Oral Answers to Questions

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Tuesday 11th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I am a strong supporter of the proposed sector deal, and in the draft tariff schedule that was published particular attention was given to the strong representations of the ceramics industry.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have been inundated with complaints from local residents about a second-hand car sales company in my community that variously goes by the names BD Trade Sales, Leabridge Motors, Diamond Motors and many more. Members may be aware of its work from programmes such as “Rogue Traders”, “Don’t Get Done, Get Dom”, “Watchdog” and “The Sheriffs Are Coming”. Despite the evidence about how it is ripping off consumers, the council, trading standards and the police have not been able to stop it. Will the Minister meet me to talk about what we can do to hold these phoenix companies to account, so that we get dodgy cars off the roads and get consumers a better deal?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s offer to meet me to discuss this issue, which I am keen to do. I hope that when we are in a position to make announcements in the consumer White Paper, we will be able to do exactly that—tackle some of the consumer detriment that we see across the country. I look forward to meeting her to discuss that.

Climate Action and Extinction Rebellion

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I think that this debate is about consumption emissions. I will not take the House through the technicalities, but essentially there is an argument that we have exported much of our heavy energy-creating activities. It is also the case, as people will see if they peruse the base numbers, that our consumption emissions are down by 20% since, I believe, 1997. I will check those facts before the next statement. The whole world’s economic systems are changing. That is why the leadership that we display will help other countries to which much of this activity has been transferred also to make these changes—in particular, to have a low-carbon electricity system as this is often the greatest cause of emissions in those countries.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister put her finger on it when she said that this is going to be about some tough decisions. She expressed concern about describing this as a climate emergency because what she really wanted to do was to move the dial. Ireland has been able to move the dial not by leaving the public out on the streets but by bringing them into a citizens’ assembly—a proper citizens’ assembly that hears the views not just of the activists but of everyone. That has supported carbon taxes and an end to subsidies for peat extraction, meaning that Ireland is now the first country to divest from fossil fuel. Will the Minister meet me and others who are supportive of the idea of a citizens’ assembly to talk about whether that is the cross-party, cross-country way forward by which we can actually tackle this climate emergency?

[Claire Perry]

With pleasure. I point out to the hon. Lady that we already have a carbon tax. We introduced a unilateral tax on carbon emissions, which is what has driven us off coal. She does not seem to realise what an achievement that is. When she and I were elected, 40% of our electricity system was coal-based. Of course I will meet her, but let us look at what has worked and see how we can do more of that.

Ending Seasonal Changes of Time (Reasoned Opinion)

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Monday 12th November 2018 General Committees

[Kelly Tolhurst]

That is why we are having this debate. The United Kingdom is working with member states in the negotiations, and others have joined us in opposing the proposal. Some member states have yet to give their firm position on whether they will accept the proposal. Responsibility for the time zone is, of course, reserved to Great Britain. If we ever needed to change the clocks, we would, obviously, consult widely within the United Kingdom before making any decision.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister says that the Government are working with other member states to block the proposal but, further to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West, what will the plan of action be if they are not successful in doing so?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

The Government’s course of action at the moment is to be successful—we are still hopeful that we will be able to block the proposal, thanks to what I have outlined in my statement—but if not, we would work with the devolved administrations and would consult widely. One of the reasons for our objection is the timeframe, which is very short, and other member states have said that other elements are completely unworkable. We have support from different member states and they share some of our concerns.

[Kelly Tolhurst]

As hon. Members will know, during the second world war, we had GMT plus two hours at one point, before that changed in 1968 to 1971, and again in 1972. I take the hon. Gentleman’s point; many Members of Parliament and other bodies have suggested that a change in the time zone could have an impact on road safety. Currently, we are not consulting within the UK on whether to change the clocks; we are working with other EU member states to block the proposal, full stop.

[Stella Creasy]

It would help to understand what the Minister’s plans are to alert the public, should she be unsuccessful in blocking the proposal. Could she tell us a little bit about what work has been done? For example, there is a very real risk that if she is not successful, the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland could face different time zones across that border. What work has she done to alert people to that consequence, given the short timetable that she has set out?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

First, it is not the timetable I have set out, but the European Commission’s timetable. Fundamentally, that is one of the reasons we object to the proposal, because we do not feel the timeframe is workable. That is obviously backed up by other member states. I have written to the devolved Administrations to get their position. Given the short timeframe, we need to work. It has been accepted by many that a delay of two years would be preferable for member states to do the necessary consultation to implement any potential new directive that comes from the European Union. At that time, once a decision is made, we will look to ensure that we communicate with people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stella Creasy]

The Minister says she has written to the devolved Administrations as the means by which she is alerting the public in Northern Ireland and Ireland about these issues. Obviously, the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland does not exist at the moment; this House has just passed legislation to give powers to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to issue guidance. Can the Minister tell us what guidance the Secretary of State has issued to the Northern Ireland civil servants on this matter?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

On specific guidance, as I have already said, at this moment we have alerted devolved Administrations to this proposal. We are working to block the proposal and a decision on guidance has yet to be made. I have written to the devolved Administrations to ask for their opinions; I have not issued any guidance.

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I agree that this House should decide whether we are to change our clocks. That is why the Government’s position is that, as it stands, we have no plans to change the clocks for summertime. That is why we are working with other member states to try to effectively block this proposal in the European Commission.

[Stella Creasy]

I am sorry to press the Minister further, but obviously there is no devolved Administration in Northern Ireland at this moment. She says she has written to the devolved Administrations, but when it comes to the question of a different time zone across the Irish and Northern Irish border, will she clarify who she has written to? Given that the Secretary of State can now issue guidance to civil servants in Northern Ireland about what to do, is the Minister confirming that that has not actually happened yet?

[Kelly Tolhurst]

As I have said, there is not yet something to issue guidance on, because a decision has not yet been taken. With regard to the matter of time zones and Northern Ireland, the hon. Lady is quite right that there is no functioning Executive in Northern Ireland, but the time zone is actually a function for Great Britain; it is something that we have here in Westminster. I have written to the other devolved Administrations to ask their opinion; of course, any particular time difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland going forward would be something that we would be addressing as these talks progress. As I have told the hon. Lady categorically, I have issued no guidance to Northern Ireland.

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[The Chair]

Let me point out that we are not engaged in a debate at this stage. That comes later; we are still in questions to the Minister.

[Stella Creasy]

Given what the Minister has just told us, can she confirm whom she has written to in Northern Ireland, and when and how she intends to tell the people of Northern Ireland, given that there is not a devolved Administration at present to talk to, about the possibility of this happening?

[The Chair]

I should just point out that we are not supposed to repeatedly ask the same question. I shall invite the Minister to respond, but I would ask hon. Members to bear in mind that we do not repeatedly put the same question.

Office for Students: Appointment

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Monday 8th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Joseph Johnson]

Mr Young does important work on the Fulbright Commission. He is a commissioner and has been reappointed to that role as a result of the good work he has done. That carries on. As I said earlier, Sir Nigel Sheinwald, the chair of the Fulbright Commission, has described Mr Young as an effective, committed and energetic commissioner and seen no evidence that the historic remarks—going back many years—have influenced him in discharging his duties responsibly on behalf of disadvantaged young people. He does very good work in promoting social mobility through the Fulbright Commission’s work with the Sutton Trust and other organisations.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister asks us to judge Mr Young by what he does. As one of the many women who have had personal, repeated and recent experiences of his ability to lose friends and alienate people, I say to the Minister that an undergraduate student would know that it is not evidence enough of a change in behaviour for someone simply—when they have been caught out—to say sorry. Every educationist would say to the Minister that rewarding bad behaviour, as he is, sends a terrible message to our universities about the standards we accept. What more does Mr Young have to say before the Minister realises that he deserves to stay on Twitter, not in teaching?

[Joseph Johnson]

Since Mr Young made many of these comments and wrote these articles—which, in most cases, predate 2010—he has been appointed to the Fulbright Commission, he has been reappointed to the Fulbright Commission, he has been made director of a leading education charity and he has done important work setting up schools in west London that are delivering great outcomes for young people. That is what we should judge him by, not foolish and obnoxious tweets from the distant past.

Budget Resolutions

Stella Creasy Excerpts

1st reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 28th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is always interesting to follow the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden), who makes a wonderful case for why this country needs not just an Opposition, but an alternative. Let us give him that alternative today. It was a privilege to attend this morning’s commendation service for my local police. I heard extraordinary stories of police constables and their bravery, but those PCs are facing an uncertain future. That is the test for this Budget. How did we get to a place where people who have tackled rapists, run into burning buildings and taken countless criminals off our streets face potential redundancy, while the Government are throwing billions of pounds into the mess that Brexit is creating?

This Budget speaks volumes not only about this Government’s priorities, but their performance. After seven years, the Chancellor boasted of “peaking” the debt, when they said that they would balance the books. Another year or more has been added to the austerity timetable. Our constituents yet again face wage stagnation. Our public services have been cut to the bone. Universal credit has been made more complicated to administer and more difficult for people to understand. The stamp duty exemption will push up prices and do nothing for the millions of people with no deposit who are renting. Personal debt is at record levels. Home ownership is at a 30-year low, yet one in 10 people now have a second home—it is all right for some, but not enough. Growth has slowed. Inflation is rising. Our teachers are buying basic supplies for their schools. Our nurses cannot afford to feed themselves.

The most terrible travesty of this Budget is that there is money to be raised. Buried away is the Government’s agreement to close the tax loophole on commercial property sales for foreign companies. I welcome that U-turn. Britain desperately needs that magic money tree. However, it is indicative of this Government’s capability that they cannot even get that right. They think that they will raise only half a billion pounds a year, when they should be raising £6 billion a year.

This debate is about productivity. I am worried about the productivity of our Ministers. I was deeply disappointed by the Government’s response to my parliamentary questions and their belief that double taxation treaties mean that the tax would be paid. They do not seem to understand that the Luxembourg treaties will override that and that many real estate companies are based in Luxembourg, so will be exempt from this very tax and from our magic money tree, as will anybody who acquires new real estate and puts it in a Luxembourg holding company before the rule comes into force.

Those are not new problems, but I put them on the record because, clearly, the Ministers with responsibility for HMRC have not even bothered to read the Paradise papers, which set out such deals in great detail. It is little wonder that this Government do not really care about evidence or data and do not want to know the real impact of their policies on the people they represent.

There is clear and explicit evidence of the link between gender equality and global competitiveness. Productivity is a massive challenge in our economy, yet this Government have absolutely no interest in understanding the impact of their policies on addressing inequality.

In the time left to me, I put the Government on notice. As a country, we cannot afford for them to ignore these matters any more, just as they have failed to get to grips with Brexit, failed to deal properly with tax loopholes and failed to pay our public sector workers properly. The Opposition refuse to let the Government’s poor performance, poor priorities and, indeed, poor people skills condemn the future of this country. They say this Budget is about being fit for the future, but they are not fit for office and it is time they left.

Taylor Review: Working Practices

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I commend my hon. Friend for bringing that important fact to the notice of the House.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister promoting this Marxist revolution that we are now living through, as the means of production are increasingly in the hands of the workers. Further to what she has just said, does she agree that the answer to some of the challenges is not just better regulations, but helping people to organise? If so, will she meet me, the Community trade union, the co-op movement and Indycube to discuss our work helping the self-employed to organise and unionise?

[Margot James]

I am aware of the independent union of self-employed workers; it has been a force and has contributed to the inquiry. However, I will be only too pleased to meet the hon. Lady and her Community organisers as part of my consultation.

Post Office Closures

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Tuesday 25th April 2017 Westminster Hall

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Today’s debate is not about being against change. Those of us who have concerns recognise that the world is a very different place. I will wager there is nobody here who managed to do a degree with the help of Wikipedia. Indeed, some of us have jumpers older than the internet. [Interruption.] I have to say I have seen them on the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith). However, the question is about what drives the changes. Opposition Members are concerned that changes driven by the market alone rarely deliver the best outcomes for the public and often end up hitting the poorest hardest. Of the changes and closures that we have seen in the past couple of years, 40% have been in poor urban communities such as my own. Indeed, under the latest proposal, two post offices in Walthamstow are threatened.

In the short time available, I want to flag up a couple of points with the Minister. First and foremost, closures are not happening in a vacuum, but against a backdrop of bank closures, as many of my colleagues have said. I caution the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) because, with the closure of banks and the services that post offices provide, it is simply not the same for residents. They might be able to get cash out or do a balance enquiry, but they can do precious little else. That matters in communities such as mine.

I disagree with the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), who said he is happy to see franchises with anybody and everybody. I am not sure we want shots with our stamps, and I am certainly concerned about the evidence that services have deteriorated in franchises with WH Smith, particularly in terms of disabled access and queue times.

[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I am concerned that I have been unable to get any figures on profitability for the New Cross Gate post office. The Minister needs to ensure that we get that information.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stella Creasy]

I complete agree. For those of us facing closures such as those in Walthamstow and on Lea Bridge Road—our main post office is in Walthamstow—the question is the alternative future. What could make them sustainable, not as white elephants in the provision of public services locally, but as jewels in the crown? For me, that comes with the role of financial services, particularly the missed opportunities with the link-up that could happen with organisations such as credit unions. I know that some Government Members did not think DWP services should be part of our post office system, but there is an opportunity when it comes to financial services.

We know that under-banking is still a major problem in this country. Some 2 million people have no access to a bank account, including 8% of all 18 to 19-year-olds. We know there is rising debt in our communities. We see it in our surgeries. In London alone, we see people who have too much month for their money and there are big increases in consumer borrowing, so the credit union is never more needed. It is a missed opportunity. I want to hear the Minister tell us why in six years of the Government talking about working with credit unions, we have not seen a link-up with post offices. We know that the trade unions, which have done fantastic work uncovering the impact of the closures on communities such as mine, would support such work. In my local area, the Government have not even asked the credit union whether they could work together, and they are talking about closing two local post offices. They now say the consultation is over and it is too late to start that conversation.

We must not lose the opportunity to build the financial inclusion that all of our communities need by bringing those two communities together. As the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham has pointed out, there is a very different future for post offices in France, rooted in those financial inclusion services. What is the Minister doing to bring credit unions, not Jägermeisters, into our post offices, to give them a properly sustainable future that will serve everyone in our communities?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stella Creasy]

They are not.

[Margot James]

They are. I will write to the hon. Lady, if I am returned, and tell her what the Post Office plans on credit unions are.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

Okay, but I am not going to fill it with interventions; I am going to carry on.

Hon. Members have said that post offices do not have click and collect services, but I want to reassure them that there are 10,500 local post offices that do provide those services. That is another area of potential growth. I invite Members to write to me if their constituency branches do not have them; we will look into it. As to the allegation about hours being reduced in convenience stores, I am pleased to confirm that that is not the case. Opening hours are not decreasing in the fullness of time.

[Stella Creasy]

The Minister has just told the House that the Post Office is working with credit unions, but that is not what they tell us; they say that they are open to doing so, but that nothing has happened in the past five years. The Opposition are all talking about financial inclusion; will the Minister commit to revisiting the issue and actively working with alternative providers who will deliver?

[Margot James]

The Post Office does work with credit unions where it can, but there is a common link through the Co-op in some transactions. The difficulty has been—and as the hon. Lady is an expert on credit unions perhaps she can help us to solve the problem—not having a common banking platform. When a common banking platform has been developed, further inter-working with credit unions should be possible. We take financial inclusion seriously.

I want to talk a little more about banking; I think that my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham is happy for me to continue.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

DRAFT National Minimum Wage (Amendment) REGULATIONS 2017

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2017 General Committees

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alan.

We will not oppose the statutory instrument, but it is important that we set out our concerns, including that the proposals do not match the necessary ambition, given the still severe and growing problem of low pay in our country. I was a founder member of the drive for the living wage back in 2002 and 2003, with TELCO—the East London Communities Organisation, which is now called the East London Citizens Organisation. As the head of the Transport and General Workers Union organising department, I helped to organise a campaign to win the then living wage for 4,000 cleaners in Canary Wharf and the City of London, thereby combating the obscenity of those who cleaned the boardrooms and the toilets of bankers earning millions being paid the minimum wage, often with minimum conditions of employment. After that, we organised the cleaners in the House of Commons. Some here will remember the first ever strike in the history of the House of Commons, which I was privileged to organise, to win the living wage for the House of Commons cleaners. It was wrong that those who cleaned this, the mother of Parliaments, should be on the minimum wage.

I have always taken the view that the case for the living wage is a moral case, but it is much more than that. The evidence is that the living wage is good for the worker—of course—and good for the worker’s family, because they typically do not have to do two or three jobs to make ends meet, often not seeing their kids from one day to the next. It is good for the employer, because the evidence is that it contributes to reducing turnover of labour on the one hand and promotes security, flexibility and co-operation on the other. It is good for the local economy, because someone on the living wage typically does not salt their money away in Swiss banks but spends it in the local community; and it is good for the national economy, because the workers concerned pay more in tax and claim less in benefits. The living wage is therefore good for Britain.

We have made real progress in this country. I am proud to say that in the city I represent, Birmingham, the very first action of the incoming Labour council in 2012 was to introduce the living wage for all its employees and then in the schools, and now we have dozens of private sector employers who pay the real living wage, including National Express and its 3,000 employees.

I am bound to say this, Sir Alan, but historically—this does not include the Minister here today—the Conservative party strongly opposed the measures for which we fought for many years, including the introduction of the national minimum wage. Indeed, the current Prime Minister is on record making colourful contributions at various times against the notion of a national minimum wage, in favour once it was introduced of a lower national minimum wage, and in favour of a series of geographical opt-outs from the national minimum wage. However, none other than Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, on the great day of St Joseph the Worker’s mass in Westminster Cathedral, addressed a rally afterwards and urged employers and those of all political parties to embrace the living wage, saying that, if they do, in the spirit of the Catholic Church, those who repent shall be forgiven. If the Conservative party has repented of its resolute opposition to the then national minimum wage, that is to be welcomed.

Having said all that, the Government are seeking to hijack the language of the living wage when it is no such thing. It is not a real living wage, as the highly respected Living Wage Foundation has established with the evidence it adduced in favour of £9.75 in London and £8.45 outside London.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

As my hon. Friend mentioned, east London, an area that I am proud to represent, was the birthplace of the living wage movement. Should we not judge this statutory instrument and the concerns that Conservative Members may put forward against the fact that, in this day and age, even in my part of town, 36% of people are paid below the living wage? The Government might talk about a living wage, but perhaps we ought to call in trading standards.

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[Stella Creasy]

I rise to ask a simple question of the Minister that seems to be at the heart of this statutory instrument. What difference does £2 make? That is the difference between what is being proposed and what a living wage actually is. I want to tell the Minister why that £2 makes all the difference to the communities we represent.

We are now living in a country where real wages are still, on average, below what they were a decade ago. It is not only a problem in the metropolitan, gold-plated streets of London, where 60% of our children are living in households that are in poverty. Across our country, whether in Portsmouth, Aldershot, Aberavon, Pontypridd or Bristol, there are families for whom £2 an hour would make all the difference to their problems.

We face a very simple challenge as a country: wages have not kept up with prices. There is too much month left at the end of people’s money. For the families on low wages that the statutory instrument will affect, this kind of change makes all the difference, because it does not include that extra two quid. Young people are cruelly discriminated against by our legislation. I wholeheartedly concur with the hon. Member from Scotland, whose constituency evades me; I am sure it is a wonderful place.

[Neil Gray]

Airdrie and Shotts.

[Stella Creasy]

Exactly. It is completely inconceivable that age rather than proficiency should define someone’s employability.

There is an issue for us here about whether the statutory instrument will help Britain. We have to acknowledge a word that seems to be missing from the Government’s vocabulary but will in fact define these issues: Brexit. Our economic position is so uncertain. The chances are that inflation will continue to rise; that is clear to the Opposition. The question of what difference £2 makes will be all the more important in the years ahead that the legislation provides for.

In 4 million households in this country people are in work but in poverty. The point behind the living wage campaign, which I am so proud to have been a small part of in my part of town in east London, where all the best things come from—I will fight you all for that—is that it is not simply about living to work or working to live, but living a life worth living. That is why having a living wage makes a difference. This is about the cost of living. Just as inflation has risen and wages have not—for the first time wages have not kept up with growth in our country—so the costs of living are extraordinary.

I have the dubious distinction of representing the part of the country with the most estate agents per square mile. My part of town has had the highest rise in house prices of any part of the country. The Minister looks shocked, but Kirstie and Phil are the harbingers of doom for many people in my community because the cost of living, which their wages have to cover, is going up and up. That is why having a real living wage matters. Not having one means that we as a society have to deal with the consequences in a number of ways. We have to try to help people cover the cost of living, keep a roof over their head, feed their kids, put money in their electricity meter and take their kids to school. We also have to deal with the consequences of debt that we are now seeing in our country.

I look at these proposals in the context of the impact: 24% of people in this country now have mental health issues because of their personal finances and 41% of families are worried about their debt and whether their wages are going to cover such costs. One in six of those people is worried because they have borrowed money from a family friend or member. There are real human consequences to not having a real, genuine living wage: families are torn apart.

[Owen Smith]

I am sure my hon. Friend was about to come on to this. She is making a powerful speech and a powerful point about private debt in this country, but was she as gobsmacked as me during the Budget to see that public debt is now scheduled to go up to £1.9 trillion by the end of the spending period? That is a 150% increase in our public debt since the Tories came to power. Does she think for a moment that they can ever again use the line about not saddling our children with debt when they have saddled this country with such debt?

[Stella Creasy]

I was very taken with the point that my hon. Friend made about these regulations in his speech. If the financial director of a company came to their board seven years in a row having got their sums wrong, we would expect somebody to get the sack. The Chancellor and the Prime Minister certainly bear some responsibility for this.

We know that the Government expect private debt to pay the cost of that public debt, so the people who are on low wages and are going to get into more debt because we are not paying them the living wage are the very people who are going to pick up the tab for the debt that my hon. Friend describes. I want to understand why the Minister thinks we should celebrate at this point in time when we see that personal debt is rising.

People are struggling. The 36% of people in my community who are paid less than the living wage need that extra £2. We need them to earn that extra £2 so we do not have to pick up the cost, not just because we are going to face a very expensive bill for Brexit and because of the way in which the Government are managing the public finances but because of the human cost and the effect on talent and creativity. We know that families with children living in poverty struggle harder to achieve. We know that the next generation needs a better shot than the current generation if it is to contribute to the global land of milk and honey that Brexit will deliver for us. We know, therefore, that it is not enough to claim that this is a living wage. Call it a minimum wage. It is wonderful that there has been a damascene conversion to the idea that this is of economic and social benefit, but do not call it a living wage when so many people are not able to live on it.

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[Owen Smith]

rose—

[Stella Creasy]

rose—

[Margot James]

I will give way to the hon. Lady.

[Stella Creasy]

I thank the Minister for giving way. Does she recognise that there is also quite a bit of evidence, given that growth is increasing, that companies are making profits? So what we are seeing now is employers not passing on the benefits of the productivity of employees to the people helping them to make that money. That disconnection between wages and growth is really troubling.

[Margot James]

I am glad that the hon. Lady concedes that the economy is in good shape and that it is indeed growing; I agree with her on that. I am also heartened by the fact that lots of employers are paying people more. In fact, the recent evidence about the national minimum wage is that it has not only protected the wages—the living wage—of people over the age of 25 but hauled the average wages of people younger than that up in its wake. That is because some employers who can afford it accept the point made by the hon. Lady earlier, namely that if they can afford to pay younger people more, they would rather have parity—

Draft Important Public Services (Health) Regulations 2017 Draft Important Public Services (Border Security) Regulations 2017 Draft Important Public Services (Fire) Regulations 2017

Stella Creasy Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2017 General Committees

[Margot James]

I think I have already explained that, but if the hon. Gentleman requires me to restate it, we are seeking to rebalance the rights of those workers to strike with the rights of the public, particularly in the case he mentioned. For patients facing critical illness or emergencies, those two rights have to be balanced, and that is what the legislation is all about.

In the Border Force, we are addressing the significant risks to public safety in the event of disruption to border controls. We have focused on services in respect of the entry and exit of people and goods, as those are central to the carrying out of checks and to preventing illicit commodities and other threats to our security from entering the country.

Members of the public will agree that strikes in those important public services should take place only when there is a strong level of support and a justifiable mandate. I hope I have reassured Members that the regulations are justified and proportionate to our objective.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister talks about balancing the rights of the public against the rights of people in employment to withhold their labour. Over the past decade, we have seen a decline in the number of days taken in industrial action. None of these powers has been necessary. Before she finishes, will she tell us what assessment the Government have made of whether there are alternative, more constructive ways of resolving their concerns, which do not restrict people’s right to withhold their labour when they feel under pressure?

[Margot James]

I will deal with the hon. Lady’s points in this way. Working days lost vary from year to year. For example, 170,000 working days were lost to industrial action during 177 stoppages in 2015. That number was less than some recent years and more than others, but I think most people would agree that that is a significant amount of time lost to strikes. The point is that this measure is not at all designed to attack a person’s right to strike. It is designed to ensure that, when the right to strike is exercised, it has a strong and democratic mandate from the people who vote for strike action.

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[Gill Furniss (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey. As the Minister outlined, the Trade Union Act 2016 introduced a requirement that at least 50% of eligible union members must vote in an industrial action ballot for it to be lawful. In addition, union members in sectors that the Government define as providing “important public services” will be subject to the requirement that any ballot for industrial action must achieve a 40% threshold of support.

Five sets of draft regulations determine the sectors covered by that additional 40% restriction. Today we considering the health sector, namely emergency, urgent and critical healthcare services; fire and firefighting services, including the co-ordination of emergency response; and border security and border functions for the control of entry and exit of people and goods into and from the UK.

I will not overly repeat the many issues that the Opposition have with the Trade Union Act as a whole and with these specific regulations, because I spoke to them at length yesterday when we considered their application to the education and transport sectors. However, it is important to reiterate that the regulations on voting thresholds for certain groups must be seen in the wider context of the Trade Union Act, which is a broad assault on working people and the right to strike.

The Government claim that, by imposing additional regulations on certain groups, industrial action is made more democratic and accountable. If they are so concerned about the democratic ability of unions, why did they delay and frustrate the implementation of electronic balloting for union members? I remember from yesterday’s debate that the Minister told us that e-balloting is under review. She initially said that the review would be published later this year, but then said that it would be published “soon”. I would like to know the answer today. I am pleased to hear that there may yet be progress on this initiative, but I think that it betrays the Government’s real motivations, which are to hamper the ability of working people to bargain collectively.

When strike action in the UK is already at an all-time low, and trade unions already take great care to maintain a level of essential service, loading an incredibly highly restrictive set of activities with further red tape is clearly ideologically motivated, and that is not good for governance.

[Stella Creasy]

It is unusual and telling that such a restriction is being brought in. I know that the “r” word referendum is not a popular one in this House with many people, but were we to impose such a threshold on referendums, or indeed on general elections, I am sure that there would be debates about that. No such arguments have been made, yet when it comes to people’s working rights, somehow the Government feel that such measures are entirely appropriate. What does my hon. Friend think that says about their approach to democracy and genuine engagement with people?

[Gill Furniss]

That is a very good point and we should all think about it.

The Government’s actual intention in introducing the regulations, which they expressed in their impact assessment of the Trade Union Act, is to reduce number of days lost to strikes by two thirds. However, Office for National Statistics figures show that, in 2015, fewer working days were lost to strikes—it is the second-lowest annual total since records began in 1891.

We in Labour believe that the right to strike is a fundamental human right that should be applied equally to all workers. The International Labour Organisation’s Labour Relations (Public Service) Convention 151 also provides that public servants must enjoy the same political and civil rights as other employees. The regulations clearly fly in the face of that convention.

Midwifery staff in hospitals would be affected by these regulations. Yesterday, I quoted Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the Royal College of Midwives, who wrote shortly after the first ever strike by the RCM since its foundation in 1881. She said that

“women needing urgent and emergency maternity care were getting it because midwives had sat down with management in advance of the day to ensure that a safe service would still be running, staffed by midwives, regardless of the strike.”

The new laws are unnecessary. They undermine the right to strike and are unlikely to be effective and the Government are dragging their feet on measures that would actually improve union democracy. I am very tested by the fact that we will still have to wait for the introduction of e-balloting. A lot of good points about people’s rights to withdraw their labour were made in yesterday’s debate, and about that being fundamental for working people. Above all, I want to reiterate the damage the measure could do to industrial relations in those areas of work. Rather than things becoming more democratic, with more people allowed to participate, there will be more union officials running about trying to get the numbers rather than talking and seeking compromise or whatever results we try to get in industrial relations negotiations.

I repeat that I will not support the measure. I should like an answer on e-balloting and want the Minister to take on board the fact that we already have evidence that striking is a last resort. Strikes happen when agreement cannot be reached. We already have evidence that the services we are discussing today will always ensure that the public are not unduly affected by their strike action.

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[Adam Afriyie]

I do not know the figures for how many came out on strike, but I know that 22% expressed the desire to strike, which means that the overwhelming majority did not. The question at that point is whether it is right that one in four or one in five people can force a strike on others while disrupting people’s education and the entire education system for a time.

[Stella Creasy]

Hon. Members appreciate that policy based on evidence is helpful. The impact assessment states clearly that there are number of sectors where it may be difficult to ascertain what 40% is, and therefore where the policy can be implemented. Does the hon. Gentleman have any concerns about that? The evidence is on the Table, and I am happy to get him a copy. It is clearly set out on page 36 that there may be problems in some units as to what the 40% threshold is—[Interruption.] We all know that the former Education Secretary is a proud defender of experts and the importance of data. I do not know why Members laugh at that.

On the point about restrictions on people, if it is not clear who might be affected, is the hon. Member for Windsor concerned that there might be an unnecessary effect on people’s basic human right to withdraw their labour when they are put in conditions they consider unacceptable?

[Adam Afriyie]

There are always grey areas and challenges. I have looked closely at the impact statement. The number of days lost to strikes in this country is amazing—that is on page 29, and even Border Force is there. In 2014, 2,985 days were lost to strikes. Despite some concerns about the edges of the regulations, it is right that those who want to strike, and unions wanting to try to force a strike, should reach a threshold. I am sure that the hon. Lady’s concerns will be addressed in time, given that I am sure trade unions will consider how they can carefully register voters and ensure that all members can vote in the ballot.

I wanted only to say one or two sentences, so I shall continue. It is a question of balancing workers’ rights to withdraw labour—trade unionism is a great movement that I have always supported—and people’s right to use public services and avoid risks to life. The important aspect of the regulations is that the provisions step across into the private sector. When the private sector provides services to public services and important services in the economy, it is caught by the regulations. That important point was made from the Opposition Benches a few moments ago.

In the context of the regulations, I urge the Minister to look a bit further afield. Let us look at all infrastructure. Today, with digital infrastructure, and with people’s alarms system connected and with tele-medicine and telehealth, there are important health and security industries that have an impact on people’s healthcare—and, dare I say, border security issues—but which would not automatically be seen as important sectors in the economy. My question for the Minister is whether the Trade Union Act 2016 gives scope to add further functions or job descriptions to those we are tackling today, in terms of increasing the low thresholds for strike ballots.

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[Chris Stephens]

No, the point is the trend of the Government, who say one thing and do completely another thing. I remember writing an article in the Morning Star, with which the hon. Gentleman may be familiar, in which I described being in this place and the arguments being presented by the Government as “bizarre”, “surreal” and “Orwellian”, and I think we have seen evidence of that today. This is a general problem, because the Government are suggesting that they wish to protect workers’ rights, but what we see with the Trade Union Act 2016 and now these regulations is an entirely different matter.

[Stella Creasy]

I am not a regular reader of the Morning Star, because I prefer fact to fiction. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that as Government Members have already suggested that they would like to extend the 40% threshold to other industries but cannot clarify what the bargaining units might be, or whether they have considered other proportionate ways to resolve industrial disputes so that people’s rights are not curtailed, and given that we have no guarantees that any of the legislation on employment rights that they claim they will bring back from Europe will remain in UK legislation, this is a very worrying time for working people? That is why these regulations should be treated with extreme caution.

[Chris Stephens]

I agree. The point is well made, and there is a distinction that must be made clear. The Government always seem confused in these debates, and about trade unionism in general, because they seem to think that after a ballot result is announced, whether the turnout is low or not, trade union activists, including full-time officials, develop Jedi-like powers to persuade other workers. It is as if the trade union officials wave a hand and say, “This is the strike you are looking for.” That is not what happens in trade union organised workplaces; I can say that as someone who was a trade union activist for 20 years before my election.

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[Stephen Timms]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; that is the normal practice. When opening the debate for the Opposition, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough gave the example of the Royal College of Midwives. I think I heard her correctly when she said that it recently had its first strike since its creation in 1880-something. Why on earth are we legislating to make it harder for them to strike in future? Unless we believe a huge zeal for industrial action that we have not seen in the past is about to hit us, why on earth are we legislating? I am genuinely puzzled.

[Stella Creasy]

I am in the odd position in which I agree with the evidence put forward by the former Education Secretary, the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath. He said that there has been a reduction in the number of strike days—although that is not because the legislation was introduced. One of the problems with the debate is that it almost sounds as though striking is the only things that unions do. Good employment relations help good organisations to thrive. Legislation such as this risks that relationship, which helps with so many issues, whether changes in the workplace or helping people with learning and development, being lost in the fog of this almost provocative attitude from the Government in saying that all trade unions want is to strike.

[Stephen Timms]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; that is exactly the danger that we face here. If there is evidence of a serious problem, or of x incidents of industrial action over the past three or five years that would have been avoided if the legislation had been on the statute book, will the Minister tell us what it is? If there is no such evidence, I hope the Committee will echo the natural reluctance to legislate often urged by Government Members and vote the regulation down.