Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Gregory Stafford Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 13th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Kim Leadbeater]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the intervention, although I am not sure that it is relevant to the banning of advertising for assisted dying services, which I will try to stay focused on.

[Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Kim Leadbeater]

I am afraid that I am going to have to make some progress, based on the number of Members who wish to speak today.

I thank the hon. Member for West Worcestershire and the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul) for working with me on amendment 73, and I am very pleased that they support it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

As Mr Speaker has already mentioned, in order for everybody to get in—well, in order for most to get in—we need speeches to be shy of six minutes, and interventions to be short. I call Gregory Stafford.

[Gregory Stafford]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am conscious of those comments and will try to limit my remarks to new clause 13 and some of the amendments to it.

The Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the Royal College of Pathologists, the Association for Palliative Medicine and the British Geriatrics Society have all said that there are problems with this Bill, and I have heard nothing from its sponsor, the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater)—despite trying to intervene on her a number of times—about what she has done to ensure that their concerns have been addressed. This brings us directly to a fundamental concern: namely, the means by which assisted death would be carried out under new clause 13. The impact assessment for the Bill recognises that

“The safety and efficacy of those substances used for assisted dying is currently difficult to assess”.

[Peter Prinsley (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Member agree that the barbiturates that we are considering are conventional agents? They have been used in anaesthesia to cause loss of consciousness and suppression of respiration for generations. These are not novel substances.

[Gregory Stafford]

I obviously respect the hon. Gentleman, given his medical background, but as far as I am aware those substances have not yet been used for murdering people, which is what we are going to do here. That leads me neatly on—

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Gregory Stafford]

I will make a little progress before taking another intervention.

No safeguards can prevent complications from taking medicines. As I am sure the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley) knows, there can always be complications. In this case, those could include regurgitation of the drugs, regaining consciousness and seizures.

[Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gregory Stafford]

Can I just finish this point? During the 27 years that the law in Oregon has been in place, data is available for only about 36% of cases. However, within that, 59 incidents of regurgitation are known to have occurred and nine people are known to have regained consciousness. Different drug protocols have been used in those 27 years but the efficacy and safety of the drugs are unknown, with a time range between ingesting the drugs and death ranging from one minute to nearly six days.

The lack of defined protocols for the regulation, supply and administration of life-ending substances is precisely why I have tabled my amendment (c) to new clause 13, tabled by the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater).

[Dr Murrison]

My hon. Friend was right to table his amendment, which I certainly support. Does he agree that the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency would insist that a barbiturate or any other substance used in medicine should be approved for a specific cause? We cannot translate that to a completely different cause or reason for using it. Would he also agree that the way to deal with the issue is for it to be properly regulated through the MHRA?

[Gregory Stafford]

I entirely agree. Some of the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) may address that.

[Sadik Al-Hassan]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gregory Stafford]

I will make a little progress, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment.

My amendment would require the Secretary of State to prohibit the use of medical devices designed to induce death by the administration of gas, such as the Sarco suicide pod, which has been in the press recently. That device bypasses medical oversight entirely and presents an ethical rupture in our current framework. If the Bill proceeds without safeguarding against such methods, we risk opening the door to a deeply troubling precedent—one that would erode professional accountability and compromise the integrity of end-of-life care.

[Sadik Al-Hassan]

I would like to share my expertise as a pharmacist with the hon. Member. Drugs can be used for many indications and are quite commonly used in unlicensed situations, where there would be less evidence to support them than in the situation that we are discussing today with new clause 13: an idea that is incredibly well researched, practised and evidenced in multiple countries.

[Gregory Stafford]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I do not disagree that drugs are used for different things; that is not the thrust of the argument that I am making. What I am saying—relatively clearly, I hope—is that when the drugs we would potentially use in these situations have been used, there have been unintended consequences and side effects. We must ensure that the drugs we use, if the Bill passes, are absolutely effective in what they are intended to carry out: namely, the end of the life of the individual.

[Sir John Hayes]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Gregory Stafford]

This is the last intervention that I will take, as I must make progress.

[Sir John Hayes]

The reason why what my hon. Friend has said is so important is that it is yet another important safeguard, particularly given that, as we learn from analysis in the impact assessment, much of this is outsourced to private organisations. Those organisations need to be regulated in precisely the way he has described.

[Gregory Stafford]

My right hon. Friend is entirely correct.

The Royal College of Physicians has said:

“Medicines prescribed and administered in assisted dying must be regulated for safety and efficacy for this use.”

If that is a requirement of the Royal College of Physicians, we in the House should take it seriously and put it into the Bill.

I will now draw my remarks to a close, but I should say that I also support amendment 99, which would require a report on the drug’s effects before Parliament approves the regulation, as well as a number of the other amendments, which hopefully would remove the wide-ranging Henry VIII powers currently in the Bill. In the light of all that I have said, I remain deeply sceptical as to whether the Bill, in its current state, provides the robust, protective and operationally sound framework that such a profound societal change deserves.

[Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me my first opportunity to speak in the Chamber on this most important of issues. As I do so, I think of all those who were killed in the horrendous plane crash in India yesterday. I think of their families, their friends and the lives they have left behind. May their collective and individual memories be a blessing.

I rise to speak to amendment 42, tabled in my name and those of more than 60 colleagues from the majority of parties in the House, representing constituencies in all four nations of our United Kingdom. It would remove the automatic commencement of the Bill’s provisions in England. It is a safeguard, good and proper.

As it stands, the entire assisted dying process will commence automatically in England four years after the Bill is passed. Notwithstanding some of the comments we have heard, that will happen regardless of how far along the plans and preparations are—plans for the manufacturing and supply of the drugs that will be used to end the life of anyone who chooses this step; for the identification and training of those on the panel; for the impact on the national health service in England and Wales and its budgets; and all the rest.

Colleagues will know that, as the Bill was originally drafted, the process would have commenced two years after it was passed. I welcome the fact that my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) amended that period from two years to four. That was a genuinely welcome acknowledgment that such a serious and consequential change to every aspect of our country, from our healthcare system to our legal system, should not, must not and cannot be rushed. Therein lies the basis of my amendment. If this change is going to happen, let us do it properly. Let us not impose a timeframe that puts us in a bind—one that means we are driven by timing over purpose, and the pressure that comes with a ticking clock, rather than by the need to do it properly.

People living in Newcastle-under-Lyme and York Outer, in Buckingham and Bletchley and Pembrokeshire, are counting on us parliamentarians—those of us who are concerned about assisted dying and those who passionately support it. The Bill’s supporters have won every single vote, apart from on this issue in Committee. Our people are counting on us to make sure, if the Bill passes, that it is a success, that it will be consistent and, most importantly, that it will be safe. If the Bill passes, it will introduce assisted dying in the biggest jurisdiction yet by population. These are uncharted waters; this will not be like anything else. The last thing we should do is rush this process.

In Committee, the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), who spoke excellently earlier today, tabled an amendment to remove the automatic commencement deadline for Wales. It provided that assisted dying could be rolled out only once Welsh Ministers deemed that everything was ready for a safe roll-out. The Committee voted by a majority to give that extra safeguard to the people of Wales. If it was good enough for the people of Wales in Committee, it is good enough for the people of England today. We face a situation in which assisted dying may proceed in England months or even years before it does in Wales. The provisions and systems may look different. The process of organising the English system to meet the arbitrary four-year deadline would almost certainly lead to rushed decision making.

My hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley has sought to remedy the disparity, but her solution is not to extend to my constituents in England the safeguard that the members of the Bill Committee—members that she appointed—voted for. No, her remedy is to allow for automatic commencement to happen in Wales as well, removing the safeguard that the Committee voted for. The answer is not to fast-track the roll-out of assisted dying in both England and Wales, potentially putting the lives of some of the most vulnerable at even greater risk due to rushed decisions that are not fully thought through.

I have not been on these Benches for very long, but I know that arguing for the automatic commencement of legislation is generally, in the kindest interpretation, unusual. For legislation of this magnitude it is, I am afraid to say, reckless, and reinstating automatic roll-out in Wales when the Committee explicitly voted against it borders on the undemocratic.