Public Services

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the powerful speech from my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Ruth George).

A considerable number of media and political commentators have waxed lyrical about the nature and content of the Queen’s Speech—an opportunity for the Prime Minister to put forward a bold and ambitious programme for Britain, and to unite our brilliant country and focus on the bread-and-butter issues that matter to our constituents. It has been a failure on both counts. It has been a cynical exercise, using our constitution to peddle hollow soundbites and recycled Bills that will be exposed as froth in the thick of a general election. This stuffed parrot Government with a minus 45 majority have made a hollow wish-list to create a miracle and bring the dead parrot Prime Minister to life. It will not do that; it will never be delivered.

From Prime Minister Cameron to Prime Minister May and now Prime Minister Johnson, the Tory civil war on Europe that used to be a minority obsession has been inflicted on the nation and divided the people with the fog of Brexit. Yet when I visit, as many people in this Chamber do, local pubs, cafés, schools and employers, I find that they would like a different conversation. They would like to see a Government who are on their side, with an agenda that offers hope to current and future generations. They want to see a Government who will start to repair the real damage of nine failed years that have seen our public services devastated by cuts—the political choice, the Tory choice of austerity.

I wanted to see measures in the Queen’s Speech that would—[Interruption.] Does the Under-Secretary want to intervene? The hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) should stand up if he wants to intervene! Stand up! I will start again.

I wanted to see measures in the Queen’s Speech that would transform public services right throughout Weaver Vale. Instead, I have seen brilliant schools such as Helsby High School in my constituency have its funding cut by £1.6 million by 2020. One school—£1.6 million! Parents have seen the letters, and hard-pressed teachers and staff have felt more than a financial pinch as posts are left unfilled and support services are cut. It is not quite the same story for Weaverham High School in the Northwich part of my constituency, because things are even worse. Beyond the hollow spin of this Government in name only, the reality for this great comprehensive school is £2 million-worth of cuts by 2020—shameful. This is not an agenda of education, education, education, but cut, cut and cut again.

Turning to policing, the Government’s record is, quite frankly, criminal: 21,000 police officers cut, over 6,000 police community support officers cut, and 600 police stations shut down. What will be the impact of the measures outlined in the Queen’s Speech on my constituency? The whole of Cheshire will have a new target of 90 recruits. This is the same force that has seen frontline police officers cut by 149. Fewer police and support staff equals more crime, and that is according to the Government’s own figures. A Prime Minister who tells porkies to the Queen is telling porkies to the electorate—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I do not want to make too much drama out of this, but it will be better if the hon. Gentleman rewinds 30 seconds and rephrases what he said was said to Her Majesty.

[Mike Amesbury]

A Prime Minister who is economical with the truth with the Queen and with the electorate is a Prime Minister who is going to pay the price sometime soon.

How does the newly proclaimed Tory love affair with the NHS play out in my constituency? This is the same party that voted 22 times against the founding of the NHS. Halton General Hospital is on its knees, and this Government have twice turned down capital funding for its dilapidated building while trying to privatise the urgent care centre. Moving over to Northwich, the Victoria Infirmary is equally in need of capital investment. However, neither hospital will be the beneficiary of the minimal national programme of six promised rebuilds—not a jot, not a penny from this sham of a Queen’s Speech.

In preparation for today, I spoke to two council leaders in my patch. With all the talk of austerity being over, they told me that funding is not coming their way any time soon—60p in the pound cut. It is time for a change. It is time for a new Government. It really is time for Labour.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Abbott]

I need to make progress, because I must leave time for those on the Treasury Bench.

The Government need to understand just how disappointed and frightened the Windrush victims are. It is almost as if, because they are an elderly cohort, the Government feel that if they string this out—[Interruption.] That is what they feel; go and meet some of them—[Interruption.] The Home Secretary is not dealing with it quickly enough, and I think that only a Labour Government will give justice to the Windrush generation.

I was interested to hear the Home Secretary talk about protecting our borders, because if we leave the EU we will lose the European arrest warrant and access to some very important databases of criminals and missing persons, as well as the level of co-operation we get as members of the EU. I would not talk so much about protecting our borders when we are losing some of the elements and instruments that would help the Government keep the people safe.

Before I conclude my remarks, I want to say a word about the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign, because I am a WASPI woman—I was born in the 1950s, and I was very disappointed that there was nothing about the WASPI women in the Queen’s Speech. We spent most of our adult lives assuming that we got a pension at the age of 60, and when these women understood that they would not, for most of them it was too late to change their working arrangements and arrange their pensions and their insurance. You have left a cohort of women who helped to build this country helpless and frightened, and I think that is a shame.

In conclusion, it is not enough to make wish lists of what you want to do with the public sector, because the public will find you out. The public know how long it takes to get a hospital appointment. The public know how long it takes to get a policeman to come to the site of a crime. The public know about the public sector and what the result of the statements from the Government are, because it is part of their lived experience. You will be found out. You will be—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The right hon. Lady must not say you; will she please just say they?

[Ms Abbott]

The Government will be found out. It is because I am confident that the public will understand how they have been failed on public services that I am confident Labour will win the forthcoming general election.

Points of Order

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You were not in the Chair at the time, but the word that the Minister heard was “indefinite”. My recollection is that the word that I used was “indeterminate”. Thank you for indulging me so that I could get that on the record.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his brief and precise point of order. He has corrected the record. There is a distinction between the two words, and I am sure that his point will have been taken into consideration.

[Joan Ryan (Enfield North) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Minister’s answer to my question just a few moments ago regarding the unreliability of statistics was actually misleading. I accept that she may inadvertently be misleading the House, but she will know that I only got the answer on the numbers because I pointed out to her that a previous Minister had been asked the very same written question and gave the answer. As I said, I waited seven months, but the Minister did not give me an answer because she was unsure of the statistics. I do not know whether it is incompetence, inadequacy or what.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I appreciate the right hon. Lady’s point, but she will know that it is not a point of order for the Chair; it is a point of debate. The right hon. Lady has asked a question and the Minister has given an answer. It is not for the Chair to adjudicate as to whether any answer is acceptable or pleasing to the Member who asked the question. It is the Minister’s answer and I will give her the opportunity to expand on it if she wishes to do so.

[Caroline Nokes]

indicated dissent.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The Minister does not wish to expand on it; she has given her answer. The right hon. Member for Enfield North (Joan Ryan) is not satisfied, but c’est la vie—that’s life.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your advice on a very important matter for my constituents. Two in five pensioners do not claim the pension credit that they are due. My elderly constituents are now contacting me to tell me that the telephone line provided by the UK Government through the Department for Work and Pensions to apply for pension credit over the phone is not properly staffed. Some people are kept on hold for over 30 minutes to speak to an adviser, before giving up. I tried to find online application forms to download in order to allow my constituents to apply for this benefit by post, but it turns out that no application forms are available, except for those living in Northern Ireland. That means that many of my elderly and financially challenged constituents are facing considerable obstacles to claiming the support for which they are eligible, which would go some way to explaining why two in five pensioners do not claim pension credit. Madam Deputy Speaker, I seek your advice and guidance as to what action I can take to ensure that the Government make it as easy as possible for pensioners in my constituency and across the UK who are eligible for pension credit, and who need this important support, to claim it without encountering these obstacles.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Lady for her courtesy in giving me notice that she intended to raise that point of order. She raises a very important and serious matter about which the House has shown its concern on at least two occasions in the past few weeks—that I can recall—in the form of an urgent question and a debate. It is a matter of significant importance. I cannot give her any further advice from the Chair today, except to say that those on the Treasury Bench will have heard what she has said and I am quite sure that the appropriate Minister will be informed of her concerns. Of course, there are various ways in which the hon. Lady can bring this matter to the Floor of the House once again. If she cares to visit the Table Office, I am sure that she will be given the appropriate advice. I look forward to hearing her raise the matter with the Minister on the Floor of the House in due course.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You may be aware that yesterday the National Records of Scotland released the drug deaths figures for Scotland, which stand at a record high of 1,187 deaths—souls lost to drug addiction—in the past year. There is nothing to this effect on the Order Paper today, but have you been given any indication whether a Home Office Minister will come to the House and make a statement on this issue? Some of the responsibility lies with the Home Office, as these matters are considered to fall under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, so it may be helpful for a Minister to enlighten the House on what their part may be in dealing with this crisis.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point of order. The answer to the first part of her question is that, yes, I am aware of these very worrying and serious statistics, which I am sure all Members will take very seriously. On her second point, I am not aware that a Minister is at this moment planning to come to the House to make a statement. I will say to the hon. Lady what I said to the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) just a moment or two ago, which is that there are various ways in which she can bring this matter to the attention of the House in a formal way, and if she cares to visit the Table Office, I am sure that she will be given advice on how to do so. I look forward to hearing her raise these matters with the appropriate Minister in due course, because I am sure that it is a matter about which the House would like to hear.

Police Complaints and Accountability

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 11th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Before the House adjourns, I thank everybody who works so hard and such long hours to support and look after us here in the Palace of Westminster, and who have spent extra time that they were not expecting to spend in the run-up to Easter. I wish all of them, and all hon. Members, a happy and peaceful Easter holiday.

Question put and agreed to.

International Women’s Day

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Before we proceed, I am afraid that I will have to introduce an initial time limit of seven minutes, to ensure that everybody gets an equal chance to make all the important points that have to be made. I would also like to welcome to the Gallery of the Chamber Stacey Abrams from the USA. It is good to have an international input to our proceedings. Ms Abrams was the Democratic candidate for Governor of Georgia and the House of Representatives minority leader, and we are delighted to be observed by her this afternoon.

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

I am going to complete this. Throughout my time in this role, I have worked with the Government. I worked with them on the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019, and I think that our working together has enhanced the security of our citizens. What I am doing here at the Dispatch Box today is to scrutinise this decision carefully and hold the Home Secretary to account, which I believe is the role of a responsible Opposition. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Oh, I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon. My goodness, I thought he was giving way but I am very pleased that he has concluded. There will be a limit on Back-Bench speeches of three minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am going to do something very unusual. The Front-Bench speakers have taken far less time than I anticipated, so, with apologies to the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), I will raise the time limit to five minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. We are back on to four minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. We have to reduce the time limit to three minutes.

Macpherson Report: 20th Anniversary

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 25th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Janet Daby]

I am really interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying about the types of training that police officers should have. I very much believe that training needs to happen in every tier within the police force. I am interested to hear about other forms of training, about how he thinks that training should and could be delivered and about how it would be resourced. In Lewisham, an organisation called Second Wave engages with young men and women within the community. It is a drama group, but it delivers training for police officers and it pairs up training with new recruits. The organisation has been flagged up as providing excellent training and, clearly, it is something that we should consider further.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. That was a little long for an intervention.

[Douglas Ross]

The intervention may have been a little long, but it made a very valuable point. I thought that I might be seen as a little controversial tonight, but clearly I am not, as there seems to be agreement across the House that there are issues with the training. That is not to dismiss what is currently being done, but we could go further, and I think that that was the hon. Lady’s point. Whether we are talking about her local group in Lewisham or others elsewhere, we must look at every way in which to educate. It should not be just a one off. We cannot say that an officer’s racial equality training is done once they start their career. That person could be in post for 30 or 40 years, and, by the end of their career, they could be in a very senior position within the force. We should ensure that they undergo continuous development, not just a one-off training course, then saying, “That’s it, done. Move on now to the next stage in your training.”

I also want to look at the percentage of police officers both in Scotland and across the rest of the country from a black, Asian and minority ethnic background. Clearly, that is something that the Macpherson inquiry looked at with great interest, and something with which we are still trying to grapple. We have not achieved the successes in that area that we should have done. Again, going back to evidence in Scotland, the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights states that 1% of police officers, police staff and special constables come from BAME background. That has remained pretty much unchanged for six years. Therefore, 1% of all levels within the police—whether it be police officers, police staff or special constables—come from BAME backgrounds. That compares with the fact that minority ethnic groups in Scotland now represent 4% of the population, which has doubled from 2% in 2001. These figures vary wildly in many parts of the country, but there are underlying issues that we need to consider. I mentioned figures elsewhere in the country, and figures for England differ in various parts. The Metropolitan police has 13% of officers from ethnic minority backgrounds, but 43% of the population in the Met area is from an ethnic minority background, so we really do need to look at that for the future. We need a modern police force to reflect the diversity of a modern Scotland and a modern United Kingdom, and that requires an altogether different approach to recruiting officers and, crucially, retaining them.

I turn to other evidence that the Committee has received in our ongoing inquiry into the 20th anniversary of the Macpherson report. Although we have had only one oral evidence session, I have been looking at the written evidence submitted by groups including Liberty, which submitted a detailed response to our call for evidence. However, one response stood out for me and it was from someone called Mr Chris Hobbs, who wrote at the very top of his submission to the Home Affairs Committee:

“I have my doubts as to whether submissions from retired police officers such as myself, will be given due consideration or play any part in the HASC final report.”

That is a sad reflection. Mr Hobbs attached an article that he wrote for an online newspaper some years ago, but his view was, “I’m not even going to bother submitting this because the Home Affairs Committee won’t be interested.” He felt that we would not be interested in his views because he was not from a BAME background. The message has to get out very clearly that we want the Macpherson inquiry to improve policing for everyone, not simply those from BME groups. They are crucial in this, but unless we listen to everyone in the police force, more anger will build up among officers who do not come from BME backgrounds as well as those who do. That piece of evidence shows that it is important for us to look at the whole policing sector.

Whether people agree or disagree with Mr Hobbs’s submission—I am not saying what I think because I have not read the full article—he should at least be content to know that it has been received and will be considered. We may ultimately disagree with everything that he says in his submission and how it relates to the Macpherson inquiry, but we cannot and will not just completely ignore it.

Mr Hobbs makes one point in his submission that is outwith the article, saying that he does not know of any officer

“who does not wish to see more BAME officers recruited”.

That is a positive element of his submission, but he also says that efforts to increase recruitment of every sector into policing is hampered by consistent negativity from politicians of all sides. I hope that we do not lower tonight’s debate to that level.

I want to discuss the legacy of Stephen Lawrence and his death, which was mentioned by the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee in her intervention on the hon. Member for Nottingham North. When the Committee was hearing evidence, I asked Baroness Lawrence what we should consider and have in our minds every year when we recognise Stephen Lawrence Day, and Baroness Lawrence said, “Positives.” She said that we should think about positives on Stephen Lawrence Day, and she continued:

“Stephen’s name has helped to change society in a way that I do not think anything has done in a long time…Stephen was somebody who loved being at school. That is part of his life that was all positive. That is what we want to see young people trying to embrace—all the positive stuff… law has been changed because of his name, but if we as a family had not pushed, none of that would have happened. As young people grow up, they need to see what you can do, and what difference you can make within society.”

That was the compelling evidence of a family who have been grieving for decades and continue to grieve the tragic loss of their son, but who still want to see positivity at the end of that experience.

I looked for the family’s reaction to the announcement that there would be a Stephen Lawrence Day, and Neville Lawrence—Stephen’s father—said that the annual commemoration of Stephen’s life is

“a mark of what we have been trying to do for years—our son’s memory is going to be enshrined in history”.

The English philosopher Francis Bacon said:

“In order for the light to shine…the darkness must be present.”

The darkness of Stephen Lawrence’s death will always be with his family and his friends, and with this country, but his legacy will continue to burn very brightly because of what he did in his all-too-short life and what his family have continued to do since his death.

Crime (Overseas Production Orders) Bill [Lords]

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 30th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Before we continue with the debate, the House has the exciting prospect of the results of the deferred Divisions.

In respect of the question relating to consumer protection, the Ayes were 309 and the Noes were 268, so the Ayes have it.

In respect of the question relating to financial services and markets, the Ayes were 309 and the Noes were 261, so the Ayes have it.

In respect of the question relating to floods and water, the Ayes were 310 and the Noes were 267, so the Ayes have it.

In respect of the question relating to radioactive substances, the Ayes were 309 and the Noes were 265, so the Ayes have it.

[The Division lists are published at the end of today’s debates.]

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

The first thing I should point out is that everyone in the House wants to see a way in which the mutual legal assistance treaty system is speeded. I do not think there is any issue with that in any part of this House. The issues to which I shall come in a moment in essence fall into two categories: first, the issue of death penalty assurances; and secondly, protections for journalistic data.

In respect of the intervention from the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), he has tabled an amendment that is essentially the same as the one that I pursued in Committee. I do not accept in any sense the difference that he suggests there is between the two. I am pleased that his amendment has been accepted and adopted by the Government.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 28th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I commend the hon. Gentleman on his excellent poetry. I am terribly sorry but we will have to reduce the time limit to six minutes.

Points of Order

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise for not being able to raise this matter with you in advance—the Policing Minister may be interested to hear this—but I am aware of concerns about harassment targeted at some of the peaceful demonstrators who have been outside Parliament for many weeks, months or years protesting about issues around Brexit. I am always unclear about the boundaries of the parliamentary estate, but I am sure that you would agree, along with many Members, that people should be able to express themselves and protest freely and peacefully outside Parliament’s buildings.

I am told that some of those protestors, particularly those from SODEM—the Stand of Defiance European Movement—including Steven Bray, are being harassed by people holding potentially defamatory placards targeting individuals and by the activities of the far right. This is a relatively recent development and, as I think you will be aware, these good-natured protests have been going on quite peacefully for a long time. Could you use your offices to speak to the parliamentary security authorities to ensure that protestors are kept safe, that their right to protest is respected and that contact is made with the Metropolitan Police to ensure that those protests are able to continue in a safe and secure way?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point of order. It is matter of concern for Parliament and for Members that peaceful protests should be allowed in the vicinity of Parliament. Exactly what constitutes peaceful protest and what crosses the line into a breach of the peace is another matter, and one on which I obviously cannot comment without knowing further details. The hon. Gentleman has targeted his point of order well in raising it while the Policing Minister is still in the Chamber.

[The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Mr Hurd)]

indicated assent.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I take it from that nod that the Minister has listened carefully to the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty). I will also ensure that the Serjeant at Arms knows about what the hon. Gentleman has said, as I am sure Mr Speaker would wish me to ensure.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. On 6 November, I tabled a written parliamentary question to the Ministry of Justice regarding the number of appeals involving special educational needs cases and tribunals, asking for that material to be provided on a local authority basis. On 12 November, I received a response from the Department saying that such information would be placed in the Library. It is now 13 December and that information has not been provided despite regular calls from my office to the Library and the Ministry of Justice to try to secure it. Given that so few sitting days remain, I wonder whether you can advise me on how best to secure that information so that I may update my constituents, who are worried about special educational needs tribunals.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point of order. As she will know, the Chair has no power whatsoever over the way in which Ministers operate their Departments, but I will echo what Mr Speaker has said many times. There is a duty upon Ministers and their Departments to answer hon. Members’ questions in a timely fashion, and it would appear that the hon. Lady has waited quite some time for her answer. By raising the matter right now, she has brought it to the attention of those on the Treasury Bench, and I am sure that her points will have been noted. If she still does not receive an answer, I am sure that she will come back to Mr Speaker for further advice and that he would be happy to help.

Police Funding Settlement

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hurd]

The hon. Gentleman will know that this is a settlement for England and Wales. To his point, it is designed to help police and crime commissioners to manage the very real cost pressures that they face while giving them the space to continue their plans to recruit additional officers and fill key capability gaps. Our priority is to help the police to increase their capacity and to do an even better job in responding to increases in demand. That is the full intention of this settlement.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

And the prize for patience and perseverance goes to Kerry McCarthy.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. There is one advantage to being called last, in that I have now heard the Minister respond over and over again to my many colleagues who have raised the increase in violent crime, the impact of the cuts and the loss of frontline police officers in their constituencies. He has not answered anyone who has questioned him on whether the extra money he has announced today will do any more than just fill the pensions funding gap. We have lost 700 frontline police officers in the Avon and Somerset force. Will today’s announcement mean that we can replace them?