Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Josh Fenton-Glynn Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 9th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I look forward to the other contributions to the debate. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, terrorist threats are now a way of life, be they lone-wolf attacks, aggression and poisonings by Russia, attacks by terrorist groups from across the world, or Iranian attacks on those who support a free Iran. Such attacks focus our attention on where we are. It is good to see the Minister in his place, and I look forward to his comments. I wish to be constructive in my comments, and I have a few questions to ask. Hopefully, the Minister can give me some reassurances.

In Northern Ireland, terrorist attacks were the norm for some 30-odd years. I declare an interest: I served in the Ulster Defence Regiment for three years, and in the Territorial Army for 11 and a half years. Why is it that when my fellow soldiers in the Ulster Defence Regiment and my part-time colleagues the Territorial Army went to a restaurant or café, they sought out a place where they could watch everything that was happening? They could see who was coming in and who was going out, and they had an escape route, so that they could get out quickly. That was the life that we led. In this debate, we are asking our churches, our charities, our missionary groups and those who run community halls to consider things of which they have no experience. I am not saying that critically; I am saying it observationally, because I want them to be aware.

When the gallant Minister got the call to serve in uniform, he answered it. I put on the record our thanks to him for doing that, which tells us a lot about the Minister and his psyche. I look back at some of the atrocities and I am reminded of the Darkley massacre, in which the Irish National Liberation Army burst into a church and killed a number of people who were attending—innocent people. Had it not been for the bravery of some of the people on the door, more probably would have been killed. I think of Tullyvallen Orange hall, near Newry, where the IRA killed a number of Orangemen, simply because they were Orangemen.

The point I am making is that that was our life in Northern Ireland, and now we are asking our churches, our charities and other groups across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to look at providing better security. We are asking people with no experience to do that—people who have never considered there to be any need to do so—but we are doing it for a purpose.

We all support this legislation. I want to put on the record that I support it, and I understand the reasoning behind it. We were all incredibly concerned about the Manchester atrocity; it is an example of what we have to try to stop.

[Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)]

I completely understand that we are asking people to consider something that they have never experienced or had to consider, but is that not what we do with fire regulations?

[Jim Shannon]

With great respect to the hon. Gentleman, this is not about fire regulations; it is about making sure that nobody dies, which is different. It is much, much more than fire regulations, which require people to check whether an extinguisher is working. This Bill is about making sure that nobody comes in to kill anybody, so it is a different scenario. I respect the hon. Gentleman, but we have to get a bit of focus.

I am reminded of the community hall where the Rev. Robert Bradford was killed. The caretaker was on the door when the IRA came. They shot the caretaker and the reverend, and his plaque is at the back of this Chamber. I am ever mindful of his courage and the stand that he took. These are the things that we deal with. We are not better than anybody else, but these are the things that we have faced down the years.

I want to focus on churches. On Second Reading, I spoke about Northern Ireland’s unfortunate experience of these matters, and about the need for churches and places of worship to have a plan in place. I made it my business to go and talk to my churches and to get their thoughts. They want to be part of the process, so we need to see how we can help them. I note that a few of my questions have been asked by other hon. Members, so I will restrict my remarks to churches’ questions about their roles and responsibilities. I ask my questions constructively.

On new clause 2, which I understand will not be moved tonight, I have spoken to a number of churches and key holders in my constituency, and they have all told me that they include terrorism plans in their annual child protection training, which they undertake at their own cost. Those are massive steps for people who may have faced some of these things in the past, but who suddenly find themselves thrown into the cauldron because of where they are. One church highlighted that it ran a special awareness event after the Southport atrocity in recognition that the church hall, where most of the adults gather, is a different building from the one used for church events.

I just want to understand how the process will work. This hyper-awareness is good as long as it is not driven by fear. I want to focus on that fear. I think it was the hon. Member for Hamble Valley (Paul Holmes) who referred to the fear that some people experience on these issues. In church services and meetings, where there are children and elderly people present, or in community group meetings, we do not normally have to deal with these things, but now we have to, because it is important. The legislation is important. That is why the Minister is bringing it forward, and why the House will support it.

We need to ensure that the larger venues and churches have support, so that there is no fear—just a plan of action. People can focus on the fear and become incredibly worried, or they can focus on a plan of action to ensure that if something happens, they can stop it. That is where I wish to focus. I will give the example of Queen’s hall in Newtownards in my constituency, which can hold about 300 people. The events that I have been to there are nearly all charity events. It holds charity events, church events and fundraising events for missionary organisations, and they all galvanise a lot of people and bring them in. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) referred to the onus being on the organisations. I always try to be constructive, and I ask the Minister constructively what that will mean for how such places function, and how they will focus on looking after the people.

I also ask for clarity on the help that churches can expect to receive on training, to ensure that they are compliant with the standard tier expectations. They are not saying that they will not do what the Bill asks. They will; that is not the issue. I am just thinking about how we can help those churches, charity groups and others to gain the experience that they will clearly need. Will funding be made available to the charitable sector for the provision of training and assistance? Will a dedicated professional be available to churches on this issue? Will they check that churches are compliant and have a fit-for-purpose plan of action? That is my request on behalf of the churches that have spoken to me.

We must remember that churches can be largely self-governing, and the smaller churches outside the mainstream of the Presbyterians, the Anglicans, the Methodists and the Roman Catholics do not have bodies to break this down for them. I am asking on behalf of those smaller churches. I attend a smaller church—the Baptist church—but I am also thinking of the Elim church and the Brethren halls, of which my Strangford constituency has a great many, with large congregations. I make these queries in a constructive fashion, and I know that the Minister will give the answers, not just to me but to everyone in the House.

Men’s Violence against Women and Girls

Josh Fenton-Glynn Excerpts

Friday 29th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Emily Darlington]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I am just about to come on to that point.

The result of this survey showed that young men between 18 and 24 have a significantly poorer understanding of rape and consent than those over the age of 65. How has this happened? Young men are being radicalised in the same way as recognised terrorist groups radicalise people. There is this sense of entitlement, righteousness and belonging to community, but a community whose role models include Andrew Tate, who says that,

“if you put yourself in a position to be raped, you must bear some responsibility”,

and:

“Losers love to talk about feelings.”

Talking about women, he says “grip her by the neck” in a video viewed over 1.6 million times. Eight out of 10 boys between 16 and 17 know about, watch, read or listen to these videos, and almost half of them have a positive view of him.

[Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate, and for the way it has been conducted at the end of quite a long day. I have been a proud champion of the White Ribbon campaign for many years—it is based in my constituency. Key to that campaign is the idea that it starts with men taking responsibility for how they and their friends act. In this place, our job is to legislate. Does my hon. Friend agree that part of that job is ensuring that we get education right?

At the moment, the education system does not do enough to address this, and we can see that in the results. UK Feminista stats show that almost four in 10 girls who go to mixed schools have been sexually harassed while at school. That is not acceptable. Children cannot learn if they are in fear. Human beings should have the right to live without fear. That is what I want to see in this country, in our education system and throughout society.

[Emily Darlington]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, who is a big champion on this issue, not least with White Ribbon UK being in his constituency.

I want to move on to that subject. What do we do to make sure we challenge this? The work that the Government are doing is to challenge this through the law and the courts, but it is up to us to challenge it in our communities. We are role models in our communities. That is why I am proud to have led Milton Keynes to become the first White Ribbon city.

Oral Answers to Questions

Josh Fenton-Glynn Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

There will always need to be proper safeguards on security, and proper security checks on those who come to this country, but the problem with the boat crossings is that they undermine that border security. There are no checks on dangerous boat crossings, which put lives at risk, and on who criminal gangs choose to put into boats. We are clear that we need stronger border security. That is why we are setting up a new border security command, and counter-terror powers in new legislation. We recognise that returns—for example, of failed asylum seekers—have dropped substantially since the last Labour Government were in place. We have to turn that around; we want to increase returns.

[Josh Fenton-Glynn (Calder Valley) (Lab)]

2. What assessment her Department has made of the adequacy of the police response to violence against women and girls.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

3. What steps her Department plans to take to tackle violence against women and girls.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Yvette Cooper)]

For far too long, violence against women and girls has been treated as an inevitability, rather than the national emergency that it is. Our mission is for the whole country to halve violence against women and girls within a decade. That has to start with drastically improving the policing and criminal justice response.

[Josh Fenton-Glynn]

I am proud to support the Government’s mission to halve violence against women and girls. I know from my time as a councillor that the experience of victims is much better if the police empathise with them. Will my right hon. Friend agree to look at work done by Alison Lowe, the Deputy Mayor of West Yorkshire, on connecting survivors with police, to ensure that the police are more empathetic when dealing with these awful crimes?

[Yvette Cooper]

As a West Yorkshire MP, I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the work done by not just the Deputy Mayor of West Yorkshire, but the mayor and the chief constable. They have been looking at ways to improve women’s safety on the streets and speed up charging for domestic abuse. Charge rates for domestic abuse have dropped by about 40% across the country over the last eight years. That has to be turned around, because we need justice on those terrible crimes.