Protecting Children Online

Lord Vaizey of Didcot Excerpts

Wednesday 12th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

The House finds itself today debating an incredibly important issue, and one that has risen in prominence because of the worst of circumstances. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) referred at the beginning of her speech to the dreadful murders of Tia Sharp and April Jones, which shocked the nation and saddened all who read about them. They reinforce the need to take action and maintain vigilance.

This Government, and indeed the previous Government, take the continued availability of child sexual abuse images online extremely seriously. If I heard the hon. Lady correctly, she said that we should not refer to this as child pornography. She is quite right: it is child abuse, child torture and child rape. The creation of these images is abuse against a child, and that child is further violated every time the image is circulated and viewed by others. That is why the creation, distribution and viewing of child sexual abuse images is strictly prohibited in this country, and why we take action to stop it. We must take every possible step to prevent their production and distribution over the internet.

We must work together on that. We must recognise that that means using industry, law enforcement and the charitable sector. I think that we have made considerable progress. Let me start by talking about the Internet Watch Foundation. Before the IWF was established in 1996, this country hosted around 18% of the known child sexual abuse content on the internet, which is absolutely shocking. Since 2003, the IWF, working with industry, has reduced that figure to less than 1%. We fully support and welcome the work done by the internet industry in the UK, which uses a list provided by the IWF to block images of child sexual abuse. Blocking has a real and tangible benefit, as it stops people inadvertently viewing the images and stops paedophiles arguing that they found the images accidentally.

The IWF has a crucial role to play in the removal of these images from the internet. At the summit that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has called for next week, we will discuss what further measures we can take. It is right and proper that we look at the role and funding levels of the IWF, and at what more the industry can do in terms of its role and scope.

[Mrs Moon]

The IWF does a fantastic job, but it can only do as good a job as the referrals it receives. When I speak to parents and children in my constituency, they do not know what to do. Often, the advice given to children is “Turn the computer off.” That will not help us to track down images and stop them coming in in the first place.

[Mr Vaizey]

I thank the hon. Lady for that contribution and pay tribute to her for the work that she does on these issues in this House and throughout the country. She is absolutely right. There is more we can do, and we need to look at a number of issues that will be raised at the summit next week.

First, we need to discuss the funding of the IWF. I note the £1 million contribution that Google has made this afternoon. We will discuss with the IWF what kind of funding it needs and what funding needs to come from the industry to help it to do the work that it needs to do. Secondly, we need to discuss the IWF’s role in peer-to-peer file-sharing. It is all very well, and absolutely right, to clamp down on and block the sites that host these vile and disgusting images, but we need to do more work on the activities of peer-to-peer networks where people are sharing them.

This involves the complex issue of how the IWF works with the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre. We have to clear the lines on that. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland referred to international work. We, as a Government, support the Global Alliance against Child Sexual Abuse Online, which covers more than 40 countries. Both CEOP and the IWF work internationally, and it is extremely important to focus on that work. We can be proud of our success in this regard, but, as she rightly points out, the problem remains one of images posted abroad.

[Geraint Davies]

Does the Minister agree that images of women being raped in pornography should also be illegal and banned from the internet?

[Mr Vaizey]

The Ministry of Justice and the Home Office are looking very closely at that issue, which has been debated recently. It is right that my colleagues in the relevant Departments look to see what action it is appropriate to take.

CEOP works with UK police forces, which carry out excellent work in tracking down and arresting the owners of sites within the UK and rescuing and safeguarding the children who are subject to abuse. We will continue to support and promote the work of CEOP. It is important to note that the number of people working there has increased from 85 in 2010 to 130 now. CEOP is now a command within the National Crime Agency, and this will build on its success and allow it to work closely with other commands to ensure that children continue to be safeguarded. CEOP receives important support, in the form of a skills resource, from the business sector, including Microsoft, BAE Systems Detica and Visa, as well as children’s charities such as the NSPCC. At next week’s summit we will discuss what further resources we can bring to bear for CEOP, especially in terms of support from businesses that can bring particular skill sets to help it to carry out its work. As I said, we will also discuss with CEOP its close co-operation and work with the IWF.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister being positive about the proposal by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies). I hope that the summit will be a very productive discussion. End Violence Against Women has come up with a specific proposal on how to tackle the production of so-called rape porn, both online and offline. Can the Minister confirm that that will also be on next week’s agenda so that it can be talked through with businesses and then inform the discussions between the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice?

[Mr Vaizey]

We will certainly look at what we need to include on the agenda. The summit has to focus on what internet companies can do to help us to tackle not only child abuse images but the exposure of children to online pornographic content. If there are comments to be made that would inform the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office, we will make sure that that happens.

We need to focus on closer co-operation between the IWF and CEOP and on resource from industry to help the IWF to do its work. There should be greater focus on peer-to-peer networks, and a clear strategy to increase our international work, which is already taking place.

As the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland said, there is a clear distinction between illegal child abuse images and age-inappropriate content.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I must apologise because I am speaking in a Welsh Grand Committee later and will miss part of this debate, which is particularly important to my constituency and has become hugely important to me owing to the impact in Montgomeryshire of what has happened. I hope that my hon. Friend agrees that Coral and Paul Jones, the parents of April Jones, should have an opportunity to express their views to Government at one level; we need to discuss exactly where it should be.

[Mr Vaizey]

I absolutely hear what my hon. Friend says and will happily discuss with him what he thinks should be the appropriate way of ensuring that that takes place.

In protecting our children from online pornography, the Government are making a huge effort to minimise the harm that is caused by being exposed to age-inappropriate content. As the Minister with responsibility for the communications sector, I see the headlines that call for greater action from our biggest internet companies. I support those calls. We want more action because there are few more important issues than protecting children as they interact online. Let us be clear: the internet can be an amazing force for good. However, information available on the internet can also drive harm. Mobile phone operators, internet service providers, search engines and social media companies do act to protect children online, and I will come to some of the measures that have been developed through Government and industry co-operation.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

The Minister refers to age-inappropriate online pornography. Does he really understand what children as young as eight are viewing, does he know that the average age of a young man viewing hard-core porn online has dropped to eight, and is he aware of the social and psychological harm that stems from viewing those types of images?

[Mr Vaizey]

It is really important during this debate to make the point that everyone wants to see what we can do to minimise this harm. It is not appropriate to suggest that Ministers are not aware of the issues and do not want to act. [Interruption.] Nor is it appropriate to heckle me as I come on to setting out the points that I am here to set out. We need to work across Parliament. Members of the public will want to see cross-party action to tackle these issues.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

What are you going to do, then?

[Mr Vaizey]

I will tell the hon. Lady what I am going to do if she stops heckling me from the Front Bench. This is the kind of conduct that the Opposition seek to bring to the debate.

Since 2008, the UK Council for Child Internet Safety, set up by the previous Government, has brought together industry, charities, law enforcement and academia to focus on developing measures to keep children safe online. In October 2011, under the auspices of UKCCIS, and under this Government, the internet service providers developed a voluntary code of practice on the implementation of internet parental controls. A year on, the biggest four internet providers met their commitment to offer parental internet controls to new customers. Now, in a further step, the biggest five have committed to delivering whole home, network-level parental control tools by the end of this year. That will allow parents to set, with one click, parental controls on all devices in the home.

When we began these discussions with ISPs, they told us that that was not technically possible, so we have moved a huge way forward. Making it easier for parents to block adult and age-restricted material was a Bailey recommendation and that has been achieved. Network-level filters for domestic broadband was also a recommendation of the independent parliamentary inquiry into online child protection.

[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

The Minister has highlighted the success with the five ISPs. How does that compare with agreements reached in other countries in Europe and the United States?

[Mr Vaizey]

We can hold our heads high as being far more advanced than many other countries around the world. I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman with details of what other countries are doing and where we rank compared with them. It is also important to point out that those five ISPs cover the vast majority of customers using the internet at home.

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland said that we have not implemented the recommendations of the Bailey review, but I remind her that this Government set up that review because of this Prime Minister’s passion to protect children from the sexualisation of society. As Reg Bailey himself said in his recently published review of progress:

“I have been pleased to see that many parts of industry have risen to the challenge”

and that good progress has been made against his recommendations.

Bailey called for greater transparency in the regulatory framework through the creation of a single website for regulators. ParentPort, launched in 2011, is a single website, created by media regulators, through which parents can complain about inappropriate material. Bailey also called for a reduction in on-street advertising containing sexualised imagery that is likely to be seen by children, and the Advertising Standards Authority has issued guidelines on the use of such images in outdoor advertising. He also recommended restricting the employment of children as brand ambassadors and ensuring that magazines and newspapers with sexualised images on the cover are not sold in easy sight of children and that the content of pre-watershed TV programming better meets parents’ expectations.

Those recommendations and others have been met. Of course, that is not to say that every recommendation has been met in full. There is still work to do on, for example, online music videos.

[Stella Creasy]

The Bailey review also pointed out that, as much as we must try to adapt to many of the ways in which technology is changing, no filter or technology can compensate for parents and teachers giving positive examples. Yesterday the House had an opportunity to make sure that sensitive discussion of issues such as sexual consent, equality and respect in relationships was on the agenda, so is the Minister disappointed that his Government voted against putting sexual consent in the curriculum in a way that would allow young people to get training and advice on how to tackle these issues and let us build a filter in their heads about them, too?

[Mr Vaizey]

This issue was debated fully in the House yesterday and there are two Education Ministers present—the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) and my right hon. Friend the Education Secretary. As the hon. Lady knows, sex and relationships education is compulsory in secondary schools. We trust teachers, who are best placed to provide the appropriate advice, guidance and support to children in their schools. Teachers who teach sex education follow the statutory guidance laid out by the Education Secretary, but we do not believe it is right to remove the ability of parents to withdraw their children from sex education at any key stage, as the Opposition advocate.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that in sex and relationships education, particularly in primary schools, more guidance needs to be given on the age-appropriateness of the material? I know that he has already taken some steps to improve that, but what more can he do to make sure that children receive age-appropriate information?

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend is right to raise this issue, which she has campaigned on in this House. I pay tribute to her for the work she has done. We are introducing classification not just for music videos, but for DVDs used in schools for sex education. I will continue to have a dialogue with my hon. Friend on other appropriate measures. [Interruption.] The sneezing of the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) is appropriate, because she was a member of the panel for the independent parliamentary inquiry into online child protection—as was the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland—to which I now turn.

I praise my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry). My involvement in these important issues started with an Adjournment debate that she had secured, during which I said that I wanted to hold discussions and work with her to make progress. She decided that it was appropriate to set up an inquiry, which had my full support and which, I am pleased to say, was a cross-party inquiry, with Members from all the main parties on its panel. Since my hon. Friend set up that parliamentary inquiry, not only has it come up with some sensible recommendations, which I will turn to in a moment, but I am also delighted that she has been appointed as the Prime Minister’s adviser. Although I pay tribute to many hon. Members, I am sure that most would agree that my hon. Friend has taken a fantastically prominent role in this debate, that she has moved it forward in leaps and bounds and that she is a fantastic advocate for more action in this area.

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is making some interesting points, but will he clarify whether the Government intend to support the Opposition motion?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vaizey]

The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), who is not in his place, pointed out how late this motion came to the House. As I have said, it is hard to support a motion that claims that the police lack resources when I have already pointed out that CEOP has significantly increased its manpower; that claims that the Government have failed to implement the Bailey review when I have already pointed out how many of the recommendations we have introduced; and that claims that we have not supported the independent parliamentary inquiry when we supported it from the start and have followed a lot of its recommendations.

The Opposition can decide whether they want to play politics with this issue or whether they want to have a serious debate about how to make progress. They cannot table a tendentious motion such as this and expect us to support it. What I am doing in this speech—and what other Government Members will do in theirs—is raising and addressing important issues, as some Opposition Members have done, and saying what the Government are doing.

[Claire Perry]

Does my hon. Friend share my almost despair that, while some Members present, such as the hon. Members for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) and for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman), have been intimately involved in this agenda for two and a half years, others who are heckling and shouting from a sedentary position have, to be frank, shown no interest whatsoever in this topic until it became a front-page issue? Working together will solve the problem. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a terrible and dangerous example of bandwagonism?

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend is an authority on this issue and she has shown, throughout her engagement with it, her willingness to work across party lines and to look for practical solutions that will help keep our children safe. I hope that Opposition Members will listen to what she has just said and take it on board.

[Geraint Davies]

Does the Minister agree—I know that the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) supports me in this—that credit card companies should be made accountable and perhaps face penalties if they are complicit in the downloading of child abuse images through online transactions, particularly those under £50 that can be facilitated by anonymous credit cards that can be accessed by children as well? Does he agree that the Government need to bring credit card companies to account and stop this abuse?

[Mr Vaizey]

That is very important. As I have mentioned, Visa plays a role with CEOP. No credit card company would say that it was actively encouraging or supporting people to download images of child abuse. If the hon. Gentleman has specific examples, he should bring them to my attention. The credit card companies have an important and helpful role to play on this issue and many others, including piracy, and we must continue to work with them.

[Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

The Minister will know that many Members from all parts of the House have been interested in online safety for young people for a long time. Does he agree that it is slightly perverse that this country has legislation that gives courts the power to order ISPs or websites to remove material that is defamatory or that contravenes copyright, but no powers for the courts to deal with serious issues such as online child pornography or incitement to violence, which have a devastating impact on people’s lives?

[Mr Vaizey]

Companies that use the law to block sites that support pirated material seek an injunction through pre-internet copyright law. As has always been the case, what is illegal offline is also illegal online. People can therefore use existing law to attack sites. As I have said, the Internet Watch Foundation does block access to sites that host child abuse images.

[Dr Huppert]

The Minister is making a powerful case. Does he agree that it is somewhat misleading to imply that we have no powers to deal with such sites? In 2012, every one of the 73 UK webpages that hosted child pornography was removed within four days, and the vast majority within 60 minutes, of the IWF being notified.

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, but I must make progress because a lot of people want to speak on this issue.

We have responded to many of the recommendations of the independent parliamentary inquiry. For example, the report called for filtered public wi-fi. Through the UK Council for Child Internet Safety, the Government have secured a commitment from the main public wi-fi providers that they will offer family-friendly wi-fi in public places where children are likely to use it.

I am conscious of the time, so I will wrap up with a number of key points. On child abuse images, we will work with the industry to secure appropriate funding for the IWF. We will work with the IWF on its peer-to-peer and international work. We will also work with CEOP and the IWF to ensure that their work is co-ordinated effectively. We have made huge progress on protecting children from inappropriate content online. New customers are now provided with filters that are in place when they first access the internet. ISPs regularly contact existing customers through e-mails and on their bills to tell them about internet filters. On age verification, ISPs are bringing in closed-loop e-mails so that when the filters are changed in a home, an e-mail is sent to the account holder and, therefore, to the adult. I hear the point about splash pages and it is worth debating. It is important to analyse whether that would be an effective change.

I will make one wider point in conclusion. When I held a meeting with my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes and other hon. Members some years ago, about 80 Members turned up from across the political divide. All of them, from the über-libertarians to the ultra-authoritarians, wanted action. We have made progress. The ISPs and others should be in no doubt about the mood of this House. If not enough is done, legislation will be required. We must get the message across to them that this is not something on which they should consider the competitive advantage, but something on which they have to work together and co-operate. They must work together on issues such as publicity and education for parents.

The summit that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has called next week is an important staging post. I pay tribute to everyone in the House who has campaigned on this issue, because they have pushed it up the agenda. The people who can make a difference have been left in no doubt that no amount of weasel words or hiding behind technical obfuscation will stop this House taking the action that is needed to protect our children and clamp down on child abuse images.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—