Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Nusrat Ghani Excerpts

Friday 13th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wonder if you can assist me as I am at a loss as to what amendment we are discussing.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I have no doubt that if the right hon. Member gives the hon. Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) a moment, she will address it quickly, because even Members who are contributing do not have long.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am addressing new clause 13, which provides the strict regulation of life-ending substances and self-administering devices. That means there will be transparency about what substances are used and how they are stored, prescribed and delivered. We owe it to patients, clinicians and the public to ensure that every part of the process is governed by clinical standards and ethical safeguards. For those physically unable to swallow or self-ingest, the new clause ensures that devices to support self-administration can be safely used. Without that, we risk creating a system that excludes some of the very people it is meant to support.

While we must regulate the system properly, we must also reject amendments that would undermine or stall the Bill’s delivery. Amendment 19 proposes adding suicide prevention, the Mental Health Act and deprivation of liberty safeguards to the code of practice. As the Minister who put much of that legislation through, those are really important topics for me, but this is not the legislation to address them. Let us keep the code focused on the Bill’s core function of ensuring a safe, consistent and compassionate assisted dying process.

Amendment 20 would allow non-adherence to the code to be used in civil or criminal proceedings. That is not appropriate. Guidance is meant to help professionals navigate difficult decisions, not become a legal trap. If clinicians act negligently, existing law already applies. We should not be creating new liabilities for those acting in good faith in very difficult conditions.

I also oppose amendments 97 and 27, which would require the MHRA to license drugs specifically for assisted dying and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to recommend them. That would make the Bill unworkable.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

As Mr Speaker has already mentioned, in order for everybody to get in—well, in order for most to get in—we need speeches to be shy of six minutes, and interventions to be short. I call Gregory Stafford.

[Gregory Stafford]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am conscious of those comments and will try to limit my remarks to new clause 13 and some of the amendments to it.

The Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the Royal College of Pathologists, the Association for Palliative Medicine and the British Geriatrics Society have all said that there are problems with this Bill, and I have heard nothing from its sponsor, the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater)—despite trying to intervene on her a number of times—about what she has done to ensure that their concerns have been addressed. This brings us directly to a fundamental concern: namely, the means by which assisted death would be carried out under new clause 13. The impact assessment for the Bill recognises that

“The safety and efficacy of those substances used for assisted dying is currently difficult to assess”.

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[Caroline Voaden]

I take issue with some of the language being used. We have heard the words “murder”, “killing” and “suicide”. Twenty-three years ago next week, my husband died of terminal cancer. He was in extreme pain and was given morphine to relieve it. As the pain got worse, he was given more morphine so that he could die gently and not in complete agony. This is about helping people die in a civilised way, and helping their families to not go through the horrendous experience of watching a loved one die in agony. To call it murder and killing is so wrong, and we have a duty to mind our language with this Bill. It is about helping people die quickly and with dignity. It is assisted dying.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Before Dr Spencer resumes, I note that this has been a well-tempered debate. Let us keep it so. We know our constituents are watching.

[Dr Spencer]

I thank the hon. Member for her intervention. Of course there are situations in which a decision to end one’s life is perfectly understandable—indeed, rational. I spent my career looking after people, many of whom presented to me and to medical services with thoughts about wanting to end their life. Many of them had mental illness. Some had terminal illness. The fundamental problem with the Bill is that it has a complete blind spot for those people who are highly vulnerable. It is scandalous that we have got to this point and are still having a debate about the core concepts. The Bill should have been dealt with properly from the start with a royal commission or a review so that we did not get to the point where we are still debating core principles on Report.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. The hon. Lady has made it clear that she is not taking interventions at this time.

[Ellie Chowns]

The evidence shows that it is dying people themselves, facing the end of life, who wish to have the choice. Only small numbers of them will take up that choice, but it is crucial, humane and compassionate for us to offer them the choice. Assisted dying is complementary to palliative care, not contradictory, and this Bill has been through a huge amount of scrutiny—far more than any other Bill in this Session. Therefore, I deeply hope that the House will pass this compassionate, humane, clearly drafted and tightly structured Bill, to offer a dignified death to those who are facing death.

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[Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Before an intervention is taken, may I put it on the record that Members should not be wandering into the Chamber and then very quickly making an intervention? Lots of Members are waiting to speak and to make interventions. Is that the case? Have you been in the Chamber for a while?

[Andrew Pakes]

indicated assent.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Okay, go on.

[Andrew Pakes]

I did use the facilities, Madam Deputy Speaker; I apologise for that. I am a gentleman of an age. [Laughter.]

I thank my hon. Friend for taking an intervention. We are about to reach the 80th anniversary of the landslide 1945 Labour Government, which set the NHS in train, and the 77th anniversary of the NHS. Fundamental to that is her point about the NHS being free at the point of need and being about care, compassion and life. What assessment has she made of how the Bill, if it goes through unamended, will fundamentally challenge that great victory and legacy that Labour Members cherish?

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[Dr Huq]

Will I get more time? [Laughter.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

indicated assent.

[Jess Asato]

I thank my hon. Friend and I recognise the time constraints. On the issue of vulnerable groups, she may know that a letter has been sent about eating disorders but the spokesperson for the Bill’s sponsor dismissed it, saying that the concerns raised were old news. Does she agree that there is a problem with the way the Bill is being run, as so often the concerns and evidence presented by groups have been dismissed out of hand?