Lords Chamber

Tuesday 24th March 2026

(began 1 hour, 57 minutes ago)

Share Debate
Watch Live
Skip to latest contribution
14:36
14:37
14:38
14:39
14:40
14:40
14:41
14:42
14:43
14:44
14:44
14:45
14:46
14:47
14:47
14:48
14:48
14:49
14:49
14:51
14:51
14:52
14:52
14:53
14:53
14:54
14:55
14:56
None Portrait Lord Speaker
-

Well done. Paper.
14:56
14:56
14:56
14:57
14:57
14:58
14:59
15:00
15:01
15:01
15:02
15:02
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill Portrait Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill, Minister of State (Department for Transport) (Labour)
-
-
So my noble friend makes a very good point. The variation in orders for railway rolling stock has, has, has, has really has been feast and famine. It resulted in the closure of several several manufacturing facilities over the last 30 years. There are now there is now one manufacturing plant and and three assembly plants. One of the determinations we have is that the long term rolling stock and. And infrastructure strategy produces a forward a forward. Order book, which is sufficient to keep those plants and the workers who work in them running for the for the long term future.

Accessibility into Macclesfield Station at the moment is severely curtailed for disabled people. The booking hall has been refurbished, which is most welcome, but it'd be really helpful if there was a completion date. Can the noble Lord, the Minister, look into this matter and the travelling public does understand it takes time to do refurbishments, but it would be really helpful if they had a completion date because the dates keep on changing at Macclesfield. I am really sorry. I know quite a lot about the railway system, but I don't know what the completion date for the station at Macclesfield.

It is, but I. But. But I will find out for the noble Lord and. And I will

**** Possible New Speaker ****

write to him. My Lords.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords. May I come back to the question. Borwick. AM I to understand. The
15:03
15:04
15:05
15:06
15:06
None Portrait Oral questions: Reduction in government spending, following Office for National Statistics data on public sector borrowing and 10-year gilt yields increases
-

Fourth Oral Question Lord Leigh of Hurley. Paper. My Lords, UK markets are of course affected by global
15:06
15:07
15:08
15:08
15:08
15:08
15:09
15:10
15:10
15:11
15:12
15:12
15:12
15:13
15:13
15:14
15:15
15:15
15:16
15:16
15:18
None Portrait Legislation: English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill – report stage (day 1) part one
-

be received? As many as their opinion will say content, not content. The contents have it. I right.
15:18
15:19
Lord Freyberg Portrait Lord Freyberg (Crossbench)
-
-
OK my Lord, shall we kick off in clause two, amendment one. Lord Freyberg. >> My Lords, I am pleased to be the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, I am pleased to be the opening speaker of the first day of report of the English Devolution Bill, and I begin by acknowledging Bill, and I begin by acknowledging the government's significant New Amendment Amendment two, which adds culture to the list of areas of competence. This is a hugely important and very welcome step forward, and I thank the government for addressing what has been a clear gap in the Bill. In doing so, I also want to recognise the work of my colleague, the noble Earl of Clancarty, the Minister herself, her officials and others across the House, including the noble Baroness, Lady Griffin, and the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, whose efforts have helped bring this change about, and without whom this admission might well have remained.

The Minister will know that we would ideally have preferred a wording in amendment three, and I will leave it to the noble Earl of Clancarty to explain the importance of the inclusion of the arts in this context, and to the noble Lord Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay to speak to the significance of heritage in his amendment in supporting amendment two. I also support the Government's Amendment 42, which increases the number of commissioners a mayor may appoint from 7 to 10, and I also support the related amendments 43 and 47, which have now been superseded by that government amendment.

This change is sensible and proportionate. If we are recognising additional areas of competence, it follows that mayor should have sufficient flexibility in their leadership structures to reflect those responsibilities, provide subject matter, focus where needed, and ensure that new competences are not merely symbolic but can be exercised effectively. Turning to my own amendment, amendment one, I have brought it back on report because I am seeking further clarity following the Minister's answer in committee and because the government's new amendment two raises related questions about how the framework of completeness will operate in practice, I am therefore grateful to the Local Government Association for their briefing and for their support for this amendment.

My amendment is narrow and a practical one. It simply clarifies that tourism sits within economic development and regeneration, which is how local authorities already understand and deliver it on the ground. The Local Government Association has been clear that within the structure of the bill, the most coherent statutory home for tourism is economic development and regeneration, where it aligns with visitor economy, placemaking and local growth. The Bill recognises this to some extent. Clause 41 extends powers to strategic authorities to encourage and promote visitors and, as the Minister explained in committee, combined authorities and combined county authorities may use these powers to support the visitor economy, hosts events and attract people to their areas.

However, as the LGA has pointed out, that clause reflects a relatively narrow understanding of how tourism policy works in practice. In reality, the visitor economy is closely connected to transport, to regeneration and to wider economic strategy, and therefore greater clarity in the competence framework will help authorities make full and confident use of their powers. This is why I was somewhat surprised by the government's amendment G1t28, which moves clause 41 to a later part of the bill that change risks creating the impression that tourism is being treated as part of culture, rather than as a core element of economic development.

Without explicit inclusion, tourism risks falling between stools assumed but not fully recognised. That matters in practice. Tourism, as we know, is a major economic driver, and the government's decision to introduce powers for an overnight visitor levy reflects the importance of the visitor economy to local growth, regeneration and placemaking. It also illustrates why tourism sits most naturally within economic development. Because the success of the visitor economy depends on the strength of the of the wider offer, including cultural and heritage assets which attract people to to the place in the first instance, as these new levy powers develop, I hope that some of the funds raised will be used to sustain and improve that offer, since visitors are unlikely to to come to theatres, museums, art centres and historic sites if there has been no investment in them.

All of this underlines that tourism policy does not stand alone but must be planned alongside regeneration, transport, culture and local growth, ensuring that tourism sits clearly sits within economic development would therefore help strategic authorities to take that joined up approach. Against that background, it will be helpful if the Minister could explain the government's thinking. In particular, do the government intend tourism to be understood primarily as part of economic development and regeneration, as local authorities currently treat it, or do they envisage it sitting alongside culture following the restructuring of the bill and given the breadth of the competence framework, would the government consider issuing non-statutory guidance after enactment developed with local government and the sector to clarify how these boundaries are intended to operate in practice? My amendment does not seek to change the architecture of the bill.

It simply reflects how local government already works on the ground. For that reason, I hope the Minister will be able to provide reassurance on this point. I beg to move.
15:26
Earl of Clancarty Portrait The Earl of Clancarty (Crossbench)
-
-
Amendment proposed clause two, page two, line 21 at the end insert, including through tourism. >> My Lords, I congratulate the government on introducing their government on introducing their amendment to adding culture to the list of areas of competence, and I say at the outset, I have no intention of taking my own amendment to a vote. The Minister has listened to many of our arguments at Committee stage on this. I think this will make a big difference. It is what much of the arts has been asking for.

The glass is then I would say considerably more than half full. There is. And how there is a. However, although I support Lord Parkinson's Amendment three, adding heritage to the wording. Ideally, I would have preferred the wording in my amendment for the Arts, culture and heritage and I am grateful for the support of Baroness Griffin of Princethorpe and my noble friends Lord Freyberg and Baroness Prashar for that amendment. The word culture on its own is nebulous. So as the Local Government Association themselves recommend, and I quote, to ensure that mayors and strategic authorities can engage with the breadth and diversity of culture in their area, including the arts, heritage and creative industries.

Non-statutory guidance should be co-produced with the sector and published post enactment to better define this area of competence. So I ask the government will they produce such guidance and if so, what will the detail of that guidance be? And are they seeking input into that? The Minister used the phrase arts, heritage and creative industries as being included in culture. In your letter of March the 17th. So what is the basis for that assertion? My Lords? It is the subsidised arts sector, alongside cultural services such as museums and libraries, which I most worry about being overlooked.

New research by equity shows that council arts funding in England fell by 61% between 2010 and 2024, so there is a huge amount of ground to be made up. There is the added concern, as Steve Mannix, CEO of the Mercury Theatre in Colchester, pointed out back in January, an arts professional that, and I quote. As councils merge, a new narrative could take hold. We only need one theatre, stroke museum, stroke Gallery in the new area. As Manik says, this may be efficient on paper, but it is culturally and economically short sighted.

My Lords, I hope very much that the government's amendment will help to counter that. But ultimately, of course, we need significant, significantly more council funding of the arts. My Lords, it's also worth pointing out that Baroness Hodge, who led the Arts Council England Review, said in relation to the bill on March 17th at a culture, Media and Sport Committee meeting and I quote, it's the recommendation that council should have a statutory duty to produce a culture and arts strategy. My Lords, later in the Bill, we will again be discussing local growth plans and I have tabled my amendment for cultural ecosystem Plans.

I mentioned that now only because if we are talking about guidance for culture as an area of competence, it would also be useful to know what might be in the guidance in relation to the requirement, perhaps for a strategy or a plan, although of course, Baroness Hodge did use that word statutory. My Lords, I support what Lord Freyberg said about tourism. Culture is not tourism, and spending on culture should be spending on the arts, not on access roads, leading to a cultural attraction.

For instance, my Lords, as in committee, my amendments 43 and 47 were designed to provide a Commissioner for Arts, Culture and heritage. But the Minister has rather leapfrogged over us with increasing the number of commissioners from 7 to 10. The amendment. The Minister's Amendment 46, is in a later group, but it would nevertheless be helpful to know what the minister's expectations are for a Commissioner for culture. For each of the authorities. My Lords, I am grateful for the discussions a number of us have had with culture Commons.

I'm grateful for the support of the Local Government Association. In summary, my Lords, I am very pleased that the government has made culture an area of competence, and I look forward to hearing more of the detail.
15:30
Baroness Prashar Portrait Baroness Prashar (Crossbench)
-
-
My Lords, I. Too am delighted that the government. this. this. >> Amendment to include culture as the eighth area of competence within the within the Bill, and I within the within the Bill, and I hope that the term culture encapsulates arts and heritage as well as Lord Kilclooney has argued. I do regard this as a very significant and constructive step, and I too have been very pleased to work closely with colleagues across the party in developing the amendments, which have helped to bring the issue to the fore, and I also thank the Noahh Baroness Barran Taylor for the time and the care she has taken to engage with us, and I would also like to acknowledge the role played by Trevor McFarlane and common Cultures for the support they provided to us and across both houses.

During the Second Reading, I argued that the devolution cannot succeed without structures which only promote growth. Important though, that is, devolution in my view, will only succeed if people feel more connected to the places in which they live and if they're able to participate and see themselves as part of the shared civic and cultural life. And that in turn rests the strength of the place's social and cultural fabric. And in a society like ours, the question is not whether we live together alongside difference, but the real question is what holds us together.

And the answer, in my view, is culture, which is fundamental. And it is a thread which weaves difference into unity. And culture is the quite architecture which shapes values and, and, and, and relationships. Now, as this agenda moves into implementation, there will be important questions to address about how local mayors will make this a reality and what guidance will be given and how we maintain the arm's length principle at the subregional level, and how strategic authorities can add value rather than cut across the work of local authorities are already delivering in this policy practice.

So I really am delighted that this has been included. I will not develop the arguments, but I think it's important to understand why culture is a social glue in terms of building society communities at, at, at, at a local level. Therefore, I commend the government for bringing this forward.
15:32
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay Portrait Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Conservative)
-
-
Like others, I can commend the government for its amendment too. We had a good debate about this in We had a good debate about this in committee, with significant support from across your Lordships House for the government to expand the list of strategic competencies in this way. So as the I hope the noble Baroness, the Minister, can hear. We are very glad that she's done so. As you can see from the other amendments that have been tabled in this group. However, the.

The remains are. Enthusiasm for ensuring that we don't just look at culture, but think of culture, heritage and the contribution that our creative industries can make across the board. In committee, the noble Lady. The Minister argued that this was implicit in many of the other strategic competencies. And indeed, when one looks down the list of those, one sees immediately the huge role that culture and heritage can play in skills and employment support, in housing and strategic planning, in economic development and regeneration in the environment and climate change, and in health and well-being.

She was right to argue that culture and heritage should play a part in the work of the new authorities in tackling these, but I'm very glad that there is the further encouragement because not. We know that not all local authorities have been as enlightened or taken advantage of the opportunities that culture and heritage can bring. As I said in committee, when I have the pleasure of being Arts and Heritage Minister, I was critical of local authorities of all parties at every tier that were cutting their spending in culture and missing out on the opportunities of saving in their health and wellbeing budget.

For instance, in missing out on the opportunities of economic development, when one sees what's going on and around the sort of the Kent and Sussex coast, some of the coastal towns like Margate, like Eastbourne, when one looks at the rippling effect down the Tyne and up the north east coast to towns like Whitley Bay, one can see the huge value that arts and culture and heritage can play in delivering the priorities of of local authorities. So I'm glad that this nudge is is being put in, but I am curious to hear from the noble Lady of the Minister why the government has chosen its minimalist description of just culture, rather than some of the alternatives that we looked at in committee, in which other noble Lords have put.

I echo the points that the noble Lord Lord Freyberg, the noble Lord Clancarty, and the noble Baroness Prashar have have made. I hope that often when people think about culture or heritage, they think of this solely as the subsidised sector. The noble Earl of Clancarty is right to talk about the importance of that. This is where the. The new, the experimental, the avant garde, the works that we will come to love in years to, to come can first be be tried.

But actually most theatres in this country are commercial rather than subsidised. Most of the live music venues that are struggling. But surviving in our in our countries are small businesses. They. The commercial element of culture and heritage is important to stress, as indeed is the symbiosis between the two. Most people going to the theatre don't know whether they're going to a subsidised theatre or a commercial theatre. They're just glad that there's one there putting on things, attracting them to make visits and, and, and boosting tourism.

And there is concern, I think whilst there's enthusiasm for the opportunities of the visitor levy that the government is, is embracing, there is concern, as we heard from the local Lord Dear, Lord Freyberg and others, that this could be spent on fixing potholes rather than on fixing the the deficits in cultural and heritage spending that we're seeing in some local authorities. So if the noble Baroness, the Minister has some comments to make on that at the end of this group, I know that would be welcomed, but I commend her for the government amendment, too, and I hope she will, even at this late stage, look at some of the alternative wordings and have some words of reassurance for your Lordships.
15:37
Lord Bassam of Brighton Portrait Lord Bassam of Brighton (Labour)
-
-
So I was happy to co-sign the >> So I was happy to co-sign the government's amendment, putting culture into the bill for one very good reason. I've always thought of good reason. I've always thought of myself as a practical politician, and I currently chair and I should declare an interest really. Brighton and Hove Seafront Development and Reorganisation Board. For our purposes, regenerating our seafront is all about culture, it is about our heritage and it is about the arts. And these things come together.

My understanding of the definition of culture in the context of this bill is that it brings all of those things together, and I think that we should thank the government for having come up with its simple, effective and modest amendment, which I think many of us have campaigned for for a very long time. I don't want to anger the whip by talking for very long, but I did think that it was important that we acknowledge the the big step forward that the government has made here.

And in the context of my own county of Sussex, it was a delight that the House earlier approved the Statutory Instrument because, for our purposes, one of the fastest areas of growth, particularly in the South, will be arts, culture, heritage and and hospitality. And it's the fastest growth sector in the country. So this is a very fortuitous moment. And I think that with the creation of the combined mayoral authorities and the move towards Unitaries, this is a major shot in the arm for local economies.
15:38
Lord Shipley Portrait Lord Shipley (Liberal Democrat)
-
-
Inside the House. And I'm the vice president of the Local vice president of the Local Government Association. Now that we are starting Report stage. And I want to say I agree very much with what the noble Lord Bassam of Brighton has just said, because the word culture to me actually tends to be a lot of things, because tourism relates to culture, heritage relates to culture. Heritage is part of culture. Leisure can indeed be part of, of, of culture. And the creative industries certainly are part of culture.

So I think, I hope the Minister who I commend for the decision that the government has made, is absolutely the right thing to do to extend that list of competencies. But I think that that that it's almost whatever we say or whatever the government says. I suspect that the strategic authorities and mayors are going to say, well, this all Interlinks, let's join it all together, up, up, up, together. That is the role of the strategic authorities. So I just want to welcome all of this because I think it's really very helpful.

I think all the contributions that we had from the noble Lord Freyberg, Earl of Clancarty Baroness Prashar and Lord Wilkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Bassam of Brighton have just given us a dimension to what we mean in this debate. I'd like to repeat very briefly a note of caution that I raised at Committee stage, which is that we would not want local authorities to think that somehow all of these matters are transferred to the mayoral level for heritage and culture.

All of these things are actually very much a function of existing local government. But my Lord, with with, with, with those words, I'd like to commend the government for the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

decision that it's made. All right. Yeah. My Lords, I'm grateful to all

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, I'm grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this opening group, and particularly to my noble friend, Lord Parkinson, for his amendment, highlighting the importance of heritage. And can I also agree with heritage. And can I also agree with my noble friend about the word culture? I think it can mean different things to different different things to different people, so I could. The noble Lady, the Baroness, Baroness, Minister, could she please explain to us, is this going to be clarified in guidelines? Because I think it's going to be very important that that word is clarified.

It. The debate today clearly identifies the importance of to many noble Lords attached to the area, such as tourism, culture and heritage. However, my Lords, it's also brought into focus a more fundamental issue with the bill as drafted, because a central question remains what in practical terms is actually being devolved here? What do these areas of competence mean in terms of real power? My Lords, real responsibilities and real outcomes. The response to that uncertainty cannot simply be to continue adding to the list.

If the framework is unclear, expanding it risks compounding the lack of clarity rather than resolving it. My Lords, and we risk creating a system that is broader on paper, but no more certain in practice. There is also a question of focus. Strategic authorities will need to prioritise and deliver effectively, simply extending the list of competences, however well intentioned risks, diluting that focus and creating expectations that my Lords may not be matched by the powers or resources available. That's not to diminish the importance of the sectors that we've just been discussing.

Far from it. Tourism, culture, whatever that means and heritage are clearly vital to many local economies and communities. But the issue before us is not whether these areas matter, it's whether this bill provides a clear and coherent framework for devolution. At present, we believe that there is a risk that it doesn't. Before adding further competences, we should first be clear about the purpose and effect of those already in the bill, and I do hope the Minister will address that point directly.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, can I thank all noble Lords, particularly for such a positive response to the changes being brought forward in this group? being brought forward in this group? I hope we continue the evening as we've started. That would be we've started. That would be wonderful. Before I. Before I begin, can I thank noble Lords for their very insightful and continued very insightful and continued engagement on this bill, both through the Committee and since then in the various meetings we've then in the various meetings we've held in response to those debates last week, the government tabled a package of amendments which address a number of the points raised during Committee stage.

As I've said before, this bill is the floor, not the ceiling, of the government's ambition on devolution. It will deliver both a landmark transfer of power out of Whitehall to mayors, local leaders and communities, and on the government's commitment to a fit, decent and legal local government. The amendments the government has brought forward continue in that spirit and I look forward to debating them with noble Lords throughout the Report stage. My Lords, I thank the noble Lord Blunkett and the noble Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Freyberg for their comments.

My Lords, the Government Amendment two adds culture as a distinct area of competence within clause two of this bill, culture and its associated sectors the arts, heritage and creative industries has been a topic of considerable debate during the passage of the bill, and I'm very grateful to all those who have participated, including the Earl of Clancarty Baroness Prashar, for their constructive engagement and valuable contributions. Both this government and me personally believe that culture in its many forms visual arts, music, theatre, museums, libraries, combined arts, digital media, literature and heritage enrich our quality of life as well as supporting economic growth and strengthening social cohesion and pride in place.

As your Lordships will know, it's always been the government's
15:45
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage Portrait Baroness Taylor of Stevenage, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Labour)
-
-
position that mayors and strategic authorities can and should support cultural initiatives. So by cultural initiatives. So by including culture as a distinct area of competence, the government is codifying that role in is codifying that role in legislation. And this is a clear signal of this government's commitment to the cultural life of commitment to the cultural life of our nation. This amendment will enable mayors to appoint a commissioner for culture, should they so wish, or convene local partners and collaborate with neighbouring mayors on culture matters.

Government amendment 128 inserts a new subheading, culture into part two of the bill. Clause 41, encouragement of visitors and promotion of visitors will be moved from the economic development and regeneration subheading to the New Culture subheading. Although this amendment refines the bill's structure, promoting an area to visitors remains an effective way to boost economic development and regeneration. Turning to amendments three and four, tabled by Lord Parkinson and the Earl of Clancarty, I really do appreciate the rationale for these amendments, but I fear they would unintentionally narrow the scope of of Strategic Authority's activities.

Let me be clear culture as a broad term will allow mayors to engage in any activity relating to arts and heritage. And can I just respond to the noble Earl of Clancarty question about guidance. We accept that culture is a broad term, and that's why we will be looking to provide clarification in both statutory and non-statutory guidance on the use of this term and to the noble Lord Shipley. I agree that this conferring of a mayoral competency should absolutely not infer that other tiers of local government should take their responsibilities any less seriously than they already do.

It's for all tiers of local government to take responsibility for culture. And as someone who fiercely defended our theatre in Stevenage through years of very swingeing budget cuts, I think it's important that councillors at all levels continue to do that. Turning to amendments 43 and 47, many noble Lords have advocated for flexibility in the commissioner model and for the introduction of commissioners with specific briefs such as rural issues or culture. In a later group on commissioners, I will set out more detail and the government's response to these amendments, which includes increasing the maximum number of commissioners and mayor may appoint from 7 to 10.

But in regard to these two amendments, in response to the question from the noble Earl of Clancarty, I hope noble Lords can see that government amendments 42 and 46 will allow for a Culture Commissioner. I am grateful to the noble Lord Lord Freyberg for amendment one. The noble Lord has drawn welcome attention to the role that tourism can play in supporting local economic growth. I fully acknowledge that these economic benefits exist. However, I do not believe it is necessary to amend the economic development and regeneration area of competence in the way the noble Lord proposes, and I say that with very good reason.

Of course, tourism is a very important part of both economic development and regeneration. I come from the culture where Harry Potter world is a thing, so I know how important that can be. However, when specific terms like tourism are singled out on the face of the bill, the legitimate question arises as to why other aspects of economic development and regeneration, or other aspects of the other areas of competence are not also expressly named. The approach proposed by the noble Lord risks turning each area of competence into an exhaustive and potentially prescriptive list, and our intention is for them to remain broad and flexible.

As your Lordships will know, the Bill already recognises the importance of tourism by expressly conferring a power on strategic authorities to encourage and promote visitors, and this will ensure that combined and combined county authorities can promote tourism, host events and in turn support local businesses. The noble Lord Parkinson asked me a very specific question around the overnight visitor levy, which the government is looking at. Back in November, my department ran a 12 week consultation on the prospect of establishing an overnight visitor levy.

The government is considering all the responses received, and we will publish our response shortly to that. I am sure that this will include assessment of how such funding should be spent, but I will check when the results come out. In response to the noble Baroness Cox comment around the framework for the. This new mayoral authorities, I think we've set out very clearly in the competencies. What the role is of mayors and how we expect them to work in a strategic way to benefit the areas over which they have a democratic mandate.

So I hope that with all these explanations, noble Lords will feel able to withdraw their amendments and support the government's approach to adding culture as an area of competence. And I beg to move my own amendments.
15:50
Lord Freyberg Portrait Lord Freyberg (Crossbench)
-
-
My Lords, I'm grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this short but very important debate. And in particular, I'd like to thank the noble Earl of Clancarty whose expertise and commitment in this area continue to illuminate our discussions and have brought us to this point of having a new area of competence. I would like to thank the noble Lord Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and his point about that. Not all local authorities are similar is worth repeating.

I would also like to thank the noble Baroness Baroness Prashar, who has spoken with such clarity on the importance of placemaking and culture and. And as an area of competence, the noble Lord Lord Bassam made an excellent point about how culture can help growth and Lord Shipley about. About how it's already existing in existing local authorities and. And we shouldn't forget that Baroness Boycott raised the important point about commissioners. And these roles really do need to be ironed out as to what they're doing, so that we have clear oversight of what's happening.

Lastly, I would like to thank the Minister warmly for her reply, which I found genuinely helpful and which I know will be welcomed across the House and further afield. On the broader question of of what we mean by culture, I continue to believe that that clear and detailed guidance will be essential if the competences to be exercised with the clarity for local leaders and the cultural sector generally, as the global Earl of Clancarty and others have so ably argued, both today and committee, there is a meaningful and practical distinction between the arts, cultural services, creative industries, heritage and tourism and without greater definitional clarity, strategic authorities may struggle to know where their responsibilities begin and end.

Nonetheless, I hear what the Minister said on on these and other points, and I welcome her commitment to ensuring that the framework is workable in practice.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I therefore beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Is it your pleasure that amendment one be withdrawn? Amendment by leave withdrawn. Amendment two moved. Formally. Moved formally. Amendment three is an amendment to amendment two. Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay not moved. Parkinson of Whitley Bay not moved. Not moved. That brings us back to amendment two then. So the question is amendment two be agreed to? As I is amendment two be agreed to? As I say, content Of the contrary, not content.

The not contents have it. That brings us on to amendment four. The Earl of Clancarty not moved, not moved. That brings us on to the next substantive group, which is amendment five Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville.
15:53
Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Portrait Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (Liberal Democrat)
-
-
I wish to speak to amendment five in my name and that of Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle. This bill is extensive, covering many areas of local government and aims for the improved delivery of services by local and strategic authorities. The areas of competence for strategic authorities covered by the Bill are listed under clause two and mindful of the whips instructions at the beginning, I won't list them. All of them are extremely important. I am proposing adding rural affairs to that list.

Over the years I have been in your Lordships chamber. I have often promoted the needs of rural affairs to take a more prominent place in government thinking. The previous government brought forward strategies for industry, business, cities, etc. but nothing for rural areas. Why is it that those who live in rural communities get such short shrift? The funding of rural school education is inadequate compared to that received by urban schools. The buses are infrequent, GP surgeries are in larger villages.

The pub has closed, the local shop shop exists on a knife edge. The roads are repaired irregularly and top dressing appears to be a thing of the past. Those who live in rural areas are not living a life of luxury in idyllic countryside, having to travel miles to a supermarket or travel by bus for a GP or dentist appointment, or to get their haircut can be a real problem for the elderly, infirm and young families. Many families may not have a car or perhaps a one car they have is taken by the breadwinner to get to work.

A trip to the GP by bus could well take half a day, and in some areas where there are two buses a day, one going into town in the morning and the other coming back late afternoon, this could take all day. The relevant local parish or town council will be aware of the problems of service delivery in isolated areas. Likewise, the district council, when there was one, also had brilliant knowledge of the problems of their communities. Where the village shop has been threatened.

In some cases, the community have come together to run the shop with volunteers. Likewise, some pubs have been run by community volunteers on the same basis. It is the communities themselves that know who it is that would welcome a lift to town to keep important employment appointments. The larger strategic authorities are unlikely to have this knowledge at their fingertips, so they will need a strategy to support rural areas. Children and young people are particularly disadvantaged by living in rural areas.

The school bus picks them up in the morning and drops them off in the afternoons, but there is nothing to take them to a friend's house three miles away for a chat on a Friday evening. There is no youth club in their hamlet or village where they can relax. With those of a similar age. It is often the case that where there is one, the village bus stop is the congregation point for young people in the early evenings, young people know they won't be disturbed because no bus is going to stop.

Their mum and dad where they have a car will often provide the essential transport for young people to meet up with their friends. Living in a rural area does not mean you wish to give up your independence. Moving to larger, more strategic local government delivery could be a lifesaver for some communities, but it could also mean that the deep rural areas will be overlooked. Population numbers matter when it comes to allocating finance. Everyone understands that the limited amount of resources must cover the greatest number of people, but that should not be an excuse to ignore rural rural deprivation and poverty.

Given the supporters of the amendment in this group, I won't go into detail on the complicated issue of rural housing, where a larger 4 to 5 bedroom homes are often built when what is required is smaller starter homes, both to rent and buy. Others will do this more eloquently than I. This bill is a once in a generation opportunity to get the delivery of services via local government on a quite different level than has previously been the case.

Now is the time for the rural areas to have full consideration in the context of housing and strategic planning, health, wellbeing and public service reform, alongside the other services listed on clause two, rural affairs is a must to add to the list of competences. Rural communities are not a nice to do requirement, they are a must. This group of amendments is essential for rural communities. I welcome the amendments from Baroness McIntosh of Pickering and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon.

I urge the government to take this opportunity to ensure that rural communities are treated on a par with their urban counterparts. I look forward to the noble Lady, the minister's response, and I'm sure she understands the strength of support there is for rural affairs to be recognised and to be on the face of the Bill. I beg to move here.
15:59
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Portrait Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Conservative)
-
-
Amendment proposed clause two, >> Amendment proposed clause two, page two, line 24 at the end insert bracketed H. Rural affairs.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

bracketed H. Rural affairs. I'm grateful to the noble Lady Baroness Bakewell of. Mandeville Baroness Bakewell of. Mandeville for moving so eloquently this First Amendment in this group. I would like to speak in particular to the amendments in my name. Amendments 52, 61 and 326. But I think all the amendments in this group are looking to really put rural areas front and centre. For five years, I had the pleasure and privilege of chairing the select Committee in the Other place for environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and I was delighted with the work we were able to do to put rural affairs front and centre.

I was very proud of the fact that we actually had a rural proofing unit within DEFRA at that time, and so it was a source of great disappointment to me that the rural proofing unit unit was disbanded. If you look at the 2021 consensus, it defines the rural urban classification as urban areas are settlements with a population of 10,000 people or more. On the basis of that census, rural areas are literally everywhere else and they include rural towns, villages, hamlets, isolated dwellings and open countryside.

Nearly 1 in 5 of us live in rural areas. The challenges facing rural areas are very different to the challenges facing urban areas. The cost of living is often greater. We're off the energy grid and dependent on oil in most cases for delivery, and obviously in normal times it's bad enough with Middle East hostilities. At the moment it's a different situation completely. Houses are often poorly isolated. There's a lack of housing, particularly small units of 1 or 2 bedrooms where everybody seems to want to.

All the developers seem to want to build 4 or 5 bedroomed homes for which there is not the same need in rural areas, public services are sparse and cost more to deliver. Whether it's accessing a GP surgery or ambulances or hospitals. Also, school buses is a particular contention at the moment. After the rural Deprivation grant was slashed and abolished by this government. I personally regret the move to combined authorities and metro mayors. I don't believe that they're suited to rural areas and I think when we had the orders on the combined authorities and the Metro mayors for North Yorkshire, it was only the noble Lady Baroness Pinnock and myself who spoke against the move.

I know in North Yorkshire there was a feeling of great loss when we moved away from the districts and the boroughs, which had served North Yorkshire over generations extremely well.
Feed Live - Click to view video
Return to start of debate - Return to top of page