. My noble friend Lord True also asked whether I would meet the Montessori Schools Association and other providers. I will be delighted to do so, and will discuss this with him. The noble Lord, Lord Sawyer, raised a point about pay rates for early years. We hope that the funding review will raise the average hourly rate.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Jones, Lady Pinnock and Lady Andrews, and other noble Lords raised questions about the overall funding for the scheme. It is imperative that we carefully cost this policy and ensure that we find the right balance between being fair to providers and delivering value for money to the taxpayer. In doing so, there are a number of factors to consider: how many three and four year-olds there will be in the future, obviously; what proportion have working parents; how many four year-olds will have a reception place; how many parents will take up the offer; how many of the 15 hours they will take up; the savings that will result from working tax credits and other subsidies to parents; and, of course, the average funding rate to providers. On the last point, the funding rate is of course central to the debate, and we have taken note of the sector’s concerns. That is why we were the only party to commit to a review of the cost of providing childcare and the only party to commit to increasing funding. As I clarified to the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, on 3 June,
“our current estimate is that this will cost around £350 million, to be delivered from reducing the tax relief on pensions for those earning more than £150,000 a year”.—[Official Report, 3/6/15; col. 412.]
We want to make sure that funding for providers is sufficient, which is why we committed to the increase in the funding rate.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, my noble friend Lord True and others asked about the capacity of the system to deliver this increase. We know that working parents with children use many different forms of childcare, depending on their income, working pattern and the age of their children. It is important now that the market can be flexible in how it responds to the choices that parents wish to make. The market is healthy and growing, delivering childcare through a broad range of providers.
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, our latest figures show that we now have 230,000 more childcare places than in 2009. The UK childcare market was worth £5 billion in 2013-14, and a recent report suggested that demand further increased by over 50% in the current year. So this is a vibrant sector with a demonstrable ability to respond to previous changes to entitlement, as it has to the two year-old offer and the expansion of the three and four year-old offer. But, of course, expansion must be delivered in a way that is flexible and affordable for parents and provides quality. We have committed to consulting parents and childcare providers on how this will be implemented.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked about primary settings for nurseries, and the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, pointed out that they tend to be of very high quality. Under the free school programme, we now allow applications for primary schools to include applications for nurseries. Although it is true that many primaries may be full, many have capacity; it varies substantially by geographic location. I take the points made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham, my noble friend Lord True and others about the specific capacity of certain providers.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Pinnock, Lady Andrews and Lady Bakewell, and the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, raised important points about the actual costs of nurseries and the question of cross-subsidy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, about flexibility. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, a review of the cost of providing childcare is already under way. The reviewers want to see as much evidence as possible, and I encourage interested organisations to respond to the call for evidence. This is available on Directgov, and I will write to Peers with the details of how to find it.
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham, the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, raised the question of stretching provision over a longer period than 38 weeks. The Bill will allow this, as is already allowed for the 570 hours offered at the moment. Regarding the current 570 hours—15 hours a week—we say in guidance that parents and providers need to be aware that there is no requirement for all early years education to be delivered over 38 weeks. Local authorities should enable parents to take the current entitlement in a pattern of hours that stretches the entitlement by taking fewer hours over more weeks where there is sufficient parental demand and provider capacity. Delivering flexibility for parents is an important principle for government in this Bill and will be important in consultation and in the funding review.
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham raised a point about providers insisting that parents have to purchase hours during holidays as a condition of getting the free entitlement. We are clear in our current statutory guidance, and therefore in the contracts between local authorities and providers, that the 15 hours of early years education should be free of charge to parents. We do not want to see conditions or extra costs attached. The Childcare Bill gives us full powers to impose similar requirements, and we will be examining this carefully in consultation.
My noble friend Lady Eaton asked how the provision will be delivered. Obviously these matters will be considered in consultation in the funding review. Specifically, as my noble friend rightly says, local authorities play a very important role. We fully intend and need them to continue to do so. They have delivered a 95% take-up of the current free entitlement, and I look forward to further discussions on the importance of their role.
The noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, my noble friend Lord True and others talked about the pace of legislation. The introduction of the Bill, with a strong duty on the Secretary of State, sends a clear message to parents and providers about the Government’s commitment. They are expecting us to deliver on our manifesto commitment. They will be able to plan in the knowledge that they can expect this further support for working families, and the market can continue to grow in anticipation. Although the detail that will go into regulations is important, so are the primary powers that we are taking. We will listen very carefully to the issues that the House has raised tonight and will raise in Committee, and I will write with further details to support scrutiny in Committee.
By considering and challenging us on the legal framework at this stage, the House will contribute significantly to the shaping of this policy, but it is equally important to take time to consult providers, parents and local authorities before operational details are fixed. We do not intend to proceed at the pace of a “breathless shriek”, as the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, said, although I have to admit that that sounds to me rather like a contradiction in terms, even for a philosopher.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Pinnock and Lady Massey, along with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and others, talked about the thrust of the Bill and the needs of the child. I assure noble Lords that quality will be central to our provision, and in all things my department seeks to put the child first.
The message is clear: this Government are on the side of working people, helping them to get on and supporting them at every stage of their lives. That is why we are pressing ahead with these reforms, so that not a moment is lost in getting on with the task—going further than ever before to help with childcare costs, helping hard-working families and giving people the choice to get into work or more hours, as my noble friend Lord Suri has said. Having the right childcare in place means that more parents can have genuine choice, security and peace of mind when it comes to being able to support their family. As I have said, noble Lords will understand that it is not yet the time to draft regulations. We are committed to substantial consultation with parents, providers and local authorities first. We must take advantage of that, as we must of your Lordships’ expertise.
I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken today for their wisdom. As I have said, I will write to them before Committee, and I will set out further details of our plans for consultation and a policy statement of the principles that will inform delivery of the extended offer. I look forward to further meetings with noble Lords—with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, with members of the Select Committee and others. I am confident that that will support your Lordships in homing in on the issues, enabling us to benefit from noble Lords’ customary high-quality scrutiny. I look forward to discussing this in more detail in Committee, and I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.
Schools: Health and Well-being
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years ago)
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Baroness Benjamin (LD)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and I declare an interest as the chair of the All-Party Group on a Fit and Healthy Childhood.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, the Government already support a whole-school approach to nutrition and the health and well-being of children. Following the publication of the School Food Plan, we have brought in new school-food standards. Cooking is in the national curriculum for the first time and we have brought in universal free school meals for infants. Together with the other actions from the plan, including guidance for head teachers on a whole-school approach, we are helping to transform nutrition and food culture in our schools.
Baroness Benjamin
My Lords, to help tackle the UK’s child obesity epidemic, we must have a national nutrition strategy, starting with school meals and the teaching of nutrition in all schools. This is the finding in the latest report of the All-Party Group on a Fit and Healthy Childhood, which is published today. To give children that long-term vitality, will the Government adopt a universal free-school-meals policy to ensure that the quality of food consumed tackles obesity and the rising cost to the NHS? Will they also consider a radical new approach to the teaching of nutrition in schools to empower children to learn about a healthy diet? Finally, will the Minister meet me to discuss further findings in the report, which is entitled Food in School and the Teaching of Food?
Lord Nash
My Lords, I welcome today’s report by the All-Party Group on a Fit and Healthy Childhood. I commend the noble Baroness’s work in championing these issues and would be delighted to meet her on this.
Following the successful introduction of universal free school meals for infants last September, all school children have the opportunity to eat a healthy, nutritious lunch. This Government’s manifesto supported the continuation of this policy. However, we are in a tight fiscal position and have no plans to extend it. Throughout primary schooling and until the end of key stage 3, food and nutrition education is already a curriculum requirement and, as part of Ofsted’s new common assessment framework, inspectors will consider how schools and school leaders are promoting healthy eating across the school. The Government’s manifesto committed to taking action on child obesity, and I know that this is a key focus for both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Health. The Government will put forward their plans to address the challenge of obesity in due course, and plan to publish a national obesity framework before the end of the year.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)
My Lords, cigarettes damage health, so we introduced taxes to put the price up and save lives. Why can we not target certain types of food and drink in exactly the same way?
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
What are the Government doing about vitamin deficiency among children, given that the CMO’s report recommended the Healthy Start vitamin programme and that 40% of young children are thought to be vitamin D deficient, particularly as the deficiency may be linked to the metabolic syndrome and high blood pressure? It has even been suggested that a vitamin D supplement may improve some of the core symptoms of autism, which can create major behavioural issues in a classroom.
Baroness Hollins (CB)
Does the Minister agree that it is time for a ban on the marketing of unhealthy food and drink to children and young people?
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that most Members of this House and many other people would accept that providing healthy food in schools, particularly to very young children, is an entirely laudable aim. What information does the Minister have about schools that are struggling to deliver this, both practically and financially, and what help is being offered to those that are having those problems?
Lord Nash
We have provided £185 million for cooking facilities for schools and we are training cooks in this area. More schoolchildren have this opportunity. It is reaching 85% of schoolchildren. Not all take it up—not all have been in school on the day in question—but it is receiving comprehensive coverage.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, much of the focus has been on mainstream schools and children’s nutrition. The pupils at Critchill special school in Frome grow their own vegetables, have chickens and manage their own eggs. On the day I visited they were making a tasty soup from their own vegetables and using maths, English and other skills. Is this excellent example of whole-school nutrition in special schools being disseminated elsewhere in the country?
Lord Nash
The noble Baroness raises an excellent point, particularly in relation to schools for special educational needs. I know that caring for animals and growing plants can be very helpful. The School Food Plan refers to all schools being encouraged to have plant-growing programmes. I can assure her that across the country there are many other examples of what she has talked about.
Lord Touhig (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will have heard the wake-up call from the head of NHS England, Simon Stevens, last week when he told us that one in 10 children are obese when they begin primary school, and that that rises to one in five when they leave. Currently we spend more on obesity-related healthcare than we do on the police, the Prison Service, the fire service and the criminal justice system. Does he agree that child obesity cannot be tackled in isolation? What do the Government propose to do across all departments so that we have a proper strategy to respond to what Mr Stevens now calls the new smoking?
Lord Nash
I agree entirely with the noble Lord about the seriousness of this issue. We are doing what we can in schools. As I said, this is a key focus for the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Health. Many of my department’s priorities are designed around the need to reduce childhood obesity. However, despite our programmes, it still seems to be an issue. We will be publishing our plan on this shortly.
Lord Elton (Con)
My Lords, when my noble friend receives the copious briefing on sugar that he would expect after this debate, could he make sure that he also pays close attention to the substitutes that may replace it when it is reduced in consumption and what the effect of those is on the health of the people who consume them?
Childcare: Early-years Funding
Lord Nash Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Pitkeathley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how their proposed plans to increase free early-years childcare will be funded.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
My Lords, our current estimate is that this will cost around £350 million, to be delivered from reducing the tax relief on pensions for those earning more than £150,000 a year. We want to make sure that funding is sufficient to providers and fair to taxpayers. That is why we have committed to increasing the average funding rate, and to get this right we will hold a funding review. Details of this will be announced before Second Reading on 16 June.
Baroness Pitkeathley
That is very good news to the House, but is the Minister familiar with the remarks made recently by the chief executive of the Pre-School Learning Alliance? He said:
“Just about everybody that you talk to who has an ounce of knowledge about delivering childcare will tell you it is underfunded”.
He went on to say that,
“the Government … has no idea how much it costs to deliver childcare”.
In the light of those comments, can the Minister assure the House that the Government do know how much it costs and that essential childcare services will be properly funded?
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)
My Lords, what measures will the Government take in delivering this, on the whole very welcome, initiative to ensure that those who are actually providing the childcare are properly paid and properly managed?
The Earl of Listowel (CB)
Does the Minister recognise that the research clearly shows that high-quality early-years education has long-term benefits in terms of educational and other outcomes for children? In his proposed changes, and particularly with the concerns about funding, will he ensure that we continue to give the highest-quality childcare to our young people?
Lord Christopher (Lab)
My Lords, will the noble Lord define “fair value to the taxpayer”? I have no idea how you measure that. It sounds to me very much like a useful escape clause.
Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)
Will the Minister give an assurance that there will be monitoring of whether children from the most disadvantaged families are able to benefit from this scheme?
Lord Grocott (Lab)
My Lords, in responding to my noble friend’s question about getting some clarity in his wording, the Minister gave another definition which was even less clear than the first. As he clearly cannot answer the question at the moment, can he help the House by giving us a written reply with a clearer definition of what is meant by “happiness”, “joy”, “fairness”, or whatever other phrase he wishes?
Lord Nash
Much as I would be delighted to enter into a lengthy correspondence with the noble Lord on those rather esoteric matters, I shall not do so. It is clear that we are at the start of a negotiation between the Government and funders and we need to make sure that the funders are able to provide a good service without making too much profit. I am sure the party opposite will be delighted to hear that.
Lord Winston (Lab)
My Lords, I do not feel that the Minister has answered that question entirely clearly. In the previous Session, the Government cut the funding for Sure Start. Sure Start was clearly shown and validated by Jay Belsky and others at University College London to have a major impact on social cohesion, to prevent certain crimes as children grew older, and to have some benefits for education as well as for cohesion in families. There are measures that can seen, and it seems a pity that that funding was cut. Can the Minister assure us that that will be relooked at so that re-funding can be considered?
Lord Teverson (LD)
My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s commitment in this area—one of the most important areas where we can progress social inclusion over many years. As I understand it, however, the Government’s proposals are for working parents, which suggests that both parents have to be working. Can the Minister assure me that the definition of “working” will not be so tight that it excludes those—for instance, many of the self-employed—who perhaps find it difficult to prove their incomes to other authorities such as mortgage providers?
Lord Nash
I can give the noble Lord the assurance that we will not be trying to exclude anyone who should qualify for this with any clever wording in the way that he might be suspicious of. We will provide more details in due course but we are aiming this particularly at parents who want to do a bit more work and find that the cost of childcare prevents that.
Lord Lexden (Con)
How many families do the Government expect will benefit from their proposals?
Lord Nash
There are up to 600,000 families that could benefit. Obviously the number that actually benefit will depend on the take-up and the precise numbers of those who are already paying for this, although they too will benefit because although there will not be an increase in provision they will have their existing provision funded.
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister please give the House an assurance that, in looking for value for money for the public purse, the Government will also have regard to those people working in the sector having not only the right opportunities for training and professional development but themselves having an income that is justifiable in terms of them being able to have a living-wage life?