Speaker’s Statement

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I will come to other colleagues, particularly the illustrious Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee, the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash).

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As you will recall, on Saturday afternoon, I was the Member who made the point that the Leader of the House should have been making an emergency business statement at that time, rather than relying on the device of a point of order to try to change the business today. I described it at the time as “low-rent jiggery-pokery”. Is it not time that the Government, instead of playing games with the business of the House, actually subscribed to the usual practices, informed the Opposition of their intentions and, indeed, informed the Speaker of the House of their intensions in advance, so that we can all get on with the important business we have to conduct?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Let us focus on the arguments and the issues. As a long-serving Member of this House who is sadly no longer with us once said, “It’s about policies; it’s not about personalities. It’s not about personalities; it’s about policies.” I do not want to get into the personalities of it. I know that the Leader of the House disapproves of jiggery-pokery, because I have heard him say so in the past—if memory serves me correctly, on 26 March 2015, in the Chamber, he made the very point that he deprecated the use of jiggery-pokery.

I do not want to get into that, but I suppose what I want to say is this: there are precedents for changes in business being announced on points of order—it is not the norm, but there are precedents—and I do not want to ascribe any improper motive to the Leader of the House, whose personal courtesy to me over the years has been and remains unfailing, and I hope that I have reciprocated it. He made the judgment that he made. There was very little notice that he was going to say what he said, but that was really perhaps a product of the circumstances.

The hon. Gentleman might think that the circumstance could have been anticipated and some advance notice would have been helpful, but we were where we were. I do not complain about having to respond to points of order. The Leader of the House did not stay for all the points of order—he stayed for some of them—but I feel certain that he will since have familiarised himself with all of them. We will hear from the Leader of the House later, and I am sure we look forward to that.

European Union (Withdrawal) Acts

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Saturday 19th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Should the Leader of the House not have sought to make an emergency business statement, if that was what his intention was, so that we could do what the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) have just done and asked questions of the right hon. Gentleman about his intentions regarding what happens to the rest of the important business that we have before us?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to that is yes. I intend no discourtesy to the Leader of the House, but it had been intimated to me—albeit not by him—that in the event of the Government being defeated on amendment (a), it would be the Executive’s intention to bring forward an emergency business statement. Although an emergency business statement is often narrow in its terms, because it flows from a particular event on a given subject, it is susceptible to questioning, whereas doing this on a point of order is most unusual and does not readily lend itself to questioning. It is, to be frank, unsatisfactory, but I do not intend any discourtesy to the Leader of the House and I am quite certain that he thought that he was doing the right thing. He would not knowingly do the wrong thing, but it is less than helpful to the exchanges. I will have to take advice and reflect on these matters further, because I did not receive advance notification, of any length, of the intention—still less of the intention to do it in this way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I certainly will reflect on Members’ concerns.

Colleagues will understand that the Speaker regularly meets the Leader of the House, the shadow Leader of the House, the Government Chief Whip, the Opposition Chief Whip and a number of others who occupy influential positions in the House, and that is absolutely right; it facilitates the efficient, orderly and fair conduct of business. It is also important that, of course, many of those discussions—not necessarily all of them, but many of them—are private in character, so I would not make a habit of divulging the detail of what has been discussed.

It is, however, fair to say that I did see the Leader of the House earlier this week, and we had a perfectly good and constructive meeting in which we discussed a number of matters, I hope in our usual fashion—that is to say, with great respect for and courtesy towards each other. It was perfectly possible to anticipate, as the right hon. Lady said, a number of scenarios that might flow later in the week, with the upcoming European Council and the deadline for the passage of a deal, but in that meeting earlier this week the Leader of the House gave me no indication of any, what might be called, reserve plans in the event that things did not proceed as he hoped. I just want the House to know that I have been blindsided on this matter, as others have been, and I would that it had not been so. I express myself, I hope, in quite an understated fashion: I would that it had not been so.

Rather than pronounce with sound and fury now, which I do not think would be the right thing to do, I will reflect on the matter, absorbing what colleagues say and consulting others for their advice, and I will report to the House on Monday. I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Lady, who is an immensely dedicated parliamentarian and who has served, if you will, on both sides of the fence—both as a senior Minister and as a Back-Bench Member.

[Kevin Brennan]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Further to the point I made in my earlier point of order, in respect of which you kindly ruled that this matter should have been dealt with through an emergency business statement, I think we all, if we have been in the House long enough, recognise low-rent jiggery-pokery from the Government, which is what this actually amounts to. I understand that that is not something you could say, Mr Speaker—I notice your head movements, but it is not my duty to comment on people’s head movements in the House.

If the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin) were seeking to table what we might call an insurance amendment ahead of Monday’s proceedings, just in case a ruling should occur that allowed the Government to proceed as they suggested through the rather irregular point of order from the Leader of the House earlier, and that insurance amendment was not tabled by the time we finished these points of order, would you be minded overall to accept such an amendment as a manuscript amendment, prior to our proceedings on Monday?

[Mr Speaker]

By noon on Monday, any manuscript amendments would be eligible for consideration. I would have to see the amendment before deciding whether to select it, but such an amendment—I hope this reassures the hon. Gentleman—would be in no different or lesser category to the other manuscript amendments to which one of his colleagues referred earlier. It would be perfectly possible for those to be decided on and therefore, if appropriate, selected by the Chair. I hope that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman.

Prorogation (Disclosure of Communications)

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The point of order trumps the attempted intervention even of an illustrious Law Officer.

[Kevin Brennan]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is it a point of order or a point of information to point out that the Prime Minister’s special adviser, Dominic Cummings, asked to examine the private text messages on the telephone of a Government employee?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has made his own point in his own way, and he may wish to expatiate further on that matter if he catches my eye in the course of the debate. Meanwhile, it is on the record and will be widely observed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I apologise; I am ahead of myself. I was so captivated by the Secretary of State’s munificence that I neglected the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), which I must tell all observers is a very risky enterprise. Let’s hear from the fella.

[Kevin Brennan]

I will not take it personally, Mr Speaker.

While the Secretary of State is in the mood for holiday gifts, the latest Government statistics show that 61% of those working in music, performing and visual arts are self-employed, so will the Secretary of State update shared parental leave rules to include self-employed people to prevent talented women from having to leave their careers in the creative industries and other industries when they have children?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 23rd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May I recommend to the Minister the RSC production of “As You Like It” that my brother is appearing in at Stratford-on-Avon?

As part of the preparations for leaving the EU, the EU has indicated that there will be an opportunity for reciprocal agreement for up to 90 days in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Given the importance of the EU for our performing artists, and for our world-leading musicians as well, can the Minister give us the strongest possible indication that the Government will honour that reciprocal deal with the EU—whoever ends up in charge?

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman’s brother is a magnificent performer, but I hope he will forgive me if I add that my daughter, Jemima, will be performing in “As You Like It” at her primary school in a matter of days, and it is a key priority for me to observe her at work.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

None of us—myself included—has Kantian perfect information on the subject, and I witnessed that there was some uncertainty. What I can vouchsafe to the hon. Gentleman, without causing any offence, is that in so far as there was some uncertainty about the vote, it was about whether it was 310 each or whether, as in the view of one Government Whip—it was not advanced with great certainty—the Government might have secured 311 votes. I do not think that there is any suggestion that the decision has worked against the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn). In the event that there was an error, I think that I will resort to the Willie Whitelaw defence at this stage: let us cross that bridge if we come to it. I am not anticipating that we will do so. I thought it prudent to ask the Government and Opposition Chief Whips to confirm, and they did so amicably, as far as I know, and appeared to reach an agreed conclusion. There is no need to create a row, on top of all other rows, where there is none.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. That is also my understanding of what happened in 1993, but can you clarify, just for the House’s information, whether the result of the vote that has just been announced is based on the Whips’ count or on the Clerks’ count?

[Mr Speaker]

The answer is that it is based on the Whips’ count, but the Clerks’ count is the same. I am not inviting the hon. Gentleman to put that in his pipe and smoke it, because I am sure that he does not have a pipe and, as far as I know, he does not smoke. Nevertheless, I have given him an answer, which I hope sates his appetite for further inquiry.

Main Question put.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 28th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

As far as staff are concerned, one would expect them to be fully recompensed. That is the working principle here. I cannot comment about others. I mean no disrespect to them, but journalists, who are not employees of the House or Members, are a different matter, and the responsibility there is someone else’s. As far as those here are concerned, however, the working assumption must be that people are properly recompensed. I understand the anxiety that many people will feel, however, and I hope there will be clarity sooner rather than later.

Insofar as the hon. Lady asks where people should go with their concerns, or what recourse they have to ensure that those concerns are expressed, I would say that the trade unions and staff associations are obvious bodies to express concerns to. Those institutions regularly interact with the House of Commons Commission and the Clerk of the House, who is head of the House Service, not to mention the Director General of the House. There are, then, avenues, and they are quite well known, and the trade unions in this place are perfectly well aware of how to get their messages across—and it is absolutely right that they are got across.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Am I right in interpreting the business of the House motion to mean that we could be debating it until any hour tonight prior to the Adjournment debate, that the Government need not announce tomorrow’s business until the end of the Adjournment debate and that therefore it could be quite a late hour, should they choose to put in a lot of people to speak to the business of the House motion, before we have any concept of what we are debating tomorrow?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman’s understanding is correct. That could happen. It is what would be called a worst-case scenario, but I believe it to be so. I think that the Leader of the House is cautiously optimistic that that scenario will not transpire, but I cannot rule it out.

Bill Presented

Domestic Properties (Minimum Energy Performance) (No.2)

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Sir David Amess presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to ensure that domestic properties have a minimum energy performance rating of C on an Energy Performance Certificate; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 5 April; and to be printed (Bill 369).

Sittings of the House (29 March)

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 28th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I have no knowledge of that matter, which is on a very different pay grade.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Government now having tabled the motion for tomorrow, is it possible that you could give us an indication at this time—I realise that this session could proceed until any hour—as to how you intend to treat possible amendments and any time limit for the submission of amendments, including manuscript amendments?

[Mr Speaker]

Ordinarily, as the hon. Gentleman will know, the attitude would be that amendments should be submitted before the rise of the House. There is, however, a degree of unpredictability as to how long this session will run today on the sittings of the House motion, and therefore I am open to the possibility of manuscript amendments.

Forgive me, my response to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was perhaps not entirely self-contained. He was quizzical about the matter of amendments, and I said that the business of the House motion governing the proceedings tomorrow was a relatively standard business of the House motion, but it might be worth while my opening that envelope and explaining what that means.

Because there is a business of the House motion, after the moment of interruption, the questions will be able to be put, and that means that such amendments as have been selected, if there is more than one, will be able to be voted upon by the House, so there is no danger of our running out of time for deciding upon amendments. I have, at this stage, no way of knowing whether I will select one amendment or multiple amendments, but the hon. Gentleman need not be concerned on that front.

EU Withdrawal Agreement: Legal Changes

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 11th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

It is customary on these occasions for the House to complain that the Government have sent the monkey and not the organ grinder, but on this occasion we have not even got the monkey—we have not even got the codpiece. [Hon. Members: “Oh!”] While the Minister is enjoying his very exciting work experience day, can he confirm one thing that he said earlier in this statement, which was that the Attorney General’s advice would be available before the House sits tomorrow? Can he confirm that that will be the case—that it will be available before the House sits, and not just before the debate?

[Mr Speaker]

I just say for the benefit of hon. and right hon. Members that the hon. Gentleman’s choice of language is really a matter of taste rather than of order. I know that the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) will not take it in the wrong spirit if I say that whoever else might be in a position to complain about others’ use of language, I think that he is not on strong ground on that front. I have tended to indulge him because I know that he speaks with passion and conviction, but he tends to be rather robust in his treatment of others, so, all of a sudden, objecting to the hon. Gentleman is perhaps for someone else to do.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 11th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Taking the last point first, I am happy to agree with the hon. Gentleman and to confirm that it is certainly not my view that it is desirable to proceed on the basis of manuscript amendments. It is far preferable that colleagues should have plenty of time in which to table amendments in the usual way. If, however, that proves not to be possible, I have to adjust. It is obviously much more popular with Members of the House if I say, yes, I will consider manuscript amendments than if I simply preclude them from consideration.

As for the question of motion singular or motion plural, I think that the hon. Gentleman is, as usual right: there will need to be two motions. [Interruption.] I am grateful. It is always useful to have the ballast of endorsement from a sedentary position from the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois). I cannot count on it at all times, and therefore, when I have it, I should put it in the bank and earn interest on it. Yes, there will need to be two motions: a business of the House motion and a substantive motion relating to the withdrawal agreement. It would be helpful to know about that earlier rather than later.

At this stage, I do not know whether the Government are thinking in terms of protected time—that is to say, a guaranteed number of hours irrespective of when we start—or in terms of a conclusion of the debate at 7 o’clock and votes immediately thereafter. Again, it would be helpful to know earlier rather than later. Of course, it is perfectly possible, and highly desirable, that tonight’s statement either by the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), if he is delivering it, or—more likely, perhaps—by the Secretary of State for Brexit, makes that clear. That will then satisfy not only the curiosity of the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) but the interests of a great many other Members besides.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As I have always understood it, our system is based on Cabinet government. Does what we have now heard mean that the Government will be laying a motion to which they are inviting amendments from Members of this House and which will be about the most important decision we have taken since the second world war, and it will not even have been considered by the Cabinet?

[Mr Speaker]

Well, I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I think that that is, I will not say above or below my pay grade, but on a different remuneration scale—let me put it like that. I know that he served with very considerable distinction as a Minister in the past. In fact, I remember beetling over to his ministerial office on one occasion in years gone by. He was a figure of considerable celebrity in the then Government. I have never been a Minister, still less a member of the Cabinet. Quite how the Cabinet operates, when it meets and what is discussed, I have no way of knowing, so whether the Cabinet will have met to discuss this matter, I do not know. But I can say to the hon. Gentleman that whatever motions are tabled, they will be tabled in the name, and therefore with the authority and, by implication, the full agreement, implicit if not explicit, of the Government.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 11th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

My understanding—there was some earlier huddled consultation about this matter between me and the Clerks at the Table—is that the documents were laid at 10.58 pm. I say that for the benefit of the hon. Gentleman and the House. I would not want, particularly when engaging with someone of his seniority and distinction, to be imprecise, and I certainly would not want to say 10.57 pm or 10.59 pm, subsequently to be corrected by the hon. Gentleman, who is a stickler for precision at all times. I gather they were laid at 10.58 pm and then distributed more widely thereafter. I hope that that is helpful in a factual sense. It may not be as satisfactory as he would like—that is qualitatively a different point—but it is the factual answer.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to over-egg the point, but it is important for what Ministers say to the Chamber from the Dispatch Box to be accurate, and for there to be a procedure whereby, if there is a change, they can inform the House about that change and the reasons for it. Earlier today, we were given assurances about the timing of the legal advice from the Attorney General in a ministerial statement, and as far as I am aware, no statement was given to the House altering the information that was presented to Members. What is the procedure that Ministers should follow in such circumstances?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is that if someone inadvertently gives incorrect information to the House, it is a matter of honour for that Member to take the opportunity to correct the record at the earliest possible opportunity. I do not know whether that will prove to be so in this case, for it is as yet uncertain when the legal advice will be published. To be fair to the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), I think that, in responding to questions, he gave the House his honest assessment, at the point at which he gave it, of when he thought that the material would be provided. I know that the hon. Gentleman is every bit as honourable as his late and distinguished father, and I think that if he were subsequently to discover that he had given incorrect information to the House, he would literally be rushing—“rushing” is not too strong a word—to the Dispatch Box to correct the record.

I trust that the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) will be in his place tomorrow to discover what the situation is. I think that there is a premium on early discovery of this advice, but we have already been through the question of how the views of the Attorney General can be established and how he can be probed before the debate if Members are so inclined. [Interruption.] Somebody is muttering something about codpieces from a sedentary position—and not just somebody: no less a figure than the Solicitor General. I am sure that the chuntering is eloquent, of a fashion.

Let me say, before we proceed, that I hope it will be helpful to the House if I indicate an advisory cut-off time of 10.30 on Tuesday morning for manuscript amendments to tomorrow’s motion. Amendments that reach the Table Office before the rise of the House tonight will appear on the Order Paper in the usual way. The Table Office will arrange publication and distribution of a consolidated amendment list as soon as possible after 10.30 am on Tuesday, including all the manuscript amendments. I will announce my selection of amendments in the usual way at the beginning of the debate. I hope that that is helpful to colleagues.

If there are no more points of order, we will proceed with the motions on the Order Paper. [Interruption.] That is very helpful, and I am genuinely grateful, but I was proposing in any case—partly for the reason hinted at by the adviser at the Chair—to take the motions separately.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 18th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

That was a parliamentarian’s tribute; I do not think I can speak more highly of what the hon. Gentleman has said than to make that observation. I thank both colleagues.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I knew Paul long before he was a Member of Parliament, when he was a county councillor in Gwent in the 1980s. I would just like to add to the wonderful tribute from my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) by saying that all of us fall into different categories as politicians: some are factory farmed, and some are free range, but Paul was the most free range, organic of politicians, and we should all aspire to follow his example.

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

T6. It is Independent Venue Week. Such venues are the research and development to a £4.5 billion music industry, but a third of them have closed in the past decade. Why is the Chancellor, who has Runnymede Jazz Club in his constituency, giving a rates discount to pubs but not to music venues? Will he look at that again?

[Mr Speaker]

Let us hear about the jazz situation in Runnymede.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 14th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am not a member of the Liaison Committee. I will look at the situation on a case-by-case basis. If the circumstance arises, I shall make an appropriate judgment. I think we should leave it there. May I very gently say to the hon. Lady that the late Lord Whitelaw was so shrewd when he said that he personally preferred to cross bridges only when he came to them?

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In my 17 years in the House, including two years as a Government Whip, I found out one thing, which is that if Members act as a Whip’s lickspittle, they get very little respect from other Members of the House—even, ultimately, from their own Whips.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has made his own point in his own way with considerable force and alacrity. I am not going to accuse anybody of being—

Business of the House (European Union (Withdrawal) Act)

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope it is a point of order, rather than a point of frustration.

[Kevin Brennan]

What do these comments have to do with the business of the House?

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the Leader of the House is providing the context for what she intends to say. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn) is in an animated state and is expressing through wild gesticulation her dissatisfaction with that state of affairs, but I think a modest forbearance would be seemly.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

That is absolutely true. It is also true, of course, that the Government have made clear their commitment to an amendable motion. The Leader of the House has said that a number of times in the Chamber and the point has been made by the Prime Minister as well. I know there has been no movement from that position at all. An amendable motion will be put to the House. I think it is important to be clear about that.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the importance of British food and drink? Instead of Peroni and pizza, would it not be better if the infamous five group had something like Somerset cider, cheddar cheese and Jacob’s crackers?

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

My instant response to the hon. Lady is to mention to her—she will be aware of this fact, but it may not be known to people observing our proceedings—that an important Bill, the Offensive Weapons Bill, is about to be debated on Second Reading. If I may politely say so, that would be a convenient opportunity again to flag up her discontent on the matter. I thank her for giving me notice of this point of order, and I would say, more widely, that I entirely understand her—and, in her position, I would feel—great annoyance that it seems to be taking an inordinately long time to arrange a meeting with Home Office Ministers to discuss these very serious matters, and specifically to honour, as I understand from what she has said, a commitment to her. The concern will have been noted by those on the Treasury Bench, and I hope that a meeting will be swiftly arranged. It would be unfortunate—not just in terms of inconvenience to the hon. Lady, but of embarrassment to the occupants of the Treasury Bench—if it were necessary for her to raise this matter in the Chamber on a subsequent day, so I hope that help will be at hand sooner rather than later.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps surprisingly, the Prime Minister did not choose to tell the House during Prime Minister’s Question Time about the resignation this morning of the leader of the Welsh Conservative party over remarks he made about Brexit and business. This was despite their being indistinguishable from the remarks made by the Foreign Secretary, apart from the swearing. Is there any means by which this matter could be put on the record?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman, who is a very experienced and dextrous Member of this House, has found his own salvation. Furthermore, he has not just stumbled into finding it; he knows that by the utterly bogus device of a contrived point of order he has achieved his objective, as his demonstration of amusement evidently testifies.

Data Protection Bill [Lords]

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Monday 5th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I note that the Minister has not yet concluded her remarks, but it seems that she might do so before the moment of interruption. There are two outstanding motions on the Order Paper to be voted on following the decision on Second Reading: the programme motion and the money resolution. I note that, under Standing Order No. 83A(7) and Standing Order No. 52(1)(a), they are not subject to debate, but if there were any time left over between the conclusion of the Minister’s remarks and the moment of interruption, would it be possible to discuss those two motions?

[Mr Speaker]

No, but the hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point. The fact that he has done so has given me an opportunity to clarify the matter for the benefit of the House.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 27th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman has made his own point and it is a factual one. It is on the record and it can be shared, not only with all parliamentary colleagues, but, conceivably, with the masses in his constituency of Harlow.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I think I ought to take the hon. Member for Chesterfield first, so the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) can wait.

[Mr Speaker]

Yes, the hon. Gentleman has corrected the record, and I am grateful to him for his courtesy in doing so.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Further to the point of order of my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), if there are no other means by which the House could hold the former Universities Minister, the Minister of State, Department for Transport, the hon. Member for Orpington (Joseph Johnson), to account, is it still in order to table a motion to reduce his salary as a way of expressing the House’s concern about that lack of accountability?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 8th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Today Front-Bench Members will have to be particularly brief as there is heavy pressure on time and I am trying to accommodate a lot of colleagues.

[Kevin Brennan]

What action does the Secretary of State think should be taken against an app that breaches key provisions of the Data Protection Act and the privacy and electronic communications regulations, and that is not GDPR—general data protection regulation—compliant?

[Kevin Brennan]

Exactly, because the app I am talking about does not just belong to the Secretary of State, but is named after him, and the general public need to be protected from their privacy being invaded by Matt Hancock, their personal information being shared with third parties by Matt Hancock and their private photos being accessed by Matt Hancock. Will he undertake to ensure that Matt Hancock complies fully with all data protection regulations in future, and explain why he thinks other people should abide by their legal obligations with regard to data protection if Matt Hancock does not?

[Mr Speaker]

I must say that I am surprised the Secretary of State did not call his app “Hancock-Disraeli”.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her point of order, and for her courtesy in giving me notice of her intention to raise it. She has paid warm and eloquent tribute to young Owen Jenkins, and I am sure she speaks for all of us in saying that we send our deepest condolences to all his friends and family. We shall remember the remarkable courage that he showed. I am not aware of the intention on the part of any Minister to come to the House to make a statement on this matter, but the right hon. Lady asked whether it would be in order for a Minister to do so. It certainly would, and we still have several sitting days before the recess. If a Minister were to come to the House to make a statement on that matter, to explain the delineation of functions and the allocation of responsibilities and to answer questions about this, that would be very well received by the House and, I dare say, by the family of young Owen Jenkins.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that the Prime Minister has announced that there is to be a judge-led public inquiry into the contaminated blood scandal. Would it not have been better if, just for once, such an announcement could have been made to hon. Members in this House?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is that it is better if key announcements of policy or other Government intent are communicated first to the House when the House is in session. I have been attending to my duties in the Chair, so I am unaware of the announcement. It may well be that it will be warmly welcomed, and I do not cavil at that, but the hon. Gentleman asked me a specific question, to which I have given him a specific answer.

Yesterday, when the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) sought leave to secure an emergency debate on a specific and important matter, namely her sense of the need for a full public inquiry into the contaminated blood scandal, there had obviously been no such announcement. I judge that it was indeed a proper matter to be debated under the terms of Standing Order No. 24. Notwithstanding any announcement outside of the House, an indication of parliamentary opinion on the subject remains extremely germane and arguably just as urgent. I agreed to it yesterday but, more particularly, the House gave its approval to the hon. Lady to pursue this matter, and I felt and still feel that it warranted and warrants up to three hours of debate today. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), but the announcement certainly does not in any way dissuade us from a proper and comprehensive focus on this matter now.

Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

3rd reading: House of Commons
Monday 20th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 4, page 2, line 6, at end insert

“, which includes a digital attack if the cultural property in question is in digital form.”

This amendment would make explicit that an offence is committed if the act committed under paragraphs (a) to (e) of paragraph 1 of Article 15 of the Second Protocol is a digital attack, where the cultural property in question is in digital form.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 5, page 2, line 17, at end insert

“, or

(c) a foreign national serving under the military command of the UK Armed Forces.”

This amendment would ensure that an offence is committed if an act described in paragraph 1(d) or (e) of Article 15 of the Second Protocol is committed by any foreign national serving under the military command of the UK Armed Forces.

Amendment 1, in clause 17, page 8, line 12, leave out

“or having reason to suspect”.

Amendment 2, page 8, line 12, leave out “having reason to suspect” and insert “believing”.

Amendment 3, page 8, line 12, leave out “having reason to suspect” and insert “suspecting”.

[Kevin Brennan]

The amendment seeks to probe the Government’s thinking on whether digital attacks on cultural property would be considered as damaging cultural property under the Bill. I say in passing that we very much support the Bill, having first introduced it ourselves, but sadly we ran out of time in the Parliament prior to 2010. The Bill will bring into domestic law the offence created by article 15 of the second protocol to the 1954 Hague convention, so it is not before time. I am glad that there is House-wide support for the Bill, but we want to probe a few more points during the remaining stages, to make sure that the Government’s position is clear and on the record before it is sent for Royal Assent.

During previous debates, both here and in the other place, there have been many discussions about the digital reach of the Bill. Given that the original convention was written in 1954, with a subsequent protocol, that was obviously long before issues of digital property would have been actively considered. We welcome the numerous assurances provided by the Government, including by the Minister in Committee, that cultural property in digital form could be protected. If it is true that digital property is protected under the Bill, it would be natural that digital attacks on that property are also covered. The purpose of the amendment is to get the Government to confirm whether that is the case.

It would not be reasonable to recognise digital cultural property but not digital attacks on such property. Given that the Bill involves creating criminal offences, it is important that the Government put their thinking on the record. Their response to an amendment discussed in Committee highlights the need for clarity. We debated whether the cultural emblem of the blue shield, which the Bill introduces from the convention and which marks a protected item, could be shown in digital form. The Minister said:

“For modern, born-digital material, such as films and music, in practice we would expect the emblem to be displayed on the physical object on which the material is stored or on the building in which the physical storage object is kept, rather than being displayed digitally. That would help to ensure that the emblem is readily visible. That is not to say that it cannot also be depicted in digital form.”––[Official Report, Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) [Lords] Public Bill Committee, 15 November 2016; c. 9.]

That could be interpreted as assuming that cultural property, even that which is digital, would be attacked only in a physical sense—in other words, that any attacker would be in close physical proximity to the item and able to see the blue shield on its casing. In reality, however, digital content is more likely to be attacked by way of hacking, in which case the question of how the blue shield could flag up digital cultural property to a potential attacker is relevant. Somebody hacking into a database of some sort will not see the shield on the hard drive’s casing.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

What a splendid note on which to finish. The man is an inspiration.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Lidington or Federer?

[Mr Speaker]

I do not wish to be discourteous to the Leader of the House, but I actually had Federer in mind.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are not as slow as all that. The right hon. Gentleman has made that point with force and eloquence, but it does not improve by being repeated.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I am afraid that the Minister’s laconic attitude towards this is not helpful at all. He has just said that the appointments were made on merit and that had he gone through with the recommended appointment it would have been an example of tokenism. That is an absolute insult to the candidate, who, as he well knows, was perfectly well qualified and was recommended for appointment on merit.

When are we going to get an end to the uncertainty about Channel 4? The Secretary of State has been in place for 150 days. The sector is in absolute despair about the lack of a decision from the Government. When will we get an answer?

Speaker's Statement

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 14th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

It has to be said that the hon. Gentleman is an ingenious fellow, and he has regularly demonstrated his ingenuity since his election to the House. I do not blame him for seeking to shoehorn in his current preoccupation when we are discussing the timetable for elections to the vacant Chairs of Committees. However, the proper answer for me to give him is that it is not a matter for the Chair. It will be a matter for the Committee concerned to decide. If the hon. Gentleman were afflicted with a sudden bout of self-doubt or reticence, causing him to be reluctant or unable to express his view on this matter, I would be concerned, but he will not be, and therefore I am not.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that the Leader of the House is in his place. Would it be in order, for the benefit of the House, for him to rise at the Dispatch Box and put the House out of its misery on the Government’s plan for the dates of the election of Select Committee Chairs?

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

It would be rather disturbing, it has to be said, if a Minister of the Cabinet Office were unaware of the imminent publication in his, or a departmental colleague’s, name of such a report. I find that very hard to credit. It might well be regarded as discourteous; that is, to some extent, a matter of opinion. What I can safely say is that it was, at the very least, unhelpful. There is a general principle that ministerial answers should be as informative as possible, so it was unhelpful. I think I can say—possibly at the risk of irritating a Cabinet Office Minister, which I will have to bear with stoicism and fortitude—that at the very least it was extremely unimaginative of the Minister answering not to consider providing more information or, alternatively, to consider and then to decline. Very unsatisfactory—he really ought to be able to do better than that.

The great thing that we have on our side is that the new Leader of the House—there have been lots of illustrious Leaders of the House—as was flagged up a moment ago, is, of course, I think twice a winner on “University Challenge”, with a gap of, I think, 30 years in between. It used to be said that the former Member for Havant, in the previous Parliament, was “Two Brains”. I leave colleagues to speculate or, indeed, to compute how many brains the Leader of the House has. He is a very cerebral fellow, and I am sure that he can spawn more imaginative and considerate thinking among his ministerial colleagues.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Oh, very well. I call Kevin Brennan, and we will then come to the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Kevin Brennan]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. May I point out, in all modesty, that I too have twice been a winner on “University Challenge”?

[Mr Speaker]

I must admit that I did not know that, but I do now, and I promise not to forget it.

Petitions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I have a petition from Gruffydd Meredith. The petition states:

The petition of Gruffydd Meredith,

Declares that there should be an option for new Welsh Assembly members to swear an oath or make an affirmation to the people of Wales instead of to a monarchy and/or crown; further that there should still be an option for new Welsh Assembly members to swear an oath or to make an affirmation to a monarchy if they so wished; further that this would provide a fairer choice for new elected representative which would be a better reflection of the broad scope of view in society; further that there is no requirement for members of the Northern Ireland Assembly to take any oath or affirmation but instead requires that members take a Pledge of Office; further that this proposed similar choice for Wales is important for Welsh political plurality and fairness; and further that an online petition on a similar matter has been signed by over 1,000 individuals.

The petitioner therefore requests that the House of Commons makes the necessary amendments to any present or draft legislation which governs the taking of oaths and the making of the affirmation to ensure that new Welsh Assembly members have the option to swear an oath or make an affirmation to the people of Wales rather than to a monarchy and/or crown.

And the petitioner remains, etc.

[P001701]

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mark Menzies to present a petition. Not here. Where is the fella?

Welsh Assembly Oath or Affirmation

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Commons Chamber

Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)

- Hansard -

I have a petition from Gruffydd Meredith. The petition states:

The petition of Gruffydd Meredith,

Declares that there should be an option for new Welsh Assembly members to swear an oath or make an affirmation to the people of Wales instead of to a monarchy and/or crown; further that there should still be an option for new Welsh Assembly members to swear an oath or to make an affirmation to a monarchy if they so wished; further that this would provide a fairer choice for new elected representative which would be a better reflection of the broad scope of view in society; further that there is no requirement for members of the Northern Ireland Assembly to take any oath or affirmation but instead requires that members take a Pledge of Office; further that this proposed similar choice for Wales is important for Welsh political plurality and fairness; and further that an online petition on a similar matter has been signed by over 1,000 individuals.

The petitioner therefore requests that the House of Commons makes the necessary amendments to any present or draft legislation which governs the taking of oaths and the making of the affirmation to ensure that new Welsh Assembly members have the option to swear an oath or make an affirmation to the people of Wales rather than to a monarchy and/or crown.

And the petitioner remains, etc.

[P001701]

Mr Speaker

- Hansard - - Excerpts

I call Mark Menzies to present a petition. Not here. Where is the fella?

Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hope that it is a point of order. My understanding is that the passing of amendment 1 does not affect the presence of schedule 5, which is entitled “Sunday opening hours: rights of shop workers”, and that, as we send the Bill to the House of Lords, those workers’ rights are enshrined in it.

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order is that the passage of amendment 1 does not affect the presence of the schedule in the Bill. As I am not an expert on legislative interpretation and impact, and it is not for me to speculate upon that, I will not, but I stand by—on, of course, the basis of advice, and my own study—the first part of my answer to the point of order. I have sought to give that information in a dispassionate way, responding to a factual inquiry with what I understand to be a factual response.

Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 8th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 8—Disposal of Crown’s shares in UK Green Investment Bank Company: purchaser’s obligations—

‘Before any sale of the Crown’s shares in the UK Green Investment Bank Company takes place each prospective purchaser must enter an enforceable undertaking to fully fund the Bank’s current five year business plan.”

This new clause would ensure that the Green Investment Bank is maintained as a single, functioning institution and can continue to invest in the UK’s low carbon economy at the same level as was planned prior to privatisation.

Amendment 17, in clause 37, page 54, line 44, at end insert—

“6B Report on remuneration of chair, non-executive directors and executive team

(1) For each year following a disposal of shares held by the Crown in a UK Green Investment Bank company the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a report on the remuneration of the company’s chair, non-executive directors and executive team by the company.

(2) The report shall include a statement of the framework or broad policy for the remuneration of the above individuals.

(3) The report shall include the value of the following, where applicable, in respect of each individual—

(a) salary or fee,

(b) pension,

(c) other cash or non-cash benefits, including bonus or performance-related payments, and

(d) shareholdings in a UK Green Investment Bank company.”

This amendment would require, following a disposal of shares in a UK Green Investment Bank company, that the Secretary of State to report annually on the remuneration of the Chair, non-executive directors and Executive Team of the company.

[Kevin Brennan]

New clause 4 might be referred to as the “hokey-cokey clause” because it has been in, out, and shaken all about during the passage of the Bill. I am not exaggerating when I say that, because this new clause should still be in the Bill. You may not be aware of this, Mr Speaker, so I will read briefly from the record about what happened with this clause in Committee.

In Committee the Chair put the question that clause 32 stand part of the Bill, and hon. Members responded “Aye”. The Chair asked for votes to the contrary, and said, “I think the Ayes have it.” The Minister then moved that the clause should not stand part of the Bill, and I raised a point of order to the Chair to point out that the Committee had just voted that the clause should stand part of the Bill, and that the Minister could not then move that it should not. The Chair then said:

“For clarity, I will put the question again.”––[Official Report, Enterprise Public Bill Committee, 23 February 2016; c. 201.]

The clause was accepted in Committee, but the vote was taken a second time because the Chair, in a spirit of extraordinary generosity and to save the Minister’s blushes, allowed a second vote. First the clause was in, then it was out, and today we are suggesting that new clause 4 should again be included in the Bill. It is not really a new clause; it was clause 32 when we considered the Bill in Committee.

The Government are wary of new clause 4, or old clause 32, because they fear that the Green Investment Bank’s borrowing would, because of the position taken by the Office for National Statistics, remain on the Government’s books and be classed as public sector debt after privatisation. If there were any suggestion of statutory control of the Green Investment Bank’s purpose, the ONS would insist that it stayed on the books.

There is currently statutory control of the Green Investment Bank’s purpose, to ensure that it is green and not just like any other investment bank. The Green Investment Bank is supposed to be a different kind of entity; it is not supposed to be like the bank that the Secretary of State worked for when he earned £3 million a year, and which was fined £600,000 by the European Union for fiddling interest rates. It is not supposed to be that kind of institution; it is supposed to be completely different and focused on sustainable investment in green projects, not based on the unsustainable culture of greed that brought the world economy to its knees in 2008, with millions of hard-working families still suffering the consequences of that. If the Green Investment Bank is meant to be a new kind of institution, how do we ensure that it remains so if the Government strip it of its statutory purpose, which is to invest in green projects?

In Committee we asked whether the Government should allow that potential ruling by the ONS to drive completely in this important area of sustainable public policy, but the ONS point is a technical matter. If the Green Investment Bank remains on the books after privatisation, that does not reflect any problematic public debt. It may cosmetically spoil the look of the Chancellor’s forecasts on public debt, but it would not change the fundamental underlying substance of public finances. In other words, statutory protection for the Green Investment Bank’s purposes is to be removed by the Government because of an accounting convention that is inconvenient to their political narrative. It is spin over substance on stilts.

As we discussed in Committee, the Green Investment Bank is not getting the same treatment as the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. The Treasury is all too ready to allow UK borrowing to be part of financing that bank, and it was not worried at all that public debt will be part of its financing. However, it is extremely reluctant to allow the same treatment for the Green Investment Bank.

You will not be surprised to hear, Mr Speaker, that I praised the former coalition Government for introducing the Green Investment Bank. Policy in that area can be difficult to implement, because by its very nature it is new and innovative—in Committee I quoted the wise words, as ever, of Kermit the Frog who said, or sang or croaked, “It’s not easy being green”. That is true. It is not easy, and this is an innovative and effective piece of public policy, and I praise the former coalition Government for introducing it.

Trade Union Bill

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

I just wish to confirm that we wish to push amendment 6 to a vote.

[Mr Speaker]

I am exceptionally grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I had rather anticipated that.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Standing Orders (Public Business)

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Now that we have created different classes of MP, would it be convenient for the House to consider issuing different coloured passes to different types of MP so that it is easier for them to be recognised in Committees and Divisions? Perhaps we could have white passes for English Members, blue for the Scottish, red for the Welsh, and green for those from Northern Ireland.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has made his point in his own way, and I feel sure that its thrust, or what Jack Straw used to call its gravamen, will be winging its way to Cardiff media outlets ere long. Meanwhile, his point is on the record and I will not respond.

Steel Industry

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before we proceed, let me gently say to the Secretary of State that although on a one-to-one basis I always think him a very civil fellow, it is a considerable discourtesy or incompetence—or both—for a Secretary of State to take twice the length of time allocated for answering an urgent question. If the right hon. Gentleman judges that he has more material that he wishes to share with the House, which of itself could be very helpful, that is fine—but the implication of that is blindingly obvious: the right hon. Gentleman should offer to deliver an oral statement of up to 10 minutes. What he should not do is fail to communicate with me in advance, ignore the convention and greatly exceed his allotted time. It is, I am afraid, discourteous and incompetent—and it must not happen again.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

We would have welcomed a statement from the Secretary of State. Today he has brought more devastating news for British steelworkers at Cambuslang, Motherwell and Scunthorpe and concerns for workers employed by Caparo, following the devastating news of the hard closure of the Redcar plant last week. May I, on behalf of the Opposition, convey our solidarity with those who have been affected—the individuals concerned, their trade unions, their families and their communities—and ask the Government to do all they can to work with every agency and jurisdiction to support them?

Let me say first to the Secretary of State that it does not help him to continue the spin about the £80 million. The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise admitted last week that it was £50 million, and even that is questionable. Spinning does not help the workers one little bit.

Let me further say to the Secretary of State that all Opposition Members understand the real and difficult problems facing the steel industry. Some of us have worked in the industry ourselves, or have family members involved in it. We know about the heat of the steel plant and the whiff of the coke ovens. We understand all too well that the industry faces huge challenges, not least as a result of not being allowed to operate on a level playing field. No one is trying to minimise those challenges. What we cannot understand is why Ministers do not appear even to have a view on what represents a minimum credible steelmaking capacity in Britain’s long-term strategic interests.

The overwhelming impression given by the Secretary of State and his colleagues is that, despite their high-flown rhetoric about northern powerhouses and the march of the makers, they seem content to allow Britain’s entire steelmaking capacity to disappear in the face of blatant Chinese dumping. Will the Secretary of State tell the House—and we need a direct answer to this, so I hope the Minister will stop chuntering—whether he believes that the price of the Chinese steel that is being dumped on our shores reflects the true cost of producing it? If not, what is he doing about it? Even if the workers producing steel plate at Scunthorpe offered to work for nothing, that Chinese price could not be matched.

While the Chinese President is riding down the Mall in a gilded state coach, British workers are being laid off because our Government are not standing up for them. What is the Secretary of State doing to ensure a level playing field so that the British steel industry can have a future? Will he immediately carry out the five emergency actions for which the industry called at the steel summit? He mentioned three actions in his statement, but I fear that they may be too little, too late. Why has he so far been so reluctant to defend the British steel industry during this crisis, when it is so important to our strategic national interests? Will he tell us now whether the Government even have a position on what represents the minimum credible steelmaking capacity in Britain’s strategic interests? If they do, what is it?

Notwithstanding the Secretary of State’s well-advertised laissez-faire views, will he now reverse his refusal even to accept that the Government need an industrial strategy, and stand up for Britain?

Point of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 16th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Dr Grace Kodindo’s work in Africa with African mothers was the feature of a BBC “Panorama” programme 10 years ago. That resulted in a charity being set up in Cardiff called Life for African Mothers, which celebrates its 10th anniversary this year. The charity has invited Dr Kodindo to the UK to celebrate that anniversary but, despite her great distinction, her visa has been turned down by the Home Office. Other than speaking to the Chair of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, as I have done, is there any way in which I can use the offices of the House to draw the matter urgently to the attention of Home Office Ministers?

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the hon. Gentleman is slightly ahead of himself. The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) is not currently the Chair of the Committee, although I know at what the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) was driving. He asks how he can highlight the matter, and it is clear from the puckish grin on his face that he knows that he has already succeeded in doing so. Many years ago, he accused me of suffering from compulsive questioning disorder, and I wore that as a badge of pride. He is no mean questioner himself, and he will use other opportunities in the House to air the matter, either through questions or, if necessary, through debate. If there are no further points of order, we will move on.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 8th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Alex Cunningham. Not here.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

T4. Will the Defence Secretary clarify something he said earlier about the number of boots currently on the ground in Iraq? He said 250 troops were currently deployed, whereas The Guardian reports that the deployment of an additional 125 troops will take the number of“UK military personnel involved in Iraq-related missions to 900.”The Daily Telegraph and The Independent mention similar figures. Will he clarify why those press reports are different from what he told the House earlier?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I very gently point out that we are not in the reading room of the Bearsden public library and that hon. Members should not read a newspaper unless it relates to the matter currently under consideration by the House? I say that in a jocular spirit to the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (John Nicolson), who is a literate fellow. I am sure he will savour his enjoyment on a subsequent occasion.

[Kevin Brennan]

He was reading his horoscope. [Laughter.]

[Mr Speaker]

I would not want to suggest that the hon. Gentleman was reading his horoscope. I do not think he was doing anything of the kind—that is a calumny!

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

If memory serves me correctly, Health questions took place relatively recently so it may be some little while before the next scheduled session takes place. However, the hon. Gentleman will be aware that as he raised his point of order, no less illustrious a figure than the Deputy Chief Whip, the right hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Greg Hands), was sitting, as he still is, on the Treasury Bench, and his point will have been heard. Furthermore, the hon. Gentleman will know that we have business questions tomorrow, and I just have a sense that he will be in his place to raise this matter and to demand a statement from the Government.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

He will have to cancel his train ticket now. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

People are going on about train tickets. I am sure that the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) was not proposing to toddle off to Leeds tomorrow morning, but if he was, he might decide to reconsider and to be present for business questions. Only time will tell; we shall see.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 23rd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I simply say two things to the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman). First, the main recourse for a Member disappointed that a matter he or she judges to be urgent is not being aired in the House is of course to apply to me for permission to put an urgent question, 185 of which have, I think, been granted since June 2009. Secondly, although I have made it clear that I think the Leader of the House is absolutely a person of his word and of unimpeachable integrity, I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that if the Speaker were required to apply a sanction every time something said was not subsequently delivered upon, I would be an extraordinarily busy man.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I take the opportunity to apologise to the Leader of the House for suggesting during the business statement that he was wrong to say that the Government Chief Whip was gainfully employed? I understand that the Government Chief Whip and his dog Snowy have just become runners-up in the parliamentary dog of the year competition, so I withdraw the implication that he does not have much to do with his time.

[Mr Speaker]

That is a characteristically resourceful and ingenious use, and abuse, of the point of order procedure by the hon. Gentleman.

Perhaps we can now proceed to the first of the two debates scheduled to take place today under the auspices of the Backbench Business Committee. That first debate is on the repeal of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011. To move the motion—wow, does he look excited about it—I call Sir Edward Leigh.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Dr Andrew Murrison)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has had a number of discussions with the First Minister, Deputy First Minister and Northern Ireland Minister for Education on this issue. Shared education featured prominently at the recent meeting of the Prime Minister, Secretary of State, First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Through the capital borrowing provisions in the economic pact, the Government have supported a number of initiatives to promote shared education, including the Lisanelly project in Omagh. I look forward to visiting Lisanelly shortly. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are very serious matters affecting the people of Northern Ireland, and it would be a mark of respect for the people of Northern Ireland if the questions and the answers could be heard.

[Kevin Brennan]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I recently met the Minister for Education in Northern Ireland and the Chair of the Education Committee there, and we discussed shared education, among other things. I was listening carefully to what the Minister just said and although I would not expect him to have met the Minister for Education, can he confirm whether the Secretary of State has ever done so?

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. For the avoidance of doubt, let me just say that this matter has regularly been raised by Members on both sides of the House, frequently referring to Members on the other side of the House. As Members would expect, I am being strictly and scrupulously impartial and this is not a question of one side needing to get the message rather than the other. The convention is, I think, clear. If an hon. Member is visiting the constituency of another hon. Member on parliamentary or official business, in which category I include party political business, there is an obligation to notify the Member whose constituency is to be visited and to do so in a timely way. I appeal to Members on both sides of the House faithfully to adhere to that convention and in that spirit I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising the point and for doing so in the way that he has.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier, during Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister said in response to a question from me, “I think he will find that the quotes that he has given are not accurate.” First, I did not read out any quotes in my question, and secondly, what I reported to the House about what the head of Pfizer said about job losses and cuts in research following a takeover is entirely accurate. Do we have any redress when the Prime Minister thinks that he can casually traduce an hon. Member just because the facts are inconvenient to him?

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the hon. Gentleman knows that he is continuing the debate. He is doing his best to suppress a puckish grin, as he is perfectly well aware that such redress as he sought has just been made available to him through his use—some might say abuse—of the points of order procedure. I think we will leave it there for today. By the way, the hon. Gentleman says that he has been traduced. I have known him for 13 years and have never regarded him as a particularly delicate or sensitive soul and he bears no scar as far as I can tell—[Interruption.] No more than the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) feels any scar, I suspect, from our robust exchange earlier. He is a good-natured colleague and I think he understands the spirit in which proceedings need to be conducted and the importance of making progress. It is good to see him back in his seat.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 10th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The point is made: as long as right hon. and hon. Members are standing to speak in that debate, I shall be in my Chair.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

We now have a women’s Minister who could not also have the equalities brief because she voted against gay marriage, and an equalities Minister who said that there were no women members of the Monetary Policy Committee because it was appointed on merit. May we have the novel innovation of a joint statement by the women’s Minister and the equalities Minister so that we can find out whether they are singing from the same song sheet?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 24th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Mr Kevin Brennan.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

It is taking months—

[Mr Speaker]

Question 13 is a good idea. The hon. Gentleman, not for the first time, and probably not for the last, is ahead of himself.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

13. What recent assessment he has made of the performance of Capita in relation to personal independence payment assessments.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 11th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I do not know what the Secretary of State is having for breakfast, but it is obviously achieving the desired effect.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State sat on the damning report on the Kings science academy scandal for more than five months. When was he planning to tell us that the school had been fined an additional £4,000 for refusing to implement the direction of the independent review panel? Why is there so much secrecy around these schools? Is it because, as he said earlier, he seems to think that fraud is acceptable as long as those responsible are innovators?

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 14th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for giving notice of his intention to raise it with me. I simply say to him that it has always been for the Government to decide which Minister is responsible for answering questions. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s frustration, but as far as I can see from the material available to me nothing disorderly has occurred. It is often the case that a question put to one Minister can be judged, perfectly reasonably, to be more within the purview of another. If such a judgment has been made, it is not for the Chair to quibble with it. I do not seek to engage the hon. Gentleman further at this time, so he should not spring to his feet and recite to me the question he had posed. I think it is fair to record that in his otherwise unexceptionable letter to me on the matter dated today he does not say what the question was. I have at this stage to conclude that the transfer, though from his vantage point frustrating, was, as I say, not disorderly. But he is nothing if not a perspicacious terrier, and I feel sure that he will use all his intellectual and political resources to test the Deputy Prime Minister in another way on a different occasion. We will leave it there, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman is satisfied.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I like saving up the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) until last, so we will take a point of order from Mr Kevin Brennan.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I apologise for not being able to give you notice of this. The highly acclaimed Ensemble Al-Kindi from Syria was due to appear next week in Cardiff at the world music exhibition but have been denied visas, despite the fact that the following week they will be performing in Helsinki at the Savoy theatre and have visas for the Schengen area from France. Is there any means by which I could draw this case to the attention of Ministers for their urgent consideration today so that they can look at it with a view to reviewing it?

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the hon. Gentleman knows that he has found his own salvation. He has just drawn it to the attention of those on the Government’s Front Bench. The Government Chief Whip, the Patronage Secretary, is in his place, as are other distinguished and senior Ministers. I cannot say that I am familiar with the ensemble concerned, and I have no responsibility, of course, for migration or visa policy. I can say only that if the ensemble is anything like as good as the hon. Gentleman when he is playing in MP4, the people of Cardiff will be sorely deprived by the absence of the said ensemble. We will leave it there for now.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Reports are circulating that No. 10 has indicated that it cannot rule out a recall of Parliament again on Saturday or Sunday to debate this matter further. Have you received any information from the Government in relation to any such request? It would have implications for this evening’s debate.

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is no; the first I have heard of that has been from his lips. We shall leave the matter there for now. He has put his point on the record.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 29th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope that this is a point of order rather than a point of enormous wit—we shall discover.

[Kevin Brennan]

It is not for me to judge, Mr Speaker. During the excellent speech by the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), he was intervened on a couple of times and was referred to as being the “noble” Member. Can you clarify whether or not there are any noble Members in this House? Or are we just all common?

[Mr Speaker]

All right hon. and hon. Members in this Chamber are equal. That is perhaps not the answer that the hon. Gentleman seeks, but it is the answer that he is going to get, especially as his attempted point of order was just that—attempted. It was many things but it was not a point of order.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in the debate and to follow the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), who made a striking and powerful speech. I, like other Members, particularly enjoyed his last point.

I am pleased to be able to speak in opposition to the Government motion and in support of Lords amendments 5 and 23, and I welcome the cross-party support for those amendments in the other place and in the Chamber today. The other place has done democracy a great service by highlighting the link between this Bill and the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011, because, contrary to the point made by the Leader of the House, the impact of these two pieces of legislation together would have been unfairly to reduce the representation of our great cities and urban areas.

A number of Government Members have talked about the simple principle of fairness, and the Leader of the House talked about the disparities in the system. There are disparities, but they are not the ones that he talked about. If I were selected by my party members again, the proposed boundaries would benefit me electorally. Nevertheless, they are unfair and undermine our democracy because of the enormous mismatch between population and registered voters.

Examination Reform

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I will take the hon. Gentleman’s point of order in a moment. Just before I call the Minister for Schools, the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr Laws) to respond from the Government Front Bench, I should say that in order to try and accommodate the level of interest, I have decided to impose an eight-minute limit on each Back-Bench contribution. Mr Brennan, I could never forget you and I was in no danger of doing so.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given that, unusually, the Secretary of State has decided to wind up the debate rather than to respond to the opening speech and has intervened on the shadow Secretary of State on five occasions, is there any means by which the time could be extended to allow the Opposition Front Bench the opportunity to intervene on him the same number of times without him being able to cry shortage of time?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is no, and I should emphasise, for the avoidance of doubt, that nothing disorderly has occurred.

[Kevin Brennan]

I did not say that.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman, as he rightly says, did not say that. The order in which Ministers appear at the Dispatch Box is exclusively a matter for the Government. It may be unusual, but there is nothing improper about it whatsoever. The House will now wish to hear Mr David Laws.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 7th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the hon. Gentleman tells me, but I know that he will appreciate that the programme motion for such matters is not a matter for me. He may be very genuinely concerned about the length of time available for debate on these issues and his concerns will have been heard, but, to put it bluntly, there is nothing I can do about it now and I am not sure that there is anything I can do about it at any stage. However, he has vented his displeasure and I hope that that at least gives him some satisfaction.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

And he is in agreement with the heir to the throne for the first time in 200 years.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are always grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his helpful observations from a sedentary position, but we will come now to the main business.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I always have patience for orderly answers, but not for speeches masquerading as answers. I know the Minister will readily accept that point.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On defence contracts, will the MOD’s current plans inevitably result in more contracts for companies such as G4S?

Secondary Education

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 21st June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

My hon. Friend the shadow Education Secretary has asked me to put on the record the reason for his absence today: he is attending a meeting in Edinburgh with two of his constituents and the Spanish consul-general about the murder of their son in Spain. He sends his apologies.

GCSEs may well need improving, but a two-tier exam system that divides children into winners and losers at 14 is not the answer. The Opposition believe in a modern education system that promotes high standards, rigorous exams and a broad curriculum that prepares young people for the world of work and to succeed in life, but it seems that Ministers are in favour of going back to the future. They have cut education spending by the largest amount since the 1950s. They believe that Victorian-style rote learning is the way to teach our children. They want to bring back a two-tier exam system, designed in the 1950s, that will separate children and close off opportunity.

We on the Opposition Benches believe in rigour and high standards for all, but we also believe in a broad curriculum that prepares young people for work, so we will set a series of tests to ensure that the changes meet both. First, Labour wants higher literacy and numeracy standards. The key is to raise teaching quality across the board. Is there any reason to expect these proposals to deliver that? At best, they are a distraction from the central challenges. Standards rose under Labour because we focused on literacy and numeracy. It was we who inherited a weak system for maths and English from the Tories. Only three in 10 pupils—that is 60%, because I know that the Secretary of State is not very good at maths—got a good GCSE in 1997, more than half—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Sir Tony, you are now officially a statesman, and a statesman should not yell across the Chamber. Calm yourself.

[Mr Speaker]

No point of order is required at this stage. I shall hear the hon. Gentleman on another occasion, with great anticipation.

[Kevin Brennan]

I was just testing their numeracy; the figure is, of course, 30%. We improved literacy and numeracy standards. More than half achieved five good grades at GCSE, including English and maths, in 2010. Secondly, the Government appear to be writing off a quarter of all young people at 14 with the return to the CSE. There is strong evidence that children’s performance—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I feel sure that the hon. Gentleman is moving towards a conclusion—he certainly should be—and it might be useful if there was a question mark somewhere.

[Kevin Brennan]

Of course, Mr Speaker.

How will these measures improve and promote social mobility? How will a return to 1950s qualifications help to prepare young people for a 21st century world of work? Is not this nothing more than a softening-up exercise to disguise a fall in attainment as Tory cuts, disruption and teachers leaving have an effect on pupils’ ability to learn? Parents, pupils and employers will be asking today what evidence there is to suggest that a return, back to the future, to the CSE and O-levels will actually work.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 24th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a day on which we have discovered that the double-dip recession is worse than it was expected to be, may I ask whether we can have a debate on the two great challenges with which the Prime Minister has been wrestling over the last 12 months, so that we can learn which of them he found more daunting—Angry Birds or Fruit Ninjas?

[Mr Speaker]

I see that the Leader of the House is struggling to identify a governmental responsibility, and I must say that I share his struggle. I think that we will move on.

Party Funding

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Minister corrected himself perfectly clearly. I heard him; we all heard him.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister, as Leader of the Opposition, responded to the report mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), entitled “Conduct of Mr David Cameron” and relating to the 2006-07 Session, by saying:

“I would like to assure the Committee”

—in relation to lunches for donors held in his parliamentary office—

“that this will not happen again. I will not hold lunches for members of the Leader’s Group in my Parliamentary office in the future, nor will my office be mentioned in any promotional literature.”

Having had to make that apology to the House, should not the Prime Minister have been extra careful to obey the ministerial code and ensure that there could not even be any possible perception of impropriety in the dinners that he held on public property at No. 10 Downing street?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The appetite has been exhausted.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Point of order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 13th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The written version of the Minister’s statement was not available to Members until 24 minutes into the statement. Is it possible, through your good offices, to remind Ministers of the importance of providing written versions of their statements to Back Benchers in a timely fashion?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I do not think we need to labour this point and I am sure that he would be the last Member of the House who would seek to take any opportunity to do so. The Secretary of State apologised for what I think was an inadvertent error in failing to supply the shadow Secretary of State with a copy of the statement until after he had come into the Chamber. I think that the general expectation that Ministers will do their best is understood and I feel sure that the Secretary of State is as assiduous in discharging his responsibilities as anybody else.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

Tonight my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is holding a reception for St David’s day. Tomorrow the Welsh flag will be flying over No. 10, and I will be attending the Back-Bench St David’s day debate and welcoming Welsh children from the Dreams and Wishes charity to the House of Commons and Gwydyr house. Tomorrow I will also be attending a St David’s day dinner in London and a church service in the Crypt, at St Mary Undercroft. I presented the Prime Minister with daffodils from the national botanic garden of Wales yesterday, and Gwydyr house is full of daffodils.

[Mr Speaker]

Almost enough material for an Adjournment debate.

[Kevin Brennan]

This St David’s day will be tinged with some sadness, as Wales plays a memorial match in my constituency tonight in memory of Gary Speed, the Wales manager who died so tragically at the age of 42. Money will be raised for a charity called CALM—the Campaign Against Living Miserably—to help to prevent suicide among young men. Will the Secretary of State hold a collection in support of that charity at her St David’s day event?

Statements of Taxation

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 25th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am going to put the Question first.

[Kevin Brennan]

It is on this matter.

[Mr Speaker]

Very well, I will take the hon. Gentleman’s point of order.

[Kevin Brennan]

Will you clarify for the House, Mr Speaker, what the position is with regard to voice and vote on ten-minute rule Bills?

[Mr Speaker]

The position is not materially different from the position that applies across the piece, which is that the working assumption is that the vote will follow the voice. I also emphasise to the hon. Gentleman that whether people choose to divide the House is a different matter from what they say by way of expressing opinion. There is no inconsistency there. I hope that that is agreeable to him. I did seek to explain this to the House last week, but I am happy to do so again. If he is still in interrogative mode he will no doubt come back to me, and I will very happily deal with the matter, but at this point I want to put the Question.

Question put and agreed to.

Ordered,

That Ben Gummer, Nicholas Soames, Mr Richard Shepherd, Mr Graham Brady, Justin Tomlinson, Mr Robert Buckland, Karen Bradley, Mr Andrew Tyrie, Steve Baker, Margot James, Tracey Crouch and Kwasi Kwarteng present the Bill.

Ben Gummer accordingly presented the Bill.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 30 March, and to be printed (Bill 277).

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

That point of order was most courteous and the matter rests there. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Lady.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Tomorrow, Mr James Murdoch will return to give evidence to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee. Will you confirm whether it would be in order for the Committee, if it chose to do so under the Parliamentary Witnesses Oaths Act 1871, to require him to give evidence under oath? Will you also confirm that if false evidence were given, he would be subject to penalties for perjury under the Perjury Act 1911?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has correctly stated the procedural position. I am familiar with both those Acts, which are important. I say to him that how these matters are pursued is for the determination of the Chair and members of the Committee.

I think that there was another point of order, but perhaps it or the person responsible for it has been exhausted. That is probably just as well.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman comes in, I know he is bursting with enthusiasm, but he must contain himself.

What I would say to the hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) is that control of that sitting was the responsibility of the Chair in Westminster Hall. It sounds like an intriguing debate, and it may well be that I should study it at some point, but I have nothing to add at this stage.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Obviously not on the same subject, because I have already given a ruling. I know that the hon. Gentleman will be dextrous enough to devise an alternative point of order on a wholly unrelated subject.

[Kevin Brennan]

Indeed, Mr Speaker. In Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister used the phrase “a bunch of hypocrites” and the word “mug”. Could you make it clear that they are in order? I would like to be able to use “mug” in the House to describe the Deputy Prime Minister, knowing that I would be in order, and also to be free with the use of “a bunch of hypocrites” as often as I please when describing the coalition Government.

[Mr Speaker]

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is, I hope, simple and clear: what is involved, in my judgment, is not a matter of order but of taste, and for the avoidance of doubt I would prefer not to hear either term used in the future by any Member.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is right to mention the Welsh rugby team and the way that it can highlight Wales. When the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom comes in and sits next to her later, for Prime Minister’s questions, will she ask him to put the Welsh flag up over No. 10 Downing street this weekend, as he did with the cross of St George for the England football team during the World cup? [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Hon. Members wish to hear the Secretary of State’s reply to this probing question.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for notice of his point of order. He will understand that this is not a matter for the Chair. All hon. and right hon. Members take responsibility for what they say in this House. However, what he has just said will have been heard on the Treasury Bench, and is of course on the record of the proceedings of the House.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, during the Defence statement, I asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether his officials were, on his instructions, routinely giving out details of his ministerial diary to Adam Werritty. In his reply, the Defence Secretary said:

“that is not what I said. I was perfectly capable, without officials, of telling any of my friends where I would be, if I wanted to meet up with them.”—[Official Report, 10 October 2011; Vol. 533, c. 37.]

Now, the report prepared by Ursula Brennan—I should make it clear that there is no relationship between myself and the permanent secretary at the Ministry of Defence—makes it absolutely clear that

“it has become apparent that the Defence Secretary provided or asked his office to provide some diary details to Adam Werritty”.

The Defence Secretary denied ordering his officials to give out his diary, praying in aid the permanent secretary’s report, which directly contradicts that claim. Is it no longer the case that what Ministers say in this House has to be true?

[Mr Speaker]

There is an obligation on all Members to speak the truth in this House, but my response to the hon. Gentleman is very similar to my response to his right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan), who spoke from the Front Bench a few moments ago, namely—and in constitutional terms this is very important—that these are not matters for the Chair; all Members are responsible for what they say in this House. The hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) is, however, a wily campaigner, and in the course of raising his attempted point of order with me he has registered his views firmly on the record. I think that we will leave it there for today.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I notice that the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) is the lead Member on one of the motions we are debating later, but yesterday a pager message was sent out to Conservative MPs cancelling all leave and requiring them to come and vote against the Back-Bench motion this afternoon. Is there any way that the hon. Gentleman, who is a Conservative Member of Parliament, can be forced by the Conservative Whips to withdraw or vote against his own motion, and what would happen in those circumstances?

[Mr Speaker]

First of all, I do not entertain hypothetical questions. Secondly, that is not a point of order and, thirdly, I say—with an audible sigh of relief—that I am not responsible for the conduct of the Whips.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently appeal to the Minister of State to face the House when giving his replies so that we can all hear them?

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I am sure the Minister has read the bishops’ e-alert which arrived from the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales at 2.18 pm this afternoon, in which the bishops say that they

“have serious reservations over the omission of Religious Education from the English Baccalaureate”

and

“urge the government to reconsider its decision”.

Given the state of rebellion on the Government Benches about this and the uncertainty across the country, will the Minister take this opportunity to confirm that he is not planning another U-turn, this time about RE and the E-bac?

Education Bill

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will have noted that the Secretary of State was not present for the Third Reading of the Education Bill. I wonder whether you can give any advice as to whether, when a Secretary of State does not turn up for the Third Reading of their own Bill, which I think is quite unusual, any information should be given to the House, or possibly as a courtesy to the shadow Secretary of State or Opposition Front Benchers, as to why they are not here. We understand that the Secretary of State, who is apparently now standing somewhere nearby at the Bar of the House, was available to come here. Are there any procedures by which it would be normal for the Secretary of State to give notice that he is not going to participate on Third Reading?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is no. Any Minister can provide a rationale or an explanation for presence or absence if he or she so chooses, but there is no formal procedure for so doing. The question of who appears on behalf of those on the Treasury Bench is purely a matter for them, not a matter for the Chair. The hon. Gentleman has nevertheless registered his point.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

First, let me say that I am sure the whole House will want to wish Graham a happy retirement and many more hours on the golf course.

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can you confirm that even if a matter on which there is to be a statement is market-sensitive, the Government could, on the previous day, reserve time for the statement after questions without revealing the nature of the statement? It would have been perfectly possible for us to have had a statement now, during what might be referred to as prime time, rather than later today. The Government could also have tabled a motion to allow the Opposition day to go beyond 3 o’clock.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman raises what, in the circumstances, is a hypothetical question. However, I can say that, yes, that would have been possible, but in the circumstances we have encountered it was not. I hope that he and the House will understand that there is a balance of considerations in these matters. In the situation we faced this morning, it was felt to be important, including by me, to protect the time for the half-day Opposition day debate in the name of the Democratic Unionist party. It is also important that the House should hear the statement from the Secretary of State, and have the opportunity to question him on it, at the earliest practicable opportunity without doing violence to that minority party entitlement. I do not say that the situation is ideal, but what I do say is that a pragmatic approach has been taken in the circumstances the Leader of the House and I encountered.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you confirm whether it is parliamentary to refer to right hon. or hon. Members as being guilty of “rank hypocrisy”? Obviously, if it is parliamentary, we might like to use it on a daily or even hourly basis to describe the Government’s policies. I gave notice to the Secretary of State for Education that I would raise this point of order. If it is an unparliamentary expression, can you require an apology and a withdrawal?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for notice that he intended to raise it. At the outset, I say to the House that there was an enormous amount of noise in the Chamber when the Secretary of State was responding to a question and I did not hear clearly every word that he said. However, as the House would expect, I have had the record checked, and the words about which the hon. Gentleman complains appear in the draft Official Report at the end of the answer. It is indeed unparliamentary for any Member of the House to suggest that another Member is a hypocrite or has said something hypocritical. The term “rank hypocrisy”, when directed at what another Member has said, is unparliamentary and should be withdrawn. I hope that is clear.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Let me say to the hon. Gentleman, to whom I am grateful for his point of order, that correspondence with the Speaker is private and is not the subject of exchanges on the Floor of the House. What Members might or might not say about their correspondence is a matter for them, but I intend to keep my own counsel. There are procedures to be observed, and observed they must be.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have learned today that the economy shrank in the last quarter of 2010 and that, even taking the inclement weather into account, growth would have flatlined; that is on top of yesterday’s remarks by Sir Richard Lambert of the CBI. Have you received any notification from the Chancellor of the Exchequer of his intention to come to the House to explain what steps he is going to take to deal with this emerging crisis?

[Mr Speaker]

No, and I think I can recognise an attempt to initiate a debate at this distance.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 13th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I think I can say without fear of contradiction that it is a matter that requires clarification. I hope such will soon be provided to the satisfaction of the hon. Gentleman and others.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. When constituents write to me, I consider it a courtesy to write back to them in kind. I would expect the same thing to happen when MPs write to Ministers—for them to write back in kind with a signed reply. Recently, I received correspondence on behalf of the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport from something called the public engagement team—an electronic communication indicating that a unilateral decision had been taken without consultation by the Secretary of State, whereby in future no letters would be sent to Members signed by Ministers. I am not a dinosaur—I engage in electronic media, social media and so on—but do you, Mr Speaker, have any powers in the matter to require Ministers to reply in kind to MPs’ correspondence with a signed response?

Business of the House (Thursday)

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne) seems to be turning into the hon. Member for Taunting. Is there anything that can be done to allow us to listen to the debate, rather than to his ranting?

[Mr Speaker]

I had been watching and listening closely, and I was conscious—I was about to comment on the fact—that a rather animated and protracted exchange seemed to be taking place between the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) and the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Whether some sort of private salon was taking place I do not know, but it must not do so. We must listen to the debate, so no taunting should take place at all. Let us listen to Mr Hilary Benn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I think that I will consider that to be a point of humour, because it certainly was not a point of order.

[Kevin Brennan]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. When I was at university, the ones letting off the fire extinguishers were in the Bullingdon club.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I do not know about fire alarms, but people are certainly letting off steam. They have now done so, and we must return to the important subject of the debate on this relatively narrow motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As the Leader of the House has ignored the moment of interruption in his motion, by setting 5.30 as the time for the end of the debate tomorrow, is there any procedure by which a manuscript amendment could be tabled during the course of this debate, to extend tomorrow’s debate up until the normal moment of interruption, when any debate on a Thursday should end?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that it is open to any Member to table a manuscript amendment. Whether the amendment is selected is a matter for the Chair. The Chair would consider a manuscript amendment if and when it were submitted. That is the situation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a matter of some great contention, and we know—indeed, you will be aware, Mr Speaker—that in the previous Parliament a disturbance during proceedings on the Hunting Bill debate caused the House to be suspended. In the unlikely and absolutely dreadful event of that being repeated tomorrow, would the five hours be protected, or would any suspension of the House eat into that time?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that he is raising a hypothetical question, and my attitude is best encapsulated in the wise words of the late Lord Whitelaw, who famously said that on the whole he preferred to cross bridges only when he came to them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I cannot adjudicate on that matter now, nor give any advance indication to the hon. Lady on how the debate will run. I say only that I am sure that Members will want to be courteous to each other. We are all concerned that right hon. and hon. Members from the Back Benches should have a chance to air their views. That is right and proper, but I shall be here and I attach great importance to these debates in the interests of all Members.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. What was novel about the motion that we have just passed was not that it timetabled business—of course, that does happen—but that it timetabled business to come to an end half an hour before the moment of interruption. I cannot remember another occasion on which that has happened, but hon. Members might tell me that I am wrong. [Interruption.] I am sure that if the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Mr Randall) wants to say something further to my point of order, he will get to his feet in a minute. Will you advise me, Mr Speaker, on the best way to take this matter forward? Is it to write to the Procedure Committee? [Interruption.] I am not wasting time; it is the Government who are wasting time, because they said that they wanted to have that half an hour for voting. Voting should take place after the moment of interruption, and it always has. They have taken half an hour off tomorrow’s debate, and that is a serious matter.

[Mr Speaker]

What I say to the hon. Gentleman is twofold. First, he should not seek to continue the debate. Secondly, he rather anticipated my thoughts. If he feels strongly about this matter, a comprehensive memorandum from him to the Procedure Committee would be a very interesting memorandum to study. It would probably take him some little while to attend to it and I feel sure that that is just what he will want to do.

Rehabilitation and Sentencing

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I remind the Secretary of State that I am always keen to hear his answers? I know that his natural courtesy inclines his head backwards, but I would like him to look at the House.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Instead of giving prisoners the vote, why does the Secretary of State not incorporate the withdrawal of that civic right in a prison sentence? If he does not do that, will people not think that he actually wants to give prisoners the vote?

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 6th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me anticipate what the right hon. Gentleman is likely to go on to say. I note the difference between the commitment that he is seeking and what the Home Secretary said, but as a very experienced Member of the House and former Minister, he knows that I am not responsible for the content of answers. What the right hon. Gentleman is about, of course, is trying to remind the House and his constituents of his dissatisfaction that his point was not answered as he would have wished. I think he has accomplished his objective, and we will leave it there.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can you confirm that it is in order during a Division for hon. Members to walk through both the Aye and the No Lobby if they seek to register an active abstention? For those who are not sure how to vote on Thursday in the tuition fees vote, would that not have the advantage of allowing them to say that they voted both for and against it, depending on their audience?

[Mr Speaker]

Yes.

Business of the House

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 18th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Under pressure, the Prime Minister has got rid of his vanity snapper, but we still need that debate on cronyism and appointments to the civil service. Did the Leader of the House see the letter to The Times on Monday from Sir Robin Mountfield, the former permanent secrecy to the Cabinet Office, in which he said:

“These provisions were intended to meet genuine and exceptional management needs, not to accommodate political and personal friends or associates”?

Finally, he said that

“the…principle of appointment on merit by fair and open competition…should not be allowed to be eroded, whether at these or…senior levels.”

Does the Leader of the House agree with Sir Robin?

[Mr Speaker]

It is not agreement or disagreement that is at the heart of business questions; what is at the heart of business questions is the request for a statement, and we will operate on the basis of that request having been made.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 18th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I sense that the hon. Gentleman has already done so. I further sense that that is something he might want to share with the masses of his constituency and with the media in his area, but I might be wrong.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I have your advice on the courtesies that should be extended to Members when other hon. Members invite large numbers of their constituents to events in the House? I have given notice of this to the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), who organised an event in the House yesterday that large numbers of people from all the Cardiff constituencies attended. It was a non-political meeting, but hon. Members representing constituencies in and around Cardiff were neither notified of it in advance nor invited to it. Is there any guidance that you can issue on the normal courtesies and privileges involved? I am not alleging any wrongdoing—it might have been an oversight—but what are the arrangements, and what is your view, Mr Speaker?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that there is nothing in the Standing Orders on the matter, but this is really a matter of courtesy and, as he knows, I am in favour of unfailing courtesy. I do not think that I can rule beyond that, but if he feels that there has been a breach of that dictum, I dare say that he will want to pursue it with the people whom he thinks are guilty of the breach. He can always keep me notified; I have a sense that he will probably do that anyway.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

As usual at this time on a Wednesday, there are far too many private conversations taking place in the Chamber. It is very unfair on the Member asking the question and the Minister answering it, and it is also rather discourteous to the people of Wales.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

8. If she will discuss with the Leader of the House the convening of a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee to discuss the matter of the effect on Wales of the provisions of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 27th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Individual voter registration is something that the Electoral Commission has always favoured and has passed through this House on the promise that steps would be taken to ensure that it did not impact on the number of people registered to vote. Has he had any discussions with the Commission about what it is going to do to ensure that individual voter registration, which has now been speeded up by the current Government, will not mean that thousands and thousands of extra people are not registered to vote?

[Mr Speaker]

Let me say to the hon. Gentleman and others that there are other questioners. Questions need to be a lot shorter and sharper.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Monday 26th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

What I would say in response to the right hon. Lady is that the timing of Government statements to the House is a matter specifically for the Government. I hope that I have understood the right hon. Lady correctly with reference to the questions that she has tabled, and what I would say is that if she has not received answers—or, at any rate, substantive answers—to questions, I would very much hope that substantive answers will be forthcoming before the House rises for the summer recess. I very much hope that Ministers from the Ministry of Justice have heard—if they have not heard, I hope that they will hear shortly—precisely what I have just said. That approach seems to me to be conducive to the good conduct of business of the House.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During questions the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport made reference, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly), to the political affiliations of the chairman of the BBC Trust and the chairman of Ofcom. Subsequently, in answer to a supplementary question from me asking whether or not he was calling into question their impartiality, he went on to claim that a number of appointments to non-departmental public bodies under the previous Administration had been made in a politically biased way, despite the fact that proper procedures had been put in place for public appointments during the previous Parliament. Given your ruling that when Ministers speak from the Dispatch Box they are speaking on behalf of the Government, can we have a statement from the Government on whether or not they believe that public appointments made under the previous Administration were made for political reasons and were not made through the proper public appointments procedures, which were set up and in place, and on whether they have confidence in those public appointments?

[Mr Speaker]

It is always a pleasure to hear points of order from the hon. Gentleman. Something tells me that at least in part of his point of order—I will be generous and say “in part”—he was seeking to continue an earlier argument. That in itself would not constitute a point of order and might almost risk becoming disorderly. What I would say, which may be of interest to him and to others in the House, is that when reference is made to individuals outside this place, such reference should be made with care, restraint and circumspection. I hope that that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman.

Bills presented

Local Referendums Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Zac Goldsmith presented a Bill to make provision about binding local referendums; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 3 December, and to be printed (Bill 66).

Recall of Elected Representatives

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Zac Goldsmith presented a Bill to permit voters to recall their elected representatives in specified circumstances; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 3 December, and to be printed (Bill 67).

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 7th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

There are a couple of points to make in response to the hon. Gentleman. The first is that the Secretary of State is an extremely busy person and it is not for me to comment on the nature or frequency of telephone conversations that he has. I can say only for myself that if the hon. Gentleman were to telephone me, I would always be delighted to hear from him and would regard it as a matter of some priority to have a telephone conversation with him. Secondly, I think that I have made the overall position very clear and people on the Treasury Bench will have heard it. What I am saying, in short, is that if the Secretary of State has something to say to Members, he should say it here. If he has something to say to me, he could usefully say it here and it would be a jolly good thing if he came to the House to make a statement at a suitable time—that is, at or shortly after 7 o’clock.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During his statement on Monday, in column 35 of Hansard, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson), the Deputy Prime Minister indicated that the reason why he had not consulted the devolved Administrations about the parts of his constitutional proposals that affect the devolved Administrations of the United Kingdom was that it was necessary for him to announce them to this House first. That was repeated today by the Prime Minister at Prime Minister’s Question Time. Will you confirm, Mr Speaker, that it is perfectly in order—on a Government-to-Government basis through the UK civil service, which exists for that purpose—for the Prime Minister or Deputy Prime Minister to discuss proposals affecting the devolved Administrations with Ministers on a ministerial basis prior to making an announcement to this House? In fact, in the case of Northern Ireland, if they did not do that, one could not imagine the consequences.

[Mr Speaker]

I am very sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but although I listened with interest to his point of order the truth of the matter—he might think it a sad truth—is that it is not a matter for the Chair.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This morning we lost an hour and a half of valuable debating time in Westminster Hall on the issue of apprenticeships, when the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), whom I informed that I would raise this point of order, did not turn up at the appointed time. Incidentally, the Minister for apprenticeships, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), was not present at the appointed time either, and the debate fell. To lose one Member might be considered unfortunate; to lose two seems like carelessness.

Is there anything that you can do, Mr Speaker, to reinstate the valuable time for that debate so that hon. Members such as myself who took time to prepare a speech can have the opportunity to deliver it to the House and have it recorded in Hansard? Could you also have a word with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority to see whether it will allow Conservative Members to claim for alarm clocks?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for giving me advance notice of it. I understand that Members are disappointed to have missed the opportunity to debate the national apprenticeship scheme. I have received a letter of profuse apology from the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), which I appreciate and I think the House will appreciate.

The smooth conduct of business requires keeping to set times for the start of debates, and it is important that all Members grasp that at the outset and keep it in the forefront of their minds. It is perhaps an object lesson for all of us early on in the new Parliament. I note the request that the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) made for the matters in question to be aired on another occasion. I cannot commit at this point, but I hope that there will be another chance for those important matters to be debated in the House.

As the hon. Member for Gloucester is in the Chamber, I think we would be pleased to hear from him.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Wednesday 23rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I require no help from the hon. Gentleman. It is not a point of order; it is a matter of taste, and we will have to leave it there.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. In the light of your ruling, could we rename the session that we have just had, “Prime Minister’s Tantrums”? Is it not more accurate to describe the Liberal Democrats, rather than Opposition Back Benchers, as dupes?

[Mr Speaker]

There is nothing disorderly about the remark that the hon. Gentleman has just made, but unfortunately his attempted point of order suffered from the disadvantage of not being a point of order. However, he has made his point very clearly, and it is on the record. I have a hunch that he knew that before he got up to speak.

Building a High-Skilled Economy

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

We cannot allow this to stand, can we? I hope that I wear the weight

“Of learning lightly like a flower”,

in the words of Tennyson. I also hope that that learning might inform the thinking of the House on apprenticeships. Of course some of the new apprenticeships will be adult apprenticeships and some will be for young people, and of course some will be about upskilling and some about reskilling, but to suggest that the people involved will simply be those currently taught under Train to Gain is nonsense. The hon. Gentleman knows what the National Audit Office said about that scheme: 25% dead-weight cost.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say to the Minister that the erudition of his intervention was equalled only by its length? Although it is a joy to listen to his mellifluous tones, I hope that not all such interventions will be of equal length.

[Kevin Brennan]

It is a joy to listen to the Minister, and I am glad that he at last came up with some poetry and quoted Tennyson’s words that one should wear learning lightly. Perhaps I could come back with some Alexander Pope:

“A little learning is a dang’rous thing;

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring”.

The vast number of people who will take up the Minister’s proposals will already be in work, and they will be in the older, not the younger, age bracket. He may prove my prediction wrong in future, but he does not have a rule to ensure that the apprenticeships are for younger workers—under-25s—or one to ensure that apprenticeships are for new starts only. If he wants to talk about dead weight, he should calculate the dead weight of his proposal in respect of the training that would have happened anyway.

The Minister also needs to tell us how he will drive up apprenticeships elsewhere—in the public sector, for example. How will he use procurement to help that? Unless he shows leadership—I say this to him candidly and sincerely—and knocks heads together in the Government, that will not happen. All he will get from his colleagues will be that one-note symphony that we have heard so far from the Government, like the vuvuzelas in the World cup, saying that nothing can be done on public sector apprenticeships because of cuts. That is what he will be told. My advice to him is this: he needs to fight, fight and fight again against Treasury orthodoxy on behalf of apprenticeships if he wants to make an impact as a Minister.

It is clear that the Minister’s enjoyable and occasionally flowery rhetoric—if he will forgive me for saying so—hides a prosaic reality in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The Secretary of State really wants to be in charge of the banks but has been walked all over by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in that ambition and, in an age-old Treasury way, has had his pocket picked over FE, skills, capital and revenue; and the Universities and Science Minister, who really wants to be the Secretary of State and deeply resents the Liberal Democrat succubus who now has his job, has, in his absent-minded, dual-brained, batty, professorial way, carelessly mislaid 10,000 university places since the election. It is no wonder that in the confusion, the Treasury has been able to bamboozle a Department that has two heads and three brains. Now we have proposals for capital and apprenticeships that are not all that they seem.

If we are going to build Britain’s skills for the future, we need strong, united leadership from the Department, not weak, divided leadership hidden by the Minister’s baroque oratory. His words are fine for now, but unless he starts standing up for skills, his flowery rhetoric will wilt under the heat of political reality.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 15th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for airing the concern that he and others might feel on this matter. I think that the House is aware of the special conditions that have obtained in relation to this report and of the arrangements made for advance sight under controlled conditions for it to be read. I certainly think it important—I hope this helps the hon. Gentleman—that all Members should have sufficient time to study the report fully before a debate takes place. Even though the hon. Gentleman is a new Member, he has taken the opportunity to raise this point of order in a very timely way in the presence of senior people who, I feel sure, will have taken note of what he has said.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hesitate and only tentatively raise this point of order with you, but it has previously been the practice in the House that where a statement is made, hon. Members wishing to ask questions about it should be present at the beginning and rising throughout that statement, and preference is then usually given to those who are. Has there been any change to existing practice on that?

[Mr Speaker]

There has been no change, and I would want to say to the hon. Gentleman that I do not want to travel down that route. If I were an uncharitable and ungenerous fellow and of an unusually suspicious frame of mind, none of which things is true, I would think that the hon. Gentleman was challenging the judgment of the Chair as to whom to call.

[Kevin Brennan]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

As I am none of those things, however, and because the hon. Gentleman shakes his head in disavowal, I am happy to accept that that is not so. I look very carefully to see who is trying to contribute, and, as I think the record shows, I try, subject to limitations of time, to accommodate everybody who wishes to do so. It is probably worth saying that this statement ran longer than I would ordinarily allow a statement to run, but I think that colleagues will appreciate that there were very special reasons for doing so today.

Points of Order

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Thursday 10th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think I can offer any advice on that point. What I say to the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg), who is a very experienced Member, is that what he has just put to me is not a point of order, but a point of debate. He has put his views and concerns very clearly on the record and that may be an object lesson to new Members in debating points, although probably not in points of order.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Perhaps you can advise me, even if you could not advise my hon. Friend. In the course of business questions, the Leader of the House made a statement that absolutely no preparation at all had been undertaken by the last Government for a referendum on extending powers to the Welsh Assembly—something that is strenuously denied by those concerned. Is there any way Members can require Ministers to provide evidence for statements made when they are trying to rewrite history?

[Mr Speaker]

Such a strict requirement would create an entirely new precedent in the way in which debate is conducted in the House. As I understand it, the hon. Gentleman is asking me to insist that, in future, any statement by a Minister or another Member should require evidence before it can be made. That, I think, would be an extremely dangerous and risky precedent to set. However, he has put his views on the record and I am sure the House is grateful to him.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Kevin Brennan and John Bercow

Tuesday 25th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for the Prime Minister to continue his practice in opposition of using the word “you” to describe Members on the opposite side of the House?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that it is not in order, but I know that the Prime Minister is not going to do it again anyway.