Protection from Redundancy (Pregnancy and Family Leave) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 21st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

It is an absolute pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain). I thank him for his contribution and his questions, which I will do my best to cover. If I do not, hopefully, we can cover them separately as we move forward.

I truly thank the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for bringing this important legislation forward. I thank, too, all of the Members who have spoken on this important matter today, including: the hon. Members for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain), for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), my hon. Friends the Members for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) and for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), my right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), with his incredibly powerful and moving comments, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson), my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), and the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows). I will come to some of the key points as I progress with my speech.

I wish to echo the thanks of the hon. Member for Barnsley Central to my predecessors. I often say that anyone who takes on these roles stands on the shoulders of giants. I am very fortunate to be building on the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt), whose work has been phenomenal, and my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), with whom I have worked closely and whose work has been even more phenomenal in helping us get to this point today.

My right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Beckenham and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet both predicted what I am about to say: I am pleased to confirm that the Government support the Bill. I look forward to working with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central in Committee. We have talked a lot about recruitment; he did an amazing job of recruiting many members to his Committee—hopefully more women than men, although I was not keeping count.

I am pleased to support the Bill from a personal perspective. I am the father to an inspirational daughter; the husband to an incredible and smart wife; the son to a loving and hardworking mother; my sister is a cancer survivor and has dealt with challenges with such kindness and strength; and I am an uncle to beautiful nieces. The Bill is trying to support women and girls for the future to feel true equality in their lives and in the workplace. It certainly signals that to them all.

The Bill is another example of how Parliament works so well together. When we support and challenge each other, we get the best legislation and we show the country that we are all compassionate and believe in getting the legislation right. That often means that things take a bit more time, but the trouble is the very small number of unscrupulous businesses. We heard moving comments from the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) about how when people think they can get away with things, sadly they do, and in some of the worst instances. Most businesses are honourable and do the right thing, but we have to ensure that there are no holes in the legislation, because those who want to get around doing the right thing will always find those holes. It is right that the legislation takes time and it is fabulous that we are discussing it.

I know what a crucial issue pregnancy and maternity discrimination truly is and the pernicious effect that it can have on both the immediate and longer term prospects for women in work. More generally, it puts a drag on equality and productivity. We heard earlier about the challenges not just to the workplace and to the economy but to mental health. The Bill will make a difference not just in the workplace but at home, so that people truly have a work-life balance. That means not having to worry about things that they should not need to worry about.

[Nickie Aiken]

It is important to provide women who are pregnant or on maternity leave with workplace protections. Do women trying to get pregnant by undergoing fertility treatment deserve the same employment rights as those who get pregnant naturally?

[Dean Russell]

My hon. Friend has done incredible work on her private Member’s Bill. Officials and I are looking at it very closely. I applaud her for her work not just on that but generally. She is a staunch, hardworking Member for her constituents. That is why I am pleased to be here and to have taken on this important portfolio, for as long as it may last—hopefully years rather than days.

Irrespective of who is at the Dispatch Box, the Government are committed to ensuring that the UK is the best place in the world to work and grow a business. We need a strong and flexible labour market that supports participation and economic growth. Let me put on record why the Government support the legislation. When we talk about female economic empowerment, we tend to talk about positive facilitative policies: parental leave and pay, flexible working, women on boards and so on—policies looking to drive positive action to achieve better outcomes.

We are taking huge strides to deliver equal opportunities for women in the UK. They include mandatory pay gap reporting, the largest ever cash increase in the national living wage in 2022 and passing the landmark Domestic Abuse Act 2021. It is pleasing to see that nearly 2 million more women are in work since 2010. The number of women on FTSE 350 company boards is up by over 50% in just five years. The number of women in FTSE 100 company boardroom roles has jumped to 39% from 12.5% 10 years ago. There is a higher percentage of women on FTSE 350 company boards than ever before. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West pointed out however, there are some very negative statistics that we need to address.

[Shaun Bailey]

I welcome my hon. Friend to his new position. When it comes to Ministers who should be in position, he is 1,000% one of them and I am so glad to see him in his place on the Front Bench. He has just pointed out that the statistics in other areas are not great: can he give a commitment that the Government are 100% determined to ensure that we get those stats up? The fact that in the legal profession only 28% of partners are women is not good enough. If 60% of employees are women but only 28% make partner, that is nowhere near enough.

[Dean Russell]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind comments. Equality is not just for the sake of equality: it improves things on every level—the economy, the workplace, the challenge in boardrooms and many other areas. I was pleased to hear my hon. Friend mention that 80% of his office staff are women, because that is a powerful example of how we in this place can lead from the front. We talked earlier about mental health. I have noticed in the past few years how people here have talked much more about mental health, and now it is talked about much more in the workplace and in society. That is a really important example of this House leading. I remember a few years ago in 2015 when I had a small role in helping to support, in a professional capacity, a report by the all-party parliamentary group on women in Parliament. It looked at how we could encourage more women into the workplace and, in particular, more women into politics. We need to have that at the front of our minds at all times.

On International Women’s Day in March this year, we announced a package of initiatives to help to open up more opportunities to women and to boost the post-pandemic recovery, including by promoting transparency and fairness in pay, ending employers asking about salary history, and supporting women who want to return to the science, technology, engineering and maths workforce. We have an extensive suite of parental leave and pay rights. Parents have access to a range of leave and pay entitlements in a child’s first year, giving working families more choice and flexibility about who cares for their child and when. Our maternity leave entitlement is also generous. To qualifying employed women we offer 52 weeks of maternity leave, of which 39 are paid, which is three times more than the EU minimum requirement. For self-employed women and those who are not eligible for statutory maternity pay, maternity allowance may be available. Both maternity payments are designed to provide a measure of financial security, to help women to stop working towards the end of their pregnancies and in the months after childbirth in the interests of their own and their babies’ health and wellbeing.

As well as the positive steps we can encourage or require employers to take, we need to clamp down on poor and inappropriate practices, such as waiting for a woman to return from maternity leave and for the current protected period to end, and then—terribly—making her redundant. That is just so wrong. We know that one of the key drivers of the gender pay gap is the time that women stay away from work. Ensuring that women are not needlessly forced out of the workplace is therefore an important way to tackle that inequality and maximise the economic contribution that women can make. As the hon. Member for Barnsley Central explained, the incidence of pregnancy and maternity discrimination, and the poor treatment of pregnant women and new mothers, is still far too high. That is unacceptable, and why the Bill is so important.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham—I cannot see him in his place but I am sure he will be listening elsewhere—asked whether the Government will produce guidance on pregnancy and maternity discrimination advisory boards. I will take that back to the Department, but there will be work to ensure that information is communicated far and wide so that both employers and employees are aware of those rights.

The hon. Member for Barnsley Central and others mentioned the German model. I am conscious that there is always a question whether we can push further and faster and do more. I definitely take his comments on board, but the Government do not think that it is right to follow the German model; I will happily follow up separately with specific details about why we do not agree with going that far. However, there is merit in how the Bill takes definite strides in that direction.

The personal stories told today have been really powerful. Emily and Natasha have been mentioned; my condolences and thoughts are with them after the challenges that they have faced. I hope that the hon. and gallant Member’s work today will ensure that what happened to them is not repeated. The hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn spoke about the discrimination during pregnancy that her friends faced, which was a really powerful way of bringing to life why the Bill is so important.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West asked about cultural change. As he alluded to in his intervention just now, this is a societal thing. We can change things through legislation, but it is often much better to ensure that we change things in society. The Bill should be the backstop rather than being front and centre for businesses—they should just do the right thing.

My hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough did an excellent job, both as my predecessor and in her comments today. I commend her for ensuring that we have moved in the right direction with the Bill. As the hon. Member for Bradford East said, getting collaboration around the table on amendments—never mind getting a private Member’s Bill agreed by the Government—is an immense achievement, and my predecessor has kept the Bill on the table.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster made the point that it is so essential to ensure that women can continue to pursue their career. Nobody should feel that wanting to have a family should end their career. That should never be the situation in the 21st century, or any century. We need to go full force on this.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet spoke about economic activity. She made the point that this is not just about being nice and doing the right thing; it has a substantial impact on the bottom line and on this country’s economy.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield—I should call him my hon. Friend, but I am sure he will be my right hon. Friend at some point; he is always right honourable to me—was so eloquent, as always. He always hits the nail on the head. He made the important point that if we retain women we can also navigate the challenges of skills shortages. That is so important, especially when we consider that there are almost 1 million roles available. Let us make sure that we promote all opportunities to all people.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw spoke so eloquently about the challenges that she faced many decades ago. Hopefully, many of them have since been addressed in legislation, but the Bill will take things even further.

I note the point that the hon. Member for Bradford East raised about tribunal time limits. The Government recognise that there are concerns that in certain circumstances the three-month time limit for bringing Equality Act-based cases to tribunal may not feel long enough. In July 2019 we ran a public consultation on whether the limit should be extended; the positive impact that such a change could have is clear from the responses that we received. The Government response, which was published in July 2021, committed to

“look closely at extending the time limit for bringing Equality Act 2010 based cases to the employment tribunal”.

We continue to consider the evidence for doing so, and we understand the positive impact that it will ultimately have.

In conclusion, these measures will provide invaluable support and protection for parents during what should be an exciting and joyous time—pregnancy and the start of their child’s life—as they juggle work and caring responsibilities. The extension of MAPLE to pregnancy in a period of return to work is backed by evidence and analysis. The Government’s and the EHRC’s research, and the work of the Women and Equalities Committee and others, have established that there is a clear need for further work to help parents at these times. We must take steps to tackle the discrimination and poor treatment that some undoubtedly face.

The Government are pleased to support the Bill. It is wholly in line with our ongoing commitment to support workers and build a high-skilled, high-productivity, high-wage economy. We look forward to continuing to work with the hon. Member for Barnsley Central and, of course, all the new Committee members who are in the Chamber today to support the Bill.

Exclusivity Terms for Zero Hours Workers (Unenforceability and Redress) Regulations 2022

Dean Russell Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2022 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Exclusivity Terms for Zero Hours Workers (Unenforceability and Redress) Regulations 2022.

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson.

The draft regulations, which were laid before the House on 6 July 2022, will make exclusivity terms unenforceable in contracts that entitle workers to earn net average weekly wages that do not exceed the lower earnings limit—currently £123 a week—ensuring that that such workers are not restricted by exclusivity terms. It will give such workers the right to take on additional employment without being subjected to detriment and—applicable only to employees—unfair dismissal.

The measures we are introducing will increase participation in the labour market and, together with our agenda to boost productivity, will drive higher employment, wages and economic growth. We want to give businesses the confidence to hire and retain workers and to provide their workforce with the skills and experience they need to progress in work. We want to put more power into the hands of individuals and businesses to find and create work that suits their personal circumstances, and we want to enable workers to reskill so they can make the most of the economic opportunities and to best deploy themselves to drive growth and productivity in the economy.

During the cost of living crisis, we will continue to protect vulnerable workers. The measures will help to ensure that low-income workers can boost their incomes with additional work should they so wish. That builds on the support we have given to many workers during the cost of living crisis: in April, we raised the national living wage to £9.50, equivalent to a pay rise of more than £1,000 for a full-time worker; we gave 1.7 million families an extra £1,000 a year on average through our cut to the universal credit taper and increased work allowances; and a new in-work progression offer will mean that 2.1 million low-paid workers on universal credit will be able to access personalised work coach support to help them increase their earnings. The reforms reflect the Government’s ongoing commitment to protect and enhance workers’ rights across the country.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

The Minister is typically generous in giving way. There is some concern that exclusivity terms are unenforceable under the lower earnings limit. Why have the Government chosen that route and not, for example, that of the European Union directive on transparent and predictable working conditions?

[Dean Russell]

I will come to that point later. I do intend to respond.

I will take a moment to walk through what the draft regulations do. This statutory instrument will extend the protections in the Exclusivity Terms in Zero Hours Contracts (Redress) Regulations 2015. The existing regulations make exclusivity terms unenforceable in zero-hours contracts where previously they were banned from doing work under any other contract or arrangement, or barred from doing so without the employer’s consent. We are making further revisions to extend the protection to individuals who work under workers’ contracts and earn less than or equal to the lower earnings limit, ensuring that they may take on additional work to boost their income should they wish to do so.

The draft regulations will also extend to those workers the right to redress, so that they have the right not to be subjected to any detriment by a non-compliant employer. If they breach an exclusivity clause in their contract, that will be subject to the regulations. For employees, any dismissal for that reason will be regarded as unfair. All workers subject to any detriment will have the right to bring a claim or a complaint to an employment tribunal.

A second, separate statutory instrument subject to the negative procedure will be laid in Parliament after the draft regulations are approved. That is necessary to make the right to bring a claim under the regulations subject to early conciliation, which is a requirement set out in the Employment Tribunals Act 1996. That separate statutory instrument will mean that a prospective claimant wishing to take a case to the employment tribunal must first contact the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service about their dispute and consider conciliation before presenting a claim to the employment tribunal. The second SI will also amend the regulations to extend the time limit for making a claim to consider this application of early conciliation.

The provisions of the 2015 regulations make unenforceable exclusivity terms in zero-hours contracts, but they do not cover such contracts where only one hour or limited hours are guaranteed, which leaves some of the most vulnerable workers in our society subject to exclusivity terms while their weekly income is low. Those low-income workers are significantly more likely than the average worker to want to undertake additional work.

In recent years, we have seen a rise in the use of short-term variable hours contracts. That has been very positive for some people, with the flexibility on offer helping those with other commitments stay in work or get back into the labour market. For others, such contracts have resulted in a level of unpredictability that has made it difficult to plan their lives effectively or have the financial security they need. We want to protect those who are most in need and address inequality, so that everyone has the opportunity to participate in a labour market, enjoy a fulfilling working life and make a living, especially during a cost of living crisis.

The Government consulted on the policy in the regulations between December 2020 and February 2021. The consultation generated 30 formal responses from a range of legal organisations and professionals, along with trade unions, academics, local government and equalities groups. Overall, responses showed wide support for our policy proposals to extend the range of contracts in which exclusivity clauses should be made unenforceable.

An estimated 1.5 million workers receive a weekly wage that is below the lower earnings limit in their main job. The reforms will ensure that workers in that group that have exclusivity clauses are able to top up their income with extra work if they choose. Workers will have more flexibility in when and where they work to best suit their personal circumstances and commitments, such as childcare or study, including the option of working multiple short-hours contracts.

Businesses will benefit from a widening of the talent pool of job applicants to include those who would have otherwise been prevented from applying for roles due to exclusivity clauses with another employer. The reforms could also create more opportunities for low-paid workers to reskill as they take on additional work where desired, allowing individuals to make the most of new opportunities in existing sectors with growing labour demand, as well as in emerging sectors and occupations.

The Government want to ensure that businesses and individuals can make the most of the opportunities in our flexible and dynamic UK labour market to generate long-term economic growth and prosperity. The reforms will help us deliver on the ambition to make the UK the best place in the world to work and do business by putting more power into the hands of individuals and businesses to find and create work that suits their personal circumstances. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dean Russell]

I genuinely thank all hon. Members for their valuable contributions to this debate. When I was at university, I worked on what we would now call a zero-hours contract, doing as-and-when work. As such, I totally understand the challenges that people face with this, which is one the reasons for these reforms. People on the lowest incomes being told that they cannot work elsewhere is just wrong, and these regulations go towards rectifying that. I appreciate that there is always a desire to go further and faster, and I hear that, but hopefully we are all in agreement that we are heading in the right direction with these regulations.

I will come to employment Bill later. I brought in a private Member’s Bill that would have been part of that employment Bill—the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill—and I am very proud of that. I recently became the Minister with responsibility for this area. There are great things happening, but I will address those later in my speech.

I hope I can cover most of the responses to the excellent questions during the debate. If I do not, I will absolutely write back. I know the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston is a regular writer of parliamentary questions. I always enjoy reading and responding to them, so I thank him very much.

The points that have been raised demonstrate the need for the regulations and the broad support for introducing them. The Government are intent on driving higher employment, wages and economic growth. The implementation of these regulations will support this aim by building more flexibility into the labour market and putting powers into the hands of individuals and businesses to find and create work that suits them and their personal circumstances. Short-hours contracts can provide a necessary level of flexibility for individuals, allowing them to work around other commitments such as study or childcare. The flexibility provided by short-hours contracts, including as zero-hours contracts, is something we know that the majority of these workers enjoy and, therefore, this should be protected.

This proposal will allow individuals to work multiple short-hours contracts, allowing them to boost their income while maintaining the level of flexibility required for their personal circumstances. A dynamic and flexible labour market will help us retain and attract talent, while fostering a diverse and inclusive workforce. The talent pool of job applicants will widen, as those who have been prevented from applying for jobs by another employer will help businesses to fill vacancies in key sectors and provide employment opportunities in marginalised areas. This more flexible market encourages an upskilling of workers and allows a match to be made between individuals and work which best uses their skills, which will drive higher employment, wages and economic growth. The culmination of these factors will contribute to the commitment we are making to ensure that the UK is the best place in the world to work.

There can be good reasons for employers using exclusivity clauses to protect the interests of their business. Although I am aware of the concerns that have been raised, some employers use exclusivity clauses to ensure that high-level company information remains confidential. However, we believe that employers should equally respect the right of a worker to earn a living, particularly where guaranteed earnings are low.

Returning to the points made in the debate, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston voiced about the lack of Government action to deliver on the manifesto commitment to create a right to request a more predictable contract. The Government remain committed to doing this. The right will allow a qualifying worker to make an application to change their existing working pattern if it lacks predictability in the hours that they are required to work, the times that they are required to work, and the duration of the contract. I will gladly follow up with more detail, if that would be helpful.

The hon. Gentleman also mentioned preventing one-sided flexibility and increasing business power over employees. We totally recognise that one-sided flexibility is a problem and that a minority of employers may misuse flexible working arrangements. We held a consultation inviting views on tackling challenges related to non-guaranteed hours; we are currently analysing the results and will respond in due course. Again, I am happy to follow up once that is available.

The hon. Gentleman also raised concerns about the continued absence of an employment Bill. As I said earlier, I have been forging my own way with my private Member’s Bill on tips, and there are many other relevant PMBs. I am afraid this is a very similar answer to the one I gave before, but hopefully he does not mind a repeat—sometimes they are good on TV. The Queen’s Speech set out a packed and ambitious legislative programme, which includes a comprehensive set of Bills that enable us to deliver on priorities such as growing the economy, which will in turn help to address living costs and get people into good jobs.

[Chris Stephens]

The Minister is being typically generous in giving way. I was on the Bill Committee for his tips Bill, which is a good measure. His predecessor gave a commitment that an employment Bill would be in the last Queen’s Speech, but it was not. Given the strong and stable Government who we have at the moment, can the Minister tell me in which King’s Speech we will see an employment Bill?

[Dean Russell]

I appreciate the intervention and the diligence with which the hon. Gentleman follows Government process and Conservative manifestos. Of course, there is still a desire to introduce an employment Bill, but a lot of the activity that would have been in such a Bill is coming forward. A neonatal private Member’s Bill is currently in play, and there is some really great work going on in that space. I hear him and will feed back the comments, but we are forging ahead in a positive way. I too was disappointed that the Queen’s Speech did not include an employment Bill, but we remain committed to delivering our as many of our commitments on employment as parliamentary time allows. As I say, numerous private Members’ Bills on employment rights have been introduced as a result of PMB ballots in the Commons. Wherever possible, there is a keenness to support those that are aligned with the goals of the Government..

The hon. Members for Glasgow South West and for Ellesmere Port and Neston both asked why the draft regulations are not being extended further, and I understand their views. Ultimately, the intention is to ensure that low-paid workers who are not able to secure the number of hours they would like from their current employer are able to seek additional work elsewhere. The lower earnings limit is set each tax year by the Government and is an established marker of a low-paid worker. Using the lower earnings limit will also ensure that the threshold remains relevant. Setting the threshold at the level of the lower earnings limit balances the needs of various businesses while protecting the most vulnerable workers and enabling them to boost their income where required.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the Minister for providing some explanation. Can he say a bit more about why the needs of those businesses mean that the level is set at where it is now?

[Dean Russell]

Obviously they are wide-ranging, but a good example would be that if someone is working in an company where the information that they are working on is sensitive and there is a major competitor, that would be a challenge for exclusivity. A company would not want that worker to go and work for a competitor.

[Justin Madders]

I suggest that the general confidentiality duty in contracts of employment ought to cover those sorts of situations. I urge the Minister to look again at that as a reason not to extend the scope.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that point, but I suppose that in some instances it would be a bit like somebody working in the Conservative party and also in the Labour party. We can see the slight conflict there.

[Chris Stephens]

Not a conflict at all.

[Dean Russell]

Well, the news is that the SNP and Labour are going to form a coalition, so perhaps I am wrong to use that example.

[Chris Stephens]

We are ready to serve.

[Dean Russell]

What I would say is that the EU regulations provide for a wholesale exclusivity clause in all contracts, whereas we believe that, in some instances, exclusivity clauses are needed for businesses to protect business interests, allowing them to continue to generate economic growth. If it is helpful, I will come back to Members with some more precise examples for reference.

To move on—I am conscious of time; I know people normally like these Committees to run quickly, but this is an important statutory instrument—concerns were raised about the announcement from His Majesty’s Treasury about additional requirements for the lowest paid universal credit claimants, who would face having their benefits reduced if they did not meet them. With our changes to exclusivity clauses, we want to help people on low incomes to secure more and better paid work, to provide a valuable income boost for vulnerable and low-paid workers. That will help universal credit claimants to meet those new earning requirements and keep their benefits.

There was a question about when we will lay the subsequent legislation. We plan to lay the associated negative statutory instrument as soon as possible, following the successful passage of these regulations.

[Chris Stephens]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dean Russell]

I hope the hon. Gentleman will not mind if I do not. I think I have been quite generous and friendly to all sides.

We plan to lay that SI as soon as we can, with a view to the policy coming into force later this year. I can update Members when we have a firm date.

I hope I have covered all the questions, but if I have not, I will gladly follow up in writing. I thank everyone here today. I commend these draft regulations to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Exclusivity Terms for Zero Hours Workers (Unenforceability and Redress) Regulations 2022.

Fuel Poverty in Manchester Gorton

Dean Russell Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Afzal Khan) on securing this important debate. His wider engagement on the matter clearly demonstrates his commitment to his constituents in Gorton, to Manchester and to those households facing financial challenge more widely across the UK. I thank him for that. I understand the challenges that people face when they are severely cold in their own homes. I remember how, when I was a student—I am not trying to create a comparison—and our heating had gone, I had to sleep at night with jeans and tracksuit bottoms on just to try to keep warm. This is a very real issue for people, and at the heart of all of this we must remember the individuals facing these challenges. I was pleased to see his humanity come through in his speech. I welcome our engagement on the debate, because this is truly an important matter.

I also thank the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith) for his contribution. I remember fondly our time co-chairing the all-party parliamentary group on mental health. I know of his passion for people and, in particular, as was alluded to, the mental health impact of fuel poverty, especially as we hit the cold of the winter months.

I assure the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton that fuel poverty remains a key concern for the Government. Recent increases in energy prices and the cost of living are having a significant impact on all households, but we know that many low-income households were already struggling. I assure him that the Government are taking the situation very seriously and have already taken action to support many of those in greatest need.

I thank everyone who has spoken for sharing their experience today. For all the reasons discussed, the Government are committed to tackling fuel poverty and supporting households in both the short and long term. This winter we are focusing on how best to help those struggling to keep their homes warm against the backdrop of high energy bills and cost of living pressures. That is why the Government are providing direct support to households. The energy price guarantee and the energy bill relief scheme are supporting millions of households and businesses with rising energy costs, and the Chancellor made clear they will continue to do so until April next year.

Those recent announcements are in addition to the wider support to help households with the impacts of unprecedented global gas price rises set out earlier in the year. Most households will be impacted in some way by high energy prices. That is why the Government are providing support through the energy bill support scheme, which provides a £400 discount for around 29 million households. I reassure the hon. Gentleman that that will no doubt help many of his constituents and reassure them.

However, we recognise that not all households will be impacted equally and that we need to ensure targeted support is available to those who need it most. That is why, in May, the Government announced a support package to combat the increased cost of living. This support is targeted particularly at those with the greatest need, providing 8 million of the most vulnerable households with up to £1,200 of support in instalments across the year. That includes support for those on means-tested benefits, older households who are more vulnerable to the cold, and households requiring disability support who may have higher energy costs as a result. Further help is available for low-income and more vulnerable households through established schemes such as the winter fuel payment, the cold weather payment and the warm home discount. The warm home discount has been extended to 2025-26 and expanded to support 750,000 more households, while increasing rebates to £150. We have also reformed the scheme in England and Wales to provide more rebates automatically and to better target households in fuel poverty.

As well as immediate support to help households stay warm this winter, improving the energy efficiency of homes —this was mentioned by the hon. Gentleman in his excellent speech and in interventions—remains the best long-term solution to reducing energy bills and, therefore, tackling fuel poverty in a more sustainable and long-term way. Energy efficiency improvements can help make it cheaper and easier to heat a home, enabling warmer, safer homes with reduced carbon emissions. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the floods in Pakistan. They had a dramatic impact on many people in my constituency of Watford, where there was a fundraiser for the many friends and family members who were impacted by the floods. Climate change is a huge issue for us all and the Government are committed to tackling it.

The energy company obligation is delivering measures across Great Britain. ECO4, the current iteration of the scheme, which runs until 2026, has an increased value of £1 billion per year. In Gorton, up to March 2022, over 10,700 households had been in receipt of ECO measures. I believe that that is in the upper scale of communities across the UK who have received them. That help is ensuring long-lasting, sustained improvements are available for those households.

We have also recently announced energy efficiency support through ECO Plus, which will help hundreds of thousands of households reduce their energy bills. ECO Plus will be worth £1 billion and deliver an average household saving of around £280 per year, with at least half of the support directly targeted at the most vulnerable, which is where we are really making sure that we are supporting as best we can. The local authority delivery scheme is prioritising homes with some of the lowest energy efficiency ratings. More than 200 local authorities took part in phase 1 of the scheme and participation increased further through phase 2. The first phase of LAD led to 560 homes being upgraded in Greater Manchester and more than 630 homes have been upgraded in phase 2.

The social housing decarbonisation fund will upgrade a significant amount of social housing stock to an energy performance certification rating of C. The total sum committed for that fund and associated demonstrator is more than £1 billion. Manchester City Council received around £3 million in grant funding to upgrade around 90 homes under the SHDF demonstrator, and Greater Manchester Combined Authority received around £10.5 million in grant funding in SHDF wave 1 to upgrade 1,286 homes. The engagement of local authorities, energy companies, industry and the local community and support sector has been pivotal in delivering those schemes and will remain essential. I thank everyone for their continued commitment.

I thank the hon. Gentleman, in particular, for raising this issue. This is such an important debate, but hopefully, when his constituents hear about it—he will no doubt share the video or the Hansard entry—they will note the number of schemes available to them, which will help to reassure them about the support that is available. We are trying to ensure that, at the heart of Government, we provide support to those who are struggling with their energy bills and energy costs, and particularly to those who are in fuel poverty, which is a key part of this. I also reassure them that, although there are challenges, and I appreciate the concerns that they may have—we mentioned mental health earlier—help is out there. I am sure that if his constituents write to him, they will get guidance on where to find that support. Finally, I thank him and the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington for their excellent points and for raising this issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Scottish Devolution Settlement: Retained EU Law

Dean Russell Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray. I have to say, I have quite enjoyed this debate. I will respond to as many of the questions as possible. Given the fact that the Leader of the Opposition is likely to push to form a coalition with the SNP, I do not quite know how the divide that has been so clearly created today will be filled.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) on securing this important debate. I am grateful to him for the opportunity to debate this very important topic ahead of the Second Reading of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill. I look forward to continuing discourse with him, his SNP colleagues and others during the passage of the Bill. I intend to cover as many of the points raised by the hon. Members for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) as possible.

I will start with a clear message: the Government are absolutely committed to the devolution settlements and to safeguarding the Union. It is our mission to deliver economic prosperity for every citizen in every part of the UK. As my colleagues are undoubtedly aware, the Government are committed to devolution and to working collaboratively and constructively with the devolved Governments. That is the way to deliver better outcomes for citizens across the UK. The people of Scotland rightly expect both the UK and Scottish Governments to work together and focus on the issues that really matter to them.

We have the backdrop of the war in Ukraine and global economic slowdown, which has created incredible challenges for the UK—for Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish citizens. The Government are committed to working towards economic and legislative solutions that work for the whole of the UK. Accordingly, the Government remain fully committed to the Sewel convention and the associated practices for seeking consent for the devolved legislatures.

Retained EU law, the subject of today’s debate, was brought on to the statute book as a bridging measure to ensure continuity as we left the European Union. It was never intended to sit on the statue book indefinitely. Its existence has created legislative anomalies that we must now address. On 31 January, the Government announced plans to bring forward the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill. It is a culmination of the Government’s journey to untangle ourselves from nearly 50 years of EU membership, and it will provide the tools for the Government to fully realise the benefits of Brexit. We realise that those benefits for citizens are paramount, especially for businesses across all four great nations of the UK.

[Alan Brown]

Can the Minister actually explain the brilliant benefits of untangling the UK from EU legislation? What are those benefits?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for asking that very clear question. There are many benefits. In fact, on the EU dashboard there are over 2,500 pieces of legislation that we can start to look at. The key point of this Bill is to create a framework to enable us to look forward at how we can get the best out of Brexit. It will affect every citizen across the UK, and the Bill will make sure that we are covering that. I will come to points raised earlier, if I may.

[Alan Brown]

I thank the Minister for giving way again; I appreciate it. Please will he name one EU law that will be abolished that will benefit the lives of my constituents in Kilmarnock and Loudoun?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for that question. The key point about the Bill today is to talk about the framework, and what we are trying to ensure is that as the framework goes through, we will then be able to look at the individual pieces of regulation and legislation—all of those pieces that will then be looked at.

There are many, many, many, but I will not be drawn on the specifics today, because it is, of course, important that the conversation happens for the UK Government, the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Government, to make sure that we are getting the right output from this, and it would be wrong of me to pre-empt that. However, I am sure that within the coming weeks and months we will have lots of conversations, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will himself be listening to many of them in the coming years.

[Alan Brown]

I will be listening.

[Dean Russell]

Thank you.

The Bill will abolish the constitutional and outdated special status that retained EU law currently has on our statute book by 31 December 2023. It will empower the UK and devolved Governments to amend, repeal and replace their retained EU law more quickly. It will also include a sunset date by which all remaining retained EU law will either be repealed or, if a decision is made to keep it, stripped of interpretive provisions associated with retained EU law, and assimilated. I noted the comment of the hon. Member for Glasgow North, being a fellow “Star Trek” fan; although I disagree with his analogy, I understood the concept of the Borg, which probably has not been mentioned in Parliament very often. The key point is that any retained EU law that we keep will be assimilated into domestic law.

The Bill will enable the Government and, where appropriate, the devolved Governments to take back control of the UK statute book. The powers in the Bill will enable swift reform of the laws—more than 2,500 in total—derived from the UK’s membership of the EU. Many of those laws are outdated; some are even inoperable or not fit for the UK’s economic circumstances. That is why reform is needed.

Without the Bill, there is a risk that retained EU law becomes an immutable category of law on the statute book. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 preserved EU laws as if they had effect in domestic law immediately before the end of the transition period following the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. It is manifestly sensible that we all have the power to repeal or reform those laws and that we do so without delay.

[Patrick Grady]

Surely the point is that if this Parliament has regained sovereignty, in the way that the Brexiteers claimed it has, it has that power and can do it on a case-by-case, piece-by-piece basis, as people come forward with allegedly sensible improvements to the retained EU law. Having the end of next year as a sunset clause is just completely arbitrary; it is not necessary. The whole point of the Brexit case, as I understood it, was that this Parliament could take its time and assert its sovereignty, and change these hangover regulations as and when it saw fit, and not with an arbitrary sunset clause.

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for his comments, but no—we need to make sure that there is certainty on this issue. Having that date is absolutely essential to make sure that we are working towards it and ensuring that there is commonality in the way we work across these regulations and laws. Ultimately, however, this is what the British people—people across the United Kingdom—voted for. I appreciate that saying that may open up a whole load of new interventions, so I will hesitate to go down that rabbit hole.

This Bill will provide both the UK Government and the devolved Governments with the powers to amend, repeal and replace these laws more quickly and more easily than before. It will enable the devolved Governments to establish a more nimble, innovative and UK-specific regulatory approach, in order to go further and faster to seize the opportunities of Brexit.

The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute mentioned devolved Governments quite a few times and I understand the reasons for that. I just want to make it absolutely clear, and I will reiterate this because it is so important, that the decisions for those in devolved Governments to make—the choice to preserve, amend or repeal retained EU law in their areas—are theirs to make. I will come on to this again a bit later in my comments.

The measures in the Bill are UK-wide. This will ensure that citizens and businesses across all four nations of the UK are able to realise the benefits of Brexit. Nothing in our proposed legislation affects the devolution settlements. The proposed legislation will not restrict the competence of either the devolved legislatures or the devolved Governments. In fact, the powers in the Bill will give the devolved Governments greater flexibility to decide how they should regulate those areas that are currently governed by retained EU law in the future.

[Ian Murray]

rose—

[Brendan O'Hara]

rose—

[Dean Russell]

I give way to the hon. Member for Edinburgh South.

[Ian Murray]

Perhaps the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O'Hara) wants to make the same point. The Minister is refusing to give us examples, so let us give him an example and he can tell us whether it would be allowable. Say food regulations were reduced and chlorinated chicken in this country was allowed. What would stop a Scottish supermarket selling chlorinated chicken even if the Scottish Government, under those rules, would not allow that to happen in terms of their food safety responsibilities under devolution?

[Dean Russell]

I shall assume that the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute wanted to make the same point. To be absolutely clear, the premise of the Bill is to enable the conversations to happen among the UK Government and the devolved Governments and to enable us to look at the best way to ensure that we have very high standards in our approach around a whole load of areas. It is not about trying to reduce the quality of food or any of those things. The UK has always had very high standards. I will come to that later in my speech.

[Brendan O'Hara]

rose—

[Dean Russell]

I want to make progress if I may, because I will come to those points—

[Brendan O'Hara]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[Dean Russell]

Okay, I will take an intervention, but I am going to come to those points later.

[Brendan O'Hara]

The Minister has failed to answer the question, which is very specific. He talks about conversations being had, but this is not about conversations. It is about where decision making and power lie. If the Scottish Parliament decided that chlorinated chicken was banned, but the UK Parliament decided that chlorinated chicken was okay, what would stop chlorinated chicken appearing on supermarket shelves in Scotland? That is a very specific question.

[Dean Russell]

I take the intervention. The key point here is that this is about the Bill, and the conversations between the UK Government, through devolution, with the Scottish Government and others are yet to be had. We have to have those conversations, and the Bill will enable them to be had and to look at how we put those regulations in place. The idea that the UK is somehow going to start to reduce quality with respect to food or any other area is a rehash of old, proven-to-be-untrue Brexit arguments, and it is not the case here. I am going to make progress and I will come to some of those points later.

The majority of the powers in the Bill will be conferred on the devolved Governments. Conferring those powers will provide the devolved Governments with the tools to reform retained EU law in areas of devolved competence. That will enable the Scottish Government to make active decisions about the retained EU law that is within their devolved competence, for the benefit of citizens and businesses throughout Scotland. When using the powers of the Bill, the Government will use the appropriate mechanisms, such as the common frameworks, to engage with the devolved Governments. That will enable us to take account of wider context and allow for joined-up decision making across the UK.

The Government believe that a sunset provision is the quickest and most effective way to remove or amend all retained EU law on the UK statute book. That will incentivise genuine reform of retained EU law. The reform is needed, and it will help to drive economic growth. It will also enable us to capitalise on the rich vein of opportunity afforded to us via Brexit.

The sunset provision will of course not include Acts of Parliament, or indeed Acts of the devolved legislatures. It is right that an Act that has received proper parliamentary scrutiny should be the highest law of the land. Most retained EU law, however, sits on our statute book as a constitutional anomaly—somewhere between primary legislation and secondary, neither here nor there. It never received proper parliamentary scrutiny, and unless we actively want it, it ought to be removed.

The power to preserve specified pieces of retained EU law will also be conferred on the devolved Governments. That will enable the Scottish Government to decide which retained EU law they wish to preserve and assimilate, and which they wish to allow to sunset within their devolved competence.

[Brendan O'Hara]

Will the Minister give way?

[Dean Russell]

I will take one more intervention.

[Brendan O'Hara]

Time is pressing, so I appreciate the Minister giving way. Given what he has just said, will he confirm now that should the Scottish Government decide to preserve all retained EU law, that would be respected and upheld by the Government here at Westminster?

[Dean Russell]

I will come to that later, so the hon. Gentleman will get his answer. Ultimately, we are saying that where there is devolved competence and where there is engagement on that, absolutely we will work together on it.

I want to assure the House that the Government are committed to ensuring that the Bill works for all parts of the UK. We have carefully considered how it will impact each of the four nations, in close discussion with the devolved Governments, and it is of paramount importance that our legislatures function in a way that makes certain that we can continue to work together as one.

The Government recognise the importance of ensuring that the Bill is consistent with the devolved arrangements, and we remain committed to respecting the devolution settlements and the Sewel convention. Indeed, the Business Secretary has made that commitment clear in his engagement with Scotland’s Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, Angus Robertson. The Government have sought legislative consent from the devolved legislatures for the provisions in the Bill that engage the legislative consent motion process. Both I and the Business Secretary look forward to engaging with the devolved Governments on the process of seeking legislative consent as the Bill progresses through Parliament. Alongside that, the Business Secretary and I remain committed to engaging with our devolved counterparts as the Bill moves through. We will work together to address any concerns and ensure that the Bill works for all parts of the UK.

The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute asked about devolved settlements. We are not changing the constitutional settlement. The Scottish Government will still have control of areas within devolved competence, including food standards. On workers’ rights, the UK has one of the best records on workers’ rights—those high standards were never dependent on the EU—and we intend to continue them. Environmental protections will not be weakened. We want to ensure that environmental law is fit for purpose and able to drive improved environmental outcomes.

[Ian Murray]

The Minister has been hugely generous in taking interventions—he is a friendly Minister—but he is not quite answering the questions. He is pretending to answer the questions, but is not quite doing so. Let me give him a practical example. Before 31 December 2023, the EU law on food standards is revoked. The UK Government decide that chlorinated chicken is allowed into our food system in this country—currently, under EU retained law, it is not—and the Scottish Government, under their food standards devolved powers, decide that they will not allow that to happen. What happens? Do we end up with chlorinated chicken in Scotland? Or, with the Scottish Parliament having made that decision, will there be no chlorinated chicken on the shelves of Scottish supermarkets?

[Dean Russell]

To be clear, as I understand it, the preservation will be respected. If the Scottish Government want to preserve legislation within their competency, the UK will respect it. I think there is clarity on that. I am happy to write to hon. Members to confirm in more detail, but that is my understanding of the Bill. The premise at the moment is that we have to make sure that we get the Bill through to enable those activities to happen—to enable the work between the Governments and to deliver on those benefits for our citizens and businesses.

On food standards, the Government made a clear manifesto commitment that, in all trade negotiations, we will not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards. In any case, that is always going to be a high bar that we will deliver on.

The hon. Member for Argyll and Bute asked about impact assessments. There will be an impact assessment of the measures in the Bill during the passage of the Bill. The Bill is an enabling Bill. Further work will be done by Departments, while reviewing specific rules. That is why I am not getting drawn into specifics, because this is the framework for those conversations to be had and those conversations will then have impact assessments aligned to them.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun made some comments about sewage. I want to be clear: we will not weaken protections. The UK is a world leader in environmental protections and we are committed to delivering our legally binding targets to halt nature’s decline by 2030. The Government have a clear environmental and climate goals set out in the 25-year environment plan and the net zero strategy. Any changes to environmental regulation will need to support the goals. This whole nonsense is repeatedly put out—that somehow we have voted as a Government to put more sewage in waterways. We have put more protections in place to stop it happening and we are the first Government to do that in decades. We have to be really clear in the accuracy of the language we use in Parliament. We have not voted to do that; we have actually improved measures around the environment.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North—I consider him a friend and would address him as my honourable friend—asked about the Public Bill Committee. I cannot say at the moment whether there will be a PBC or not. I am sure that will be decided in a matter of weeks.

For me, this is about ensuring that we help growth and that businesses can focus on doing business and not filling out forms. Ultimately, we need to ensure that individuals across the country know where they stand and that when they vote for their parliamentarian—their MP—they know that they have the right to change the rules and the law and do not have to wait for unelected bureaucrats elsewhere to do so.

The Bill is an essential piece of legislation. It will enable all four nations of the UK to capitalise on the regulatory autonomy offered by our departure from the EU and fully realise the opportunities of Brexit. I hope that I have been able to demonstrate in this debate that the Government are committed to devolution and working collaboratively and constructively with the devolved Governments. We need to make sure we are moving on and that the UK has the ability to make the laws that we were elected to do. We have an opportunity collectively to seize the opportunities of Brexit and cement ourselves as a leader in the global world.

[Brendan O'Hara]

I thank everyone who has taken part this morning. What we lacked in numbers we certainly made up for in quality. I thank the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady), my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), and even the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), who, despite his best efforts to go on a fishing expedition very early on this Tuesday morning, will have noticed that I and my colleagues are far too long in the tooth to bite, particularly this early in the morning.

I thank the Minister for what he said. I am delighted that he confirmed that, should the Scottish Government decide to preserve all retained EU law, that would be respected and upheld by the Government here in Westminster. But nothing that he has said has altered the fact that on the rights and protections—

[Dean Russell]

I just want to be clear on the wording that the hon. Member used. I said that if the Scottish Government want to preserve all areas within their competency, the UK Government will respect that. I want to be clear that that is what was being repeated back.

[Brendan O'Hara]

Okay—as we dance on the head of a pin this early in the morning. What it does not change is the fact that our rights and protections that we have enjoyed for 40-odd years in the areas of food standards, animal welfare and environmental protections are under threat. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun says, why would the Government legislate to ensure that we cannot get access to the biggest market in the world sitting on our doorstep? Nothing the Minister has said changes my position that they are coming for our Parliament. The sooner we are out of this Union and rejoin the European Union, the better.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the impact of retained EU law on the Scottish devolution settlement.

Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 12th October 2022 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Okay. I understand that the shadow Minister has a personal issue that means she is unable to be here this morning, so I call the Minister.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your guidance, Ms McDonagh.

As has been kindly noted, until recently I was the policy sponsor for this Bill; I am honoured to be the responsible Minister and to see it through the whole way. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn for stepping in to sponsor the Bill, and I thank the other Committee members for their time and energy. Personally, it means a lot to me, and it will mean immense amounts to the millions of workers we will help by getting the Bill through Parliament. It will make a difference to them.

This is about fairness. The issue of protecting workers’ tips is not only close to my heart but incredibly important to so many. I am grateful that we have cross-party support, as indicated today and on Second Reading, to help to take the Bill forward.

[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister to his place. Will he outline the broad support that the Bill has received not only from individual trade unions but, importantly, from the TUC?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. It has been fantastic to engage with all those groups and I am immensely grateful to all those who have lobbied and pushed for this legislation. I will come to this point later in my speech, but the Government originally explored this issue in 2015, and the discussion goes back way longer than that. I am grateful to everyone who has been involved. I am not sure whether I am allowed to allude to myself as the hon. Member for Watford, but in his speech on Second Reading the hon. Member for Watford said that he felt very much that he was standing of the shoulders of giants, as I do, and we really are. This change has long been fought for and I am pleased that the Government listened to me when I was a Back Bencher. I am now very pleased to be the one listening and helping to make this change happen.

This change is happening because many people were appalled to hear the stories over the past few years of bosses wrongfully pocketing tips that were intended for workers. The money left by customers who wanted to recognise the hard work and excellent service of staff was taken by businesses; at times they took up to 10%, and we heard about the awful, nefarious practice of staff not receiving tips at all. The Bill will stop that practice. The Government believe that tips should go to the workers who earn them and that businesses that withhold tips from staff wrongfully benefit from money that is intended for hard-working staff.

Ultimately, the Bill will stop that conversation we have at the end of a meal or after having received good service—I think we have all said, “Are you definitely going to get this tip?” It is important that the Bill will end that conversation.

[Ian Levy (Blyth Valley) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill will encourage people who work in the hospitality industry to realise that they are actually going to get the tips for the service they give? In itself, that will encourage better service, because it will give people that feeling that they want to put more into the job.

[Dean Russell]

Absolutely. The Bill will give everyone certainty: in a time of particular uncertainty, especially as we face the cost of living crisis, people will know where they stand. Of course, it will take some time for the legislation fully to come into force, but organisations should put measures in place now rather than wait for the law to change. That is how it should have been anyway, but the Bill will make sure that businesses with bad practices deliver the right thing in the short term and onwards.

[Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con)]

I was pleased to be in the Chamber to support my hon. Friend when he was the promoter of this much-needed Bill, so it is great to see him in his place to take it even further. First, how will we ensure that the 2 million people we are trying to help with the Bill get the message? Will the Government run a public relations campaign to ensure that those people know their rights? Secondly, some unscrupulous employers will not treat people in the right way, so it is good to see in the Bill clauses to protect people who could be affected. Of course, some people end up in employment tribunals because they have been sacked or unfairly dismissed because they have complained about a process, so will the Minister, in his new position, also advocate for whistleblowers, to ensure that they too get the right protections in law?

[Dean Russell]

I know how important my hon. Friend’s campaigning on whistleblowing is for her and I appreciate her raising it. I will come to the tribunal process later in my speech. In terms of communications, it has been wonderful that, from the early stages of the Bill, the media have been very active in promoting it, and I know that the Government have been very much promoting it. This is also about transparency, which I will come to, in terms of not only ensuring that businesses are clear with their staff but making it clear to the public that members of staff will be keeping 100% of their tips. That is a key part of the Bill that it is so important to get across: 100% of their tips—everything that they are given—should be shared fairly with staff.

I will continue with my speech, so that we can come to a close. All the points that have been made show why the Government stand resolutely behind the Bill. We want to see it enacted, benefiting millions of workers in industries where tipping is common, such as hospitality, which is such a huge workplace for so many. My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn has set out how the clauses protect workers and why that is so important, and I am pleased to say that the Government support all the clauses. I will reiterate a few points on why they should stand part of the Bill.

The Bill will prevent employers from making any deductions when distributing tips, apart from those required or permitted by existing legislation, such as under tax law. That ensures that all money left by customers is passed to workers in full—I reiterate the words “in full” as often as I can. The Bill also establishes a requirement to allocate tips fairly—fairness is at the heart of the Bill—between workers at a place of business. That protects vulnerable workers and prevents exploitation.

A statutory code of practice will help to promote fair allocation of tips. The code will be developed with the help of key stakeholders and will be subject to a full consultation period before the final version is brought to both Houses for approval. On the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle made, that consultation is key, because it will help to raise awareness of what organisations and workers want but also make them aware that this is going to happen across all the sectors affected. It will ensure that the diverse views and practices of stakeholders are taken into account in preparing the code. To support enforcement of these new requirements and hold employers to account, the Bill will also require employers to have a written policy on tips and to maintain records relating to tips. These measures will be enforced by employment tribunals, with the tribunal empowered to revise allocations of tips and order compensation of workers.

The hon. Member for Glasgow East, who is not in his place, made some wonderful comments, and I reiterate my thanks to him for them. He asked why this legislation is not being brought forward as part of an employment Bill and is, instead, a private Member’s Bill. The Bill highlights a very important issue, and I am pleased to say that there is cross-party consensus that tips should be fairly attributed to workers. I know, because I felt it at the time, that it was disappointing that the Queen’s Speech did not include an employment Bill for the third Session of this Parliament, but we remain committed to bringing forward legislation to deliver on our commitments on employment rights, and I know that there are several other pieces of legislation coming through.

[Chris Stephens]

I am grateful to the Minister, who is, as always, generous in taking interventions. A number of Members have stepped in where the Government have not acted—a number of private Members’ Bills are being tabled that address issues of employment and workers’ rights. Will the Minister commit to look at those pieces of legislation and meet the hon. Members who have put them forward, so that we can tackle some of the issues and injustices that take place at work?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member for his comments. I am always happy to meet Members and discuss how they feel we can create better workplaces and support workers’ rights. I already have many meetings with colleagues to ensure that we are heading in the right direction on that.

With regard to the comments made by the hon. Member for Glasgow East, I want to be clear that more needs to be done to ensure that tips earned by workers go to them in full, which is why the Government are supporting the Bill. I am incredibly grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn for taking forward this legislation.

I also note the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury about his son, Liam. I know he is a proud father of Liam; he regularly talks about how proud he is of him. Liam is a credit to him, with the work he is doing while at university. The key point my hon. Friend made is that this is not about topping up salaries. That is an important point in the Bill, and it is important that we communicate it. This is a gratuity, tip or service charge that is a “thank you” on top of a salary. It should never be used by employers, and the Bill makes it clear that this is not about topping up salaries; it is about an additional piece and making sure that workers receive tips fairly and squarely.

I will now conclude, because we have covered a lot of ground and I am very pleased with the feedback from the Committee. The Bill provides vital protection for low-paid workers. Bringing forward these new rules will protect over 2 million workers from bad bosses and give them an avenue to seek remedies. It will be good for businesses too, as they will be confident that they are not being undercut by companies where bosses are keeping tips for themselves. The Bill is an excellent step. My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn has received support from both sides in the House and in Committee, and I want to thank everyone for the collaborative way we have all worked, for the way that the feedback has come in and for their support inside and outside the Chamber to make sure that workers are protected in this way. I look forward to following the Bill through its parliamentary stages.

[Virginia Crosbie]

This House is at its best when people work together, and the Committee has been a shining example of that co-operation and collaboration. I thank all hon. Members who have been on this short Committee. As a Welsh MP, I am delighted that there are two other Welsh MPs, both of whom are women, on the Committee. Tourism is a key sector in Wales, contributing around 12% of all employment.

I thank those who contributed to the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury talked about his son Liam, who has had a very positive experience in the hospitality sector. The hon. Member for Glasgow East talked about a level playing field, and I congratulate him on his private Member’s Bill on neonatal care. The hon. Member for Glasgow South West talked about the support of the unions, and Kate Nicholls, who heads up UK Hospitality, has been very helpful with the Bill. My hon. Friend the Member for Blyth Valley talked about fairness, and my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle talked about the importance of a PR campaign and whistleblowing.

This is an important Bill, which enshrines a right that seems evident to many consumers already, and I am sure hon. Members will agree that it is not right that business owners can keep part or all of the tips given in good faith to workers by customers who recognise the good service they have received.

Post Office Historical Shortfall Scheme: Late Applicants

Dean Russell Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Dean Russell)]

The Post Office Horizon IT scandal, which began over 20 years ago, has had a devastating impact on the lives of many postmasters. Starting in the late 1990s, the Post Office began installing Horizon accounting software, but faults in the software led to shortfalls in branches’ accounts. The Post Office demanded sub-postmasters cover the shortfalls, and in many cases wrongfully prosecuted them between 1999 and 2015 for false accounting or theft.

In May 2020, the Post Office launched the historical shortfall scheme, and applications were received over the following months of that year. The scheme was designed to compensate postmasters, without convictions, and outside of those who brought the group litigation order, for the financial shortfalls that they had to make up and the losses accrued as a result. The Government have supported the Post Office in wanting to put right these historical wrongs and are therefore providing financial support to ensure that those affected receive the compensation they deserve.



I am pleased to update the House on the positive progress that has been made to deliver compensation for those currently in the scheme. Since the Government’s last update to Parliament, a further 388 further postmasters have received a compensation offer. As of 30 September, in total 82%—1938—of eligible claimants have now received an offer, meaning that £52 million has now been offered. To date, 1,628 claimants have accepted their offers, and compensation payments totalling over £33 million have been made to them, helping to address the historical wrongs suffered by these claimants. It is the stated target of the Post Office to issue 95% of offers to existing claimants by the end of the calendar year. The Government’s ambition remains for the Post Office to have issued 100% of offers in this time.



In addition to those claimants who are currently part of the historical shortfall scheme, the Government are aware that there are individuals who, for a variety of reasons, were unable to apply for the scheme while it was open. Today, I can announce that the Government will extend their financial support to the Post Office so that it can accept eligible late applications into the historical shortfall scheme.

The Post Office will be writing out to all individuals who have contacted it about making a late application to the historical shortfall scheme to inform them of this.



The Government encourage any other individuals who may have been eligible to claim compensation under the historical shortfall scheme to contact the Post Office to discuss their position. Further details will be set out on the Post Office website.



These late claims will be managed through existing historical shortfall scheme processes, including an assessment by the independent advisory panel, to ensure claims are considered consistently with those already submitted.

[HCWS314]

Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 15th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I am incredibly pleased that we have time today to debate this important issue and Bill. I am the Member of Parliament for Watford, which has a thriving hospitality and service sector. That means that many of my constituents, and those from surrounding areas, work in roles where tips, gratuities and service charges are given to them—for the simplicity of my speech I will refer to those things as tips from now on, rather than give the full list.

For individuals who work in those roles, tips are an important part of receiving a thank you, and in many cases they are a token gesture from customers. Across Watford, not only do many people working in hospitality receive tips, but probably everyone—we are a very generous constituency—will have given a tip over the past few years. I was shocked when I found out, especially during the summer period after lockdown when we could reopen restaurants and were able to go back out and give tips, that hospitality workers could not necessarily guarantee that they could keep them. I think most people would be shocked to know that if they gave a tip through the business—via a credit card, say, as is increasingly more prominent and popular—there is no guarantee that the person or team they gave it to would receive it.

Of course, in most instances businesses are fair and kind and ensure that those tips get to the staff who were given them. Sadly, however, we know that there are always those who are unscrupulous and unfair and will choose to exploit their staff and keep the tips for themselves, sometimes in part, sometimes in full.

[Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on bringing forward this Bill. It is certainly one I support, and hopefully a final victory for the long-running fair tips campaign run by Unite the Union. As he says, however, we know that some employers can be extraordinarily devious in exploiting loopholes in employment law at the expense of either the public purse or workers. What consideration is he giving to future-proofing this Bill to make it really difficult for operators, including those using digital platforms such as Deliveroo, for example, to avoid the spirit of such important legislation?

[Dean Russell]

I thank the hon. Member—I would like to say friend—for her question. I will come to that later, but it sits within the code of practice and ensuring that at the heart of this Bill is a word she will hear me repeat many times: fairness. That is baked into the approach that will be taken. As I will say later, I am looking forward to meeting businesses, sector representatives and unions to chat about how we make that code of practice work well and ensure it is fair for everyone involved.

As hon. Members will know, over the past few months media reports have highlighted that the taking of tips, especially via credit cards, and businesses taking more than their fair share—indeed, taking a share of something they should not even be getting—is increasing. One of the reasons that concerns me, and why this Bill is so important not just in principle but right now and should be enacted as soon as possible, is that we are seeing a rise in the cost of living.

People who work in hospitality should not need to rely on tips as part of their salary. I am absolutely clear in the Bill that it is not about topping up salaries; it is about a gratuity, tip or service charge in addition. However, employees should be able to keep them. That should be at the heart of what we do, and that is what this Bill will do. That is why I say that fairness is key, because we all have a sense of fairness. We know what is right and wrong, and we know that if we give somebody some money to say thank you, they should be able to keep that money or choose to share it with others. That is key. A great deal of work has been done over the past few weeks to try to get this proposed legislation right, and I hope that people will see that in the Bill and that the code of practice will cover that.

[Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing this important and overdue Bill to the House. We are all thinking of the people in hospitality who will benefit from it. I have been contacted by constituents who have had up to 15% of tips removed from their pay packet. Obviously, this Bill will address that. However, this measure will also matter to members of the public too. How many of us ask when we go to pay our bill, “Will the tips go directly to the person who has given us such great service tonight?” yet do not know whether the answer we get will be correct? This Bill will ensure that we have that security and that people paying their bill can trust that that tip will go to the person who has given them that service. I hope that my hon. Friend will have every success with this Bill, and that it will be backed up with a media campaign to let people know that their tips will go to the person who actually deserves them.

[Dean Russell]

My hon. Friend makes a brilliant point. I thank her so much for her endorsement and support, and for representing her constituents. I have heard the same stories from so many Members. In fact, a lot of Members—I will not name them—tell me that they worked in hospitality when they were students, and have experienced this issue; it really cuts through. On my hon. Friend’s point about a media campaign, I invite colleagues from across the House to help me promote this legislation as widely as possible. I hope that in a year’s time—hopefully sooner, but it might be a bit later—we get to the day when a customer never again has to ask, “Will you definitely be able to keep this tip?” That is one of the ambitions of the Bill.

The Bill is not about bashing business. Most businesses comprise good people, good entrepreneurs and good CEOs, and most pass on tips fairly. The businesses that I have spoken to—especially in my constituency and through fantastic Members of Parliament across the House—support the legislation, and hospitality businesses definitely do so.

Let me turn to fairness for workers, which is covered in several aspects of the Bill.

[Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on bringing this excellent Bill to the House. Fairness is the key word. He has mentioned that he is working with businesses and trade unions. I am a Labour and Co-operative party MP. May I ask whether he has reached out to the Co-operative party? Many businesses are co-operatives, and I am sure the Co-operative party would be grateful if he reached out to it.

[Dean Russell]

The hon. Member makes a brilliant point. The idea of the code of practice is to ensure that we do that engagement, and I am hopeful that when we reach out to such organisations, they will help with the media campaign. We need to ensure that everybody knows about the legislation and to highlight that there are businesses that do not pass on tips. In the meantime, I hope that people challenge businesses on that when they speak to them.

The Bill will provide greater transparency for employers and workers in teams regarding how tips should be treated; that will be clear to everyone. It will create a level playing field for the majority of businesses that already pass on tips to workers fairly and transparently, ensuring that they know that other businesses will do the same as they have always done. As we have already mentioned, through the Bill consumers will have the confidence that the full value of their tips will go to workers, and the premise of the Bill is that 100% of tips will go to the workers. The code of practice will agree how that will be shared, and we can turn to that point later.

[Jill Mortimer (Hartlepool) (Con)]

May I speak on behalf of all the backroom staff in hospitality venues? As a teenager, my son worked for many years as a pot washer for very little money, but he always felt really appreciated when he got the little top-up that was his share of the tips. We should remember all those people and how important it is to them to know that they are valued.

[Dean Russell]

Absolutely. I thank my hon. Friend for her contribution. May I also mention the fabulous staff in this place? I know that on occasion, some very kind Members of Parliament do give tips, even though it might not be reported.

I have covered some points around fairness for workers, but I will go into a little more detail. The Bill will create a legal obligation for employers that receive tips directly from customers, or that have control or significant influence over the distribution of tips that workers receive directly, to distribute tips to workers fairly and transparently. The obligation will be attached to the total amount of the qualifying tips paid at, or otherwise attributable to, an employer’s place of business, and the tips must be allocated fairly between workers at that place of business. For example, in the case of a big chain, the tip will go into a pot to be distributed to everyone who works not in the chain, but at that particular venue.

Importantly, the situation will remain the same in cases where employers do not receive, or have control or significant influence over, tips. For example, the Bill will not cover me giving a tenner directly to a waiter or waitress at the end of a meal, as it is clear that it is for them. However, the Bill would come into force if they put the money through the business, perhaps via a credit card payment. Similarly, the Bill will not cover situations where employees already have their own tip jar that they look after, because those tips will not be touched by the business.

Fairness is key to ensuring that businesses and employees know exactly where they stand, but we also need to ensure that there is some flexibility. Every business is different—that is the nature of it. Someone working in hairdressing is going to have a different approach to the way they receive or manage tips from someone who works in a restaurant, bar or hotel. What we are trying to do with the code of conduct is to make sure that that is covered, and I hope that is going to come after this Bill today—

[Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con)]

I am sorry to interrupt my hon. Friend in mid flow. As someone who has had many an argument with restaurant managers about removing service charges in London, in order to be able to give cash directly to staff, and nearly been thrown out of restaurants for it, may I put on record my congratulations to him on bringing this Bill to the House today? Let me also add my thanks on behalf of all the hospitality industry workers in my constituency and across the wider Cumbrian area who will benefit from this.

[Dean Russell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that. He stands up so strongly for workers and for the rights of people across this whole country, but particularly in his constituency. I am very conscious that there is a thing called the tronc system, although I will not go into too much detail on it now because of the time available. Tronc is an arrangement commonly used in the hospitality sector, where an employer delegates the collection, allocation and distribution of tips to a person or persons known as a “troncmaster” or tronc operator. The Bill does not seek to regulate the operators of independent tronc systems, which are commonly used by many businesses already. However, I raised this matter when I was talking through how to make this Bill the best it can be and I found that some stakeholders have been concerned about whether a business could then put pressure on a troncmaster to do something that is unfair. So, to mitigate that risk, under this Bill workers can bring an employment tribunal claim if an employer’s use of an independent tronc is not fair. I hope that that will capture any concerns on that front.

As we have just discussed briefly, another aspect of fairness is ensuring that there are no deductions from tips. So at the core of the Bill is the creation of a legal obligation for employers to distribute all tips, gratuities and service charges to workers, without any deductions. When customers pay service charges, they expect that money to go in full to the staff and to the individuals they have asked it to go to. Sadly, some employers retain part or the whole service charge without passing it on to their workers, so this Bill will deal with that. Some hon. Members have asked me whether this legislation will also cover credit card deductions and administrative costs, and some businesses have raised that issue with me too. Since 2018, payment processing fees cannot be passed on to consumers. In line with that, employers will not be able to deduct payment processing fees from tips––that also includes mandatory and discretionary service charges which are added automatically on to customers’ bills by some hospitality venues. My hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mark Jenkinson) will be relieved that that will no longer be the case, as he has probably had arguments on that front in the past. Administering tips should not impose significantly on a business’s operating costs, but that credit card admin charge might be significant for an individual. Two or three payments can be significant for an individual when we are talking about tips. So, again, this is about fairness; businesses do not incur a significant cost in respect of this money from tips, but if it were taken off the staff, it would be significant for them. It is important to include that provision in the Bill and to put what I have just set out on the record.

Ensuring that tips are passed on to workers in full, with no deductions by employers, will make a real difference to workers’ lives, while not creating a burden on businesses. As I noted earlier, an important practical aspect of the Bill will be the code of practice, which I will expand upon now for a few moments. The Bill includes provisions for the Secretary of State to issue a statutory code of practice, which will promote fairness and transparency in relation to the distribution of qualifying tips, and help tribunals determine whether it is fair for an employer to make certain tronc arrangements. Employment tribunals must have regard to relevant provisions of the code when determining whether an allocation of tips or making of certain tronc arrangements is fair. The code will consider some of the factors that may be relevant to fairness and will provide a number of examples and real-life scenarios that exemplify fair tipping practices, to help reflect the myriad circumstances in which employers can handle tips in an acceptable fashion. The hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) mentioned engagement, so let me say that the code will be published in draft and consulted on before the relevant sections of this legislation come into force. The code will also require approval from both Houses of Parliament. I hope that that reassures colleagues across the House that there will be scrutiny and that we will ensure that it is covered fully. The defining principles of the Bill will need to capture the nuances of fairness. As I have mentioned, I want to engage widely to ensure that the code of practice really works. I welcome anyone reaching out to me after Second Reading. If the Government and the Minister support the Bill going through to the next stage, and the House joins us in that approach, I will be really keen to engage and hear hon. Members’ points.

One of the core issues is remedies and enforcement. Crucially, the Bill will be enforced by workers through the employment tribunal system and will provide employment tribunals with remedies where an employer has made deductions from tips or has not allocated tips in a fair and transparent way. If an employer does not allocate tips fairly among workers, the employment tribunal can make an order that does one of three things: require the employer to revise any allocation of tips that they have made, recommend that the employer deals with tips in a certain way, or require the employer to make a payment to one or more workers so that they receive the tips that they should have received.

The employment tribunal may additionally compensate workers by up to £5,000 for related financial loss attributable to a breach of the provisions. Workers will also be able to make a complaint to an employment tribunal if their employer does not keep sufficient records relating to tipping practices; the tribunal can order the employer to compensate workers by up to £5,000. It is worth noting that workers must consult ACAS before bringing forward a claim. The majority of employment disputes are settled before they reach an employment tribunal.

I would like it to be absolutely clear that nothing in the Bill will make changes to taxation for employers or employees. It is purely about employees’ rights and workers’ rights.

I will conclude my remarks because I want to hear the fantastic speeches that are no doubt coming up. I thank the Minister and her predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), for their incredible support with the Bill; I hope that I can convince colleagues to get it over the line today. I thank everyone who has helped me to introduce it to the House: hon. Members past and present, constituents and my fabulous Watford businesses and residents, who have repeatedly raised the importance of the issue. As we are all aware, the private Members’ Bill process is fragile, so I am keen to work with all hon. Members, all organisations and everyone I can to make sure that the Bill works. I urge the Minister to support it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We have all learned a new word today: “tronc”, which I will try in Wordle later.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dean Russell]

With the leave of the House, I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington (Felicity Buchan), an intervention from the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees), and from my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti)—I did not realise I was one of the great west midlands exports, but that is wonderful to know. We also heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Broxtowe (Darren Henry) and for Hartlepool (Jill Mortimer)—I will endeavour to attend the Riviera as soon as I can.

I particularly liked the speech from my hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar). In his previous role, in which he was always fantastic, I would normally be lobbying him about my hospital, so it is wonderful to hear him talking about hospitality instead—slightly different. We also heard from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), and the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens). I give my heartfelt thanks to the Minister, at the end of her incredibly successful first week in the role, for signalling the Government’s support for the Bill. To know that we will hopefully change the lives of many millions of people across the UK is incredible.

I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House agree that this is an important piece of legislation to ensure fairness and transparency for workers and employers. I am hugely grateful to everyone who has campaigned and fought for tips to be fairly given to workers for such a long time; it is wonderful to know that I am standing on the shoulders of giants. The Bill represents a great opportunity to tackle the rising cost of living, to increase consumer confidence and to help ensure that hard-working individuals get the money they have been given and deserve. I hope this Bill will go through the House with full support, and when giving a tip as a thank you at the end of meal I look forward to not having to say, “Will you get all of this?” Hopefully that day will come in the next few months. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63).

Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill

Dean Russell Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 15th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on his Bill. I will not attempt to say the name of his constituency, but I would love to visit one day.

I will not speak for too long, but I will address some of the points that have been raised. First, I endorse this Bill and will do all I can to support its passage. This is such an important issue. We heard earlier about personal experience, and the personal experiences of my friends who have had to use neonatal care, including my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) and the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden), really touch one’s heart. Those precious moments, from our child’s first seconds, are embedded in our souls, our minds and our memories.

Thankfully, my daughter did not need neonatal care, but those moments—the nine months leading up to her birth, and the seconds after she was born—are seared into me. They create tears, memories and hopes for the future. I cannot imagine what it must be like, in those first few weeks, for a parent to be stuck at work when they want to be with their child at their most precious, most vulnerable and most fragile. All a parent would want is just to be there to support them and, even if they cannot hug them, to know that they are close enough to do so.

For me, this Bill is much more than just legislation. It is about doing the right thing and it is about compassion. I came into politics because I believe in people and because I believe in a compassionate society. We sometimes disagree in this House on how we get there, but this is one issue on which we can come together.

My daughter was born in my constituency at Watford General Hospital, which has a neonatal unit, and during the pandemic I did voluntary work in the maternity unit’s filing area. I had not realised how much work the staff do behind the scenes before a child is born, and in the following weeks, to make sure they are safe. The neonatal period is intense. There is so much happening, and so many moments that require a rapid reaction. Again, I cannot imagine how difficult it must be for a parent to be away from their baby as they wait, listen and hang on for a phone call or message to find out if everything is going to be okay.

I absolutely endorse this Bill, and I wish the hon. Member the best of luck today. The Minister is doing a fantastic job in her first week, and I urge her to support the Bill’s passage to leave a legacy. Generations to come will talk about this day for many years.

Night-time Economy: Hertfordshire

Dean Russell Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I will call Dean Russell to move the motion, and then I will call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for Mr Russell to wind up, so he and the Minister get one go each. The debate is due to finish at 4.30, and I am advised that there may be five Divisions called then, so the Minister may want to ensure that she concludes her remarks before then.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Pryzm nightclub and the night-time economy in Hertfordshire.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone, and I am delighted to bring this debate to Westminster. The situation in Watford is worrying. Our high street, like everywhere over the pandemic, has been hit by challenging times, and Watford has one of the best high streets in the country. We have an incredible wealth of brilliant stores, organisations and small businesses that we need to continue to support. What I have found over the past few years, especially during my time as the Member of Parliament for Watford, is how much our community comes together, works together and supports each other, and that includes supporting our small businesses as we move forward.

We have a challenge: one of our most popular night-time destinations, Pryzm nightclub, is under threat. The situation at the moment is that there is a planning application in place to turn the nightclub and surrounding businesses into homes. I am not against new homes—it is important that we have them. I am not too keen on very tall towers, which is a totally different debate that I am sure we could have another time. The nightclub would close not because people are not going through the doors. It would close merely because a landlord wants to change it into something else—something that is not part of the night-time economy. The reason why that is a challenge is that the night-time economy, as we all know, is not just one place. It is not one nightclub; it is a whole ecosystem. It is an incredible ecosystem that includes local restaurants, bars, food outlets, takeaway places and our brilliant taxi trade, which all rely on the thousands of people who come to Watford every weekend to go to the nightclub.

Closing the nightclub would pull the rug from under those businesses and hard-working people who have struggled to get through covid over the past few years and have come through the other side. They survived it and are on the verge of thriving, but that would be cut off. My request to the Minister today, and I have a few points I would like to raise with her, is about how we can support the night-time economy in general. I appreciate that these are national debates, but Pryzm is a good example of the challenges we face as a community and as a Government who support small business. Losing places like nightclubs that allow the night-time economy to thrive would risk setting off a domino effect of closures and high streets not surviving, which will also impact tourism, trade and opportunity.

I would like to thank a few people. First, I thank Maria Manion, the chief executive of Watford business improvement district, or the BID, as it is often known. It has done incredible work looking at the impact of the closure and what it would mean locally, but it also does incredible work to support local businesses. I thank Dave Vickery, the manager at Pryzm Watford. I have been down there a few times—I can confirm I did not dance or drink. Dave is absolutely passionate, and I could tell the care his staff have for the people who go to the nightclub. They ensure that people have a safe and enjoyable evening out and that when they go back out on the street at the end of the night, they continue to have a safe journey home and a safe environment to go to the other businesses locally.

I have heard from Dave that places like nightclubs are communities. They are places where people go to see their friends at the end of each week, to start to relax and to use it as a release each week—one thing I am passionate about is people helping their own mental wellbeing. When we lose that, it has a damaging effect on not just the economy, but people.

Anyone watching the debate, especially from Hertfordshire —I am sure millions will be tuning in to this Westminster Hall debate—will know that Pryzm nightclub has also been known as Oceana, Destiny, Paradise Lost, Bailey’s and many other names. It has been on the parade for nearly 40 years, so it has not just popped up; it is part of the legacy there. I hope that I am not breaching their confidence, but there are people working in Parliament who met their partners there. The club has a legacy of people forging relationships and friendships there over many years, and it presents an opportunity for people to come together, celebrate and release after a hard week at work.

People might not be aware, but Pryzm does incredible work for local charities, including Watford Mencap, which I visited recently. The Mencap team takes 70 people—or clients, as they call them—to Pryzm for a safe night out on the last Friday of every month. There, they can have a drink in a safe environment and see friends whom they would not usually see. If Pryzm closes, nothing else they could do would come close to providing similar enjoyment in a safe community space.

I will raise with the Minister the impact on jobs and the night-time economy. Pryzm, has about 110 employees, and an average of 3,000 visitors over Friday and Saturday. On big event nights, including performances by big DJs, there can be many thousands more visitors, and Pryzm welcomes about 500 people on Mondays. That is absolutely critical, because each person will spend not just at Pryzm, but in the local area. I am particularly concerned for taxi firms, which had a really difficult time during lockdown. They struggled for every single fare, sometimes waiting hours for the next pick-up, before re-joining the back of the queue. Stopping their ability to earn from the night-time economy is a real travesty. The average spend at Pryzm is about £20 per person, but that equates to about £34 for our local economy.

Let me be clear: this is not just about Watford—I would not be so selfish as to focus only on Watford. If we lose nightclubs and the night-time economy in towns across the UK, we lose not just the economic benefit but part of our culture. Pubs are absolutely critical to what we think when we think of Britain—I do not think there is a single soap on TV that does not feature a pub. Most towns—not soaps—have a nightclub as well, or used to. People used to have a space—or perhaps a disco, for my generation—where they could go, but those spaces are dying out. That is a real challenge. I will not go into “Saturday Night Fever” mode and start dancing, but those places existed for so long for a reason: they drive so much opportunity for people, who can forge relationships there, as I said earlier.

I am also passionate about the creative arts. So many people get their first start at nightclubs and in night-time bars where music can be performed. It is incredible how many bands start by doing gigs in small towns, building their following until they can, potentially, tour around the world. Everyone wants that first step on the ladder. For creative people, having a home-town audience, or one in the surrounding area, to listen to, support and fund them can make a massive difference. Losing nightclubs would have massive effect on the future of the night-time economy. On the music industry, it is estimated that there were almost 1 million music tourists in the south-east prior to covid, supporting 5,300 jobs in the south-east alone. That is a huge number, and it goes to the heart of my concerns.

I will wind up with a few questions for the Minister because I am conscious that there will shortly be votes in the House. First, is there anything that I can do to encourage the council? I totally understand that it has to follow specific processes to agree or refuse planning applications—I am not trying to force them through—but how could I help before it reaches the point of refusing a planning application? Could I speak to businesses? Are there any support packages that could be used to help them and encourage them not to close this vital part of our community?

The Minister is new to her post, and she is doing an incredible job so far. I look forward to seeing her in post for a long time. I would like to ask what the Government are doing to support the night-time economy so that we can build on that. I think there are three questions. What can I do? What is being done? How are the Government supporting the night-time economy of the future, creative industries and, most importantly, small businesses?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Jane Hunt)]

It is a pleasure to stand before you for my first Westminster Hall debate, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Dean Russell) on securing this important debate. Clearly, this is an important issue for him and his constituents. I ought to say that my hon. Friend does an excellent job for Watford. None of his colleagues could ever say they do not know anything about Watford, because he is constantly going on about Watford. Good for him. It is much appreciated, I am sure.

I recognise that this is a local, commercial planning matter. Providing new homes to ease pressure on the housing market is obviously important. It is also important to preserve commercial areas, which are fundamental to the health of local economies and communities. Hospitality, alongside retail, personal care and leisure, is part of an ecosystem, as my hon. Friend said, that underpins healthy local economies and communities. This ecosystem includes a symbiotic relationship between businesses operating during the day and evening, and businesses operating into the night. I have talked to the Department about the day-time, night-time and twilight economies and the connection between them. I am sure that is where much of that £34 is being spent before people go on into the nightclub.

If the night-time economy fails, it has a detrimental impact on the ecosystem as a whole. As well as providing accessible jobs and stimulating local supply chains, hospitality businesses support tourism, help to attract inward investment, generate income for local authorities to invest in services and infrastructure, connect communities and support mental health, just as my hon. Friend said. All that helps to improve living standards and creates desirable places for people to visit, study, live and work.

While increasing the number of residents living in our town and city centres is a good thing for local economies, businesses and residents need to be able to co-exist. However, we know from experience that residential areas and night-time economy businesses do not necessarily co-exist well. We have seen many cases of long-standing businesses being forced to close under the weight of complaints about noise from new residents. To ensure a healthy business environment that will deliver for local economies and communities, this ecosystem needs to be managed, and it needs to support and complement wider plans for economic development, regeneration and levelling up.

It is important to talk about levelling up. People think about levelling up as being for places other than the south-east. In fact, it is just as applicable to Watford as it is to Loughborough or any other town in the country. Levelling up for most parts of the country will involve improving productivity and economic growth by encouraging innovation, creating good jobs, enhancing educational attainment, and renovating the social and cultural fabric of the parts of the UK that are falling behind. Investing in education, digital connectivity, housing and transport to attract new business investment, as well as attracting and retaining talent, is a key part of levelling up. Increasing the number of overseas tourists visiting the UK and achieving a better distribution of tourism across the UK is also an important part of levelling up. 

In 2019, 40.9 million overseas residents visited the UK, spending around £28.4 billion. Of those staying at least one night, 21.7 million visited London, while 2.2 million visited Edinburgh, 1.6 million visited Manchester and 1.1 million visited Birmingham. As my hon. Friend said, this is about Watford specifically, but it is also about the night-time economy across the whole country.

Creating the right environment for high street businesses to flourish is vital to creating destinations that will appeal to entrepreneurs, students and tourists alike. Research by Centre for Cities on healthy local ecosystems for students and graduates highlights the importance of attracting new students to bolster local economies, as they tend to spend their money where they study. A place’s ability to attract students from other parts of the country will therefore affect the strength of its economy, and the night-time economy would definitely attract the student population. Moreover, as the UK continues to specialise in more highly skilled, knowledge-intensive activities, the extent to which cities can attract and retain skilled graduates will have a big impact on their economic performance.

As constituency MPs, we know that hospitality and nightclubs are important, and clearly that is why my hon. Friend brought this matter to the House. Nationally, hospitality employs 2.4 million people, and there are 167,000 hospitality businesses, creating £83 billion in revenue in 2021.

[Dean Russell]

Given that I am debating my private Member’s Bill on tips on Friday—I just want to give it a plug—I want to point out the importance of the hospitality sector. It is important that staff can keep the tips that are given to them, and I hope the Minister agrees with me on Friday when she is at the Dispatch Box.

[Jane Hunt]

I welcome the introduction of my hon. Friend’s private Member’s Bill. Ensuring that tips go to workers is the right thing to do. It is a policy that my Department has worked hard on, and I look forward to responding to him on Friday.

We are working to make permanent many of the regulatory easements that we introduced during the pandemic, which not only provided hospitality businesses with greater flexibility to trade but helped to create the vibrant, bustling outdoor spaces we need to encourage people back into our town and city centres. In July 2021, we published the first ever hospitality strategy, which set out our ambition for the recovery and future resilience of the sector, and we have established a Hospitality Sector Council to oversee its delivery. We did all that because we recognise the importance of hospitality not just nationally but locally. If we are to maximise the potential of hospitality to support our local economies and communities, stimulate inward investment and tourism, and help levelling up across the country, we need to cultivate and nurture our local high street ecosystems. We have talked about those things.

As I say, the planning mechanisms are the way forward, and unfortunately they are not with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy but with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. However, I understand that DLUHC is bringing forward planning matters that could be dealt with through the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, which might include an auction after a year if a building remains empty. I am not sure whether that would happen in this case, but it is still worth bearing in mind for colleagues across the country.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate and giving us an opportunity to discuss this issue in Parliament. Although this is very much a local planning issue, it raises important questions about how we manage the transition of our high streets from being fundamentally retail centres to being more experiential spaces where we meet the needs of local residents and attract new footfall. I believe that, in this case, that can best be achieved by local authorities working closely together with local delivery partners—clearly, that has happened with the bid—interested groups, businesses and landlords. I thank my hon. Friend very much indeed for bringing this matter forward.

Fairness at Work and Power in Communities

Dean Russell Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

Last year, I introduced the Tips Bill, which would be an important solution, supporting hospitality workers with the cost of living: it would ensure that employers could not keep tips given to staff, waiters and hospitality workers. May I have an assurance from the Minister that he will continue to support me in ensuring that the Bill goes through Parliament?

[Paul Scully]

My hon. Friend has done amazing work in raising the profile of ensuring that there is a fair system for tipping and that the tronc actually goes to those at the front end, who are often on low wages. As I have said, the primary purpose of our employment measures is to protect those who are at the lowest end especially. I reaffirm our commitment to building on my hon. Friend’s continuing work in that area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

If I may, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will pause for a moment; I hope Members will join me.

That was just five seconds, but imagine if that had been an hour, a week or a month in which we had no one to speak to and no one to listen to us. Loneliness is one of the worst parts of the injustice in our society, and we have an opportunity, as a nation and as parliamentarians, to tackle it.

Although the first year of the pandemic was such an awful time, a lot of light was brought out during that darkness. I was fortunate to go out to campaign and work with local charities, including One Vision, of which I am now a trustee, Small Acts of Kindness, the Salvation Army and many others. In the first year, I found myself in a rather bizarre situation in that I delivered more bags of shopping to vulnerable people than I did political leaflets. That was so important, because it was not just about taking food to people; when we were knocking on people’s doors, there was a sense that they knew that somebody cared. For me, that was about feeding their soul and their spiritual needs as much as it was about feeding their stomachs—I know, because I certainly have one to feed.

During that time, I saw communities getting on and supporting one another, helping their neighbours, and looking up from their phones and seeing the doors that they had perhaps not seen neighbours behind for a long time. People’s action to help and support one another was so important. It was about the community acting not just on behalf of national or local government, but on its own behalf. There is a huge role for that. I was pleased, therefore, that trying to cut more red tape was part of the Queen’s Speech so that there is more levelling up at a local level and communities have more say in what they want to do and where they work.

Mental health was a big aspect of that. I was pleased that mental health first aid in the workplace was raised in the opening speeches today; I introduced a ten-minute rule Bill on that a year or two ago. I have continued to lobby and to work on that with Government to ensure that people in the workplace can speak to somebody—just as they would ask for first aid if they cut their thumb—and be signposted to the right guidance and correct information to tell them how to support themselves if they have mental wellbeing or even mental health issues.

That is so important because, in the post-pandemic world, we need to start having a holistic view of a person, and that includes their mental and physical health. We need to ensure that there is justice and fairness in the workplace. That is why have I been pushing my Tips Bill since last year. It would make sure that people who work in hospitality—they make up a big part of my Watford constituency—could fairly access the tips that they are given by people who want to thank them, and that businesses were not allowed to take that money from them. I will continue to push that, and I intend to move forward with another such Bill again this year, post Queen’s Speech.

I have seen the important role of creative services in the hospitality sector. Often, bars and restaurants are part of theatres, and in Watford, we have a fabulous theatre called the Pump House, which is celebrating its 50th year. I have seen the creativity there; it is a place where young people are given hope and the opportunity to unleash their skills, and to level up—because levelling up is not just about planning and building; it is about people’s future and opportunities. I think about when I was growing up. As a kid, I never thought that I would visit London. I definitely never thought that I would visit Parliament and that I would one day be an MP. I want to reach out to kids like me and say, “You know what? Wherever you live in the country, there is an opportunity for you to level up, to unleash your potential and to inspire others in your community.”

There is also the built environment. In Watford, we have lots of debates about planning and how we make sure that we do not have overdevelopment. Tall buildings are one of my concerns, and I have been pushing that with Government. Local people should have a say in what happens in their community and on their streets, and especially about the height of buildings. I was pleased that the Queen’s Speech seemed to indicate that people will have more say on a street level, and perhaps even street votes, so that they can say, “This is what I want in my area and to happen on my street.” Building beautifully is very much part of the answer.

This Queen’s Speech is also about tackling really serious issues. I am pleased that the Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes), who is responsible for homelessness, is on the Front Bench because, through our work with him, we in Watford have managed to get rough sleeping pretty much down to zero during the past two years. We will always need to continue to work on that, and to make sure that people are being supported. However, we do not just want to get people off the streets; we want to give them opportunities and ensure that they are not just surviving, but thriving as they look to the future. The Queen’s Speech offers an opportunity to do that.

As well as thinking about the built environment for the next generation, we should also think about the virtual environment. Last year, as a member of the Joint Committee on the Draft Online Safety Bill, I was much involved in the cross-party work done across both Houses to scrutinise the Bill and come up with suggestions. The Government took on board 66 suggestions from our report, and I look forward to the Bill passing through Parliament, because when we think about mental health, exercise or how people work together as a community, we need to look at the way the world is going; things are being done much more virtually and technologically. Kids are not like I was 30 or 40 years ago; they see the world in a totally different way. They see not just the community on their road, but the whole global community. We need to ensure that people who want to do them harm are prevented from doing so, but still need to enable innovation and opportunity.

There are great opportunities and great things coming forward, but I urge the Government to push forward with my Tips Bill, because it is a great opportunity to tackle the cost of living and help people on low incomes to get the money that they have been given and deserve; to ensure that we push forward with mental health first aid and awareness in the workplace, and that people at work are supported and signposted to the right guidance; and to ensure that when we look at society, we look at the entirety of communities, not only in the built environment and in our neighbourhoods but online, so that people are safe, and so that this Government can support them in aspiring to be the best they can be. I support this Queen’s Speech.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

I will concentrate my remarks on fairness at work. I am more than happy to declare my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests: I am a proud member, and indeed the chair, of the Unite parliamentary group and a proud associate member of many trade union groups.

I believe that working conditions and fairness at work are a reflection of the power balance in society.

I recall that, just before Prorogation, the Chancellor reacted angrily to questions about his own family’s finances, but at kitchen tables in my constituency in the north-east of England they are not talking about offshore trusts and bank accounts in the Cayman islands. The talk among families at kitchen tables in east Durham is about increasing fuel prices, the cost of living, higher prices for food and other staple items, and having to pay more tax. There does not seem to be much discussion about hiding assets in offshore tax accounts.

Of course, the Government could help, but they choose not to. Politics, and party politics in particular, is about choices. I was quite impressed by the Government’s pledge, in response to the Gracious Speech, to make the United Kingdom the best possible place in which to live and work, but the facts belie that. We have had over 12 years of Conservative government. Many Conservative Members refer back to the last Labour Government, but I think it reasonable to assume that if the Conservatives had any intention of actually improving the quality of life, particularly for working people, there were ample opportunities to achieve that over a period of 12 years.

I was incredibly disappointed that, despite numerous assurances given to me and to my good friend the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens), my hon. Friend—and good friend—the Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) and my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) that an employment Bill would be included in the Queen’s Speech, that has not happened. There are 38 Bills, but sadly there is nothing for workers.

I think that fairness at work means being paid enough to be able to participate in the economy, and to buy your own food rather than being dependent on food banks. When my parents were small—my mother is celebrating her 86th birthday today, and I wish her a happy birthday—there were soup kitchens. Those have now been replaced by food banks. I do not think that food banks are a sign of economic success; I think that they are a sign of economic failure. Sadly, they also confirm that work does not always pay. There are many people in insecure, low-paid work who, sadly, are having to rely on food banks in order to put food on the table and feed their families.

I think that job security means being able to turn on the heating without being worried about whether you can afford the bill, or being able to give your child access to decent clothing, housing or even the internet. These are not luxuries; they are the basic essentials of a functioning modern economy in the 21st century. As a trade unionist, I believe that good businesses—and there are many examples of good businesses—should be standing side by side with their employees, as budget pressures and higher inflation are likely to lead to more industrial disputes and higher pay demands. People who are in work will obviously try to secure better pay rises.

There have been opportunities for the Government to act. On many occasions the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), who opened the debate, has condemned the bully-boy tactics of fire and rehire and unscrupulous employers. But then, incredibly, he himself talked out the private Member’s Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North, who is no longer in the Chamber. I am delighted to learn that Lord Woodley has been successful in the private Members’ Bill ballot in the other place, so there will be another opportunity to raise this issue.

We have had strong words from the Government, but sadly no action. We have witnessed the disgrace of P&O Ferries sacking British workers, breaking our laws and hiring private security firms to manhandle seafarers off the ships. The Queen’s Speech delivers the harbours (seafarers remuneration) Bill, but one thing it has been able to do is to unite the unions, the ports and the employers in criticising this plan as ineffective and unworkable. When the Transport Secretary said that he would “stop at nothing” in order to take P&O Ferries to task for its blatant disregard of UK employment legislation, I do not think any of us actually expected him to do nothing. We thought he would do something. This shows that the rich and powerful can break the law with impunity, whether it is the senior management of P&O or the Prime Minister, because it seems to many people that the system is built to protect the powerful and ignore their wrongdoing. Meanwhile, many working families in communities such as mine in Easington are struggling.

Police officers’ retirement plans are in tatters because of Government pension changes, and prison officers are leaving their jobs every day because of the terrible pay and the awful and reducing terms and conditions. The hon. Member for Watford (Dean Russell) expressed regret about the Government’s failure to support his Tips Bill. I also want to express regret that the Government did not support my Bill on prison violence, which aimed to place a duty on the Prison Service and the probation service, including private operators, to minimise violence in the workplace.

[Dean Russell]

I would just like to clarify that the Government and the Minister have actually has been incredibly supportive of my Tips Bill, and I know that work is continuing to ensure that it comes through, but I appreciate the nod and the mention from the hon. Gentleman, and I appreciate his support.

[Grahame Morris]

The hon. Member is very kind, and I appreciate the tip. I was under the impression that Ministers supported my Bill, because they were nodding as well, but unfortunately that was not the case. Anyway, I wish him every success.

I was talking about the way the Government have treated prison officers. They ignored the pay review board, they expect prison officers to work until they are 68 and they ignore the issue of workplace safety. In fact, they seem to be normalising workplace violence. So many prison officers are leaving the service that the Ministry of Justice itself has estimated that almost 87,000 cumulative years of prison officer experience have been lost since 2010. That loss of knowledge and experience is a problem that is replicated across many aspects of the public service. It is making workplaces less efficient and more insecure, and if we need proof, we need only to ask any constituent who has reported a crime, applied for a passport, sought to review a driving licence, reported antisocial behaviour to the council or is in urgent need of an ambulance. There are many examples of the Government’s mismanagement, lack of investment and simple lack of care for many of our communities. Under the Conservatives, the poorest are expected to work harder and longer and to receive less. This is a Government who seem to reward bad businesses such as P&O Ferries, and those who cheat, deceive and refuse to pay their taxes are rewarded.