Fishing Industry

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I join the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), and not only on his speech. This is the last fisheries debate for both of us, as we are standing down at the next election. He is way ahead of me in terms of years. We have run the fisheries group for a number of years, but he has had 38 years at the coalface. We have not always agreed, and some of his comments today emphasise some of the differences between us, but he has been a stalwart supporter of the fishing industry and of fishermen, and he should be congratulated on that.

I took part in my very first fisheries debate in 1987, the year I was elected. It is interesting to contrast the debates that we used to have in those days with those that we have now. At the time, the main issues included quota and supplies, but there was a much more local aspect to the debate. The common fisheries policy was part of the debate, and illegal “black” fishing was a major issue until fairly recently. The Minister has a much easier time today than he would have had in those days, because it used to be a Government debate. That is a major change for us. We have to fight to get time for this debate.

When the debate was held in Government time, the Minister opened. I cannot remember many Ministers who got away in less than three quarters of an hour, and many spoke for over an hour, because there were many more fishing communities at that time. Sadly, many communities have lost their fishing industry, but the Minister had to deal with biting questions, an example of which has just been provided by the hon. Member for South East Cornwall, from every part of the country. He or—I am trying to remember whether we have ever had a female Fisheries Minister; I do not think we have—

[Sheryll Murray]

We have not, but we have had female Secretaries of State, including the present Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) and one of her predecessors.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Lady is right, but we have not had a dedicated female Fisheries Minister. I am not sure if that is a job for a woman, although the hon. Lady might reach that—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”] That was not a sexist remark; I know the fishing industry very well.

Things have moved on and today we will be discussing more or less the same things, but in different language. We will discuss the cod recovery plan, the maximum sustainable yield, discards, and of course quotas, scientific advice and the Fisheries Council, which meets later this month. Two issues that we certainly did not discuss in the 1980s was the power struggle between the Commission and the Parliament and the science, particularly the collection of data or failure to collect data. The hon. Lady referred to one example of that.

The structure of the debates in those days was different. As I said, they were introduced by the Minister. Another regular feature which I, for one, miss was the presence of the former Prime Minister, Ted Heath, at almost every debate that I ever attended. It might be thought that a former Prime Minister might have something better to do on a Thursday afternoon, but he was there for virtually all the debates that I was involved in. Of course, he had a reason. We heard something about that from my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby. The accusation that Ted Heath had sold out the fishing industry when he took the UK into the then Common Market was made regularly, often from the Labour Benches—my hon. Friend was one of those who did so—and in the later Thatcher years from his own side. It was fascinating to see him doggedly defend himself and his own reputation, and I have to say that I admired him for the way he did so. He came out of these battles often looking much stronger.

I must also confess to a soft spot for Ted Heath. I remember as a very young MP being in the Lobby when everyone seemed to be voting on the same side, apart from two or three in the other Lobby, and I found myself crushed right up against him. I made the usual kind of comment of a naive newcomer to this place, saying, “In all the years I marched and protested against your Government, I never thought I would be standing side by side with you in the Lobby.” His response was, “Young man, this will happen twice in every Parliament, on pay and hanging.” I do not think many Prime Ministers or former Prime Ministers would say something like that nowadays. It endeared him to me, I have to say.

We have very few opportunities to debate the fishing industry and, because the focus of such a debate at this time is usually the December Council meeting, we do not spend much time considering other issues, such as safety, which I am particularly concerned about. I have raised the matter from time to time over the years along with other Members, but we have never really had a debate when we could focus on it properly. As this is my last contribution to a fisheries debate, and as I have a particular interest in safety in other areas, particularly in the North sea and the oil and gas industry, I would like to say a few words.

The fishing industry has the reputation of being the most dangerous industry in the UK. In 2008, the marine accident investigation branch published an analysis of UK fishing vessel safety between 1992 and 2006. In that period, there were 256 deaths, which is a staggering number in any industry. The report suggested that there were signs of improvement towards the end of that period, but that was also at a time when the number of vessels and those employed were declining rapidly. There were fewer fatalities, but the proportion of deaths, given the number employed in the industry, stayed roughly the same.

I have been going through the records, and since that report was published there have been a further 59 deaths. Last year, there seemed to be a significant improvement when only four deaths were recorded. I have not seen the official figures for 2014, but I have been able to trace at least 10 deaths in the fishing industry this year. They include five deaths on one vessel, the Ocean Way, earlier this year. In addition to the deaths, there have been a significant number of reportable injuries, many of them serious.

The marine accident investigation branch produced a thorough analysis of the situation, and the more one reads, the clearer it becomes that many of the deaths were avoidable. On the causes of death, for example, significant numbers of fishermen have fallen overboard. There is a generational culture in the industry where workers have refused to wear safety jackets, or other safety equipment, such as harnesses, even when they are on offer.

On most larger vessels, there is heavy machinery and gear on board. Many injuries sustained by fishermen are caused by accidents with this equipment, and given the size of some of the equipment, these are serious accidents. Safety could be improved in many other areas. For example, there are often fires on board ship, alcohol is an issue in a number of deaths, and the condition of some vessels is not good, mainly because of age and deterioration. That raises the question of whether surveys adequately identify serious deficiencies. In one case this year, two deaths were caused by carbon monoxide poisoning because of failure properly to maintain and inspect a heater on the vessel.

The leaders of the industry are now well aware of the need to improve safety. For example, I am pleased that the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation has introduced a scheme that offers licence holders in Scotland free personal flotation devices. With the jackets, there is also an opportunity for a free instruction session. The evidence is that more fishermen will take the opportunity to have safety jackets, and that is an important step in improving the industry, but the condition of some vessels and proper attention to risk assessment and mitigation remains an issue.

Finally, I want to thank the industry organisations that I have been involved with over the years, particularly the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation—Bob Allan, Hamish Morrison and Bertie Armstrong were all chief executives during my time in Parliament—and the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, where Barry Dees does sterling work for the English and Welsh side of the industry. Barry has excellent credentials, having been educated in Aberdeen, so I am particularly grateful to him. In recent years fish processing has taken over from catching in my constituency—very few of our registered vessels fish out of Aberdeen these days—so the processing industry has been important for me. The Aberdeen Fish Curers and Merchants Association, the industry body for the processing side, was run for many years by Robert Milne, although he has now retired and the organisation exists in a different form. I thank them all for their sterling work, particularly those who are in post now, because they have had to make that generational change, which I am sure will be discussed more later. They are key to the changes that the industry needs to make.

Fishing Industry

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the fishing industry.

I welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), the new fisheries Minister, to his first annual fisheries debate. There was a time when these debates were fairly rowdy affairs, but I think he will find that it is a bit more sedate now. I suppose that is a reflection of the decline of the industry.

However, fishing is still extremely important. The industry is responsible for about 1% of GDP. There are about 6,500 vessels in the fishing fleet throughout the UK. It still employs 12,500 fishermen, nearly 7,000 in England and Wales, 5,000 in Scotland, and 700 in Northern Ireland. It is clearly an industry that benefits the country in a range of ways, not just economically—for example, the health properties of fish are well known. It is important that we keep a vibrant and viable fishing industry.

Of the top 10 ports for landings in the UK, three are in England and seven are in Scotland. That shows the strength of the Scottish fleet. Peterhead, which on last year’s figures landed over 110,000 tonnes of fish, is way ahead of every other port. Given the volume of fish landed in Peterhead, it is no surprise that the Grampian region, where my constituency is, dominates the processing industry, along with Humberside. My own city of Aberdeen was once the No. 1 port, but that was many years ago, and most of the harbour where the fishing boats used to deliver fish is now given over to the oil and gas industry. That is a very significant change.

I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for allowing time for this debate. It was once provided in Government time, but for a number of years now the Backbench Business Committee has been the route for us to secure it. It has been traditional to commemorate those who were killed in the industry in the performance of their work. The latest figures I have are for 2012 and they show an improvement. Six deaths and 44 reportable injuries are slightly below the norm for the industry, but that is still a serious number of accidents. I know that efforts are being made, supported by Government, to improve the safety record in the North sea, but it is still a major problem.

I want to focus on two issues that are of major concern to the industry. The first is the serious consequences of the impasse between us, the European Union and Iceland with regard to the way in which Iceland and, to a lesser extent, the Faroes have been exploiting the mackerel and pelagic fish in their area. The Minister will by now be well aware of the processes that take place during the fishing year: surveys are conducted and data collected and analysed, and the results are passed on to scientists, who give us advice on the health of stocks and what tonnages may be fished. The European Commission then presents us with a policy statement of intention and approach, and we go through a few more stages before conducting negotiations with Norway about the common species we share. The Administrations of Iceland and the Faroes are also involved in that.

Those negotiations with Norway have not taken place this year, so it would be helpful if the Minister could give an indication of when they are likely to be held. The industry’s view is that there will be no opportunity for the Commission to discuss the quotas and decide on the total allowable catches until the bilateral discussions with Norway and other countries have taken place.

The likeliest estimate, according to the reports I have read, is that that will happen towards the end of January. That means that our fishing fleet is expected to cope and survive through the difficulties they face for a whole month of the fishing year without knowing what their TACs are for the year. It is important to know exactly when discussions will be held with Norway in particular, and when the TACs will be fixed, so that there can be some certainty. Many boats require refurbishment and maintenance and some fleets even need to acquire new boats, so those figures are crucial for them to be able to get the necessary loans and help from the banks.

This is a major problem for those based onshore. Aberdeen cannot be said to have a fleet anymore—it is virtually non-existent—but it is still a big centre for processing and our processors depend on the stocks that are brought ashore. Given that the fish are among the most popular in sales terms—including cod, haddock, North sea herring, North sea mackerel, whiting, plaice and saithe—a chain of problems and responsibilities needs to be taken into consideration.

The other major issue I want to focus on is reform of the common fisheries policy. Over the past few years, as this process wound its way slowly through all the stages it needed to go through, there was real optimism that progress would be made towards a new type of fishing and a new management and regulation regime in the North sea in particular and right across the waters around the UK and beyond. The industry is, however, becoming more and more aware of the very difficult relationship that now exists between the European Commission and the European Parliament. It is absolutely right to have an element of democracy and to ensure that the Parliament is aware of the issues and is involved. I am not privy to the detail of that relationship, but its consequences have been reported to me by fishing organisations and fishermen, and there are concerns about some of the most important parts of the policy reforms.

The first concern is about regionalisation, on which there seems to be a major impasse. I have had a report from the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations on its serious concerns. It states:

“How cooperation between member states at regional-seas level and close cooperation of regional advisory councils in the formulation of fisheries policy will work in practice are open questions...And the clock is ticking on the deadlines set by the European institutions.”

Will the Minister update us on that?

Another concern relates to landing obligations. Everyone is in favour of a policy to reduce or extinguish discards, but the practicalities of getting it into operation show that real problems need to be addressed.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned discards. I know of a boat on the west coast of Scotland that in September and October sadly dumped about 400 boxes of spurdog, because there was no quota to land that species. I asked the previous Minister, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), what exactly this part of the discards policy means for that particular species, and the answer was to return them to the sea, even though they were dead. Should there not be some sort of quota allocation for by-catch spurdog, because dumping it back into the sea puts pressure on other shark fisheries worldwide? The system is perverse. Some fish are dead already, but that causes other fish to be fished in other places.

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. All of us are ashamed of the level of discards, but at the end of the day, that has been part—

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Doran]

Of course.

[Neil Parish]

Mr Deputy Speaker is frowning at me, but I will try to be brief. Does not the hon. Gentleman think that over the years the problem of discards has been seen as far too difficult to deal with, but that we must now get stuck into finding a method of ensuring that we can land what is caught? I do not agree with him when he says, “Oh well, this, that or the other”; in the end, we have got to do it.

[Mr Doran]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman entirely. I had not quite finished my sentence, but we are all opposed to discards: it is criminal to throw good fish back into the sea. We have a major problem in this country in that the majority of our fisheries are mixed ones, but the European Commission operates on the basis of species and does not take account of mixed fisheries. We have not resolved that problem, but it needs to be worked on, so he is absolutely right.

To return to the issues that should be considered, the NFFO states that, in what is apparently now being formulated, there is a potential problem for

“choke stocks (where the exhaustion of the quota for a minor species prevents vessels from catching their main economic species).”

There is also the potential

“to put into reverse the progress that has been made over the last decade in reducing fishing mortality and achieving high levels of compliance”,

which is a serious issue. Other problems involve:

“Treatment of species with high survival rates”;

and, finally:

“Whether Norway will sanction quota flexibility for North Sea…stocks.”

I will be interested to hear from the Minister about that.

I do not want to sound totally negative, because it is important that we are not, but there are serious concerns. We have always been concerned about EU bureaucracy, but it seems to have reached a different level in relation to the fishing industry because of the involvement of the European Parliament. The prospect of a rejuvenated fishing industry under a sensible new system of regional management that operates properly, in which the TACs are determined at a relatively local level and which takes account of discards and all the rest of it, is being much delayed. It is important that the Minister responds to the points that I have raised, but also that we hear what approach he will take on these issues at the December Council.

Most of the communications that I have received from the fishing industry in my 20-odd years of life as a Member of Parliament representing a fishing city have been pretty depressing. That is part of the strategy that is adopted by the industry. However, in my recent discussions with Barrie Deas of the NFFO, he was good enough to supply some good news stories and I think it is worth reporting those. The NFFO states that

“the general trend in fishing mortality (fishing pressure) right across the North East Atlantic (including the North Sea and Baltic) since the year 2000 has been downwards. In fact a reduction of about 50% across all the main species groups has been observed by ICES.”

It is important to recognise that much of that is to do with the change in culture among the fishermen in the fleet. I am delighted that, under the guidance of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, the Scottish fleet has been in the vanguard of that.

Barrie Deas gave me a few examples of good news stories. The biomass for North sea plaice is

“above anything seen in the historic record.”

Western and North sea hake

“has seen a dramatic resurgence, is seen now in areas where it has not been abundant and justifies a 50% increase in the TAC.”

The Minister can take that information with him. There are similar good news stories about other species of fish.

There is good news on the fisheries science partnership. For years, it has been obvious that there is a big gulf between the fishermen and the scientists who present the evidence to the European Commission that determines the likely outcome for TACs each year. The fact that there is a serious partnership that is supported by Government and by various EU institutions, and that projects are arising from that, is certainly very good news.

I will finish on that point. I simply say to the Minister that this is an important debate for those of us who still have a fishing industry in our communities and it is an important debate for the country. There are many issues in which we might want some involvement during the year, but this is the main debate in which we have an opportunity to focus on the industry. Members of the all-party parliamentary fisheries group had very good relations with his predecessor and were sorry to see him go. If the Minister can keep up to his standards, we will all be grateful.

EU Fisheries Negotiations

Frank Doran Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I thank my hon. Friend for her remarks. Yes, I can confirm that cod is an important stock for the inshore fleet as well as for others. It is welcome that cod stocks are increasing. That is in so small part thanks to the work being done by fishermen in all sectors to improve the biomass of this important staple of our diet. It is not entirely good news—there are still cuts to cod quotas in some areas—but the general trend is increasing. We need to reflect on the fact that 1 million tonnes of cod will be caught off Norway and in the North sea this year. This stock is improving dramatically not very far from us. It is not improving quickly enough, but we are working hard to achieve that.

I agree with my hon. Friend that sustainability is important, not just because we mind about the health of our seas, but because we mind about the future of our fishing industry. We want an increased biomass and it is through increased stocks that more businesses will progress and become more profitable.

I absolutely concur with my hon. Friend’s comments on regional management. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been banging this drum for a long time. We want fully documented fisheries where the technical measures that are currently decided by a top-down centralised system are decided locally on an ecosystem basis, so that in an area such as the North sea it is the countries that actually fish in it that will decide how it is managed.

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I join in congratulating the Minister on this very good result that is obviously welcomed by the fishing industry. He is well aware of the trials that are taking place in Scotland to improve discards. The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation is anxious that they progress as quickly as possible and feel that it would be extremely beneficial to have an extra quota of fish specifically to pursue the research. Is the Minister prepared to argue for that in next week’s Norway discussions?

[Richard Benyon]

What we managed to achieve was to get the argument understood. We are not talking about more mortality; we are talking about landing more fish that would otherwise be discarded. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that fishermen from his part of the world have led the way on a whole range of measures. Some have been technical and have involved their gear, while others have involved real-time closures, but the really important scheme is the catch quota scheme, which has involved fully documented fisheries. The scheme has been praised from the commissioner downwards as the way forward. We want it to become the norm and, in many respects, for it to be much extended, because under that scheme practically no cod will be discarded from vessels this year. That is an incredible achievement by those fishermen and the people who have worked with them on such schemes, and we want to see more of that.

Fisheries

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to hold this debate under your chairmanship, Ms Clark. The fishing industry remains one of the most important industries in this country. For the past two years, when I have had the opportunity to debate this subject, I have usually opened with a comment about the fact that we are not in the main Chamber, which was where we normally used to hold the annual fisheries debate. However, this is the biggest turnout for a fisheries debate that I can remember for a long time, so maybe there is something to Westminster Hall.

The industry is important. According to Seafish’s industry figures for 2011, purchases of seafood totalled £5.6 billion and seafood products £2.9 billion. There were 644 registered vessels, 60% of them under 10 metres, and 12,400 fishermen across the country. It is a substantial industry.

At this time of year, we normally talk about the year gone by and the prospects for the European Fisheries Council. I hope that the Minister will bring us up to date about where we are on the various issues. I will cover a number of them. The Fisheries Council is key to the industry and its prospects for the next year. We had hoped that by this stage the Fisheries Council would be the last of its kind, because the common fisheries policy reforms would be in place, but it looks as though the reforms will be delayed.

In the discussions that I and others have had with industry bodies, the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations have both made it clear to us that they are pleased that stocks seem to be improving, which should lead to improved quotas. There is one major area of concern: the cod quota. The cod recovery plan, based on advice from the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, requires a 20% reduction in the total allowable catch. Cod stocks have improved significantly, and the application of a 20% cut could be damaging, in the industry’s view. The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation and the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations believe strongly that that reduction should not be applied, partly because the most likely outcome, given that we use mixed-species fishing, is that there will be substantially more discards. Dealing with one problem will lead to another problem. I am interested to hear the Minister’s view.

The other issue concerning both bodies is the process. There have always been difficulties with European bureaucracy, but just yesterday the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation made a public statement about what it described as a

“power struggle between the Council of European Fisheries Ministers, the European Commission and the European Parliament”.

It suggests that the struggle for control is creating

“a logjam in…effective decision-making”

as the players dispute

“who has the ultimate power to decide upon fishing opportunity, in particular relating to effort or days-at-sea.”

We all know that the annual Fisheries Council discussions and its processes are problematic enough in a normal year without such games. If the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation’s complaint is accurate, it adds more strength to the argument that those decisions should be devolved and taken away from the Fisheries Council. Does the Minister share the view of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation? If so, what impact, if any, is it likely to have on the Fisheries Council decisions on 20 December? I would also like to hear his views on the industry position and the prospects for a favourable outcome if the improvement in stocks is shown.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. He makes the point that we must get away from central management of the fisheries. It is crucial that regional management is finally delivered so that those affected by decisions have a say in those decisions and a collective say for the fishing grounds affected.

[Mr Doran]

I think that that is what everyone wants, and we hope that it is the direction in which the council is travelling, but an awful lot of discussions and debates need to be had in Europe before that is finally agreed.

Another major area of concern, not related directly to the Fisheries Council, is mackerel fishing by Iceland and the Faroes. Four years of negotiations by the EU and Norway have made very little headway. According to the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, despite Iceland’s claim to be operating a sustainable fishery, the country’s yearly mackerel catch has increased from 363 tonnes in 2005 to 145,000 tonnes recently. That is an enormous leap. Apparently, Iceland’s claim is a 15% share of the overall north-east mackerel catch, but for the past three years, it has taken an allocation of about 24%. There is also some concern about positions taken by Iceland in particular in its relations with some UK fish processors. Colleagues with more direct involvement in that issue may discuss it, but can the Minister bring us up to date on negotiations with Iceland and the Faroes?

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

I recently had the pleasure of speaking to some Icelanders at a conference. It is clear that their fear that their seas may be plundered like ours through the common fisheries policy is a major reason why they resist joining the European Union.

[Mr Doran]

I hear what my hon. Friend is saying, but in the meantime, enormous damage is being done to fish stocks, which is our major concern.

Beyond the European issues, I have one or two questions to ask the Minister.

[Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con)]

I apologise, Ms Clark, but I have to chair a Bill Committee at 2 o’clock, so rather than make a speech, I can only intervene. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that fishermen in Leigh-on-Sea believe that the Marine Management Organisation has behaved absolutely disgracefully in not allowing vessels under 10 metres to catch a reasonable amount of fish?

[Mr Doran]

I was not directly aware of that, but I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. I am sure that others will want to expand on it.

My first question to the Minister is this. In previous debates, he has mentioned that he proposes to publish a list of quota holders. We have been waiting for that list for some time. I would be interested and pleased to get an update on progress from him. In particular, what are the reasons for the delay?

Another important issue is health and safety in the fishing industry. Usually in these debates, we remember those who have lost their lives in the industry, which I am sad to say is still the least safe industry in the country in which to work. I have some figures from the Library, which I will mention later.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that remarks made last Friday during the passage of my private Member’s Bill—some Members said that it was not necessary to carry a VHF radio on a small boat—were not particularly responsible? The minimum safety aid that anybody can carry at sea is a VHF radio, if not a personal emergency position-indicating radio beacon.

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Lady has direct experience of what I am discussing and is an expert in the field. I am happy to have been a member of the Committee that debated her Bill. She has made an extremely important point.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Like the hon. Member for Southend West (Mr Amess), I need to leave shortly; I need to be in the main Chamber shortly for the second debate. On health and safety, we all recognise how dangerous a job it is out there on the open seas, but exploitation is occurring as well. I draw to the attention of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) and other hon. Members the police operation in my area yesterday, which stretched into west Cumbria and up into the Aberdeen and Peterhead area. It looked like that was a result of illegal immigrants, and potentially even people trafficking. The police said yesterday in their second statement:

“Our primary objectives are to ensure the human rights of these workers are being respected and to gather evidence against those who may have been involved in their alleged exploitation.”

I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that such activity does nothing for the good name of the fishing industry.

[Mr Doran]

I agree with my hon. Friend entirely. He was good enough to tell me about that issue yesterday and I will refer to it at length later in my speech, but I thank him for that contribution.

Returning to the problem of safety in the North sea and the UK fishing industry, I have the most recent stats from the marine accident investigation branch for 2011, which show that there were 58 major injuries or fatalities in the industry, and eight of those were fatalities, so the rate is 7.5 per 1,000 people employed. It is more than twice the number of the next most dangerous industry, water and waste management, which has an accident rate of 3.3 per 1,000, and it is three and half times as many as the construction industry, which is often quoted as the most dangerous industry, with an accident rate of 2.2 per 1,000 people employed. All those figures are based on the Office for National Statistics business register and employment survey. According to the MAIB, the number of marine vessels lost was 24, which was a significant increase on the previous two years—in 2009, 15 were lost, while 14 were lost in 2010. Those are shocking figures.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the points that he is making. Does he agree that it is very important for Ministers in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to talk to Ministers in the Department for Transport, particularly in circumstances where the Maritime and Coastguard Agency is planning to close fishing vessel survey offices—for example, in Newlyn in my constituency —without consulting the fishing industry? It is important that there is consultation, as the industry wants to work with the regulators to ensure that safety in the industry is improved.

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good and valuable point. There needs to be much more co-ordination between Ministers, and I will come to that point later.

[Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)]

While the hon. Gentleman is on that issue, we should also look at the reorganisation of search and rescue helicopters. Fishermen in the North sea are extremely concerned that RAF Boulmer will no longer be a base under the current proposals, and they do not feel that they have been consulted about that either.

[Mr Doran]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. In my constituency we have not only the fishing industry but the oil and gas industry, and the search and rescue helicopters were a key part of the safety programme. People are very concerned about what will replace them.

I return to the point made earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown) about migrant workers. I raised the issue of migrant workers in the industry in the 2008 fisheries debate—I have probably been doing these debates for too long. [Interruption.] Was that a cheer or a boo? I am not sure. At the time, it seemed that the problem was limited to Northern Ireland and Scotland, and there were some shocking examples of how migrant labourers, mainly from south-east Asia, were being treated, particularly what they were being paid, the hours that they were working and the failure to provide adequate accommodation.

Matters came to a head when three south-east Asian fishermen died in a fire on a fishing boat in Fraserburgh. I received information from the International Transport Workers’ Federation that included the terms and conditions under which those individuals were employed, and I passed it on to the relevant authorities. Having raised that issue in the 2008 debate, I am pleased that action was taken by the then Minister at DEFRA, as well as by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in relation to the application of the minimum wage and the Home Office in relation to visa requirements. It took a co-ordinated approach, and at that time, it looked as though the problems had been resolved.

However, I noticed that on 28 November this year, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile)—I do not think he is here today—and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is present, raised similar problems in their constituencies with the Minister for Immigration during a debate in this Chamber. Just yesterday, as my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway said, Dumfries and Galloway police led what they described as a multi-agency operation as part of an ongoing investigation into allegations of labour exploitation in the fishing industry. Over 150 personnel from the police and other agencies were involved in raids on businesses and residential premises, as well as fishing vessels in Annan, Silloth and Peterhead. Welfare and support arrangements have been provided for 17 foreign nationals who came to the UK from the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Indonesia to work in the fishing industry.

From those incidents, it seems that we are seeing the reintroduction of some very unpleasant practices in the industry, and I am concerned about that given my previous experiences. Obviously, there will be ongoing investigations into what will be a complex issue in Scotland, so I will say no more about those specific events. However, the fishing industry has suffered massive reputational damage recently, because of court cases involving illegal fishing in Scotland, and those latest events will not improve its image.

Cheap immigrant labour is hired to save money. The most important thing, in my view, is the need to examine the economics of the industry at every level. Fishing boats and gear are expensive, as are operating costs, wages, fuel, insurance and labour, and the acquisition of quota by purchase or lease is extremely expensive. The very nature of the industry means that there is uncertainty about catches, the quality of the catch and the price received for it. Add in the restrictions and a different kind of uncertainty caused by the common fisheries policy, limits on catches, days at sea, type of gear and so on, and a difficult situation is made much worse.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. Although the fishing industry in my constituency has almost entirely disappeared, a lot of people’s jobs are still dependent on fishing in various ways, and many constituents are concerned about the issue for all sorts of reasons. As well as being concerned about the need for sustainable fisheries management within the European Union—it is good to see that we are perhaps moving in the right direction there—does my hon. Friend agree that the international dimension, beyond the EU, is also important in ensuring sustainable fisheries? The EU should ensure that its own fleets and policies, when directed further afield, even beyond Europe, act in a responsible and sustainable fashion.

[Mr Doran]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend, who makes a point that I want to make myself. Some co-ordination in Government on safety, and on other matters, would be appropriate.

Some vessel owners do very well out of the fishing industry, but others struggle. For most it is feast or famine, and in recent years, famine has become much more prevalent. UK-based labour is more expensive, but it is also in short supply in many areas. In the north-east of Scotland, many men who would have gone in to the fishing industry have steadier, better-paid and safer jobs in the oil and gas industry. I urge the Minister to consider the issues that we are discussing and to work together with other relevant Departments and the devolved Administrations to look into these problems, and ensure that whatever has gone wrong is dealt with.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the introduction or the use of men from, in particular, the Philippines in the fishing industry. Surely one approach is for the Government to recognise their skills properly and allow them into the country with work visas. As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, the indigenous labour in the fishing industry often moves on to jobs in other sectors, such as cable-laying in the North sea.

[Mr Doran]

I am not sure that that is the problem, because I know from previous involvement that part of the solution was to ensure that people who required transit visas—most of them are operating outside the 12-mile limit—obtained them, and a time limit was then put in place to ensure that the situation was not exploited. It is a serious, complex problem that requires proper consideration.

It is also worth pointing out that the industry will face new problems as we prepare for the possibility of a new common fisheries policy, with—we hope—much more local control and involvement. There could not be a better time to take a close look at the industry and help to shape it for the new challenges that it will face under a new CFP. At the same time, it would allow us to address the problems that have beset the industry for far too long—poor safety, illegal fishing and exploitation of foreign labour—and perhaps create an environment in which our young people can see opportunities for a good and stable career.

[Katy Clark (in the Chair)]

A number of hon. Members have indicated that they wish to speak, so there will be an eight-minute time limit on speeches. I remind hon. Members that interventions should be brief.

Fish Discards

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 14th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her support. It is a priority quickly to overcome the absurd position that we do not know who holds quota in this country. We want to work with devolved Governments to make sure that we have that register as quickly possible to ensure that we know and perhaps to slay some of the urban myths that football clubs and celebrities own quota. I have never managed to find out the facts about this.

The important point on discards is that we know how to make this work. We begin with a really good experience of working with the fishing industry. Catch quota schemes will result in 0.2% of discards of cod for vessels in those schemes. We want to incentivise fishermen not to catch fish that they would otherwise discard. We want to make sure, too, that where there is a land-all obligation there are supply chains that ensure that those fish are eaten or go into other systems. We should not just transfer a problem out at sea to landfill. The most important thing is that we have time and a clear direction to ensure that we can use all the work that we have done with the industry to make this effective and to stop the problem in a practical sense.

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

It is important to welcome the progress that has been made in the Fisheries Council and congratulate the Minister on the effort he has put in, but does he agree that the discards situation is complex, particularly in the mixed and white fisheries in the North sea—the situation is much easier to resolve in pelagic fisheries—and that we will not resolve the problem through European rules? We need practical regional measures, as has been shown in the Scottish prawn fisheries, where these practical approaches have managed to reduce discards by over 70%.

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely agree that there are fantastic practices in British waters that we want to see as part of the scheme and that it is not just a question of having a big-bang end to the practice. We want to use existing evidence and to work with the industry. I know that we can achieve that and look forward to working with the hon. Gentleman’s all-party parliamentary group on that.

Common Fisheries Policy

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 15th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) on securing the debate and on the good work the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee has done. I managed to secure a debate in November through the good offices of the Backbench Business Committee in November and in my capacity as secretary of the all-party group on fisheries. The message we tried to get across in that debate, which came across strongly, was that we are all in this together—it is one area where we are—and pushing in the same direction, and I think that the Committee’s report is an extremely valuable addition to the material we have at our disposal. Like the hon. Lady, I want the Minister to go to the Fisheries Council and make sure that these points are hammered home after he has built alliances and got the votes needed to make Britain’s position secure.

It would be foolish of me to try to mention all the points covered in the Committee’s report. I think that it comprehensively covers my concerns and those of the fishing industry and makes a number of useful comments. We need to continue to make the point about discards. We are all opposed to discards, but there are no easy solutions to the problem. It is a very complex issue, particularly in our mixed fisheries. I know from people in the industry that they felt that in publishing its proposals the Commission handled the problem of discards in a way that was more like issuing a press release to get them out of a spot than it was about providing a strategy. The problem needs an awful lot of careful consideration, clear rules, technical improvements, which are being made all the time, a process of consultation and, crucially, a buy-in from the industry.

The Committee highlighted the weakness of the science. That area needs to be worked on, but that cannot be done by the UK alone. Around 60% of our fish species are not properly recorded, and other nations with an interest in fishing are in an even worse position, so effort is needed at Government level and at Commission level. Overcapacity is an important problem, and there have been many attempts to deal with it over the years, most of which have failed. I was interested in the concept of transferable fishing concessions. The hon. Lady rightly pointed to what we have at the moment, which strikes me as a transferable fishing concession system, because quotas are freely available, which I think causes a number of problems for the industry. I was interested to hear the hon. Lady talk about the impact of transferrable concessions on our coastal communities, because they are being damaged already. When the quota system was introduced, following the Commission’s introduction of total allowable catches, or TACs, a market in transferrable fishing concessions was effectively created in our country.

[Sheryll Murray]

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that the problem with transferrable quotas was exacerbated from 1 January 1999, when his—Labour—Minister agreed to introduce fixed-quota allocations? Before that we had a rolling track record, but in 1999 his Minister agreed to fix the track record of every vessel to the historical average between 1993 and 1996. That is where we had the problem.

[Mr Doran]

We have always had a problem with quotas. I agree with the hon. Lady to a certain extent, but all Governments since 1973 have had problems and made mistakes in that area.

We have a system in which quotas are bought and sold, and many are held by individuals and companies that once operated fishing vessels which have since been decommissioned. Quotas are often leased out, and sometimes at eye-watering prices. I shall not cite any because I have not seen the details, but the figures that I have been given are staggering, and that has a perverse effect on the industry, because the lower the TAC in any one year, the higher the quota price, distorting the industry quite seriously.

When we have ever-more expensive fishing vessels, fuel, insurance, labour and other costs as we do now, we have a market in quotas which distorts the industry. I strongly support the point, made by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton, that the register of who owns quotas should be published. That area is in complete darkness, and the system should be looked at seriously.

[Jim Shannon]

Does the hon. Gentleman feel that any transferrable quotas should go to those registered boats that are active fishing boats only, not to football clubs or to whoever else seems to have control over quotas?

[Mr Doran]

There are many ways in which we could resolve the problem, but the starting point is to shed a little light on the system and to see what is happening. That is extremely important.

One area that the report does not cover, but which I should like to say a word or two about, is black fishing. I have had brief conservations with the Minister about it, and I have mentioned to him twice now, once on the Floor of the House and once in private, that I want to have a meeting with him and will write to him, and I am in the process of gathering material for our discussion.

We are working on the assumption that the whole issue of black fish is not a problem any more, but I am not sure that that is correct. Everyone in the Chamber will be aware that there have been some serious criminal cases—they were not trials, because everyone pleaded guilty—in the Scottish courts in which a number of fishermen and fish processors have been found guilty of serious offences.

We are talking about tens of millions of pounds, and everyone I know in the fishing industry, no matter at what level they are, knows that the figures that have been quoted, and which were prominent in the individual trials, are just the tip of the iceberg. It was a much more serious issue. I shall not say much more than that, because, although a number of cases been dealt with, one more has still to be dealt with and will be in court later this month.

From the information that we have so far on the way in which the system operated, it is apparent that a very sophisticated process was under way. Skippers falsified their log books as they landed their catches, lying about how much fish was on board. Weighing scales at the factory were rigged. I am told that at a factory at the centre of one case there were two computer systems—one computer, recording a false weight, was visible to the regulators, and the other one was in the loft recording the true weight. There was separate pumping equipment on the quay, with the legitimate fish to be declared sent through one system and the black fish sent through another. I am talking about pelagic fish; I should have emphasised that. Exactly the same thing has been happening in the white fish industry.

The situation has not yet been dealt with, and it might not be, because the trials may have been just for effect, to try to focus on the problem and make sure that it was properly killed. A police officer who made a statement at one of the trials said that there is an assumption that nobody is a victim in these cases except our fish stocks. In fact, there have been a large number of victims, most of whom are in the fish processing industry.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

I do not know much about what the hon. Gentleman is talking about as regards white fish, but could there be a difference in the case of the pelagic stocks, given that any black fish in a white fish area could be non-discarded fish that people are planning to land rather than dump?

[Mr Doran]

No. The operation was much more systematic and organised, and on a much bigger scale, than that. This did not happen by accident; it was not by-catch.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman referred to the view that there are no victims in these cases. The sustainable mackerel hand-line fishery in Cornwall has one hundredth of the catch of the pelagic quota that is available to the purse seine industry in Scotland, and as a result of over-fishing in Scotland, people are losing quota in Cornwall.

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. There are victims everywhere, and that is just another example.

Over the past few years, I have been involved in taking a large number of statements from people involved in the industry, and I will read out a selection of their comments. There are no police inquiries relating to this material. One fish processor with many years of experience told me:

“The system would work on a basis that a skipper would telephone the agent and declare his real catch, whilst at sea. If it was 1,000 boxes, the agent may find a buyer for 500 boxes and tell the skipper to fill in the log for 500 boxes after he had landed at the market. Before the market the 500 boxes would be unloaded from the vessel and transported to the buyer’s premises.”

In other words, the boxes would not go through the system. He continued:

“The agent would record the sale at the true value and alter the species if required to show the ‘black’ fish as non-pressurised stock. At the end of the quota year he would advise the skipper on which species to show in his catch records to ensure he retains his quota.”

So it is not just about volume but species. If coley were being landed, it might, in order to retain the quota, be recorded as some other fish—haddock was the most popular—and haddock might be shown as whiting. A fish merchant said:

“The situation with black fish started to get silly and I am aware that on one occasion a local fish merchant had 4000 boxes of fish in his yard—all black fish which had been transported from the boats to his yard. Meanwhile there were only 1900 boxes of fish in the market at Peterhead and about 1400 boxes in the market at Aberdeen.”

This wide-scale corruption of the system is a direct product of the introduction of the CFP and total allowable catch—and, I have to say, of the failure of Government and Government agencies properly to monitor the system. I want to discuss that with the Minister at length when we manage to get our evidence together.

To finish, I repeat that the Select Committee report is extremely important. I hope that the Minister will take note of the points that were made in the debate in November, which I know will be made again today, and the points that have been made by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton and her Committee, and take the argument to Brussels.

Fisheries

Frank Doran Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House considers that the Common Fisheries Policy has failed to achieve its key objective of producing a sustainable European fishery; welcomes the review of the policy by the European Commission; and urges Her Majesty’s Government to ensure that a revised Common Fisheries Policy makes particular provision for—

(a) a move away from a centralised management system to a system of regional management of fisheries involving all stakeholders and strengthening of the local management of the 12-mile limit;

(b) a manageable and practical scheme to eliminate the problem of discarded fish; and

(c) the replacement of the current system of annual quotas with a multi-annual system of management focused on conserving fish stocks within a sustainable fishing industry, in particular to protect the viability of low impact fishing.

Before I address the issues in the motion, I want the House to remember the bravery of our fishermen, and the incredibly difficult and dangerous work that they do. Fishing remains the most dangerous occupation in this country, and we remember them for their brave work and send our condolences to the families of those who have died. I remember in particular the tragic circumstances in which the husband of the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) died in a shocking accident recently. We send our condolences to her in particular.

The common fisheries policy was established in 1970, before Britain joined the then European Community. Many people believe that the industry was traded as part of wider negotiations on access to the community. That is certainly the view of many in the fishing industry today, and it has coloured their opinion of the CFP ever since. Whatever the circumstances, the British fishing industry changed for ever when this country acceded to the common market in 1973.

Experience tells us that the CFP has failed in its objectives. Its primary objective was the

“rational and sustainable exploitation of fish stocks”,

but, over the life of the CFP, fish stocks have deteriorated considerably, as has our fishing fleet. The system is broken in several places. Decision making is centralised in Brussels, and it is far too complicated. The management style is far too top-down. Decision making is short term, and there is a one-size-fits-all culture. There are also serious issues with the science, but the science determines at least the direction of Council decisions on quotas. We have a system that operates on the basis that management measures and plans for EU stocks can all be created centrally by the Commission, that member states will enforce those rules, and that fishermen will obey them. To put it mildly, that does not reflect the reality of the fishing industry in Europe.

I should like to focus on two issues. The first is the problem of discards, which is high on the agenda. We are all opposed to the principle of good, saleable fish being thrown back into the sea. Television programmes, celebrities and many others outside and inside the fishing industry tell us that that is a bad thing, and of course it is a very bad thing. It is offensive to most of us, it is wasteful, it affects the viability and sustainability of fish stocks, and it distorts the science and scientific advice. It also deeply affects our fishermen, who are forced to throw perfectly good fish back into the sea to rot. The discard of fish is a direct consequence of the one-size-fits-all management approach by the European Commission and its strict adherence to a system of quotas applied to single species over the past 28 years.

The principle of the total allowable catch—TAC—system is questionable in itself, but the refusal to recognise that many fisheries are multi-species and require a much more sophisticated response is a significant sign of the inability of the present system to meet the needs of the fishing industry. Despite the huge improvements made by fishermen, particularly in Scotland, to use more sophisticated gear and other methods to avoid by-catch, it is still a major problem that the Commission has failed to address.

Then there is the even more difficult subject of black fish. From the earliest days of the UK’s membership of the CFP, that has been a problem, not just in the UK but across Europe. Until relatively recently, the subject was ignored by successive Governments. In the1970s, it was estimated that over 20% of the haddock caught in the North sea was illegally caught. Recent inquiries set up by Grampian police, Northern police and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs have resulted in a number of convictions of fishermen and fish-processing companies.

One statistic from a report published in July by KPMG gives a good idea of the scale of the fraud that has been uncovered. The report looked at crime in the corporate world in the first six months of this year, and it showed that, in Scotland, company fraud rose from £2.8 million last year to £94.1 million this year, of which £91 million related to prosecutions for illegal fishing. The sums involved are huge. Everyone in the fishing industry knew that it was going on, and that goes right up to Ministers and their officials.

The fraud has had a number of consequences. One has been a serious distortion of the science, much of which is based on the recording of the details of individual landings. It is clear that, for many years, the recorded landings have been wrong. There have also been serious consequences for many of the businesses that refused to become involved in the black fish trade. Most of them lost trade, and many went bust because their customers could get cheaper fish on the black market. I wish to discuss the related issues in more detail with the Minister, and I will contact him later with a view to arranging a meeting.

It is extremely important to stress that illegal fishing is not unique to the UK, and that it happens in many other countries. Following new regulations introduced in Scotland in 2004 requiring the registration of fish sales companies, the problem of black fish seems to have been almost eradicated. However, black fish and discards are two areas in which the Fisheries Commission has been blind to the impact of its policies. The policies in both areas have been immensely damaging to the fishing industry, not just here in the UK but across Europe, and of course both practices distort the science on which the whole quota system is based.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate, and on the motion. Having identified some of the crucial failings of the common fisheries policy, the motion also identifies one of the key solutions—namely, regional management. That would involve those with a stake in the fishing having a say in the policy. In that way, they would know what was going on and have a vested interest in ensuring that the policy was successful.

[Mr Doran]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. One of the key needs of the fishing industry is to remove the top-down system of management and to involve the whole industry, right down to the level of the fisherman on the fishing boat. I will address that issue in a minute.

We are now promised a radical review. The Fisheries Council seems to recognise some of the issues on management. For example—picking up on the hon. Gentleman’s point—the possibility of devolved decision making is explored in the consideration of the transfer of responsibility away from the centre to the regional seas level and of the inclusion of the fishing industry. There is a strong view in the industry that decentralisation is essential for the future of the UK fishing industry, but it must be decentralisation that is meaningful and that works.

Industry leaders are worried about the lack of detail in the proposals and also about the model put forward by the Commission, as it will require member states with an interest in the various regional seas to co-operate. This has led to fears that regionalisation will simply result in a further layer of bureaucracy and cost. There is concern that the European Parliament, having recently been given new powers, might be reluctant to give them up. There is a history of that happening.

The industry would like to see member states with an interest in regional seas co-operating with regional advisory councils at regional sea basin level to prepare comprehensive management multi-annual plans. The regional advisory councils have been incredibly successful, particularly here in the UK and in other European countries. They must play a vital part in any proposals.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend and his colleagues on tabling this motion. It has broad support across the House, not just across the parties but among those who sometimes have differing points of view on EU-related issues. Does knowing that the House is united not give the Government strength going into the negotiations to take the opportunity of what appears to be some movement with the Fisheries Commissioner to get the solution that has been demanded by our constituents and communities for so long?

[Mr Doran]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have a habit in fisheries debates in sending the Minister off to Brussels with all our support and help. This is not a party political issue; there might be many issues we disagree on, but this is certainly not one of them. The hopefully full support of the House expressed in this motion today is important.

The consultation also proposes a complete ban on discards. Commissioner Damanaki suggests a gradual approach, starting with a limited number of fish species in the ban. The starting point will be in the pelagic fisheries, moving on later to the demersal fisheries. Of course we all want to see a ban on discards, but any proposal to ban them must take account of the reality of fishing. The proposal suggests that the Commission will not budge from its current policy of a species-by-species approach, which ignores the reality of mixed fisheries. Our current science is inadequate and is unable to deal under the current rules with mixed fisheries. A large amount of discards come from those fisheries; what is needed is an ecosystem approach that recognises that many different species of fish—

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that much of the problem of discards comes from the EU rules themselves, particularly the catch composition rules, which mean that the seven target species are not caught to a certain degree, but so many other kinds have to be dumped as a result that it amounts to absolute madness from the EU?

[Mr Doran]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. There are many reasons for the high level of discards, and what he suggests is certainly a major one.

What we need is much greater emphasis on the science and particularly on making the science fit the management purpose. We have had more than two centuries of fisheries science, but in the present condition I understand that there is no analytical assessment of around 60% of the stocks in our waters. The science needs to improve, it needs to consider the specific problems associated with mixed fisheries and it needs to inform a sustainable policy. Of course, the Fisheries Commissioner’s proposals will work with some fish stocks, but it will fail—and fail miserably—if the same rules are applied to mixed fisheries.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

In that case, does the hon. Gentleman agree that the practice of taking scientists on fishing vessels should be extended throughout the industry, because it will help to provide the best possible data for the future management of fisheries, especially in circumstances where we cannot distinguish between the intentional and unintentional over-catching of certain species, particularly in the mixed fisheries?

[Mr Doran]

One major problem with the science is that there is not a close enough relationship between the science and the fishermen. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Other countries such as Ireland do that, and I do not see why we cannot have scientists on our boats and secure much more co-ordination with them. As I say, the science needs to improve, it needs to consider the specific problems associated with mixed fisheries and it needs to inform a sustainable policy. Of course the Fisheries Commissioner’s proposals will work, but not in the mixed fisheries.

Let me say a brief word about the December Fisheries Council meeting. I know that other colleagues will enter the debate on various aspects of the Commission’s proposals, but this is the only opportunity we will have to say something to the Minister about the Fisheries Council in December. As usual, there are many issues on the agenda; let me run through them very quickly. As far as the industry is concerned, the major problems are the pre-programmed effort and total allowable catch reductions required by the cod recovery plan, the mismatch between the science and the Commission’s proposals for 2012 TACs, and the continuing saga surrounding Iceland, the Faroes and the pelagic stocks. I hope that the Minister will deal with all those issues in the meeting.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the success of this debate and the House’s attitude will be measured largely in December at the Council meeting? If the Council is allowed to ram through another 25% reduction in our total allowable catch, it will effectively put more fishermen out of business and completely ignore the wishes of this place?

[Mr Doran]

I have two quick points for the hon. Gentleman. The Commission says that it will follow the ethos and philosophy of the recommendations in the consultation document. Yes, there is a mismatch between the science and what the Commission is proposing.

I was about to say that, in the 20 years of my attendance at fisheries debates in this place, I cannot remember a single good word being said about the common fisheries policy. I think that that reflects the views of most of my colleagues here. For a number of years the former Prime Minister, Ted Heath, attended these debates—not to support the fishing industry in Bexley or even to defend the CFP, but to defend his decision as Prime Minister to sign up to the CFP when the UK joined the then European Community. He put up with a lot of abuse and many attacks over the issue, particularly from his own side, but he stood his ground and maintained that the decision he made was in the best interests of the country. The current CFP review gives us an opportunity to argue for a much more radical change to the CFP—one that recognises the past failures of the system and puts in place a CFP that is fit for purpose in the 21st century.

The three issues set out in the motion—regional management, a practicable scheme to end discards and a multi-annual system of management—are a good starting point and we look forward to a positive outcome from the negotiations. In the meantime, there is work to be done at the December Council, and I wish the Minister well.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Doran]

With the leave of the House, may I say that we have had an excellent debate? I am deeply sorry to those who were not able to contribute. We seem to have had half an hour taken off our debate because of the urgent question. In the 20 years or so I have been attending fisheries debates, this is the one in which there have been the most speakers, which clearly underlines the importance of the issue we have been discussing.

The message to the Minister is loud and clear: we support radical reform. That has come from all hon. Members’ contributions. The Minister can go to the negotiations in December and in 2012 in the full knowledge of that support. He can afford to be brave. The Commission has put very little meat on the bones, but that could be an opportunity. He can be brave and bring the radical reform that we all want to see.

[Jim Shannon]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Last year, this debate took place in Westminster Hall and lasted for three hours. The request was made to have the debate here in the House, to which everybody could contribute. Will the Deputy Speaker consider the process and the time scale, because we thought we were going to have a three-hour debate here as well?

Common Fisheries Policy

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I refer my hon. Friend to the Fishing for the Markets scheme, which I mentioned earlier and is trying to do precisely that. It is trying to create new supply chain mechanisms for various species as well as to give us a more eclectic taste in the fish we eat. We basically eat five species of fish in this country and in Spain, I think, they eat 20 or 30. I urge my hon. Friend and other colleagues to start eating dab, coley, gurnard and other species that are thrown away much too readily and are absolutely delicious.

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) on securing the urgent question. It is good to hear such all-party support in the Chamber for the position being taken by the Minister. That is extremely important. However, he will be aware that the industry feels very strongly that what we are seeing is basically a framework with a few headline-grabbing statements but not a lot of substance. There is a considerable amount of work to do. Given that we did not have a proper fisheries debate last year, will he ensure that this year we have a proper, full day’s debate so that this crucial issue can be properly discussed?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his work through the all-party group; he is very much respected in the House for his views on this issue. We had a four-hour debate on discards and working towards maximum sustainable yield not long ago. I share his disappointment that the annual fisheries debate was moved to Westminster Hall; I hope that this year it will take place in the Chamber and that we will have a full day’s debate.

Fisheries

Frank Doran Excerpts

Thursday 2nd December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) not only on securing the debate, but on giving the shortest opening speech I have ever heard in a fisheries debate, and I have been attending them since 1987. The reason why it was so short is that she is not the Minister.

I want to preface my comments on the industry by making a point that needs to be addressed. The annual fisheries debate used to take place in the Chamber on a Government motion; that was the case long before 1987. I and many other Members assumed that that is what would happen this year, because it is an extremely important industry, as those who represent coastal communities know. I was shocked to be told when I contacted the Minister’s office that “the Department could not organise a debate.” The same words were used in a letter the Minister wrote to the hon. Lady. I was at pains to find out why that was so, particularly when it concerned such an important industry and at such an important time, just a few days before the Brussels summit.

This is not a party political point, because I am sure that the previous Government would have been just as guilty in the same circumstances, but the Government Whips seem to have taken all the departmental debates, such as this one, including the five defence days, and loaded them into the days allocated to the Backbench Business Committee for the business it proposes. It seems that what was intended to extend democracy for Back Benchers and give them more debating days has been hijacked by the Government to offload debates that were previously held in Government time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Doran]

I will finish my point, because I know what the Minister is going to say. When I questioned Government Whips on that, I was told that the appropriate number of days had been allocated to the Backbench Business Committee. That might be true in a normal year—we have yet to see a normal year—but this year will not be normal because it will extend into 2012. I will say no more about that, but it is important, particularly to the fishing industry, which in many respects often seems to be a Cinderella industry.

[Richard Benyon]

I will set out the situation from my perspective. I hope that the hon. Gentleman understands that I relish the opportunity to address the House on this important issue and that there is absolutely no inclination on the Government’s part to hide from the debate. There was a debate last week in Backbench Business Committee time on the regulation of independent financial advisers. I think that today’s debate has attracted much more interest from MPs, not only those who represent coastline constituencies, but those who care about our marine environment. I hope that the strength of feeling that the hon. Gentleman has expressed, and which I and other hon. Members will express, will be pointed out to the Committee so that we can get a response.

[Albert Owen (in the Chair)]

Order. Can we get back to the matter of fishing?

[Mr Doran]

I welcome the Minister’s remarks and was not targeting him specifically—

[Mr MacNeil]

He was a by-catch.

[Mr Doran]

That is a very good point. A number of Members have indicated that they want to speak, so I will say no more on that point. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan covered many of the points that I wanted to cover, so I do not intend to say much. I hope that we will have an opportunity to hear the Minister give his review of the year and set out the Government’s plans and the position they will take at the Fisheries Council meeting on 13 December on all the important issues that will be raised today.

The general point I want to make is that it has been a difficult year for the fishing industry. The hon. Lady mentioned that 13 fishermen have been lost at sea this year, and every year that figure is shockingly high. It is the most unsafe of all the industries in the UK. I know that the industry makes serious attempts to improve its safety record, but the problem tends to lie with individual vessels, and it is difficult to enforce safety measures. I do not know how we can get the message across, but we need to do much more to improve safety.

The pelagic fisheries have been mentioned, and there is a serious problem in that regard. The idea that one country can put a gun to the head of the whole of Europe, in the way that the Icelanders seem to be doing to get whatever they want—I am not quite sure what they want—is a serious problem. We had the opportunity in the all-party group on fisheries to meet representatives of the Scottish pelagic fisheries, who made it clear how difficult that is for the industry and how much they want to see the problem resolved, but not through concessions to Iceland.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Doran]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will have the opportunity to make his own contribution.

Another serious problem this year, particularly for the Scottish fleet, has been the Isle of Man’s decision to limit scallop fishing. Financial pressures are beginning to tell. I am told that up to 41 vessels from the white fish fleet—almost a third of a fleet of 120—are likely to be decommissioned over the next year, which is a sign of the difficulty imposed on the fleet by the limited fishing opportunities allowed by the current CFP arrangements. The Seafood Scotland website, which I looked at while preparing for the debate, reported in news releases for June and July this year that, for a number of vessels, nearly all the days at sea had been used up, so the end of year fishing will be limited. That puts pressure on other links in the chain of the fishing industry.

My main interest in the fishing industry is in the processing side. The Aberdeen fleet is turning to fish elsewhere. The processing industry has serious problems with the fluctuations in the provision of raw material. There is continuing uncertainty over the progress of reform in the common fisheries policy, manpower changes in the Commission, the lack of news about the proposals that are to be laid and the politics of it all. Whenever we discuss such matters with the industry, there is no sense that there will be any sensible breakthrough that will reform the way in which we operate at the moment. There are so many problems with the common fisheries policy that it is difficult to know where to start. We know where we would like to be, but given the size of the opposing bloc in the European Union, there will be major difficulties in reaching any sensible decision to reform the policy.

On the positive side, there is, unquestionably, progress in the industry. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan mentioned the Marine Stewardship Council. I remember being at its launch in 1997 at 4 Millbank, its UK branch, when people were saying, “Well, it’s not going to apply to us. Our fishermen are the last hunter-gatherers.” There was no sense that the council was going to be anything really positive for the industry. Since then, however, there has been a sea change in the way in which the industry views itself and functions, particularly in Scotland, which has led the way in the UK and in Europe. The industry has adjusted to the new environment—its massive gear changes, technical improvements and, most importantly, cultural change. The industry now talks about itself as harvesters rather than hunters. It knows that the stock that remains has to be sustainable, which is why there is so much anger about the way in which Iceland has operated. There is also much anger about other issues such as the by-catches and the waste of resource that is allowed under the current arrangements. Haddock and pelagic stocks are now MSC-approved, which does huge things for the marketing opportunities for my fish processers as well as for others.

The other positive thing—I know that it sounds confusing to call it positive—is that trials are under way in Scotland of fishermen who have broken the rules and regulations in relation to black fish. Some 15 fishermen or vessel owners have been convicted and are awaiting sentence. How can I possibly present that as good news? Well, for most of the time that I have been speaking in these debates, black fish has been a key issue, which meant that our industry was not properly regulated. A combination of effort from various Government bodies, Grampian police and others has seen black fish put into its coffin, which is a good thing. It should have happened many years ago.

Earlier, I mentioned that the biggest problem facing the fish processing side of the industry is the availability of raw material. I know that an industry such as the one in Aberdeen that relied on white fish—haddock principally but cod as well—now deals with a whole range of products. The uncertainty makes life very difficult. My fish processers also make it clear to me that their relationship with fish catchers is not always easy. The catchers think that the processers steal the food out of their babies’ mouths, and something similar is said in the other direction. None the less, at the end of the day, they know that they are linked, and the processers now recognise, as much as the catchers, the need for a sustainable industry, but they want one with more certainty.

The skills of the people in the industry is an issue, not least because the flow of new people is drying up, particularly in Aberdeen. Fish processing work is mainly done by workers from east Europe and China, who have the skills, work hard and sustain the industry. Very few young people from the UK or Scotland are coming into the industry and learning the skills that their parents and grandparents learned and passed on.

The hygiene regulations, which mostly come from Europe, are expensive and costly for the industry. Over a number of years, there has been regulation after regulation and that causes difficulty. The processers are keen to point out that unlike the fish catchers, they do not get any decommissioning costs in return.

Let me say a few words about the way in which the debate in the industry has changed. As secretary of the all-party group on fisheries, I can say that we have become much more engaged with external bodies, such as the World Wildlife Fund and GLOBE International, of which many Members of this House are members. The organisation Baltic Sea 2020, which is based in Stockholm, is now interested both in functioning in the North sea and in the common fisheries policy.

I return to my point about the change in culture in the industry. Representatives of WWF and of GLOBE International spoke at our all-party group a week or so ago. It was fascinating to hear them because they were speaking almost the same language as our fishing industry representatives, and that is a sign of how much things have moved on. Certainly, reading the presentations of both organisations, they are presenting arguments to Brussels that we would want to see presented by our own Government.

I have one final word to say to the Minister. Despite my outburst at the start of my contribution, I know that he is doing a good job and that he will do a good job in Brussels. I wish him well in all his travails and hope that at the end of it all he will get some sleep.