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Adam Afriyie Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2017 General Committees

[Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con)]

I will just say a few words. I welcome the regulations, which are made under the Trade Union Act 2016, which passed through the House with a majority. We are talking about the right of people to live—to survive and live their daily lives—versus the right of a small group in a union to withdraw their labour. We all respect and value the trade union movement, as I have often said. However, there must be circumstances pertaining to important and essential public services when rights must be expressed with a clear voice, as opposed to what happens in instances such as the teachers’ strike in 2014, when just 22% voted to strike. There have been many occasions like that.

We must take heed of the sector we are talking about, and the impact on people’s right to enjoy their lives.

[Chris Stephens]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the teachers’ dispute, and claims that 22% voted in a particular way. Surely the education trade union involved must have made an assessment of whether enough people would take part in industrial action. Did 22% of teachers go out on strike, or more than that?

[Adam Afriyie]

I do not know the figures for how many came out on strike, but I know that 22% expressed the desire to strike, which means that the overwhelming majority did not. The question at that point is whether it is right that one in four or one in five people can force a strike on others while disrupting people’s education and the entire education system for a time.

[Stella Creasy]

Hon. Members appreciate that policy based on evidence is helpful. The impact assessment states clearly that there are number of sectors where it may be difficult to ascertain what 40% is, and therefore where the policy can be implemented. Does the hon. Gentleman have any concerns about that? The evidence is on the Table, and I am happy to get him a copy. It is clearly set out on page 36 that there may be problems in some units as to what the 40% threshold is—[Interruption.] We all know that the former Education Secretary is a proud defender of experts and the importance of data. I do not know why Members laugh at that.

On the point about restrictions on people, if it is not clear who might be affected, is the hon. Member for Windsor concerned that there might be an unnecessary effect on people’s basic human right to withdraw their labour when they are put in conditions they consider unacceptable?

[Adam Afriyie]

There are always grey areas and challenges. I have looked closely at the impact statement. The number of days lost to strikes in this country is amazing—that is on page 29, and even Border Force is there. In 2014, 2,985 days were lost to strikes. Despite some concerns about the edges of the regulations, it is right that those who want to strike, and unions wanting to try to force a strike, should reach a threshold. I am sure that the hon. Lady’s concerns will be addressed in time, given that I am sure trade unions will consider how they can carefully register voters and ensure that all members can vote in the ballot.

I wanted only to say one or two sentences, so I shall continue. It is a question of balancing workers’ rights to withdraw labour—trade unionism is a great movement that I have always supported—and people’s right to use public services and avoid risks to life. The important aspect of the regulations is that the provisions step across into the private sector. When the private sector provides services to public services and important services in the economy, it is caught by the regulations. That important point was made from the Opposition Benches a few moments ago.

In the context of the regulations, I urge the Minister to look a bit further afield. Let us look at all infrastructure. Today, with digital infrastructure, and with people’s alarms system connected and with tele-medicine and telehealth, there are important health and security industries that have an impact on people’s healthcare—and, dare I say, border security issues—but which would not automatically be seen as important sectors in the economy. My question for the Minister is whether the Trade Union Act 2016 gives scope to add further functions or job descriptions to those we are tackling today, in terms of increasing the low thresholds for strike ballots.

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[Chris Stephens]

I do not accept that distinction, because it is not quite compulsory—we are not in Australia, where everyone has to register and everyone has to vote. I do not accept the distinction, because an industrial action ballot with a 49% turnout could have wider support than one where turnout is over 50%, but the result is just a narrow win. It makes no sense in those circumstances to apply a threshold.

The difficulty we have on the Opposition Benches is that we are seeking assurances from the Government on workers’ rights as we exit the EU. These regulations do not fill those of us in the Opposition with confidence that workers’ rights will be safeguarded as we exit the European Union. There are a number of other difficulties, one of which relates to the question I asked the Minister.

[Adam Afriyie]

I am not sure I follow the hon. Gentleman’s point. Is he saying that the Trade Union Act 2016 was against European legislation? That is what he seems to be implying.

[Chris Stephens]

No, the point is the trend of the Government, who say one thing and do completely another thing. I remember writing an article in the Morning Star, with which the hon. Gentleman may be familiar, in which I described being in this place and the arguments being presented by the Government as “bizarre”, “surreal” and “Orwellian”, and I think we have seen evidence of that today. This is a general problem, because the Government are suggesting that they wish to protect workers’ rights, but what we see with the Trade Union Act 2016 and now these regulations is an entirely different matter.

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[Adam Afriyie]

I am listening closely to the right hon. Gentleman. Conservatives also have a great passion for democracy. It seems to me that this is not only about a worker’s right to withhold their labour; it is about a worker’s right to go to work and not be sacked if a small minority from a union have voted for a strike.

[Stephen Timms]

I hope the hon. Gentleman also shares a passion that many in the House have for freedom and for being reluctant to legislate to curtail people’s freedoms and rights. As parliamentarians we are obliged to protect the rights of individuals and to be extremely reluctant to legislate to reduce and curtail those rights. Sadly, that is exactly what we are being encouraged to do this afternoon.

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[Gill Furniss]

I would argue that trade unions are already under very strong measures and have to prove everything that they do. As my hon. Friends have already said, trade unions are not just about strikes—Conservative Members must get used to that—because that is the last resort of any workforce. They lose wages and their families go without food. Many, many years ago, we saw such long strikes, where workers struggled. It is a big struggle for many people and—

[Adam Afriyie]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Gill Furniss]

No, I will not. What most people want is meaningful negotiations, where they can get issues resolved, and that is what is wanted by the management of most organisations, and required by the workforce. We do not have workforces crying to go out on strike; we have workers who want to be respected, who have good working conditions and are not at the mercy of zero-hour contracts or having to have three jobs at once just to support themselves. If we provide good working arrangements for people that would eradicate strikes, would it not? However, there must always be a fundamental right to withhold one’s labour. That is the right of everyone wherever they are from.

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[Adam Afriyie]

I am finding it really hard to grasp why the hon. Lady would not wish to stand up for those people who are members of trade unions who are forced to go out on strike in effect or lose their union membership merely because a very small percentage of people vote to do so.

[Gill Furniss]

The point you make is a point I know you believe in, but it is about an individual’s democratic right to strike. The legislation that you have introduced and the lack of a decent impact assessment reveal no evidence of any ongoing problem. What grieves me is e-balloting, because it seems so unfair that the review of that proposal is sometime in the future. Surely it would have been natural justice to have had that review and the legislation running side by side so that at least unions could have organised properly and quickly to take on board likely future legislation. That is another example of the unfairness and confrontational nature of the regulations before us.