Cost of Living: Financial Support for Disabled People

Robert Syms Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Westminster Hall

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve with you as Chair, Sir Robert. I thank the Petitions Committee for arranging this important debate.

We know that many people are struggling at the moment as a result of the cost of living crisis generally, but, as we have heard, disabled people are struggling more than most, and households that include someone with a disability spend more on food, face higher energy costs and are more likely to have a lower household income. It was really interesting to hear my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) talk about a survey that showed some tragic results for those experiencing such conditions, and I thank her for referring to that.

As we have heard, analysis by the disability charity Scope suggests that, on average, disabled households need an additional £975 a month to have the same standard of living as non-disabled households. That rises to over £1,100 if we account for this year’s inflation. 

The figures account for disability payments such as PIP, which are designed to help address those costs. For some families, the costs have a shocking impact. Disabled people are almost three times as likely to live in material deprivation than the rest of the population, and 80% of households with a disabled person say that Government cost of living payments are just not enough to meet the increased costs that they face. Families might accrue costs due to expensive dietary requirements, running medical equipment or being unable to cut back on their heating because they need a higher temperature. Low temperatures can have adverse effects on the vulnerable.

This time last year, many of us would have attended a Marie Curie drop-in. Marie Curie published its report “Dying in Poverty” a year ago, which presented its research on the impact of poverty on terminal illness. At the drop-in, I and others met a lady with a terminal cancer diagnosis and her husband. They had a water meter and, without me asking, they said that they were running up huge costs because of the need to do constant washing in order to limit the risk of infection. What struck me from that meeting was how little is known about the help that is available for people through water companies and other initiatives. It is not enough to meet the general need, which is a tiny proportion in that case. Some people have much more significant costs than others.

The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) spoke about social tariffs. I am co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on water, and we have been looking at the proposals for a social tariff for water and the impact of that. We have been working with the Consumer Council for Water. I am very disappointed to hear that the Government have dropped the idea of pursuing that social tariff, as was revealed in answer to a written parliamentary question I submitted recently. I acknowledge some of the difficulties the hon. Gentleman mentioned, but I think we need to look at something that supports people much more generally. He also talked about proposals for an energy social tariff and whether that is the best idea. I genuinely think he made a thoughtful argument about that, but we need to look very closely at how people—including disabled people, who we are focusing on today—can be supported.

The rising cost of energy is affecting disabled families the most severely. One respondent to a Guardian survey said he had stopped using a CPAP machine during the day, even when he was short of breath, in order to limit his bills. Ventilators, suction pumps, feed pumps, power chairs and electric beds are all pieces of equipment that cost money to run, and families are going days without heating or showering so that they can keep this equipment turned on. It seems that there is very little understanding of what may be covered. Assurances can be given that these costs will be covered, but in many cases they are not. We need to make sure that support is available.

For some families the extra costs are coming at a time when they are desperately trying to make memories with their loved ones who have terminal illnesses. Marie Curie has reported that the costs of energy bills can rise by as much as 75% in the aftermath of a diagnosis. It has also found that 90,000 people die in poverty every year. During Department for Work and Pensions questions in December, I raised with the Minister the issue of changes to the warm home discount scheme, which removed eligibility from 300,000 disabled people, leaving many families afraid of being unable to meet their heightened energy costs.

For goodness’ sake, £150 will not address the problem anyway, but it is better to have that money than to lose it as part of the system. That happened quite quietly and was little known about at the time, and it is important that we address it. The changes suggest that the Government were not willing to address the disability price tag. Excluding disabled households from the bulk of cost of living support, unless they are on means-tested benefits, forces them to absorb the additional costs themselves by emptying their pockets.

The £150 payment is equivalent to just £2.88 per week across the year. It does not do enough to reduce the costs down to the already staggering costs faced by households that do not have a member with a disability. Why should these families be worse off because one of them lives with a disability? This is a disparity that Government policy is failing to address.

Speaking in these general terms is great for drawing attention to the broader issues, but the reality is that in our constituencies each of us as MPs meets and supports people with disabilities who face exactly these problems—that is before we start talking about PIP assessments and eligibility and the support people need there. These are real people: individuals and families living in our constituencies. They are like those I and other hon. Members meet and the people we met at the Marie Curie drop-in. They deserve not to have the additional worry of struggling to meet their energy bills or of being cold and further damaging their health.

I hope having the debate will cause the Government to look again at the issue and reconsider the support they are providing. I hope they will ask themselves how much less money and resources they are comfortable with households with people with disabilities having compared to other families. Unless the answer is tens of thousands of pounds a year, there is still a huge amount of work for the Government to do. I believe people need much more support and there is much work to do.

[Sir Robert Syms (in the Chair)]

I call Amy Callaghan. You can speak seated if you would be more comfortable.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She speaks with knowledge, understanding and a really deep request for change that she has put forward clearly and capably. When the Minister responds, perhaps he can say how this place can improve its disability access. I know that much has been done, but we live with an old building and a lot more probably needs to be done than would normally be the case.

Being able to reliably apply for extra money will always be of help to people. I understand Government policy, I welcome it and think it is positive, but will the Minister outline the Government’s strategy for those with a disability who are returning to part-time work, if possible? Again, I speak with knowledge and experience. I am not smarter than anybody else—definitely not—but in such debates I just try to reflect what people tell me.

Some of those disabled people have a fear about returning to work, because they are not quite sure if they can do it. They want to go back to work, but the reality is that some of them cannot. Whether they have three days a week or perhaps two weeks together for which they cannot cope, for some people the return to work is not an option. Real compassion and understanding has to be paramount in trying to give people with disabilities the option to return to work. I seek from the Minister a clear understanding of Government policy on how that will be done in a way that reflects what people need. The fact is that they want to work, but the days and weeks that they are unable to work mean that they cannot, and we need to make that right.

In January 2023, the Resolution Foundation found that for the financial year 2020-21 the gap in household income between adults with a disability and adults without a disability was about 30% if disability benefits were included, which is quite a significant gap, and 44% if disability benefits were excluded. Furthermore, a third of adults in the lowest income group are disabled. Those figures are not the Government’s fault, by the way. Those are facts. That is where we are. That is the data. But it is about how we respond in a positive fashion.

One-off payments are all very well and good, and the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys referred to that. It is good that the Government have reached out and given that extra money, but perhaps what we really need is an ongoing vision for the next year or the next period of time, whereby those benefits and the help with energy payments and so on are provided in a constructive and statistical way, to ensure that there is a vision for the future for those people who are disabled? The assessment is good when it comes to whether there is a positive impact on the efficiency of paying bills, and the one-off payment takes pressure off, but I believe that it needs to be negotiated in a different way. Of course, the Government have reached deep into their pockets to ensure that there is help for people. However, the benefits must be felt over a longer time to truly help.

I will conclude with this comment. There is no doubt that the cost of living crisis has had an impact on everyone, but we do and we must look to the Government to consider the specific impacts right now. Again, I request the Minister and the Government to support people when times are increasingly difficult—and they are really not only difficult, but very uncertain.

[Sir Robert Syms (in the Chair)]

We now move on to the Front-Bench speeches.

State Pension

Robert Syms Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2022 Westminster Hall

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Sir Robert. I do not intend this to be an unnecessarily long point of order, but I am aware that the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) has just arrived in Chamber and will probably take a moment or two to find her notes. I think she has done that now, so I will stop this pointless point of order.

[Sir Robert Syms (in the Chair)]

Thank you. There are still gentlemen in the House of Commons.

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 617603, relating to the state pension.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Robert. I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) for his point of order.

I start by congratulating Michael Thompson on creating the petition, as well as the creators of the six other petitions being debated today. I thank Age UK and Silver Voices for their briefings, and the whole of the Petitions Committee team for all their hard work. The petition calls on the Government to increase the state pension to £380 a week, and to lower the retirement age back to 60. The petition has already been signed by more than 110,000 people.

The current full state pension is £185.15 per week, and the basic state pension is £141.85. Many of us are here today because we believe that the state pension should provide adequate financial support for the 12 million pensioners in the UK, ensuring that they are protected in old age after paying into the system. Given this country’s wealth, we can afford to look after our pensioners. By increasing the state pension or introducing a minimum pension income guarantee, we could lift thousands of pensioners out of poverty.

While financial support is vital, the issue is not just about money. Measures to address pensioner poverty must include a broad range of actions to underwrite acceptable living standards, including support for our wider public services, such as social care to support our pensioners to live independently, and day centres to reduce loneliness and social isolation. On that point, I thank Age UK Wandsworth in my Battersea constituency. I visited last week and met many of the older people who value the services provided by that day centre, but they really want more access to it, more often. More importantly, all of them wanted the state pension to increase.

Poverty and inequality among pensioners are rising, with more than 2 million people in relative poverty. There are many reasons why some are falling into poverty. The first and most urgent is the cost of living crisis. Research by the Centre for Ageing Better found that a further 200,000 elderly people have already been pushed into poverty in the last year, and a recent report by Age UK found that this Christmas will be among the most difficult ever for nearly 3 million older people.

The measly 3% rise in the state pension this financial year was dwarfed by inflation and the intersecting impacts of rocketing food, fuel and energy bills, with the latter alone forecast to rise to £3,000 by next April. After shamefully reneging on their manifesto commitment on the triple lock last year, the Government finally committed to its reinstatement, as well as a cost of living payment for pensioners, in last month’s autumn statement. However, given that neither measure is scheduled to come into force until next year, they will be too little, too late for many who need the support right now. The misery is compounded by cuts to public services and the Government’s U-turn on their social care reforms: 10% of older people will reduce or stop their care in the coming months because of the cost of living crisis.

These causes of poverty only add to the challenges faced by pensioners. Although older people have a higher rate of home ownership than the general population, many are asset rich but cash poor. That means that some are driven to sell their homes to make up for shortfalls in pensions and are pushed into the higher-cost private rented sector.

Inequalities in state pension rates are also dragging the elderly into poverty. Department for Work and Pensions statistics for the 2020 financial year show that less than 10% of all pensioners received the full new top rate of pension—£185.15—and less than a third of those on the old pension receive the full rate.

The rise in the eligibility age for the state pension from 65 to 66 from 2018 has also increased hardship. According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, more than 700,000 65-year-olds have missed out on entitlements and postponed retirement. The elderly are compelled to remain in the job market, and they simultaneously lack opportunities to increase their income. The Government need to consider targeted support for people who are much older as endemic age discrimination in employment affects their ability to build a work pension or find work to complement their state pension.

The third factor is the pension credit system, which can play an important part in helping to close the pensioner poverty gap, especially for women, disabled people and black, Asian and ethnic minority pensioners. Since Labour introduced the measure, its efficacy has been undermined by low take-up. In its July report, the Work and Pensions Committee stated that

“an estimated further 850,000 eligible households are not claiming Pension Credit worth £1.7 billion a year.”

It strongly recommended that the Government improve the identification of eligible people, streamline the application process and make it more accessible.

The risk of pensioner poverty is amplified for women, disabled people and black, Asian and ethnic minority pensioner groups. Women disproportionately experience later-life poverty, with the proportion of those suffering rising from 14% to 20% in the eight-year period from 2013. The equivalent figures for men were 12% and 18%. Those figures are expressions of the wider inequalities endured by women. The Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign highlights a particularly egregious instance of those disparities. The Government have a legal and moral obligation to deliver for the many WASPI women in our constituencies. Pensions, lifetime earnings and national insurance contributions are typically lower for women due to the gender pay gap and caring responsibilities—we are all aware of those factors.

For black, Asian and ethnic minority pensioners, the inequalities are even starker. According to Age UK, 33% of Asian and 30% of black pensioners are in poverty—double the proportion of their white counterparts. Similarly to those faced by women, these inequalities are the expression of lower average wages and labour market discrimination, which translate to less generous state pensions. That has often led to some ethnic minority people earning below the minimum salary threshold for auto-enrolment in workplace pensions. Lowering that threshold would be an easy fix for this injustice; according to a report by The People’s Pension, it would double the enrolment of ethnic minority employees.

Employment and pay disparities also create later-life poverty for disabled pensioners, who are less likely to possess a work pension or a private pension as a result. We know that those effects will be exacerbated by higher living costs of around £600 per month on average for disabled people, including older disabled people.

All that shows emphatically that some pensioners are really struggling. The Government need to look at how they can support them. I hope that the Minister will address the issues I have raised, as well as making reference to the following points. First, the Government talk a lot about tackling pensioner poverty. If they are serious about doing so, why will they not commit to increasing the state pension, or introducing a minimum pension income guarantee for everybody, irrespective of their contribution record, their sex and gender, their age or their marital status?

In the current crisis, the additional cost of living payments announced in last month’s autumn statement clearly will not be enough for some pensioners. Will the Government therefore introduce additional financial support targeted at those pensioners who are most in need?

Have the Government carried out an impact assessment of how the delay caused by the U-turn on social care reform will impact our pensioners? What plans do they have to address the inequality I highlighted of the low percentage of people on the full new state pension rate?

My next point is probably the most crucial; it concerns pension credit. Why will the Government not deliver a take-up campaign to identify eligible pensioners, and introduce a streamlined and accessible application process, so that the pensioners who are entitled to that additional top-up can receive it? Pension credit is there to top up income, and I strongly believe that the Government could be proactive in identifying pensioners who might qualify.

The WASPI women need justice. When will the Government provide compensation for the failings? Will they commit to ensuring that there is a proper, lengthy notice period for any future change to the state pension age?

Will the Government seek to bring down the minimum salary for auto-enrolment to workplace pension schemes? That would increase the participation of under-represented groups, particularly our black, Asian and ethnic minority communities.

We all know, particularly at this time of year, that loneliness and social isolation are key contributors to material deprivation. More investment is needed in public services and the social support networks that are available to older people; in fact, we need an overarching strategy to address that. What are the Government doing to support community and local organisations, such as Age UK Wandsworth in my constituency? It provides a lifeline and vital services to people who live in the local area. I reiterate the point I made earlier: because of the funding available, many can attend that centre only a couple of days a week, but they would like to go three or four times a week. It is unfair that the time they can spend at such centres is being limited.

Finally, I call on the Government to explore alternative ways to fund our pension system. The state pension is unfunded, meaning that its obligations are not underpinned by assets that could generate investment and return. That funding model is implicitly appealed to when the Government object to the rising cost of pensions due to our ageing population and the impact that will have on younger people, although that probably does not apply to any of us in the Chamber, as none of us is very young. [Interruption.] Well, some might be. However, an appreciation of funding models used in other countries could point the way towards a systemic shift that could help fund the state pension system.

We owe it to our elderly and all our pensioners, as well as to the generations that come after us, to be progressive in our thinking and innovative in our approach. We must look at all options to ensure that when people reach their later years they will not fear retirement but embrace it, because they will know that, in the state pension system, there is a safety net in place to support them and they will not be struggling.

[Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Robert, for the opportunity to speak. Before I became an MP, I conducted more than 10 years of research on how poverty and inequality affect older people’s inclusion in society, so this subject is a particular interest of mine.

Pensioner poverty is significant in the UK, and it continues to increase. It is estimated that over 2 million—one in five—older people are living in relative poverty, with the greatest impact on women and other vulnerable groups. The level of pensioner poverty is similar in my country, Wales. The Older People’s Commissioner for Wales—I am very proud that Wales is still, I think, the only nation in the UK to have an older people’s commissioner—along with other organisations, has expressed serious concern about the detrimental impact that the cost of living is having on older people. My constituency had the third highest death rate from covid in the whole of the United Kingdom. That exemplifies the effect that poverty and the industrial legacy of Cynon Valley have on the health and wellbeing of older people.

Just before the summer, I conducted a cost of living survey in Cynon Valley. Nearly nine out of 10 pensioners who responded said that they felt worse off than they did 12 months earlier. Security in retirement was the biggest cause for concern among pensioners. One older person said:

“Us elderly people have worked very hard over the years and we get very little back to survive on.”

I pay tribute to a range of organisations in Wales, including Age Cymru and Age Connects in Cynon Valley, who are doing amazing work with older people, trying to empower them and giving them a voice in our communities.

The petition calls for an increase in the state pension to £380 a week and a reduction in the state pension age to 60, which would be a significant change. However, the demands of the petition open up a debate on where pension levels are set and what is the right age to start receiving the state pension.

At the 2019 election, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), the then shadow Chancellor, rightly sought to deal with state pension inequality for women and offered a major compensation scheme. He said:

“This is an entitlement. This is not a benefit…This is a historic injustice. We have to address it.”

Over 4,000 women in my constituency are affected, and I am working closely with an active group of local women to continue campaigning for justice for the WASPI women. I have continued to support their demand for compensation, through demands for full restitution and through the minimum compensation proposal of the WASPI campaign and the all-party parliamentary group on state pension inequality for women. As we know, the ombudsman has found that there was maladministration, and we are now waiting for the full report to be published and for the recommendations for remedy. We must compensate these women.

The other group of older people I am working closely with in Cynon Valley are former miners. I welcomed the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee report in 2021, which recommended giving £1.2 billion held in the investment reserve to former miners. It really is regrettable that the Government have rejected the Committee’s recommendations, and I urge them to look at those again. The WASPI women and former mineworkers are examples of pensioners who have been let down—and let down massively—by the UK Government.

More broadly, there is a debate around the level of the state pension. Much is being said about how pensioners’ incomes have been safeguarded, compared with real changes to incomes and social security in recent years. However, pensioner poverty is growing, and the petition demands a significant increase in the state pension. The National Pensioners Convention says that the state pension should be set at 70% of the living wage and above the official poverty level, at £242.55 a week. That is what a pensioner in the Netherlands gets, with an equivalent of more than £250 a week. The petition demands £380 a week, and in Denmark the folkepension for a single pensioner is £370 a week. This can and should be done here. These other countries’ pensions put the demands of the NPC and this petition into perspective—they are not unreasonable demands.

The question about funding these increases is welcome. There are many sources of untaxed wealth that could deliver the revenues to pay for higher pensions. A wealth tax could raise in the region of £260 billion to £300 billion. The country has the money; it is a political choice not to redistribute the wealth of this country to ensure that older people and many millions of other vulnerable people have the money to maintain a basic standard of living. That is a basic human right, and everybody should have that entitlement.

Before I conclude, I will take the opportunity to highlight the fact that a third of those entitled to pension credit—over 750,000 people—do not claim it, although they are entitled to. As my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) said, that equates to about £1.7 billion of unclaimed money. I urge the UK Government urgently to take action on this issue. I truly wish that they would pay as much attention to ensuring that people claim what they are entitled as they do to stigmatising people on social security benefits, who are entitled to that money and should have it as a matter of right.

To conclude, pensioner poverty is rising. Combatting it is a question of principle and values. If we are to achieve justice for pensioners, we must take action to deliver it.

[Sir Robert Syms (in the Chair)]

We now move to the Front Benchers, who normally have 10 minutes or less.

Food Banks

Robert Syms Excerpts

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

Poole food bank does a valuable job, supported by a wide range of people, largely from the churches, but including people across the political spectrum. They are all dealing with what must be a very difficult personal crisis for many when they cannot put food on the table. As a parent, one cannot conceive what it must be like to worry about what can be provided for children in an evening meal. In some respects, food banks provide a perfect example of the third sector at work, doing what it can to plug a gap at a particularly difficult time.

When all this started, I was sitting on the other side of the Chamber, watching the Budgets and the economic management of the country. At that time I was told that boom and bust had been abolished, yet we had one of the biggest busts ever—nearly 7% of GDP. However we look at it, if GDP falls by as much as that, living standards will take a hit.

Let me make an important point. It could have been a lot worse if people in work had gone for high pay increases to compensate for high bills, but they did not; they priced themselves into jobs. It could have been worse if people had been irresponsible, but they have not been irresponsible. Given the scale of the bust, it is a miracle that only 7.4% of people in the country are unemployed. The figures in Germany and Holland are lower, but, among European countries, Britain is not doing too badly.

[Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, while we should all support churches, charities and organisations such as the West Northumberland food bank in my constituency, we should praise the Salvation Army in particular, because it has been providing food assistance for generations?

[Mr Syms]

That is a very good point.

We all know that many people in work, as well as those who are out of work, have experienced a big drop in their living standards, and we know that that is because of the economic crisis, but the good news is that there are still a great many people in work and we have a growing economy. It is inevitable that living standards will start to recover as incomes rise, the market recovers and we start to export more.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman’s description of the macro-economic picture is not as connected to the micro-economic picture as he may assume. According to volunteers at the food bank in my constituency, they have been told that the need for food banks has been caused by the move from benefits to work. People’s weekly benefits stop and their pay cheques come at the end of the month, which is too far away. I fear that the recovery will not reach all parts of the economy unless we make it do so. Can he tell us what we can do to ensure that that happens?

[Mr Syms]

One of our purposes in introducing universal credit is to make the transition from unemployment to work much easier. The scheme is complicated—we all know that—but I think that it is a worthwhile venture, because anything making employment easier must be a good thing.

[Andrew Selous]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Syms]

I will not, because my time is limited. I have already taken two interventions.

I am sure that, as the economy recovers, living standards will recover as well, but there is a short-term problem and a long-term problem. The short-term problem is the need for us to recover from the recession, which, as we all know, will take several years. The long-term problem is that, while those in the western world who have benefited from globalisation—particularly people at the higher income scale working in, for instance, financial services—can secure large rewards, many people in ordinary jobs have not managed to increase their living standards. That is a feature of the United States economy and it may be a feature of ours, which is why the Government are interested in apprenticeships and are trying to make our education system far more robust and resilient.

Statistics issued by the OECD the other day demonstrated the importance of ensuring that people are proficient in English and maths and that we have a skilled work force, because that enables those people to generate income and higher living standards. I think that the Government have the right instincts and the right answers, but the fact is that it will take a long time to sort the problem out.

[Steve Baker]

Given that the money supply was allowed to triple during the 13 years when Labour was in power, it should not surprise us if those nearest to the source of the new money got rich while everyone else went backwards.

[Mr Syms]

There is an argument to be had about the impact of that. Certainly it helped people with assets rather than those without assets. Nevertheless, I think that progress is being made, and that this morning’s unemployment figures represent a good staging post.

We need to do much more to educate and skill our work force so that we can compete in the global race and improve everyone’s living standards. All the statistics show that some of the more equal societies in Scandinavia are happier societies. What any Government must do in this country is ensure that, as the economy recovers, all sections of the community can earn a living, and can enjoy rising living standards.

Oral Answers to Questions

Robert Syms Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Esther McVey]

I and the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), will be publishing those findings. We have had significant success with Remploy employees. They have gained jobs at a faster rate than others who have been made redundant, and the work of the local Jobcentre Plus has been exceptional.

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

4. What assessment he has made of the effect of the benefit cap on employment outcomes

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)]

Recent poll findings show that of those notified or aware that they would be affected by the cap, three in 10 took action to find work. To date, almost 36,000 have accepted help to move into work from Jobcentre Plus and around 18,000 potentially capped claimants have moved into work.

[Mr Syms]

Jobcentre Plus in Dorset worked extremely hard to identify those affected and to get them into employment. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the impact of that on the recent encouraging employment figures?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I give credit to Jobcentre Plus for the action that it took, which sometimes goes unnoticed, when it knew that this policy was coming in. From April 2012, it wrote to potentially affected people with advance warning. It set up a helpline on the benefit cap and an online calculator so that they could work out some of the figures themselves. It then telephoned some of the most vulnerable, and visited them as well. It set up funding for intensive employment support and worked with local authorities to support claimants in budgeting, housing and child care, and big employment events. This is one of major reasons why about 61% of those who moved into work did so after they were notified.

Unemployment

Robert Syms Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will set out in a moment how our work experience scheme, for example, is succeeding in helping young people to move into work in the private sector.

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

Youth unemployment started rising in 2004 and peaked at nearly 1 million in 2009. Will my right hon. Friend set out the facts about that in an honest and straightforward manner? The problems did not start in 2010.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

I agree with the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) that the world did not start in May 2010. There are 30 million people in the work force, and when they were educated, what they were educated in, and how they have skilled themselves throughout their lives makes a very big difference to their employment prospects today. Therefore, whoever the Government are, they are, to some extent, presiding over the legacy of previous Governments.

We all know that, as a country, there are some things we have done well and some things we have done badly. Being out of work is a tragedy for anybody, but over the past 10 or 20 years, this country has not done too badly in keeping unemployment levels below that of many countries in Europe. In Spain, for example, unemployment is at horrific levels. Where we have got it wrong is in having, for understandable reasons, a welfare system that has sometimes become a disincentive for people to take jobs. In the Government’s reform of the welfare system—I hope that it turns out on time and to plan—they are trying to take away the cliff edge from those who are out of work and perhaps not well skilled enough to get a high-paid job so that they can take a job because it is worth their while to do so. That is a very important part of the future of our nation. Over the past 18 months, we have still had people with skills coming in from abroad and taking jobs. Under the last Labour Government, about 2 million jobs were taken by people coming in from abroad. That meant that we have not been able to motivate our own people to take those jobs. Welfare reform must be part of that.

We must look at our education system and put a lot more effort into technical education. Since Beveridge and the Education Act 1944, this country has not done as well as many of those on the continent, particularly the Germans, in technical education, which was never properly developed. When I look at Germany, I am impressed by how well respected people are who have a good technical education and by how workers are trained to provide a highly skilled work force. The success of the German economy has a lot to do with that.

What the Government are doing about training and in trying to recreate the apprenticeships that fell into disrepair is very valuable. When I go around companies in Poole, including many successful companies, the managing directors are often not degree candidates, but people who started on the shop floor with an apprenticeship in engineering and have skilled themselves up throughout their lives. Unless we get back to having good technical education, I fear we will not produce a generation of decent managers and keep the standard of living that we want.

Welfare, training and education therefore need to be part of the picture. However, we need to have a stable economic environment for people to invest. We inherited a big deficit and it will take some years to sort things out. Things do not happen in a straight line. There will be good years and bad years, and good Budgets and bad Budgets. Clearly, this is one of the years when things are going a bit slower, and I suspect that over the next four or five years, there will be years when things go a bit better. I hope that, over that time, we can create enough jobs to take up the slack of the public sector and that we can provide people in this country with a decent living, but it is going to be hard.

Nobody in this Government underestimates the task. We have a coalition of two parties that agree that we need to sort the country out and to provide more opportunities. It is a moderate coalition of sensible people and I think that it will succeed in the end, but it may take all five years before people make a sensible judgment about whether we have succeeded.

Living Standards

Robert Syms Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

At the end of the Labour period in office, when the first financial storms hit us in 2007, it was clear that the country was, at that point, living beyond its means. It had a deficit of about 3% of GDP, while at the same time the Germans had a surplus. Then we hit all the problems of the banking collapse. The hon. Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) was right: thank God Britain had a low debt level of gross domestic product because that allowed the Government—

[Hugh Bayley]

Reduced by Labour.

[Mr Syms]

Yes, partly because of that. Traditionally in Britain it has been about 40%, so that gave the Government some room for manoeuvre. Any Government in office would have had a large increase in its deficit given what hit them in 2007 and 2008. There is no great argument about that and, as someone sitting on the other side of the Chamber, I think that many of the things that the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) did were beneficial in trying to maintain a fragile economic situation.

Having said that, we cannot continue to increase debt year on year at the rate we were in 2009, 2010 and 2011 or we will overwhelm the British economy. The worst thing for our constituents is not paying tax; it is paying tax to pay interest on money being borrowed from someone else. The Government had to make a judgment, and their judgment was to set out an economic policy gradually to reduce our debt over five to seven years to a level that, once it tops off in 2016-17, can then start to be brought back to the level of more normal years, which is about 40% of GDP. In an environment in which the world was growing rapidly, that would be easier. In an environment in which the eurozone is blowing up, and there are high fuel and food prices, it becomes much more difficult. That is part of the problem for the Government in the short term. It is events—it is what is happening around the world.

There is nothing surprising about where the Government are. Sticking with the policy is perfectly sensible, but things do not go in a straight line in economics, and there will be OBR forecasts and Budgets where the figures for debt increase, and some where they decrease. It will depend to some extent on world events.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is talking about debt levels. Was not one of the issues under the Labour Government the integrity of the public finances? Their estimates of public sector debt did not include the private finance initiative, which was a grossly exaggerated amount of public benefit, and they did not include the burgeoning increase in public sector pension claims on the economy. Does my hon. Friend agree that another aspect of debt in which the Labour Government’s policies were embedded was increasing the costs that people had to pay for their housing through the ever-increasing impression that housing wealth was real wealth? That has had a real impact on people’s well-being and living standards today.

[Mr Syms]

Clearly, and another problem in the British economy is that there is a lot of private sector borrowing. We have a high level of indebtedness, both of government and of the private sector. In Italy, they save rather more than we do, and as a country we should try to encourage more of our citizens to save and not live on the never-never in the long term.

I support what the Chancellor did in the autumn statement. We are clearly in choppy weather, but that is no reason to change course. We cannot adjust the budget down or raise taxation painlessly. The living standards of most of the population will be squeezed. As the IFS and other organisations have said, living standards have fallen by about 7% over the past two to three years. The good news is that next year the projection is for things to be fairly flat, with some modest recovery after that. It may well be that when we get to 2015—the general election year—we have lower living standards than in 2010 as a consequence of the fact that we have inherited a major deficit, very difficult problems and a pretty rotten international environment. That is no reason for going off course, but it is a reason for sticking to a very sensible policy. Labour Members may think that we cannot do things without breaking eggs, but that is not so. We have to raise the tax burden and reduce spending, and I am afraid that that has consequences.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman said at the beginning that this would have happened under any Government. I congratulate him on his frankness, but the Chancellor is in complete denial about that—he wants to disown the fact that in 2007 and 2008 his policy was to follow Labour’s spending plans. The hon. Gentleman is right and his Chancellor is wrong, and I hope that he will try to get him to be a little more frank in future. No one disagrees about the need to reduce the deficit, but we are cutting more and more and yet the debt is going up way beyond what was predicted because the policy is not working.

[Mr Syms]

We have been in office for only 18 months. It will take six, seven or eight years to stabilise the debt and probably several more to start reducing debt as a proportion of GDP.

I have said some complimentary things about the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West. I rather suspect that had Labour won the general election in 2010 and Labour Members were sitting on the Treasury Bench, they would have a policy not dissimilar from that of the current Government. The seriousness of the problem is demonstrated by the fact that we are acting as a coalition Government. For all my political life, we fought the Liberal Democrats like ferrets in a sack, yet we have managed to find some degree of agreement because of the scale of the economic problems that we face.

The Government’s policy is sensible and measured in trying to do things gradually. That means that it will take a long time to implement, but we will ultimately get to a point where we have managed to reduce debt and get the economy into a much better state. In the short term, as I say, it is going to hurt, but I am afraid that that is a consequence of where we are. I see no other way around that. Tough decisions are necessary. I am glad that the Government—Conservative Ministers and even Liberal Democrat Ministers, to my surprise—have taken some pretty tough decisions. They are doing so for the national interest and for the interests of our children and our grandchildren.

Social Security

Robert Syms Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the damaging impact of youth unemployment, and I hope that he shares my deep regret that it has increased again. It is now the highest that it has been since comparable figures began to be compiled nearly 20 years ago. The highest figure ever recorded was published in the statistics yesterday. I certainly take the view that the Government need to do more to reduce that figure.

The estimate of a hit of £83 billion on defined pension schemes makes it clear that long after the deficit is gone, the Government will be keeping pensioners out of pocket. I fear that the order is the start of a move that will mean that millions of pensioners and other benefit claimants experience a fall in the value of their benefits every year, relative to RPI. If the Government had simply applied the much-vaunted triple lock this year, the basic state pension would be uprated next year far below the RPI level that the previous system would have delivered. That is the problem with the Government’s proposition.

That is not the only Government measure to hit pensioners. The Minister proudly and fairly read out a list of excellent things that the previous Government did for pensioners, which the present Government will not abolish. I am glad that they will not. However, they have increased VAT, which means that pensioner couples will be £275 a year worse off, and single pensioners £125 a year worse off.

The Pensions Bill means that some women approaching retirement will have their state pension delayed by up to two years, with very little time to prepare. That will mean a loss of up to £10,000 in basic state pension, and up to £15,000 for those who would have qualified for pension credit.

My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) asked the Minister previously about an individual’s accrued rights, and I referred to that in response to an earlier intervention. Let me press the Minister again on the same subject. Why has he made such an abrupt U-turn? Before the election, he said:

“We are very clear that all accrued rights should be honoured: a pension promise made should be a pension promise kept. Therefore we would not make any changes to pension rights that have already been built up. I have confirmed that I regard accrued index-linked rights as protected.”

I am sure that the Minister would agree that all those who contracted out—all those in the local government scheme that was mentioned a few minutes ago—did so on the basis that RPI would be used for uprating. On the basis of what the Minister said before the election, those rights should also be protected. They are not; they are being explicitly downgraded in the Government’s proposals.

[Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)]

I am listening carefully to the right hon. Gentleman. Can we be clear about the Labour party’s position? Do you oppose the CPI? Do you oppose it just for this year—or are you in favour this year and next year, but want to go back to the RPI in a future year?

[Stephen Timms]

There is a persuasive case for making a change to CPI uprating for a period of time while we are tackling the deficit. However, I do not agree that that should be a permanent change. That aspect of the Government’s proposal is very damaging.