Unpaid Carers: Inequalities

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Thursday 20th November 2025 Westminster Hall

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

It is a pleasure, as always, to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. I thank the hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) for securing this important debate in honour of carers’ day-to-day rights, and for her work in the all-party parliamentary group on carers. I declare an interest as an honorary vice-president of Carers UK and a trustee of the board of Fife Carers Centre; both are incredible organisations. I also want to recognise other organisations that provide support in this area, include Sheffield University’s Centre for Care, the Carers Trust and Fife Young Carers, which provides support to young carers in my North East Fife constituency and beyond.

Unpaid care is part of almost all our lives, whether we recognise it or not. I am no exception. When I started campaigning for the Liberal Democrats, and then became an MP under the leadership of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), who is a carer himself and a prominent activist—in fact, I almost once described him as my carer—I became truly involved with the fight for the rights of unpaid carers. As a newish Back-Bench MP, it was an incredible opportunity, and it was also quite fun and exciting to be able to get a law passed: the private Member’s Bill that became the Carer’s Leave Act 2023.

Looking back now, what I remember most is the amazing people I met during that time in North East Fife, and throughout the country—just a handful of the 5.8 million unpaid carers, impressive in their resilience, love and thoughtfulness. I was moved by what was behind that resilience and humour: the tiredness, strain and financial difficulties, as well as the constant worry of thinking about someone else.

I intend to use my time to reflect on the 2023 Act and what more needs to be done. It is disheartening that, in the two and a half years since the Act was passed, evidence suggests that things are still getting worse. Research by Carers UK, “State of Caring 2025”, which the hon. Member for Shipley referred to, shows that 49% of carers have had to cut back on essentials; in 2023, that figure was 34%, already elevated from 25% in 2022, and it was just 13% in 2021. This is not the result of bad luck or the same impact from the cost of living crisis as we all see; the rate of poverty among unpaid carers is 50% higher than in the rest of the population. This is clearly the outcome of structural inequalities that the Government need to address.

There are some other things that the Government can do immediately to ease the financial burden on unpaid carers, particularly those in receipt of carer’s allowance. I pay tribute to the long work of Baroness Pitkeathley on behalf of unpaid carers, both in the other place and beyond. On Tuesday, she asked the Minister of State at the Department for Work and Pensions in the House of Lords when we can expect the publication of the independent review into carer’s allowance overpayments. I would be most grateful for some further detail on that from the Minister and colleagues in the DWP, other than “by the end of the year”, given that it is only four weeks until the House rises for Christmas recess. When in that period can we expect the report to be published, and will there be time for parliamentary scrutiny of it? The overpayments scandal has affected thousands of people across the UK. The last thing that unpaid carers, and indeed the MPs representing them, want is a written statement hurriedly published in late afternoon on 18 December.

As we are still awaiting publication of the review and the Government’s response to it, I will set out some of the reforms needed to end the financial inequalities experienced by unpaid carers. The carer’s allowance earnings threshold must be pegged to the minimum wage, so that no unpaid carers in work ever find themselves earning “too much”, simply because the Government made it so. The rules on what unpaid carers can earn must be made clearer, and DWP staff must be trained better to prevent future inadvertent overpayments. Of course, the Timms review of personal independence payments must make sure not to disadvantage unpaid carers. I should acknowledge that my constituents in Scotland are now in receipt of the equivalent carer’s support payments.

Referring again to the Carer’s Leave Act, last night I attended the carers’ rights event in Parliament, where I was pleased to speak to a number of businesses that are already going above and beyond the provisions in the Act. They are doing that because they believe it makes good business sense. For them, it is about the psychological contract, improving employees’ loyalty and retaining them—staff retention is as important as recruitment.

I am pleased that the Government have published their terms of reference for the review of the Act. That has, in some respect, answered what was going to be my first question to the Minister. The bad news is that I have some other reflections on the back of yesterday’s announcement. The terms of reference published yesterday give a timeline for evidence gathering that started over a year ago, in autumn 2024. That is quite a lot of time for the Government to have been doing engagement and commissioned research before coming to Parliament or even announcing the review and what it aims to achieve. Will the Minister update us on what evidence and engagement has been secured to date?

There is a formal public consultation of 10 to 12 weeks to seek views. I know that unpaid carers, the networks that represent them and the organisations offering support will want to respond, but most of these structures are manned and run by volunteers or paid staff who are already stretched, and we know that unpaid carers have more than enough to deal with on a day-to-day basis already, and often feel guilty about the admin involved in their lives. Have the Government considered whether the 10-week consultation period will be long enough? What steps will they take to reach people and engage on the ground?

On the findings of the review, I have my suspicions, which I have raised with the Government before, that not enough businesses were made aware of the new right under the Act. I fear not enough businesses trained their managers, HR teams and employees about it, and I fear that the Government gave insufficient information to employers and businesses about their obligations. Without adequate communications, not enough unpaid carers knew to see themselves as carers or that they were entitled to the support. If it is going to be a paid leave right, if that is the direction of travel, we need to get better at those things. I want to say in words the Government will understand that I firmly believe paid carer’s leave supports the growth agenda and will help the economy.

One thing I have loved about joining the board of Fife Carers is seeing the impact on the local organisation and volunteers. The centre was shortlisted as a finalist for providing outstanding carer service at this year’s inaugural Carers UK awards. That is quite something for an organisation that started with just one part-time worker 30 years ago. The nomination recognised the value of the support the organisation provides, whether its hospital carer self-care kits or its carer support groups. I had the pleasure of attending one in Leven recently and people were not backward in coming forward to talk about the changes they want to see.

Whether someone is working and caring or caring full time, they will inevitably be exhausted. The “State of Caring 2025” report says that 74% of carers feel stressed or anxious, and 42% say their physical health has declined. We all need a break sometimes; carers need and deserve it more than most, but how are they to manage that when they have someone relying on them day in, day out? The answer is funded respite care. I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Alison Bennett), my party’s spokesperson for care and carers, will mention that, given that she has a Bill before Parliament to ensure that unpaid carers are offered respite. I support that wholeheartedly. I hope the Minister can give us an update on that, too.

I am conscious of time, so I will end my remarks there. Inequalities exist and we have a responsibility here in this place to address them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Bennett (Mid Sussex) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. I thank the hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) not only for securing this important debate on Carers Rights Day, but for all her work championing carers since her election to Parliament.

I welcome yesterday’s publication of the terms of reference of the employment rights for unpaid carers review, which suggests that the Government are looking in the right direction. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) noted, the pace is not as fast as it could be—it has already been going a year—and the period of consultation may actually be too short, given the demands that carers and the people who support them face, as everybody in this Chamber understands. I hope this review will usher in paid carer’s leave, as it would make the biggest difference for those on the lowest wages, who cannot currently afford to take unpaid carer’s leave.

This year, the theme of Carers Rights Day is, “Know your rights, use your rights”. It is all about making sure, as hon. Members have noted, that the millions of unpaid carers who support loved ones through illness and disability, know that they have access to support and rights, such as carer’s assessments, carer’s leave and hospital discharge support.

In my Mid Sussex constituency and across the UK, hundreds of thousands of people are waiting for social care. Many are stranded in hospital beds simply because the support they need in the community is not there, which in turn puts immense strain on our already creaking NHS. That is why my Liberal Democrat colleagues and I are campaigning so passionately for a social care system that values care users, supports care workers and, crucially, recognises the millions of unpaid carers who quietly keep this country going.

The hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Dr Chowns) set out her frustrations, which we share, with the pace of the Casey review. It is worth noting that only one cross-party meeting has happened since the Secretary of State announced that review in January, and a second meeting has not yet been convened. Can the Minister advise us when we can expect to secure a second meeting?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I want to express my thanks to Baroness Casey, who, although she has been appointed to this commission, is doing other work for the Government. I would not want that to go unrecognised when we are talking about the delays.

[Alison Bennett]

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend’s excellent point. It is regrettable that there seems to be only one person that the Government like to call on to do very important work across a number of different areas.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stuart Andrew (Daventry) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Ms Vaz. I am pleased to respond to this important debate on behalf of the Opposition, and I thank the hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) for securing it and for her long-standing leadership on carers’ rights.

I acknowledge the contributions made by hon. Members across the House this afternoon. They have spoken very openly about their personal experiences, which helps to bring alive this debate and these issues. I am conscious that the hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) talked about how much work he has to do before he even gets to work, which reflects what so many people across the country feel. As has just been said, unpaid carers are the backbone of our care system. They provide vital support to loved ones, often around the clock and with little recognition, and at great personal cost. This debate is therefore not just timely, but probably overdue.

Before entering Parliament, I spent over 15 years working mainly in palliative care, and much of that in children’s hospices—lastly at Martin House children’s hospice up in Yorkshire. I saw the extraordinary compassion, amazing resilience and sacrifice from unpaid carers every single day, whether from parents caring for their terminally ill children, many of whom had very complex needs, or relatives supporting someone at the end of their life—people managing both care and grief at the same time. I will always remember one parent saying they would consider it a good night’s sleep if they got up only eight times in the night to help their daughter, which gives an indication of how much work they do. As the hon. Member for Shipley said, so many carers end up giving up work because they have to provide that care. Sadly, so many relationships break down because of the pressures.

I now find myself having to care for my elderly father. I had to move him into my home, and I am now seeing at first hand the things people have to do. When I am here, I always worry, “Is he okay? Is there enough food and milk in the fridge?” I also watch every single move he makes. I once turned my back, for literally a minute, and he fell flat on his face. I realise that it was not my fault, but I cannot help but have those feelings of guilt.

I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for her amazing work on the Carer’s Leave Act. That really is important, and the cross-party support for it showed Parliament at its best. It is great that carer’s leave is now a day one right and that it can be taken flexibly, because that is what unpaid carers need. They need to be able to take that half-day, or full day, if they need it because, as we have heard, one in seven are juggling work and caring responsibilities. I thank the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage), who I know would like to have been here today—she gave quite a bit of support during the Act’s passage—for encouraging the previous Government.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind comments. Passing a private Member’s Bill is obviously more straightforward with Government support, which I had, so I am grateful to him and his colleagues.

[Stuart Andrew]

It just shows how, when Parliament works well, it works exceptionally well.

I want to repeat some of the comments that have been made. The Government have launched a review of the potential benefits of paid carer’s leave, with the conclusions coming at the end of the year, I believe. As others have said, that is welcome, but I am sure that carers would hope that there will be clarity and no delays.

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to some of the issues that have been raised in this debate, and to hearing whether the Government are genuinely open to acting on the review’s findings. A fair point has been made about the length of time that people have to contribute to that consultation, given the responsibilities that they have. We must ensure that the consultation is accessible. I was a critic of this when we were in government, but doing just online consultations means that those who are not digitally savvy can be excluded. It is important we make sure that is not happening.

As other hon. Members have said, the financial pressures on carers remain severe, with one in four unpaid carers living in poverty. The employment rate among carers is just 50%, compared with 75% across the general population, but with the right support an estimated half a million carers could return to work. That would not only strengthen their security but contribute to the economy, which is what we all want to see.

In fairness, it is not just the Government who have to act; there is a responsibility on employers, too. I saw in the hospices that some businesses took on our young adults despite their life-limiting conditions. The employers told us that what they got from those individuals was utterly amazing, and that they were really dedicated to their work.

The recent increase to the carer’s allowance earnings limit is a step in the right direction, for which I thank the Government. However, the Carers Trust has rightly called for a full review of carer’s allowance and the wider support system. I am keen to hear whether that is something the Government are considering.

I am also concerned that the level of respite support has been falling, and has dropped by 6% in local authorities in the last year alone. I am concerned about, and pay tribute to, the charities that offer so much respite support. I know, from my consultations with charities, that the rise in national insurance contributions has had an impact, and that they have had to reduce and scale back their staffing. That is a concern, and I hope we recognise the size of their contribution.

At the hospices at which I worked, it was not just about end-of-life care. Some of the most important care they provided was respite stays. Either the child came on their own so that the family might go on holiday, or the whole family came together, which gave them the opportunity to be a family again. The child who needed care was being looked after by the care team, which meant the parents could be parents again to the siblings, who often miss out in such situations.

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 19th November 2025 Westminster Hall

[Tessa Munt]

I could not agree more. For far too long, patients have been dismissed, and that care element is incredibly important, because it affects so many people.

In July, the Department of Health and Social Care published the final delivery plan for ME, a cross-Government strategy aiming to improve attitudes, bolster research and better lives. It included some positive steps: new small grants for research into repurposed medications, and the development of a new service specification for mild and moderate ME. However, overall, the consensus of the charities and patient advocates I have spoken to is clear: the delivery plan falls far short of what was needed.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I am interested in what my hon. Friend says about plans in England, because in my constituency we were privileged to have an incredible ME specialist nurse, Keith Anderson, who helped countless people. Sadly, he passed away two years ago, and since then there has been no specialist support in Fife—indeed, there is no specialist ME doctor or nurse in the whole of Scotland. Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the things any plan needs to consider is training, so that, no matter where someone is in the country, they can get access to a specialist?

[Tessa Munt]

I agree. In fact, we do not just need specialists; we also need training for GPs and other healthcare workers.

I will highlight four areas in which we need to see much more from the Government going forward. Given the gravity of the situation, I would appreciate it if the Minister could arrange for written responses to a number of my points.

The first area is funding. If the delivery plan felt threadbare, that is because no substantive new funding was attached to it. Before the plan was published, all 72 Lib Dem MPs signed a letter expressing our concerns about the anticipated lack of funding, which of course came to pass. To put it bluntly, what patients need is transformed NHS care and a step change in research. Neither is likely to happen without investing some money.

The case for investment is clear. I urge the Minister to see this not as a sunk cost, but as an investment in a group of people who are desperate to contribute to society. We know that one in five working-age adults are out of the workforce, many because of health problems, yet remarkably there was no modelling of the demography of those living with ME for the delivery plan exercise, and neither the Department of Health and Social Care nor the Department for Work and Pensions has an estimate of what the neglect of people with ME is costing our economy.

I would like to look at some of the figures. The most recent estimate of the economic impact of ME was for 2014-15—10 years ago—and was carried out by 20/20health. The cost was then calculated at £3.3 billion annually, based on only 260,000 people living with ME. With many more affected following the pandemic and a decade of inflation, that cost will now be much higher. Even the most conservative estimate of current numbers living with ME, excluding cases linked to long covid, puts them at 404,000 patients. Does the Minister accept, using that conservative estimate and adjusting for inflation, the annual economic impact of ME today is likely to be at least £7 billion? If those living with ME-like symptoms following covid are included, we could be approaching an annual cost of £20 billion. Surely it is time for the Government properly to cost the impact of a condition that affects so many, rather than brush it under the carpet, and to invest accordingly.

Covid: Fifth Anniversary

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Member for West Ham and Beckton (James Asser) for securing the debate, and for the eloquent and passionate way in which he spoke. I agree that it has been hard preparing for this debate, because in many ways I think we have still to come to terms with what happened. For me, it was particularly strange as a new MP, as I was at the start of 2020. I arrived in this place expecting everything to be seen, debated and understood through the lens of Brexit, because that was how it had been in the recent years up to that point. Just three months after my election, we saw covid and national lockdowns, and everything changed. I recruited staff, handed them laptops and did not know when I would see and engage with them again.

This place was diminished too. The benefit of developing cross-party relationships is so valuable and we do not realise that until there is no opportunity for it. In the same way the hon. Member for West Ham and Beckton thanked those in his community, I recognise the staff here who did so much to facilitate the sitting of this House and the work that needed to be done.

Every day, as I come here, I walk past the national covid memorial. On a couple of occasions I have seen people updating or enhancing some of the fading that has taken place—and it is important that we do that. The memorial is across from this place, and we take this moment to remember the 200,000-plus people who died from covid-19 in the UK. The memorial is a daily, poignant reminder of the cruel, devastating and terrifying disease that covid was, especially in those early months. For those affected, the pain of that loss is still acute.

As a Scottish MP, I want to touch on how policy responses to the pandemic highlighted that often we do not have four-nation thinking and decision making. In those early days, everything was aligned and we saw the strength of intergovernmental thinking and decisions. As hard as it was, there was one set of rules and they applied everywhere. There is no doubt, however, that as time went on, the rules got more complex—inside, outside, work, two metres, rule of six and tiers—and they differed between the four nations. I had to have covid apps for Scotland and for England, and occasionally got pinged in different places by different apps. Another example from my constituency was the impact on golf and tourism, and that included the impact of the different rules.

We need to learn those lessons, and I am pleased to see that there is better intergovernmental working between the Scottish and UK Governments. However, where we have different policy responses, we always need to ensure that they are good, they are clear and they are for the right reasons.

Oral Answers to Questions

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

My hon. Friend is right: we will reform the dental contract to rebuild dentistry in the long term and to increase access to NHS dental care, with a shift to focusing on prevention and the retention of NHS dentists. We continue to meet representatives from the British Dental Association and other representatives of the sector to discuss how we can best deliver our shared ambition to improve access for NHS dental patients.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the potential impact of proposed changes to employer national insurance contributions on staffing costs for health and care providers.

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)]

The leadership shown by the Chancellor has enabled her and the Government to fix the foundations of the public finances and fill the £22 billion black hole left by the previous Government. The decisions that she took meant that she was able to provide this Department with an extra £26 billion and a real-terms increase in core local government spending power by about 3.2%. That was the right decision for the right reasons in the national interest, and I am taking into consideration pressures on all parts of health and social care before making final allocations for the year ahead.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

In North East Fife, we have a particular issue with access to dental surgeries, especially with the recent closure of a surgery in Leven. Difficulties stem from recruitment from abroad as a result of visa changes and also simply from practices going private and coming out of the system. Obviously, the NHS is devolved in Scotland, but does the Secretary of State agree that putting staffing under further strain from increasing national insurance contributions will only make things worse for dentists? What in his conversations is he doing to ensure that dentists get the support that they need?

[Wes Streeting]

It is because the Chancellor took the decisions that she did in the Budget that my Department has received £26 billion to reform and improve health and social care. As I said before the general election, all parts of the United Kingdom suffered under the previous Conservative Government, which is why I am sure that Members from across Scotland will welcome the extra £1.5 billion this year and £3.4 billion next year—the biggest funding increase since devolution. I am sure that the SNP Government will welcome the increase, and they certainly have no excuses now for not acting.

Access to Primary Healthcare

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Helen Morgan]

No, I will make some progress.

People do much better if they have access to continuity of care, but 8,000 more GPs are needed to deliver the rights that we laid out in our manifesto. We do not shy away from the fact that that is an ambitious objective, and we accept that it cannot be achieved through training and recruitment alone: we need to retain and incentivise our existing workforce. As I said earlier, seeing people in their communities avoids hospital admissions and saves money. Unfortunately, although the Conservatives promised us 6,000 more GPs in 2019, we ended up with 500 fewer. That is why people are so frustrated. According to the findings of research carried out by the House of Commons Library, GP funding has fallen by £350 million in real terms since 2019. As a result, not only are people struggling to gain access to basic care in their communities, but there is a postcode lottery when it comes to availability of that care.

In the area where I live, which is covered by NHS Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin, the number of fully qualified GPs fell from 280 in 2016 to 242 in 2023, despite an increased and increasingly ageing population with a much higher level of demand, while 43% of patients are waiting more than 28 days for non-urgent appointments. The Darzi report showed that the number of people waiting for long periods for appointments is rising throughout the country: it is a national issue. We know that from our own doorstep conversations.

Members might ask me, “Where are you going to get 8,000 more GPs from? That is a big number.” Apart from training new ones, we should value greatly our experienced ones. A recruitment and training programme is one idea, and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) pointed out, using the dentists we have trained properly is extremely important, but we also need to focus on retention and incentivising our existing GPs, to ensure that we hold on to valuable experience and valuable patient continuity.

Let me move on from GPs to local pharmacies. Pharmacy First was a great idea of the previous Government —I am willing to give them credit—but pharmacists are under huge strain. According to the Darzi report, some 1,200 have closed since 2017, and spending under the community contract has fallen. Tomorrow I am going to visit Green End pharmacy in Whitchurch, in my constituency, which wrote to me:

“As an independent pharmacy, we’re unable to keep on absorbing costs with losses on dispensing.”

The pharmacy is struggling because it is making losses on the drugs that it gives out on prescription. Given that it is a small, independent pharmacy, it does not have a massive shop from which to make profits to subside that work.

In 2023, Community Pharmacy England warned of

“systemic pharmacy funding cuts of at least 25% in real terms since 2015.”

That has led to a postcode lottery of access, and to many pharmacies being unable to have a full-time pharmacist and relying on locums, which has led to a really poor and insecure level of service. That is impacting on people who just need to go and pick up their prescription and get on with their day.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

The NHS is devolved in Scotland, but the UK Government have responsibility for continuity of supply of medications. I have constituents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder who have been waiting for up to a year to secure that continuity of supply. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to see more action from the Government, who should be proactive in that regard?

[Helen Morgan]

That is a really important point. A lot of people in my constituency have contacted me for help with drugs—for example, to deal with ADHD. People need to be able to access important medication readily.

We must not forget the dentistry element of primary care. A generation of children are at risk of poor oral health because of the mess in which dentistry has been left by the previous Government. Tooth decay is the biggest cause of children being admitted to hospital, with over 100,000 admitted since 2018. That is totally unacceptable. Some 4.4. million children have not been seen by an NHS dentist in the last year, according to the House of Commons Library.

Dentistry is really important for children—they have to keep their teeth for the rest of their lives—but this issue affects adults too. My constituent Ron Kelly, who is 62, is disabled and lives in Market Drayton. Members who have been around a while might know that it is not easy to catch a bus to anywhere from Market Drayton. He has not been able to find a dentist since 2019, and my caseworkers have rung every NHS dentist in our constituency. None of them is taking on new patients, so even if he was able to use the bus, he would not be able to find an NHS dentist in North Shropshire at the moment.

Office for National Statistics data released last week shows that, in the midlands, 99% of people who do not have an NHS dentist, and who are trying to find an appointment, cannot access one—99%! It is just unbelievable in a modern country in the 21st century.

Unpaid Carers

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is great to be back, and to see you in the Chair. I congratulate you on your new position.

Caring or being cared for is an almost universal experience. Almost everybody will find themselves being an unpaid carer for their loved ones at some point in their life, or being cared for by loved ones. Who among us does not know somebody who is helping an elderly parent, or supporting a family member with a long-term illness? As new MPs will come to learn, almost every week here, we have an opportunity to learn about and mark a national awareness day for a different devastating illness. For every person suffering from those illnesses, there will inevitably be a family member—unseen—supporting and caring for them.

According to the recent census, there are 5.7 million unpaid carers in England and Wales, but those are just the people who recognise themselves as such. In 2022, Carers UK research estimated that there were up to 10.6 million unpaid carers. Whichever figure we use, that is a huge number, and the figure is growing. According to very recent research published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, by 2035 there will be an 11% increase in the number of unpaid carers, and as degenerative conditions, including chronic degenerative conditions, become more prevalent, the amount of care that carers do is predicted to go up; it is expected that ever more will provide more than 35 hours of care each week.

The Government should care about carers, not just because that is the right thing to do, and not even because unpaid carers are in homes across every constituency in the UK, but because we need them. Unpaid carers are absolutely vital to our economy and our society.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for bringing this debate forward. The House is fuller than usual for this Adjournment debate, which indicates the importance of the issue. Every one of us knows people who are carers. I care for my brother, who had a big accident 20 years ago, and I understand what it means to be a carer and to be available at all times, as others do. Does the hon. Lady agree that respite for carers is an essential component of support, and that inability to access respite care will push many into making the unwanted decision to give up caring and instead institutionalise the people they care for, due to the unbearable pressure on their mental health?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for that intervention. He is absolutely right, and as he and I know, having served in the last Parliament, during covid the lack of respite care was a critical factor for many carers. It is clear that we all need to do more in that area.

We were talking about how vital carers are to our economy and society. The economic value of unpaid care is £162 billion a year in England and Wales, £13.1 billion in Scotland and £5.8 billion in Northern Ireland. We know the country’s finances have been left in a ruinous state by the last Government, and that the social care system is already stretched to breaking point. We must also know that we cannot take the contribution of unpaid carers for granted, so I hope that the Minister will take tonight as an opportunity to show that the Government do care about unpaid carers.

In a debate shortly before the general election was called, the then shadow Minister for care, who is now a Minister, the hon. Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), committed Labour to developing a new carers strategy if it formed the next Government:

“There will be a carers strategy under the next Labour Government, because we value the vital work our carers do. It will be a cross-Government strategy with the Department for Work and Pensions, Department for Education and the future of work review all feeding into it along with the Department of Health and Social Care. There is a brighter future for those living with dementia and their families and carers. Labour will deliver it.”

Given that promise, I hope that the Minister can understand why I and many whom I have spoken to in the care third sector were disappointed that unpaid carers were not mentioned at all in the Labour manifesto. At the same point in the speech I just referred to, the then shadow Minister said that unpaid carers

“will be at the heart of Labour’s plans in Government.” —[Official Report, 16 May 2024; Vol. 750, c. 228WH.]

I hope the Minister will take tonight’s debate as an opportunity to make that case.

[Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing forward this Adjournment debate, and of course for the work she did before this parliamentary Session on what is now the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. One of the reasons why I became involved in politics is that the day before I started my master’s degree, my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer. I studied my degree part-time over two years to look after her and my little sister, who was just five. Looking back, it is clear that I was filling the role of a carer, but I did not identify as one. That is a key point to note if we are to have a carers strategy. A recent Carers Trust survey found that 73% of those who provide or have provided unpaid care do not identify as unpaid carers. Does my hon. Friend agree that a national carers strategy should prioritise the identification of carers across all sectors?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Ghani)]

Order. This is an Adjournment debate and interventions must be super-short.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It demonstrates how prevalent caring is in our society when we have Members who have direct experience of it. Identification of carers, or people identifying themselves as carers, is a key issue that any strategy should address.

The then shadow Minister was right that we need a cross-Government strategy. This is not a new idea, because we have had such strategies before; the last one was drawn up all the way back in 2008, but the problems that unpaid carers face have not gone away. Unpaid carers are significantly more likely to be in poverty than the rest of the population. The most recent data available from the Department for Work and Pensions—the 2023 family resources survey—shows that just under a third of households in receipt of carer’s allowance are food insecure, compared with 10% of households as a whole. That is a huge difference.

To assess food insecurity, the survey asks the respondent whether in the past 30 days: they have has eaten less than they felt they should because of lack of funds; they have been hungry, but not eaten due to lack of funds; or they have lost weight due to not enough money for food. It also asks whether they or someone in their household has gone without eating for an entire day because they lack money for food. Further, the survey found that 13.3% of households in receipt of carer’s allowance—that is just more than one in every eight—had used a food bank in the previous 12 months, compared with just 3% of households overall.

[Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)]

I commend the hon. Lady for her work to ensure that the millions of unpaid carers in the UK are both valued and supported. As has already been mentioned, I commend her for successfully bringing forward her private Member’s Bill, the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. Under that Act, carers have an entitlement to a week of unpaid leave. Does she agree that further action is needed to ensure that those carers juggling work and care can continue to stay in employment, avoiding the poverty trap that she describes?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Member. My party’s policy is that carer’s leave should be paid. At the moment, we are formalising a system that already worked for people in asking for time off unpaid with the employer’s agreement, and potentially not taking sickness or annual leave. They are not getting remunerated for taking that leave, and I am cognisant of that.

Going back to my evidence on food banks, the research from the sector aligns with that survey data. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s 2024 report on UK poverty found that 29% of carers live in poverty. More than half of the carers who responded to the Carers Trust adult carer survey in 2022 said that they are struggling to make ends meet as a result of those caring responsibilities. As the hon. Member just said, one of the main reasons for unpaid carers being in poverty is that it is difficult to stay in work as a carer, especially full-time work.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for securing this excellent debate. Across the United Kingdom, some 60% of carers are women, with many having to give up employment, reduce their hours or take a less qualified job. Does she agree that needs to be a top priority when the Government are looking at this issue?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

Yes, I absolutely agree. When we think about pension inequality, we know that women are more likely to be caring and so are unlikely to be able to build up a full pension entitlement, which compounds the poverty that the hon. Member describes.

A 2019 Carers UK report on the difficulties of juggling unpaid care with employment found that around 600 people a day are giving up work. A snapshot from the family resources survey I referred to earlier showed that 22% of adult informal carers were retired and 25% were economically inactive. I am proud to acknowledge that since then we have hopefully seen some improvement in the ability of carers to balance work and caring, having passed my Carer’s Leave Act in 2023, giving employment rights for the very first time to unpaid carers. However, I know from the work that I have done that that is not enough.

One of the reasons for this debate is because there is a Minister in the Department responsible for unpaid carers. The DWP sees the impact of families living in poverty. The Treasury is in charge of the overall picture, but the Department for Business and Trade has responsibility for employment practices. I want to highlight the need, which the Government previously recognised, for cross-Government working on supporting unpaid carers. The one thing that the DWP is responsible for that could help unpaid carers—I would be grateful if the Minister took this away—is carer’s leave. As the Minister knows, I could give a whole speech on how that benefit needs reforming, which would help rather than hinder unpaid carers, but I accept that is not his remit.

[Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)]

I appreciate the hon. Member bringing this matter to the House. We can see clearly from the cross-party representation in the Chamber that it matters to everybody. Many in those roles are actually young people. Whenever we are talking about employment rights and workers’ rights, it is important that we remember young people, and particularly young carers, who may be care-experienced on top of that. Does she have an opinion on that?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I am grateful to the hon. Member. I will be saying a bit about young carers, but carer’s allowance, which I am talking about at the moment, does need reform. My understanding, from speaking to colleagues, is that young people undertaking T-levels are potentially losing out on carer’s allowance because of the number of hours they are required to do. I am sure that that oversight needs to be corrected.

When unpaid carers are told that they can work only 13 hours a week at the national minimum wage—the number of hours keeps going down because of how the calculations are made—without losing their benefits, when they are left struggling because carer’s allowance provides the lowest level of benefits of its kind, and when systems are set up so that unpaid carers find themselves thousands of pounds in debt from inadvertent overpayments, that inevitably has an impact on their own health and ability to provide care to their loved ones.

The resilience of our ageing population is also very much in the remit of the Department of Health and Social Care. We know that pensioner poverty is deeply linked to health outcomes and the demand for NHS services during the cold winter months. We also know that providing care during someone’s working years means missing out on vital opportunities to save for retirement, leading to a much higher prevalence of poverty among unpaid carers.

I appreciate that the Minister can control pensions, but I want to mention another thing outwith his remit: education. Being a young carer is more uncommon than being an adult carer, but the impact over that person’s whole life is so much greater, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Tom Gordon) said.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one other Department that might be quite interested in a cross-Government strategy is the Treasury? My constituent Amanda had a civil penalty applied on the basis that she misrepresented her earnings, which has made her frightened to go back to work or to work more hours. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is damaging to the economy if we have people not going out to work?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I agree with my hon. Friend. If the Government’s aim is to grow the economy, they must, in addition to other measures, be targeting those people who are economically inactive not because they cannot work as a result of their skills, knowledge or capacity, but because their caring responsibilities prevent them from doing so.

I am conscious of your direction, Madam Deputy Speaker, so if the House allows I intend not to take any further interventions. Otherwise, I will not get through the remarks that I want to make.

I want to mention Fife Young Carers, which supports 207 young people in North East Fife, and about 1,300 overall across Fife. Some of those carers are as young as five years old. Caring for a loved one as a child has a significant impact on their education. In the last Parliament, the all-party parliamentary group on young carers and young adult carers carried out an inquiry that found that young carers are missing on average 27 days of school each year and are 38% less likely to go to university than their peers. We know that how children do in school has a vital long-term impact on their future employment—indeed, the Education Secretary was talking about that the other day—and just about everything in their future. The position of young carers gives us a clear example of how the lack of an overarching strategy fails unpaid carers.

Earlier this year, I wanted to question the then Government over the exclusion of young carers from carer’s allowance, building on a question asked by the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi). The reason that the DWP gave me was that supposedly young carers in education can rely on educational grants for support. I therefore asked the Department for Education about support for young carers. It turns out that there is no specific support for them because they are not considered to be part of a vulnerable group. It means that the DWP can abandon financial support of young carers to the Department for Education, which seems to think that young carers can rely on their parents for income. That shows what happens and how support for arguably an incredibly vulnerable group can get lost without overall leadership.

Yet more Government Departments have a role in the health and wellbeing of unpaid carers. According to Carers UK’s 2023 state of caring report, 50% of unpaid carers are lonely and 58% of carers had to cut down on their hobbies and leisure activities. Caring for a loved one should not mean being isolated from your own support networks or having to give up the things that bring meaning and joy, but clearly it does for many, either because they cannot find the time in the day for themselves between work—if they can stay in it—and caring, or because often they simply cannot afford to participate any more. This is the moment for the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to get involved, with its overarching responsibility for leisure and the services provided at local level. I am talking about respite breaks, which the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, support services, and access to local leisure facilities. A cross-Government strategy could also engage the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Offices, and ensure that similar priorities are discussed in intergovernmental meetings with the devolved nations.

There are many root causes and solutions to the problems faced by unpaid carers, and they span all Government Departments. The Minister is here as the Minister for Care, but I hope that he is also aware of the impact of all the cross-Government issues that I have set out on the health of unpaid carers. I am sure that he has learned much in recent weeks. Last year’s “State of Caring” report on health found that 82% of unpaid carers said that the impact of caring on their physical and mental health would be a challenge. It found a significant impact on mental health, with 79% saying that they were stressed or anxious and 49% saying that they were depressed. It is therefore no surprise that research carried out by Dr O’Dwyer at the University of Birmingham has found that unpaid carers are a group at high risk of suicide. That is particularly true for parent carers of children with a long-term illness or disability. Of the participants in her study, 41% of unpaid carers had thought about killing themselves.

It is clear that we need vital preventive healthcare for unpaid carers, but clearly that is not in the remit just of the Department of Health and Social Care. Again, I reiterate why we need a cross-Government strategy. I appreciate that even if a strategy were announced this evening, it would not just be in place overnight—it could not be and it should not be. Its goals need to be co-designed with unpaid carers and the organisations that represent them. It needs organisation, buy-in and leadership. For it to work and take meaningful action, it ought to be sponsored at the highest level of Government and engage all the Departments that I have mentioned. It needs ringfenced funding. It will not surprise the House that I have mentioned funding. The last strategy was supported by £255 million in funding. That may sound like a big figure when we keep being told that difficult decisions have to be made, but it is nothing compared with the economic value of unpaid care, which, as I have said, amounts to £190 billion per year.

I do not want to pre-empt the goals of the strategy—they need to be designed with unpaid carers themselves—but a first priority should be, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough said, the proper identification of unpaid carers. Unpaid carers may not recognise themselves as such or know what support services are available to them. Professionals and organisations play a vital role in identifying them, through GPs, hospitals, local authorities, workplaces and educational settings. A national carer’s strategy will provide leadership and strategic direction. It will put the needs of unpaid carers at the highest level of Government. Morally, practically and politically, it is the right thing for the Government to do.

I do not particularly like the title of this debate on the Order Paper. The word “potential” was inserted to keep me in line with the rules on neutrality in debate titles. It makes it sounds like the merits of the strategy are arguable, which clearly they are not. I chose to read “potential” in a different way: a national carer’s strategy has an abundance of potential to create improvements that have not yet been realised. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s remarks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I would be delighted to do that. As my hon. Friend knows, we visited Specsavers during the election campaign. There are lots of high street opticians, and they can make a real difference to cutting the backlog. The Conservatives should have gone to Specsavers, and this Government will.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

My constituents have struggled to get pre-diagnosis ADHD and autism support for their young daughters. We cannot diagnose children at a very young age, but that does not mean that families do not need help. Can the Minister confirm what engagement he will have with support organisations such as the National Autistic Society to ensure that best practice means that families are not struggling for support?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I welcome the hon. Lady to her place. She raises a vital issue. We have a plan for improving mental health services, including 8,500 more mental health workers. Autism is, of course, a vital part of that, and I will be more than happy to meet her to discuss further how we might be able to take it forward.

Oral Answers to Questions

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Maria Caulfield]

I know the hon. Gentleman had a personal loss to covid, and he is absolutely right to highlight those lessons learned. We are learning lessons, but each pandemic or increase in infection is different. It may have been appropriate to have lockdowns for covid-19, but lockdowns may not be appropriate for other infections, such as strep A or other respiratory illnesses. We set up the UKHSA to provide expert advice. We are learning lessons from the covid inquiry, and we are already taking action.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

3. What progress her Department has made on discharging patients from hospitals and moving them into social care.

[The Minister for Social Care (Helen Whately)]

When someone no longer needs to be in hospital, it is better for them and better for the NHS for them to go home. That is why we have been working hard to reduce delayed discharges, and we have been making good progress. In England, delayed discharges are down 13% since January, meaning thousands fewer people waiting in hospital and freeing up nearly 2,000 hospital beds every day.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

In my constituency of North East Fife, an average of 14% of social care and social work roles are filled when first advertised, but yesterday the Home Secretary announced plans to make it harder to recruit care workers from overseas. What assessment has the Minister made of the effect of that announcement on hospitals’ ability to discharge patients and free up hospital beds for those who need them?

[Helen Whately]

The hon. Member refers to yesterday’s announcement on migration. First, I am very grateful to all the international workers who come here to help in our health and social care system and to care for our loved ones. Clearly, we must get the balance right between migration and making sure that our health and care system has the workforce that it needs. That is what we are doing, both with the migration changes announced yesterday and with our reforms to the social care workforce to ensure that working in social care is appealing to home-grown talent.

Building an NHS Fit for the Future

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

It is of course an absolute pleasure to follow the maiden speech of the hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Steve Tuckwell). He made a very compelling maiden speech, although maybe not quite as compelling for me as a nationalist following him.

It is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of my party in a debate centred on our NHS. Few know more about the NHS than the man who contributed to its present-day financial struggles, the new Foreign Secretary, who obviously is not here because he is not elected to this place. It is incredibly unfortunate that this big set-piece event in the parliamentary calendar did nothing to address the increased privatisation in NHS England. Perhaps that is something we can look forward to being addressed in the autumn statement, but for now I will summarise the issue that was overlooked in the King’s Speech.

Privatisation is creeping in through the back door in NHS England, and while health is devolved and we have our own NHS in Scotland, this has dire consequences for our NHS in Scotland through Barnett consequentials. The reality is that money spent by the British Government on England’s NHS dictates how much the Scottish Government have to spend on our NHS up the road. Despite cuts to Barnett consequentials for our NHS in Scotland, the Scottish Government are continuing to invest in new and innovative ways to reduce health inequalities and to protect our NHS for future generations.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

My colleague in the Scottish Parliament, the MSP for North East Fife, Willie Rennie, has raised the issue of a £10.9 million funding shortfall in NHS Fife, and that is before we see the winter surge. Does the hon. Member agree that, although we might see higher spending in Scotland, there are failures in how the SNP is delivering for our health services there?

[Amy Callaghan]

I thank the hon. Member for her contribution, but I would say that there are definitely structural funding issues because of being tied to this financial Union, which is the point I was just about to make. I hope she recognises that, and will maybe reflect on the fact that being part of this Union does have dire consequences.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I know that we say “the Government of the day”, but this Government seem to be taking that term to new heights.

The NHS is top of what I hear about on the doorsteps. People talk about how long it will take to see a GP, whether their children will get support with complex and little-understood conditions such as paediatric acute-onset neuropsychiatric syndrome and paediatric auto-immune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infections, whether specialists are available for support when things go wrong, and how they access mental health needs.

I understand that day-to-day decisions by NHS Scotland are not made here, as NHS Scotland’s running is within the devolved competence of the Scottish Parliament, but, from listening to the hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar), we would think that everything was great in Scotland. It is right that our spending on the NHS is higher per capita, but that has nothing to do with the generosity of the Scottish Government. We get more money per head to reflect the high cost of delivering services over large rural areas in Scotland—it is simply more expensive to deliver our services. When I look at the GP services in North East Fife, I see them crumbling under the SNP.

[Amy Callaghan]

Does the hon. Member recognise that the lack of capital spending by the British Government in NHS England and its Barnett consequentials mean that the Scottish Government get less money to spend on NHS Scotland, so we are suffering as a result of being tied to this Union?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

Part of that comes from the fiscal framework that the Scottish Government have signed up to. The Barnett consequentials have always recognised that services in Scotland are more difficult to deliver because of our geographical size. In North East Fife our NHS board’s finances are stretched beyond the limit, as I raised earlier. Also, we no longer have any specialist A&E support, because no one in Scotland does.

Health services include caring services. My priority for North East Fife is for anyone who needs support to live independently to get it. No one should be left taking up a hospital bed or be on a waiting list because of a lack of carers. A lack of carers has not been addressed by either Government, which is why it is my party’s policy to introduce an elevated statutory minimum wage for social care workers, which will instantly help recruitment and place value in that vital profession.

I regret that, once again, the UK Government have failed to support the estimated 10.6 million unpaid carers across the UK. Whether they are helping with washing or arranging appointments, our unpaid carers sacrifice their time and, too often, their own health and wellbeing as they care for their loved ones and others. Carers UK research has found that almost a third of all unpaid carers—3.6 million—are struggling to make ends meet, while 75% of those receiving carer’s allowance are struggling to cope with the cost of living crisis. They are worrying about money, how they will care for their loved ones, how to stay in work, and whether their work will result in losing their carer’s allowance. There is so much worry, it is no surprise that Carers UK has found that almost four fifths of carers feel stressed or anxious, and 65% agreed that the cost of living was having a negative impact on their mental or physical health.

We can and must do more to help. I was proud this year to see the passing of the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. Once it is fully enacted, carers will have, for the first time, the right to take leave from work for their caring responsibilities. However, we are not quite over the line yet, so I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm whether the Government programme will include time for the regulations under the Carer’s Leave Act, and set out when we can expect those to be laid.

Going forward, I want that leave to be paid. Carer’s allowance must be reformed to enable people to enter and stay in work, and to lift those who cannot away from poverty. At the moment, carer’s allowance is a disincentive to entering work. Given that it is supposed to be a priority for the Government to get people back into work, I hope that there might be some change in the autumn statement next week.

North East Fife is a wonderful place, often ranking highly for its hospitality and stunning scenery. Of course, it is the home of golf. I could not miss an opportunity to applaud St Andrews university, currently ranked the best university in the UK. It is no wonder that we are a top destination internationally. You would be welcome to visit any time, Mr Deputy Speaker. However, I must highlight the damage that has been done by the UK Government’s policies. The success of St Andrews university is down not just to student experience and outcomes but to its incredible research. However, the continual delays in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office’s processing of academic technology approval scheme applications disincentivises the brightest minds from coming to our shores. The delays in gaining associate membership of Horizon have led to funding losses and frequent complaints that UK researchers were left out multinational proposals. Meanwhile, there have been cuts to official development assistance budgets, which help to fund vital research on how to tackle the greatest issues facing the world. I am looking forward to hearing from the new Foreign Secretary on that very issue, given his previous opposition to the cut in ODA funding.

Thinking about your visit, Mr Deputy Speaker, it would be a sad trip if the hostelries in North East Fife were shut or you had nowhere to stay due to persistent post-Brexit labour shortages. I would want to show you our brilliant distilleries—Lindores Abbey, Kingsbarns, Eden Mill and Daftmill—but, again, the Government seem to be intent on making it harder for such businesses. Their refusal this spring to include distilleries as high intensity energy users for support with their bills, while simultaneously hiking tax by 10.1%, was a betrayal of the Scotch whisky industry. That means that a responsible drinker of whisky will pay an extra £200 of tax per year compared with others such as cider drinkers. I urge the Government to stop their unfair treatment and the Chancellor to freeze duty on spirits in his statement next week. The Government said that they would do that, so it will be great if some of those long-term decisions for a brighter future were committed and kept to.

I wonder if the Chancellor will pick up the slack from the total failure to mention vital local services such as banking hubs and post offices in the King’s Speech. We have had seven post office closures in North East Fife alone. Post offices used be the heart of a community, where people could do basic banking, buy their stamps and apply for passports. Those needs have not gone away, particularly in rural constituencies, and neither has the need for physical banking. In Cupar, in the centre of my constituency, the last physical bank standing is Nationwide. It is great to still have a building society presence, but what about all those other customers in other banks and in the villages outside Cupar, too? I very much hope we will see from the Financial Conduct Authority a proper way to assess how a community will benefit from a bank hub that goes simply beyond the last bank in town being lost.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like briefly to take you back to the joy of a visit to North East Fife. The East Neuk coast is stunning and an inspiring sight for tourist and local alike, and, in summer, a favourite for swimming. That leads me to the failure to regulate water companies and the challenge in Scotland of the ongoing discharge of sewage into our sea. This is as much of an issue in Scotland as it is in other parts of the UK. Monitoring over the summer found that Lower Largo’s beach was at least 50 times above the recommended contamination limit at least three times, its filthiness a stain on any claim by decision makers to protect our environment. The challenge —this comes from a Liberal Democrat investigation earlier this year—is that only 4% of 3,500 outflows in Scotland are currently monitored, and the 1,000 additional monitors they want to put in will not be available until the end of 2024 at the earliest. That is also true in other places, such as Eastbourne, where Southern Water has lots to answer for.

To conclude on the point made by the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), yes a reshuffle slows things down. How much of the King’s Speech will we actually get through before a general election?

Seaton Community Hospital

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Richard Foord]

The hon. Member makes an excellent point. It is exactly right that Seaton Community Hospital was built by local people. Let me expand on that important point, because a lot of people have talked to me about this and I want to relay to the House the feelings they have spoken to me about at recent local community meetings.

The hospital was built over two storeys and updated in 1990 with an acute wing, which was funded not just 50% by the local community but 100% by local donations. The important thing to note is that the construction would not have been possible at all were it not for the contributions by local individuals. For example, the Seaton & District Hospital League of Friends had a scheme called “Be a brick: donate to Seaton Hospital”. People could make a small contribution—whatever they could afford—and get a little brick as a memento to demonstrate that they had contributed to Seaton Community Hospital. The charity is still a vocal champion of the hospital to this day. The project would not have happened had it not been for the generosity of the local people. What comes with that is a sense of ownership that I cannot really stress enough. There is a really strong feeling that the hospital does not belong to some amorphous NHS: it is their hospital. They paid for it, they were treated in it and it belongs to them.

Several weeks ago, I was contacted by the League of Friends charity after it learned from the Devon NHS that the plan is to hand over the two-storey wing from the Devon NHS to NHS Property Services. The charity was concerned that this could lead, eventually, to the selling off of the hospital wing, and even to its demolition. As soon as I heard that, alarm bells were set ringing for me. It is clear that Devon’s integrated care board is keen to wash its hands of the facility as quickly as it can. In essence, the facility is in special measures, and in a financially dire place. The wing is costing the Devon NHS about £300,000 a year, billed by NHS Property Services.

I was not all that familiar with NHS Property Services a year ago. I had heard of it, but I was under the impression that it was just another division of the NHS. I looked into it a bit further, and I found that it is responsible for the maintenance and support of most local NHS facilities. I was surprised to find that it is a Government-owned company, legally owned by one shareholder. The single shareholder for NHS Property Services is the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. As of today, the hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle can congratulate herself on taking on NHS Property Services as her new holding. How can it be the case that a hospital built with the generous support of local people is now owned directly by NHS Property Services, rather than those local people?

In 2016, the Government transferred that facility over to NHS Property Services and implemented a consolidated charging policy to levy charges for rent, maintenance and service charges. Some of those charges are extortionate. We are talking about £300,000 a year, which is £247 a square metre. On paper, it might seem prudent to organise the NHS with some commercial expertise in charge of some of these facilities. However, we have to bear it in mind that the people running NHS Property Services are not necessarily thinking about it through the lens of health and social care; they are thinking about how they can maximise the utility of space and make savings to put money back into budgets.

That is worrying, because what I am hearing is that the offer being made to NHS Devon is, “If you wash your hands of this facility, you will receive 50% of the proceeds of the sale”—that will be to the NHS Devon integrated care board—“and 50% of the proceeds will go back into central coffers, back to Whitehall and back into the very large pot that is the NHS.” The House can imagine what that is like for an individual constituent in my part of east Devon, who has contributed perhaps tens or hundreds of pounds—as much as they could afford—in decades gone by, perhaps through a direct debit or regular payment, to maintain the facility. To hear that those decades of investment will be put back into a big pool in London, a long way away, is pretty sickening.

There has been an understandable backlash from people right across my corner of Devon. I have been to a couple of public meetings in recent weeks since the news broke. At Colyford Memorial Hall a couple of weeks ago, there were more than 200 people. It is a cliché to say there was standing room only, but there was no standing room—there was a long queue of people outside in the rain wanting to get into the meeting. People had one overriding feeling that they wanted to convey to me, and that they wanted me to convey to the Minister and to others gathered here this evening: they created this hospital and they are deeply offended by the idea that it might be taken away. What put salt into those wounds was the idea that that should happen with zero public consultation.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

My hon. Friend is making a passionate speech on behalf of his community. What strikes me is that when the community came forward and made those contributions or bought those bricks, they did not do so to save the hospital at that point. I am pretty sure, like the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), that they made that contribution to maintain the hospital for future generations. I am not surprised that it feels like a betrayal to my hon. Friend’s constituents.

[Richard Foord]

I very much thank my hon. Friend for her contribution. She is exactly right. I point to two specific conversations I have had with constituents recently. The first was with someone who lives in Seaton, who was close enough to the hospital that she could walk there. Her husband died in the hospital and she was able to go and see him in his final days. She welled up—more than that, tears rolled down her cheeks—as she told me about her husband, who she was able to see in his final days.

Now we have moved to a situation in which patients are cared for at home. Of course, that means that some of the staff previously based out of the community hospital are driving to people’s driveways and providing that care in their homes. That works for some individuals, but the other day I had a lady in my surgery who was almost shaking with nervousness because her husband, whom she loved dearly, had just been discharged from the acute hospital in Exeter and she was charged with looking after him but did not feel able to look after his needs, as he was overcoming his operation towards the end of his life. We are putting some of our constituents in a really difficult situation that they do not feel equipped for.

The reason for the beds being removed from the hospital in 2017 related to so-called workforce issues. There was a substantial consultation of local people in 2017 when beds were removed from local hospitals, but I fear that following that consultation, which showed the outrage and indignation of local people, the NHS does not want to get involved such a consultation exercise again, hence the desire for the ICB to get shot of the building as soon as possible.

The ICB was talking about getting shot of it by the end of this calendar year, although that has gone to Devon County Council’s health scrutiny committee, so it may be pushed into next year. What we need tonight is an intervention from the Minister in relation to NHS Property Services, which is charging a clinical rate for a space that has not been used for acute medicine—it has not had clinical beds in it—since 2017. Organisations are coming forward with a desire to use it not for clinical use but as a care hub to provide other services.

I want to make hon. Members aware of how those clinical beds got removed in the first place. In 2017, there was deep concern that the removal of the beds was an arbitrary decision made following a last-minute intervention by the then right hon. Member for East Devon, Hugo, now Lord Swire. In fact, it is revealed in a book by his wife, Sasha, that Seaton Hospital was to be kept open, with its beds maintained, but, because of that last-minute intervention by Hugo Swire, the bed closures moved to Seaton and the Sidmouth Hospital beds remained.

As a result of that decision, there was no additional funding to set up extra services at Seaton. Instead, the ICB began charging this exceedingly high rent for an empty space. What we really need to do is reduce that rental fee from its clinical rate to one that acknowledges that there are community alternatives. The palliative care nursing team can operate out of this space, and organisations such as Restore and hospice at home carers can work out of it, too. The friends of Seaton and District Hospital are coming up with a strong business plan, but they do need more time to develop it and a concessionary rate—not the clinical rate—to operate from it. If no solution is found, the ward is most likely to be either sold off or demolished. Again—I cannot stress this enough—we need to do this for the people who feel that they paid for the hospital.

There is a precedent for it, and I am grateful to the hon. Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) for letting me know that the hospital in Cornwall was saved from the jaws of NHS Property Services. However, there is a big difference between what I am proposing for Seaton and what happened at St Ives. St Ives hospital was paid for by a single philanthropist. As we have heard, Seaton Hospital was paid for with contributions—or subscriptions —from thousands of people.