Free School Meals

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Westminster Hall

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I, too, am very pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I congratulate the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) on securing this very welcome debate.

In 2022-23, 30% of children were in poverty after housing costs. That is 4.3 million children, the highest number since 1998-99, reversing all the progress that had been made in the years following that time. The Government’s family resources survey found that one 10th of all households and 15% of households with children were food insecure; that is the Government’s own data. The Food Foundation has been mentioned by both previous speakers. Using a different methodology, taken from the USA’s food security survey model, it found that 17% of all households and 23.4% of households with children were either moderately or severely food insecure in June 2023. Those figures make it absolutely clear that child poverty in the UK is much too high. We are limiting our future potential by keeping it at this high level. The most immediate benefit of free school meals is tackling the scourge of child poverty.

As we have heard, according to the Child Poverty Action Group, a third of school-age children in poverty are missing out on free school meals at the moment. Free school meals are provided to children with parents in receipt of a number of benefits, most importantly universal credit, but only if their household income is less than £7,400 a year. That threshold has not been uprated in six years. I would be grateful if the Minister would comment on that, because it ought to be uprated annually, along with other benefits. The Government estimate that, once other social security income is considered, the threshold equates to a total household income for those families of around £18,000 to £24,000, but that is below what the Joseph Rowntree Foundation estimates that a single person needs for a minimum acceptable living standard, let alone a couple with children.

We have heard about the cost-benefit analysis produced by PwC on extending free school meals to all those who claim universal credit. The analysis took account of research from Sweden to the Department for Education, and from the Association for Young People’s Health to Ofsted, showing that free school meals reduce obesity and absenteeism, improve academic attainment and raise lifetime earnings. Those are all advantages that we need to capture.

The hon. Member for Twickenham referred to the 2009 pilot in the London Borough of Newham. I am pleased to be one of the Members of Parliament who represent that borough, and I am glad to see my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Ms Brown) in her place today. The assessment of the pilot showed that it led to improvements in classroom behaviour, concentration and attainment. Parents also reported that their children were more willing to eat healthily at home. I am pleased to say that Newham has continued to provide free school meals to all primary school pupils ever since, defying waves of Government austerity in the last 15 years. I want to pay tribute to the impressive commitment of my colleagues on Newham Council to maintaining that very important provision. I also pay tribute to Juniper, the council-owned company that provides the meals and is very well-known to my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), who works with it each year at a free school meals event.

Last year the Mayor of London provided funding to help all London boroughs follow suit, and I very much applaud that decision. It is a very popular policy and no doubt one of the reasons for his welcome re-election last week. Now that he has been re-elected, provision across London is thankfully secure for the next four years. Richard Parker and Kim McGuinness, the new Mayors in the West Midlands and the North East, have committed to moving in that direction too.

Free school meals help alleviate poverty and improve children’s health and educational attainment. Let us use this lever much more widely to tackle the scourge of child poverty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Hinds]

When the hon. Member for Twickenham was on her feet, she claimed that the 2014 Act was entirely due to the Liberal Democrats. Of course, it was not; it was a coalition Government at the time. The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West is partly right. There have been multiple extensions to free school meal eligibility, including the provision of free school meals to disadvantaged children in further education colleges. The big factor has been the extension of protections under universal credit, which of course has happened since the coalition Government.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

rose—

[Damian Hinds]

I want to give way to the right hon. Gentleman, who speaks with great authority on these matters. I am worried about the time; if he is quick, I will be quick in response.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

Has the Minister thought about the prospect of uprating that £7,400-a-year income threshold for eligibility for free school meals?

[Damian Hinds]

The right hon. Gentleman has been in these positions himself, so he knows that, of course, we keep that under review. However, I gently point out that it has been under the current system that this much greater proportion of children and young people are eligible for free school meals than was the case when other Governments, including one of whom he was a very distinguished member, were in office.

Overall, more than 2 million pupils are eligible for benefits-related free school meals. In addition, as we have just been discussing, 1.3 million infants in reception, year 1 and year 2 get a free meal under the universal infant free school meals policy, which was introduced in 2014. Further to that, more than 90,000 disadvantaged students in further education receive a free meal at lunchtime. Together, this helps to improve the education of children and young people; it boosts their health and saves their parents considerable sums of money.

We have also introduced extensive protections, which have been in effect since 2018. They ensure that, while universal credit is being fully rolled out, any child eligible for free school meals will retain their entitlement and keep getting free meals until the end of the phase—in other words, until the end of primary or secondary—even if their family’s income rises above the income threshold such that this would otherwise have stopped.

We all know the saying that breakfast is the most important meal of the day, and the evidence does back that up. It shows that children who do not have breakfast are more likely to have issues with behaviour, wellbeing and learning. That is why we continue to support the provision of breakfast, by investing up to £40 million in the national school breakfast programme. The funding supports up to 2,700 schools in disadvantaged areas, and means that thousands of children from low-income families are offered a free, nutritious breakfast, to better support their attainment, wellbeing and readiness to learn. I say gently to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North that we think it is important to target that breakfast investment where it is most needed, which does not mean only in primary schools.

Breaking Down Barriers to Opportunity

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Wednesday 8th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. The Secretary of State’s attack on Sure Start, which was dismantled by the Conservatives, was completely ill-conceived. The one area where I thought she did have a point was in her attack on the state of secondary education when she was a pupil and the Thatcher Government were in charge. Thankfully, the Labour Governments that followed have addressed those very serious problems that she suffered from when she was at school.

In opening the debate, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) was absolutely right to take the Home Secretary to task for her attack on people forced to sleep on the pavements in tents, and for her description of them having made a “lifestyle choice” to do so. It is hard to understand how somebody holding such a crucial role in the government of this country can have no grasp of the harsh realities facing far too many people during the current crisis.

In opening the debate on the King’s Speech yesterday, the Prime Minister spent some time, quite rightly, talking about the situation in the middle east. I want to take the Home Secretary to task again for her description of those taking part in the recent Palestine marches as having taken part in a “hate march”. She owes those marchers an apology. No doubt she has not spoken to any of them, but the constituents whom I have spoken to who have been taking part in those marches have no truck at all with the appalling massacre and hostage-taking by Hamas. They are definitely not motivated by hate; they are motivated by distress and compassion. They see appalling images, refreshed on their screens hourly, of children being killed and maimed. Some have told me they cannot sleep at the moment because of their distress at what is happening. They want it to stop. Surely we all want it to stop. The Home Secretary may reach a different conclusion from those who have been on the marches, but she is absolutely wrong to impugn their motives so unfairly. Unlike the hon. Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax), I think that the Metropolitan Police Commissioner is absolutely right in his decision about the march this weekend; there is no lawful basis for a ban.

I am glad that the Prime Minister has made a renewed commitment to deliver a two-state solution—two secure states alongside each other in peace—but we have all been saying that for so long and nobody has done anything to make it happen. The Government of Israel have for years been undermining that prospect. One of the criticisms they will have to answer when the fighting stops is why their soldiers were off protecting people living in the still-expanding illegal settlements in the west bank when they should have been protecting Israeli citizens in their own country, who were left undefended in the Hamas attack. The renewed commitment to a two-state solution from the Prime Minister, which I welcome, must be delivered once the fighting stops.

Like others, I was struck by omissions from the King’s Speech. It refers to proposals being published to reform welfare and support more people into work, but there is no sign of any Bill. The Government have been undertaking a rushed consultation lasting only eight weeks over major proposals to change the descriptors for the work capability assessment. On the Work and Pensions Committee, we have heard from organisations such as Citizens Advice about the deeply unsatisfactory nature of that rushed exercise, and the consequences for people who are out of work on health grounds. The Government’s own Equality and Human Rights Commission has said that

“the consultation period is insufficient to enable disabled people and their representative organisations to respond meaningfully.”

The Select Committee asked on a unanimous cross-party basis that the consultation be extended so that it can be done properly. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State rejected our request.

There will have to be legislation to make whatever changes are decided on, but there is no mention at all in the King’s Speech of a Bill to do it. There is a puzzle here, because the Government have announced that they plan to abolish the work capability assessment in a couple of years anyway. That will require legislation, but there is no Bill to do any of those things in the King’s Speech. There are press reports that the Government intend to inspect benefits claimants’ bank accounts regularly. That will also require powers, but there is nothing in the King’s Speech that would have that effect either.

There is no pensions Bill. The Government consulted on proposals for the consolidation of defined-benefit pension schemes in 2018. Finally, after five years, the Government responded to that consultation in July this year. Consolidation is important for the ambition to secure more pension scheme investment into the UK economy, as set out by the Chancellor in his Mansion House speech. In that speech, he spoke of

“introducing a permanent superfund regulatory regime”.

The commitment of the Minister for Pensions to having a permanent regulated regime for superfunds as soon as parliamentary time allows was very welcome, but there is not a Bill. The aspiration that the Chancellor set out not very long ago will not be fulfilled by this King’s Speech.

In evidence to the Work and Pensions Committee, the chief executive of Clara-Pensions said that in an “ideal world” legislation for superfunds “would be enacted today.” Luke Webster of The Pension SuperFund said that the direction of travel set out in the Department’s response was

“very helpful and having that properly defined in regulation would give a lot more confidence to investors and those involved in delivering these proposals.”

But there is no Bill.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne pointed out in her opening speech, there is no employment Bill either. Ever since the Taylor review six years ago, Ministers have promised a Bill to regularise the status of people working in the gig economy, ensuring access to a pension scheme and other rights that Parliament has determined they should have. It was in the Queen’s Speech in 2019, but yesterday it was missing once again.

Today the Trussell Trust announced the highest ever level of food bank demand. In the six months to September, more than 1.5 million emergency food parcels were given out—16% more than in the same period last year. Nothing in the King’s Speech addressed that disgrace.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I think I had better wind up, considering the advice you have given us, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Chancellor must at least uprate working-age benefits in line with September’s inflation to avoid making matters even worse.

Safety of School Buildings

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

I have here a briefing document. It would save us all a bit of time and energy if Conservative Members just gave us the number and let us deal with it. The Welsh Labour Government have been taking consistent action to rebuild schools during their time in office; the hon. Gentleman might not like it, but it is a fact, and that stands in stark contrast to what has been happening here in England.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. The Work and Pensions Committee highlighted last year the growing number of retired schoolteachers succumbing to mesothelioma because of exposure to asbestos during their working life. At the current rate of progress, it will take 350 years to remove all the asbestos from schools. Does she agree that the Department must get a move on with that?

[Bridget Phillipson]

My right hon. Friend is right to draw our attention to that matter, and I appreciate the work that his Committee has done on it. It would also be helpful if we had some clarity today from the Secretary of State about the risks that might arise when RAAC interacts with asbestos. If she could say a little bit more about that, I am sure all Members from across the House would be grateful.

Childcare: Affordability and Availability

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the affordability and availability of childcare.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I am eternally grateful to have secured—to have been granted—this debate so that we can address the important issue of childcare affordability and availability, because the simple reality is that this Government are seriously failing children, parents and businesses through the chronic lack of affordable and high-quality childcare in our country. My Slough constituents are far from impressed. Indeed, the reason why I put in for the debate was to express their anger and to try to express to the Chamber just how frustrated many individuals, not just in my constituency but across our country, are. As far as I can tell, Ministers have little interest in doing something substantial and radical to rectify this. However, the Government’s usual lack of effort and ambition, as frustrating as it is, does not mean that we should not at least try to persuade them that they need to up their game.

We know that the first 1,001 days of a child’s life are integral to their development, and evidence shows that improvements in children’s outcomes in both the long and the short term are strongly associated with the quality of their early childhood education and care. The Local Government Association has told me that by the time disadvantaged young people, in particular, sit their GCSEs at the age of 16, they are about 18 months behind their peers, and about 40% of that gap has emerged by the age of five. It is therefore crucial that we provide the best possible environment in which to bring up children.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I welcome the case that my hon. Friend is making, and congratulate him on securing the debate. Has he seen the report published today by the Select Committee on Work and Pensions on support for childcare costs in universal credit? It highlights two big problems. One is that people claiming universal credit have to pay the up-front costs of the first month’s childcare; they have to pay the first month’s childcare costs themselves and are reimbursed later. For some people, finding such a large sum of money is simply not possible. Secondly, the cap on monthly childcare support is the same as it was in 2005; it has not been uprated, so it nowhere near covers the costs of full-time childcare support.

[Mr Dhesi]

I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend the Chairman of the Work and Pensions Committee, not only for that impressive intervention but for his tireless, persistent work in this area to try to shine a light on the injustices. I sincerely hope that the Minister and the Government will look closely at the findings in the Select Committee report and take action accordingly.

Since this Government came to power in 2010, parents of children under the age of two have had to deal with a 60% increase in the cost of a part-time nursery place. Average earnings have grown at only half that rate over the same period, putting ever greater pressure on already squeezed family budgets. As one Mumsnet user wrote:

“When we started using nursery 9 years ago it was £45 a day. Now the same nursery we use for our…3 year old is £90. He gets 30 hours free in January but they…will also be putting fees up then. Honestly when he goes to school we will have £1,000 extra”

to pay

“a month. It’s more than our mortgage.”

That is not an isolated case. A joint survey by Mumsnet and Pregnant Then Screwed found that close to two thirds of parents are spending on childcare as much as, or even more than they spend on their rent or mortgage. Shockingly, one in four parents is cutting down on food, heating or clothing in order to afford sky-high childcare costs.

What are parents doing in response? Increasingly, they are being forced to take themselves out of the labour market. Under this Conservative Government, a day’s pay is not worthwhile for a parent needing childcare.

Sadly, women are often hit hardest by the Government’s failed childcare system. Only three in 10 mothers with a child aged one work full time, and three in 10 mothers with a child under 14 say they have reduced their working hours for childcare reasons. The Office for National Statistics found that the number of women who are not in work in order to look after family has risen by 3% in the past year alone. That is the first sustained increase in at least 30 years, reversing decades of reduction. Women who are reducing their hours, forgoing promotions or even leaving work altogether due to unaffordable childcare suffer lasting financial consequences, and that widens the gender pay and pensions gaps.

This is also a huge issue for business. At a time when so many vacancies are going unfilled, this motherhood penalty equates to 43,000 women dropping out of the workforce in the last year alone. It is no wonder that even the Confederation of British Industry is calling for reform, highlighting that childcare costs in the UK are now some of the highest in the OECD and that our economy is suffering from losing £28 billion of economic output every year, because women are being forced to choose between their careers and their children. We could add a whopping £57 billion to our GDP simply by increasing female participation in the workforce—something that greater childcare provision would help achieve.

On this Government’s watch, the childcare system is failing families, women, businesses and our economy. I would therefore think that addressing it was a priority, especially given how formative these early years are for our children, so why are the Government not taking decisive action to fix this mess? They tried to convince us that they were by announcing the 15 and 30-hour free childcare entitlement, alongside their commitment to the tax-free childcare scheme. As with so many other Conservative policies over the past 12 years, even this small stepping stone towards improving the accessibility of childcare has failed to deliver the bare minimum. As I pointed out last month in the Chamber, the Government, not satisfied with hammering parents, women, businesses and the economy, have set their sights on making it too expensive for childcare providers to operate by consistently underfunding the 15 and 30-hour entitlement by more than £2 an hour, thus forcing providers to use their own resources to plug the gap and further driving up the cost of childcare. Meanwhile, Ministers have spent a whopping £2.37 billion less than they allocated for their flagship tax-free childcare scheme in the past four years alone.

Rather than ensuring we have even more childcare providers to meet the significant demand for childcare across our country, the Government have created an environment in which 4,000 childcare providers closed between March 2021 and 2022—that is 4,000 providers in just one year. We have childcare costs rising twice as fast as wages and businesses struggling to fill vacancies while women who want to work cannot because of childcare. Despite the demand, thousands of childcare providers are closing while the Government underfund the sector. That is this Government’s record.

As a country, we can and must do much better. The Government must recognise that families need support from the end of parental leave right through to the end of primary school. While more investment is needed, surely as a minimum the Government should stick to their original commitments. I ask the Minister to commit to investing in the childcare system the more than £2 billion her party has pledged. During this cost of living crisis, families are already struggling, so when will the Minister step in to ensure that parents are not forced to sacrifice a meal or a night of heating over the winter months to pay for their child’s care? Maybe the Government would be in a better position if they had developed a long-term plan. With five Education Secretaries this year alone, the Minister is probably just happy to get through the year without any more chaos. However, families across our country should not be made to suffer because of the Government’s continued incompetence.

Parents need the introduction of universal primary breakfast clubs for every primary-aged child in England, which I look forward to hearing more about, I hope, from the shadow Minister. That would help disadvantaged pupils, in particular, to access additional support from staff and friends, allowing them to catch up on learning. Where is the Government’s commitment to that? Instead of cutting hundreds of Sure Start centres, the Government should be investing in local children’s centres and helping parents with young families in some of the most disadvantaged areas in our country to get them the best possible start in life. Why aren’t they?

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Monday 28th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I will just say once again, Minister, please stop taking advantage of these poor Back Benchers, who are desperate to get their questions in.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

It is estimated that 4,000 Muslim young people every year choose, with a heavy heart, not to enter higher education because their faith bars them from paying interest on a student loan. David Cameron said nine years ago that he would fix that. Will the new ministerial team, whom I welcome, commit to introducing alternative student finance and give us some indication of when that will be?

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Robert Halfon)]

I am strongly committed to introducing alternative student finance, something my Harlow constituents have also lobbied me about. The issue is that we want, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, to introduce the lifelong learning entitlement, and we will introduce alternative student finance in conjunction with that.

Mathematical Sciences: Contribution to Society

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Ian Paisley (in the Chair)]

I am going to call Sir Stephen Timms to move the motion. I will then call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up because that is the convention in a 30-minute debate.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the contribution of the mathematical sciences to society.

I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley, and am most grateful to Mr Speaker for selecting this subject for debate to help to mark Maths Week this week. I am pleased to see the distinguished Schools Minister in his place, and I welcome and applaud his appointment—for the third time, if I remember correctly, which surely makes him the longest-serving Schools Minister ever, and deservedly so. I am also pleased that the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), who I think taught maths before being elected, is in her place.

The aims of Maths Week are to raise the profile of mathematics throughout England, change the conversation about maths in the population at large to be more positive, enable children and adults from all backgrounds to access and enjoy mathematical experiences, supplement teachers and support them to plan low-cost and high-impact maths activities at their schools during the week, encourage higher education centres to invite schoolchildren to visit maths events, raise aspiration, encourage greater take-up of maths at A-level and university, and make maths accessible to and enjoyable for people who think it an elitist subject just for “clever” people.

I want to do four things in my speech: underline the value of maths in enabling us to solve the big challenges our society faces and to build our economy; press the Minister to deliver the full commitment on funding for research in the mathematical sciences pledged by the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), in January 2020; argue for ensuring that degree-level maths does not become the preserve of the well-off; and press the case for much higher take-up of maths post 16, fulfilling the promise of core maths, which we see in the higher take- up of maths in the most successful economies around the world.

I have a maths degree, so I am biased, and I know that maths can often seem a bit impenetrable to those not familiar with it, and that being “no good” at maths can almost be a boast sometimes, but maths enables the most exciting and urgent technological developments in energy generation, artificial intelligence, driverless cars, quantum computing and tackling climate change. Professor Alison Etheridge, chair of the Council for the Mathematical Sciences, points out that the maths used to design dust filters in vacuum cleaners is also used to develop filters to remove arsenic from groundwater in the Ganges-Brahmaputra delta, which benefits hundreds of thousands of people.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman bringing the matter forward and I concur with his comments.

At this time, many of the United Kingdom’s priorities are focused on energy supply and climate change, as well as targets for the future, and the University of Lancaster has concluded that mathematics has proven to be a basic but crucial component of building resilience in terms of flooding and understanding data fluctuations with respect to our energy supplies. With that in mind, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that further funding for mathematics must be centred on helping our students of STEM—science, technology, engineering and maths—including 53% of further education students in Northern Ireland, although I acknowledge the Minister has no responsibility for them, because they are paving the way for success with respect to environmental change in the UK?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I do agree with him: maths is a vital enabler of economic growth, and it underpins many technological advancements that contribute so much to UK economic growth. We need to value that.

Deloitte estimates that the mathematical sciences add more than £200 billion a year to the UK economy, that there is a significant salary premium for advanced maths skills, which is calculated to be £8,000 a year, and that the mathematical sciences are of fundamental importance to tackling all our most pressing policy challenges. The hon. Gentleman has just given a good example of that.

The maths that is most familiar to us is about certainty—a x b = c—but maths also provides the tools to quantify uncertainty, underpinning important decisions in medicine and finance, and on the environment. Furthermore, understanding uncertainty is crucial to making decisions on how to deploy limited resources, from allocating hospital beds to dividing up the bandwidth available for telecommunications.

The briefing for the debate provided by the Protect Pure Maths campaign, which I congratulate on its efforts, gives a couple of examples of the use of a mathematical theory called extreme value theory. Unfortunately, my maths course did not include extreme value theory, which has been used in the successful work of Professor Chris Dent and others on energy generation and storage, which has had a big impact on improving energy supply, as well as in the work referred to by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), carried out at the University of Lancaster, to build resilience against extreme flood events.

Extreme value theory was not invented for those reasons, but as invariably happens with mathematical theories developed initially because they are beautiful and fascinating, that theory has turned out to have immensely important practical applications. Algebraic geometry is an important set of ideas in pure maths, some of which were in my course, and pure mathematician turned economist Elizabeth Baldwin has applied the theory of algebraic geometry to microeconomics to design an effective auction system for carbon permits. Her work has been used by the Bank of England, and more and more maths is being used in the social sciences and humanities.

Protect Pure Maths is calling for the Government to demonstrate their understanding of the transformative power of maths by launching a strategy for maths to strengthen UK leadership and to equip us to compete in a global economy that is increasingly dominated by big data, complex systems and artificial intelligence. The Institute and Faculty of Actuaries also provided a briefing for the debate, and it points out that mathematics is fundamental to the work of actuaries in insurance and pensions, and in health and care.

In January 2020, there was a warm welcome for the commitment by the then Prime Minister to invest £300 million of additional funding into research in the mathematical sciences. Of that, £124 million has been spent on projects of national importance, including on institutes, small and large research grants, fellowships, doctoral studentships and post-doctoral awards.

Some of that work is concerned with solving current challenges of the kind that I have referred to, but some rightly is to pursue intellectual inquiry of the kind that characterises pure maths, the output of which will almost certainly yield real-world applications in future, although they are not apparent at the moment. More than half the additional investment—£176 million—has not yet been allocated.

The chief executive of UK Research and Innovation has stated:

“We did not receive £300 million specifically labelled ‘mathematical sciences’ despite the announcement.”

The announcement that she referred to was made by the then Prime Minister. We are surely not in the position where a crystal-clear announcement, attracting lots of attention, made by a Conservative Prime Minister, turned out to be untrue. A recent written answer on this from the noble Lord Callanan in the other place suggested that there was doubt about whether the funding would be forthcoming. I hope the Minister will clarify that, and confirm that the funding already announced for hugely valuable mathematical science research will be delivered.

Without that additional £176 million, doctoral studentships, fellowships and research programmes will remain unfunded. University maths departments need clarity about the sustainability of maths funding, in order to give the go-ahead for research and innovation programmes that will last years into the future—programmes that will underpin future technological breakthroughs of great economic importance.

Marcus du Sautoy, Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford, has made the point that

“maths underpins all science and technology”.

So it makes sense, he says,

“to allocate funds to mathematical research, even at a time of tight finances…It would be incredibly unwise to now abandon that pledge.”

We have seen welcome progress with advanced maths education since I was doing the Minister’s job more than 20 years ago. The trend then of falling numbers of A-level applicants and undergraduates was halted and, I think, reversed. Changes introduced by another maths graduate, Charles Clarke, when he was Secretary of State, started the improving trend.

The Protect Pure Maths campaign was initially established in response to some UK universities cutting back their maths provision. Governments might be reluctant to intervene in the decisions of individual universities, but the Government should make clear the strategic importance of maths, and incentivise and support universities to give it priority, particularly beyond Russell Group universities, because maths is becoming an almost exclusively high-tariff degree. There is big growth at many high-tariff university maths courses, with one leading maths department in England increasing its intake from 300 to 600 undergraduates a year, but the courses at low-tariff universities, many of them highly regarded, are shrinking. One of them has gone from 150 to 35 undergraduates a year.

Students from lower-income backgrounds are much less likely to go to university outside their local area. If maths courses become too small to be viable, we will see the emergence of maths deserts, which would reduce access to one of the best degrees in terms of future earnings. We need strong and sustainable maths departments at universities in all parts of the country, and in universities of all kinds.

The other key issue for this Maths Week debate is the low take-up of maths in the UK post GCSE. More 16 to 18-year-olds should be encouraged to take up core maths, which is an invention of this Government that I imagine the Minister had a good deal to do with at the time. The background is that, in 2010, the Nuffield Foundation published a report titled “Is the UK an outlier? An international comparison of upper secondary mathematics education”. It turned out that the answer to that question was yes. Twenty-four countries were surveyed, and the UK had the lowest level of participation in upper secondary maths. Of the 24, England, Wales and Northern Ireland were the only countries with participation of less than 20%.

In June 2011, the then Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), looked forward to a situation in which

“within a decade the vast majority of pupils are studying mathematics right through to the age of 18”.

In 2014, he said that by 2020—two years ago—the vast majority of students would be studying maths in some form after the age of 16. He meant not just A-level maths but the new qualification of level 3 core maths, which teaches the statistical and analytical skills essential to every profession, from law to medicine, and from journalism to manufacturing.

That increase has not happened. Progress in the last eight years has been lamentable—one might even say negligible. The UK remains an outlier. In Germany, Japan and the USA, well over 50% of 17-year-olds are studying maths in some form. In Finland and Ireland, the figure is over 80%. In the UK, it is still below 20%.

[Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman is giving an exceptional speech. I am delighted to speak out in Maths Week for the subject that I studied and love. Does he agree that one of the challenges for rural schools particularly is that, because of the restrictions of their rural settings, they are unable to have specialist science, technology, engineering and maths sixth forms? I hope the new ministerial team will apply more maths in general to their funding decisions. In rural schools, the funding simply does not add up, and in large education authorities, such as Devon, we do look not at the variance in achievement but only at the average.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her well-informed and valid comment. The big problem is the shortage of teachers. In rural schools and elsewhere, getting hold of teachers with specialist maths abilities who are able to teach the subject post 17 is a big challenge. I very much agree with her. The Government should invest more in recruiting, developing and retaining maths teachers, because the lack of teachers is the key problem with the take-up of core maths. We need subject-specific continuing professional development for all maths teachers, and we need to upskill maths teachers who do not have a maths degree.

Maths is hugely valuable in enabling us to solve the big challenges that our society faces, and in building the economy. The Government must deliver the full commitment of funding into research in the mathematical sciences pledged by the then Prime Minister in January 2020. Degree-level mathematics must not become the preserve of the well-off. As the Government repeatedly said some years ago, we also need much higher take-up of maths post 16, as we see in the most successful economies around the world. The Government must fulfil their earlier promises. I very much look forward to the Minister’s response.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Nick Gibb)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley—for the first time, I think. I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) on securing this debate, which concerns a subject that I, he and my hon. Friends regard as very important. I thank him for his generous comments about my reappointment. He, too, was a Schools Minister, and I know how deeply he cares about the education of the next generation, particularly children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Mathematical sciences are fundamental to our success as a nation. A deep mathematical and scientific knowledge and understanding is a necessary element of everyday life, but is increasingly required in more and more occupations and higher education courses—not just in the sciences but the social sciences and humanities. The Government are committed to ensuring that all pupils have a solid grounding in maths and science, and to encouraging greater participation as they progress through their school careers so we can grow the numbers of engineers, research scientists and technology experts of the future.

Improving mathematical knowledge at all levels is likely to deliver significant returns in terms of labour market skills, individual success—as the right hon. Member for East Ham said in his speech—increased productivity and longer-term economic benefit. It will allow us to lead the way in scientific innovation. Keeping the UK’s place at the leading edge of science and technology will be essential to our prosperity and competitiveness in the digital age.

The Government recognise that demand for STEM alumni at all levels is growing. That is why we must ensure that everyone, regardless of their background, has the opportunity to pursue STEM careers. Improving the quality of maths and science teaching, and increasing the number of young people who study those subjects beyond GCSE, is key to addressing the STEM shortage, and to supporting the UK economy and its growth. The Department is therefore encouraging more students into STEM subjects across all key stages, from primary and secondary school to higher and further education.

The Government have committed to substantial spending on maths, digital and technical education to increase the take-up and better teaching of STEM subjects in schools and colleges. Instilling a deep understanding and love of mathematics—shared by my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon)—from an early age is vital. That is why the Department introduced teaching for mastery, which is a pedagogy based on high performing jurisdictions, including Shanghai and Singapore, that emphasises whole-class teaching and builds knowledge systematically—step by step and in small increments. That helps students to gain fluency and a deep understanding of mathematical concepts. I saw that at first hand when I visited Shanghai schools a few years ago.

The Department has spent over £100 million on the teaching for mastery programme, delivered by maths hubs—40 school-led centres of excellence in maths teaching that are responsible for a range of activities to improve the teaching of maths in all schools, from primary school to the age of 18. The hubs are supported by the National Centre for Excellence in the Teaching of Mathematics, which is funded by the Department for Education. I pay tribute to Debbie Morgan and Charlie Stripp of the NCETM for their brilliant work over many years in improving the teaching of arithmetic and maths in our primary schools, and more recently in our secondary schools.

Results from the trends in international mathematics and science study 2019 showed that our year 5 and year 9 pupils continued to perform above the international averages in maths and science. That included a significant improvement in maths for our year 5 pupils, taking us to our highest ever score. This year also saw the roll-out of the first regular multiplication tables check on year 4 pupils. Knowing one’s tables by heart, up to 12 times 12, is essential for more complex maths involving the application of fractions and algebra, where instant retrieval of numbers is so important. I will resist asking any of my hon. Friends and hon. Members their times table questions now—I have had that done to me too many times.

Post 16, ensuring more students are studying maths beyond GCSE is a fundamental aim. Maths continues to be the most popular A-level subject, with 87,000 students taking it in 2022, up from 69,800 in 2010. Further maths entries at A-level have also risen, from 10,800 in 2010 to over 14,000 in 2022. But there is more to do, particularly to ensure that students from under-represented groups, as referred to by the right hon. Member for East Ham, are participating in the subject. That is why the Department continues to fund the advanced maths support programme, which provides high-quality professional development and online resources for teachers to support schools and colleges to expand their post-16 maths curriculum. Over 3,000 state-funded schools have participated in the programme since its launch in 2018.

As the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, the Government would like to see more students studying core maths qualifications designed for sixth-formers who are not studying maths at A-level, but who wish to continue to study maths. That will prepare those students for the mathematical demands of university study and employment. More than 12,000 students took such qualifications last year, but there is more to do to raise awareness and encourage their take-up.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

It was the Government’s ambition that the great majority of students in the 16 to 18 range would study maths in some form—mostly core maths. Does that remain the Government’s ambition, and how long does the Minister think it is likely to take to achieve that ambition?

[Nick Gibb]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that is the Government’s aim. I think we will have more to say on this issue in the coming months, because it is essential in an advanced economy such as Britain that more young people are studying maths—even those like me, who did well at maths O-level but did not go on to study it at sixth form because I was studying history, economics and English. I now wish that I had taken at least some post-16 qualification in maths. More young people would benefit from that, so it continues to be the Government’s objective.

To help tackle the challenges, the advanced maths support programme is rolling out a national team of specialist core maths advisors to support participation in core maths and to develop expertise and best practice. Their role will be to support schools and colleges to establish core maths provision, and to provide continuing professional development and dedicated support. The advanced maths support programme also provides free maths resources for teachers and students. The Department is supporting schools and colleges with additional funding through the advanced maths premium, which is a £600 incentive payment per student and per qualification to boost growth in level 3 qualifications in schools.

In science, the Department funds a range of programmes, including the Stimulating Physics Network, which offers tailored support to schools to increase the rates of progression to physics A-level and the uptake of physics among girls. As of October 2022, 299 continuing professional development days have been delivered. The Isaac Physics programme is designed to increase the number of students, particularly from typically under-represented backgrounds, studying physics in higher education, and it serves about 80% of schools. In 2022, there were a total of 35,800 A-level physics entries—an increase from 27,800 in 2010.

The right hon. Gentleman and I can agree that we need all students to be competent and digitally literate to succeed in the digital age. The computing curriculum introduced in September 2014 provides pupils with the broad knowledge they need to specialise later—for example, in computer programming and AI—from key stage 1 to key stage 4. It also facilitates further study at A-level, and on to degree level and other post-16 options. England was one of the first G20 countries to place coding in the primary curriculum, introducing pupils to writing computer programmes and how computer networks operate. Computer science was one of the fastest growing GCSE subjects between 2013 and 2019, and we are confident that our spending on improving computing education will inspire more pupils to take the subject at GCSE.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the funding of mathematical sciences research. Research in mathematical sciences is key for the advancement of all areas of science and technology, and it is a vital area of science in itself. An additional £124 million has been committed to mathematical sciences, on top of between £25 million and £30 million a year for grants, fellowships and studentships, which UKRI’s Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council has always invested in this area. Absorbing any additional uplift to mathematical sciences into core budgets would require significant reductions in other engineering and physical sciences disciplines. That would reduce critical capabilities in disciplines such as engineering and information communications technology, which, alongside mathematical sciences, are key foundations of the UK’s ambitions in areas such as net zero and AI.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

This commitment of £300 million—£60 million a year over five years—was given in a blaze of publicity by the then Prime Minister in January 2020. Surely the Minister is not telling us that the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip said something that was not true.

[Nick Gibb]

What I am saying is that this funding is not ringfenced. Rather than ringfenced budgets addressing single priorities, UKRI aims to create a portfolio of investments where each pound contributes to delivering multiple priorities, providing much better value for money and leveraging the benefits of UKRI as an integrated research and innovation funder. In this context, UKRI is looking for opportunities to support foundational mathematical research across its entire portfolio.

The right hon. Gentleman also referred to the issue of teachers in response to an intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon. The Government are ensuring that all schools have access to highly skilled teachers. Teaching remains an attractive and fulfilling profession and the number of teachers remains high, with more than 465,000 working in state-funded schools across the country—24,000 more than in 2010. The Department has made substantial incentives available to attract the brightest individuals to teach high-demand subjects, including a £27,000 tax-free bursary in chemistry, computing, maths and physics, and prestigious scholarships in those subjects worth £29,000. There is also substantial continuous professional development for new and existing teaching staff through the early career framework and a new suite of national professional qualifications.

In conclusion, I hope that this Chamber will understand how committed the Government are to science and to ensuring that all pupils have the chance to succeed.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I thank the Minister for giving way one final time. I just want to go back to the question of the £300 million. Does he accept that the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, absolutely clearly said that the £300 million was for research in mathematical sciences? It was ringfenced in his announcement. Surely that commitment should be honoured?

[Nick Gibb]

The right hon. Gentleman has made his point, and I have made the point that UKRI has an un-ringfenced approach in how it allocates its investments. It is important to allow that institution discretion to determine how it allocates its funding. Of course, fundamental foundational research in mathematical sciences goes right across all the disciplines that UKRI oversees.

The Department continues to deliver substantial spending on maths, digital and technical education, and to increase the take-up and better teaching of STEM subjects in schools. We are clear that the acquisition of knowledge is the basic building block of education to which all pupils should have fair access. A knowledge-based curriculum can stimulate critical thinking—a skill that can be acquired only through the teaching of solid subject content. The Government are steadfast in maintaining our position as a world leader in scientific research, and are committed to ensuring a pipeline of knowledge and technical understanding to provide the UK with a highly expert workforce for the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

The safety of pupils and staff is paramount. We have one of the largest condition data collection programmes in Europe, which helps us to assess and manage risk across the estate. Through our programmes, we prioritise buildings where there is a risk to health and safety. We have invested more than £13 billion since 2015 in improving the condition of school buildings and facilities, which includes £1.8 billion committed this year. In addition, our new school rebuilding programme will transform the learning environment at 500 schools over the next decade and will prioritise evidence of severe need and safety issues.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

5. What progress his Department has made on developing an alternative student finance product for Muslim students.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Nadhim Zahawi)]

We remain committed to delivering alternative student finance, and we are currently considering if and how it can be delivered as part of the lifelong loan entitlement.

[Stephen Timms]

It is estimated that 4,000 Muslim students a year do not go into higher education because there is no finance available that is compatible with their faith. David Cameron promised to fix this nine years ago. A good deal of work was done, but it seems to have run into the sand in the past few years. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for reaffirming the Government’s commitment to delivering on David Cameron’s promise, but can he give us an indication of how much longer Muslim students will have to wait?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

We will provide a further update on alternative student finance as part of our response to the LLE consultation, which closed earlier this month.

Schools White Paper

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nadhim Zahawi]

My hon. Friend has always been a great champion for his schools and speaks with real experience as an accomplished teacher in his own right. He is right that we need our best, highest-performing multi-academy trusts to lift their ambitions. This White Paper will deliver that, including additional funding of £80 million to get that momentum going again. We are about to announce our 10,000th academy and we have 22,000 schools in England. I am ambitious for every part of the country, and we will deliver that ambition in Stoke-on-Trent as well as in other parts of the country.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on his choice of Monega Primary School for his speech this morning.

Some multi-academy trusts are a bureaucratic mess at the moment. I welcome the proposal to allow local authorities to set up and lead trusts. Does he also have plans, as has been reported, to allow schools to exit MATs that do not suit them and to increase the accountability of trusts to local authorities?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

Yes, we do. The White Paper speaks to this. We will consult on the regulatory framework around trusts so that the best-performing trusts have the confidence to join us in making sure that we get that framework right.

Higher Education Reform

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Thursday 24th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nadhim Zahawi]

That is absolutely right. I could not have put it any better.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

It is estimated that 4,000 Muslim young people every year choose with a heavy heart not to enter higher education because of the Islamic ban on interest. Nine years ago, David Cameron promised a system of alternative student finance to overcome that problem. We were told there would be a decision on that in this statement today. Does the Secretary of State plan to honour the promise made by the leader of his party to Muslim young people?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I am grateful for that important question. It is only sensible that we align the future delivery of alternative student finance with these major reforms to ensure fair treatment for all students.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [Lords]

Stephen Timms Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 21st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

To be of assistance, I am going to put in place a six-minute time limit. If we cannot stick to my helpful guidance, not everybody will get in.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

We are having an interesting debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) on the case that he set out from the Front Bench by rightly highlighting that, every couple of years, the Government say they will solve the skills problem by putting employers at the centre, and it never works, so they come back and do the same thing again. He was also right to highlight the failure of the apprenticeship levy, about which the Government were warned.

I rise to speak to new clause 13 in my name. Nine years ago, the Government pledged to introduce alternative student finance, but it still has not been delivered, barring large numbers of Muslims from higher education. The problem became a serious one in 2012, when tuition fees were drastically raised and student loans became essential for pretty much everybody. For some British Muslims, having to take an interest-bearing student loan simply meant that they could not go to university at all. Riba—interest—is prohibited in Islam as it was in Christianity until the middle ages. Some Muslim young people defer university until they have saved to pay the fees outright. Some, with a heavy heart, take out a loan and feel bad about it ever after. Others do not attend at all. That is the reality facing young British Muslims today.

Last October, Muslim Census published the findings of a survey on the scale of the problem. It concluded that, every year, 4,000 Muslim students opt out of university altogether because alternative student finance is not available, 6,000 choose to self-fund, severely limiting their course choice and student experience, and four in five who took loans felt conflicted as a result, sometimes leading to mental health consequences requiring clinical intervention. It is in nobody’s interests to fail such a large group of bright young people who we need to contribute their full potential in the years ahead. As Prime Minister, David Cameron promised to change that. At the World Islamic Economic Forum in London in 2013, he said:

“Never again should a Muslim in Britain feel unable to go to university because they cannot get a student loan - simply because of their religion.”

The promise he made was very clear. Nine years later, there is still not even a timetable for keeping it. It looks to young Muslims as if Ministers simply cannot be bothered.

A year after David Cameron’s speech, a Government consultation attracted 20,000 responses—a record at the time—on a proposed takaful system, in which students pay into the system to guarantee each other against loss. This co-operative structure is generally recognised as sharia-compliant. Repayments, debt levels and cost to the Government would be the same as for conventional student loans. But progress since then over eight years has been glacial. In November 2015, a Green Paper said:

“we are looking to develop the ‘Takaful’ product more fully.”

A White Paper the following year said there was a “a real need” to support students who felt unable to use interest-bearing loans and that:

“we will introduce an alternative student finance product for the first time”—

which—

“will avoid the payment of interest”.

That was seven years ago. In 2017, campaigners hoped the new Higher Education and Research Act 2017 would enable a takaful loan model. Ministers then said that the May 2019 Augar review would cover it. It did not, but ever since Ministers have used the forthcoming response to that report as a justification for still not doing anything. The response to the Augar review was supposed to be published at the time of the spending review, but six months later there is still no word.

British Muslims make up nearly 5% of the UK population and almost 10% of students. In the borough I represent, Muslims are about a third of our population. It is extremely hurtful that the Government simply cannot be bothered to keep the promise they made nine years ago to so many people. Thousands of young Muslims miss out on university. Others struggle over the conflict between what they believe and their hopes for higher education. Our system should not be doing that to people, as the Government recognised nine years ago. New clause 13 requires the Secretary of State to at last make the long-awaited regulations. I hope the House and the Minister will support it.

[Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)]

I rise to speak on new clause 4 and will make a brief round-up in support of new clauses 2, 5 and 7.

On new clause 4—our proposal for a green skills strategy—I and others firmly believe that we have a green skills emergency and that net zero cannot happen without know-how. Existing workers, who in some cases are already losing their jobs due to covid or chronic instability in the oil and gas sector, can be brought over to new industries such as wind, low carbon, hydrogen and energy-efficient homes. Meanwhile, young people want to work in sectors they know are good for them and good for the planet. Providing green skills is therefore a positive part of the net zero debate. I ask my hon. Friend the Minister, and the Department, to seize this opportunity, with his leadership and influence over other Departments. Young people will not only be prepared for the future, but provide solutions for the future.

I welcome the much-needed focus on how the country will deliver its net zero targets, and what they mean for individuals and families. That honest conversation cannot come soon enough. We have lived with our 2050 targets for some time now. The majority of people want to protect the planet and ensure they leave a healthy environment for their children, grandchildren and future generations. Yet people are nervous. With inflation and energy prices starting to bite and the cost of paying for the pandemic in the background, it is understandable that suggestions that they are going to be forced into changing their cars, changing the way they live or insulating their homes in an expensive way are quite terrifying for some. However, when I speak to families who are worried about that aspect of the 2050 targets, they are absolutely clear that they recognise there are jobs to be had not only for them, but their children.

We know that the market will do a lot of the work of creating demands for a skilled net zero workforce, but the market also needs help to plug gaps to ensure the right qualifications are in the right place. Unfortunately, education settings are not quite there yet. They need more support to deliver courses and qualifications. My right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) made a few points about what we are missing. Only 5% of mechanics know how to fix an electric car. In 2019, only 3,500 workers could install energy-efficient measures. It is estimated that we will need an additional 20,000 engineering graduates a year.

In Stroud, a combination of businesses—Active Building Centre, South Gloucestershire and Stroud College, The Green Register—have come together. We recognise there is a lack of standardisation in qualifications, and a lack of understanding and confidence on the part of the public around being able to hire people who know what is best for their homes and next steps. If we do not grasp this issue, we will not provide that confidence to the public and to the tradespeople who want to retrain and reskill. They will not invest in a course if they do not think it will be important next year and the year after. They want guidance from the Government and they need to know that the public will believe in it. I fear that if we do not do that, we will end up with cowboys in the market or people not taking the actions we know they need.

It is not just my amazing Stroud experts who talk to me about this issue all the time, but small, medium and big companies. I have had some good conversations with SSE, which was one of the first companies in the world to publish a just transition strategy. It sets out a number of principles for supporting the transition to net zero in a socially just and fair way. Key principles for green jobs and skills include guaranteeing fair and decent work, and attracting and growing talent. It has created principles for action and I urge the Department to look at them if it has not already done so. I believe the example recommendations for the Government fit very neatly into what we think could be a green skills strategy by the Department for Education, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Government as a whole.

Arguably, the Government do not need to wait for Back-Bench MPs to agitate for a green skills strategy and nor does it really need to be in legislation. My hon. Friend the Minister can agree to create a green skills strategy, or get his bosses to do so, and set out a plan to support people to attain education that creates the support and meets environmental goals. I therefore urge the Education team to work with us those of us on the Back Benches to do that work and support the plans. We can certainly bring some fantastic examples to make that a reality.

Very briefly, in conjunction with my local further education college, South Gloucestershire and Stroud College, which the Minister very kindly came to visit, I support new clauses 2 and 7, which put the lifetime skills guarantee on a statutory footing and extend it to level 3 courses, so that those without A-level or equivalent qualifications will still benefit from fully funded courses. I believe that the college spoke to the Minister about that when he was with us. I also support new clause 5, on reforming benefit entitlement rules, so that people on benefits can still attend college while unemployed without losing out. However, I am very grateful for the passage of the Bill at pace.