Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Hoban Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

3. What assessment he has made of the most recent data on the performance of the Work programme.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

Work programme performance has significantly improved; it is working. The numbers of people finding lasting work—at least six months for most people or three months for the hardest to help—has increased significantly from 9,000 in March 2012 to 132,000 in March 2013.

[Barbara Keeley]

Recent data on the Work programme show that it has failed to meet its minimum performance level in every category, and that the proportion of employment and support allowance claimants achieving a sustained job was less than a third of the minimum. Every week, I hear from unemployed people in my constituency who are desperate to find a job, and they are being utterly let down by this programme. What is the Minister going to do about it?

[Mr Hoban]

I just point out that in the hon. Lady’s area, the Work programme is exceeding its targets for young people aged between 18 and 24. She should get to grip with the facts on what is happening with the Work programme. It is helping people into work, and particularly in her area. On the point about ESA claimants, she should not forget that when her party was in government, it wrote those people off. This is the first time we have had a major programme to get people who have been out of work through sickness or ill health back into employment. More work needs to be done, but what we are doing is a significant improvement on how the Labour Government abandoned those people in the past.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

Will the Minister join me in welcoming the improvements in performance of the Work programme providers that cover my constituency of Amber Valley? Notwithstanding that, there are clearly some areas of concern. Will the Department now use the market shift mechanism to make sure that those who are not succeeding will have more encouragement to improve in the future?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is right. Although performance has improved significantly, more progress is needed. We aim to reward the best providers by shifting more referrals to them, and that will start happening on 1 August. At that time, at least 14 market share shifts will take place to encourage good performers and to send a message to those who are performing badly.

[Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab)]

The Minister must be disappointed by the figures relating to employment and support allowance. The people concerned were not abandoned by the last Government; there was a programme called Pathways to Work, and the figures were far better then than they have been during the two years of the Work programme. Will the Minister please look into what is happening to this cohort with a sense of urgency? These people are being let down.

[Mr Hoban]

I disagree with the hon. Lady’s presumption that they are being let down. I have ensured that each provider has an action plan. We have also set up a “best practice group” to share information about what is working well, and to ensure that each provider gives the best possible service to this important group of people.

[George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con)]

A couple of weeks ago I met George Gallop of A4e, who runs the Work programme in Southampton. He introduced me to two young people whose lives had been utterly transformed by the programme. It was truly inspirational. Does the Minister agree that we should be celebrating such successes, and spreading the techniques employed by Mr Gallop more widely around the country?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is right. One important thing that we can all do is visit Work programme providers in order to understand what they are doing. I have been doing that since I took over this job in September. It is clear that lives are being transformed, and that people who might otherwise have been out of work for years are gaining employment as a consequence of the programme. We need to learn from what is successful, and spread best practice throughout the country.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

What does the Minister plan to do with people who come out at the other end of the Work programme? According to a letter that I have received from my local branch of Jobcentre Plus, the programme’s intensive regime will reduce the number of people on benefits, but will not increase the number of those in work. Will the Minister assure us that the activities involved in following up people who have been left without work on the programme will not include bullying them off benefits, and will include getting them into work?

[Mr Hoban]

It was the hon. Lady’s party, when it was in government, that established targets for sanctions on jobseekers—targets that the present Government scrapped.

A range of measures exist to support those who are leaving the Work programme and bring them closer to employment. However, we are also asking people to go into the jobcentre every day in order to receive one-to-one support, and I think we shall find that that is very effective.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

A4e tells me that 38% of its Work programme clients in the east midlands are aged between 18 and 24, and that one of the biggest challenges that they face is the provision of inadequate or irregular transport services in rural areas, and bad bus services in particular. Is the Minister aware of that problem, and what work can he do with the Department for Transport to deal with it?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend has raised an issue that applies to a number of areas. Work programme providers, Jobcentre Plus, employers and transport companies have worked together well to improve transport links, and to ensure that as many people as possible can travel to a job that enables them to look after themselves and their families.

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

4. What contribution his Department has made to strengthening the social investment market.

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[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

7. What assessment he has made of the performance of the Work programme in helping young people into work.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

Just under half the young people who had been on the Work programme for a year had work, and over 46,000 had had more than six months of work.

[Richard Fuller]

I do not know whether the Minister is as disappointed as I am at the sniping negativity of Labour MPs towards the Work programme, when what they should be doing is rolling up their sleeves and making it work in their constituencies. In that spirit, will the Minister applaud the 50 small businesses in Bedford which, working in conjunction with the two Work programme providers, will on 11 July be giving 200 young people the equivalent of a day of speed-dating interviews to give them a good restart in their careers?

[Mr Hoban]

That is a fantastic example of how local employers can work with the Work programme to deliver good outcomes for people and get them into work.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

From this month, hundreds of jobseekers, including young people, will be returned to jobcentres. The DWP originally said they would be asked to come in weekly, but I think I heard the Secretary of State say they will be coming in daily, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that new jobseekers will be coming in weekly. The problem here is that the National Audit Office has said job advisers are seeing far more jobseekers than ever before, that the time they spend with jobseekers is down, and that the DWP budget fell by 9% in last week’s spending review. Is this not just a lot of hot air? Is it not something that is not actually going to happen?

[Mr Hoban]

I remind the hon. Lady that over the last seven months the number of jobseekers has fallen. She has not welcomed that, but it is good news for her constituents and for people across the country. We want to make sure Jobcentre Plus advisers offer a good quality service. They do that, and I am very disappointed that a member of the Select Committee cannot see fit to thank Jobcentre Plus advisers for their hard work.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that job vacancies are at their highest level since 2008?

[Mr Hoban]

Indeed, they are at their highest level since 2008. That is why we have record numbers of people in work, record numbers of women in work, and a record number of hours worked. It is about time the Opposition welcomed that.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

In the invitation to tender for the Work programme, the Minister’s Department said it expected providers significantly to exceed the minimum standards it had set out, but the facts are that they have not even reached the minimum standards, including for young people getting back into work, and that about half the providers have not even met the standards his Department said would be met without a programme in place. Is not the Minister even a tiny bit embarrassed?

[Mr Hoban]

I am pleased to be able to say that performance is improving. Across the country the performance of Work programme providers has improved, and about half of providers have significantly exceeded the minimum standards. That is why people are getting into work; that is why we are seeing lives transformed. I wish the Opposition would stop carping and congratulate the work the providers are doing to get people into work.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

18. Until recently, a significant part of the labour market, including young people, was referred to as unemployable. May I congratulate my hon. Friend and the Secretary of State on challenging this deeply negative assumption? To be getting 132,000 previously unemployed people into employment is a considerable achievement. Does my hon. Friend agree that the payment-by-results model has been instrumental in this achievement?

[Mr Hoban]

Under previous schemes, money was paid upfront to providers without much attention being paid to whether people got jobs and work. Under this scheme, the interests of taxpayers, the unemployed and providers are closely aligned, because providers get paid only if they get people into work for six months.

[Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

8. If he will take steps to ensure that work capability assessments better meet the needs of people with mental health problems.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

We recognise the challenges in accurately assessing people with mental health conditions, and the potential vulnerability of such claimants. The previous Government built safeguards into the work capability assessment. We have introduced further improvements to ensure the process deals with people with mental health conditions fairly and accurately.

[Heidi Alexander]

In recent months, I have been in contact with a number of constituents with mental health conditions who tell me that the work capability assessment fails to recognise the nature and severity of their problems. In the light of the recent court case in which it was ruled that the current assessment process discriminates against those with mental health problems and autism, will the Minister stop the transfer of people with mental health conditions from incapacity benefit to employment and support allowance until the system is fixed for that group?

[Mr Hoban]

It is important to ensure that we get the right support in place for people. Not long after ESA was introduced under the previous Government, 33% of people with a mental health condition received the support allowance, but under this Government the figure has increased to 43%, so more people are getting the right support as a consequence of this assessment.

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

Will the Minister encourage a scheme that Mind had—the “way to work” campaign—under which people with spasmodic mental health illnesses could work flexibly? It was not taken up as well as it could have been by employers, and it would help people who are assessed as having periods of good health as well as ill health.

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend rightly says that we need to find ways to help people with mental health conditions, and other conditions, back into employment—the work we do under the Work programme is part of that, but other interventions are also being made—because there is a strong link between work and good health outcomes.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

23. Given today’s launch of Rethink’s Unfair WCA campaign, when will the Minister finally decide whether to implement the changes to the descriptors recommended over a year ago by the mental health charities?

[Mr Hoban]

Work is going on at the moment to test those descriptors, and we are working closely with the charities. Today also marks the launch of the call for evidence of the fourth independent review of the WCA, which recognises our commitment to improving on the system we inherited from the previous Government.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

Will the Minister examine the way in which people with mental and physical health problems are assessed before they are placed in their WCA, specifically by Seetec in my part of the world? Will he examine how appropriate the placement is after they have started, because in my experience such placements are often inappropriate and therefore do not benefit anybody at the end of the exercise?

[Mr Hoban]

The Work programme does not undertake the assessments; they are undertaken as part of the ESA process. It is in the interests of providers to ensure that they get people placed with the right employer, because that maximises the chance of that person staying in work and, thus, the provider getting paid for the right outcomes.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

In May, Dr Greg Wood, an Atos-appointed doctor, made a series of specific allegations about failings in the WCA process as he saw it, as a doctor working for Atos. I asked the Prime Minister to investigate and I received a reply from the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions this week that made absolutely no reference to the specific allegations that have been raised. Does the Minister understand that one reason why there is such a lack of confidence in the Atos test is this complacent, contemptuous disregard for, and head-in-the-sand attitude towards, what is happening in the system?

[Mr Hoban]

I just point out to the hon. Gentleman that, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), today we have launched a call for evidence for the fourth independent review of the WCA. That demonstrates our commitment to ensuring that we get this right, so that people get the right support, and that we continue to deliver the right outcomes for people going through this process.

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

It is encouraging that over the past three years the number of people with mental health conditions who have been put into the support group has trebled. Does the Minister agree, however, that we need constantly to monitor the effectiveness of the WCA, perhaps by working with mental health charities, to make sure that it is suitable for people with fluctuating mental health conditions?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is because we are committed to continuing to improve the whole process that we work with mental health charities. Since coming to office, I have had several meetings with charities to talk about what we can do, and this is why we are currently going through the process of assessing alternative descriptors, particularly for those with fluctuating conditions and mental health issues.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

9. What progress he has made on supporting disabled people back into work.

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[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made of the operation of work capability assessments; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

The work capability assessment is aimed at ensuring people out of work through ill health or disability get the support they need. It is under regular review and today the call for evidence for the fourth review is being launched.

[Jessica Morden]

In recent weeks, it seems that more of my constituents have been put in the work-related activity group without even having a face-to-face assessment. Will the Minister confirm whether the use of discretionary powers is increasing and will he reassure me that that is not a case of cutting corners to clear a backlog?

[Mr Hoban]

It depends on the information provided and if claimants are providing good-quality information through the ESA50, they can be referred without a face-to-face assessment. I would also point out that the proportion of people going into the support group has increased in recent times, particularly as a consequence of not using face-to-face assessments.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

11. What steps he is taking to encourage jobcentres to work with local employers and voluntary organisations.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

Jobcentre Plus has a national network of employer relationship and partnership staff whose task is to work collaboratively with voluntary organisations to support more people back to work and encourage and support employers to open up their vacancies to the unemployed.

[Jesse Norman]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Newton Farm community association in my constituency has signed up a number of high-profile local people from both the private and the public sectors to mentor unemployed people in Herefordshire. Will he join me in congratulating the association and commending that spirit of self-help and mutual support? Will he also consider ways in which the Government can use jobcentres to offer further support to that and similar mentoring programmes?

[Mr Hoban]

I can not only join in the congratulations but say that the local jobcentre has a positive relationship with the Newton Farm community association. We want to do more work with local organisations to encourage people into work, and we are keen to support them in any way we can.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Many smaller voluntary organisations and social enterprises that signed up for the Work programme have had appalling experiences—some not even receiving a single referral—and they complain of being the fig leaf of local engagement for large companies, even though they know the local skills and job market best. What will the Minister do to improve their experience?

[Mr Hoban]

The Work programme providers argued for freedom and flexibility over who to contract with, but we have introduced the Merlin standard to govern the relationship between Work programme contractors and their subcontractors. If organisations have concerns about the way they have been treated by the Work programme providers, they should refer those concerns to the Merlin committee.

[Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

Will the Minister join me in congratulating Jobcentre Plus in the Beverley and Holderness area on working closely with me in organising a jobs fair, which hundreds of local people attended; on the part it has played in ensuring that Beverley and Holderness has one of the highest figures on apprentice starts in the country; and on the fact that unemployment is now 3.5%? There has been a 20% drop in youth unemployment in my constituency in the past year.

[Mr Hoban]

I will join my hon. Friend in congratulating his local Jobcentre Plus on the work it has done. Jobcentre Plus does an excellent job in helping people into work, but of course helped by the private sector, which has created 1.3 million new jobs since May 2010.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

A key step for jobcentres will be the introduction of universal credit. A press release from the Secretary of State in May last year claimed that

“all new applications for existing benefits and credits will be entirely phased out by April 2014.”

Will the Minister acknowledge that jobcentres will still be handling new applications for existing benefits long after next April?

[Mr Hoban]

The right hon. Gentleman never ceases to amaze me with the number of questions he asks about universal credit. He knows exactly what the time scale is. We have said when the national roll-out will be completed and I thought he would have been delighted today that we have extended the roll-out to Wigan.

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[Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)]

16. What assessment he has made of the performance of the Work programme in helping young people into work.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

In my hon. Friend’s area, 1,700 young people have had more than six months’ work as a consequence of the Work programme, and two of the three Work programme providers in her area have significantly exceeded their targets.

[Mary Macleod]

One of the best ways to create and nurture aspiration in our young people is to have better careers advice and guidance in schools and further education colleges. What discussions is my hon. Friend having with other Ministers on this, and is there more that we can do to encourage young people to set up their own businesses?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues, particularly the Under-Secretary of State for Skills, on careers guidance and advice. A further education college in my constituency is setting a good example by having an employment adviser in the college who talks to young people about the opportunities that can flow from the courses they are taking. That kind of innovation is really important if we are to ensure that young people make the best of their qualifications.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I hope that Ministers will be aware of the excellent research being carried out by the Single Parent Action Network, which supports young single parents as well as older parents who are trying to get into work. Its recent report on the Work programme found that many barriers still exist to prevent them from getting work, including the lack of affordable child care. May I urge Ministers to look at that report and to acknowledge that getting into work is not so easy for people with child care responsibilities?

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. We need to work with those organisations that support lone parents to see what more the Work programme can do to help them into employment. The Chancellor announced last week that we will be providing more support to lone parents in the two or three years before their child goes to primary school.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that what we really need for young people is jobs in the economy? Will he welcome what is happening at Rushden Lakes, a major new retail and leisure park that is currently going through its planning process? It will create thousands of jobs, many of them for young people, thanks to the leadership of the Conservative-dominated Government.

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Labour did not believe that the private sector would create the necessary jobs to offset public sector job losses, but over the past three years, for every job lost in the public sector, three were created in the private sector. Labour criticises that, but we should congratulate the sector.

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

T2. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Mr McCann]

Judging by the evidence of my constituency surgeries, the testimony of other Members and the number of successful appeals, it appears that Atos cannot tell the difference between someone who is sick and someone who is not. Given that that is the company’s job, when is the Secretary of State going to sack Atos?

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

As I have said in earlier responses, we are continuing to build on the system that we inherited from the previous Government. We have also had the fourth independent review of the work capability assessment and our own independent review, and we are seeing that the proportion of people going into the support group has increased in recent years.

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

T3. What assessment has my hon. Friend made of the number of people who have come off the main unemployment benefits since May 2010?

[Mr Hoban]

If my hon. Friend looks at the three main benefits—jobseeker’s allowance, employment and support allowance and lone parent income support—he will see that, since the general election, there has been a reduction of 300,000 in the number claiming those benefits. That is a consequence of the measures that we have taken to get people into work, and of welfare reform.

[Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell the House whether he thinks the bedroom tax is proving a runaway success?

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[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

T6. A high percentage of employment and support allowance claims have been won on appeal because the claimant produced evidence that had not previously been made available. What can the Department do to encourage all relevant documents to be provided from the outset to save unnecessary costs and emotional stress?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We ask claimants when we send out ESA50 forms to contact GPs and consultants so that we get the right medical information to help our decision makers reach the right outcome. I encourage GPs and others to take more time to send in the returns quickly so that we have the best information possible to make those decisions.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

T7. The pensions Minister knows that I have been in regular contact with the Pensions Regulator regarding the Carrington Wire pension fund. He also knows that I am grateful for his support in addressing concerns about the ability of some foreign-based multinational companies to renege on their pensions responsibilities to UK pension holders. What progress are the Government making on addressing that important issue?

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[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

A constituent of mine on jobseeker’s allowance who is actively seeking work was recently made to give up some of the volunteering he was doing. What good is an arbitrary 16-hour-a-week limit on volunteering by JSA recipients when what really matters is that they do whatever is best to increase their chances of getting a job?

[Mr Hoban]

There is no 16-hour-a-week limit on voluntary work, so let me slay that myth first. The important thing is that the jobseeker is actively seeking work, and advisers have some flexibility on that, but volunteering should not get in the way of trying to find a job.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

The bedroom tax is causing councils enormous financial strain, as it is for hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people across the country. On 11 June the pensions Minister told me that the Government are not making monthly checks on how much discretionary housing payment money councils are spending. What will happen to hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people when the money runs out?

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[Mr Speaker]

Order. We have got it.

[Mr Hoban]

There was a nugget buried in that question: the hon. Gentleman accepts, unlike those on his party’s Front Bench, that the Work programme is improving and getting more people into work. I am delighted by his support for it.

[Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

What assistance can my right hon. Friend offer my constituent who, anxious not to be a burden on anyone, took a zero-hours contract? Although he generally works for significantly fewer than 16 hours, on the odd occasion that he does work for more than 16 hours his department suggests that he makes a new claim when cancelling the old one. How can that be right?