Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 8th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

8. What recent assessment she has made of trends in the number of Army personnel.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

13. What recent assessment she has made of trends in the number of armed forces personnel.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

16. What recent assessment she has made of trends in the number of armed forces personnel.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Lancaster]

Let us just see whether we can debunk this myth that Army numbers are somehow in freefall. On 1 May, the total size of the British Army, including the Brigade of Gurkhas, both trained and untrained, was 85,430. As of 1 June, one month later, according to the most recent figures that we have, the total size of the British Army, including the Brigade of Gurkhas, both trained and untrained, was 85,730. That is an increase of 300.

[Susan Elan Jones]

In 2010, there were 30,000 more fully trained armed forces personnel than there are today. Does that concern the Minister and does it concern the Government, and if it does not, why not?

[Mark Lancaster]

As we enter the 21st century, we must accept that the armed forces are about more than simply mass. That is precisely why we are investing in technology, and it is why the battlefield of the 21st century will be a very different beast from that of the 20th. I am concerned about the drop below that figure that we have seen in recent years, but, as I have just demonstrated, we are turning the supertanker around. The size of the trained strength of the British Army can only be increased if it has untrained recruits. As I have demonstrated, we are now seeing an increase in the number of people joining the Army, and that is a positive development.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 18th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

Like so many nations, such as the United States, Australia, France, New Zealand and Canada, we believe in the rule of law and the international rules-based system. We will always be a nation that does not just talk, but one that acts to uphold the rule of law that has benefited so many nations right around the globe, so yes.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

T4. I associate myself with the tributes to Paul Flynn. He was a great Welsh patriot, devolutionist and campaigner, and we will miss him.According to a report by the National Audit Office, the RAF estimates that, at the current rate, it will be another 20 years before it has enough pilots. What urgent steps is the Minister going to take to rectify this?

[Mark Lancaster]

The pilot training programme has remained unchanged for many years. That is why we are looking at a complete review of the system, which will speed up the process and should rectify the current shortfall in pilots.

Defence

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 11th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) and to take part in this debate. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) for his outstanding, wide-ranging introductory speech, which set the tone for the debate—or at least most of it—that we have had so far. The comment that struck me most was by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon), who spoke of the armed forces as being fundamentally about skilled individuals. I think the phrase she used was, “the people with the expertise”.

In seven years in this place, I am not surprised, given the history of north-east Wales, by the number of current members of the armed forces whom I have met, but I am surprised by the number of former members of the armed forces whom I have met. Their reasons for no longer being in the armed forces are quite diverse. I hope that, as we have this debate, we listen to their voices.

My constituent, Alex, is a former member of the armed forces with years of experience serving in the Royal Navy. As I prepared for this debate, Alex did rather a lot of work with me, having spoken to a number of his colleagues who still serve in the Royal Navy. I would like to share the points that Alex raised with me directly with this House and with the Minister. He says this:

“HMS Northumberland is currently in the final stages of a multimillion pound service. As is typical of our refits, headline upgrades to weapons systems use the bulk of the available budget. The budgets are so constrained that a lot of engineering defects are largely ignored purely due to a lack of funding. The 4 main Diesel engines (used to power and drive the ships) have major issues remaining extant and the switchboards used for main power distribution also have major issues. Due to a lack of funding there is no repair plan in place for these problems. Issues are also going on with the chilled water plants which are used for air conditioning and to cool the weapons control systems. These engineering issues in Northumberland were typical of Type 23 frigates throughout my career in the Navy and a situation arose where despite my warnings, when serving as the diesel maintainer on Monmouth back in 2011, we suffered simultaneous and catastrophic failures on two of our Diesel engines leaving our ship stranded alongside awaiting a double engine change, at huge cost.”

Moving on to manpower issues, my constituent writes:

“The Navy haemorrhaged personnel between 2010 and 2013 with the redundancy tranches. Marine Engineers in particular were hit quite hard. One of the main draw backs was a lack of ability to compete with a higher paying private sector. This loss in engineers left others over worked, and feeling underpaid compared to their civilian counterparts. This was a key reason for me leaving ultimately, I had over 5 months of leave to take that had accumulated over several years of cancelled leave periods due to engineering defects and trials. This lack of man power has now spread to Weapons Engineers and communications ratings. These people are amongst the most capable and highly trained engineers on the planet and the MoD has no real plan for retention and no ability to compete with private employers. I also know that due to staff shortages, people who are just not ready for promotion are being promoted to fill gaps in senior positions. These positions come with great responsibility and it is unfair on the promotee to be put in to that position without sufficient experience. Speaking of manning shortages, HMS Portland has been sat alongside in Devonport since March with a locked gate on her gangway, as they cannot staff the ship. It is occasionally being used for minor training exercises. Then will be going in to refit early next year. If manning is not sorted, when she comes back in to service personnel may need to be passed from other ships causing shortages elsewhere and further compounding the effect of engineers et al missing out on leave.”

My constituent also writes:

“These issues are causing other issues, as more ships are now due to be cut. There are rumours of 2 Type 23s and both LPDs being scrapped and the fabled Type 26 may not see service for another decade. Of the 13 Type 23s currently in service, there are 4 in refit and HMS Portland locked up alongside. Of the remaining 8, at least 2 are running around the UK on reduced man power. That leaves 6 destroyers and 6 frigates out to meet our standing NATO commitments across the globe, providing no destroyers are currently in refit. It’ll be no surprise that we don’t have a UK presence on a few standing NATO deployments as we have a fleet of maybe 12 active surface warships. I was wryly chuckling with my friends that fleet is the wrong word and in reality the Royal Navy makes up barely a squadron.”

I was struck by these comments at the end of what Alex writes:

“This is not a concise appraisal of the struggles of the Royal Navy and certainly more issues are ongoing but these are things I know quite confidently. I have worked across the globe as an engineer since leaving the service and I can say quite categorically that our service men and women are amongst the most capable and expertly skilled engineers on the planet. This means they are sadly being let down by ever tightening shoe string budgets and face annual below inflation pay increases. Though this year they won’t have a below inflation increase as they have been told to expect no increase at all.”

My constituent goes on:

“I know tabloids have said this sensationally before but I don’t feel it has ever been truer than today. Our Armed Forces are at absolute crisis point! Our equipment is over used and under maintained and so are our servicemen and women. The Government needs pressing on this and holding to account for the 7 years of decay they have inflicted.”

I very much hope that the Government will be held to account today, and that the Minister will respond to the points made.

Armed Forces Pay

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to take part in this debate today—and of course a great pleasure to speak after the hon. Member for Aldershot (Leo Docherty), not least because it means that his speech has come to an end.

On a more serious note, as the hon. Gentleman would say, in 11 days’ time all of us will be standing around our local cenotaphs. One thing that moves me greatly is meeting the families of military personnel—both former and present—and hearing the issues that they raise. One such issue is below-inflation pay settlements, but there are other problems relating to accommodation and how rises in costs are not met by those pay settlements, as was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan).

Mention was also made earlier about the credit unions, which were an excellent initiative. Let us not forget that those unions were set up because research showed that 20,000 military personnel—and former military personnel—were relying on payday loans. That is the reality of the situation. I pay tribute to the Government, as they listened to the Royal British Legion on its campaign. I wish to use this debate in the hope that they will listen to the Royal British Legion on another campaign—the “count them in” campaign. In that campaign, the Royal British Legion is asking for a designated question or questions in the census so that more information can be provided on who our military and former military personnel are, so that they can be better served in our communities.

I hope that Ministers will welcome the fact that the Office for National Statistics made a very positive report on this subject. It said:

“Our understanding of the user need for information on those who have served, and now left, the UK armed forces has grown.”

The ONS has noted that linked data only partially meets the users’ needs. We now know also that 88% of people surveyed by the ONS think that it is acceptable to ask these designated questions. The ONS further comments:

“Based on the testing so far, the ONS have concluded that it will be possible to finalise a question that works and is broadly acceptable.”

I really hope that, at this time of year and before the next census is prepared, our Government honour the campaign of the Royal British Legion; honour what is being requested by many military families around our country; listen to the very thoughtful words of the ONS; and fully support the “count them in” campaign so that we as a country can better serve those people who have served and are serving us.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Very good intra-office arrangements; splendid.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

We all owe a great debt of gratitude to those armed forces charities that work so hard supporting former military personnel facing depression and other conditions, but why will the Government not commit to the Royal British Legion’s “Count Them In” campaign so that the charities, the statutory services and everyone else can know where former military personnel live?

[Mr Ellwood]

This is down to a data issue. We are putting together a veterans register, but there is a Data Protection Act issue. We work with Cobseo—the confederation of service charities—and we will be establishing a veterans’ board as well, to make sure that we are meeting the needs of our veterans.

Army Career Offices (Wales)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Chris Evans]

I thank my parliamentary neighbour; I am pleased that both my parliamentary neighbours have intervened on me. On the flip side, people who are not sure might think that the armed forces are not for them, so careers offices are a good facility to ensure that we recruit exactly the right people. I agree with my hon. Friend.

As I said, the armed forces are not something people sign up to online after half an hour of looking for jobs on Google or any other, job-related website and thinking, “Ah, that’s a good idea.” No, it is much more serious than that. Having a point of reference on the high street is vital. Over the years, Army recruitment offices have served Wales and the UK. Also, for the parents of potential recruits, it can be comforting to know that they will have someone to talk to about the career choice that their son or daughter is about to make. Army recruitment offices are familiar and proud features of our high streets right across Wales and Britain. They are a focal point for any young person considering the armed forces as a career.

The Ministry of Defence recently revealed that seven out of 12 Army careers offices in Wales have closed or will close by the end of next month. We are now without an Army careers office in Pontypridd, Abergavenny, Carmarthen, Haverfordwest, Rhyl, Aberystwyth or Bridgend. If we spoke to people in those communities, I am sure that the majority would know where their Army careers office was based. They might walk past it on their way to work, but it was always there. Some of them may even have popped in for a chat about what life in the armed forces is like.

As we move through life, national service becomes a dim and distant memory. Our forces’ footprint is getting smaller all the time. The closures mean that Army life is becoming much more remote. Recruitment offices in south Wales are now consigned only to major areas such as Cardiff, Newport and Swansea. In north Wales, only the offices in Bangor and Wrexham remain open. The thing that I find most disappointing is that the closures were carried out with no formal ministerial announcement and were discovered only following parliamentary questions tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith).

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that today could be a great day? The Government once proposed abolishing the post of chief coroner, but thanks to more consideration and wide-scale opposition, they changed their mind. Does my hon. Friend agree that today could be the day when the Minister changes his mind on this matter and that that would be a great day for all concerned?

[Chris Evans]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I do not think that it is a sign of weakness for someone to say that they were wrong about something or a flip-flop to say that they have changed their mind. They would have analysed the facts, seen that their decision was wrong and gone about rectifying it. I would like to see more of that from the Government. There is no real worry in saying that they were wrong about something, and often it is a display of strength.

The Government have outsourced Army recruitment to a private firm called Capita. It seems perverse that Capita has secured a contract for recruitment worth £440 million, while the armed forces are shedding staff left, right and centre. Some 20,000 regular troops have been axed. Capita had promised to save the Army hundreds of thousands of pounds in recruitment costs when it won the contract. It also tells us that 80% of recruits will be less than 40 minutes away from an Army recruitment centre. Have its staff ever travelled on a bus in rural Wales or tried to get to Cardiff from the valleys during rush hour? We have seen campaigns to save our high street, yet the Government sit back and allow Capita to close recruitment offices. Perhaps it is hardly surprising that, no sooner have the Government privatised armed forces recruitment, anyone considering a career in the Army has been directed online and lost the face-to-face contact that made careers offices so valuable.

Not only Wales is being affected by the closures; across the UK, 83 out of a total of 156 offices will close, leaving just 73 open. Army careers offices were once the first port of call for young men or women who wanted to find out more about making the unique sacrifice and joining our armed forces.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

That would depend on the circumstances. For the United Kingdom, a pre-emptive attack would certainly be regarded as illegal.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

13. What recent progress his Department has made on implementation of the provisions of the Armed Forces Act 2011.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

The Armed Forces Act 2011 received Royal Assent on 3 November 2011. Some of its provisions, including the continuation of the Armed Forces Act 2006, came into force on that day. The provision relating to the call-out of reserve forces came into force two months later. Implementation of the remainder of the Act is now under way. The first commencement order was made on 1 March, which brings into force, with effect on either 8 March or 2 April, about half of the remaining provisions of the Act, including the provisions relating to the armed forces covenant report, Ministry of Defence police performance regulations and the independence of service police investigations.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I thank the Minister for that answer, and may I associate myself with the condolences expressed earlier? Does the Minister agree that means-testing the compensation paid to the bereaved families of those who have fallen on the front line is not right and should be looked at again?

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Will the Minister be kind enough to tell us how many military service personnel who have been made redundant were within a year of pensionable age?

[Mr Robathan]

I do not have the numbers at my fingertips—

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

That is an extremely good point. The hon. Gentleman may be aware that we estimate that 96% of ex-forces personnel find employment within 12 months, and that 93% of the total do so within the first six months. He has made a good point, however, and we will see whether it is possible to do as he asks.

[Susan Elan Jones]

May I ask the Minister whether the new Cabinet Committee will allocate new funds to tackle the important issue of homelessness among veterans?

[Mr Robathan]

We are very concerned about anyone being homeless, and the Ministry of Defence is especially concerned about homeless veterans. One should, however, make absolutely certain that one deals in facts. While any individual being homeless is a concern, we reckon that approximately 3% of those who are found homeless on the streets in the United Kingdom are ex-service personnel. Indeed, I commend to the hon. Lady the organisation Veterans Aid, based in Victoria, which I visited recently. It does fantastic work with ex-service personnel who are homeless.

Mental Health (Veterans)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

Thank you very much, Mr Dobbin, for calling me to speak. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) on securing this very important debate and on the passionate way in which she outlined her case on behalf of her constituent.

I think that we all know that there are about 5 million veterans in the United Kingdom and that a further 20,000 personnel leave our armed forces each year. Having recently returned from a visit to British forces in Afghanistan—a visit I was joined on by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile)—I will take a moment to praise the work of the men and women in our armed forces. They put themselves in harm’s way and they do a terrific job under very difficult circumstances. Of course, it is not only the right hon. Lady’s constituent who is a hero, although I am sure that he is a hero; all the men and women in our armed forces are heroes and heroines too.

In addition, I think that we all know that the transition from military life to civilian life will always be challenging. Of the 20,000 personnel who leave the armed forces each year, about 10%, or 2,000, are discharged for medical reasons and of that number about 10%, or 200, are identified as having one form of mental illness or another. That group of approximately 200 personnel are only 1% of the number of personnel who leave the armed forces each year, but these numbers that I am citing are not insignificant. Last year, 164 personnel had to leave the armed forces due to psychological problems and of that number 35 were diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. We have heard a lot this morning about PTSD, but it is not the mental health illness that is most commonly experienced by armed forces personnel. Depression, anxiety and alcohol abuse are far more prevalent, especially among young men leaving the service early. Indeed, those young men who leave the armed forces within four years of enlisting have been identified as a particularly vulnerable group.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and to my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) for securing this debate. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one very important issue in this debate is homelessness among veterans, which is closely linked with other problems affecting veterans? When I worked for a housing charity in London, I was struck by the fact that I did not have to speak too long to people working in night shelters before they made the point that there is always a certain percentage of veterans who are homeless on our streets, and that homelessness is a problem that is related to the other problems affecting veterans.

[Stephen Gilbert]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention, and she could not be more right about that issue. I chair the all-party group on housing and I have made it a particular business of mine to look at homelessness; in fact, I have applied to speak in an Adjournment debate on that very issue, Mr Dobbin. When I talk to organisations such as Centrepoint or St Mungo’s, it is absolutely clear that there is a particular problem with people who leave our armed forces and who are unable to adapt to civilian life and stabilise their housing needs. The hon. Lady makes a point that I hope the Minister will find time to address when he winds up the debate.