Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I raised with you yesterday in a point of order the amount of time that the House would have to debate the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill when there was a possibility of there being one statement today. We have now had two statements that have taken an hour and 10 minutes out of our time. Members will, I think, find it particularly galling that one of those statements is the result of the leak on damages settlements, on which we have just heard the Justice Secretary report to the House. In these circumstances, Mr Speaker, what protection can Members be offered so that we have the opportunity properly to debate and discuss a major constitutional Bill that will change the way in which our democracy operates?
Mr Speaker
I have heard what the right hon. Gentleman has said and I fully understand the seriousness of his point. The short answer, however, is that these decisions—that is to say, decisions on the timing of Government business—are ultimately for others to make. Specifically, these matters are in the hands of the usual channels and, in particular, of the Government. The right hon. Gentleman might wish that it were otherwise, and many might agree with him, but that is the position as it stands. However, I simply say to him, as I was able to say to him yesterday, that his opposite number, the Leader of the House, is present. He will have heard what has been said and it is open to the Leader of the House to respond if he so wishes.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It was not the practice of the previous Administration to add injury time when we debated constitutional Bills on the Floor of the House and it is not our habit either.
Mr Speaker
The exchange has taken place and we will have to leave it there for the time being.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to raise a subject at the heart of public debate to do with the credibility of Parliament and the honesty of Members of Parliament. You will know that the Deputy Prime Minister has made numerous statements on the need for openness, transparency, probity and honesty with the electorate. Yesterday, I wrote to the Deputy Prime Minister asking for a copy of the paper on tuition fees written for him by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on 16 March along with the paper by the Education Secretary on the same subject. Those papers are not Government publications but are public interest papers. Would you, Mr Speaker, be prepared to give the Library permission to hold those papers after I receive them?
Mr Speaker
I have listened carefully to what the right hon. Lady has said and I shall happily look into this matter for her and for the House. Ultimately, of course, the decision on which documents that are in the hands of members of the Government are published by the Government, including perhaps being put into the Library, is a matter for the Government. However, as I have said, I have heard what she has said, I shall look into it and I shall revert to her when I have done so.
We come now to the ten-minute rule Bill, for which the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (John Robertson) has been waiting very patiently.
Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. At business questions last week, I asked the Leader of the House whether it was the Government’s intention, when the House considers the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill tomorrow, to provide injury time if a statement were to be made. The Leader of the House replied that it was not the Government’s intention to do so. I have written to you about this, Mr Speaker. I understand that there is a possibility of a statement tomorrow. I do not know whether you have been given any indication of that, but given that on the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, there were clauses that we did not have the chance to reach, even with injury time, and given that the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill is an important constitutional Bill, it is important that the House has proper time, if there is to be a statement. Have you had an indication from the Leader of the House that he has had a rethink and wants to come back to the House and give a different answer?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the shadow Leader of the House for his point of order, and for giving me advance notice of it. Moreover, I have of course received the letter from the right hon. Gentleman of Friday 12 November. First, I have not received any indication, formal or informal, of a statement tomorrow. Sometimes by this point I would have done, but by no means always, so there may be a statement tomorrow or there may not be. I do not know.
Secondly, I think the right hon. Gentleman would testify and the record shows that where matters are within the gift of the Chair, the instinct of the Chair is always to facilitate full and thorough debate and analysis of all matters of policy and legislation. Sadly, in relation to a matter of this kind, the decision—no matter how worthy the cause—is not in the hands of the Chair. It is a matter for the business managers. However, my eye has alighted upon the Deputy Leader of the House. The Leader of the House is not present and therefore cannot respond. The Deputy Leader of the House is present and can, if he so wishes, offer a response to the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn). A simple nod or shake of the head will suffice.
Mr Heath
It is not the Government’s intention to provide extra time tomorrow on the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. It is the first day of Committee and there is at present no programme motion before the House for the conduct of business during that day, so I am confident that there will be plenty of time for the House to debate the important matters that will be put before it tomorrow.
Mr Speaker
The response of the Deputy Leader of the House has been noted and I am grateful to him for it.
Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that a few minutes ago, in the House of Lords, the motion to refer the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill to a Select Committee with regard to the possibility of hybridity was rejected in a vote, but I would be grateful if we could be informed whether, in this House, such a motion would be out of order on the grounds that the Bill did not affect a particular private interest. I would be grateful if we could have a note on that.
Mr Speaker
The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that that is not a matter for today. More fully, I think I know him well enough to know that he is unlikely to rest content with what I suppose he would judge to be a holding response. I have just a smidgen of a suspicion that it is a matter to which he will return on other occasions, and if he does, so will I. I hope that is helpful.
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise for not giving you advance notice of this. At the end of last week, some visitors came to visit me in Portcullis House and as part of the security process, their papers—the documents that they had brought with them—were scrutinised. To your knowledge, is this standard practice? Is it something that you would expect to happen when visitors come to the House of Commons?
Mr Speaker
I do not wish to be unkind or unhelpful to the hon. Gentleman, but the stock answer to such questions or attempted points of order is that we do not discuss security matters on the Floor of the House. However, if he wishes to pursue the matter with me in other ways, of course I am open to hearing from him and I will do my best to provide satisfaction.
Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I probably should have declared earlier that I used to work in an educational capacity as a lawyer. I have given up that profession, but I am grateful for the opportunity to correct the record.
Mr Speaker
That is a display of legendary courtesy on the part of the hon. Gentleman, and it would be an excellent thing if it were imitated in all parts of the House.
Business of the House
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. As usual, a very large number of hon. and right hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. We have two further important statements to follow, and a Backbench Business Committee debate that is heavily subscribed, so if I am to accommodate as many people as possible, brevity from those on the Back Benches and the Front Bench alike is required.
Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)
This House needs an emergency debate. What we saw happen yesterday was deplorable. We saw National Union of Students officials egging the crowd on, although today Aaron Porter, the president of the NUS, is attempting to remove himself from the situation. We need to know whether the police were incompetent or badly briefed. Yesterday somebody could very easily have died. The behaviour of the NUS officials and stewards on the ground was deplorable, and we need a debate in the Chamber to discuss that matter.
Mr Speaker
Order. The Leader of the House’s brevity now needs to be matched by that of Back Benchers.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Will the Leader of the House consider instituting an annual debate on the military covenant, which, may I suggest, could be held as near as possible to Remembrance day each year?
Sir George Young
I am delighted to see this item on the Order Paper. When I was in opposition, I advocated breaking the monopoly that Ministers have on making statements and allowing Select Committee Chairmen to present their reports on the Floor of the House. I am delighted to see that that recommendation is being carried forward and that there will be such a launch of a report later today. I am writing to the hon. Lady to ensure that we get the template and the Standing Orders right so that this exciting experiment can go from strength to strength.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the Leader of the House and to colleagues for their succinctness, which enabled everyone who wanted to contribute to have the chance to do so.
Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Following your reporting earlier of the certificate issued by the election court in the case involving the Oldham East and Saddleworth constituency, as the case raises important questions it would be sensible for the House to pause before considering a by-election writ, for two reasons.
First, the matter is the subject of continuing legal proceedings by Mr Woolas, as you reported to the House at 2.30, and it seems only proper that the proceedings are allowed to conclude. Secondly—without wishing to stray at all into the details of the case, which we should not do because, as you have ruled, it is sub judice under the terms of the resolution passed by the House in 2001—if the judgment were to be overturned and the former Member were reinstated, but in the meantime we had held a by-election and another Member had been elected, we could end up with two Members of Parliament for one constituency, and that would hardly be desirable.
It seems to me that the prudent and practical course of action is to allow the legal process to be concluded before the House considers the writ.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. He has made his points with great clarity.
The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker, and further to the statement that you made at 2.35, we on the Government Benches are content with the sequence of events that you outlined.
Mr Speaker
In a moment. Patience is a great virtue. I could not possibly miss the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. The House will have noted your most helpful statement concerning the finding of the court that the election result in Oldham East and Saddleworth was void. Will you confirm, for the benefit of the House, that that means that there is currently no Member elected here to serve the people of Oldham East and Saddleworth? What assurance can you give the House and the people of that constituency that they will not be denied indefinitely, by untested legal proceedings, the representation to which they are entitled?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman, for whose point of order I am grateful, essentially raises two points. The answer to his first point is yes, as indicated in my statement when I referred to the need for Mr Woolas to vacate his seat from the date of the report, 5 November 2010. The answer to his second point is that of course I attach a premium, as I am sure the House as a whole will attach a premium, to a speedy resolution of the matter in the interests of Parliament, in the interests of Oldham East and Saddleworth constituency electorate, and in the interests of the country.
It is precisely because I attach such a premium that I thought it would help the House if I caused inquiries to be made of the administrative court as to the urgency with which a judicial review application would be treated. Therefore, I reiterate both for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman and for all Members of the House that I did, indeed, cause such inquiries to be made, and I was advised that the administrative court judge has ordered an expedited hearing of the renewed application. He has done so precisely because he, too, considers it essential that the electorate of Oldham East and Saddleworth should know who is their Member of Parliament as soon as possible. I hope that is helpful to all with an interest in the matter.
Mr Leigh
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker, and on a more general point, without in any way attempting—because you would rule me out of order if I did attempt—to get into the rights or wrongs of the case, massive constitutional issues are raised by it, which the House should debate. This is the first time in 99 years that a Member has been evicted. It is for the people, not the judges, to evict Members of Parliament.
My worry is that if the judgment is allowed to stand, robust debate during elections will become virtually impossible. People will be terrified of attacking their opponents. For instance, what happens if a minor candidate for the BNP attacks a major party candidate? The latter would be frightened of attacking the former back because he might be disqualified. These are enormous constitutional issues, which we should discuss in the House.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I note his point. Tomorrow he will have served 27 years and five months in the House. Throughout that time he has expressed himself with great force and conviction, and today is no exception. We are grateful to him.
Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry that I did not catch your opening statement, but I have caught up with it since entering the Chamber. I in no way want to mention the details of the case, or defend or otherwise what is alleged, but, as you will no doubt know, the House has always been extremely reluctant to expel anyone. I know that this is not an expulsion made by a decision of this House, but the House has refused to expel Members over the years on the basis that this is not a club, despite what some people might say, and that if someone is elected it should be for the electorate to decide.
There is therefore bound to be concern about whether a court—judges—should decide, and not the electorate. From the moment I heard of the decision, I felt some concern and anxiety that the decision about whether the electorate wanted that particular Member to serve had been taken out of their hands and given to the judges. Therefore, as the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) said, the question does arise about whether in future circumstances an unsuccessful candidate will use any means to say in effect that what happened during the election was unfair, and to take the issue to the judges.
Mr Speaker
In so far as the latter part of the hon. Gentleman’s point of order appeared to be a question, I hope that he will understand if I say that I will treat it as a rhetorical question. He has essentially raised a point very similar to that of the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh), and done so in earnest. That is respected, but I do not think that I need to respond to it. It is on the record, and that is important.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The House will be aware that at the tail end of last week the Business Secretary referred the potential takeover of BSkyB to Ofcom. The reason most Members will be aware of that decision is that it was released to the media. Is it in order for that decision, although very welcome, not to be announced on the Floor of this House?
Mr Speaker
No breach of order has occurred is the straight answer to the hon. Gentleman, to whom I am nevertheless grateful for giving me notice of his point of order. He has put his point on the record. The Procedure Committee is examining the general issue of ministerial statements to the House, and I suggest that he write to the Committee with this example as evidence. He will also know that oral questions to the Department will be answered on Thursday week.
Business of the House
Ordered,
That, notwithstanding the practice of the House as to the intervals between stages of Bills brought in upon Ways and Means Resolutions, more than one stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill may be taken at any sitting of the House.—(Mr Heath.)
Business of the House
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. I assume that the hon. Lady was here at the start of the business statement?
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
I wish to return to the education maintenance allowance, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) mentioned. As recently as June, the Minister with responsibility for schools reiterated the coalition Government’s commitment to the EMA, but we now see that that commitment was as hollow as a Liberal Democrat pledge. Will the Leader of the House arrange for a statement on the equalities impact assessment of the withdrawal of the EMA?
Mr Speaker
Order. I was expecting to move on to the main business. [Interruption.] I emphasise that I had been expecting to move on to the main business. Suddenly, there are points of order. We will observe just how genuine they are. I feel sure that they will be.
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. I understand that the House is excited, but we must hear the point of order.
Sadiq Khan
Thank you, Mr Speaker. We have today debated the remaining stages of a Bill that were not discussed in Committee. The parts we were supposed to discuss today covered a reduction in the number of seats, a change in the way they are distributed, and abolition of local inquiries. We have also had two statements.
We have had no debate on clause 12, which covers Boundary Commission processes and which was not discussed in Committee, and we had less than two hours’ debate today. There were more than 12 speakers who were not called at the end of the debate. Clause 13 ––[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
The right hon. Gentleman has made his point, and I understand his concern. He knows that the programme motion is a matter determined by, and in the hands of, the House; it is not a matter for the Chair. The Speaker is always keen to have the maximum debate on matters of concern. The right hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member, and he has made his point with great clarity. It is on the record, and it will be heard by those on the Treasury Bench: whether it is heeded by others remains to be seen.
Business of the House
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. Many right hon. and hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. We have important business to follow, including heavily subscribed business, so brevity from Back Benchers and Front Benchers alike is essential.
Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)
The Leader of the House may be aware that two large businesses in my constituency are closing or making people redundant. I wrote to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills some time ago, and he promised he would try to fit in a visit to my constituency. Could the Leader of the House give me any advice on how I can impress upon the Secretary of State the urgency of such a visit?
Mr Speaker
Order. That question was extremely amusing, but it suffered from the disadvantage of having made no request whatever for a statement or a debate. There will therefore be no reply to it.
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
As we are approaching Halloween, may I please ask the Leader of the House to send out a plea on behalf of women such as Sally Joseph, one of my constituents and a member of the Women’s Food and Farming Union, about the use of Chinese lanterns? These lanterns are marketed as being eco-friendly and biodegradable, but they contain wire frames and bamboo, which can be dangerous to livestock if they land on farmland. Can we please urgently ask our constituents not to use them?
Sir George Young
I support the hon. Lady’s request for a debate or a statement on Chinese lanterns, which I know from farmers in my own constituency can do real damage to livestock. I also understand that alternative components can be used in these lanterns and I will raise with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs the question of whether they could be promoted as an alternative to the ones that cause the damage.
Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
The Prime Minister misled the House yesterday—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”]
Mr David
I am sure that it was inadvertent, as we all know. He said that Labour MEPs had voted in favour of an increase in the EU budget, but that is not the case. They voted against the increase. When the Prime Minister makes his statement to the House on Monday, perhaps he could correct the inadvertent mistake that he made.
Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
May we have a debate on the timetabling of Bills? In the present Parliament, should it not be much more transparent? If the Government and the Opposition, through the usual channels, agree on periods for timetabling, should that not appear on the Order Paper as a matter of public record?
I am sure that the Government and the Opposition agreed on the amount of time to be allotted to the Committee and Report stages of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, but the Opposition have spent more time drifting through the Division Lobbies than diligently debating the detail of the Bill on the Floor of the House, and have then complained—
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sure that what the hon. Gentleman is saying is learned, but I am afraid it is a disquisition. What I want is a one-sentence question to the Leader of the House.
Tony Baldry
My one-sentence question occurred at the beginning of my disquisition, Mr Speaker, and I am sure that the Leader of the House got the drift of it.
Sir George Young
The hon. Gentleman said that I was a tall man; I say to the hon. Gentleman that he is, at times, a verbose man.
We have provided five days for the Committee stage of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, and two days for Report. I consider that to be a generous provision, and much of that time so far has been spent by the hon. Gentleman speaking at length from the Dispatch Box. [Interruption.] Moreover, some of the time was not used last week when the House rose early. The House has been given adequate notice of the issues on the Order Paper, and we shall have ample time next Monday and Tuesday to deal with the amendments that have been tabled. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) gives every indication that he is auditioning to become a football commentator, ensuring that we have the benefit of his narrative on every aspect of the proceedings. It is richly enjoyable, but not altogether necessary.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
May I ask my mature, non-manic, well-educated right hon. Friend whether we can have a debate on the House of Commons calendar covering business until 2012? Although it is very useful, it seems to have omitted from the shaded areas the additional days that the Government have promised for private Members’ Bills.
Sir George Young
It is important that Ministers notify Members when they are visiting Members’ constituents and give them adequate notice. I will of course raise with my hon. Friend the Minister the incident that the hon. Gentleman has referred to and ask him to write to him.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The last Government committed themselves to 2 megabit broadband for everyone by the end of 2012. You have committed yourself to vague promises to improve the broadband network. Can you say precisely when everyone in the country will have 2 megabit broadband?
Mr Speaker
Order. I have committed myself to nothing on this matter and I can say nothing on this matter, but I hope that the Secretary of State can.
The Minister for Sport and the Olympics (Hugh Robertson)
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State met Francis Maude on 8 July to discuss the public bodies Bill—
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sure that the Minister is referring to the right hon. Member for Horsham (Mr Maude); alternatively, he should refer to him as a Minister.
Hugh Robertson
My apologies, Mr Speaker. They discussed bringing together UK Sport and Sport England, and that was also discussed at an inter-ministerial meeting on 13 September. I also met my devolved counterparts to discuss the issue when I was in Delhi and I have, of course, discussed it with many others in sport and inside the two bodies.
Mr Speaker
No, the hon. Gentleman is not standing. He was poised, perched like a panther. I call Mr Pete Wishart.
Pete Wishart
Will the hon. Gentleman assure me that the House business committee will be a Committee of the whole of the House, not just the Government parties and the Labour Opposition? What is he and the Leader of the House doing personally to ensure that smaller parties are properly represented on the new Committee?
Business of the House
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. A very large number of right hon. and hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye and there is some pressure on time, so I appeal, as always, for single, short supplementary questions and, of course, to the Leader of the House to exercise his characteristic pithiness in reply.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
On the eve of European health and safety week, is the Leader of the House aware of the excessive bureaucracy that Essex county council highways department has imposed upon the village of Coggeshall in my constituency just to put up its village Christmas tree and lights? Can he please reassure my constituents that he will work across Government to ensure that the over-zealous bureaucrats at the highways department do not kill Christmas in Coggeshall?
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
On the constituencies and boundaries Bill—the Parliamentary Voting and Constituencies Bill—the Leader of the House mentioned the importance of a variety of means of scrutiny. First, will he ensure that the recommendations of the Welsh Affairs Committee, which are to be published next week, will be taken seriously by him in his deliberations and by the Government? Secondly, will he confirm that the SIs will be dealt with before Report? Finally, will he ensure that the Welsh Assembly is properly consulted?
Mr Speaker
Order. In future, Members should avoid asking three questions. It is a bit cheeky and rather unfair on colleagues.
Sir George Young
I will choose to answer one of them. The Welsh Affairs Committee report will be available to the Government before the Report stage, and it will therefore be possible to take it on board before we reach the final stages of the Bill.
Sir George Young
I think those powers were extended to the police by the previous Administration. We are not abolishing the EHRC, and we are against any racial profiling when it comes to stop and search. I will raise the issue with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and ask her to respond.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the Leader of the House and to colleagues for their economy, which has enabled everyone to get in within a pretty reasonable time frame.
Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wish to raise what happened last night regarding amendment 3 to the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Many people judged what happened to be a breach of the underlying conventions of the House—the spirit of the rules—irrespective of the precision that could be applied to the Standing Orders themselves. We saw the cynical adoption of amendments with which the coalition Government clearly disagree merely to induce a negative vote. No opportunity was given for my amendments or those of other hon. Members to be debated or voted on in Committee. The threshold amendments are about percentages and proportionality, as is the principle of the Bill itself. I urge you to protect the underlying fundamental conventions of the House and the spirit of the rules on this matter on Report.
Mr Speaker
Before I respond to the hon. Gentleman, I think the House will want to hear from the Deputy Leader of the House.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House of Commons (Mr David Heath)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am most grateful to you for letting me respond. It was entirely regrettable that we did not reach what was an important group of amendments last night. Clearly, the House wanted sufficient time to take a view on the matter, which was why the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), quite properly indicated that he would put the amendment before the House to give Members the opportunity to take a view on it. In the end, they decided not to take a view; there was no one in support of the amendment. However, having taken account of yesterday’s events, and given the important matters that we have to debate today, may I draw the House’s attention to the programme motion that we will shortly be taking a view on? It will take away any knives this evening, which means that if we do not complete clause 9 this evening, we will be able to continue discussion tomorrow. That seems to me an entirely appropriate course of action.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the Deputy Leader of the House for what he said. I am trying to wrap it up, but of course we must hear from Chris Bryant.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I think the Deputy Leader of the House is somewhat mistaken in his interpretation of what happened yesterday evening. I think there was a clear desire by many hon. Members not just to debate the particular issue of thresholds but actually to debate clause 6, which has not been debated at all in any shape or form in this House. [Interruption.] The Parliamentary Secretary is saying from a sedentary position that I was wasting time. I profoundly object to the fact that when we choose to scrutinise his legislation, he is calling into question my good faith.
The truth of the matter is that the Government did not provide enough time for the debate. In addition, the Deputy Leader of the House last night, when he suggested to me that he was bringing forward this new motion, said that it was because all the rest of the stuff that we were going to debate tomorrow was a pile of dross and did not need very much analysis. I hope that there will be a process of ensuring that the House of Lords is made fully aware of the fact that today’s programme motion makes absolutely no difference to whether or not yesterday we had any opportunity to consider the three clauses and three schedules that were before the House.
Mr Speaker
I certainly cannot go into all of that. Suffice it to say that I think the point that the hon. Gentleman has just made constitutes a self-fulfilling prophecy; in so far as he is concerned that the other place should be aware of his interpretation of last night’s events, he has made it aware of his interpretation by what he has just said. It is on the record and I am sure it will be studied carefully there and elsewhere.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) for giving me notice of his point of order. It is not for me to rule on what has happened in Committee of the Whole House. On the wider issue he raises, it is not unprecedented—the hon. Gentleman has been a Member of the House since 1984, so he will testify to the truth of this—for a Minister to move a Back-Bench amendment, even if he or she does not wish to vote for it. As the First Deputy Chairman said last night:
“What the Government propose is orderly under Standing Order No. 83D(2)”—[Official Report, 18 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 767.],
although it is, as some hon. Members have observed—including, today, the hon. Gentleman—somewhat unusual. I am sure that hon. Members will also have noted the opportunities open to them, as has been remarked, on Report. Members present will certainly have noted what the Deputy Leader of the House has just said.
I hope that is helpful; I am not keen to take, and indeed I am keen not to take, further points of order on that matter, but I think we have a point of order from Mr. Andrew Rosindell.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will recall that on 27 July this year, I raised a point of order in the House with regard to the 20th anniversary of the murder by the IRA of the late Ian Gow, Member of Parliament for the Eastbourne constituency. I asked whether it might be possible for you, Mr Speaker, to consider a permanent memorial to Ian Gow in this House, and I wonder if today you may be in a position to update us on any progress you may have made in that respect.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and, thankfully, I am in a position to update the House. The hon. Gentleman came to see me about this matter last week, together with the noble Lord Howe of Aberavon, in order to underline their strength of feeling on the subject and to articulate the request for some such memorial. I undertook on that occasion to the hon. Gentleman and to the noble Lord to seek to ensure that the matter was placed on the agenda for the immediately following meeting of the House of Commons Commission. I put it on the agenda, and I had the benefit of a detailed letter from the noble Lord.
The matter was considered at the House of Commons Commission meeting last night, and I am pleased to advise the House that the Commission decided unanimously that there should be a permanent memorial to the late Ian Gow, and that that would likely take the form of a plaque. That plaque would be put up in the Chamber of the House of Commons, similar to the plaque that has been long established in recognition of the distinction and terrible fate of the late Airey Neave.
I can also inform the House that the detailed discussions about what will now happen and the form that the plaque will take will get under way very speedily. I hope that Members in all parts of the House will recognise the merit of the case for such a plaque, which I know will be greatly appreciated by members of Ian Gow’s family and by a great many people besides in all parts of the United Kingdom. I hope that is helpful to the House.