(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is great to be back, and to see you in the Chair. I congratulate you on your new position.
Caring or being cared for is an almost universal experience. Almost everybody will find themselves being an unpaid carer for their loved ones at some point in their life, or being cared for by loved ones. Who among us does not know somebody who is helping an elderly parent, or supporting a family member with a long-term illness? As new MPs will come to learn, almost every week here, we have an opportunity to learn about and mark a national awareness day for a different devastating illness. For every person suffering from those illnesses, there will inevitably be a family member—unseen—supporting and caring for them.
According to the recent census, there are 5.7 million unpaid carers in England and Wales, but those are just the people who recognise themselves as such. In 2022, Carers UK research estimated that there were up to 10.6 million unpaid carers. Whichever figure we use, that is a huge number, and the figure is growing. According to very recent research published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, by 2035 there will be an 11% increase in the number of unpaid carers, and as degenerative conditions, including chronic degenerative conditions, become more prevalent, the amount of care that carers do is predicted to go up; it is expected that ever more will provide more than 35 hours of care each week.
The Government should care about carers, not just because that is the right thing to do, and not even because unpaid carers are in homes across every constituency in the UK, but because we need them. Unpaid carers are absolutely vital to our economy and our society.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I commend the hon. Lady for bringing this debate forward. The House is fuller than usual for this Adjournment debate, which indicates the importance of the issue. Every one of us knows people who are carers. I care for my brother, who had a big accident 20 years ago, and I understand what it means to be a carer and to be available at all times, as others do. Does the hon. Lady agree that respite for carers is an essential component of support, and that inability to access respite care will push many into making the unwanted decision to give up caring and instead institutionalise the people they care for, due to the unbearable pressure on their mental health?
Wendy Chamberlain
I am grateful to the hon. Member for that intervention. He is absolutely right, and as he and I know, having served in the last Parliament, during covid the lack of respite care was a critical factor for many carers. It is clear that we all need to do more in that area.
We were talking about how vital carers are to our economy and society. The economic value of unpaid care is £162 billion a year in England and Wales, £13.1 billion in Scotland and £5.8 billion in Northern Ireland. We know the country’s finances have been left in a ruinous state by the last Government, and that the social care system is already stretched to breaking point. We must also know that we cannot take the contribution of unpaid carers for granted, so I hope that the Minister will take tonight as an opportunity to show that the Government do care about unpaid carers.
In a debate shortly before the general election was called, the then shadow Minister for care, who is now a Minister, the hon. Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), committed Labour to developing a new carers strategy if it formed the next Government:
“There will be a carers strategy under the next Labour Government, because we value the vital work our carers do. It will be a cross-Government strategy with the Department for Work and Pensions, Department for Education and the future of work review all feeding into it along with the Department of Health and Social Care. There is a brighter future for those living with dementia and their families and carers. Labour will deliver it.”
Given that promise, I hope that the Minister can understand why I and many whom I have spoken to in the care third sector were disappointed that unpaid carers were not mentioned at all in the Labour manifesto. At the same point in the speech I just referred to, the then shadow Minister said that unpaid carers
“will be at the heart of Labour’s plans in Government.” —[Official Report, 16 May 2024; Vol. 750, c. 228WH.]
I hope the Minister will take tonight’s debate as an opportunity to make that case.
Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)
I thank my hon. Friend for bringing forward this Adjournment debate, and of course for the work she did before this parliamentary Session on what is now the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. One of the reasons why I became involved in politics is that the day before I started my master’s degree, my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer. I studied my degree part-time over two years to look after her and my little sister, who was just five. Looking back, it is clear that I was filling the role of a carer, but I did not identify as one. That is a key point to note if we are to have a carers strategy. A recent Carers Trust survey found that 73% of those who provide or have provided unpaid care do not identify as unpaid carers. Does my hon. Friend agree that a national carers strategy should prioritise the identification of carers across all sectors?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Ghani)
Order. This is an Adjournment debate and interventions must be super-short.
Wendy Chamberlain
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It demonstrates how prevalent caring is in our society when we have Members who have direct experience of it. Identification of carers, or people identifying themselves as carers, is a key issue that any strategy should address.
The then shadow Minister was right that we need a cross-Government strategy. This is not a new idea, because we have had such strategies before; the last one was drawn up all the way back in 2008, but the problems that unpaid carers face have not gone away. Unpaid carers are significantly more likely to be in poverty than the rest of the population. The most recent data available from the Department for Work and Pensions—the 2023 family resources survey—shows that just under a third of households in receipt of carer’s allowance are food insecure, compared with 10% of households as a whole. That is a huge difference.
To assess food insecurity, the survey asks the respondent whether in the past 30 days: they have has eaten less than they felt they should because of lack of funds; they have been hungry, but not eaten due to lack of funds; or they have lost weight due to not enough money for food. It also asks whether they or someone in their household has gone without eating for an entire day because they lack money for food. Further, the survey found that 13.3% of households in receipt of carer’s allowance—that is just more than one in every eight—had used a food bank in the previous 12 months, compared with just 3% of households overall.
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
I commend the hon. Lady for her work to ensure that the millions of unpaid carers in the UK are both valued and supported. As has already been mentioned, I commend her for successfully bringing forward her private Member’s Bill, the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. Under that Act, carers have an entitlement to a week of unpaid leave. Does she agree that further action is needed to ensure that those carers juggling work and care can continue to stay in employment, avoiding the poverty trap that she describes?
Wendy Chamberlain
I absolutely agree with the hon. Member. My party’s policy is that carer’s leave should be paid. At the moment, we are formalising a system that already worked for people in asking for time off unpaid with the employer’s agreement, and potentially not taking sickness or annual leave. They are not getting remunerated for taking that leave, and I am cognisant of that.
Going back to my evidence on food banks, the research from the sector aligns with that survey data. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s 2024 report on UK poverty found that 29% of carers live in poverty. More than half of the carers who responded to the Carers Trust adult carer survey in 2022 said that they are struggling to make ends meet as a result of those caring responsibilities. As the hon. Member just said, one of the main reasons for unpaid carers being in poverty is that it is difficult to stay in work as a carer, especially full-time work.
Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)
I commend the hon. Member for securing this excellent debate. Across the United Kingdom, some 60% of carers are women, with many having to give up employment, reduce their hours or take a less qualified job. Does she agree that needs to be a top priority when the Government are looking at this issue?
Wendy Chamberlain
Yes, I absolutely agree. When we think about pension inequality, we know that women are more likely to be caring and so are unlikely to be able to build up a full pension entitlement, which compounds the poverty that the hon. Member describes.
A 2019 Carers UK report on the difficulties of juggling unpaid care with employment found that around 600 people a day are giving up work. A snapshot from the family resources survey I referred to earlier showed that 22% of adult informal carers were retired and 25% were economically inactive. I am proud to acknowledge that since then we have hopefully seen some improvement in the ability of carers to balance work and caring, having passed my Carer’s Leave Act in 2023, giving employment rights for the very first time to unpaid carers. However, I know from the work that I have done that that is not enough.
One of the reasons for this debate is because there is a Minister in the Department responsible for unpaid carers. The DWP sees the impact of families living in poverty. The Treasury is in charge of the overall picture, but the Department for Business and Trade has responsibility for employment practices. I want to highlight the need, which the Government previously recognised, for cross-Government working on supporting unpaid carers. The one thing that the DWP is responsible for that could help unpaid carers—I would be grateful if the Minister took this away—is carer’s leave. As the Minister knows, I could give a whole speech on how that benefit needs reforming, which would help rather than hinder unpaid carers, but I accept that is not his remit.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
I appreciate the hon. Member bringing this matter to the House. We can see clearly from the cross-party representation in the Chamber that it matters to everybody. Many in those roles are actually young people. Whenever we are talking about employment rights and workers’ rights, it is important that we remember young people, and particularly young carers, who may be care-experienced on top of that. Does she have an opinion on that?
Wendy Chamberlain
I am grateful to the hon. Member. I will be saying a bit about young carers, but carer’s allowance, which I am talking about at the moment, does need reform. My understanding, from speaking to colleagues, is that young people undertaking T-levels are potentially losing out on carer’s allowance because of the number of hours they are required to do. I am sure that that oversight needs to be corrected.
When unpaid carers are told that they can work only 13 hours a week at the national minimum wage—the number of hours keeps going down because of how the calculations are made—without losing their benefits, when they are left struggling because carer’s allowance provides the lowest level of benefits of its kind, and when systems are set up so that unpaid carers find themselves thousands of pounds in debt from inadvertent overpayments, that inevitably has an impact on their own health and ability to provide care to their loved ones.
The resilience of our ageing population is also very much in the remit of the Department of Health and Social Care. We know that pensioner poverty is deeply linked to health outcomes and the demand for NHS services during the cold winter months. We also know that providing care during someone’s working years means missing out on vital opportunities to save for retirement, leading to a much higher prevalence of poverty among unpaid carers.
I appreciate that the Minister can control pensions, but I want to mention another thing outwith his remit: education. Being a young carer is more uncommon than being an adult carer, but the impact over that person’s whole life is so much greater, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Tom Gordon) said.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
Does my hon. Friend agree that one other Department that might be quite interested in a cross-Government strategy is the Treasury? My constituent Amanda had a civil penalty applied on the basis that she misrepresented her earnings, which has made her frightened to go back to work or to work more hours. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is damaging to the economy if we have people not going out to work?
Wendy Chamberlain
I agree with my hon. Friend. If the Government’s aim is to grow the economy, they must, in addition to other measures, be targeting those people who are economically inactive not because they cannot work as a result of their skills, knowledge or capacity, but because their caring responsibilities prevent them from doing so.
I am conscious of your direction, Madam Deputy Speaker, so if the House allows I intend not to take any further interventions. Otherwise, I will not get through the remarks that I want to make.
I want to mention Fife Young Carers, which supports 207 young people in North East Fife, and about 1,300 overall across Fife. Some of those carers are as young as five years old. Caring for a loved one as a child has a significant impact on their education. In the last Parliament, the all-party parliamentary group on young carers and young adult carers carried out an inquiry that found that young carers are missing on average 27 days of school each year and are 38% less likely to go to university than their peers. We know that how children do in school has a vital long-term impact on their future employment—indeed, the Education Secretary was talking about that the other day—and just about everything in their future. The position of young carers gives us a clear example of how the lack of an overarching strategy fails unpaid carers.
Earlier this year, I wanted to question the then Government over the exclusion of young carers from carer’s allowance, building on a question asked by the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi). The reason that the DWP gave me was that supposedly young carers in education can rely on educational grants for support. I therefore asked the Department for Education about support for young carers. It turns out that there is no specific support for them because they are not considered to be part of a vulnerable group. It means that the DWP can abandon financial support of young carers to the Department for Education, which seems to think that young carers can rely on their parents for income. That shows what happens and how support for arguably an incredibly vulnerable group can get lost without overall leadership.
Yet more Government Departments have a role in the health and wellbeing of unpaid carers. According to Carers UK’s 2023 state of caring report, 50% of unpaid carers are lonely and 58% of carers had to cut down on their hobbies and leisure activities. Caring for a loved one should not mean being isolated from your own support networks or having to give up the things that bring meaning and joy, but clearly it does for many, either because they cannot find the time in the day for themselves between work—if they can stay in it—and caring, or because often they simply cannot afford to participate any more. This is the moment for the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to get involved, with its overarching responsibility for leisure and the services provided at local level. I am talking about respite breaks, which the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, support services, and access to local leisure facilities. A cross-Government strategy could also engage the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Offices, and ensure that similar priorities are discussed in intergovernmental meetings with the devolved nations.
There are many root causes and solutions to the problems faced by unpaid carers, and they span all Government Departments. The Minister is here as the Minister for Care, but I hope that he is also aware of the impact of all the cross-Government issues that I have set out on the health of unpaid carers. I am sure that he has learned much in recent weeks. Last year’s “State of Caring” report on health found that 82% of unpaid carers said that the impact of caring on their physical and mental health would be a challenge. It found a significant impact on mental health, with 79% saying that they were stressed or anxious and 49% saying that they were depressed. It is therefore no surprise that research carried out by Dr O’Dwyer at the University of Birmingham has found that unpaid carers are a group at high risk of suicide. That is particularly true for parent carers of children with a long-term illness or disability. Of the participants in her study, 41% of unpaid carers had thought about killing themselves.
It is clear that we need vital preventive healthcare for unpaid carers, but clearly that is not in the remit just of the Department of Health and Social Care. Again, I reiterate why we need a cross-Government strategy. I appreciate that even if a strategy were announced this evening, it would not just be in place overnight—it could not be and it should not be. Its goals need to be co-designed with unpaid carers and the organisations that represent them. It needs organisation, buy-in and leadership. For it to work and take meaningful action, it ought to be sponsored at the highest level of Government and engage all the Departments that I have mentioned. It needs ringfenced funding. It will not surprise the House that I have mentioned funding. The last strategy was supported by £255 million in funding. That may sound like a big figure when we keep being told that difficult decisions have to be made, but it is nothing compared with the economic value of unpaid care, which, as I have said, amounts to £190 billion per year.
I do not want to pre-empt the goals of the strategy—they need to be designed with unpaid carers themselves—but a first priority should be, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough said, the proper identification of unpaid carers. Unpaid carers may not recognise themselves as such or know what support services are available to them. Professionals and organisations play a vital role in identifying them, through GPs, hospitals, local authorities, workplaces and educational settings. A national carer’s strategy will provide leadership and strategic direction. It will put the needs of unpaid carers at the highest level of Government. Morally, practically and politically, it is the right thing for the Government to do.
I do not particularly like the title of this debate on the Order Paper. The word “potential” was inserted to keep me in line with the rules on neutrality in debate titles. It makes it sounds like the merits of the strategy are arguable, which clearly they are not. I chose to read “potential” in a different way: a national carer’s strategy has an abundance of potential to create improvements that have not yet been realised. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s remarks.
The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)
I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) for securing this debate on this critical issue. As she rightly stated, it touches the lives of millions of people across our country, and I agree that it requires our full attention.
I want to start by paying tribute to our unpaid carers and young carers, who play such an important role in our communities. They give so much to others, and I want to take a moment to thank them for the enormous contribution that they make. Let us also recognise and appreciate the work that the hon. Member has accomplished in bringing about the Carer’s Leave Act last year. It is an important piece of legislation, which takes a significant step towards helping unpaid carers juggle work and their caring responsibilities. As she will be aware, this Government are committed to reviewing the implementation of carer’s leave and to examining all the benefits of introducing paid carer’s leave.
This Government are also committed to ensuring that families have the support that they need. We want to ensure that families are better able to look after their own health and wellbeing, not just that of those they care for. We are aware of the importance of unpaid carers having a break from caring. The better care fund includes funding that can be used for unpaid carer’s support, including short breaks and respite services for carers.
I have heard the calls for a cross-Government carer’s strategy. This must be addressed in the wider context of the urgent need for a renewed vision for adult social care. As part of that renewed vision we will consider how best to support unpaid carers, because the reality is that our adult social care system is facing immense challenges. Too many people, including unpaid carers, are left navigating a complex and often inadequate system to secure the support they need. Reports of inconsistent service standards, chronic staff shortages and a lack of dignity in care must drive us to action. Everyone deserves the chance to live independently and with dignity. Our approach is to create a sustainable health and care system built on national standards, but tailored to local needs.
However, we must be clear about the appalling economic circumstances we have inherited. We take very seriously our responsibility to deal with the £22 billion black hole that has been left to us by the previous Administration. As a result we have had to make, and will continue to have to make, some difficult decisions, but that in no way diminishes our commitment to reforming adult social care. It will not be easy, but we are committed to taking the steps needed to build a national care service.
I also recognise that many unpaid carers can face challenges balancing employment with caring. The Government’s plan to make work pay sets out a significant and ambitious agenda to ensure workplace rights are fit for a modern economy. That includes empowering working people who provide unpaid care. Flexible working can play a vital role in enabling carers to stay in work alongside those they support. Making flexible working pay, the default from day one for all workers except where it is not reasonably feasible, is a key element of our plan to make work pay.
We must also ensure that carers are supported by the benefits system. We know there has been an increase carer’s allowance overpayments. We are keen to establish all the facts to understand fully what has gone wrong. Once we have done that, we will set out a plan to make it right. The Department for Work and Pensions is progressing an enhanced notification strategy as part of its existing commitment to improve customer engagement and make better use of data provided by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, building on its existing communications with customers. It is considering all forms of targeted contact to find the most effective and efficient solution to encourage claimants to contact the DWP about changes in their income. This will help claimants understand when they may have received an earnings-related overpayment or are at risk of doing so. Indeed, the Minister for Social Security and Disability, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) recently met Carers UK and individual carers to hear their views and experiences. That is key to helping us to establish the facts and make more informed decisions. More broadly, the DWP will keep the carer’s allowance under review to see whether it is continuing to meet its objectives. The previous Work and Pensions Committee made a number of recommendations for changing the rules. We will respond to those recommendations in due course.
Our goal must be centred on reform. We are committed to building consensus for the longer-term reforms that are needed to create a sustainable national care service that our entire country can be proud of.
Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)
Does the Minister agree that informal networks, such as the City of London Carers, provide a vital way for unpaid carers to keep in touch with each other and understand what services might be available through the adult social care system?
Stephen Kinnock
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. She is absolutely right that many such networks, often informal, play a vital role in the community in providing that support and peer-to-peer support. So often unpaid carers can end up feeling quite isolated. Informal networks like the one she describes are vital and I commend the work of that network in achieving the objectives we all want to see.
Jim Shannon
The Minister outlines the need for reform. I think many of us in the Chamber would like compassion and understanding to be key to that. Reforms are okay, but they need compassion and understanding to make them work.
Stephen Kinnock
I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. He has reminded the House that caring for friends and family is an important part of what it means to be human. It is at the heart of the desire to support one’s community, as well as one’s friends and family.
We must always approach this issue with compassion. We know that we have certain constraints as a Government in terms of what we are able to do, but I can assure the hon. Member that we are absolutely committed to fixing what is, broadly speaking, a broken system; indeed, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has described the health and social care system as broken. We have to fix the foundations of that system, and unpaid carers are absolutely part of those foundations. We also have to ensure that unpaid carers have a strong voice in the consensus that we want to build around fixing the system. We know that if we are to build a national care service of which our entire country can be proud, we will need those reforms, but they must truly embody person-centred care and the role played by unpaid carers. To achieve that, I will engage with my counterparts across Government, with unpaid carers and with sector partners such as Carers UK and Carers Trust to ensure that their voices are heard.
I know that many of us were profoundly moved by the experiences of caring shared by the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) during the general election campaign. As we have heard this evening, this is a subject of great significance for, and close to the heart of, Members on both sides of the House—including, of course, the hon. Member for North East Fife. I look forward to engaging with colleagues throughout the House on a cross-party basis, because we know that the consensus we need to build transcends narrow party political partisan divides. This is about building a system that is truly fit for the future, and fit for the country in which we live. So let us forge ahead together with the promise of that future in which unpaid carers are visible, valued and supported.
Question put and agreed to.