Lord Barker of Battle
Main Page: Lord Barker of Battle (Conservative - Life peer)(13 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
1. What assessment he has made of the likely level of take-up of domestic solar power by 2020.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Analysis undertaken by the Department for Energy and Climate Change in February 2010 estimated that the feed-in tariff scheme would lead to the deployment of about 700,000 domestic solar photovoltaic installations by 2020. In the light of the reforms to the schemes and the falling costs, I believe that we can do significantly better than that.
Neil Carmichael
In view of the need for certainty in Government policy, what representations has the Minister received from the investment community since the announcement of the review of the fast-track tariff in relation to solar power?
Gregory Barker
The investors who were looking to invest in larger schemes are disappointed; that is coming through as part of the consultation. This was a difficult decision, and I can assure my hon. Friend that it was not taken lightly. We are, however, absolutely convinced that it was the right thing to do. We inherited from the previous Government a complete mess of a scheme with no proper financial controls or economic modelling, but we have now taken measures that mean we will avoid the boom and bust that we have seen in other countries across Europe. We are providing a platform for long-term growth.
Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
The decision on the feed-in tariff regime has caused great consternation in north Wales—so much so that the managing director of Kingspan, a company in my constituency, has written to me to say:
“DECC has potentially destroyed a renewables sector that is only some 11 months old and taken with it the jobs and growth opportunity that it would have provided for the UK economy in general and North Wales in particular.”
In the light of that comment from the managing director of a manufacturing company, will the Minister meet me, my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) and others to discuss this bad decision?
Gregory Barker
I profoundly disagree with the right hon. Gentleman. We have not cut the budget for the feed-in tariff scheme. We have put in place proper financial controls to ensure that there is money in the system through to 2014. I would be happy to meet him to discuss this matter further, but he must remember that the tariff changes apply only to systems larger than 50 kW, which is equivalent to the size of two tennis courts, and not to domestic housing.
Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)
Will my hon. Friend consider the letter has been sent to the Secretary of State from the Wadebridge Renewable Energy Network—the WREN group—in my constituency about community-based projects that might be bigger than the new threshold?
Gregory Barker
Community-based projects that are larger than 50 kW—about the size of two tennis courts—and up to 150 kW, which is significantly larger, will still get a tariff comparable to that paid in Germany. We should be competitive with Europe, and the pressure should be on manufacturers to reduce the cost of their products rather than to provide bonuses. We hope that many community projects, particularly those around the 100 kW size, will still be able to go ahead, but the pressure must be on manufacturers to bring down their prices.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
The Minister has single-handedly destroyed the confidence of the solar sector and the wider renewables sector at a stroke, and personally shredded the Government’s green credentials. The Renewable Energy Association says that the industry has been “strangled at birth”. Sharp’s in Wrexham states that this was
“terrible news—effectively destroying the solar sector”.
The Solar Trade Association calls the decision “a total disaster”, and the Micro-Power Council says:
“The 50 kW plus sector may well wither on the vine: many jobs will go and businesses will see demand dry up.”
Is it not just sheer blind arrogance for the Minister to suggest that all those bodies are wrong and that only he is right?
Gregory Barker
The fact is that we inherited a complete pig’s ear of a scheme from the previous Government. The hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) voted against the scheme in 2008, yet they are now the heroes of the feed-in tariff. We have put in proper financial controls and the investment that will guarantee the system for the long term. I would have thought that, having driven the country into the ground, Opposition Members would be more financially prudent, but behold, on the Opposition Front Bench—
Mr Speaker
Order. Order. Let me just make it clear that when I say “Order”, the hon. Gentleman resumes his seat. It is as simple and unmistakable as that.
Huw Irranca-Davies
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can understand why the Minister is getting so agitated. I have only one more thing to add. Does he at least agree with this eminent expert on the importance of projects of up to 5 GW, who says:
“The idea behind it is to allow the inclusion of non-commercial scale projects, such as those that will be installed by homeowners, small businesses, local authorities, community groups, farmers and others. That would help out hospitals and schools that want to facilitate greater use of renewables and ensure low emissions as part of our 2020 targets.”—[Official Report, 18 November 2008; Vol. 483, c. 144.]
Those are the words of the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), then the shadow Minister. Why is he wrong on this as well, and why is the Minister of State the fount of all knowledge?
Gregory Barker
Not for the first time, the hon. Gentleman has his numbers wrong: it is not 5 GW, but 5 MW—and 5 MW is still the equivalent of heating 1,500 homes. The fact of the matter is that the scheme we inherited from the previous Government—[Interruption] If the hon. Gentleman calms down, he will have the answer. Given the scheme we inherited, we had some choices to make: we supported either people in their homes, small businesses and communities or very large-scale schemes. We decided to support home owners and consumers; the hon. Gentleman can support big single investors. As I say, it is a clear choice.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
2. What steps he is taking to provide funding for further carbon capture and storage demonstration projects.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
7. Whether he plans to bring forward proposals to encourage households to take up the green deal.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The green deal will be a real game changer, but the Government fully recognise that the deal might need to provide additional drivers if we are to achieve the full scale of our ambitions to retrofit more than 14 million homes by 2020. We are working closely with a range of stakeholders to identify additional triggers that will steer customers towards the green deal and in the Energy Bill we are seeking powers to require changes to poorly insulated private rented accommodation.
Gregory Barker
The green deal is one of a number of tools, but clearly its effectiveness will be tested by the number of homes we manage to insulate and bring up to a decent standard. We have said that our ambition is 14 million homes by 2020. Clearly, that is the huge target that we must meet if we are to meet our carbon budgets.
Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)
Many of the materials that will feature in the green deal to improve the heat efficiency of homes attract VAT at a rate of 5% but some, such as double glazing, still attract it at a rate of 20%. Does the Minister agree that it would encourage people into the green deal if all the materials were taxed at 5%? Will the Minister investigate to find out whether that can be achieved?
Gregory Barker
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Obviously, this policy is primarily led by the Treasury, but I did have a good discussion with Pilkington on exactly this matter only last week. We will continue to look at it.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
I was very interested to hear the Minister’s response on the green deal. As yet, we have seen no targets in the Energy Bill and nothing to link it to the Climate Change Act 2008 so that it can create a tangible emission reduction. Yesterday, we heard the Chancellor talk up the green deal in the Budget, but not so loud was his announcement on page 117 of the plan for growth that the Government have scrapped the requirement for new homes to be truly zero carbon. Does the Minister agree with WWF, which said that this announcement of the destruction of the policy sweeps away
“years of work and ambition”?
What representations did he make to his colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Treasury before the decision was made?
Gregory Barker
This is a DCLG lead, but there should be no doubt about our commitment to the transformation of the housing stock. We know that the Opposition are still addicted to targets, but the difference is that the Government are addicted to real progress and to transformational change. They can carry on creating new targets and we will get on with making real changes in real life.
Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)
9. What recent discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues on the construction of new nuclear power stations.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
10. What steps he is taking to ensure that consumers receive advice on energy-saving measures.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Reliable advice will form an important part of the new green deal framework to be introduced in 2012. Having a comprehensive assessment setting out energy efficiency measures that are likely to be suitable for each individual property along with the potential opportunities for microgeneration and renewable heat will be a crucial step in every green deal journey.
Julie Hilling
I have been doing energy surgeries with E.ON in Bolton West, where it has a large base, to advise constituents on ways in which they can cut energy, reduce bills and stay warm. Considerable concern has been raised about the complexity of tariffs and the difficulty, especially for the elderly, of finding the cheapest supply. What can the Government do to help?
Gregory Barker
This is something we are looking at. We have engaged with all the major energy suppliers to create far simpler tariffs. The hon. Lady is absolutely right and if she has something to add—it sounds as though she has—I would be very happy to meet her to harvest her ideas and make sure they are included in the new, improved tariff arrangements that we are bringing forward later this year.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
One of the easiest ways of introducing immediate energy reduction is educating people to heat hot water only when they need it. What plans do the Government have to bring forward the Walker proposals in this regard?
Gregory Barker
There are no such current plans that I am aware of, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right. We would certainly be happy to consider whether there is a way of incorporating those proposals into our existing plans, because we need to do a great deal more.
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)
12. Whether he has made an assessment of the potential effects of the outcome of the 2011 Budget on the development of low-carbon technologies.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The Budget announced several new policies which will support the development of low-carbon technologies including £2 billion of additional capital for the green investment bank, a carbon floor price to provide a stronger, more stable signal to investment in low-carbon generation, and preferential company car tax treatment for low-carbon vehicles. All that is in addition to the creation of 21 enterprise zones and a £100-million boost for science that will further drive green growth.
Bridget Phillipson
The north-east has led the way with the development of low-carbon electric vehicles, as the Minister will know, and with the network of charging points. He will be aware that if those vehicles are to have mass-market appeal there needs to be a comprehensive network of charging points. What further action will the Government take to support a nationwide roll-out of such charging points?
Gregory Barker
We are working closely with our colleagues in the Department for Transport because—the hon. Lady is absolutely right—there needs to be a concerted, joined-up strategy if we are to realise the potential of electric vehicles. There will be more details on that, but I assure her that a lot of work is going on in Government and that the Departments are working effectively together.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
The Treasury has resisted the establishment of a public investment bank since the 1930s, so I congratulate my hon. Friends on having achieved that, but it will not be effective until 2015. What can be done to speed up the implementation of the green investment bank?
Gregory Barker
The Chancellor announced yesterday that the green investment bank will be up and ready for business in 2012 and will have £2 billion of additional capital. The key is that it will be able to raise funds from 2015 at scale, in the bond market for example, that will allow it to make a meaningful contribution to the billions of pounds that we will need to raise in the second half of the decade to finance the vital renewable energy infrastructure projects.
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
Is the Minister really happy that the green investment bank will deliver the necessary investment in green industries as quickly as possible?
Gregory Barker
Yes, I am. I would point out to the hon. Lady that Bob Wigley, who chaired the green investment bank commission, said yesterday:
“The Chancellor has found a pragmatic way of getting the bank up and running with a significant level of seed equity, allowing it to develop its activities without risk to fiscal prudence.”
That is absolutely spot on. We think that it will make a substantial difference not only in the next few years, but in the next couple of decades and beyond. This is a key time in the development of financial services.
Meg Hillier
The Opposition welcome the green investment bank, which is something we supported, but we have concerns. The other week we had Government green growth week—I forgive you, Mr Speaker, if you missed it—with a series of rehashed announcements. Yesterday’s announcement about the green investment bank worried me because there will be no real investment opportunity for four years. The Minister might be insulated from business, but I meet businesses all the time that need that investment now, so can he tell them when they can approach the bank to borrow money?
Gregory Barker
From 2012, when it opens for business. It is pretty clear. That is why the chairman of the green investment bank, who knows a lot more about business than Members on the Labour Front Bench, was very pleased with the announcement. The £3 billion is an awful lot more than Labour pledged in its manifesto.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
13. When he plans to respond to the Committee on Climate Change’s fourth carbon budget report.
Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD)
15. When he plans to respond to the Committee on Climate Change’s fourth carbon budget report.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The Climate Change Act 2008 requires the Government to set the fourth carbon budget level in law no later than 30 June 2011. I anticipate that a statutory instrument will be laid before the House after the Easer recess.
Damian Hinds
The carbon budget plan is still back-ended, calling for reductions of 4.7% compound after 2030 but only 3.2% before. That is credible so long as investment in research and development is strong at the front end. What more can the Minister do, working with colleagues in Government, to stimulate the development of low-carbon vans and heavy goods vehicles as well as power?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is right: there is a whole range of measures, but transport is also key. The recent spending review announced that the Government have provided up to £400 million for measures to promote the uptake of ultra-low carbon vehicle technologies, including support for consumer incentives, the development of recharging infrastructure and a programme of research and development work, which we continue to add to.
Simon Wright
The Committee on Climate Change recommended a tightening of the second and third carbon budgets in the light of the impact of the recession. Does the Minister agree that we must deliver on that recommendation and use the Committee’s report as a means of strengthening the UK’s global leadership in encouraging our international partners to tighten their emissions targets?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We must maintain our global leadership position, not only because it is important for tackling dangerous climate change, but because we want to grab market share in the new clean technology markets around the world, which are growing fast. We need to assert our leadership in the low-carbon markets, and to do so we need an ambitious policy to drive it at home.
Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)
When my hon. Friend heard Lord Adair Turner spell out his fourth five-year plan, was he, like me, reminded of the old Soviet planning system? I am sure that if anyone could have made the Soviet Gosplan system work it would have been him. Will my hon. Friend treat with great caution forecasts 15 years ahead for the costs to which we are committed, given that the Barclays and Accenture plan reckons that meeting current targets for 2020 will cost €3 trillion?
Gregory Barker
Clearly there is a huge investment agenda, and my right hon. Friend is right, but we see that as an opportunity as well as a cost. He will also know that the cost of doing nothing and standing by while climate change hits the world progressively through this century will be considerably greater than prudent early action.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
14. What recent discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues on attracting private sector investment into low-carbon technologies.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
The Secretary of State regularly meets ministerial colleagues, and attracting private sector investment is one of many topics considered in their discussions on promoting a low-carbon economy and long-term green growth.
Chi Onwurah
As the Secretary of State knows, many innovative clean-tech start-ups throughout the north-east are crying out for funding. Given that the green investment bank cannot borrow and £3 billion is not going to build us our green future, what will he do to ensure that more funding is available?
Gregory Barker
I think the hon. Lady misunderstands the role of the green investment bank. It is there to spur private sector growth and investment, which is ultimately going to deliver the green investment and green growth that we need. The bank, with £3 billion, which is considerably more than the Labour party proposed, is going to be a real engine for growth, but it is not the only show in town; there is a whole range of other policies that we need to promote a green enterprise recovery.
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)
Following the Chancellor’s commitment to rebalance our economy, does my hon. Friend agree that Plymouth, with a very fine reputation for marine science and research, has a significant part to play in developing a green and low-carbon economy? Is he willing to come to Plymouth to see the very real work that the university and other authorities are doing within the city?
Gregory Barker
I gladly accept the invitation from my hon. Friend, who is a great champion of Plymouth. With its long maritime history, port facilities and engineering expertise, it is extremely well placed to benefit from that type of green growth, particularly in the marine area, and I look forward to seeing it at first hand.
Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)
16. What recent discussions he has had with representatives of energy-intensive industries on electricity market reform.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)
Yes, it certainly does. I can confirm to my hon. Friend that in relation to funding energy efficiency improvements, the green deal should apply to park homes if they have an appropriate energy meter and qualify under the normal rules. Later this year, we will consult on the size and scope of the energy obligation, including the types of property and householders qualifying for support, and that will include park homes.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
T8. With around 30,000 people dying of cold each winter, the introduction of smart meters and ever-increasing fuel bills, will the Minister meet me to discuss the promotion of cold meters, which sound the alarm when the temperature dips below safe levels? That is particularly important for elderly people.
Gregory Barker
Yes, I will certainly meet the hon. Lady to discuss that. It is not an idea that I have heard a lot about, but it sounds very sensible. The great thing about the green deal is that we want to encourage the introduction of new technologies that will help the consumer.
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)
T4. Enfield has a welcome commitment to increase the supply of decentralised renewable and low-carbon energy. May I invite the Minister to come to Enfield to see for himself these innovative plans, particularly on capturing energy from waste, and to see that when it comes to supporting renewables, instead of chasing mega-business deals, small and local is often beautiful?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is absolutely right; small and beautiful is our vision for a much more decentralised energy economy. I would be delighted to come to Enfield to see the real strides that people are making to achieve that.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
Earlier we heard the Secretary of State boasting about his experience of financial markets. The rules of the Office for National Statistics about how to classify things are absolutely clear. It is more than 20 years since private finance initiatives were set up, so why has he been so incompetent in the way that he has structured the green investment bank, which has been classified in the public sector, giving the Treasury the excuse to delay its borrowing powers for four years?
Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)
My question relates to the renewable heat initiative. I am sure that the Minister remembers the productive meeting that we had with Geothermal International, a small company in Coventry. Although the outcome on the commercial applications side has been very good, the continuing delays on the domestic side are holding back the industry. It is a very important industry in the small and medium-sized enterprises sector, which is being targeted by the Government. If he could hurry up with that, we would be able to make more progress.
Gregory Barker
I assure the hon. Gentleman that the domestic launch is not being delayed at all. The only difference is that at the same time as we launch the industrial scheme this year, we will launch the renewable heat premium. The premium will reach more consumers in the first year than the ordinary tariff under the original model was anticipated to reach. I assure him that the premium will add to the scheme, not detract from it.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
T6. Recent announcements, including that on the premium, have been welcomed warmly by Worcester, Bosch Group, which employs more than 1,000 people in Worcester. It wants the domestic roll-out of the scheme to succeed, and feels that the key to that is winning over installers. Will the Minister update the House on his plans to engage with installers, and will he visit the training centre with me, where more than 10,000 installers are trained each year?
Gregory Barker
My hon. Friend is absolutely right that installation is key, particularly for such new, innovative technologies, which are not all as tried and tested as we would like. We are working closely with installers. My officials meet regularly with firms and liaise closely with the industry. I would be delighted to accept my hon. Friend’s invitation and see it for myself.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
The vital ring-fenced support for the marine renewables deployment fund ends next week. With the green investment bank some way off, no news on the low-carbon innovation fund until the summer and nothing in the Budget, will the Minister clarify what backing the industry can expect, or does he prefer the jobs to go abroad?
Gregory Barker
Absolutely not. We have gripped this agenda, as the enthusiasm of the new marine programme energy board made clear when we met in Exeter. I can tell the hon. Lady that we will announce the allocation from the Department of Energy and Climate Change’s budget for supporting low-carbon technologies very shortly, and the results of the review of the renewables obligation that the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), brought forward will also be announced in due course.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
On the idea that there is no public subsidy for new nuclear, the Government will of course effectively have to underwrite new nuclear in respect of events that we all hope will never happen. How is the carbon floor price not effectively a back-door subsidy for new nuclear?