Housing Benefit (Wales)

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 1st May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Steve Webb]

No. For example, when the Labour Government introduced the principle that private sector tenants with a spare room should have to pay for it, they did not describe the measure as a bedroom tax, so I do not see why a similar one for a social tenant should be.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Webb]

No, I will not, because I have two hours of questions to answer, and I want to answer them.

On the role of discretionary housing payments, several speakers, including the hon. Members for Newport East (Jessica Morden), for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) and for Swansea East (Mrs James), mentioned the pressures in their area on the DHP budget. Let us go through the facts, because people might be thinking, “This is terrible. The Government have been withholding funds for local authorities.” Let me make it clear what has happened.

At the start of 2013-14, the figure for DHPs in Wales was £6.9 million; at the start of 2014-15, it was £7.9 million. All of us accept that those are substantial sums of money. We did not leave it at that, however, and one of the themes of the debate is whether we are monitoring and listening and then refining the policy. We listened in two important areas.

We first listened to the position of Welsh and Scottish—mainly—local authorities. We accepted the point also made by my hon. Friends the Members for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) and others that remote rural areas have particular issues. We therefore allocated additional funding. In Wales, that was £143,000 to Ceredigion, £449,000 to Gwynedd and £387,000 to Powys. Interestingly, my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire said what a good job Powys had done as a local authority—I pay tribute to it—and one of the reasons it could do so is because the Government had recognised the additional pressures on remote rural areas and come up with the funding. He can therefore report back to the House that it was not largely an issue in his area, because we had monitored what was happening, responded and dealt with it.

We did not leave matters there. We had a national or GB-wide allocation and a remote rural areas allocation, but there might still be acute local circumstances requiring still more funding, so we came up with an additional £20 million pot and invited bids for funding from it. Three Welsh local authorities applied and were given money: Cardiff, Conwy and Caerphilly. No other local authority in Wales asked us for a penny. We cannot simultaneously say that there is unmet need in Newport, Swansea and other areas, and that local authorities are having to turn needy people away, when those authorities did not ask us for the money to top up their DHP budget to such an extent that central Government had unspent additional DHP pot still available for local authorities to claim.

What are those authorities doing? I have no reason to doubt the hon. Members who spoke, but if it is the case that they have constituents for whom the impact of the change has been inappropriate, harsh or unfair—many words have been used—what were their local authorities doing not drawing down the additional money that was available and that was not contingent on matched funding? We did not say to local authorities, “Ask us for more money—but only if you put more in”; we simply said, “Do you need more money?”, and only three Welsh local authorities asked for it.

A number of other issues were raised during the debate and I will respond to one or two. We are being told that allocations are now not based on need. Why is it appropriate to say to private tenants, “Your housing benefit may only cover a house of the size you need,” but not to say the same to social tenants? Why should we not say it to both? When I have challenged the Opposition about when Labour introduced what they now describe as a bedroom tax, but for private tenancies, they say it was for future tenancies and so it was fine. When we intervene on them and ask whether the policy would be fine for future social tenants, Labour Members mumble and go quiet, because they have no answer.

[Nick Smith]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Webb]

No, I will not. Labour cannot explain why it is right to say that private tenants have to pay for the size of the house that they live in, but that social tenants should not have to. Some suggestions were made about our views on excluding pensioners from the measure. They are generally excluded because, for example, expecting them to take work would be unrealistic. We have excluded pensioners for that reason, but it is pretty obvious why the Labour party wants to exclude social tenants, but not private tenants.

Someone said during the debate that we cannot both save money and make better use of the housing stock, but we are doing both of those things. The original estimated savings from the measure for the whole country of some £0.5 billion remains our expected order of magnitude. In addition, some people are moving to more suitable accommodation and freeing up accommodation for the people whose voice never gets heard—as has been said in the debate.

Work Programme (Wales)

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 1st May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I am pleased to be able to speak in this debate, Mr Betts. Well done to the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs for its report, and to its Chair for presenting the report.

Unemployment in Blaenau Gwent remains stubbornly high. In March, adult unemployment was 8% and youth unemployment was 11.8%, nearly double the Wales average of 6.4%. As a member of the Public Accounts Committee, I have become only too familiar with the hapless track record of the Department for Work and Pensions in recent months. It has botched the introduction of the new personal independence payment and the management of its flagship universal credit system has been wasteful, with at least £140 million written off. When the Public Accounts Committee reviewed the Work programme last year, we found extremely poor performance. Only 3.6% of people referred to it moved off benefit and into work—less than a third of the Department’s target. None of the providers managed to meet their minimum performance targets: the best provider moved just 5% of people off benefit and into work, while the worst managed a miserly 2%.

The Public Accounts Committee found that the Work programme was failing young people in particular. The Welsh Affairs Committee has said the Work programme’s success in helping those with the most severe barriers to employment has “yet to be proven.” I therefore hope that the DWP will look seriously at how we can help young people and those with complex needs in a valleys employment market where jobs are scarce.

To be fair, the Welsh Affairs Committee is

“broadly encouraged that the Work programme’s performance has been improving over time, both in Wales and Great Britain.”

Although I understand that this is a difficult agenda, given that the programme’s first year performance was actually worse than the Department’s own expectations, the only way is up, is it not?

To give a tangible example, one employer contacted me with concerns about his Work programme employee. The employer had spoken to the employee’s Work programme adviser regarding help with the cost of travel to work and of work clothing and equipment. The employer understood that four weeks of travel costs and full work equipment costs would be met. In the event, the travel costs were capped at £50 per week and the work equipment costs were capped at £300, although the total cost was £450.

The employer was clear: the Work programme provider failed to give accurate and unambiguous advice to its client. The employer thinks the Work programme provider is preventing a young man from moving forward in his line of work and hindering his future work. I share that view. It is living in cloud cuckoo land to expect the young unemployed to pay up front for the tools they may need for a placement.

The Welsh Affairs Committee found that both Working Links Wales and Rehab JobFit were near the bottom of performance tables when compared with the other 38 providers across Great Britain. I hope that the Minister will look carefully at how their performance can be improved to meet the needs of the unemployed in Wales, as the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee said.

The Work programme will not anyway work in isolation. Other important measures are needed in the eastern valleys of south Wales. Our train infrastructure needs electrifying. Good public service jobs need to be based in the borough of Blaenau Gwent, and educational attainment must be improved in the round. We know that the Work programme in Wales is failing to deliver, so tackling long-term unemployment will be a top priority for the next Labour Government. As we know from the 1980s, long-term unemployment has a scarring effect on individuals and communities. It damages our economy and society, and builds up long-term costs for the taxpayer. Before those things happen, the Government must do better.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Esther McVey)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I thank everyone who has taken part in the debate and the Chair of the Select Committee for forcing an issue, raising a point and ensuring that both Governments work together on an important issue. We all want to see more people in work, particularly people who have been long-term unemployed. What specific support do we give them? I think that it is key that we compare like with like. We are looking at people who have been long-term unemployed and the support that we are giving them. It is a fake comparison that is being made with Jobs Growth Wales, because that deals with people who are entitled to get the support from day one when they are claiming, not a set of people who have to have been long-term unemployed.

If we look at the journey of an individual who ends up on the Work programme, we see that they have been unemployed for a year, whereas 90% of people would have got a job or stopped claiming JSA within a year. What we are considering today is the 10% of people who are the most difficult to get into work and what tailored support we need to give them. A fake comparison is being made between the two. It is not correct, because what we are seeing, particularly with young people who have been on JSA, is that more than 90% would have got a job anyway. I think that not comparing the two is key. We are talking today about the long-term unemployed and how we get the extra support to them.

Quite correctly, it has been said today that what has happened in Wales has not been as good as what has been happening in the rest of the country. Why is that? What issues have been hampering the support that needs to go to the long-term unemployed there? That has been the difference between national schemes and devolved schemes. How do we get better alignment of those? What has Wales decided to prioritise that has not worked as well as what has been happening in the rest of the UK?

I am pleased to say—the Welsh Affairs Committee has to take great credit for this—that we are working together. The report was published in November, and I met Ken Skates in November and January. The DWP is working with the Welsh Government now. We straight away set up a working group and are taking that forward. In the letter that came to me from Ken Skates and in the statement that came out, he sets out the key points. He says straight away that there must be better alignment and better use of what is coming through the skills funding. How do we do that? I understand his concern that funding must not be duplicated, but how is it then that we manage to utilise the ESF funding so that there is no duplication and, as is the case in the UK, it can be used in the way intended?

Those are the key things that we are working on together now, and we want the same outcome. We have a team working on it. The key priorities are ensuring that Work programme participants can access apprenticeship opportunities, to ensure that we get the essential skills provision that is there and that we manage to support these long-term unemployed people. That is what we have been aiming at for a long time, and that is what they are now doing. A pilot scheme is in place to utilise what we are doing in the UK to ensure that it happens in Wales. In only a few months, we have come a significant way, and all credit has to go to Ken and his team for that.

When I look at the numbers for the long-term unemployed, I see that they are coming down. When we look at the job statistics across the UK and in Wales, we see that we have very good employment figures at the moment. We are at record highs for the number of people in employment. I do not think that we can run that down. It is happening nationally and also in Wales. Let us look at what is happening in Wales. Employment in Wales is up by 41,000 over the past year. Unemployment in Wales is down by 19,000 over the last year and down by 6,000 in the last quarter. The long-term claimant count in Wales is down by 2,600 in the last year, too. When I look at the figures for the various seats, I see that in Llanelli long-term unemployment is down by 13% in the past year. Long-term youth unemployment is down by 35%. When I look across to Newport East, I see that, again, the figures are down. That is what we are all aiming for; it is what we want to see.

[Nick Smith]

Does the Minister accept that 85% of people on the Work programme are not getting into work?

[Esther McVey]

We can look at it that way. We know that we are getting 20-odd per cent. into work. We can put either a negative slant on it, as the hon. Gentleman does, or a positive slant on it, as I would. These are people who are very long-term unemployed. Some of them could have been unemployed for 10 years. The journey that they are embarking on is massive. Some of the people are not measured on getting a job. It is about their journey to getting closer to getting a job, and what a journey some of the people I read about have gone on! They have had severe depression and anxiety and have not worked for 10 years. They have lost their confidence and self-esteem. Then I see that at the end of the day they have got a job. That is incredible not only for them, but for their families and communities. For some people, I am afraid to say, that journey will be longer. We hoped that it would be shorter, but what they have done in the two years is significant. That is why there is Help to Work afterwards, to say, “How can we help you even more?” We are starting to get to know these people now and know what their issues and concerns are. Do they need more numeracy skills; do they need more literacy skills; or is it about confidence and health issues? How do we deal with those and take people forward?

I see that time is tight and I want to talk about what we have specifically been doing in Wales and how we have got continuous improvement. We have set up a best practice group. What is working? How do we take that forward? How do we align things? How do we ensure that people are doing the best in their area? Let me mention some of the things. A Welsh provider, Rehab JobFit, has created an additional specialist fund of £160,000 to better support claimants with more complex needs, increasing the use of the specialist provision within its supply chain. It is also rolling out a programme of pre-employment training that will be helpful in supporting some of its hardest-to-help claimants in north Wales. Working Links has taken on new specialist consultants, who are working with employers to promote the benefits of taking on Work programme claimants. That has increased job opportunities and allowed the building of strong and meaningful relationships with employers in getting the right people into work. Yes, we are monitoring them very closely. Yes, we are saying, “What is working in other parts of the country? How can you do the same thing?” Fundamentally, what was hampering the Work programme in Wales was the inability to get on to the skills funding. What we are doing now is aligning things. Our DWP team are working with the Wales Office to understand what is additionality, how people there can do what the UK is doing and how it will not impinge on their funding. I think that that is key.

When we are talking about youth employment, I have to say that I cannot agree with what the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) said. We see that the claimant count for young unemployed people has gone down for 22 months in a row and that youth unemployment has gone down for seven consecutive months. When we see the figures, we see that his portrayal of them is incorrect, because now there are fewer young people unemployed than there were at the time of the general election. I hope that I have answered some of the points that were made. I will now give the floor to the Chair of the Select Committee, who has done such a tremendous job.

Personal Independence Payments (Wales)

Nick Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 9th April 2014 Westminster Hall

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

One of my disabled constituents was given a two-week assessment slot that had already elapsed. According to the media, civil servants are now helping Capita to deal with the backlog. Does my hon. Friend agree that this botched benefit is causing nothing but distress throughout the country, and that the implementation of PIP has been a total shambles?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. Indeed, when the Prime Minister announced that the system would change to migrate those on disability living allowance to a personal independence payment, surely that was not part of the promises he made. When PIP was first introduced last year, surely the waiting times, the missed calls and the assessments for which staff have failed even to turn up were not part of the deal. In the debate today and whenever we discuss PIP in Wales, we are talking about real people—people with serious health conditions and real individuals with real families, who are desperately struggling.

I am certain that it is hard enough to fight cancer without having to fight Capita and, by extension, the Department for Work and Pensions. Capita is letting down people in real need. The Government are letting struggling people down by not stepping in and getting the mess sorted out. Waiting times for assessment have been so long that, in some cases, people with terminal conditions have died before receiving a penny—and yet Capita remains in place and the Department for Work and Pensions has not even imposed a fine. This is a scandal of national proportions.

Some of the most vulnerable people in Wales are being let down—and yet every single taxpayer throughout our land is being asked to foot the bill for a totally inadequate service. For the sake of my constituents in Gwynfryn and Penycae, and people everywhere in Wales, I urge the Government to take action now. It is time that the Department for Work and Pensions did its job. And it is time that the relationship with Capita was sorted out, or for that company to be given the boot.

Quality Workplace Pensions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

The hon. Gentleman is right. One of the problems, as with transparency, is that we do not know enough about the nature of these schemes and what the charges are. In some cases, they are high-charging but come with guarantees, so people are getting something for their money. An audit is going on at the moment. The pensions industry is having to produce a lot of information about all these schemes. That is often very difficult because pension companies have been bought, sold and merged; just getting the data is the first challenge. As soon as we know exactly what is going on and what further measures we can take to improve the welfare of consumers, I assure him we will do so.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

We have heard today that the independent audit on legacy and older pension schemes is still in hand. When will the further reforms that the Minister is talking about be brought forward, because there are some very high costs in these schemes?

[Steve Webb]

I agree. I have already met the chair of the new audit committee, and one of my senior officials serves on it. This work is now under way. Providers are being asked for data. That represents a significant cost to them, but we need those data. The deadline for that work is the end of this year. I have talked about some measures being taken years down the track, but this work will be completed this year. We will not just sit and wait until a letter arrives on my desk on Christmas day, or whatever. We are keeping close to the review, and as we learn from it and decide what action we can take, we will do so as soon as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vaizey]

I think that my hon. Friend has made his point very effectively.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T5. Power sellers are purchasing thousands of tickets to top musical and sporting events online within seconds and selling them on minutes later for massive mark-ups. What are the Government doing to stop this distortion of the market and to stop fans being ripped off?

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I get people coming to see me at my surgery about exactly the same situation, but the vast majority of assessments are going through and we are trying very hard. We must make sure we get it right. There were issues of quality, which caused the delays, and we are addressing those. That is why the benefit is being phased in, and as we go through we will get a better result for our constituents across the House.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

14. How many people are currently claiming universal credit.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

18. What recent progress his Department has made on the roll-out of universal credit.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)]

Since October, universal credit has started running in Hammersmith, Rugby and Inverness and it is rolling out today in Harrogate and Bath. It is already out in a number of other centres up in the north-west. Based on caseload projections, some 6,000-plus people are likely to be paid universal credit in the pathfinder. That will be subject to confirmation in the official statistics. Many more claim jobseeker’s allowance using the key elements of universal credit, which are also being rolled out to a wider audience. Some 270,000 jobseekers are now using elements such as the claimant commitment, which is part of universal credit.

[Nick Smith]

Well, the Secretary of State is certainly going faster than universal credit.

Under the Government’s original timetable 1 million people would be receiving universal credit by April this year. When does the Secretary of State now expect this 1 million target to be met?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I have said constantly and I continue to say that we will not be giving out targets for dates. As I said earlier, roll-out has begun. I invite the hon. Gentleman to go to any one of the centres and talk to the staff there and to the claimants. He will find that what is happening is a real improvement in their seeking work and getting work, and in the advisers being able to apply themselves to those with the greatest difficulty. Universal credit will have rolled through by 2016, as I said, with all those benefits merged into one, and people will be claiming universal credit, not any other benefit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

The total figure for the fall in the number of workless households has been in the order of 17%. The position we inherited was that it had not fallen for 30 years and approximately 2.5 million children were living in such households. That number has fallen by several hundred thousand—a clear change and a clear improvement for the public and those going back to work.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T5. Can the Secretary of State guarantee that there will be no further delays to his roll-out of universal credit?

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

11. When he expects all new claimants to be on universal credit across the UK.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

16. When he expects all new claimants to be on universal credit across the UK.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)]

Within the time scales set out, our priority is to deliver universal credit safely and securely, and we will set out our plans in more detail in a couple of weeks.

[Mr Duncan Smith]

As I said in my earlier answer, I ordered a reset so that we do not have difficulties when we start to roll out the scheme. We have rolled out the pathfinder already. It is important to note that there have been at least six sites from October, and there will be many more around the country when we expand that. As I said, I will make clear to the House the plan and programme for the full roll-out, all the way through to complete delivery, in detail in the next couple of weeks.

[Nick Smith]

The Public Accounts Committee found that leadership of the universal credit programme was hapless. Will the Secretary of State tell us who is responsible for that blunder?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I already take full responsibility for everything that goes on in my Department. I have to say that I take responsibility for making sure that universal credit as originally planned was stopped and reset. Before anybody was affected, we made absolutely sure that when we roll it out, as we have begun and will continue to do, it will deliver maximum benefits of more than £38 billion to the public.

I take no lessons from the Opposition, who spent years rolling out programmes regardless of how they affected people—a disaster on IT for tax credits and a disaster on the health service. A little bit of humble pie on their part might not be a bad thing.

Housing Benefit

Nick Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

I draw the House’s attention to my entries in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, including the chairmanship of a social housing provider.

This is a cruel policy, based on an unsound and in some respects fraudulent premise. It is cruel because it is causing anxiety, fear and misery to large numbers of people who have done nothing wrong. It is cruel because it is deepening poverty and deprivation in an arbitrary and unfair way, and because the large majority of those who are adversely affected by it can do nothing to mitigate its impact.

The policy is also cruel because it conflicts with basic human instincts, such as the instinct of a parent to have their children to come to stay at the weekend if they normally live with a former partner elsewhere. There is also a basic human instinct for a disabled person to have a carer stay overnight from time to time, or to have a spare bedroom for medical needs such as dialysis.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

A constituent of mine is unable to share a bed with his wife due to his painful disability. The bedroom tax will leave his family £9.52 a week worse off. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the bedroom tax pays scant regard to the pain that it causes?

[Mr Raynsford]

My hon. Friend makes an obvious and clear point that illustrates one of the deeply unfair and cruel impacts of the policy.

The policy runs against basic human nature when teenage children are told that they cannot expect to have a bedroom of their own, particularly at a time when those in charge of education are emphasising the importance of children having a bedroom in which to do their homework, so that they can do well at school.

Remploy

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Esther McVey]

My hon. Friend makes a terrific point. This is all about awareness, and it is important to understand that only 3% of people are born with disabilities but most of us will acquire one during our life, probably in our 40s and 50s, so we have to do what we can because we all have a vested interest. On my hon. Friend’s specific point, we will be holding a disability employment event in July, bringing together some of the biggest employers locally, nationally and internationally to ask them, “What are you doing, how do we spread best practice, and what can we do to support you?”

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

How many employees at Remploy in Abertillery, closed last year, have now got jobs? Unfortunately, as of December, just three out of 21 had jobs.

[Esther McVey]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right. There were 35, actually, in December who had a job, and because of that we completely reshaped the process, so now, he will be pleased to know, 400 people have a job, 328 are in training, and that is out of the 1,100 who came forward for support.