Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 19th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Bill Esterson]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Before the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) considers giving way, I must point out to him that this is an extremely short debate, that he has had plenty of time to speak over the past two days, that many Members in the Chamber have not spoken on the Bill at all in those two days, and that he has spoken for longer than the Minister. However, I leave it up to the hon. Gentleman; he has the floor.

[Toby Perkins]

Of course I take your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I shall attempt to crack on but, as we said yesterday, the programme order gives us a pathetically short period of time to debate the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins]

I can see you, but I am saying something at the moment. The hon. Member for Huntingdon wished to move an amendment—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. This is not the moment for discussing the programme order. We have very little time left in which to consider this important Bill, and the hon. Gentleman must stick to his Third Reading points—briefly.

[Toby Perkins]

I think that that rather makes my point, Madam Deputy Speaker.

At the start of the Bill’s passage, our objectives were clear—[Interruption.] The Minister for Business and Enterprise is getting angry now. I appreciate that he has had a pretty difficult couple of days, but he should have been apologising last night not to the Prime Minister, but to all the publicans he was trying to get in the way of and all the people he has let down. He turned up late to the start of the Bill’s proceedings in Committee and its passage has been a shambles. If this is his Churchillian way of taking measures through Parliament, he should have spent a little more time at the knee of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as he might have learned a little more.

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[Tom Blenkinsop]

On a slightly different note, I wanted to raise one factor that was highlighted to me. There has not been one speech or one single contribution from a Scottish nationalist during the entire—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. That is not a point for Third Reading. I asked the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) to be brief because there are people who have had no chance to speak in this debate. I trust that what the Chair says will be listened to.

[Toby Perkins]

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) was making an important point, but I accept your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker.

We have come to the end of the Bill. We look forward to it coming back here. It has been strengthened in respect of prompt payment and includes the market rent only option and a pubs code that the industry has demanded for many years, but we have not seen serious action on zero hours. We have seen a Government at the fag-end of their time in power doing the least they could on the question of zero hours, which shows their lack of commitment to dealing with the issue. None the less, the Bill leaves Report stronger than it arrived, and the House should be very proud of that.

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[Bill Esterson]

The Bill has the words “Small Business” firmly in the title, but the measures it introduces also cover employment. We did not discuss what the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) talked about at all, but a strong theme running through much of what we did talk about was the insecurity that is endemic in our society today, whether for small businesses or in employment. The question that I do not think has been answered in Committee, on Report and on Third Reading is whether the measures in the Bill will address that insecurity.

We had some very good debates on pub companies, and an amendment that will help family brewers was made in Committee. That will go a long way towards helping that sector. Then we had yesterday’s fantastic decision by the House to support the market rent only option, which Members across the House and many outside have long campaigned for. I know that Elaine Lynch of the Weld Blundell in Lydiate will be one of many publicans in my constituency who will welcome that decision.

Another issue we debated long and hard, including on Report, was late payment. As my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) said, we will have to wait and see whether the Bill makes a difference in practice. One in five business failures are the result of late payment. Some £39.4 billion in late payments, or £38,000 on average, is overdue to small businesses. The Government have missed an opportunity by not supporting our amendment on an automatic 8% charge on late payments. As the Forum of Private Business has stated, that would have made a significant difference and gone a long way towards reducing the time and cost that small firms spend chasing late payments, allowing them to concentrate on growing their business and creating jobs.

I think that opportunities have been missed with regard to employment, zero-hours contracts, the exploitation of workers and abuse of the national minimum wage. The Government have promised to do things without actually putting measures in the Bill. We will have to wait and see whether they make a difference or not. In my constituency, 40% of workers are paid less than the living wage. Across the country that is a huge problem for many people and their families, whether as the result of the growth in part-time work, zero-hours contracts or bogus forms of self-employment. The reality is that the change in the nature of employment and the growth in low pay are fundamental reasons why the deficit has gone up, despite the Government’s claim that they would get it down, because tax receipts are not being collected. That is the reality of what life is like—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I asked the hon. Gentleman to be brief. I trust that he will listen to the Chair.

[Bill Esterson]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I made that point because the Bill was an opportunity to tackle some of the problems at the heart of our economy, to build an economy that works for small businesses and for ordinary people, and I do not think that the Government have come anywhere near that. That is why we need a Labour Government to support small business and people on low pay. This Bill is a missed opportunity. I hope that the Government can deliver on some of the things they said in Committee and on Report, but we will have to wait and see.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 3—Prompt Payment Code, duties of the Secretary of State—

‘(1) The Secretary of State shall—

(a) ensure that any business with payment terms of more than 60 days cannot sign up to the Prompt Payment Code, and that any existing signatory with payment terms of more than 60 days is removed from the list;

(b) at the end of each financial year, the Secretary of State shall write to all businesses in the FTSE 350 who are not signatories of the Prompt Payment Code asking them to become so;

(c) the Secretary of State shall publish a list of those businesses written to prominently on the Government’s website.”

New clause 4—Late payment review—

‘(1) The Secretary of State shall—

(a) conduct a review into how the Government can use the payment publishing regime to ensure that small businesses who are paid late by a larger supplier are automatically paid compensation, and into how the onus of reporting late payment can be shifted away from the smallest businesses who cannot afford to lose significant customers; and

(b) report back to both Houses of Parliament on the conclusions of the review.”

Amendment 6, in clause 3, page 4, line 33, at end insert—

“(g) about the circumstances and process for amending payment terms of the company.”

This is for companies to include details of the circumstances and processes (including who will be involved) by which payment terms would be amended, preventing unilateral and ad hoc changes.

Amendment 91, in clause 11, page 12, line 19, at end insert—

“(5) The Secretary of State may by order establish a Prohibited List of certain classes of exports that cannot receive UKEF/ECGD support.

(6) An order establishing , or thereafter amending a list for the purposes mentioned in subsection (5) shall be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.”

This amendment would grant the Secretary of State the power to prohibit specified types of exports from receiving government support, thereby enabling UK export finance provision to reflect government policies and priorities, such as preventing arms sales to certain regimes. The content of, or changes to, any such list would need to be approved by Parliament.

Government new clause 5—Independent Complaints Commissioner: reporting duty.

Amendment 92, page 20, line 5, leave out clauses 20 to 26.

This amendment removes the obligation on future governments to set a deregulation “business impact” target for each Parliament.

Government amendments 27 and 28.

Amendment 7, in clause 37, page 35, line 9, at end insert—

“() duties to establish the past payment performance of potential parties to a contract, before contracts are entered into;

() duties to ensure contracts entered into include the contractor’s requirements for prompt payment of their suppliers.”

These are to ensure that the payment performance of potential contractors are known before contracts are entered into and that contracts entered into require contractors to pay their suppliers promptly.

Amendment 1, page 35, line 16 , at end insert—

“() duties relating to the provision of apprenticeships and training opportunities as a result of procurement;

() duties to publish reports about the amount of expenditure undertaken by the relevant procurement function in relation to—

(i) amount and proportion of expenditure undertaken by small and medium-sized enterprises,

(ii) amount and proportion of expenditure undertaken in the local area.”

Amendment 2, page 35, line 22, at end add—

‘(5A) A person making regulations under this section may also specify the reasons why firms may be excluded from entering into contracts.”

Amendment 3, page 35, line 28, at end add—

‘(8A) Regulations under this section are subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000”

Amendment 4, page 35, line 30, leave out subsection (10).

[Debbie Abrahams]

This group of amendments is seeking to address the very significant issue of businesses paying their suppliers late. Recent data show that the late payment debt burden for UK businesses is more than £46 billion, with SMEs shouldering most of this. They are owed nearly £40 billion in late payments and 60% of small businesses are affected, with the average small business owed over £38,000 in late payments.

It is getting worse: £36 billion was owed in 2012, so the increase over recent weeks and months can be seen. In other debates we have heard about the implications of late payments for these small businesses, from productivity to access to finance and credit terms—all these are affected. For these businesses, there is not just the inconvenience of spending an extra 158 million hours chasing payment: vital cash flow that is stemmed often affects their very survival, their jobs and their livelihoods. In 2012 it was estimated that 124,000 small businesses were put out of business directly as a result of late payments.

For me, it has been about the personal stories. My interest in late payments started when a constituent came to me and said that their business was going under directly as a result of this issue. This opened a can of worms, not just in my constituency but across the country. The issue of late payments is endemic. When someone describes how their life’s work has been destroyed by what can only be described as corporate bullying—large companies paying their bills late just because they can, because they have the power—it is clear that it is one of the most raw forms of injustice.

From the late payment inquiry held last year, it was clear to us that it is not just a micro-economic issue. With approximately half the work force and half the UK’s income in the private sector coming from small businesses—a massive £1,558 billion—it is inconceivable that late payment is not affecting the wider economy and, of course, a sustainable recovery. I am glad that the Government are tackling the issue; it has been a long time coming. I started my Be Fair—Pay On Time campaign in 2011 and now the Government are finally getting to grips with the issue, but I am afraid that the measures in the Bill do not go far enough. It is regrettable that in Committee the Government failed to support measures that would have seen small businesses automatically compensated for late payment by their suppliers. I hope that the Minister will reconsider and have a look at new clause 1 and the amendments.

New clause 1 seeks to address the issue of retention of moneys in the construction industry. You may be aware, Madam Deputy Speaker, that at any one time over £3 billion is outstanding in the construction industry by way of cash retentions. This is an aggregate sum of moneys provided for by small businesses in the event that they fail to remedy defects. I have several examples, including that of a company that wrote to me to say that £60,000 of retention moneys was withheld—5% of the overall contract—for eight months. There was nothing in the contract about that. They had to go through adjudication and it ended up with them losing £22,000. These are small businesses, and this is their livelihood.

Recall of MPs Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 3rd November 2014 Commons Chamber

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 1 be the First schedule to the Bill.

Amendment 38, in clause 7, page 5, line 27, leave out “maximum” and insert “minimum”

This amendment changes the number of designated places for the signing of a recall petition from a maximum of four to a minimum of four.

Clauses 7 to 10 stand part.

That schedule 2 be the Second schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 11 to 13 stand part.

Repeal of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 23rd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but the annunciator appears to be broken. We are on the hatred of Liberal Democrats and the coalition debate, and I am waiting for the Fixed-term Parliaments Act debate. Will you, Madam Deputy Speaker, ensure that the annunciator gets repaired, so we can carry on with the House’s business?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I appreciate the eloquence and humour with which the hon. Gentleman has made his point, but it is of course not a point of order.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

I am coming to an end. I have put it several times to our beloved Prime Minister that we should end this coalition, which is haemorrhaging our support, and the support of the Liberal Democrats. He says that he cannot do it because, under this ridiculous Act of Parliament, he could not call a general election, and the Leader of the Opposition might be in power by teatime. I do not know whether or not that is right, but there is a certain rigidity in the system. We should end this coalition and go to the people at an appropriate moment.

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act is a constitutional aberration. It was cobbled together without pre-legislative review or proper national debate. It could and does result in zombie-government in the latter part of the term. Indeed it could conceivably lead to a Belgian situation of weak Government and weak Parliament. As is found around the world, it could and does lead to rigidity and angry calls by a disaffected public to extra-parliamentary activity. It actually leads to the growth of extremist fringe parties, as we are finding in our own country.

Children with Autism (Education)

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mark Hendrick]

The hon. Gentleman made some fairly serious allegations against the county council and I have received information from the county council that refutes those allegations. If he does not want to listen to that, that is a matter for him. If he wishes to leave the Chamber that is up to him, but I have every right to make these points.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. This debate is not about a county council; neither is it about party politics or opinions about party politics in a particular part of the country. It is a very serious debate on a serious issue that affects the whole country. So far, everyone who has spoken has been perfectly in order. If the hon. Gentleman who now holds the floor wishes to continue his speech, the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle), who has already held the floor for a considerable time, really ought to allow him to do so. He is in order.

[Mark Hendrick]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman will concur that I was totally in agreement with and sympathetic to the points he made with regard to Chloe Wold. If he is willing to listen to me when he agrees with me but not when he disagrees with me, that is a matter for him.

On the second of the three cases raised by the hon. Gentleman, the school that Jack Entwistle was offered is Pendle View primary school. I will not go into great detail about the expertise and everything else the school offers, but I will quote Ofsted:

“Those pupils who have additional sensory support also make excellent progress, often in short periods of time, because of the high quality and intense support they get.”

The local MP, the hon. Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), visited the school on Friday 15 November 2013. He toured the school and discussed the provision for pupils with special educational needs. He was very supportive and impressed with the work of the school and the specialisms that Lancashire county council provides for children with special educational needs at that school in particular. That gives the other side of the story about the school that Jack Entwistle was offered.

On the final case, Honey Crossley was offered a place at Broadfield specialist school, a Lancashire county council-maintained secondary school. Ofsted said:

“The school’s expertise in promoting learning for students with autism is extensively recognised and respected by many local schools.”

Although the hon. Member for Burnley did not mention this, I understand that he met the Minister—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I am listening very carefully and there is a dialogue going on between two Members of the House. This is a very serious and open debate about a general issue that affects hundreds of thousands of children throughout the whole country. The hon. Gentleman ought to be careful before he quotes another Member who has not said in the House today what he is about to quote him as saying. I warn the hon. Gentleman to be careful and to remain in order. If he wishes to take up a point that the hon. Member for Burnley has made, that is a different matter.

[Mark Hendrick]

I would make no attempt to address the hon. Member for Burnley other than through you, Madam Deputy Speaker, so it is not a dialogue in the way you indicated.

I will not quote from the Minister concerned. What I will say is that Lancashire county council has received correspondence from that Minister, who confirmed that Lancashire county council’s advice was that the appropriate way forward for parents was through SENDIST, the special educational needs and disability tribunal system, which is on offer to the constituents of the hon. Member for Burnley.

I think I have made the points that would have been made had other people been here for the debate.

Universal Postal Service

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Reid]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Am I right in saying that the procedures of the House are that an affirmative resolution requires a vote of the whole House, not just a vote in Committee?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Gentleman is correct, and it is interesting that he has taken the trouble to inform the House of that fact this afternoon. I thank him for that, but I point out that the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) has the Floor and will continue his speech.

[Mr Weir]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. What else could Ofcom do? It could look at section 46 of the 2011 Act, “Contributions for meeting burden”, which we have already discussed, and recommend that all competitors contribute to the cost of running the universal service. As Ofcom has pointed out, however, it is debarred from doing that for a period of five years unless the Minister specifically directs it. Even if the Minister were to direct it, how long would it take to set up such a system, set out the level of contribution, and get it up and running? If the universal service is now in such a condition that Royal Mail is worried about its continuation, do we have time to implement such proposals?

Under the Act, the Government might try to find a company other than Royal Mail that is willing to take on the universal service, but how many of us think that is likely given what we already know about the operation of other companies in the postal market? They are cherry-picking the profitable services, not building a system to compete with Royal Mail throughout the country.

Royal Mail suggests that the way forward is to introduce general universal service conditions that would impose conditions on its competitors to prevent them from cherry-picking urban routes, but also mean that they have to deliver to a much wider geographical area. Again, I leave it to Members to decide whether that is likely, but, even if it is, how long will it take to do that when we are told that we are facing an imminent crisis?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Weir]

No, I have had enough from the Liberals—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is not taking interventions. Hon. Members can ask once, perhaps twice, but three times is too many.

[Mr Weir]

I have already taken many interventions from the Liberal Democrat Benches.

Before any of those options can be taken, Ofcom has to make recommendations to the Secretary of State, who then decides whether action is necessary and what action should be taken. Only at that point will any part be played in the whole process by Parliament, perhaps many months if not years after the process has begun. Nothing is likely to happen before the general election, and all that time TNT and others will continue to expand, making it ever more difficult to construct a solution. As Ofcom points out in its briefing for this debate, the competitors have also made complaints about Royal Mail and some of its practices that they claim are unfair, so if this is opened up we run the risk that of all sorts of other things creeping in.

There seems to me to be a contradiction at the heart of the Postal Services Act. We have a private company that has to undertake the delivery of a vital public service, and the only way of enforcing that is through a regulator, about which I have an uneasy feeling given the way the railway industry operates. I believe we need to look further than that and consider wholesale changes to the Act to allow much faster action to protect the USO. I opposed the privatisation of Royal Mail; I still think it was a drastic error, but as the right hon. Member for Gordon (Sir Malcolm Bruce) has pointed out, in September the people of Scotland have a chance to do something about that and ensure that Royal Mail becomes a public service.

Technical and Vocational Education

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt]

The fact is that the number of starts for under-25s has gone down by 11,400. Ministers can rebadge their apprenticeships and reconfigure the figures as much as they like, but people in the country know that on apprenticeships, this lot are not to be believed. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman may be making points that are not amenable to those on the Government Benches, but he must be heard, no matter what he wants to say.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. To continue the Minister and shadow Minister’s theme of equal opportunity, rather than imposing a formal time limit on Back-Bench speeches, I thought that I might experiment with a voluntary limit and see whether Members can behave courteously. In order that everyone who wishes to speak has an equal opportunity so to do, it would be helpful if Members limited their remarks to seven minutes. If that does not work, I will impose a time limit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Members are tending to get As in rhetoric and Ds in arithmetic. Six minutes from now is 5.21 pm.

Points of Order

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance. We have had a blatant attempt by the Minister not to answer questions from Labour Members. I asked him specifically about the impact on Halton. I have just checked the figures, and—surprise, surprise—Halton is not included among the areas that will benefit. The Minister deliberately answered Government Members, but would not answer questions from Labour Members. That is a great disrespect to this House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Gentleman knows, as the House knows, that that is a continuation of the debate and not a point of order for the Chair. He has made his point, and I am sure the Minister has heard it.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We were told that the figures for our constituencies would be in the document, but I went to the Vote Office and they are not. We have only a list of 62 authorities that have benefited from the £350 million that has been announced today. Furthermore—this is important—the document states that there are implications for converging funding under one formula in the future. That clearly has serious consequences for the constituents of those of us who miss out, but we are not being told. We have a right to know.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order that in a serious debate on school funding, the shadow Minister behaves like a school bully in the playground—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I thought the hon. Gentleman was going to make a point of order further to that raised by the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford). That is not a point of order but rather a matter for me to deal with. I have dealt with it, and the shadow Minister has acknowledged that and apologised.

I fully appreciate that the hon. Member for Eltham is making a point about which he feels passionately, but it is not a matter on which the Chair can rule at this moment. The information given to the House by the Minister is a matter for him. He is here and hears the point. If he would care to respond to the point of order, I give him the opportunity to do so.

[Mr Laws]

I am delighted to confirm, as I made clear in my statement, that we have listed the authorities that are gaining from the changes we are making today. Authorities not on the list are not losing anything; they are protected.

[Derek Twigg]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has already made his point and it was not a point or order. This statement has run for three quarters of an hour and has now come to an end.

School Funding

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Nic Dakin]

There are a lot of 16 to 18-year-olds in schools.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. There should be one question and no comments from a sedentary position—not from a Whip.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. If Opposition Front Benchers insist on speaking, it should be sotto voce and not so that the House can hear exactly what the hon. Gentleman has said. He had his go at some length—at sufficient length, in my judgment.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

It is very interesting that the Minister is able to give the allocations that are relevant to Government Members, but not those that are relevant to Opposition Members. Will schools in Hull gain from his proposals?

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The whole House heard the hon. Gentleman’s remark from a sedentary position. An apology would be appropriate.

[Kevin Brennan]

Without reservation, I apologise.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for acting honourably and trust he will now be a little quieter.

[Sir Nick Harvey (North Devon) (LD)]

May I warmly welcome this significant step in the right direction? An extra £200 per pupil in Devon is a very welcome step. Of course, we still want to see a fair funding formula, but I recognise that the time to do it will probably be next year, when there is a comprehensive spending review. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that, in the event of a new Government being elected and not progressing with this next year, the extra moneys he has announced today will go permanently into the system and will not simply be a one-year deal?

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

A surprising last-minute entry, Mr Bill Wiggin.

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to the statement and hearing how my right hon. Friend is teasing Labour Members by not telling them their figures. Will he remember and reinforce the unfairness that we have had to put up with for so many years, and turn the knife by telling us how much Herefordshire is getting?

Cyber-bullying

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Before I call the next speaker, I ought to remind the House that we have another debate to follow, and I have received indications that, as with this debate, a large number of hon. Members wish to speak. If Members who are about to speak restrict their remarks to approximately 10 minutes, everyone who wishes to speak will have a chance to do so.