Oral Answers to Questions

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Guy Opperman]

It is true that Windsor is the centre of the universe, and we should all congratulate Prince Harry and Meghan on their marriage at the weekend. It is also true that Windsor, and all parts of the United Kingdom, will benefit from the pensions dashboard. The internet has transformed travel, insurance and other businesses when they have gone online, and we believe that when the pensions industry comes out of the Victorian age and goes online, there will be great progress for everyone.

[Graham P. Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

12. What assessment she has made of the appropriateness of the eligibility criteria for attendance allowance.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Sarah Newton)]

Attendance allowance is available to those aged over 65, and entitlement is based on the ongoing need for frequent personal care and attention, or supervision, to ensure personal safety. The Government believe that the current long-standing qualifying rules for the allowance are working well. It is a popular benefit. Nearly 1.5 million people are currently receiving it, including 2,000 in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency.

[Graham P. Jones]

Before Christmas, I raised with the Prime Minister the case of Mr Walker from Great Harwood, in my constituency. Mr Walker was a fit and able pensioner until, at the age of 69, he was run over by a drunk driver. He is now quadriplegic, paralysed from the neck down. He and his wife are struggling, and their Ford Fiesta is of no use whatsoever. He has been released from hospital, and he is not being given the help that he needs. Why is a previously fit and healthy 69-year-old man not entitled to the disability help that he needs—such as a Motability car—because of his age?

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Gentleman recounts the truly tragic case of his constituent, and of course he will be able to apply for attendance allowance, but that is not the only support available. Clearly he will need support from the NHS and adult social care, where a range of support is available, and attendance allowance can be used on Motability aids as well.

State Pension Age for Women

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Westminster Hall

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) on once again securing a debate on this important matter. He has already stated the reasons why the policy is so unfair: the lack of adequate notice given to the 3.5 million WASPI women and the lack of opportunity to make contingent plans for the future in the face of such injustice. More than 4,000 women are affected in Haslingden and Hyndburn.

[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

Catherine Vernon is one of more than 4,000 constituents in Weaver Vale affected by this issue. The only garden path the WASPI campaign led me up was to election victory and the removal of the Conservative Member for Weaver Vale. Do the maths: the majority of the former MP was 806; I had 4,400 very powerful WASPI women. I want to thank them for their campaign and I hope they continue to shake this place up until they get justice.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. Many people want to raise concerns. This debate has been thrashed alive. I will turn to some of the comments that my constituents have made to me.

Jennifer Smith, aged 63, works as a nurse on night shifts and does not see why she should run around an extremely busy ward while her pension has been moved back. Kath Talbot, also in her 60s, has described the change as a six-year sentence and says it is heartbreaking to watch her plans go up in smoke because she has to use savings to get by. Elaine Walker, aged 62, has worked all her life, but is now disabled. On top of the changes to pensions, the Government have also cut her benefits. Joanie Fraser, aged 62, worries about an uncertain future for her and her friends, who simply cannot cope with further demoralisation after more than 45 years of hard work.

Sylvia Cottam, aged 63, wrote that she is undergoing chemotherapy and worries whether she will receive her pension if she stops work for good. Helen Grace wrote that she has had to take medication because of the stress of this change. She works in early years but said she would not have chosen that career if she had known about the pension equalisation. She and Julie Sanderson both want to emphasise the problems of means testing and the so-called transitional arrangements of 18 months. Helen Brewin says the very least that the Government could do is to look at the effect it is having on people in their 50s. Thousands of women are suffering. Finally—time is short, and I want to allow other people to speak—Wendy Critchley wrote to point out that the 1950s women were brought up in an age when working hard was encouraged. How have we ended up with such injustice?

The Government need to step up now and implement clear transitional arrangements for the women that remedy the situation they face. Their financial situation is insecure and the Government need to recognise that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

Order. The Minister is entitled to give way or not.

[Graham Jones]

On a point of order, Sir Edward. Did the Minister just say that women aged 64 could go on an apprenticeship course? I could not hear because of the noise. Perhaps he could clarify that.

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

The hon. Gentleman is very experienced and knows that that is not for me.

Housing Benefits (18 to 21-year-olds)

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

We put the policy in our manifesto for the 2015 election and included it in the summer Budget 2015. We have been really clear that it is about providing fairness for those who are in work as well as those who are out of work, and ensuring that young people have the same decisions to make about the affordability of their housing.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

There has been a war on young people by this Government for seven years, and this is the most shameful policy they have brought forward affecting the most vulnerable. Not to produce an impact statement is an absolutely disgrace. The Minister talks about getting people back into work, so let us talk about what the Government have done for young people’s wages. An apprentice wage is £3.50 an hour. How on earth can that person get to work if they are denied the assistance they need for housing and they cannot work near their home?

[Caroline Nokes]

As I said earlier in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills), apprentices will be exempt.

Independent Living Fund

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Justin Tomlinson]

That is something that the devolved Governments and individual local authorities will consider. We trust local communities to shape the best services. I served for 10 years as a local councillor, and I remember the frustration caused when Governments did not allow flexibility. Each of the constituencies that we represent is very different. Each has different challenges, opportunities and ways of working with other agencies. We will have to look, over the next few months, to see what will happen.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

The Minister is being generous with his time. I apologise, Mr Howarth, for not catching the beginning of the debate.

My constituent, Paul Taylforth, is in the limbo position of not knowing what will happen next year. I have written exhaustively to Lancashire County Council on the matter, but there has been a lack of clarity from that authority on what its position will be next year. That brings great insecurity, worry and concern to Paul, because the person he looks after needs a lot of care and it is important to him that he has a future.

[Justin Tomlinson]

We all recognise the anxiety and the worry of our constituents. Because the feedback we received demonstrated that, we reiterated what local authorities and the devolved Governments needed to do, reissued the guidance and tightened things up. It is fair to say, however, that of those who have had personal visits to set out their personal plans—and to provide reassurance, because they were going through a big change—97% were satisfied and responded positively.

[Graham Jones]

rose—

[Justin Tomlinson]

I will take one last intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham Jones]

I am very grateful. Lancashire is indecisive at the moment. What advice, regulations or guidance would the Minister give Lancashire to provide clarity to Paul and his family, and to all the other recipients of ILF? The county’s indecision is causing that anxiety.

[Justin Tomlinson]

The best advice I can give is to say that if the hon. Gentleman wants to share that individual experience with me, we can jointly contact the local authority and ask it to take personal measures to investigate the situation.

To conclude the debate, I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. We are discussing an incredibly important issue. I have set out the closure of the ILF in the context of the significant changes in adult social care over the lifetime of the organisation, including the measures in the Care Act 2014 that promote greater independence and increase choice and control for all disabled people. I should like to acknowledge the extensive contribution that the ILF has made to the provision of high-quality independent living support for disabled people. I am happy to report that lessons learned by the ILF over the past 27 years have been captured in its publication “twenty-seven”, which is available to everyone on the gov.uk website.

Finally, I reiterate that I and my counterparts in the Department of Health and DCLG will continue to work together to ensure that former ILF users and all disabled people are given choice and control over how their care and support are provided, to allow them to live full and independent lives.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the effect on recipients of the transfer of the Independent Living Fund to local authorities.

DWP: Performance

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

Some of the aspirations of the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) are indeed shared across the House. The problem is that for all those cheery words, many of the policies that the Government have put in place are not working. That is a fact and that is the purpose of this debate, not necessarily to reprise the entire debate on the Welfare Reform Bill, on the Committee of which the hon. Lady and I both sat. Many of the things that we said at the time were wrong and would not work have come to pass.

On Saturday morning I spoke to a constituent who cares for her daughter who has severe learning disabilities. She said to me, “My daughter is 25. She’s not going to get better. She’s not going to change, so why is she constantly being reassessed for employment and support allowance? What is all that about?”

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

Picking up on the point that my hon. Friend is making, I know a young girl, Nieve Evans, who has cerebral palsy, which of course is an incurable disease. She is four years old and is on the highest rate of DLA. Her parents are forced to fill in forms continually, and those documents are endlessly long. Every time they have to apply for the highest rate of DLA for her, and she will never improve. Is this the type of welfare state we want?

[Sheila Gilmore]

The issue that I want to raise is not just the stress caused to my constituent and her mother, but the extra expense and time involved. In debate after debate, I and others have suggested that one of the simple changes that could be made, which would be humane and would save money, is not to carry out constant reassessment. Even that minor change has not been accepted by Minister after Minister who has been responsible for people with disabilities.

The Minister for disabled people now admits that there is a backlog of 700,000 people awaiting ESA assessments. That comes as no surprise to us, because our constituents have been telling us for the past few months that the delays have been getting longer and longer. All these things—ESA, PIP and universal credit—seem to follow a pattern. First, Ministers deny that there is a problem, arguing that the Opposition, voluntary groups and advice agencies are scaremongering. Eventually an announcement is made that some changes are necessary because the benefit is not quite working out, but that is accompanied by a reassurance that everything will be fine very soon.

In 2011 the Government ignored concerns about how ESA was working out and rolled out the migration from incapacity benefit, despite the Select Committee’s concern about capacity. Simultaneously the Minister told us that Atos was being asked to make savings. I wonder whether some of those savings are in part the cause of the further capacity problems. Last year we heard that there was a slight glitch and Atos was being asked to improve its reporting. Within months, Atos was out of the door, so the problem was much more serious than we were told at that time.

Ministers want to blame anybody but themselves for this situation. Suddenly Atos is the bad guy, after years of being defended whenever Opposition Members dared to criticise it. The current Minister for disabled people has occasionally tried to claim that Atos was allowed to take the original contract knowing that it could not make it viable, so it was therefore the Labour Government’s fault. If that was the case, why did one of his predecessors tell the Select Committee in 2011 that there was room for cost savings? Why did the Government roll it out if they had concerns about the nature of the contract?

More recently, the Minister for disabled people has tried to blame the previous Government for the current backlog of 700,000, suggesting that it was somehow inherited in 2010. If there was any truth in that, why go ahead with the roll-out? Why did his predecessor say in March 2012 that there was a small backlog caused by some improvements that followed the Harrington report, but that it was on track to be cleared by the summer of 2012? He was not aware of any huge backlog inherited from the previous Government; he is just trying to avoid any responsibility for what is happening.

Crucially—this is fundamentally important—we have a system that is not only really hurting many of the people going through it, but is not succeeding, even on the Government’s own terms. The number of people in receipt of either incapacity benefit, as some people still are, or ESA has not fallen by anything like as much as we might expect, given the number who have apparently been found fit for work, who no longer get ESA on a contributory basis and who fall out of ESA altogether. The numbers just do not add up, and that is probably one of the major reasons why the savings are not adding up either.

Why is that important? What is actually happening to people? When we ask the DWP, it says that it does not know because it does not track what is happening to people. I think that many people are being found fit for work but are nowhere near finding work. The Work programme is failing people with disabilities, and sooner or later—in a few months or perhaps a year—they reapply for ESA. The numbers are not falling in the way the Government are trying to claim. That suggests that the system is failing even on its own terms. It is not making the savings, but it is making life very hard for individuals. It is time to look at it all again and quickly make some changes, some of which are quite straightforward, in order to bring savings and improve many people’s experience.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

I did not prepare a speech as I wanted to come into the Chamber and listen to contributions by Members on both sides of the House.

This has been an interesting debate and some of the points made, especially given the drafting of the motion, will make interesting reading. We are all aware in this House that we pass legislation here, but the running of Government is often much more important. We pull the lever and it is important for us to follow it through. Nobody is going to pretend that we live in a state of nirvana and everything is perfect. Constituents have approached me about issues and I have had written responses from Ministers.

The sentiment is perhaps the most important thing. What are we trying to do and what message are we sending out? I will be interested if Labour Members agree with this. The sentiment of having a welfare cap, controlling housing benefit and believing that work always pays is absolutely crucial. I say that, as a Conservative Member, because I have lived it. I have been poor—dirt poor, to give the technical definition. I was born in a two-up, two-down and used to share my bedroom with my sister and, in fact, some of my cousins. According to the technical definition used by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), I was homeless. My wife is one of seven children, and it was exactly the same; they used to have an outside toilet and an old tin bath in Derby.

[Graham Jones]

rose—

[Paul Uppal]

I am not going to give way, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will respect that, because we are pushed for time and other Members want to get in.

For a few years, I was at a state school in south-west Birmingham, where, candidly, some of my teachers thought I could not speak English. Eventually a teacher approached me and said, “You can actually speak English, Paul”, and I said, “I can read it too, sir.” If that teacher had not approached me, I would not be standing here delivering this speech today. The message is absolutely the most important thing. People should be told that they can do it and there is no limit on their aspirations—that just because they come from this background or that background, there should be no limit to how far they can go in society. In our welfare reforms, we are sending out that message very strongly and proudly.

I am a bit of a film buff and I occasionally watch TV. There is a wonderful line in the documentary—I do not know whether anyone saw it—where Stephen Fry went across the United States. He met parents celebrating at football colleges where 60,000 Americans would come out and watch their children play of an evening. He would ask them, “Why are you out when you have to go to work tomorrow?” His response to the situation time and again was, “Only in America,” and he observed that, when people here say, “Only in Britain,” they are often in a queue or it is raining. That is a simple use of words, but it shows the difference, which is the most important thing.

I have listened to all the points that have been made during this debate, but what do Labour Members actually want to achieve? It is often said that Labour was the great party of socialism. Is it the party of the public sector? The motion suggests that it is the party of the focus group and of not doing the right, long-term and difficult thing. It is being populist and looking for the easiest box to tick. I am proud that we are not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. That is the important thing—providing a ladder for social mobility. It is very easy to talk about these things, but very difficult to do them.

The vast majority of the caseload in my constituency of Wolverhampton South West comes from the centre of the city. Constituents approach me time and again. I have lived in the real world and we know that people will play the game, so it is absolutely vital that we change that and have a system that is open to everybody and makes work pay.

Two generations ago, my grandparents would often go for 48 or 72 hours without eating. My father came to this country with less than a few pounds in his pocket, but he came here because he wanted to work. During his first few days here, someone whispered in his ear, “Do you realise you can claim benefits?” It was total anathema to him that he should do that. His idea was to come here to work, better himself and contribute to the system, and that is what we are trying to inspire in everybody in the UK. We want to send out that important message.

I am glad that we are taking those difficult decisions, empowering people and giving them an opportunity. Thank goodness we are doing that, because I do not think it would happen under any other party represented in this Chamber.

Oral Answers to Questions

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 23rd June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, but let me explain why I disagree with her. She would enrol people at, for example, £6,000 a year—that is the policy of the Labour Front-Bench team. At current contribution levels, someone earning £6,000 a year would be putting 8.8p a week into a pension. If they did that for 35 years, they would end up with a pension of £1.93 a week. That does not seem a sensible policy to me.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

21. Does the Minister agree that the Government have stealthily been depriving more low-paid women of pension contributions every year? Is it not time that that was put right?

[Steve Webb]

No, on the contrary, the people we are excluding from auto-enrolment are those for whom we think the default should be not to save in a pension, because they will get a state pension typically of £7,500. If they are earning £6,000 now, should the Government take money out of their pay packet, when they are earning £6,000, to top up a pension of £7,500? That does not make any sense.

Oral Answers to Questions

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Steve Webb)]

My hon. Friend is right to raise this important issue. Over the last few years, we have taken expanded powers to cap charges and to require disclosure along the lines he describes. We will shortly act on our charges consultation and will publish quality standards, which will include requirements to disclose relevant information, including charges.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

T3. Eleven parishes in Oswaldtwistle have come together to open Hyndburn’s four food banks, which often serve people who are in employment. Is the Secretary of State not concerned about these levels of poverty, particularly in constituencies such as mine?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I am. That is why we are doing all that we can to reduce the levels of poverty, and are succeeding. Child poverty, for example, has fallen by more than 300,000 under this Government. [Interruption.] I accept that the hon. Gentleman may well find that there are issues and problems in his constituency, and I am ready and willing to discuss them with him at any stage. The fact is, however, that child poverty rose under the last Government. They spent more than £170 billion on tax credits in an attempt to end the situation, and one of the hon. Gentleman’s own colleagues has said that they would no longer be able to afford them. They were more than 10 times more expensive than anything that they replaced.

Oral Answers to Questions

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

My hon. Friend is correct: it is an intergenerational pension promise, although we hold to the notion that we pay bigger pensions to those who have made more years of contributions. Therefore, we believe that there is an insurance element to the scheme.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of eligibility for the state pension following the rise in contributions to 35 years from 2016.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Steve Webb)]

In the long term around 85% of people will get the full single-tier pension under the Government’s proposals.

[Graham Jones]

Does the Minister accept that as a result of the changes fewer people overall will qualify for the state pension by 2020? Does he agree that that is particularly unfair to people who, being so close to retirement, will not have time to make up the years?

[Steve Webb]

We have put in place special provision for the very people to whom the hon. Gentleman refers. When we value their pension rights at 2016, we will do so under the current rules, where 30 years are needed to qualify, and the new rules, where 35 years are needed, and we will use whichever of the two provides the highest number. The 2016 calculation will take whichever set of rules treats people most favourably and they will build upon that.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Friday 22nd March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I thought the right hon. Gentleman would have avoided this issue because it is like walking into a large hole of his own making. Let me quote something from his right hon. Friend the ex-Prime Minister. This is how much he thought of house building:

“Housing is essentially a private sector activity...I don’t see the need for us to continue with such big renovation programmes”.

He cut spending, and I remind Labour Members that house building under his Government fell to the lowest levels since the 1920s—[Interruption.] No, absolutely not. Housing construction orders are up by 32%, and our plans will outstrip the house building figures of the previous Government.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

No. The reality is that under the previous Government, house building fell to the lowest level since the 1920s.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Duncan Smith]

The reality—the right hon. Gentleman needs to get his head around this—is that those who engage with universal credit, all the way up the scale, will be better off than they would have been going back to work under all the measures in place at the moment.

[Graham Jones]

On the Secretary of State’s list of things that will be beneficial to constituents, does he agree that we probably do not need to include figures on the VAT measures, because everybody in every constituency will suffer from them?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I seem to recall that, under the previous Government, the then Chancellor had to admit that his changes to VAT were a complete disaster and made no difference to anybody. Most companies ended up spending more money trying to make alterations. The reality is that the previous Government should have increased the personal tax allowance threshold to £10,000, but they never did. I would love to hear the Opposition welcome that measure rather than carp about it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

I want to concentrate my comments on local government and, in particular, housing, although I appreciate that Monday is the allocated day for that.

This Government’s housing stimulus fails to recognise that the economy in the regions is not just stalling but in recession, and that rebalancing the economy is about boosting the construction industry in places like east Lancashire. This Budget fails to achieve that. It does nothing to tackle the shocking state of much of the housing stock in constituencies such as mine. It is worth putting it on the record again that there are wards in my constituency with over 70% non-decent homes in the private sector. Cutting VAT on property refurbishments would have been a much better move in these areas, because it would have boosted the construction industry where there is already an over-supply of housing.

The Government’s record on housing so far is a confetti of failed announcements. I think it was said of the previous Housing Minister that if a house had been built for every announcement he made or press statement he released, we would not have a housing crisis. As a result of all these Government announcements, house building has fallen, rents are rising, home ownership is becoming a harder, not an easier, goal for young families to achieve, and homelessness has risen. The new homes bonus announced by the Government in 2010 was supposed to unleash growth and build at least 400,000 additional homes, but it has failed to deliver. Housing starts fell by 11% last year to below 100,000—less than half the number required to meet housing need, which stands at about 230,000.

Next up was the Prime Minister, who claimed that the latest scheme, NewBuy, would assist 100,000 people to buy their own home. To date, however, this Government scheme has helped just 1,500 people to realise their dreams—1.5% of the target. Then we had the Government’s £10 billion guarantee scheme, which has yet to deliver a single penny of support for house building. The Government’s record on house building so far is abysmal.

On Wednesday, we got the latest wheeze—the announcement of the Help to Buy scheme, which is in fact the NewBuy scheme dressed up because that has not been particularly successful. The new scheme has already been met with caution. The Chartered Institute of Housing is concerned about any success simply fuelling another housing bubble: a supply side failure and an over-leveraged mortgage market. The Financial Times described the rebranded scheme, Help to Buy, as the right to default under a headline “Housing plan parallels US home loans system”, and commented that the Chancellor

“has not learnt the lessons of the credit crunch”.

This scheme will encourage people to overstretch their finances and max out their mortgages to take advantage of the offer. In short, read Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac, whose lending precipitated the 2007 financial crash. We have the irony of a Government who have forced banks to tighten their lending criteria now enabling a relaxation of mortgage lending terms, with taxpayers on the hook.

The criticisms come not only from Labour Members and from the industry: I note that in this morning’s press it has come from the Chancellor’s own Benches, with the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) stating:

“Having a system where you are giving mortgages without increasing supply will lead to price inflation. We”—

the Government—

“could have announced something bolder that increased supply”.

Alas, that is not the case. Worse, in the equity loan element of the scheme, the Government have only a second charge against the property. I am deeply concerned about that, because it will leave the taxpayer with all the risk and the mortgage lenders with all the profits. Fathom Consulting says that the plans amount to “sub-prime lending” and:

“Suffice to say that had we been asked to design a policy that would guarantee maximum damage to the UK’s long-term growth prospects and its fragile credit rating, this would be it.”

The overwhelming barrier to the housing market is the spending review’s 60% cut to the budget for affordable housing, which is affecting the state of the economy. The Chancellor has failed to deliver a real plan for growth; all he can offer is more of the same.

Criticism of the Help to Buy scheme has continued in this morning’s press. Nick Pearce of the Institute for Public Policy Research has said that the Government

“continues a strategy based on propping up—indeed inflating—prices rather than getting additional homes built. This suggests that the lessons from the housing bubble that contributed to the financial crisis have not been learnt and that orthodox thinking on housing policy remains entrenched in Whitehall.”

David Orr of the National Housing Federation added:

“the danger is that if we don’t tackle the fact we’re still not building enough homes, we’ll just create another housing bubble that will continue to push house prices up and out of reach of the majority.

Our housing market has long been weakened by the lack of new houses being built, which are forcing up rental and house prices—leaving millions of people struggling to get on the property ladder or pay their rent.”

Duncan Stott of Priced Out said:

“The only thing that will genuinely help first-time buyers is for house prices to fall back to an affordable level. Pumping government debt into the housing market will just push house prices further out of reach.”

He also said:

“Help to Buy is bad enough on its own, but to also open it up to second homebuyers would really rub salt in the wounds of Generation Rent.”

The criticism does not end there. CentreForum says that

“it is difficult to see how today’s demand side measures under the ‘Help to Buy’ scheme will help. These measures could actually increase the cost of housing and may also mean that any significant fall in house prices results in big losses for the taxpayer.”

It has called for more supply-side answers, but the Chancellor’s Budget has failed to come up with any such solutions. CentreForum also states:

“Far better would have been a rejuvenated effort to introduce community land auctions…or a scheme to give housing associations the ability to issue government backed bonds for the construction of new homes”.

Shelter has also called for limits on council borrowing to be lifted in order for more social and council housing to be built.

In a constituency where house building is flat for many reasons—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order.

Under-occupancy Penalty (Nottingham)

Graham P Jones Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

I would be happy to respond to the hon. Lady’s question, although I was trying to keep to the subject of her debate. The higher rate of income tax in April will be 45%. For 13 years under the previous Labour Government the highest rate of income tax was not 45% but 40%. If she thinks that a 45% rate of income tax is immoral, why was a 40% rate acceptable for 13 years under the previous Labour Government? In addition, higher earners will pay a bigger share of tax as a result of a combination of measures. The hon. Lady has chosen to mention one, but if she takes the capital gains tax increases and the cuts in pension tax relief into consideration, she will see that overall we are taking more from higher earners than the previous Government did.

Let me focus on the specific issues that the hon. Lady raised. A number of voices were silent in her remarks. She used the word “fairness” and seemed to think that the suggestion that benefits should, broadly speaking, support a household size that a family needs rather than spare rooms was immoral, but that had been the case for private sector tenants for a long time under Labour party policy. The local housing allowance scheme introduced by the previous Government was, broadly speaking, for benefits to cover the household size needed. Why is it immoral to ask social tenants to pay the cost of a spare room, but not private sector tenants?

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Webb]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I continue to respond to the points raised by the hon. Member for Nottingham South.

Why is it acceptable to restrict private sector tenants on a low income, but okay to allow social tenants to have a spare room?

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Webb]

One figure over which there is no dispute is the number of people on the housing waiting list in Nottingham, which is 12,000. They are desperate for a family home or for family accommodation, whereas 6,000 households have spare bedrooms.

[Graham Jones]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Webb]

No. There is an issue about fairness between social and private tenants and between those who face overcrowding and are desperate for a home and those who have spare rooms, and about fairness for those on the waiting list.

The hon. Member for Nottingham South raised a number of specific issues to which I want to respond. She asked whether people who will find themselves in the private sector will be able to rent if they are on housing benefit. The number of people in the private sector on local housing allowance recently passed the million mark, so more than a million people in the private sector are getting housing benefit. The suggestion that landlords will not rent to people on housing benefit is therefore demonstrably false.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Webb]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I try to respond to the hon. Lady.

It is said that the money will help only a relatively small proportion of people. That is entirely true because it is for exceptional cases. The basic principle is that if people have spare bedrooms, they should either put somebody in them or pay for them, perhaps by earning more if they are able to.

It is important to say that the price we are asking for a spare bedroom is just under £2 a day in Nottingham. That is what we are asking private renters on a low income to contribute anyway.

[Graham Jones]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Webb]

No.

We are asking private renters in Nottingham and elsewhere to pay just under £2 a day for a spare room. Obviously, if somebody is on benefit, that it not easy. However, for those who want to retain their spare room, that is the contribution that we are asking. Many people on a low income who are renting in the private sector pay that money.

There were scare stories about mass evictions and homelessness before the limits came in for the private rented sector, but those things have not happened. Just the sort of alarmist language that the hon. Lady used about mass evictions and the rest of it was used before the caps came in for the private rented sector. In some cases, people have traded down. In other cases, people have made a contribution towards retaining the spare room.

The hon. Lady mentioned the Department for Communities and Local Government and ring-fenced funding for under-occupation. She will know that the strategy of the DCLG has been to let local authorities decide their own priorities and not to have ring-fenced funding.

The hon. Lady mentioned the combination of this measure and other measures. She mentioned the reduction in support for council tax benefit. Nottingham city council has taken the decision to charge some of its working-age benefit recipients a contribution to the council tax. Not all local authorities have done that.