Oral Answers to Questions

Will Quince Excerpts

Monday 25th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

What assessment she had made of the effect of the covid-19 outbreak on trends in the level of child poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Her Majesty’s Treasury’s analysis has shown that the Government’s comprehensive £280 billion response to the pandemic, including a temporary and emergency £6 billion increase to welfare support specifically designed to help low-income families, has supported the poorest working households the most, with the poorest 10% of working households seeing no income reduction.

[Wes Streeting [V]]

It has been clear from what Department for Work and Pensions Ministers have said to the House and in the media that they understand the real difference the £20 a week universal credit uplift has made to some of the poorest families. Given that we know withdrawing that uplift will plunge huge numbers of people into poverty, including 300,000 children, why are Ministers having such a difficult time persuading the Chancellor to do the right thing by the poorest families and tackling child poverty?

[Will Quince]

We are in active discussions with Her Majesty’s Treasury regarding the £20 universal credit uplift. No one in this House wants to see anyone in poverty. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s ask and it comes from the right place, but I would just push back a little and say that, over and above the £100 billion we spend annually on benefits for working-age people to support those facing the most financial disruption throughout this pandemic, we have invested several billion pounds more. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has an unenviable task, but I point out to the House that my right hon. Friend has a proven track record of stepping up and supporting the poorest and most vulnerable in our society. I have no doubt he will continue to do so.

[Chris Elmore [V]]

I understand, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Minister cares deeply about this issue, but I listened to the Secretary of State this morning on broadcast media saying that she was not able to set a particular date because of the active conversations in the Treasury. The Minister just gave the same answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting). Why is the Chancellor not listening? Is he tin-eared on this issue? We are talking about 600,000 extra children in poverty since this Government came into office in 2010. The £20 uplift provides certainty and these people need that security desperately. We cannot be a nation where there are more and more children living in absolute poverty, and more and more families living without savings. That simply is not good enough. I ask the Minister to challenge the Chancellor and ensure we stop more children going into poverty.

[Will Quince]

As I have said, the universal credit uplift is still in place for the remainder of this tax year. Discussions remain ongoing with Her Majesty’s Treasury, and a decision on the future of the universal credit and working tax credit uplift will be taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in due course.

[Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab) [V]]

But the number of children in poverty has increased by 600,000 after housing costs since 2010, and that has been in substantial part due to the £9 billion that the Government have withdrawn from social security since 2015 alone. The universal credit uplift and other measures taken since the beginning of the pandemic will have reduced the number of children living in poverty to 300,000, but can the Minister confirm that if the Government proceed with ending the £20 UC uplift, together with rising unemployment, that will mean, by the end of this Parliament, that they will have seen 700,000 more children cast into poverty than at the beginning?

[Will Quince]

We take the issue of poverty, and tackling poverty, incredibly seriously, and as I made clear, active discussions are ongoing with Her Majesty’s Treasury. But I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with the approach of Labour party: simply throwing money at our benefits system—an approach that, under the last Labour Government, left a generation trapped on benefits, trapped in poverty and incentivised not to work by punitive cliff edges in the legacy benefit system. We will not be going back to those dark old days. We know that work is the best route out of poverty and, under universal credit—our modern, dynamic, agile system—work always pays.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

What recent assessment she has made of trends in the level of poverty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

What recent assessment she has made of the effectiveness of the Government’s definition of care, support and supervision for benefits recipients in (a) supported and (b) exempted housing.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Local authorities apply the “more than minimal” test as part of the process for determining housing benefit for supported accommodation. No assessment has been made of the effectiveness of the “more than minimal” test for care, support and supervision in housing benefit; however, we are reviewing the guidance for local authorities to help improve consistency in decision making.

[Kerry McCarthy]

The Minister and I have talked about this, so he will know that I have real concerns about the exploitation of vulnerable people in the supported housing sector by landlords who know that they can charge much higher rents by providing only “more than minimal” support. Will the Minister look at the regulations to see whether they can be tightened up? I know that pilots are going on and consideration is being given to whether we can regulate supported housing, and that might be one way to do it.

[Will Quince]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that work is under way in this policy area. The DWP Minister in the Lords remains responsible for the policy; she is offering to all MPs and peers a session on 24 February at which they can raise any areas of concern, so I will make sure the Lady is invited to that. We recognise that there are problem areas and I share a number of the hon. Lady’s concerns, but it is important to stress that the majority of supported housing is provided by well-run, registered social landlords with a strong social mission.

[David Johnston (Wantage) (Con)]

What support her Department is providing to vulnerable people to help meet essential costs in winter 2020-21.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con)]

What progress her Department is making on the roll-out of universal credit to eligible (a) claimants and (b) people on legacy benefits during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Since the start of the pandemic, the welfare safety net has been there to support nearly 6 million claimants. Parliament has voted for universal credit and to end legacy benefits. The nationwide roll-out of universal credit was successfully completed in December 2018, and we are committed to ensuring that those on legacy benefits move across in a safe and secure way.

[Mr Holden]

I thank the Minister for his answer. It is quite clear that, during the coronavirus pandemic, alongside our massive vaccine programme and world-leading support of £4,000 a head—£280 billion in total—universal credit has been a real success. I praise the officials in Crook and Consett in my constituency for the work that they have done. Does the Minister agree that the last thing we should be doing is moving to scrap universal credit, which is a system that is really helping thousands of my constituents? Does this not show how out of touch the Opposition are, when this system is benefiting millions of people across the country at this incredibly difficult time?

[Will Quince]

I completely agree; universal credit is a modern, dynamic, agile and fairer welfare safety net, which, in the face of unprecedented demand, ensured that millions of people were paid in full and on time. This is a system that, by any measure, has passed the most challenging of tests, supporting nearly 6 million vulnerable people through this pandemic. There is little doubt that, had we relied on the legacy benefits system, we would have seen queues down the streets outside jobcentres, and long delays leaving families facing financial disruption without support.

[Mr Simon Clarke (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Con)]

What assessment her Department has made of the effectiveness of universal credit in supporting people during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Thanks to universal credit’s modern, dynamic and agile system, it has effectively supported nearly 6 million people, with over 90% of new claimants receiving their first payment in full and on time. This is in stark contrast to the paper-based legacy system, which would have seen queues outside our jobcentres and would have buckled under the pressure.

[Mr Clarke [V]]

I have seen for myself on visits to the fantastic jobcentres in Guisborough and Loftus how the teams there really value universal credit, and how it has helped to support people over the last turbulent year. Will my hon. Friend reassure my constituents that there is no question of universal credit going anywhere, and does he agree that the Leader of the Opposition calling for it to be scrapped is simply the height of opportunism and irresponsibility?

[Will Quince]

The universal credit system and tens of thousands of dedicated, incredible DWP staff have processed an unprecedented number of claims—over 3 million since mid-March. It is not just my hon. Friend who is saying this; the IFS slammed Labour’s pledge to scrap UC as uncosted, as well as,

“unwise…expensive, disruptive and unnecessary.”

The Government believe that work should always pay and we need a welfare system that helps people into work, supports those who need it and is fair to those who pay for it. Remember: no Labour Government have ever left office with unemployment lower than when they started.

[Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

What recent estimate she has made of the average time her Department takes to process a work capability assessment referral.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab) [V]]

The Secretary of State should be ashamed that right across the UK, food banks, schools, charities and communities have had to mobilise to feed hungry children because of the inadequacy of the welfare state. Analysis from the House of Commons Library shows that 680,000 of these children could be lifted out of poverty if universal credit was not cut and child benefit was increased by just £5 per week. Why will she not implement those changes?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

We keep all policies under review, including the uplift to universal credit, which is under active discussion between our Department and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I would gently push back on what the hon. Lady said and alert her to the fact that in 2020-21, we will spend more than £120 billion on benefits for working-age people. That is £120,000 million—around £1 in every £8 that the Government spend; three times the defence budget, and nearly as large as the NHS budget. We continue to support people throughout this country during the pandemic.

[Mr Speaker]

Let us head up to Andrew Percy in Brigg.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

People who receive legacy benefits were excluded from the uplift to universal credit, but the Government have now announced plans for an uplift this April of 0.5%. If people are claiming ESA in the work-related activity group, that equates to 37p a week, which is derisory. We need to ensure that people on legacy benefits receive a proper degree of support, so as part of the Secretary of State’s review of the UC uplift that she mentioned earlier, will she commit to providing a similar uplift to legacy benefits?

[Will Quince]

First, let me say that I appreciate that many people are facing financial disruption due to the pandemic, and the Government have put unprecedented levels of support in place. As the hon. Lady rightly points out, legacy benefits are being increased by 0.5% this year, on top of the 1.7% last year. Legacy benefit claimants can make an application for universal credit, but what I would say is that I encourage them to check on one of the benefit calculators on gov.uk. Once they make an application to universal credit, their entitlement to legacy benefits will cease, so it is very important that they do check first.

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con) [V]]

Ministers have shown from the Dispatch Box this afternoon how effective the benefits system has been in providing support throughout the pandemic. However, my constituent who is only able to work on an intermittent basis tells me that she is not eligible for support for mortgage interest, and that she would have been better off had she not worked at all. What assessment have Ministers made of the support level for homeowners?

[Will Quince]

The qualifying period for support for mortgage interest is in place because it is reasonable for homeowners to make arrangements with their lenders, to manage any loss of income for a short period, without the state needing to intervene. Homeowners struggling with mortgage repayments because of covid-19 should contact their lender as soon as possible to discuss what support may be available. At present, the Department has no plans to amend the qualifying period for support for mortgage interest, but I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the matter at length.

[Mr Speaker]

I will now suspend the House for three minutes to enable the necessary arrangements for the next business to be made.