Asbestos in Schools

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that, and again I have to congratulate the National Union of Teachers on its assistance in dealing with this issue. The genuine concern is that we do not scare parents into believing that their children cannot go to school for fear of catching mesothelioma or other asbestos-related diseases, and we have tried to follow that approach through the report the TUC has drawn up. However, we say clearly in the report that action has to be taken. We also recognised that we cannot deal with this overnight and that the process has to be gradual, with gradual investment. That should start with some of the older schools being stripped of asbestos, and we could take things on gradually from there.

The review is somewhat complacent in places. It states that the Health and Safety Executive’s view is that schools overall are low-risk health and safety environments, similar to offices and retail premises. But there is a fundamental difference between offices, retail premises and schools, which is that schools contain children. The fabric of school buildings suffers considerably more disturbance and damage than most offices and retail premises. In addition, children are in the building for long periods of time and they are more vulnerable than adults to exposure to asbestos. However, most parents would not think that 4,000 to 6,000 people dying over a 20-year period as a result of attending school was low risk.

I am also surprised that the Government are unaware of the extent, type and condition of asbestos in schools. They have just completed a two-year survey on the condition of school buildings, which deliberately excluded asbestos. The review simply states:

“Based upon the age of the school estate, we can estimate that a majority of schools in England contain some asbestos, although the exact amount is unknown.”

That is an astonishing statement after a multi-million pound audit. If when the Government first came to office they had simply asked the local authorities, they would have found that the something like 87% of schools contained asbestos.

Although this debate is principally about schools in England, this is a UK-wide problem.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing this matter to the House for consideration. In Northern Ireland, a significant number of school buildings still contain asbestos. There has been a programme to address when asbestos becomes a danger, but the fact is that asbestos that has not been disturbed or damaged is better left alone. The policy in Northern Ireland is that properly managed asbestos should not cause any health problems. Has the hon. Gentleman found that that is the case in some of the schools with which he has been involved? Sometimes the best way to address the asbestos issue is not to do anything until the school comes to the end of its life.

[Jim Sheridan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Experts tell us quite clearly that asbestos is safe if left alone, and I have vast experience of that in my own life. When I worked in the shipyards, asbestos could be easily identified. We were told that if it was left alone, it was comparatively safe. However, in school buildings, where people are banging doors, putting drawing pins in walls, and maintaining pipes, asbestos cannot be left undisturbed. It is important that maintenance staff are trained to identify asbestos and to know how best to treat it. If would be preferable if asbestos could be left alone, but not all schools can do that. Indeed, the banging of doors causes the stuff to circulate in the air.

As I said, asbestos is a UK-wide problem. A recent report in Scotland showed that 79% of schools contained asbestos. That was based on responses from 22 of the 33 councils. Since 2007, the number of schools in Scotland with asbestos in a poor or bad condition has fallen from 39% to 17%. That is because the Scottish Government have for many years collated data on the condition of the school estate and presented it online in a clear, understandable format that allows people to see how the measures that are in place to improve the school stock are succeeding.

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities states:

“there has been significant expenditure imposed on Councils throughout Scotland through the presence of asbestos in education premises (mainly schools).”

I am reliably informed that Wales also has a major and well publicised problem with asbestos in schools.

It is the Government’s responsibility to ensure that children and staff are not harmed simply by attending school. It is good to see that the Government are finally going to ensure that those who manage asbestos are trained to do so and that the guidance to schools will be updated, but unfortunately that just does not go far enough.

What are lacking are concrete proposals and a strategic vision to introduce the long-term strategies needed to eradicate asbestos from our schools. There needs to be a proper assessment across the UK of the level and condition of asbestos in the nation’s schools so that plans can be drawn up to remove the worst of it as it continues to deteriorate. Simply leaving it in place until a school is refurbished will put millions of school kids and other workers at risk.

The Government must also introduce more inspections to assess how well asbestos is being managed and spot where children are being exposed to risk. It is simply not good enough to leave it to chance, especially as a recent trial survey by the Health and Safety Executive led to a number of enforcement notices.

In conclusion, the report should be seen not as the end of the line, but simply as the launching pad for a proper, comprehensive policy aimed at ridding our schools of this killer dust once and for all. Speaking personally, I have seen far too many deaths from asbestos-related diseases such as mesothelioma, and watching someone die from such a disease is horrendous. I remember a former workmate with the disease describe it as feeling like a tree growing inside you, eventually choking you to death. I really do not want to see our children suffering that experience in 10, 20 or 40 years’ time.

Survivors of Child Abuse

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[John Mann]

It has been letting down the hon. Lady’s constituents and mine alike. Three girls were repeatedly raped from age 5 onwards. There is no case to answer, because their statements taken at the time, when they were young kids, do not add up. The Crown Prosecution Service said, “Oh, there is nothing we can do. We will not win in court.” What support is there for them? I will tell you what support there is: me. That is who they come to. I will give them support, but what I need from the state and national and local government is properly resourced mental health services that do not, as they did to my constituent, send people away—she needed to be sedated for three days, having made a statement about the multiple rape and other violence—and say, “Come back in a month’s time.” That happened in Nottinghamshire this year to one of the victims. Mental health services are totally disjointed when it comes to support.

I am dealing with children’s social services, but some of these adults are in their 50s or 60s. They will not be going to children’s social services, so where is the support from adult social services? There is no system in place that gives them that. I have constituents who have been hung out to dry by the police and given no support. They were not even referred to the support agencies, having come and said, “We were raped as children.” What on earth is going on when we have no support systems in place?

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful case on behalf of victims of child abuse. In Northern Ireland in the past year, 50 offenders have been arrested and questioned in relation to sexual abuse. Does he feel that the first thing that survivors of child abuse want to see is the culprits arrested, investigated and referred to the courts for sentencing? Do resources need to be made available for that to happen?

[John Mann]

The survivors want justice, and the only way they will get that is by being believed and by perpetrators being prosecuted. The Crown Prosecution Service cannot cope with the volume. It has hardly any cases compared with the cases that will go to it. For the Crown Prosecution Service in the east midlands, we are talking about a manifold increase just from the cases I am bringing. How on earth do we expect such places as Rotherham to deal with the numbers? The expertise to take the cases forward is there, but the resource is not. What is being said is, “We will put it on the long drift for years and years.” That is what has happened with the police. They are not even getting to some of the people who should be questioned as potential perpetrators, because they do not have the resource to do that.

I am not criticising Government spending; what they spend on this, that and the other is a separate debate. It is important that we all get our heads around what is needed. We are not talking about the Government announcing another £100 million or £200 million here or there; we are talking about a far bigger resource than that. In my constituency, I am personally dealing with 25 victims—25 survivors of child abuse. That is so far. There are loads and loads more out there, just in my constituency.

The Crown Prosecution Service and the police cannot handle the prosecutions, the mental health services cannot handle the support services for the victims and social services cannot handle virtually anything to do with them. They do not have the resource. If we are to get on top of this huge legacy, we need to define what I put to the Minister as a Roll-Royce service. What does that mean? A standard needs to be put in place so that when someone comes forward, there is a benchmark that defines what they are entitled to. It is an entitlement. This man was forced into slavery and went to the police, and the police and the social workers returned him and his sisters to the abusers not once, not twice, not three times, but more. He did the right thing, and he is entitled to a Rolls-Royce service. That can come in different forms. What is his major demand? One-to-one literacy lessons, because he finds it a bit hard to get on, being unable to read and write because he was not in school because he was forced to work in a foundry by some predatory paedophile abuser who was the foster carer over him—and that is what they were. Literacy is the most important thing for him.

There is no system in place that says, “You will get this. You are entitled to this.” What is he meant to do—go to the civil courts, as so many thousands have already done? That is not a sensible approach, given that lawyers will not even share information, and are telling people in Nottinghamshire not to come to me, the media or anyone else. They say, “Stick with us, we’ll get you a little bit of money.” How much is a life worth in Nottinghamshire? Eight grand a settlement. It is not good enough, and it is not going to be good enough in future.

Whether under this Government or the next Government, whoever is in power in the next Parliament, whoever the Minister is, from whichever party, I need to see defined an immediately available Rolls-Royce service. Whatever resource is needed, we will have to find it. This is not about me getting up and having a go at the Government; it is about Parliament taking responsibility. This is about saying that a huge amount of the available resources needs to be given and broken down into different areas.

I have been contacted by constituents and many others from all over the country who have survived abuse. They want prosecutions to proceed. They want the police to be able to investigate. They want mental health and other NHS facilities and services to be available. They want support from adult social services. They need that, and they need it as they come forward.

There is one final thing that they need. The Government have made their decisions about the independent panel and Goddard. We can learn a lot from abroad. They do this stuff better in Scandinavia and New Zealand. We should be stealing all their best practice for how we deal with things. Whoever is the Minister, and whoever sits on the Select Committees and all the rest, should get out there, steal their good ideas, bring them back and implement them here. But survivors need their own forum. They have called for a national institute for people abused in childhood. They need that, because then they can provide some of the support and guidance, and they can contribute to the definition of a Rolls-Royce service.

I cannot be dealing with more people attempting suicide, having come to me because the support services are not there. I do not give a damn which heads are going to roll. If those support services are not there, I will get rid of the people at the top, because it is not good enough for my constituents, who are no different from people anywhere else.

I need from the Government a clear undertaking that the resources and expertise will be there. If someone has survived this trauma and lived with it all their life, they have a right to and an expectation of support when they bravely come forward. That is what we as a society and we as a Parliament are going to have to give them. That is why this debate is not only timely, but critical. We need action within months, not years.

First Aid Techniques: National Curriculum

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to contribute to the debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) for her passionate introduction and for setting the scene.

I doubt whether there is anyone present who has not heard me talking about the beauty, character and innovation to be found in Northern Ireland. We have much to offer the world, and it is a Northern Ireland innovation that has made it possible for us to be having today’s debate. The modern defibrillator was created by a man called Dr Frank Pantridge, who has aptly been called the father of emergency medication. Frank was an Ulster Scot, hailing from just outside my constituency at Hillsborough, within the county that I serve—yet more proof that the best always hails from Ulster. It is always a pleasure to come and say that.

I think most hon. Members will have caught sight of medical dramas on television where a patient goes into V-tach and the doctor shouts for the crash cart and jumps the heart into action. One small box has the ability to completely change a patient’s life and that of the people around them; that is how vital it is. Whenever someone suffers a cardiac arrest, early intervention and resuscitation are essential to improve the outcome, as other Members have said. That is why it is crucial that defibrillators should be available, and that people should be trained to use them. Training need not be terribly intensive, but it must help people who are unsure. There is a way of talking people through the process.

I want to provide a Northern Ireland perspective, because I think the Minister and other hon. Members will be pleased to hear about some of the things that we have done across the water. The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane), who has just left the Chamber, mentioned that 19 Members from around the United Kingdom were in the Chamber. My local council, Ards borough council—soon to be North Down and Ards district council—has informed me that the life of a gentleman who was swimming at the pool was saved, after the call went out and someone came running with a defibrillator and used it appropriately. The outcome would have been very different had the machine not been available, but it was, and it saved his life. Indeed, that has happened on many occasions. Such events are not limited to TV medical dramas. They happen in real life, and defibrillators, used correctly, save lives.

In Northern Ireland, we have a campaign called Defibs4Kids, with the aim of putting defibrillators into schools. At the start, about 30 schools in Northern Ireland had defibrillators, but as of June last year the number had risen to 170, and it is still rising. There is a map online showing the schools that have defibrillators, and my colleague the Health Minister in Northern Ireland is overseeing that initiative. I know that the matter is devolved, but perhaps other Departments may need to be involved to enable the initiative to progress. The next phase of Defibs4Kids concerns the mapping of defibrillators in local and central Government Departments and agencies, to be followed by businesses and community defibrillators, including first responder schemes.

About a month ago in my constituency, a new first responders scheme was launched in the Ards peninsula and Kircubbin. It took nearly three years to get that scheme going, because it was a Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety issue, but it happened through working with the community. The hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch)—I hope I can call her a friend as well—visited my constituency to attend that event. She has seen what the scheme does, the people who were trained, and the enthusiasm and energy that made the project happen. That is good news.

I am informed that each year in Northern Ireland, approximately 1,400 cardiac arrests occur outside a hospital environment. Fewer than 10% of people who suffer an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest survive to be discharged from hospital. Indeed, each year in the UK about 30,000 people have an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. For every minute that passes in cardiac arrest before defibrillation, outside a hospital setting, the chances of survival are reduced by 10%.

The Northern Ireland Chest Heart and Stroke Association has stated that it supports the provision of lifesaving equipment in the community, but it does not itself provide emergency aid training or equipment. However, it encourages sporting organisations to raise funds to buy equipment such as defibrillators, and can suggest suppliers of the equipment and associated training services. Just two weeks ago, Rosemount Rec football club in Greyabbey took delivery of a defibrillator, and members have been trained to use it. It is available for every football match—home and away, wherever they may be. It was good to see how the club did that. The NICHSA also encourages clubs to set aside money to give staff initial and recurring training in using the equipment. It is simple to use, and individuals who have not been trained can still use it, but it is sensible to provide training.

I have been contacted by many community groups in my area that had saved for a defibrillator and needed training. I have had inquiries about defibrillators from churches, and I have even liaised with Asda—I am not trying to promote it above any other supermarket, but there is an Asda at the shopping centre. It has a defibrillator in every one of its locations in Northern Ireland. That is all part of the work that has been done to make defibrillators available.

There was another event the week before last, along with that at Rosemount Rec football club, at Greyabbey Presbyterian church, which had raised money for a defibrillator. The congregation, along with the community association, want to make another first responders defibrillator available in Greyabbey, in the Ards peninsula. Those people are volunteers. Thankfully, defibrillators are becoming more available; the issue now is to see that people are trained in their use. Of course, the best place to start is in school, so we are pursuing that strategy.

It is clear that groups, clubs and organisations take the issue seriously. The question is whether the Department of Health takes it seriously enough. The Minister replying to the debate is in the Department for Education, but in Northern Ireland it is a Department of Health issue. When we hear of young footballers and rugby players dropping dead on the pitch, or active, healthy people having a heart attack at the swimming pool, it brings home what we need to do. Is it really fair to put the onus entirely on a group or organisation to have the equipment and training on hand, or could and should the Government help?

I believe that aid and training can and should be provided, and I await the Minister’s response, bearing in mind that the matter is devolved to Northern Ireland. I fully support what other hon. Members have said today, and the outline strategy is for defibrillators to be available in schools and other community places, and for help to be provided for those who want to be prepared if the unimaginable happens.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) on securing the debate. She has been assiduous in ensuring that the rest of us are held to account on the issue, about which she feels very strongly.

It is surprising that, after the debate in the Chamber on 22 November 2012, the issue remains unresolved and that we find ourselves back here discussing largely the same matters. On that occasion, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), then children’s Minister, was positively effusive in her support for this idea, yet here we are in the dying days of the Parliament and we do not appear to be much further forward. As my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) has said, there is no requirement to teach life-saving skills in our schools. In some schools, children learn about automatic external defibrillators or CPR, but the Government, as far as I am aware, have no settled policy on the issue. The Minister might be able to help us on that point.

In December 2014, the Minister for Schools was almost as effusive as the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk, and perhaps even more so. He became the first Education Minister to back adding first aid to the curriculum when he said that it should be a compulsory part of personal, social, health and economic education, or PSHE, lessons. I understand that the Government’s cardiovascular disease outcomes strategy recognises the need to improve out-of-hospital cardiac arrest survival rates and promotes an increase in the number of people trained in CPR and in the number of public access defibrillators. What steps are the Government taking to increase the number of people with such training, as part of their strategy? Schools seem an obvious place to start if we want to increase the numbers, and teacher training courses are another place where it might make sense to try to increase training. I would be grateful if the Minister shed light on how the strategy is being implemented, because that might go some way to addressing some of the issues raised today.

When the Secretary of State for Education was last asked about the issue in a parliamentary question, the best she could offer was that the Department of Health was

“helping schools to procure defibrillators at a reduced price.”—[Official Report, 2 March 2015; Vol. 593, c. 672.]

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said that there is often difficulty between Departments, and I take that point, but what we are doing in schools requires more than the Secretary of State to tell us that the Department of Health has a policy to help to get some cut-price defibrillators.

[Jim Shannon]

The first responders organisation on the Ards peninsula, where I live and which I represent, has managed to buy half a dozen defibrillators at a reduced price. The organisation has obviously negotiated that price and made defibrillators more financially available.

[Steve McCabe]

Most people would agree with anything that could be done to make the equipment available at reduced cost.

As I understand it, the Department for Education non-statutory guidance encourages schools to consider purchasing a defibrillator as part of their first aid stock, and the guidance also suggests that staff members who are already appointed as first aiders might wish to promote first aid techniques more widely in the school among teachers and pupils. That is the end of my pre-election knockabout, because I recognise that the bulk of the debate has been relatively consensual. I will not pursue the Minister any further.

Like others, I recognise that every year some 150,000 people die in situations in which first aid could have made a difference. According to the British Heart Foundation, more than 30,000 people suffer out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the UK each year. Some hon. Members said that fewer than one in 12 survive, but my researcher told me that the figure is fewer than one in 10—we know that not enough people survive. As the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) reminded us, this is not about statistics; it is about real-life experiences that people may or may not survive. It is important to bear that in mind, and we are clearly behind other countries in teaching CPR to young people.

According to the Red Cross, only about 20% of our secondary school students learn first aid skills in the classroom, and it is estimated that less than 13% of pupils access some sort of CPR training at school. If we ensured that school leavers were capable and confident in performing CPR, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West said, an estimated 5,000 lives could be saved each year.

Arguably, we are behind many of our European counterparts; countries such as France, Denmark and Norway all make life-saving skills such as CPR a mandatory part of their school curriculums. For many years, they have used strategies ranging from self-learning with DVDs and mannequins to structured teaching, which is exactly the model that Members have discussed today.

Further afield, a recent statement by the American Heart Association concluded that CPR training should be required for graduation from secondary school. I was told that 20 states have introduced such a requirement, but I note that two Members have said that the number is 36, so I bow to their superior research. I understand that most US schools use a CPR training kit that trains 10 to 20 students at a time and takes 30 minutes, which is not dissimilar from the approach recommended by the British Heart Foundation and mentioned in the debate by several hon. Members.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) said, international evidence suggests a substantial decrease in deaths associated with cardiac problems in countries where CPR training is mandatory in schools. In Norway, for example, survival rates are 25% better than our own for individual cases of cardiac arrest. To compare the international story to our own, as I have said and others have repeated, only 20% of our students leave school having learned first aid, so we can see the scale of the problem facing us.

As was mentioned earlier, when asked in a recent survey, almost all secondary school students stated that they would want to help a friend or family member needing emergency first aid, but 94% said that they needed further training before they would feel capable of doing so. A further half of secondary school students admitted to feeling nervous and panicking in such situations. The issue is further exacerbated; a British Heart Foundation survey found that barely a third of respondents would know how to perform CPR on a friend or family member. That is worrying when we consider the number of people at risk.

As I understand it—other Members here may be better informed than me—it is likely that CPR training would be confined to the secondary sector, as young primary-aged children frequently lack the physical strength to carry out CPR on adults. In their case, training would probably involve general awareness, maybe about the appropriateness of dialling 999 or putting someone into the recovery position, as the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) said. It seems to me that it would not exactly be a daunting task to teach that to primary school children; the British Heart Foundation claims that its training takes about 30 minutes. The hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) reminded us that the Select Committee on Education recommended in its recent report “Life Lessons” that PHSE should be compulsory in schools.

I will conclude by summarising the Labour position. We are committed to ensuring that life-saving skills are taught in all our schools, and we are happy to talk to schools and teachers about the best way to ensure that that happens. As we heard earlier from the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North, some people think that this should be part of PSHE while others suggest that it should be included in the physical education curriculum. There is some debate. The PSHE Association wants a programme of study that includes emergency life-saving skills.

Schools might also use organisations such as the Red Cross, St John Ambulance, the Royal Life Saving Society or others to provide relevant resources and training. As we have heard in the debate from a variety of Members, several local organisations and campaigns could be utilised to that end. The hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford described the arrangements in her area to supply equipment, which showed what a community effort it can be. The hon. Member for Strangford told an encouraging story about what progress can be made, but he also served to remind us that, at times, Departments can be good at getting in the way. If ever there were a case for joined-up government, it is on issues such as this.

What matters more than anything is that we stop discussing and start doing. Under Labour, life-saving skills, including CPR where age-appropriate, will be taught in all schools.

Careers Advice (14 to 19-Year-Olds)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Graham Stuart]

rose—

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. We have two further speakers wishing to catch my eye, and we have seven minutes, so please do the maths yourselves.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Williams. I will make a few comments in the short time I have. I congratulate the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) on securing the debate. It is good for us all to have an input. As a Northern Ireland Member of Parliament, I am conscious that we need to cater for access to careers advice that teases out options for every young person, so that they are not left feeling at sea about where life is going to take them. Everybody is good at something in life. My wife can provide a list of things that I am not good at around the house, but I am glad to say that when it comes to the issues for students we need to do something for them.

We have a nation of ambitious, driven and generally hopeful youths who have clear careers aspirations. There are two worries. First, there is still a group that is unsure about which path to take and needs guidance. Secondly, the access that we give to careers is not keeping up with the ambitious demands of young people, and, as a result, they are misguided or misled through a lack of information about the relevant qualifications and steps needed for them to succeed in their goals.

With young people today so impressively strong-minded, it is not necessarily true that the ambitions for their career paths were even founded through educational institutions or careers services advice. That is not to say that there are not young people under pressure from others about what they feel they should do, perhaps following the example of friends or expectations of family members. Although it is good to be encouraged and motivated to achieve, access to an individual, driven careers service can help avoid career paths that are not suited to the individual. We need to have the right direction for students to go in, which is the thrust of what has been said so far.

One of the local grammar schools in my area, Regent House, has implemented a career strategy whereby the mock results for exams were handed over to the children all at once in an envelope, and then the children were taken and given careers advice based on their results. That is the way forward. It has shown that there is a better way of doing things and perhaps a better way of encouraging greater study.

I believe that between the ages of 14 and 16 aspirations start to take full form. Access to careers advice should not rely solely on broad advice, but should be specific. A flaw that has been recognised is that young people are advancing down career routes when they are not fully aware of the qualifications needed. Some have no clear vision of where they want to go in employment, resulting often in an exit from the education system because they cannot see what it can do for them.

I am conscious of the time, but I will make this point. Within this particular group, the concern is that there is not enough advice pushing for these individuals to acquire work experience, interview skills and CV-building capabilities. Simply sitting down with someone and talking through their aspirations so that they are aware of the expectations and relevant qualifications needed would help.

For those leaving school and going to further education colleges, the route they see for themselves is often more vocational or based on learning a trade. In the Northern Ireland strategy for apprenticeships, we recognised that, through apprenticeships, we can ensure and enable mobility within a sector and across the wider economy by including a breadth of training beyond the specific needs of a job, through both on and off-the-job training. The South Eastern Regional college in my area gives great advice. The universities in Northern Ireland have been lucky enough to keep student fees low, but at the same time we need to be able to ensure that those who want scholarship programmes are aware of how to source funding.

In conclusion, we cannot let our best, youngest and brightest be hindered in reaching their potential because they did not know how to get there. We must ensure that the best advice is available to the greatest number of children, and this is something that our education system must ensure is available as a right and not as a bonus. That is why this debate is so important.

Bullying on School Buses

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Mr Nick Gibb)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hood. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) on securing this debate. I know that bullying on school transport has been a key concern of hers for many years and that she has raised the issue before, both in the House and at meetings with Ministers, including my predecessor in this role, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Bullying in any form or for any reason is totally unacceptable and should never be tolerated. No child should have to suffer the stress and indignity of being bullied at school or on the way to school. It is tragic beyond belief when bullying results in a child taking his or her own life. I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr Vodden in the past and admire the fact that he has devoted so much time and energy to looking into these matters, with a view to ensuring that no other child or family should have to go through what he and his family have had to suffer.

The response of schools to bullying should not start at the point at which a child is being bullied. Schools that excel at tackling bullying have created an ethos of good behaviour, in which pupils treat one another and school staff with respect because they know that that is the right way to behave. Respect for staff and other pupils, an understanding of the value of education and a clear understanding of how our own actions affect others should permeate the whole ethos of schools and should be reinforced by staff and all pupils.

To ensure that teachers have the powers that they need to maintain discipline and enforce school rules, we introduced a number of reforms in 2011-12. Tackling bullying and ensuring good behaviour in our schools is right at the heart of our education reforms, which are designed to raise academic standards in our schools.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I apologise for not being here in time for the start of the debate; there are many demands on our time. This is an important issue, including in my constituency, and I am sorry that I did not hear the contribution by the right hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole. In Northern Ireland, including in my constituency, we have addressed the issue by working with the police, schools and transport companies, as well as with individual parents. In that way, it has been possible to address bullying on buses going to and from schools. The issues that had to be addressed were clear, but it took a combination of all those bodies to make that happen.

[Mr Gibb]

I am grateful for that intervention. I could not agree more with that approach. The agencies—schools, local authorities and bus companies—have to work together to tackle the problem. We revised the home-to-school travel and transport guidance last July; I will come back to that.

To tackle the specific issue of bullying on school buses, we have to track back and raise standards of behaviour in the whole school system. That has been a key focus of this Government’s approach to education policy. We have given teachers stronger powers to search pupils, removed the requirement to give parents 24 hours’ written notice of after-school detentions and clarified teachers’ powers to use reasonable force. We revised and updated advice to schools on promoting good behaviour and maintaining discipline—that advice includes the Charlie Taylor checklist on the basics of classroom management—and simplified advice on how to prevent and tackle bullying. We introduced anonymity for teachers accused by pupils of criminal offences until such time as they are actually charged with an offence. We changed the system of independent review panels to ensure that a school’s decision to exclude an unruly pupil is not undermined by an appeal process that can force the reinstatement of a permanently excluded pupil against the best interests of the school and its pupils.

In the light of evidence that showed that one in three secondary schools were still not confident in using their powers to discipline pupils, we updated our advice in February last year to make it clear that tough but proportionate sanctions for misbehaviour are permissible. Such sanctions range from verbal reprimands to loss of privileges, writing lines or essays or providing a school-based community service such as picking up litter or weeding the school grounds.

We expect each school to promote appropriate standards of behaviour by pupils on their journey to and from school by rewarding positive behaviour and using sanctions to address poor behaviour, and we have clarified our advice to make it clear that teachers have the power to discipline pupils for misbehaviour outside the school premises to such an extent as is reasonable. That can relate to any bullying incidents that occur anywhere off the school premises, such as on a school bus or public transport, outside the local shops or in a town or village centre.

When bullying outside school is reported to school staff, that should be investigated and acted on. The head teacher should also consider whether it is appropriate in extreme circumstances to notify the police or the antisocial behaviour co-ordinator of their local authority. In all cases of misbehaviour or bullying, the teacher can discipline the pupil on school premises or elsewhere only when that pupil is under the lawful control of the staff member.

We have strengthened Ofsted’s power. We reduced the number of criteria for inspections from 27 to four, and one of those four is behaviour and safety of pupils in the school.

I understand that my right hon. Friend’s constituent, Mr Vodden, has been impressed by the work undertaken by the anti-bullying organisations the Diana Award and Kidscape. They do excellent work to tackle bullying, which is why we are providing funding to them. I have been involved with the awards ceremony of the Diana Award, where I have met many inspiring young people genuinely tackling bullying in our schools up and down the country. We are providing £4 million of funding to several organisations to tackle bullying, and we are considering bids for further projects. Many parents are concerned about cyber-bullying, so we have issued guidance to parents and to teachers on how to identify and tackle it.

Local authorities can play a part. My right hon. Friend touched on this: when they contract to provide school transport, they can instruct companies to include anti-bullying procedures as part of their tenders. The statutory guidance I referred to earlier on home-to-school transport, which was revised in July 2014, requires local authorities to ensure the safety of pupils on school buses. Paragraph 44 talks quite explicitly about the training of bus drivers, which she referred to. It says:

“All local authorities should ensure that all drivers and escorts taking pupils to and from school and related services have undertaken appropriate training, and that this is kept up to date.”

Paragraph 47 says:

“The Department expects each school to promote appropriate standards of behaviour by pupils on their journey to and from school through rewarding positive behaviour and using sanctions to address poor behaviour.”

It cites the Education and Inspections Act 2006, which, it says,

“empowers head teachers to take action to address unacceptable behaviour even when this takes place outside the school premises”.

That guidance, which is extensive, needs to be adhered to, because local authorities have a statutory duty to make suitable travel arrangements for eligible children in their area and to promote safe and sustainable travel to school.

Electoral Registration

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is good to contribute. First of all, right hon. and hon. Members, including the Minister and the shadow Minister, have been very kind in referring to Northern Ireland’s experience. It provided an important example for the rest of the United Kingdom. If I may, I would like to provide a little more of the Northern Ireland perspective.

On electoral registration, our aim should be to have an open, honest, transparent and, more importantly, accessible system so that those who want to vote are able to do so without difficulty. We do not need any more reason to deter or make difficult the process of voting, and there are obvious worries that the plans for individual voter registration will let many slip through the cracks. We also have to protect our democracy from fraud, and individual voter registration is one way of doing that, as many Members have suggested.

Before the Northern Ireland initiative, it was evident that, as the Electoral Commission in Northern Ireland reported, there had been a significant and worrying decline in both the accuracy and completeness of Northern Ireland’s electoral register. On 1 April 2012, post-general election, the register was 78% accurate, with one in five entries relating to people who were no longer resident at the address. An estimated 400,000 people were not registered at the correct address. Understandably, we had an ambition to address that issue.

It is valuable to have discussions in the devolved Administrations and the Northern Ireland Assembly in particular in the hope that through our respective Governments we can learn from each other about what makes for best practice.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the best initiatives in Northern Ireland has been the voter electoral identity card? People can apply for it, and it is free. It has a photograph and other identity marks on it, and it allows people to carry that credit card into the electoral booth to prove who they are and maintain their vote without molestation.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. Yes, that is another example of something that was done in Northern Ireland, and it is important to note that it provides a free opportunity to get voter identification.

[Mark Durkan]

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that one reason the registration effort in schools has been so successful is precisely that the electoral ID card is a strong incentive. It is not necessarily that pupils are overwhelmingly committed to voting for our party!

[Jim Shannon]

I would not necessarily go with that opinion, because when the pupils congregate for the cards and we help them to go and get them, I think we will gain from that. I am ever the optimist, as you know, Mr Speaker, and I am sometimes referred to as a “glass half full” person. I am conscious of the time, so I will continue.

It is important to address fraud. There have been examples in west Belfast in the past where up to half a dozen people were living in blocked up houses. I do not know how they got in there. If one had four legs, it was easy to get in, but not so easy for those with two legs. That is all I can say. It is acknowledged that we are likely to have a higher volume of voters in the general election—the contest to watch—so for that reason we need accessibility along with accurate data.

In 2012, Northern Ireland had an accuracy of 78% in its electoral registers. That clearly showed what we could do. The electorate of Northern Ireland grew by 9.8% between 2007 and 2012, in comparison with only 2.8% for United Kingdom and the rest of the mainland. Big steps were taken; we moved forward very quickly.

It is now a given that we must talk about technology in all strategies for engaging with and reaching the public. The online system is one thing we have introduced and it has been successful, although I think we could do more with it. Over 90% of responders gave positive feedback, so there have been issues that we have been able to deal with.

The system of voter registration in Northern Ireland for those at further education colleges has been good. There needs to be leafleting and marketing in our universities and colleges and our local businesses, and at grass-roots campaigning levels. Visuals and sign-up drives are also very important.

I urge Ministers to bear it in mind that, in the light of the upcoming elections and the fact that the nation’s eyes will be on how we run the votes, we should be ready for scrutiny and accountability.

Young People in Care

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) for introducing the debate and the report. I also thank all those involved in producing it, because it contains many good and helpful points. It has been a pleasure to listen to all the Members who have spoken so far. They have all spoken with passion, interest and a real, earnest endeavour on behalf of young people, and it is good to hear the House united in that.

Ensuring that our young people, particularly those who are vulnerable, have somewhere to call home—somewhere that is important to them—is vital. I have no doubt in my mind that every child is entitled to a hot meal, a warm home and, most importantly, a loving home—that seems natural and fair. In fact, to me it is a basic human right. As the report states, not every child has that, and we need to work extra hard to give those children who, for whatever reason, do not have a permanent home with their parents a home they can call their own. That is why I am pleased to make a contribution here. A number of charities actively help to do just that, including Action for Children, Citizens Advice and Bridging the Gap, to name just a few.

Young people leaving care are among the most vulnerable groups in society, so it is little wonder that there needs to be adequate provision in place, not just for when young people are in care, but to help them when they leave. Each Member who has spoken, particularly the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey), has made that point clearly.

Some of the statistics about young people in care are truly worrying. They are three times more likely to be cautioned or convicted of an offence; they are four times more likely to have a mental health disorder; they are five times less likely to achieve five good GCSEs; they are eight times more likely to be excluded from school and less likely to go to university; and finally, one in five homeless people are care leavers. Those horrifying statistics make us think about those in society whom we have a responsibility to assist.

The fact that one in five care leavers end up living on the streets is undoubtedly a direct result of academic underachievement, criminal records and/or mental health conditions, all of which stem from a disrupted upbringing. That is why we need to do more to create stable home environments as quickly as possible after problems arise. Our main aim is to ensure that young people have a roof over their head. We do not want them to be continually moving around as if they were playing a game of musical chairs or as if they were just a piece of the furniture. We must promote stability, although I do understand that that is not always possible. We must also do our absolute best to work with the charities and other organisations to get young people into care and long-term homes. When the Minister responds to this debate, perhaps he could tell me what discussions he has had with the charities that work at the coalface, as they understand the issues involved.

The options available to young people in care include fostering, adoption, family short breaks and residential care, all of which ensure that young people have some form of accommodation. The greatest issue facing young people is not necessarily while they are in care, but after they leave care. That concern has been expressed in every contribution so far.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way and to the Education Committee for producing this important report. It is more than a decade since I worked with Hammersmith and Fulham council to phase out the use of bed-and-breakfast accommodation for vulnerable 16 and 17-year-olds, including care leavers. Given our special and unique responsibility to these young people who rely on the state to keep them safe, and the fact that councils such as Hammersmith and Fulham showed over a decade ago that it could be done, surely the time has come to outlaw the use of bed-and-breakfast accommodation for these young people. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that such accommodation is entirely unsuitable?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. Earlier, I said that I was surprised that she was not here at the start of the debate, because I know that she has a real, deep interest in this subject. I am pleased to see her here now, and I agree wholeheartedly with what she said, and I am sure that that applies to everyone else in the Chamber. It is always good to exchange ideas.

In Northern Ireland, a public consultation was held in 2012 to decipher the best way forward for young adults living in supported accommodation. Ten key principles were developed and they are now used by charities and organisations in Northern Ireland for those in care and those leaving care. They are dignity and respect, independence, rights, equality and diversity, choice, fulfilment, safeguarding, privacy, confidentiality and partnership. A variety of options are available for those who leave care, and they include supported lodgings and private rented or social housing.

Young people may wish to remain with foster families or return to their birth parents, but the options available to those over 18 who want to move on can be limited. Has the Minister had any discussion with John O’Dowd, the Minister for Education in the Northern Ireland Assembly, about the report we compiled in Northern Ireland? The figures for young people in care working and having adequate academic achievements need to be better. Supported lodgings are an option for young people but, depending on where they live, they may not be available to them. The option that is used the most in Northern Ireland is social housing, but that young person can fall between two stools. No one seems to grasp the problem, and it becomes very frustrating.

Although charities such as Action for Children do fantastic work and try to give young people in care and those who leave care the best opportunities and homes available, we need to do more. We must do all we can to reduce the number of people living on the streets, and to help young people in care to reach their academic potential. That means that they would be in a better position to get jobs and set up homes in the future. We should consider setting up some sort of support system in schools and further education colleges aimed specifically at helping young people in care to get the skills and qualifications that they need for the future.

I strongly believe that family is the cornerstone of society. I am not necessarily talking about birth family. Family means providing care, support and love. It comes in many forms and it is up to us to ensure that young people in care, our most vulnerable young people, get the support and stability they need at home, which will give them the best possible chance to reach their academic potential.

Finally, I say well done to the Education Committee for producing this report, which highlights all the issues. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

Deaf Students (Educational Achievement)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I am very pleased to have been given an opportunity to raise an issue that is of importance not only to my constituents, but to many other families and young people across the country. Deafness is a disability and although that does not mean that children who are deaf are categorised as having learning difficulties, it most definitely means that learning can be difficult. There remains a wide attainment gap between deaf children and their peers. There are a variety of reasons why that is the case, but it need not be that way. It is clear that more could be done across the country to ensure that deaf children receive the support they need to close the gap. It is important to emphasise that while this debate falls under the Department for Education’s brief, it is also clearly a health issue, so unsurprisingly I will touch on health matters in my comments.

Deafness affects more than 45,000 children in the UK, the majority of whom are born to hearing parents with no background in deafness. More than three quarters of them attend mainstream schools with little specialist provision, where they are often the only deaf child in attendance. Most of those deaf children—85%, in fact—do not have a statement of special educational needs, but when they reach working age, just over 50% of them are in employment, compared with 80% of the non-disabled population. We are clearly not assisting them in achieving their full potential.

It is important at this stage to establish who I am talking about when I refer to “deaf children”. When the National Deaf Children’s Society talks about deaf children, it means any child with hearing loss from mild to profound, whether temporary or permanent and whether in one ear or both. Even a mild hearing loss can have a negative impact on deaf children’s achievement. Recent Government figures show that just 43% of deaf children achieve five GCSEs, including English and maths, at grades A* to C, compared with 70% of children with no identified special educational need. It is the Government’s main benchmark for GCSE success, and there is no reason why we should not have the same educational benchmarks for deaf children as for their peers. Clearly more can be done to support these children throughout their school life and to best prepare them for the working world.

I say this as someone with deafness myself. I am, as many in the House are aware, completely deaf in one ear and have been since the age of 16 when I contracted mumps. The damage to my nerve endings meant that nothing could be done to enhance my hearing. It poses problems when there is ambient noise, in a room with poor acoustics and in the Chamber, Mr Deputy Speaker—quite frankly, if you were to speak to me, there is a good chance that I would not hear you unless I was looking at you. I would not be aware that you were talking to me. That happened at one of my early forays at the Dispatch Box. The only way I knew that something was amiss was that I could see the faces of the Members on the Benches opposite, who looked somewhat puzzled that I had not responded to the fact that the Speaker was standing and trying to attract my attention. That can clearly pose problems in a classroom and throughout the education process for many young people, and for teachers who have to consider the physical placement of those students within the class and the eye lines and the background noise during the lesson.

In September I met a young woman called Renée, a lovely and bright 17-year-old girl who is profoundly deaf in both ears and has two cochlear implants. To communicate, Renée uses a combination of speech and British sign language and can lip-read. She told me how hard it could be for her and many of her deaf friends to concentrate and focus on their work in school or college. Especially at the age of 17, when friends are finding their own way in the world, she found it hard to become truly independent like many of her peers, but she has not let any of these obstacles affect her, as they can so many. She sits on the National Deaf Children’s Society’s young people’s advisory board, is a peer buddy at her school, is a member of the National Portrait Gallery youth forum and wants to become an art therapist when she finishes her education. I am sure that she will excel, yet sadly many who experience similar obstacles do not.

Addressing the issue does not simply lie in the classroom. It starts with providing the best possible care and services we can for deaf children. The National Deaf Children’s Society believes that one third of audiology services are failing to provide for deaf children. It has NHS figures that it believes show that those services are failing to see children within Government time frames, failing to use the most up-to-date tests, incorrectly setting up hearing aids, seeing too many children during school hours when they should be learning, and even lacking deaf awareness. The suggestion that the Government are planning to stop assessing the quality of children’s audiology services is therefore very worrying. I realise that this is not a matter for the Minister, but I hope that he will pass my concerns on to his colleagues in the Department of Health. That decision has clearly had a knock-on effect on the educational development of these young people.

Why are audiology services so important? As we know, children learn and socialise through hearing, so it is unsurprising that hearing loss can present considerable challenges to a child’s progress at school and their ability to make friends and develop socially. Good audiology services make a critical contribution to a deaf child’s success in life, as they are responsible for ensuring that a deaf child can use their remaining hearing to the fullest possible extent.

The Government recommend that newborn babies should receive an audiology appointment within four weeks of referral. Older children should be seen within six weeks, and rightly so, as hearing is critical to a child’s development of language and learning, and early diagnosis is vital as it will reduce the risk of delays in language, educational and social development.

The problem is that when asked by NDCS about the length of time it took to get their child an audiology appointment, 44% of parents said that they had to wait five weeks or longer, and 20% said they had to wait for more than eight weeks. At such a young age, that length of time without diagnosis can be seriously detrimental and will certainly put those children behind others of their age when it comes to starting school.

Obviously, effective hearing aids are an integral way of mitigating the effect of deafness, and making sure that they are correctly set up and fit for purpose is essential. Children grow out of the ear moulds for their hearing aids as often as they grow out of their shoes, and any parent will be well aware that that can happen every few months. If a child experiences a delay every time they need an ear mould replaced or if a new one does not fit correctly, they lose out on significant listening and therefore learning time. Sadly, almost 80% of the parents who spoke to NDCS said that they had waited longer than the target time for their ear mould impression appointment. Those are all health issues, but they obviously have an educational impact in the classroom. Almost three quarters of deaf children fail to achieve a good level of development in the early years foundation stage assessment. If deaf children are struggling to attain the same educational outcomes as their non-disabled peers, consider how challenging it must be for deafblind children.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In 2011 a school was built in Belfast specifically to cater for deaf and blind children who needed the level of educational standard it delivered. The school gave those people an academic standard and achievement that prepared them for jobs in future life, but it was done through private finance. Does the hon. Lady agree that the Government could follow that example from Northern Ireland, and that the Education and Health Departments could work with the private sector to look after those who are deaf and blind?

[Alison Seabeck]

The hon. Gentleman has always brought interesting examples and ideas to my previous debates on health-related issues. I am sure the Minister has listened to him. We should seek to learn from any example of good practice, whether it be in the public or the private sector, but whether we would support rolling out the private element more widely is a different issue. That said, if the practice is good and the children are achieving, clearly we should look at it.

Although there are fewer deafblind children than deaf children in the UK, they face a unique set of challenges —of which the hon. Gentleman is clearly aware—when accessing education, and they therefore require specialist support. To be able to get that support, they first need to be identified as deafblind, which is their local authority’s responsibility. Every two years, the charity Sense conducts a survey of local authorities and their identification rates. It estimates that local authorities should be identifying 31 deafblind children per 100,000 of the population. In 2014, they were identifying on average just 14 per 100,000, which is a 7% drop from the figures reported in 2012. The low identification rates are attributed by Sense to poor professional awareness of deafblindness and to inadequate information sharing between agencies. Although this is a crossover issue for health and education, I am concerned that identification of deafblindness is proving to be more difficult and that fewer young people are being identified early enough in the process.

In Plymouth, as in the rest of the country, the number of deaf children has risen. In 2012 there were 171 deaf children in Plymouth and by 2013 there were 175. In the south-west as a whole, 49% of deaf children managed to achieve five GCSEs at grades A* to C in 2011, which is more than the current national average, but way below the average for children without a special educational need. In 2013, however, the attainment levels dropped, with just 40% of deaf children achieving the target of five GCSEs.

Clearly there is an issue. I welcome statements by local authorities that specialist education services are increasing, despite the cuts in the system, and that a review of the specialist educational service for deaf children will go ahead in 2014-15. However, there is a shortfall in specialist teachers nationally and that is having an impact on Plymouth. In England, the national average ratio for visiting teachers of the deaf to children is 1:44. In Plymouth, with just two visiting teachers of the deaf, the ratio is 1:72. I am told that those two specialist teachers are being stretched by unrealistic and unmanageable caseloads. What is being done to recruit, train and, importantly, retain teachers across England with that level of expertise?

The impact on education of being deaf is not only felt at a young age. Many young people continue to experience problems when in higher education. When I met NDCS at the Labour party conference in September, I was told about a young man who relied on note-taking support at university, but when he started his first term he found that no support had been organised, despite the fact that the university had been given plenty of notice of his needs. Unsurprisingly, that made his first couple of months very stressful and unproductive. The issue affects the whole of the education spectrum—from nursery right the way to young people seeking to move from secondary education to university—and it needs to be addressed.

Deaf students will certainly be impacted by the changes to disabled students allowance, in relation to which there has been no mention of non-medical help, such as using British sign language interpreters. I wonder whether the Minister has discussed that issue with his colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. As I have said, young people coming out of mainstream education and seeking to progress to university may find that that journey is not possible because of the new barriers that are being erected. Randstad student and worker support has told me that 27.7% of the students it surveyed said they would not have attended university without DSA. I am sure the Minister is as anxious as I am not to close off any option to pupils who wish to progress their education.

What needs to be done? Obviously, budgets are tight, and everyone is being asked to do more for less. Charities such as the Plymouth Deaf Children’s Society are working with partners, including the Plymouth YMCA, which has provided admin space in its premises and is incredibly supportive. I have some wonderful people working with various organisations, such as something called CHSWG—the Plymouth Children’s Hearing Services Working Group—and the Plymouth Deaf Children’s Society, including its chair, Yvette Beer, who is fabulous. They are doing a lot of good work, but they were very anxious for me to come to the House to raise some of the concerns that they had raised directly with me.

From my remarks, the Minister will understand not only that we risk making the educational pathway of many young people more difficult, but that there are still gaps in the existing provision. I look forward to hearing his comments.

National Minimum Wage

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Dan Jarvis]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and the figures bear out what he has said. I would be interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that point, but I agree that the tiny number of rogue employers who have been prosecuted for paying people less than the national minimum wage is a disgrace. That reflects poorly on the Government’s record.

I believe that the proposal I have just outlined regarding the Low Pay Commission is straightforward and reasonable, and that it is the right thing to do. I would be grateful if the Minister would respond directly to that point.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. The problem is not simply the minimum wage; many workers have had their hours reduced just to stay in employment. Some workers have not had a wage increase in three years. Some people do not even have the minimum wage let alone a living wage. Does he feel as well that the Government need to address the issue of the living wage so that people can survive?

[Dan Jarvis]

That is a helpful and constructive contribution. If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will talk about the living wage later in my speech. It would be useful to hear what plans the Minister has. The hon. Gentleman makes an important point that we currently have record numbers of people in this country who are underemployed. Record numbers of people want to work full time but cannot get full-time work, so they are stuck in part-time employment and struggling to meet their costs. That is a good point, and I look forward to the Minister responding to it.

[Dan Jarvis]

Completely by coincidence, my hon. Friend has made a timely contribution that neatly introduces the point that I was about to make. If we want to win the fight against poverty wages, the remit of the Low Pay Commission must be expanded. It should not be simply a national minimum wage commission that sets the level of wages; I believe that it should lead our national effort to tackle the problem of low pay. We need to give new powers to the Low Pay Commission to investigate the causes and consequences of low pay in different areas of our economy.

We know that some sectors have particular, systemic problems of low wages. More than half of cleaners, 48% of hospitality workers and more than 40% of hairdressers are paid less than £7 an hour. At the same time, other sectors—the banking sector, for instance—could pay a higher minimum wage. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us today whether the Government would consider giving new powers to the Low Pay Commission to bring together task forces to tackle such issues. Those task forces could include all the key stakeholders and recommend a strategy to the Secretary of State on the best way forward.

[Jim Shannon]

To that list of bodies that the hon. Gentleman referred to, would he add the catering industry? Many workers in the catering industry receive a wage that they cannot live on, which is below the minimum.

[Dan Jarvis]

I absolutely would. There are number of different sectors of the economy to which that could be applied.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

We may have a difference of opinion. I agree that there should be very tough consequences for employers who do not get it right. We have ensured that the fines are in place, increased the maximum penalty to £20,000 per worker—that is currently going through Parliament in the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill—and introduced a naming and shaming scheme that is far more comprehensive than the previous scheme, the criteria of which were almost impossible to meet. We now regularly list employers that have not properly paid the national minimum wage, and we name them publicly so that in their local area people can be aware that those companies are not paying the national minimum wage, which affects the reputation of those businesses.

In response to the hon. Gentleman’s plea for more prosecutions, I would say that, in the cases that are named, in most circumstances the underpayment is not necessarily a malicious act by the employer. That does not make it right, and it does not make it okay, but very often someone has put the wrong digits into a computer program so somebody is not been paid the right pence per hour. There may be mistakes on the accommodation offset allowances or mistakes on the apprentice rate. Of course, if we increased the apprentice rate to the lower age rate, we would simplify the system and make it easier for employers to get it right. That is not an excuse, as employers have a responsibility to get it right, but I would not necessarily contend that those circumstances should also result in a criminal prosecution. Our tough penalty regime, increased fines and the reputational consequence of naming and shaming are the right way to address underpayment. We are increasing the resources available to HMRC to address this issue.

[Jim Shannon]

There might be an individual working for a firm who is getting less than the minimum wage. They might be concerned but there is a fear factor in pursuing the issue. That goes back to what the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) said in his intervention. Is that part of the reason why we have a low prosecution rate? People fear losing their job for making a complaint. Would it be better for complaints to be tied to the company, not the individual?

[Jo Swinson]

I hope I can provide a lot of reassurance on those points. The hon. Gentleman is right that there is a fear factor, which is why it is important for people to recognise that they can make complaints in confidence. It will not necessarily be clear which member of staff has made a complaint. The HMRC investigator will not just go along to a company and say, “Can you show me the records for this particular member of staff?” The investigator can ask to see the records for all members of staff. That has two benefits. The first is confidentiality, but secondly, of course, if one member of staff is not being paid the minimum wage properly, it is possible—indeed, likely—that other members of staff are also not being paid properly.

To put the issue in context, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) suggested that the reason why there are not as many prosecutions as he might like is that people are not coming forward. Actually, since HMRC began enforcement back in 1999, more than 229,000 workers have received arrears worth more than £54 million. In the last year alone, £4.6 million in arrears was delivered to 22,600 workers, a significant 17% increase in the number of workers helped compared with 2009-10. The amount of arrears per case is also rising. HMRC is learning how to ensure that it does not just look at one person in the business; now it routinely looks much more widely at lots of workers within the same business. That is important to ensure that enforcement works.

We are the fastest-growing G7 economy at the moment, and that strong growth is reflected in our employment statistics, with more people in employment than ever before. That is good news, but hon. Members have raised issues about the type of employment and whether it is just insecure part-time employment. It is worth recognising that our figures from the Office for National Statistics show that full-time work made up three-quarters of the growth in employment since the election and 85% over the last year. The growth in the labour market is significantly of full-time work, but of course there are issues around the insecurity of work, which the Government are taking steps to address. We understand those issues too.

We will return to this matter, rightly, many times in this House. I pay tribute to the Members present today, who in their different elements have been campaigning on the issue. The hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) is particularly assiduous in the care sector, where HMRC has done a significant investigation and is seeking to follow up. That is an area where HMRC found a lot of non-compliance. We need to stay on the case of industries where there are greater problems, because lack of compliance is much less widespread in other industries.

Voter Registration

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

With that in mind, Mr Williams, I shall be brief—by my calculations, we have four minutes each.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) on securing the debate. I wish to speak about Northern Ireland, which hon. Members have referred to. In last May’s council elections in Northern Ireland, out of 1,243,649 eligible people, only 51.3% voted. We had an issue with spoiled ballot papers and those who were unable to vote in European elections. The figures are extremely disappointing. Much has changed, and my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) referred to the registration in Northern Ireland of some 88%, but even with that, the electoral turnout was only 51.3% at the last election, which is of some concern.

We also have the problems in Northern Ireland of the two electoral systems, with the straight X vote and the single transferable vote. Having two elections with two different votes, sometimes on the one day, can cause confusion, and we have been trying to address that issue.

The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane), who spoke very passionately, referred to fraud. In Northern Ireland, we have had many examples of fraud. There have been blocked-up houses in west Belfast that apparently housed 10 people—well, they must have had four legs and a tail, because otherwise there is no way in the world they would be able physically to get out and vote. Such electoral fraud took place across parts of Northern Ireland and has been addressed. When we go to vote, we have to take photo ID with us, but that is something that we just need to accept in Northern Ireland.

There is the issue of how we interact with people and encourage the voters to be more involved in what takes place, and we can look at the referendum in Scotland and what happens when an issue generates interest. It had a 75% turnout and 90% of people were registered, with some 18% voting through a postal vote. I believe that more can be done with the postal vote system. Its only disadvantage is that people do not have to produce ID to show that they are who they say are, so an element of fraud might come into it.

In her introduction, the hon. Member for Sunderland Central referred to the issue of how we engage with younger people, and that is a key issue. How do we ensure that younger people are involved? How can we encourage that involvement? In Northern Ireland, we have a system under which students in lower sixth—or year 12 as it is here on the mainland—are encouraged to have their photographs taken for electoral cards with their date of birth on, so that when they turn 18, it is all done for them. That is one approach to the problem, although of course the card can easily be lost—in someone’s pocket or purse or whatever—and with that goes people’s wish to be involved in the process. But education is an important element, and Northern Ireland does that through colleges of further education. Those are some of the good things that we would wish to see.

Finally, students who are interested may register to be involved in the party political process, and that is good. They may do their courses at school, and that is good as well, but sometimes they drop out. How do we engage those who drop out? We need to ensure that people grasp how they can change, influence and make things better, and the only way to do that is to vote in elections. Next year, it is Westminster—“elect the person you want to do what you want at Westminster.”