Oral Answers to Questions

Oliver Heald Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) (Con)]

11. What progress the Government have made on modernising the courts system.

[The Minister for Courts and Justice (Sir Oliver Heald)]

The Government’s reforms will modernise the courts and tribunals system and improve the experience of everyone who comes into contact with it, particularly victims and witnesses, but we need to make sure that the provision of legal support is also updated to reflect the new way the justice system will work. We will work closely with the legal sector, victims and witnesses and others to review across the board the types of support needed in a modernised justice system and produce a Green Paper in the spring of 2018.

[Matt Warman]

Technology can mean that courthouses that were little used and have closed can still allow constituents to get access to justice. Can the Minister confirm that Skegness courthouse is going to receive the kind of technology solution that will allow my constituents still to get access to justice, and that that will not come at a cost to the local police?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

We are working with local interested parties to establish a video link facility for Skegness. That will allow victims and witnesses to give evidence without travelling to Boston.

[Danny Kinahan (South Antrim) (UUP)]

Yesterday, the British-Irish Parliamentary Association heard how well the Garda and the Police Service of Northern Ireland are working together. When we leave the EU, however, it looks as if we will become associate members of Europol, and the Schengen information system is another item that we need to keep together. Will the Minister ensure that we are in either the same place or a better place?

[Danny Kinahan]

I would like to see the modernisation of the courts system.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

Excellent. I would be happy to discuss the issue with the hon. Gentleman or indeed to pass his remarks to the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU to make him aware of the hon. Gentleman’s concerns.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

23. Over the last couple of years, three magistrates courts have been closed in Gloucestershire, the probation service has been divided and the Crown court in Gloucester and the magistrates court in Cheltenham continue to leak, while disabled access to both is poor. The Minister has been sympathetic to those issues. Can he confirm today that action will be taken on the physical condition of the courts and that an assessment will be made of the rehabilitation company’s work?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

Yes. I had a very useful meeting with my hon. Friend, and I can certainly confirm both the points he makes. I am particularly keen to get that skylight fixed for him. I am working hard on that.

[Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab)]

In his reply to the question from the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman), the Minister referred to modernising the tribunal system. Does he agree that part of that modernisation should be getting rid of employment tribunal fees, the introduction of which has led to a cut in the number of employment tribunal cases by two thirds and a cut of more than 80% in sex discrimination cases? Can the Minister announce today that those fees will indeed be abolished as part of access to justice and modernising the system?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have been reviewing employment tribunal fees, and I can say that the publication of that review is imminent. Having said that, there is a difference of opinion across the Chamber on this matter. We think it right that individuals should contribute to the costs of the tribunals. It is also worth bearing in mind that ACAS has increased its workload in employment cases from about 23,000 cases a year—the number it used to conciliate—to 92,000 cases now. The result has been a very large increase in the number of cases that do not then proceed to the tribunal.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

21. Does the Minister agree that, if the UK is to remain at the forefront of legal services worldwide and if the sector is to continue as an engine for jobs and growth, it is vital that our courts system is modern, flexible and fit for the 21st century?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I do agree. We have the best legal system in the world, but we also need to have the most modern one. Getting as many things out of court that do not need to be there, applying the full force of judge and courtroom for the most difficult and complex issues, stripping away unnecessary hearings, redundant paper forms and duplication are all important. I can report that, while two hearings ago, there was a saving of a Shard-load of paper as a result of these reports, that has now gone up to three Shard-loads, so we have saved a pile of paper as high as the Burj Khalifa, the largest building in the world.

[Mr Speaker]

What a well-informed fellow the right hon. and learned Gentleman is.

[Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)]

The new chairman of the Bar Council, Andrew Langdon QC, has warned people not to rely too heavily on the delivery of justice online. Yesterday the President of the Family Division, Sir James Munby, complained that facilities in his courts were a disgrace,

“prone to the link”

—the video link—

“failing and with desperately poor sound and picture quality”.

His own court, Court 33, has no such facilities and no video links. Does the Minister understand that some cases are not suitable for video links, and is he prepared to properly resource the ones that are?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

It is important for the courts to have the facilities that they need, which is the reason for our modernisation programme. As for the concern expressed about open justice, everything will work on the basis that people are able to see what is happening in a virtual hearing, so there will not be any secret justice.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

13. What steps the Government are taking to prepare offenders for life outside prison.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Courts and Justice (Sir Oliver Heald)]

We are committed to reforming our domestic human rights framework, and we will return to our proposals once we know the arrangements for our exit from the European Union.

[Angela Crawley]

In September, the Secretary of State said that she was expecting to meet the Scottish Justice Minister to discuss the repeal of the Human Rights Act in Scotland. How does she plan to guarantee that the proposed British Bill of Rights will not compromise the autonomy of the Scottish legal system?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

The Secretary of State has offered some dates, and I hope it will be possible for the meeting to take place. There will be some time for that now, because, as I have said, we will return to our proposals once we know the arrangements for exit from the EU.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

It is of course right that our manifesto commitment to replace the Human Rights Act remains on the Government’s agenda, but does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that leaving the European Union and freeing the United Kingdom from the bonds of the charter of fundamental rights must be their top priority?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I do agree with that. I think it important for us to sort out the EU side of matters, and the exit from the EU, before we return to that subject.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

20. In Scotland there is strong cross-party support for the European convention on human rights and the Human Rights Act, both in Parliament and throughout civil society. Does the Minister agree that any attempt to repeal existing rights will be likely to provoke a constitutional crisis?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I do not accept that the sort of changes we are proposing to consider once the situation is known about our exit from the EU would be a crisis-making combination. This country has always had a proud respect for human rights; it long predates the Human Rights Act, and I think we can all agree on that.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

15. How many foreign national offenders are in prison; and what steps she is taking to return those people to prison in their own countries.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

22. When she plans to publish her Department’s review of the introduction of employment tribunal fees.

[The Minister for Courts and Justice (Sir Oliver Heald)]

Imminently.

[Paul Blomfield]

The Prime Minister claims she wants to protect workers’ rights. Is not the Government’s fear in publishing this report that it is going to demonstrate that the introduction of fees has negated that process? The Minister earlier said that publication is “imminent”; his predecessor said last July it was “soon”. Can he define the terms and give us a date?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

The hon. Gentleman will not have long to wait; it is genuinely imminent—but it has taken longer than we had hoped.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Tania Mathias (Twickenham) (Con)]

T2. I welcome the Government’s commitment to creating the status of guardian for the property and affairs of a missing person. This is much wanted and much needed by the affected families. Will the Minister tell us when this legislation will be brought before the House?

[The Minister for Courts and Justice (Sir Oliver Heald)]

We welcome the Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) on this subject, because we are determined to provide help to the families left behind when a person goes missing. It is our policy to introduce legislation, but we also now look forward to responding to my hon. Friend’s Bill on Second Reading.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

There are two things that are dangerous for our democracy: attempting to ignore the outcome of the referendum, and standing by while the independence of Britain’s judiciary comes under attack. In the light of that, I welcome the progress that the Secretary of State has made today, under pressure, in speaking up for the independence of our judiciary, but that has not deterred the continuation of the attacks. Will she now, once and for all, condemn the attacks on our judiciary?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Oliver Heald]

My hon. Friend and I have discussed this matter informally. The welfare of the child is always paramount in court decisions, but he will remember that parental involvement provisions were inserted into the Children and Families Act 2014. The courts are now required to presume that a parent’s involvement in the child’s life will further that child’s welfare unless the contrary can be shown.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

T5. All Members will have been appalled by the recent findings of the inquest into the tragic death of Dean Saunders in Chelmsford prison. This was a man in a mental health crisis who should never have been sent to prison, and he was failed by everyone who should have been there to protect him. According to the charity Inquest, he is one of the 113 prisoners who took their life last year. When will the Secretary of State provide a full and frank response to the question of why Dean died?

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

T6. The proposed closure of Camberwell magistrates court would require my constituents—whether victims, witnesses or defendants—to make unacceptably long bus journeys to Croydon and Wimbledon to attend court. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the implications of the proposed closure for access to justice for my constituents?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I thank the hon. Lady for her response to the consultation, which has now closed. We will, of course, announce our decision in due course. As was made clear in the consultation, there is excess capacity in London magistrates courts. Camberwell Green has significant outstanding maintenance, totalling more than £1 million. The consultation is about ensuring modern and efficient courts and improved court arrangements for everyone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Does the Secretary of State recognise that, in relation to the Human Rights Act, the Good Friday agreement requires the European convention on human rights to be directly enforceable in Northern Ireland?

[Sir Oliver Heald]

As the hon. Lady knows, it is important that all matters to do with devolved arrangements are fully considered in that context and, in the light of my announcement today, there will be more time for that.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

T8. Will the Minister outline the support that has been provided to Lewes prison since it went into special measures at the end of last year? Is there any update on the progress that is being made in tackling some of the key issues that put the prison into special measures in the first place?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Ministers will be aware of the disturbing incident that took place recently at Haverfordwest magistrates court, where a defendant, while in the dock, was able to use a sharp object to carry out a serious act of violence against themselves. Will the Secretary of State please commit to looking into what went wrong with the security arrangements at the court? No one should be in a position to do harm to themselves or others in any courtroom in England and Wales.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point about an extremely concerning incident. I have been briefed already, but I have asked for a further report from Her Majesty’s Courts Service on exactly what happened and what measures are necessary to ensure that such an incident does not happen again.

[Mr Speaker]

Let’s have a Berry.