Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Davies]

The Darlington economic campus is an important part of this Government’s operations and of our Government estate, but it is also important to the people of Darlington, and not just in terms of the jobs it has created. Of course, it builds on the back of significant funding on my hon. Friend’s watch: the £22 million town deal and the £6 million as part of the shared prosperity fund. That is one of the reasons why the people voted to elect Ben Houchen just the other day.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Regional inequality may be made worse by my constituents facing having to pay again for funeral plans after they were sold fake funeral plans by Legacy funeral directors. Many simply cannot afford to pay for those plans again and, instead of having the funeral that their families wanted for them, they will only be able to have the free service offered by the council. Does the Minister agree that banks should offer more discretion when looking at victims of fraud, and will he meet with me to discuss this specific case further?

UK Economy

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bim Afolami]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point about migration. I completely agree that we need higher earnings for British people, not an economy where we import too many people and keep earnings down. That is why we have been focusing on raising the national living wage and ensuring that ordinary household incomes will go up as a result of this Government’s policies, as I have explained. It is worth pointing out that certain things happened last year, such as people fleeing Ukraine and Hong Kong, which meant that the immigration numbers were particularly high. The broad thrust of what my right hon. Friend said is correct: we want a high-skill, high-wage economy.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

I do not know whether the Minister realises quite how infuriating people find watching his Government tell them, “Everything is fine”, “It is all going really well” and “There’s nothing to see here”, when every day they feel poorer and small businesses are closing. If the Prime Minister and the Chancellor cannot face reality, how on earth can anyone trust them to solve the economic crisis that their Government created?

[Bim Afolami]

Let me be clear with the hon. Lady, whom I have a huge amount of time for as a very good Member of Parliament: it is not our position that everything is okay. There has been a challenging international context: a once-in-100-years pandemic, and an energy crisis caused by Putin’s war in Ukraine. This Government have done everything we possibly can to build an economy for growth, and I hope we have her support.

Mortgage and Rental Costs

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I hope that more and more lenders will be added to those 85% of providers. The details will be known in the next few weeks. This comes on top of the FCA’s rules around lenders having to take an individual approach to the circumstances of their customers, especially those trying to find a way through when they fall into difficulty.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[John Glen]

No, I wish to make a bit more progress. I will come back to the hon. Lady in a moment.

This measure will take effect in the next few weeks and it means that a homeowner with £100,000 outstanding on their mortgage over 15 years can change their payments—with no impact on their credit rating—by extending the mortgage term by 10 years, which could save them over £200 a month, or by moving to interest-only payments, which could save them more than £350 a month. A further measure for this group of customers means that, if they are approaching the end of a fixed-rate deal, they will have the chance to lock in a new deal with the same lender up to six months ahead. However, they will still be able to apply for a better like-for-like deal with the same lender, with no penalty, if they find one when their current deal ends.

[Emma Hardy]

I understand why the Minister wants to have a voluntary charter, but does he agree that what we are actually seeing from the banks—this was raised on the Treasury Committee—is that they are very quick to raise interest rates on mortgages, but not so quick to raise them on savings? The difference between the interest rates being raised on mortgages and those being raised on savings is around 50%, which is completely unfair. When the Chancellor meets the banks, will he also add to the conversation the unfairness that exists when it comes to interest rates on savings? That is why I am reporting back to the Minister on the need to mandate this—because we cannot always assume that the banks will act in the interests of their customers.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point. As the Chancellor said yesterday, he did raise that with lenders on Friday. We will continue to work closely with them on those disparities where they exist. My colleague the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, who is responsible for the relationship with financial services institutions, will also be attending to this issue. It is right that, with interest rates rising, banks should be looking to put as much of that rise as possible on to the savings rates that they offer to consumers.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Ever-increasing food prices mean that some families are having to cut down on the amount they eat. Will the Minister support Labour’s plan to negotiate a new veterinary agreement for agriculture products to reduce the cost for food producers and bring down those crippling food prices?

[Jeremy Hunt]

We will always look at Labour policies, but they are normally not right.

Mortgage Market

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend is a diligent champion for his constituents in Bracknell and I am sure it will not be too long before he has good news to talk about on prices that consumers face. We have seen the cost of fuel coming down and as we achieve the Prime Minister’s objective of halving inflation this year, so some of the cost of living pressures that his constituents face will abate. In the meantime, he should know that this Government are on the side of households and we have been willing to support them to the tune of about £3,300 every year. I wish his constituents all the best.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Interest rates are up and mortgage deals are being pulled left, right and centre, yet the Minister has had to be dragged here to answer this urgent question. Will the Government please refocus on this mortgage crisis, rather than on the latest round of Conservative infighting, and give the public the reassurance they desperately need?

[Andrew Griffith]

I can give the hon. Lady the reassurance that the wellbeing of the nation’s mortgage holders, savers, pensioners and investors is the whole of my focus, as it is of all of my colleagues on the Treasury Bench. As Members on both side of the House will know, it is a feature of the UK mortgage market that from time to time mortgage deals are withdrawn from the market and repriced. As of now, there are more than 5,000 mortgage offers from different suppliers, at different tenures, in the market. It remains my focus to ensure that those who seek to buy a first home or to remortgage their home have the most competitive offers available.

Cost of Living Increases

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 25th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” to the end of the Question and add:

“welcomes the Government’s action to halve inflation, grow the economy and reduce debt; supports the Government’s extensive efforts to support families up and down the country with the cost of living through significant support to help with rising prices, worth an average of £3,300 per household including direct cash payments of at least £900 to the eight million most vulnerable households; notes the use of a windfall tax on energy firm’s profits to pay around half of the typical family’s energy bill through the Energy Price Guarantee, also notes the fact that the Government has frozen fuel duty for 13 consecutive years to support motorists; welcomes the expansion of free childcare to all eligible parents of children aged nine months to four years old; and notes that Labour will fail to grip inflation or boost economic growth, with their plans for the economy simply leading to unfunded spending, higher debt and uncontrolled migration.”

Even in times of economic challenge, this is a Government who prioritise helping families face down the cost of living. I think Members across all sides of the House recognise that having come through the covid crisis, families and businesses across the country have felt additional global headwinds. After two decades of low inflation, the world has been confronted with fast-growing prices. We are not alone. While we tackle this, our friends in Ukraine are at war and we are supporting them diplomatically, militarily and economically. We have faced down those challenges while supporting our economy and, because of the action we took, we avoided a recession. Our sensible, credible economic plan is working. The International Monetary Fund said we are on the right track, unemployment remains very low by historic standards, and measures in the spring Budget deliver the largest permanent increase in potential GDP that the Office for Budget Responsibility has ever scored in a medium-term forecast, as a result of Government policy.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

I realise that this will bring back painful memories for the right hon. Gentleman, but he may recall that the previous Prime Minister crashed the economy. The UK has been uniquely impacted. The issues with Ukraine and covid are impacting the rest of the world, but they are impacting the UK in a slightly different way because of the previous Prime Minister’s actions. I know that the right hon. Gentleman wishes to erase all memory of that, but he must acknowledge that her actions have had a consequence, and the British taxpayer is still paying the price.

[John Glen]

I value all my colleagues. The previous Prime Minister’s insights into the growth imperative in this economy were right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

I wonder whether Government Members need to work on their lines a bit because they seem to be saying, “There was nothing we could do—there has been a war in Ukraine and covid.” That leads us to ask, what is the point of them really if there is nothing they can do when there is a pandemic and when our country is in need?

The defining question for people to hold in their minds as they vote in the election is this: “Do I really want another five years of this?” In everything, in every way, the 13 failed years of Conservative Government and Lib Dem coalition rule—the Lib Dems do seem to forget that they were part of it for five years—have failed our country and prevented us from reaching our potential. If growth had continued at the same rate as it did under a Labour Government, we would have an extra £40 billion for our public services.

But what makes me really angry about this Government is the way in which they have made too many people feel like this is as good as it gets, that we do not deserve to have good public services, or that good public services are beyond our reach. In the next elections, they are relying on people giving up hope—hope that our country can be so much better than it is today.

When Labour left office, public satisfaction in the NHS was the highest it had ever been. We were so proud of our achievements in the NHS that, in the 2012 Olympics, we put it on show for the whole world to see. That was how much we celebrated it, but not only have this Government broken our NHS—they are revelling in breaking the people who are working for it. They are telling working people in this country that their ambition to not just survive, but actually live a life, is beyond their reach, however small they may think it is. They tell them instead, “No, strive instead for 30p meals. That is as good as you are going to get under this Government—30p for your meal and that is it.”

If people want more than that, that is when all the cheerleaders will have a go. If they want to work with their trade unions to fight for a better salary so they can afford a bit more to eat, that is unreasonable; it is so unreasonable that this Government introduced legislation to stop workers being able to come together to fight for the salaries that they actually need. When we look at our international comparators, we see that the French are 10% richer and the Germans are 19% richer, and that is a result of this Government. They are continuing to fail us. Our country is seeing what happens when low-paid workers are told by this Government, “Go and get another job.” Well, they are going to go and get another job in adult social care, and look at what has happened there.

The last Labour Government achieved so much: the longest period of sustained low inflation since the 1960s, low mortgage rates, the national minimum wage, 14,000 more police in England and Wales, a cut in crime of 32%, child benefit up by 26%, 36,000 more teachers and 274,000 more support staff. That is what the last Labour Government achieved. This Conservative Government can judge the Labour party on our record, and on 4 May, the public will judge the Conservatives on theirs. [Hon. Members: “More!”] I will save it for next time.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 18th April 2023 Commons Chamber

If the Chancellor cannot see the problem, he is simply not paying attention. I ask him and the Treasury Front Bench team, in all seriousness, to scrap not just the decarbonisation allowance but the investment allowance and, instead, to bring forward a windfall tax worthy of its name. Failing that, I ask that they please accept my amendments, which would at the very least give us transparency over the costs of these policies both to the taxpayer and, crucially, to our planet.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

What an interesting debate it has been. I have found myself slightly amused numerous times by comments from Conservative Members, especially when have they tried to make out that theirs is the party of low taxes, when taxes as a share of GDP are heading to a post-war high. The public are not stupid. A recent poll in The Spectator showed that the public associate the Conservative party with higher taxes. The reason is that the Conservatives keep putting their taxes up.

Another problem that I have seen play out this afternoon as I have sat here is that the Conservative party is inherently divided. Different parts of the governing party are pulling in different directions. That is seen in the seven Chancellors we have had since 2010. As different factions have taken over the leadership, those seven Chancellors have pulled the party in different ways, creating uncertainty. Uncertainty is one of the key things that businesses say leads to a lack of investment. It is not just businesses telling us of the problem of uncertainty, but economists. They tell us about the difficulty with uncertainty and why the UK is uniquely impacted by a lack of investment.

Torsten Bell said that if we go back to 2010 when the Conservatives first came to power—13 long years ago—we initially see a relatively good bounce back from the financial crisis, but then

“we basically miss out on all of the investment growth that other countries saw in the second half of that decade. We flatlined, everyone else soared. In so far as there was a global boom going on, that is when it happened. We did not see that. There have been some revisions to the data recently that make the bounce back from the pandemic on business investment less grim than they looked before, but they are still pretty bad.”

That is one economist. Another economist, Professor Coyle, said:

“Tax will make a difference, but it is not the only thing that matters, and surveys of employers tend to highlight poor infrastructure”—

something that anyone who spends any time travelling by rail around the north is only too aware of—

“and lack of skills, which we’ve already been talking about. Lining up all the different things that matter is obviously part of the challenge—so, consistency”—

that word again—

“and making the system work as a whole.”

Another economist, Paul Johnson, said:

“The lack of consistency in policy is clearly a problem. Something that we talked about—perhaps it is not the right place to talk about it—is that the political instability is a problem for companies looking to invest”.

Seven Chancellors and a divided governing party that does not know which direction to take the economy and our country. Businesses are seeing that, voting with their feet and choosing not to invest in the UK. Professor Coyle went on to say:

“If you look at the past decade or so, what has been happening to firms, even within a given industry, is that the dispersion of productivity has increased. There are some very productive firms. Their productivity growth has slowed down, but they are pulling further and further ahead of…the rest. Firms that are operating outside London and the south-east tend to be the ones in the low productivity part of that distribution.”

As we have said before, the issue goes back to infrastructure. The constant under-investment in Northern Powerhouse Rail, with different Prime Ministers making decisions about whether we will or will not have it, will have an impact on business investment and influence whether businesses choose to invest in our country.

Professor Coyle went on to say:

“I do not mind whether it is called an industrial strategy or not, but we need some kind of long-term perspective—some kind of strategic approach to managing the economy.”

Hear, hear, Professor Coyle. I agree and so does the Labour party, which is why the Labour party has a long-term plan for growth in the country and why I am speaking in support of new clause 3. If businesses cannot have certainty from the governing party or understand which Chancellor is going to introduce which measure in what way, or which faction is the latest to take over the governing party, then they need that certainty from the Labour party, because they are really struggling.

I have met with local businesses in my constituency and they gave me a very clear message: it is incredibly difficult. The Chancellor may boast—boast, ha!—that we are not in a technical recession, but try telling that to the small businesses in my constituency that are finding life incredibly difficult. As we walk around different high streets, we can see the number of shops that are closing. Although the review of business rates does not go as far as the Labour party wants—we want to get rid of business rates altogether—hopefully Members from across the House can support such a fundamental review. Let us look at what we can do to support businesses, especially small businesses. I am sure each and every one of us has been lobbied hard by the Federation of Small Businesses and heard directly from small businesses about how difficult they are finding things.

I will comment briefly on new clause 7 about research and development tax relief, which is proposed by Liberal Democrat Members. It is well worth reading the TaxWatch report into the levels of fraud associated with R&D tax reliefs. We may want to support businesses with R&D tax reliefs—I am not saying that we should not do that—but we need to take the issue of fraud more seriously. The OBR predicts that the total cost of R&D reliefs will increase from £6.8 billion in 2021 to £9.2 billion in 2026-27, but fraud and error in that scheme totals over £1.1 billion in the last three years.

[Sarah Olney]

The hon. Member makes an excellent point about fraud and error. Does she agree that removing the tax breaks entirely is a sledgehammer to crack what is ultimately quite a small nut? Further attempts to crack down on fraud and error would be a much more constructive way to approach the issue she raises, rather than scrapping the tax relief entirely.

[Emma Hardy]

I never for one moment suggested we should scrap the tax relief entirely, but we definitely need to do something about fraud. When we have businesses ripping off the taxpayer for £1.1 billion—money that is desperately needed for our public sector, hospitals and infrastructure—we need to take the issue seriously and not brush it under the carpet. R&D claim firms continue to hard sell opportunities to claim refunds, often to companies that should not qualify.

We have issues with the tax gap, which is around £32 billion. That tax gap continues to increase and the tax fraud gap stands at £14.4 billion. That is a heck of a lot of money. If they were serious about wanting to reduce taxes, I would have thought Government Members would want to tackle tax fraud. I have raised the issue with the Minister in a previous debate and I know she is aware of it, so will she outline the steps being taken by HMRC and HM Treasury on the important work of reducing tax fraud and simplifying our tax system?

While we are talking about tax simplification, and as a teaser for the debate tomorrow, it seems strange that the Government wish to abolish the Office of Tax Simplification. That seems a rather strange thing to do when they seem so keen on having tax simplification, but maybe we can continue that discussion tomorrow.

[Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)]

I always wondered how the Conservative party did its policy development, but I think the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) has helped me to come to a conclusion. My sympathies therefore go to the Minister.

This Finance Bill is yet another glaring example of the UK Government trying to shove a square peg into a round hole for the people of Scotland. They are desperately trying to fix economic problems of their own making, but their Bill will do the square root of zero to fix the enormous productivity and labour supply challenges that our nation faces as a result of their mismanagement.

I know that the SNP is often seen as a force for positive general happiness around this Chamber, but there is a great black cloud of gloom and doom overhanging the Bill. It relates to Brexit: the unwelcome guest at the wedding, the elephant in the room, the truth that dare not be spoken by its instigators. Brexit has brought us headlines such as “Economy in decline”, “No-growth Britain”, “Bottom of the class at the G7” and “Export exodus”—hardly what we would call sunlit uplands, and not a unicorn in sight.

Did Scotland vote for this? No, we did not. We did not want Brexit, but it was forced upon us. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister seems to be contradicting his own ideology by remarking on all the special and exciting opportunities for Northern Ireland from access to the EU and UK markets. He does not even realise the irony of his comments or the gross unfairness to Scotland, which has been left in the lurch, with our democratic mandate ignored.

The Scottish people know that this is a Government in denial, with a double whammy of Tory ineptitude on the economy and a damaging Brexit that cannot be fixed by a Finance Bill produced by the same team who were behind that not-so-winning combination. With the economy contracting, according to the International Monetary Fund, and with the Chancellor failing to meet his two main fiscal targets of a falling public debt burden and borrowing below 3% of GDP by 2028, we now know that workers in old Blighty are £1,300 worse off as a result of Brexit. The IFS has stated that our productivity and economic output will fall by 4% as a result of leaving the single market, leaving workers significantly worse off and public services at the thin end of the wedge again, with less money in their budgets. We need less “Better Together for Scotland” and more “I’m Scottish…Get Us Out of Here PDQ!”

I turn to our amendments. I hear from small and medium-sized businesses in my constituency and across Scotland that they are struggling as a result of the economic decline. They are fighting a war on all fronts with energy costs and the costs of doing business, not to mention that they are still trying to get back on their feet after the pandemic and are dealing with the new red tape generated by Brexit.

I am happy to support SNP new clause 8 on extending relief of R&D expenditure for our excellent and important data and cloud computing services. On research and development, the refrain that I hear on repeat from businesses is that they are keen to invest but have their hands tied behind their back. Looking at the clauses before the Committee today, it is easy to see why the Conservatives have lost their “party of business” strapline. So many businesses are reporting that they feel abandoned by this Government and left to float alone, without a life raft to get them out of the swirling morass of the economy and into better times. If the Government want growth and prosperity, they need to listen—really listen—to the people at the coalface who do business every day and who have faced years of knocks and challenges.

On corporation tax, the Government do not seem to know whether they are coming or going. One minute, corporation tax rises seem to be in vogue; the next minute, they are not. The Government swither and dither, but the business community desperately needs stability, security and some long-term plans that will give it the space to breathe and grow.

The ever-present climate crisis is a threat not just to business, but to people’s livelihoods. The UK Government have not shown their best colours when it comes to ensuring that their legislation is in line with the climate challenges. Despite the climate-induced weather events in the UK and abroad, the Prime Minister left out tackling climate change and reaching net zero from his core priorities for his growth strategy. With the number of elephants in the room, No. 10 and No. 11 are getting pretty crowded.

We cannot pretend that Brexit and climate change are not devastatingly bad for business and for people’s finances. Without acknowledging the catastrophic damage that they bring, we cannot move forward with a comprehensive plan. The Chancellor can present as many Finance Bills to Parliament as he wishes, but these are people’s real lives, real livelihoods and real futures, uncushioned by wealth and privilege, and catastrophically unsupported by a tin-eared Government who refuse to look at the reality of the situation that they themselves face. It is time for Scotland to make a swift exit, and I hope that in the coming months we can achieve just that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

If the hon. Lady provides me with the details, I will be more than happy to do that.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

On Friday I met representatives of the Federation of Small Businesses and of small businesses in my constituency, and the message from them is that they are extremely worried about their future, about their sustainability and about energy costs. One of the points they highlighted was their concern about what will happen to their energy costs after April. Will the Minister look at matching what the Labour party is proposing, which is cutting small business rates to enable small businesses to save up to £5,000 a year, to ensure that they can continue not just for this year but going into the future?

[James Cartlidge]

I have also met the FSB. The one crucial point I would make is that I understand why businesses are concerned in these very challenging times—I ran a small business myself before entering Parliament—but we have to balance out the costs of these schemes to the Exchequer. We have to run sound public finances, not least because that engenders a platform of stability and confidence, which is in the interest of every single business in this country.

IMF Economic Outlook

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

My hon. Friend makes a brilliant point and reminds us that not only did the IMF talk this morning about our strong performance in 2022, but at the autumn statement it welcomed those measures and recognised that a balance must be struck between fiscal consolidation and supporting the most vulnerable. The best example I can give is that from April, far from support with high energy costs being withdrawn, there will be a new £900 payment for families on benefits. That shows we are getting the balance right between the fiscal discipline necessary to work with the Bank of England to reduce inflation and ensuring that families are supported through these challenging times.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Today the Government’s response to the IMF forecast has been simply to say that forecast is wrong. If the Government will not look at the forecast, let us look at the facts. The UK is the only G7 economy smaller now than it was at the start of the pandemic, and growth has been lower under the Conservatives than it was under the last Labour Government. Can the Minister tell us whether the Government have any respect for our international economic institutions?

[James Cartlidge]

I did not question the IMF forecast—that is not correct. I simply quoted what the IMF said, that cumulative growth over the 2022 to 2024 period is predicted to be higher than in Germany and Japan and at a similar rate to the US.

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 7th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffith]

The bank hub initiative, just like the new voluntary initiative on LINK cash machines, has an important role to play. Frankly, these initiatives have started relatively recently, and as well as making sure today that we get the right balance in statute, we also need to see them delivered. I will take that case forward for the hon. Lady, and I will write to her. The bank hubs programme is now being deployed at pace. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) boasts of his bank hub, which I suspect will not make the hon. Lady delighted, but it shows that they can deliver, and that is what we want.

I will clarify for the record what we are saying, if I may. Under the Bill, the FCA, when acting to ensure reasonable access to cash, has to have regard to the Treasury’s policy statement in this area. That is the statement that will set out from time to time the Government’s position on matters such as cost and location, and the FCA will have to have regard to that when setting the detailed prescriptive regulations.

That gives time—I am putting the industry on notice—for those industry-led schemes to prove that they can deliver, and to ensure that the Government have a robust regulatory framework: a belt-and-braces framework. I believe that is the right and flexible way of dealing with the matter, rather than right now locking it in statute for all time. I will ensure that we reflect the House’s views on that when we craft the policy statement.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way. The point made by the right hon. Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) makes clear the need for free access to cash to be provided for in the Bill. As the number of people making cash transactions falls, it becomes more expensive to distribute cash freely. There is, however, as I hope we all understand, a vulnerable group in our society who still need free access to cash. As cashless transactions increase, the need to maintain free access to cash for the most vulnerable people in our society increases. That is why we are asking for it to be provided for in the Bill.

[Andrew Griffith]

I agree with the hon. Lady’s point that it becomes a pressing issue. The justification, having successfully transacted in cash since the first Roman emperor decided to dispense pieces of metallurgic value with his head on them, is precisely that we see the transition and we want to get it right, in the interests of the vulnerable. The Bill also contains powers to regulate the wholesale distribution of cash—those people who trunk cash up and down cash centres across the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

If there are any other right hon. or hon. Members who cannot stay for the wind-ups, they should let me know. I was not aware that the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) could not stay. It is important that people stay, so I would not necessarily have called him.

[Emma Hardy]

I rise to speak to new clauses 22, 23 and 29 and amendments 19, 21 and 22 in my name, which are all about financial inclusion. I thank Martin Coppack from Fair By Design, the Phoenix Group and Mastercard for meeting me earlier this week to talk about why they support financial inclusion.

When we think of financial inclusion, we tend to think of the consumer groups that support it, such as Citizens Advice, and it is not widely known that it is supported by FTSE 100 companies such as the Phoenix Group, Mastercard and Legal & General. When I asked why they support it, they said that since we left the EU, regulators are more powerful than ever before. Of course, I do not believe that the Government should have the call-in powers that were debated earlier. That huge transfer of powers to the regulator means that it becomes even more crucial for Parliament to set the correct objectives; we have to get the objectives right if we are to allow our regulators to function effectively in the post-Brexit world.

There was a rumour that the Government were keen to push back on any additional objectives for the regulators. Apparently, they compared it with the national curriculum, where everybody wants to get their bit in, and perhaps in the same way, everybody wants their bit to be a new objective for the regulators. But even if that is the case—clearly, there is a demand for the regulators to have many new objectives and for objectives to be strengthened—that does not mean that we are incorrect, because financial inclusion is important. Ensuring that the FCA has regard to financial inclusion turns it from a nice to have to something that we must have. It would embed financial inclusion in the design of financial services and products forever.

When I met people from Mastercard and they were talking to me about future innovations in financial services, fintech and the way financial services are developing new products, they said that at the moment financial inclusion is seen as an add-on, in that they develop a product, and financial inclusion is fitted into it by asking, “Well, how can we make this financially inclusive?” Those from Mastercard told me that they want financial inclusion to be there from the beginning, so that when new products are designed and created, it is given primacy, and is there throughout the whole design.

Without financial inclusion, constituents will continue to face what is called the poverty premium. I have spoken before about the poverty premium, which is basically the additional cost of being poor, and it explains why it is so expensive to have such a low income. In Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, the poverty premium works out at £459 per household, which is nearly £6 million paid in extra costs by my constituents just because they happen to come from lower-income families. This is all calculated by Fair By Design.

For too long, the idea of financial inclusion has been a hot potato passed between the FCA, the Treasury and other regulators and Departments, with nobody prepared to take ultimate responsibility. For example, the Competition and Markets Authority started to carry out investigatory work on the poverty premium across essential services, but in the end determined it was too difficult, and it now signposts organisations to sector regulators such as the FCA. However, the sector regulators say that this is not their responsibility, as it involves elements of social policy and pricing of risk—and so we go on.

We are asking the FCA to collate the information needed to really look at and analyse the poverty premium. Of course, as we expected, the FCA says it does not want another objective. I think we probably understand why it does not want to be given any additional work to do, but it is our job as Parliament to set and establish the types of financial services we want, and to ask what our principles are as parliamentarians, what things we care about and what we want our future financial services to look like. Surely Members across the House would agree that having a financially inclusive sector or financially inclusive products that cater for people right across the population of the UK, not merely the most profitable ones, is a good thing.

When I was talking to people from Mastercard and Phoenix about this, they said that financial inclusion could open up new markets for them among those who would be interested in their products, if they were designed in an effective way. My new clauses and amendments ask the FCA to have regard to financial inclusion, and would place a duty on the FCA to report to Parliament annually on how well it is doing with financial inclusion and giving that information back to us. The proposals would end the current damaging situation by placing a clear remit on the regulator to ensure it routinely and properly explores financial inclusion issues across its work, allowing greater clarity on unintended consequences and the best interventions needed to ensure financial inclusion, as well as who is best placed to act.

The Government could save my constituents in Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle nearly £6 million, and it would not cost them a penny. Surely that, if nothing else, means that the Government should look more favourably at the amendments I have tabled.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I am grateful to catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) on tabling new clause 10, for which he should receive much of the credit. This amendment has an extremely simple intent in laying a duty on the FCA to report to Parliament on

“(a) the adequacy and appropriateness of the FCA’s use of its regulatory powers; (b) the measures the FCA has taken to protect vulnerable consumers, including pensioners, people with disabilities, and people receiving forms of income support; and”—

finally and most importantly—

“(c) the FCA’s receptiveness to the recommendations of the Consumer Panel.”

I will now say why paragraph (c), in particular, is so important. The hon. Member has explained clearly why the FCA should regularly report to Parliament, and in my role as deputy Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I have constantly urged openness and transparency, wherever possible, so that our constituents can make full and proper judgments on the actions, or lack of them, of regulators such as the FCA.

Like the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent, I will give the House an example. The PAC inquiry that we held in April and June this year highlighted the plight of some 2,000 of the 7,700 British Steel pensioners who in 2019 suffered significant financial shortfalls because of the wrong advice given by a significant number of independent financial advisers who advised pensioners to opt out of their valuable defined-benefit pension schemes. To add further insult to injury, the actions by the regulator caused a number of independent financial adviser companies to go out of business or merge with others, and therefore the compensation that pensioners received rightly was capped. I know this is a complicated subject but both the hon. Member and I are using it as an egregious example of why the FCA needs to be more accountable to Parliament and our constituents. This amendment stems from recommendations 5a and 5b in the PAC report “Investigation into the British Steel Pension Scheme”, published on 21 July:

“The FCA should be more proactive and consumer-focused in its engagement with stakeholders. It should have a better mechanism for responding to consumer harms and collect more evidence on a regular basis to pick up on issues that are being raised, especially from emerging risks in financial markets…The FCA must also review how effective the Financial Services Consumer Panel is at consumer protection and how it influences policy debates within the FCA from a consumer angle.”

The hon. Member and I have had discussions with the Economic Secretary, who is on the Front Bench today, and I believe he is sympathetic to the principle that the FCA needs to be much more accountable. If that is the case, I very much hope that he will concede the principle of this amendment and incorporate it as a Government amendment in the other place. Neither the hon. Member nor I wish to be prescriptive about how or when this reporting should take place to Parliament; that is a matter for the Government.

No financial institution will ultimately exist without its consumers. The whole point of the FCA as a regulatory authority is to protect their interests. Rather than having to work through long and complicated reports, there needs to be clear, easily available information on what regulators are doing, or not doing, on their behalf. All of this requires a fundamental shift in the regulator’s—the FCA’s—attitude to the consumer and a commitment to engage more when things go wrong.

Finally, I want to comment on the fraud aspects of the Bill. The PAC recently conducted an inquiry on fraud and discovered that 41% of all reported crime in June was accounted for by fraud, up from 30% in 2017, yet just 1% of police resources is being devoted to fraud crimes. So we urgently need to see the Government’s new comprehensive fraud strategy.